₦airaland Forum

chinese8107:
www.nairaland.com/attachments/4249283_kdfmany2_jpegdfde2667c666556c8db4b1b5e805a6d5
Every time I see the WZ551 I wonder why the designer cannot make the APC lower,as low as BTR-80,that can allow to carry troops on the top.no technical difficulty but pure design maybe they want people sit inside more comfortable but war is not comfortable.

Whaaaaaaaaaaat?

Ever heard about HE bombs?

Henry240:
The Mbombe 8 with such stats is already a better product. It would only get better with customer feed-back, hence my conviction. I wonder how much it costs?

What better stats?

Henry240:
Cool, clearing that up. I still do prefer the Mbombe 8x8.

"Hunter-Killer" ops while the gunner is engaging a target the commander is searching for the next.


The Mbombe 8 will change a bit as customer feed back is taken. Was surprised you are saying a prototype is already better than a vehicle which has undergone testing.

Henry240:
The CS/VP3 hasn't failed to deliver, far from it. It has performed well and is widely deployed across the country. My point is, with the ARA MRAP coming on stream, i don't see the Nigerian army going for the CS/VP3. They both are primarily APCs, while the Reva is a light, more mobile MRAP, a support QRF vehicle, if any word like this exists.

These are the stats for the ARA MRAP


DIMENSIONS :
LENGTH : 6800mm
HEIGHT : 2500mm
WIDTH : 2500mm
WHEELBASE : 3500mm
GROUND CLEARANCE : 250mm
GVW : 19 Ton
PAYLOAD : 3000kg
ENGINE : 218 @ 2200rpm
GEARBOX : Allison 6 Speed Automatic
APPROACH ANGLE : 40deg
DEPARTURE ANGLE : 60deg
MAX SPEED : 96km/h
FUEL TANK CAPACITY : 200 L


The Nigerian army operates an extensive test facility at the Styer vehicle manufacturing plant in Bauchi.



There are a number of IFVs which have reached their terminal life span, however i'm sure there are plans in place to replace them. Unlike the SANDF, we do not usually have "Projects", publicly known projects, example with the Badger.

The ARA MRAP is a light from the stats like the Indian vehicle nemesis posted recently. It can be in the role you described for the

A vehicle is the class of the Reva, Puma, Mamba etc would be better.


The Badger IFV is for mainly mechanized infantry. So different variants of it will be available for the fast moving infantry able to support them with direct fire support, indirect fire, anti-tank capabilities etc.

All the weapons mounted on the vehicles.


With Nigeria the IFVs in service or approaching the end of their life span can only offer direct fire. Different types not even enough to equip one battalion.

Henry240:
I'm saying it is better. I wasn't referring to what you were saying.


The 57mm is standard for Kazhakstan. Let me rephrase what i meant on the Turret. I'm saying the Mbombe 8x8 can carry a Turret that fires both the 30mm, a Coaxial 7.6mm and an ATGM. All in one module.


Do you need reading glasses? I made no mention of the SANDF. I'm saying the Mbombe is a better vehicle than the Patria.

The local remote turret?

The fact the Badger doesn't have a turret which fire those weapons in because of our doctrine. The missile variant turret sold to Malaysia has the Denel emak 30mm gun, the Ingwe missile and SS77.

Henry240:
I knew the Mbombe 8 would turn out to be a better vehicle than the Patria SANDF went for. It's an impressive piece of engineering. I've been looking for videos of the Mbombe 8x8 during tests but none are available.


The Mbombe already carries a more powerful gun in the 57mm, and it could also carry an all in one module like the BMPT terminator turret.

The Patria vehicle which the Badger is built upon is a great vehicle.

At AAD the Mbombe 8 was demonstrated with a 30mm automatic turret.

The Patria and Badger have: 120mm mortar, 60mm mortars, 105mm gun, 30mm guns,100mm gun, 40mm gun etc intergrated and tested on the vehicle.

My favourite being the 120mm Nemo mortar turret.


Note: The Mbombe 8 will have better marketing videos. As Denel still has to complete contracts with sub suppliers to complete have a price and market the Badger.

There's still another IFV in the Denel RG-41 IFV which has a high payload 10 tonnes.

patches689:
I was just reading up on the new Mbombe 8X8

Its stats are allmost identicle to the badger
http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=45118:mbombe-8x8-shown-at-aad-for-first-time&catid=50:Land&Itemid=105

The only difference being that it is slightly faster (4km). I think the clincher will be the armament.

Not necessarily.

Speed will depend on armour and turret.

Henry240:
I'll take a Nigerian vehicle over foreign any time. Even if we had 10 different MRAPs and an 11th which is of Nigerian origin is introduced we would still go ahead with it.


It is unlikely that we would see any more CS/VP3 MRAP acquisition. The American donated MRAPs are gifts, no harm done.


