₦airaland Forum

babaearly:
@ Joagbaje

Have you wondered that apart from the Orchestration, it would be foolish or sinful to fail to "fall" because in that scenery, atmosphere, and you are in front of the centre of attraction, the pastor, you would be tempted to do hero worship.

what of the people that fall very far from the pastor. do they also not want to look foolish. caranally minded lot.

@ aletheia

concerning your earlier post

Let me make an attempt to correct some of the jargons you put up there as truth.

Your problem is indeed a religious one…,

Now this may rattle your theology but you see, we don’t take after the Jesus that lived prior to his death (the accounts where only written to prove he was the messiah) we take after the resurrected Jesus. That’s why when people say they’re doing the sign of the cross, I always ask what happened at the cross? (Now I have nothing against the cross) but Jesus died there. He was buried. He rose again and he ascended; now he sits at the right hand of God not the right hand side which means he is at the place of power- the throne. It’s like saying he’s God’s right hand man (the man who holds the weapon). So why isn’t there a sign of the throne?

The bible says he was delivered for our offences and raised for our justification Rom 4:25. meaning he died for us, and was raised to ensure that we got what he died for. Salvation doesn’t mean we were drowning and he rescued us, rather it means he took our place in the river of sin. He died in our place.

So what did he die for? What did he come for?

In his own words he said…”I’m come that they might have Zoë .dying on the cross was only a means to this end.

You should on your own carry out a study on Zoë then you’d understand what the real gospel of Jesus Christ is about.

Lets isolate a case- Jesus at a point said we were to love our neighbors as we love ourselves….much later while talking to his disciples he said they were to love as he(Christ) had loved them John 15:12. Or

He also said at one point- forgive so that your heavenly father will forgive you (this was according to the Law of Moses; ‘eye for an eye…)

Later on scripture says we should forgive as God for Christ’s sake has forgiven us Eph 4:32…do you see the contrast? The law before was a compulsory love the lord your God, with all your body, soul, mind, But now we can love him (God) easily because he loved us first and love is our new nature.

When Jesus went into the temple to preach, he opened the book of esaias the prophet and said…the spirit of the lord is upon me… that I should preach the Gospel to the poor: he had sent me to heal the broken hearted: to preach deliverance to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, to preach the acceptable year of the lord.
What isn’t clear to you here?

Jesus had a home. He lived in Capernaum. The bible says in john 1:38-39 the first two disciples – Andrew and john followed him there. They stayed there till late in the night because they heard him speak gracious words: words that edified the listeners. I know you may want to argue- so you can read it for yourself. After he was chased out of Nazareth for healing on the Sabbath he relocated to Capernaum, Luke 4:31 this was before he went to the house of Simon peter in vs. 38.

When he said “foxes have holes…but the son of man has nowhere to lay his head” you also have to realize that he had just entered Samaria for a crusade but the Samaritans did not prepare for him- they did not reserve a place for him to stay. Didn’t you notice his disciples where angry they said “let us command fire on them like Elijah did”…. Jesus rebuked them and told them “ye know not what manner of spirit ye have” implying that they didn’t understand the gospel if they thought it was about rebuke.

Who did Jesus rebuke? People who knew his word? No, no a thousand times no! he always rebuked the religious folks! The Pharisees! Those that said “isn’t that a carpenter’s son how says he then that he came from heaven?” the ones who thought they were always right and even Jesus was wrong. The ones that tried (forcefully) to shove down their Satan supported doctrines down the throats of the minors. The ones who wouldn’t lift a load but cause others to lift trucks; the ones who haven’t entered the kingdom and are trying to make many like themselves. He called them vipers-malicious, ungrateful and treacherous.

Didn’t you also notice the bible said a man offered to follow Jesus everywhere then Jesus said, ”even foxes have where to stay…but the son of man has nowhere to lay his head “(in Samaria)….duuuuh?

Jesus wore good clothes…he had an expensive jacket he wore that even the roman soldiers cast lots for. His garment was shared in four and each soldier took a piece home. Why?

The bible says multitudes ran after him- some wanted to touch him, some wanted to see him…you don’t want to touch and see an ugly man now do you?

When the prophet said he had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him it showed he wasn’t the idea people had of a messiah. They thought he (the Christ) would come in his glory (the way we expect him during his second coming) that’s why they weren’t attracted to him.

The gospel (true and complete one) we preach produces the same result; hatred; terror and adoration

Hatred from the religious people who say we make everything “feel good”

Terror to the kingdom of darkness because the more prosperous Gods people are the more impart they’d make in reaching the world with the Gospel.

Adoration from people who need it; The lost now know they’re saved; sinners now know they’re forgiven; the poor now know they’re rich; the sick now know they’re healed. This is the Gospel!

