₦airaland Forum

neighy:
mikel is a legend in chelsea Wow

I don't want to talk

tbaba1234:
Distorting facts?

Brazil did not score against USA till the 72nd min. It was goalless for a long time. Yet the young striker was not introduced.

Amuneke did not play a single minute in Tunisia 94 till the final.

Ronaldo could certainly have played the final, Brazil were dominant but could not find a breakthrough.

What about the third group game against Sweden? Brazil had already qualified, what better time to introduce the youngster.

He was simply not seen as ready. USA 94 was a way to blood a great prospect into the team not to play him.

the fact was in that game against USA they were reduced to ten men in the first half and in that situation you do not introduce a striker at all, rather you even take out a striker to ensure stability.


In the other games IIRC their coach was conservative. He hardly made any sub, the simple truth is that Ronaldo deserved his spot at that world cup

Joebie:
Sir don't forget that Onazi attempted move to a Championship side failed. It usually happens to players like that after a botched move. He will regain his regular spot in the team.

@bolded so natural positions dey change like that eh? .

Onazi was not played in the wings at Lazio. At least in his last season there he featured as a CM or DM.

I think you quoted the wrong comment, this was about Kelechi not Onazi Sir

TheGoodJoe:
As I said, why must the Europeans decide the growth of our players. By the time the so called rinse repeat system gets him to a top club, he would have lost the time of training and working with top quality legends that help mould young creative legends early.

A good example was Mikel working with Makelele and Mikel at a young age. These help mould the minds of greats. While the rinse and repeat system is working, we can quicken the growth of Kelechi Nwakali by training him along side a football legend like Mikel.

Mikel is a nigerian legend not a football legend for me(all na legend sha). Meanwhile the rinse repeat system varies in speed. For great players or near great players like Ronaldo the process was quick from Sporting to ManU, Odegaard as well. If Kelechi is anything like these players then he won't stay for long there, no need wasting a spot on the national team for him

TheGoodJoe:
He will always be a natural midfielder. Playing him in another role does not mean his midfield talent he has disappeared. It is like saying because Chelsea played Mikel in the four role for years, he could not play as a creative attacking midfielder again.

Actually, there where people who were saying such funny statements then.

you know Chelsea played a dual pivot system all along and at some point during games Mikel was still seen in the CMF role so that case is different. Alba is a natural winger who has been playing as a LB for a while now, play him as a winger and you won't see him in the game. When you move into a new position that keeps you far away from your natural position then you will certainly start losing those natural traits.

TheGoodJoe:
You can learn from players but it is ridiculous claiming a player can learn the same thing from average midfielders, compared to top quality legends.

the term 'average player' is relative. Since these 'average players' are keeping Kelechi on the bench that means they have some qualities that he needs to pick up from them. If he picks up those qualities he will become a starter and if he becomes a starter he will move to a better club, rinse and repeat. That's how every player starts, even Mikel

forgiveness:
Onazi was played as a CMF all through at Lazio.
How effective was he at Lazio?

you know that this is false abi? Or do I need to show you the stats?

TheGoodJoe:
The discussion is about Kelechi Nwakali who does not have Origi and Mario Gomez kind of quality in the club and role he plays for. I Wonder why you are talking Osimhen. Please, Osimhen and Kelechi Nwakali are different players.

but you have given this same excuse for Oshimen before, do I need to dig it up?

TheGoodJoe:
No one says using the National team to market him. I said use the National team to build one of our most promising talents. Do not use that he must be in a top club by now as an excuse. European football does not work like that for African players. The road is harder. That is why we must make conscious efforts to make it easier for our players to develop. Especially, the special ones. Kelechi Nwakali was spotted in his early things and rose to prove the coaches and analysts who spotted him right by bagging the U17 World Cup golden ball.

Now we must not fold our arms and let the fate of his success lie in the arms of the Europeans. We should be more proactive with our special talents.

We need someone in the future who can bring to the team the kind of quality Mikel has. Kelechi Nwakali is a player who ticks the right boxes. Both in talent potential, role and style of play.

So waiting for the Europeans is comical.

Marketing entails playing him for clubs to see his quality. That is not what I said. I said bring him to camp to train along side Mikel, who is a high quality player. This will aid his growth.

you did not understand what I said. I am not talking about top clubs, he is at a low club right now but can't tie down a regular shirt, what does that tell you?

When he was at his former club, they were playing him as a winger sometimes, doesn't that tell you that he may not be a natural midfielder anymore?

BascoVanVeli:
A normal comment from Onazi's sworn enemy. I wouldn't expect u to say anything else.

So Onazi is more effective in the Cmf role than say Raheem Lawal or John Ogu or Joel Obi or Ajagun?


Meanwhile Humility, this argument is solely based on Onazi's performance(s) as a CMF, not his game against Cameroon(I believe I said he had a nice game against Cameroon although I did point out his deficiencies)

TheGoodJoe:
The few times the player trains in camp is better than lots of time training with players who are even of less quality than him. You can not tell how Osimhen training with Rohr has helped Osimhen by watching on TV. He is developing and is a young player. The training always helps.