Talking about seed Jesus once asked a little boy for his lunch- five loaves and two fish…he fed the multitude with it (twelve baskets remained) and I’m sure he gave the remnants to the little boy because he said “give and it shall be given unto you…good measure, pressed down….shall MEN give unto you”

The gospel is not about sin but about righteousness.Rom1:17

We are aware that sin is in the world- it came through the first Adam. See, it’s easy to preach sin and condemnation because it’s easy to complain- even unbelievers can preach sin. But when it comes to righteousness people shy away yet righteousness came through the second and last Adam- Jesus Christ. He is our righteousness. This is what sinners need to hear so that they’d know they have dominion over sin. This is righteousness consciousness.
Don’t complain about darkness just turn on the light….you catch my drift?

You should ask yourself whether you’re in the position to talk about power, justice and wrath of God.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is the power of God! Rom 1:16 it is powerful enough to make the poor-rich whilst saving them from hell.

People like your lot that keep using caustic words and keep pointing accusing fingers should be reminded of Gods justice and wrath. God (the word) is the only Judge!

….Without “faith” it is impossible to please God…

Jesus said “ if you abide in me and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what “ye” will and it shall be done unto you”…isn’t it a contrast from 1john 5:14? Or rather is your own understanding distorted?

After all , ”All the promises of God in Christ Jesus are yea and amen” meaning God always says “yes” when we ask in Christ Jesus or rather in the -character or better still name of Christ Jesus.

So what did john mean?

Well, he said “if we ask according to his will he hears us, notice he said he hears us not he will do it but he hears us meaning if we don’t ask according to his will he will not hear us. Do you need a grammarian?
This simply means it’s the way we ask that matters not what we ask because if we abide in Christ and his words abide in us we will ask what we will and it will be given.

The bible says we should ask in faith: without doubting and we should ask in the name of Jesus.

It’s like trying to phone a friend, if you dial the wrong number your friend will not hear you. It’s not that he/she didn’t want to, it’s just that you asked the wrong way…get it?

This is getting tiring…Jesus said to the rich young ruler “have you obeyed the commandments? He responded “all these I have kept since my youth” then Jesus said “Go and sell what you have” …do you see the wealth wasn’t the issue, if it was Jesus would have said it first but he didn’t, he asked the more important first which was the commandment. It was after this, that he said, ”how hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom”, He didn’t say how hard it is for the saved rich folks he said the “rich”. I’m not splitting hairs, he was trying to say some rich people would think they would make it into the kingdom because they where rich and the people then saw riches as a blessing from God. Hence the, Carmel-eye of a needle comparison…

The eye of the needle was like a passage: a window like door too small for a person to enter with his Carmel. One would have to get down from the Carmel, help it get through and then get through himself. Didn’t you also see that the disciples where surprised “they said who then can be saved?” Jesus said with man it is impossible but not with God, In other words a rich man can enter -just ONLY with God.

I really don’t like doing this but I feel obligated to help you out. Just keep an open mind. Selah!

@ pastor/ bro joagbaje

thank you sir ! but i'm actually greater than an angel i was made a little lower than elohim, lol!

me too!

@ alatheia

Let me resolve this once and for all…….

1john 3:8 says a Christian; one who’s born of God cannot sin….right? So since you got born again (assuming you are) are you going to tell me you have never “sinned” since then? Now if you have does it mean the bible was not sure of what it said because it said one who’s born of God cannot sin.

Now reconciling it with the above discussion, if the bible says….those that dwell in Zion shall not say I am sick…. And you find yourself sick then it means the word of God is positing gnostism; spiritual elitism….an entirely false gospel….are you serious?

Then you say I exonerate my experiences over the word, boy sorry man I think you need to shine the light of God into your heart, you are not seeing the truth, 2cor4:3-4

The standard/ yardstick of Christianity is Christ: Jesus Christ. Every man in Christ is prepared by the people occupying the ministry offices like apostles, pastors, prophets, teachers and evangelists till we (every Christian) all come in unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ Eph 4:13. We are to put on Christ, be in Christ, grow in Christ till we become the same measure or attain the same stature that he has.

I guess the point I’m trying to make is that if Christ wasn’t sick, I have no business telling people that (occasionally) as long as we’re on earth we’re to fall ill….that’s trash! It has nothing to do with Christ. If any Christian still finds himself falling ill occasionally then he/she is not doing the word.

In 1john1:6 the bible says if we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in darkness (disease, ignorance, poverty etc.) we lie, and do not the truth. Notice it didn’t say we lie and are not telling the truth rather it says we lie and do not the truth. In other words we lie and are not acting the word (Gods word is truth)

I’m not going to spend time explaining it to you again about Erastus and the lot. They’re not the full measure, Christ is.
I will show you one last thought

God didn’t want Paul to exalt himself through the abundance of revelations given to him, so he permitted him to have to have a thorn in the flesh (messenger of Satan) to keep him humble. Simply put the messenger of Satan meant an angel of Satan ( grk aggelos). It is never translated disease or physical infirmity and never means such. Satan’s messenger buffeted Paul so he won’t be tempted to become exalted reading from 2cor 11:23-27 he mentioned some of the things he went through, some of the things the messenger caused to happen to him and still he didn’t mention disease or ailment there. In fact the same word translated “thorn” here (skolop) was used in Num 33:55 and Hos 2:6 without indicating an ailment or disease.

Since God assured Paul that his grace was sufficient in such a time Paul said “he’d glory in such infirmities” and when he is weak then he’s strong not when his sick then he’d be well…you dig right? Really How can anybody glory in sickness?

I also studied the word astheneia and none of the words that came up related to disease or illness. Mt 8:17 says Christ took our infirmities and bare our sicknesses- how can he take it and let us live in it? It’s inconsistent!
The fact that pauls thorn in the flesh consisted of reproaches, necessities, persecutions, distress and infirmities proves that infirmities had to do with his trials, troubles and sufferings of body and soul which he listed in 2cor 11:23-33 and not a physical disease.

Did you read the story of James the brother of john? Where King herod took and had him killed with the sword( the church then may have been saying to themselves “he doesn’t know who brother James is” or he’s powerful oh, he’s a man of God” until he died). Maybe you will tell me it was God’s will for him to die there abi? The bible says when Herod noticed it pleased the Jews he took peter also….then prayer was made without ceasing of the church unto God for him. (You see they saw they needed to do something)…you know the rest of the story.

Didn’t you read that God told Moses he’d take the people out of bondage and take them into the Promised Land? Was it Moses or Joshua who did it finally? Why? Did God lie?

The point is this; no matter how faith filled a person is if he allows anything into his life and it affects him adversely, it doesn’t in any way negate the word of God. The bible says we are to work out our own salvation and that the just shall live by his own faith.

In observing the case of Elisha, I hope you know Elisha wasn’t God always walking in the will of God at every point in time. He missed things sometimes like when he prophesied that the Moabites will be destroyed by the Israelites- he was wrong! The Moabites won the war. Prior to this instance Elisha couldn’t hear from the spirit of God(he needed a minstrel) because he nursed hatred in his heart for the king of Israel showing us that our attitude as well as disobedience and ignorance can also limit the efficacy of the word of God in our lives.
I’m also aware that his very bones revived another dead man which buttresses the truth even further that if he willed to resist the sickness from his body he would have or maybe he got angry with another person (probably the minstrel) lol! So nobody could stir him right only God knows. But the word of God clearly shows us that every Christian ought to live in good health all the rest of his life on earth.

Jesus said these signs shall follow them that believe…, ”they shall lay their hands over the sick and they shall recover”…, ”Nothing shall by any means hurt them”…

Think of it, Jesus said they shall lay their hands over the sick (notice he didn’t even say they shall pray for the sick) he said they shall lay their hands over the sick and the sick shall recover: meaning they’d have something in them that could resist diseases even the diseases of others. They’d have a disease killing life! Wooow! Rom 8:11

See what you’ve made me do; this has to be my longest post ever. You can read the first three or four paragraphs and you’d get the gist. If after reading this you don’t agree with me; you can go on believing what you want. I know what I believe and its working for me glory to God!

@ogajim

Enough of the childishness…….

What is WWE- world wrestling entertainment…not world wrestling ministry, but world wrestling entertainment! It was initially called WWF but when they realized that people took it too serious they renamed it WWE. Now I don’t mean to give you a history on wrestling but the point I’m trying to make is that a lie can only be in office for long, it can never be there forever.

CE as a ministry began in the early eighties meaning that if you had left the country before then you must have really missed out on the happenings here, which explains why you have a “soft-cellic” understanding of it. For your information I joined this forum in July 2009 after painstakingly going through all the topics (well almost all).so I know some things about what you believe- at least as it pertains to giving in church in form of tithes, first-fruits, offerings etc. we are all entitled to our beliefs but we must understand that as Christians they must be wholly dependent on the word of God that is revealed to us through his core nature: love.  What this means is that we should study the word by the help of the spirit of God with Gods core nature as a guideline i.e. with love as a guideline.

I’m not ignorant of many false practices and teachings in the house of God but you will never see me post a topic against it neither will I attack propagators of it, because God’s core nature is love. The bible says we know we have passed from death unto life because we love the brethren. Jesus said let the tares and wheat grow together if you try to pluck them out (tares) you’d uproot the wheat with them. On the day of the harvest the tares will be removed first (meaning it’s not the rapture as the church will be taken first during the rapture). Let them grow together God will uproot the false ones himself!

I do not also seek to defend any man; I am only here to defend what I believe. I did not grow up in CE I joined it which means I was somewhere else before joining it but you don’t see me putting up posts about where I was. You see I was observing some of the things done in the place and I realized it wasn’t working so I left to where I felt the word was working- see, I’m like you I don’t like to do or be a part of what isn’t working.

In CE we cannot but put the word of God to work every time. God told us through the apostle Paul to recognize those that labour among us, are over us and admonish us and esteem them very highly in love for their work sake.1thess5:12-13.  It would have been enough to say esteem them, but the word says we are to esteem them very highly in love for their work sake. That’s why we have so much respect for all our pastors not only pastor Chris.