By the way Benching does not mean no development. The young man is even lucky to have players like Origi and Mario Gomez in camp to study and train with. With time the effect will show.

you see you are contradicting yourself. So he has top players like Gomez and Origi to train with why then do we have to 'groom' him in the national team? I thought your excuse is that he is playing with players below his level? Which current SE striker is better than these guys? So why is he coming to our team exactly since he can learn from better players in his club?

Back to Nwakali, he is still sitting on the bench, that means the starters are better than him. We all know that you can always learn from anybody, so telling me that he must come to a 6-day camp to learn instead of inviting bonafide starter-materials is not fair at all

forgiveness:
So, you know he can play comfortably in both positions but you pretended or played ignorant not to know.

Chopping bench changes nothing about his ability to play in those positions.

90% of DMFs can play as CMFs. Kante, Busquets, Kroos, Ndidi and the list goes on so there is nothing special there. The question is how effective is Onazi in the CMF role compared to other potential CMFs that we have? And the answer is....not very effective

tbaba1234:
Even in difficult games like against USA and Italy, Ronaldo was not brought on. He was 17, the impact, he could have made is debatable.

you see you are now distorting facts.

First against USA I recall Brazil had a player sent off and they scored not so late into the game, like the 68min or so, in that case which sane manager will bring on a striker when you are one man down and you have already scored a goal?

And the final against Italy was too big an occasion to introduce a rookie who was yet to make any appearance at the world cup, if the coach had done that and they lost then he would have been killed for that. The reason why he did not play then is because he is/was a striker and strikers don't get subbed in anyhow

TheGoodJoe:
Do you think Wilshere would have been seen as top quality if he was in VVV Venlo? Definitely not? However, training and playing among quality players at Arsenal gave him a leap to the English National team.

Our Nigerian prospects are at a disadvantage in Europe. Judging them with the yardsticks of European football is comical and ignorant to the fact that as a National team, we must make conscious efforts to give our promising talents the push their European counterparts get in their club.

Kelechi Nwakali might not have been in the sky high of football charts but the fact is that he is a special talent and we must not wait for the foreigners to decide when we should give him a push.

Reminds me of the ignorance of Oliseh when it concerned Iheanacho until Pellegrini gave him the nod against Crystal Palace.

the national team camp lasts barely a week, highest 6-10 times a year, how will you groom a player using that limited number of time? Oya the 'grooming' Oshimen received how has it helped his life? Origi is keeping the guy cozy on the bench and I don't even rate Origi that much

TheGoodJoe:
Tammy and Solanke are good players but as I pointed earlier, a lot of success has a lot to do with the midfield of the team. That is why when we lose players like Mikel, the team suffers. Remember how Italy was nullified in the friendly game against Nigeria under Keshi. As soon as Pirlo came in, the Italians took control of the game.

If England wanted to groom a player, Jack Wilshere would have been a perfect fit. Today, my tip is Phil Folden. Fortunately for the English, they have their players training daily with top quality talents and getting the grooming. They mostly play in the same league, have a decent youth League structure and their junior teams play quality games regularly.

Also their youngsters have the luxury of training with top quality talents. Look at Folden training among the likes of David Silva, Gundogan, Fernandinho, Yaya Toure, Kevin De Bruyne and Fabian Delph.

You can not expect us deficient in a lot of areas to abandon the growth of one of our most promising talents in recent years, Kelechi Nwakali to develop by chance.

We need to play our part

if he truly is one of our most promising talents then he should be at a top club right now. It is not our fault that he is in the dutch league, his quality may still shine now but telling me that we should use the national team to market him to clubs isn't right, besides he has nothing to offer the national team at all right now.


Ok let me ask, is there any top teams that 'groom' players in this way?

Joebie:
I'm making an argument that sometimes a special player gets the nod as joker. Not necessarily making a case for Nwakali. Brazil's squad to USA 94 was a star studded side na. I bet you there were other strikers ahead of Ronaldo9 that didn't go. Did Ronaldo9 even kick a ball at the mundial? Now answer your own question. Is it fair?

Let me go check his stats prior to that world cup.

Ok just show me Ronaldo's stats before that world cup and other world class strikers that were dropped because of him then I can decide if it was fair

tbaba1234:
Ronaldo did not play in USA 94, He was just there to make up the numbers

but he could have made an impact if needed, can Nwakali do the same?

Joebie:
Was taking Ronaldo9 to USA94 fair?

Nwakali is no Ronaldo. And at that age, Ronaldo was already deciding games in the brazilian league. That one was fair, plus they didn't have better strikers on the bench

Joebie:
I feel the same way..

someone to come and ask, "who will he displace?" hahaha

welcome to the 'Onazi haters fanclub' according to my good friends Kog45 and Sir forgiveness

Joebie:
For special players, it happens sometimes. Depends on the coach's vision though.

but is it fair?

Joebie:
Onazi will be very difficult to displace in SE. He is still young and has world cup experience.