No man of God I have watched or seen directs me more to the Jesus more than Pastor Chris. The point many of his critics don’t know is that Pastor Chris cannot teach you in a mere 30 minutes what he has learnt over time in the presence of God. You’d have to listen to him over time to fully appreciate the message he preaches and teaches.  He is not a “prosperity preacher” and he sure aint a “poverty preacher” too. He teaches the whole counsel of the word and demonstrates (properly) the character of the spirit so that people’s faith would not depend on the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
@zikky

I never said money was the only thing to be given when storing up treasures hence the “cup of cold water “analogy.  In our ministry there are a lot of new members who don’t have material substance like cash to give but they give their time and we always do appreciate it. Many of those who started out like that later on become great givers financially. It’s the word of God working- Jesus said he that is faithful in little is faithful in much and Paul said that God is not unrighteous to forget your labour of love.

@kunleoshob

I don’t think I have the time to start putting it out scripture upon scripture, precept upon precept line upon line for you. No offence man, but I think I’d be giving what is holy to dogs.

I thought you were catholic-you guys recite it in your creed….descended into hell, on the third day he rose again, he ascended into heaven and sitteth at the right of God the father almighty…… Maybe you’re not even a Christian posing as one, lifting scriptures out of place and making doctrines of it. The best theologian I know is Satan, yet his still a devil. It is not enough to have the word in your head let it get to heart/ spirit.

I didn’t intend on making this post this long, I tried to stop but I couldn’t. I guess if you take your time to read it you’d get the point I’m trying to make. Bless you!

@ pastor AIO

read what your ally ogajim wrote  then youl'd understand the motive behind the post.

everybody cant hear because hearing is indeed a gift.

The word consecrate means to sanctify, set apart, bless, hallow, dedicate etc. hence to consecrate something fully to God is to set that thing apart fully to God.

Jesus said when you give to the poor, you have given me .so it means that when you give the needy you give as unto God and thereby you lay up treasures for yourself in heaven. Also when you give towards the furtherance of the gospel you’re also laying up treasures for yourself. Even as little as giving a cup of cold water in the right spirit will be regarded as laying up treasures.  So how do you give when you have nothing to give? I thought you folks say we should remain at the poor level you where at before you came into Christ.  Doesn’t this imply that the more I have here on earth and give towards the gospel the more treasure I lay up for myself?

That’s the logic, you cannot lay up what you don’t have. You have to have it before you lay it up. Comprendre?

I know you may want to tell me that siver and gold, bla bla blah. But you need to remember that the same apostles made collections for the needy including receiving from a man who sold everything he had (including his expensive piece of land) and then they called him A SON OF CONSOLATION. That’s like indirectly telling him your reward is great in heaven or better still you have a lot of treasures in heaven being laid up for you.

@ogajim

I wouldn’t say you’re unwise! I’m tempted to say so but I wouldn’t. It would just be using a euphemism.

I don’t know what you folks mean when you say “prosperity gospel” there’s no such thing to me neither am I an advocate of it. But I’m sure of one thing, and one thing only in this case- nobody, I repeat nobody can preach the gospel of Jesus Christ in its entirety without mentioning that Christ’s death on the cross has brought us prosperity.

Prosperity to me has got nothing to do with having money. I know a lot of people who have a lot of money but are not prospering. But when a prosperous man does anything to make money (cash) he sure does make them because he is a prosperous man.

Jesus was a prosperous man, while on earth. He didn’t need to have all the money in the world to do some of the things he did. He was totally unaware of lack. He had no consciousness of it whatsoever. He fed multitudes, he paid his taxes, he healed the sick. Then he died on the cross for the whole world, descended into hell, defeated the forces of evil, rose again in his glory and said to us Go with all the authority I have, all the authority in heaven and in earth and tell the world I did this for them. Did what for them? That should be the real question.

I’m not so sure you are acquainted with the complete gospel of Jesus Christ. Your attitude tells it all.

How do we lay up treasures for ourselves in heaven and not on earth. Do we throw it up into the sky and hope God catches it and stores it for us? Certainly not. So what does it mean? Well to lay up treasures in heaven is to consecrate fully to God and to help all men who have need. Jesus in concluding said for where your treasure is there will your heart be also. Notice he didn’t say don’t get treasures he said store them in heaven because your heart will be where your treasure is.

My treasure is in the gospel of Jesus Christ and in his kingdom and I am more than ready to spend all I have to make sure every one hears this gospel. What I realized is that the more I give towards the kingdom cause the more I make progress, wax great, move forward and become even greater by the day. Halleluyah!

@impostor i mean poster

thanks alot for advertising pastor chris free of charge. somebody saw your post, went to the CE website saw what the God has been doing through the man and then gave his life to christ! On behalf of pastor Chris i thank you so much for asking stupid questions, what you meant for mischief God has used for his glory!
its the work of God and its marvellous in youe eyes.

Mr atheists sorry aletheia,

Shades of gnosticism; spiritual elitism. . .an entirely false gospel.You forgot to say docetic and cerithian heresy. Mscheeew!

I know your lot-indeed by their fruits you shall know them.
The types that don’t work the word and then get envious when they see it working in the lives of others.
The types that make the word of God of know effect through their traditions- what they always thought things should be like.
The types that exonerate their experiences over what the word has said.
My dear bro, even if an angel comes to me to tell me that every Christian is supposed to be sick  (occasionally) as long as we are in this world let him be accursed! Let every being be a liar and let Gods word be truth.

For the sake of others that would join this forum let me correct some of your out of context and false teachings.

2 Co 12:7  And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

When paul said “thorn in the flesh” he was using a figure of speech.” It’s like a pain in the neck” now this doesn’t mean one has a pain (literarily) in the neck. It just means something was disturbing him, like restricting him, challenging him. You get? Now I know you may want to ask what the thorn in the flesh was, well you have to realize this was his second letter to the church in Corinth. At this point he had been bitten, faced a lot of persecution, distresses etc. he was therefore, weak: infirmed. Not sick as you think. If you observe vs 12 same chapter he said he had powers to do apostolic signs, wonders and mighty deeds while he had this thorn in the flesh proving that it was not an ailment or disease else he would have healed himself.

Gal 4:13-14  Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first. And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

Same goes here man, temptation here in greek rendering is peirasmos- it doesn’t refer to sickness. It refers to all manner of temptations or trials that Christians face like Satan tempted Jesus or like when Jesus said lead us not into temptation…says nothing about sicknesses.

Php 2:25-27  Yet I supposed it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother, and companion in labour, and fellowsoldier, but your messenger, and he that ministered to my wants. For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick. For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.

Paul said he had been sick which means he was no longer sick at the point he was writing the letter so it means he got well from something. Hurray! You must have passed a point right? wrong!
Reading vs 30 the bible clearly states it was for the work of Christ that he was nigh unto death implying that he was over worked, because the work of God cannot make a person fall sick. God is not the author of diseases, the devil is. As a leader occasionally I have found myself weak in the flesh while organizing programmes, fasting etc. meaning I was tired and needed some rest not that I was sick. Even the lord Jesus was tired sometimes that he couldn’t even continue his journey; he stopped to have a drink of water. One could be so tired he’d think his going to die. It was just a physical breakdown from being over worked and for resting improperly. Read the chapter in context!

1 Jn 3:2  Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Now are we the sons of God, not when we go to heaven. Now! We are joint heirs with Christ now! As he is in heaven so are we in this world now! If he cannot get sick in heaven so shall we not get sick on earth now!
It does not appear, not that we are not the sons, but it doesn’t appear.  This means he is referring to physical features- his glorified body the type we’re going to put on on the day of the rapture.

Titus 2:11-14  For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Here referring to the rapture again not saying anything about being sick occasionally till Christ comes, period.

@vivaladiva

No offence lady, but I don’t think you’re in the position to proffer your opinions on this matter because you still see Christianity as a religion. Contrary to what you must have been told or heard it is not.

You said on your last trip to Nigeria there was a proliferation of church buildings with no evident change in the state, right? Then you say everybody can’t be rich, healthy, happy and all what not. Funny as it may seem you are right. Very right. But you see that is because everybody is not a Christian. Every Christian, I repeat, every Christian ought to be in good health, in prosperity, and full of joy. I didn’t come up with the idea God did when he willed the blessings to father Abraham and his seed. The bible clearly states that in Gal 3:16. God willed the blessings not to everybody but specifically to Abraham and his seed. That seed is Christ. When a person gets born-again he becomes in Christ a new creature or species that never existed, his past is deleted a new future awaits him, and that future means if you were poor before, you are now rich, sick before, then you are now healthy, sad before now to have unspeakable joy! That is the gospel! Your sins are removed-blotted out you are now the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. Not because of what you did or will do but because of what Christ did. This is too big for the religious mind. How can something be gospel if it is not good news? I didn’t make this up its all in the book. But then again you say you don’t believe it so I really do not blame you.

I do not know what you mean by “prosperity gospel” all I know is the true gospel (whole counsel of it) of our lord Jesus Christ. And the benefits of his death on the cross which every one( Christians should know and tell others)

@ogajim
No Pastor introduced seed sowing God almighty himself did.

Did you ever read about Elijah in the bible? The bible says God was feeding him with meat brought to him by ravens (greediest birds on earth) during a time of farming. Not too long after God told him to leave the place and move to zarephath so that a widow could provide for him. Why did God need to do that he could have just commanded the river to continue flowing and the ravens would continue supplying the meat one may want to ask? Isn’t he God? It’s amazing the way God thinks sometimes because he sent Elijah not to just any widow, God sent him to the one of the poorest.