I like the guy....as a squad piece though not a starter. For sure he deserves a spot on the team but....on the bench for me

Joebie:
Trabz na .. he still dey there.
He is a dmf/cmf I think

Trabzonspor. Currently he is a bench warming DMF there(he did make a substitute appearance as a CMF not too long ago that was why I didn't take his bait)

TheGoodJoe:
What use is the extra spot if it will not help our future? Not all players that come to camp will play. Why not sacrifice that spot for a player who has the potential of ruling our midfield for years. We need him studying Mikel now.

if you look closely you will see that in our midfield, the ages of the players there overlap eachother. How old is Azubuike? How old is Joel Obi? These guys are between 26-23 years and they still have 10 years to give atleast, Kelechi's time is still far, far, far away and inviting him now is pure injustice. That's why we have U20 and U23, it's just like England inviting Solanke or Tammy for them to come and be 'groomed', e fit happen?

TheGoodJoe:
That is why the term GROOM is used. It is not an immediate thing but a chance for the young man to train and work with one of the best midfielders the country ever produced.

This is working towards the future.

so we should sacrifice one spot in our team just because we want to 'groom' a future player?

Napoleon55:
''a fully fit joel obi is tatally better than everything we can offer in the CMF'' thank God some of u guys is not the coach, Ndidi the majority agreed that he is a potential world class is not close to joel obi,in other worlds joel obi is a woeld class then.

well probably because Ndidi is not a Cmf, read my comment again

forgiveness:
Of course, Joel Obi must be supper fit. However, his talent is not in question and that is my point.


Apart from Mikel and Onazi, none of those players you mentioned have a claim to a shirt in the national team in regard to the CM.

Onazi? Cmf? You have started again oo

Icon4s:
Same goes for Gabriel Reuben and Okechukwu Uchebo.

Keshi and his selections sha.

Uchebo!!!! Turns out the guy was 39 when he went to that World Cup(this is from an insider) and he totally burnt himself out during the friendlies prior to the world cup and when we got to the world cup he could barely run for 5mins. The guy sha did well during the friendly games we played before the world cup then.


Ramon Azeez is now in Lugo sha, he is doing quite well but...

Joebie:
Amkar Perm, Russia

the guy na walking red card

Kog45:
Pls where is Raheem Lawal, I remember this guy pushed Onazi to RB in one of our Afcon qualifying match under Keshi.

where is Ogude sef

kennysville:
Honestly, I think we should review this issue of stats. Truth is stats do not really reflect the ability of a player. It only reveals the activities of a player in his club and not his abilities. Have we tried considering the fact that a player may be played out of position in his club? On paper it might seem Agu is beta. But in reality, Azubuike is worlds apart. That guy can really boss a midfield. His control is exceptional. As for me, that dude is an asset.

Like someone mentioned earlier, at the u23 nations cup quarter finals, (if i am correct) he got carded and missed the semi final. That match, Nigeria struggled really hard without him. He was back in the final and things went back to normalcy.

The same played out at the Olympics. We missed him against the Germans. The rest is history. The only grouse I have with him is his affinity for getting carded. But if you are looking for someone to neutralize an opponents attack, with good passing ability while mikel Obi is upfront, then Azubuike is your man

I saw Mikel Agu come in our matches against Cameroon. First leg, he was ok. 2nd leg was in my opinion, not good enough. You can blame it on nerves or whatever. I would want to say this at this time. I am not doing player marketing here neither am I being biased. I respect every player that has been called into the super eagles. But when it comes to objectivity and productivity, I just feel we need to be an attacking team and not sitting ducks. As the old saying goes.... the best form of defence is attack.

the best form of defence isn't always attack oo. If you meet a team with speedy wingers and you go and attack them bumper to bumper you will only get yourself killed.


To the point you made, I totally agree. We have seen that sometimes Rohr favours a long ball approach and Onazi is not equal to a good passer by any stretch of the imagination and his hopeless long balls have led to numerous turnovers by the opposing team which could well be punished by a better opposition. Somehow on the sidelines you have Azubuike and Ogu, guys who thrive on long passes with brilliant passing stats but Onazi still starts, the spanish coach was quick to bench Xavi at the 2014 world cup because younger and better guys were coming through.


Also on the sidelines(potentially) we have Joel Obi(If he stays injury free). He is one of the players who can play the CMF/AMF role. He isn't world-class but he is very good. A midfield combo of Mikel-Joel-Ndidi will achieve a lot of things. First, Ndidi will have to fall back as an out and out DMF and we all know the guy can make those long passes to perfection and his shots from deep would also be an asset. Then sitting beside him as a pseudo-Dmf/Cmf would be Joel, but in actual reality we would have a dynamic system where Mikel can fall back into the Dmf/Cmf role when the pressure on us gets too much allowing Joel to go a little bit further where his speed will aid potential counter-attacks and the rest is history. A fully-fit Joel Obi is totally better than everything we can offer in the CMF role, he is better than Ndidi in a Cmf role, Onazi? Not even close

junnyjake:
As an AM, CM no but as a DM I think he's better.

how many DMFs do we have already?

junnyjake:
He's good.

But I think Rorh has failed to clearly define his role in the team.

he is clearly not better than these guys; Azubuike, Raheem Lawal, Joel Obi, Ajagun and/or Al Hassan