The prophet got there and asked her to get him some water which she willingly did but when he said can I have some cake she retorted oh no! That’s the last I have I have kept it so that I and my child can eat it and die. The prophet told her to go ahead and do what he had said, after some convincing she obliged. If this were done today tabloids, soft cell magz would write about it and call him a con man fleecing widows (poor ones for the matter) of their meals. They may even caption it “greedy prophet eats poor widow’s mite”

But after she obeyed we know what happened, she got blessed and she ate everyday during the famine-her and her family. Jesus while referring to the story said something remarkable, he said there were many widows in Zarephath at the time. Why was Elijah sent to her? Ans, God knew she would be the only one to respond by faith not with her head. Think of it. It doesn’t make any sense-her last meal! Her last meal! How could the prophet be so wicked, many would have said not knowing the blessings that where to ensue.

Don’t be carnally minded, God didn’t need her help to feed the prophet; he was already doing it before. God just wanted to bless her so he sent the prophet to her. Prophets are sent for us. When we believe them (I mean the true ones) we become prosperous. 2chron 20:20

@ atre

i really dont know how to go about helping you. i think your case is chronic. no offence man.

you quoted something from proverbs and you said it was the apostle paul solomon that wrote it. good so the real question should be how wealthy was solomon? and please dont give me that ask for wisdom got waelth trash philosophy, because the same solomon wrote that a wise man should make money for himself else his wisdom be despised.Ecc9:15-16.

on the other hand you say sickness is very much endorsed in the bible citing paul, timothy and Job,
please wht does this mean-1peter2:24, i dont understand it! ok what of 3john1:2 or james 5:14 ,
lets really analyse the last, James said is there any sick among you? why did he ask such? is it because it was an anomally for a christian gathering to have sick people in their midst? ok then he said the elders should pray for the sick, right? when the elders are sick who prays for them then? ans, the elders dont get sick. now this elders are not the old folks in the congregation but the people who have so masterd the word that it continually produces results in their lives.

why in the world do you think Jesus came?
please do a research on this, it would amaze you what you would find out.

did i hear you mention Job, please read Job 3:25

paul nko? well please read rom 8:11, so many things i have to say but i think they're precious pearls. too precious to fling away.

finally like bro paul, my prayer for you is that the God of our lord Jesus Christ the father of glory may give unto u the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowlegde of him: the eyes of your understanding being enlightenened:that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints

@kunleoshob

I just saw your post, thought to ignore it, but on second thought let me drive a few points.

Be very careful the way you talk about this man- this Man of God, Pastor Chris. He is not a demon and he doesn’t teach false gospels. I know him quite well. Believe me; if you really knew him you would love him. Pastor doesn’t like us defending him in fact if he saw your post he’d smile and say good words over you. He does that all the time to his critics.

But let me share a few things with you. I have heard him say personally that no comment centered on attacking his person can annoy him or even get him angry the reason for this in his own words is that- he has abandoned himself, he doesn’t live anymore, Chris is a dead man the man you see now is Christ living in and through me” he’s also fond of saying “I have never met anybody in this world that I haven’t loved, that includes you too. he tells us “if u still get offended by peoples remarks towards you then it means you’re still full of yourself. Doesn’t this remind you of the apostle Paul who said the same in Gal 2:20?

Pastor Chris is the most self less pastor in this world that I know. He is also the most organized. It was only when I joined CE that I found out that he doesn’t live on a salary. The proceeds from the books, tapes, DVDs all go into a church cause. mark my words, not one kobo goes to a personal account. He doesn’t have all this jets, planes, landed property, houses, and cars like many other men of God. His totally sold out for the gospel. When you see him on TV in nice suites and clothes you’d think he’s very flamboyant what you wouldn’t know is before he got there a lot of groaning, intercessions, mourning’s he did in his office for the unsaved. Pastor is so passionate about the unsaved that his ready to exploit every positive means possible to reach out to them. Because though we’re married to principles we’re not married to methods, that’s why God keeps blessing and increasing him giving him people and ideas to further the gospel. This explains our TV ministry, Cyber Ministry etc. he tells us of how he used to go to hospitals as young man in his teens crying and praying for the sick. God loves people who use their lives to make other people. That is who he is. I joined CE after I heard him teach on 1Cor9:19…that message and another called SONS OF CONSOLATION. These messages still keep me in tears when I think of them.


Do you really know what it costs to put a satellite in orbit where people that acquire the decoders don’t pay subscription, hosts TV programmes and subscribe for air time on almost all stations possible, write books and print. When you still pay for the paper, ink etc. yet still sell them at beat down prices so that people can get access to them? If you doubt it compare the quality of the materials and their prices with other ones even abroad .Do you know that of all the partners in our ministry he is still our biggest giver? Last year, a book on the truth about Jesus was published and sent around the world were lies are been perpetuated about the gospel of Jesus. 2million copies were sent- do you know how much it cost? Do you know in 2002-as recent as 2002 on his bday the church worldwide gave him 7million naira as a gift. He used the money to purchase cameras for the technical crew, the same cameras that were used in the 2002 world cup. The church were furious, they thought if the church needed a camera why not tell us and we would contribute and get it but he responded by saying he was responsible too for sowing his own seeds and since they gave the money to him then he could use it as he pleases. Do u know that in 1996 his bday gift was a car? A car? As recent as 1996?

Do you think the tithes are given to him to use? Are you so carnal? Ask yourself one question, before you became a Christian was the kingdom of God not moving forward? I always ask myself this too. Before I joined CE they had programmes on air, they spent a lot of money holding crusades yet in some no offerings were taking. So now that I’m member why would I think it’s my money he is living on? See, they were sometimes that I didn’t pay my tithe and nobody called me to remind me. I was touched; it was like they didn’t even notice because I saw things get better and better. Do you know how many people he gives things to; I mean cars, money, and clothes to on a daily basis? Have you heard about the inner city mission of our church? We feed thousands of children, clothe them, give them free education, teach them a vocational skill-even many under age parents and over aged parents benefit from this. If you don’t know please don’t talk. I know you may want to ask why we don’t show it on TV but you people are the same who would start saying all this “don’t let your right hand see what your left hand is doing rubbish” they say the same about the miracles in our ministry.

I asked you before do you know why Jesus said blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven? What do you think it means to be poor in spirit? Don’t you know that a man can have nice clothes and shoes, a nice wrist watch even cars but still be poor in his spirit? In other words such a person has given up everything spiritually. Even though you could see them with those nice things those things don’t own them anymore. When a need arises in the house of God and they are a bit short they’d willingly give those nice things so that the gospel can move forward. Whether you believe it or not that’s the kind of person Pastor Chris is.

I said all that to tell you that you don’t know the man so stop talking about him that way. I plead with you on this.

Keep doing do the good work Mabell. Pastor would be proud of you. we are to reach the unsaved by every means possible.

@ kunleoshobi

you have come again. leave Pastor Chris out of it. you believe "prosperity preaching" is for covetous christians then you go on and sell your things (cafe inclusive) and give the earnings to the poor. God will reward you greatly for it.

Martin luther, a former catholic priest turned refomer said if the devil wants to paralyse the church he'd convince them to believe that poverty is of God and that God humbles his people occasionally using ailments and diseases. so if you are propagating that notion too i.e (prosperity preaching is wrong) then you are unwittingly endorsing the bad news of the devil. if i may ask, what do you think salvation is all about? going to heaven? no thats just one of its benefits- salvation is all encompassing and i'm pretty sure you'v heard all this things before i'm only puzzled as to why you are head strong concerning what you believe. if salvation was about heaven only alot of us would have gone to heaven by now but God left us here to reach the unsaved, to proclaim liberty to the captives, to heal the sick, to preach the gospel to the poor, salvation is consummated when we are heaven bound, prosperous, healthy, efficient you know this dont you?

do u knw its impossible to teach the real gospel of Jesus christ without making many rich?do u know when we say "if being prosperous is going to make me disobey God then God shoudnt make me prosperous" is to say the least BLASPHEMOUS! because we are telling God indirectly that there was no need for Christs death since  the reasons christ came  was to give us ZOE- Gods life. my dear that life is all encompassing and it sure doesnt endorse poverty.

in one post you were commending TB Joshua for giving a lot towards the haiti cause, now how would he have been able to raise such amount (3mill $) if he wasnt loaded? hope you know having money and being prosperous are two entirely different things all together. what do you think jesus meant when he said blessed are the poor in spirit?

my advise for people like you is that if after seeing this you still hold on to your satan supported scheme then you should do so by encouraging yourself(ves) only, dont come here casstigating others for not seeing it the same way you do.

@mr kunleoshob
[tr]it is wrong teachings such as the twisted version of compulsary tithing and first fruits that is very popular in false churchs like CEC [/tr]

all too often i have seen u put up censurous comments against a ministry u knw close to nothing about. i feel very sorry for you. this post is about TB Joshua, why dont u stick to the topic and live CEC out of it.

to the very best of my knowlegde u are not a a member of CEC, so how you make statements such as the afore-mentioned is really baffling.

if i may ask, how do u knw its compulsory to the members? if it was imposed on the jews of old to love God,pay tithes,pray etc. though it was difficult for them. dont u think dat now that we are loved of God and can LOVE him ourself that we should give to his cause, FREELY?

if u believe that one can get blessed without giving firstfruits and paying tithes, why would they now get cursed for giving and paying it?

, i have been reading some of your comments on this topic and others and thought to let you know what i felt, you would do yourself some good if you'd just discuss what you knw the least about instead of peddling old wive fables,

Lol, but no. . that is far fetched. The OP has not argued that he does not understand the Gospel of Jesus or the teachings of his apostles. Rather, he is asking pertinent questions about what pastor Chris teaches from the Gospel - a vastly different thing altogether. anybody can make up some kind of teaching from the Gospels and the epistles; but if questions are asked, it does not mean that the enquirer is ignorant of the Gospel, but rather questioning the maverick who tries to propound new interpretations from that same Gospel.

My dear viaro, I think u shud be careful when addressing issues like this particularly ones concerning the scriptures.
First and foremost,theres an astronomical difference btw a proposition and a revelation from the holy spirit. While the latter elucidates by making the simple, wise the former leaves the simple in a state I like to call spiritual confusion.
How do u mean? U may ask, well I’d tell u, Do u remember the words of Jesus in matt 21:21- “…if u have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree but u can also say to this mountain, go throw urself into the sea, and it will be done.22 if u beliv u will receive whateva u ask for in prayer”, well I have heard a lot of folks(including preachers) say that this was”(only) figurative and that the master didn’t really mean a mountain, but anyfin that presents itself as such. As nice as that sounds and logical,if I may add that is not what he said. He said simply-say to a mountain move and it will.period.
Am I discrediting their beliefs? An emphatic NO! just showing that they cud undermine the power of God by believing or endorsing somfin less than what God has said, if he said a mountain,he meant a mountain yet not only a mountain (both physical and figurative) but “WHATEVA” u ask for…u dig?
How does this apply to the matter above? Well, well, well in the book of Joshua 1:8
The word MEDITATE was actually rendered HAGAH-that’s Heb for muttering, brooding, talking consistently under ones breath. The English Lang didn’t have a perfect synonym for the word so bible students chose the word meditate (to think deeply usually in silence) u see how the meanings differ. Now pastor chris by the power of the holyspirit taught us to read the scriptures in context and then rightfully divide the word of truth. By doing so I came to the understanding that God wanted them to do more than just think deeply in silence but to hagah, mutter, talk consistently the book of the law. That’s y he said it shudnt depart out their mouth. It is more than keeping it in ur heart it’s about saying it for keeping it in ur heart is not enuff. Jesus said- u shall have what ye say….and also that , ”of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh”
This is not a new age teaching neither is it from a maverick who tries to propound new interpretations from that same Gospel.
If that was so, the simple inference would be that Joshua was not supposed to pray, but just create his own world and circumstances without relying on God!
Where is this comin frm? The bible says this book of the law…the law of the lord…
Have u eva come across this scripture Heb 13:5 , ”….for God has said I will not leave u nor forsake u so that we shall boldly say the lord is my helper of whom shall I fear?” U see God has said…so that we shall boldly say,

Second, it would mean that Joshua didn't get the hang of what he was being taught if pastor Chris was right in saying that his congregation should see themselves as "gods". Did Joshua see himself as a 'god' by meditating as he was asked to do in Josh. 1:8? A lot depends on your understanding and answer to this.

There we go again, where is this coming from? Cant u remember the words of Jesus- “…with men it is impossible but with God all things are possible, ” and then later he said, ”everyfin is possible for him who believes”, if everyfin is possible to God and everyfin is possible to him that believes doesn’t it show a close relationship with the believers and God i.e that all things are possible to them. This is what MEDITATING on the word does to u,it increases ur awareness,it awakens u to the fatherhood of God. It is what gave Joshua the audacity later on to command the sun and moon to stand still. Incase u didn’t knw it was what also made Jesus the way he was while he was on earth.what am sharing with u is called Christ consciousness:it’s a God consciousness that Christians shud have. Didn’t Jesus do the same when he commanded the storm to be still, a tree to dry frm its root-I mean his disciples where astonished they said “what manna of man is this”. Have u read about Abraham, Isaac, David even down to the apostle paul? Who declared by the holyspirit that he can do all things…don’t u knw that one whose born of God is a god just like one whose born of a dog is a dog?. Don’t u knw that the Christian is born of God? If Joshua didn’t have this God-mentality how cud he then do what he did? Even back then when he cudnt be born again. How much more can we do now that we have the holyspirit parambulating in us? 2cor 6:16 did u ever hear God speak thru d psalmist when he declared-“I have said ye are gods and all of u are children of the most high”, dear viaro, yes, yes, a thousand times yes Joshua knew what God meant and yes he meditated so,that’s y his progress was evident to all.Josh 10:14

, Stop discussing Irrelevancies, we're nt Phased.

@uplawal,

Is it?

its quite funny the way u folks always have somefin to say about a ministry that cares less about what u Hypercrites have 2 say, firstly, a hair style cannot increase a ministry if u fink it can, stake biblical claims dat ascertain that, secondly, wearing a "GALLAS" can in no way upset God, what kinda hair style do u fink God wants or looks out for?thirdly, d pope wears a cap, bishops too,Archbishops too, Question-are they holier than u? if they cud wear it in the church and call demselves "orthodox" den i fink nobody wud go to hell for wearing a cap/hat in church. if u (ofcousre) fink so pls enlighten me-i mean verses n chapters, u dig?