Moving forward, we would see Proforce Ara MRAPs, and probably more Reva purchases.

Sovereign control like I said in another thread?

Some types will be unavailable for training, deployment, reserve and exercises.

And these types are for motorized infantry. Driving around in cycles instead of introducing new capabilities like mechanized infantry.

Infantry fighting vehicles in their different variant. Able to absorb punishment(20mm atleast over the frontal arch), provide fire support(Direct and indirect), anti-tank capabilities, high mobility etc.

The CS/VP3 seems to have failed to deliver on it's promises. How's the Nigerian army test and evaluation facilities?

bidexiii:
#REVA MRAPS.

Wonder why Nigeria doesn't go for local production and customization of these to equipped all it's motorized infantry instead of introducing another types.

Then focused moved to building mechanized infantry and doctrine. Which is still lacking in many African nations.

africaken254:
there is a difference between an actual hanger and a shelter http://www.edlconstruction.com/aircraft_sheltersbckup.html

Ofcourse.


Was just asking.

nemesis2u:
i am really at loss of words at ur reply

anyways none of the competitors passed the competitive trials and the tender was cancelled.

army is expected to issue a new one again with almost same specifications.

total projected requirements 4000-5000 , maybe end up double the nos.

few months back they ordered 4000 light GP vehicles taking tally to 10000 plus

I compared to other vehicles like the many produced in Africa.


Cancelling tenders and delying isn't unusual in those parts of the world.

Look at the howitzer tender.

nemesis2u:
dont know

u should ask the govt. of Myanmar, Thailand, Indonesia, Philippines etc

while you are at it, u could also ask European , African , Latin American , middle east countries among others too
and inform/enlighten me ASAP

Not certain about military versions but Tata civilian bakkies(that's what we call pickup trucks in SA) aren't that rugged compared to Japanese and American bakkies. As operated by many farmers in SA.


Procurement at times isn't about going after promised military capabilities.

Some put sovereign control before anything else.

While some prefer "up front payments".

nemesis2u:
lol

the army tender specifies that the vehicle should be suitable for use as

1.Light Multipurpose Reconnaissance Vehicle (LAM)

2.Armed Reconnaissance Vehicle

3.LSV with Protection for Counter Insurgency Operations

4.Observation Post (OP) Party Vehicle

5.Field Artillery Tractor (FAT) for Para Field Artillery Regiments

6.Recce Vehicle for Gun Position Officer (GPO) for Artillery Regiments

7.Recce, Surveillance & Ghatak Platoon Vehicle for Infantry

8.Engineering Reconnaissance Vehicle

9.Common Utility Communication Vehicle

10.Ambulance Vehicle

11.Field Repair Team Vehicle

12.Para (SF) and BC/OC Parties of Para Field Regiment

13.Low Level Lightweight Radar for Air Defence Artillery

14.IGLA Carrier for Air Defence Artillery

15.Coverer Vehicle for Air Defence Artillery

16.LSV-based Light Radio Vehicle/Communication Rover for Signals

17.LSV for Tactical Satellite Terminals for Signals

18.Shelter for Unit Entity Vehicle for Signals

19.Cable Utility Vehicle for Corps of Signals

20.Shelter for Unit Field Wireless System for Corps of Signals

among others


i am curious
u said lower mobility . how did u come to the conclusion?

From the information you provided. I don't know if it's from one of those sites.

The officers and procurement augments who drew up those requirements...

nemesis2u:
https://motorbash.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Tata-LAMV-Light-Armoured-Mobility-Vehicle-pic-1.jpg

The TATA LAMV (Light Armoured Multipurpose Vehicle) can be deployed in troop transportation, reconnaissance, border patrol, convoy protection, light strike and urban warfare missions.

The all-composite detachable crew pod and V-shaped hull is based on 4x4 chassis.

The forward crew cab houses two while the troop section offers seating for four soldiers. The rear compartment provides space for carriage of equipment and cargo. The vehicle also contains a single roof hatch.

The modular design of the LAMV allows for future upgrades while maintaining operational superiority during its service life. The vehicle also offers low life cycle cost as it uses indigenous equipment and systems. The major subsystems share commonality with the other fleet of vehicles in service.

The driver and commander display systems enable observation for the crew. The crew pod can be installed with an electro-optic (EO) system, radio, global positioning system (GPS) and driver assistance camera.

The vehicle also integrates a navigation unit including a GPS and an inertial positioning system in the absence of GPS signals. The LAMV can be equipped with charge-coupled device (CCD) cameras, thermal imaging systems and laser range finder (LRF).

The LAMV comes installed with telescopic mast on the rear of its hull. The mast is equipped with surveillance systems. The advanced observation and surveillance systems fitted aboard the vehicle ensure the detection of various threats on all terrains and allow missions in urban warfare scenarios.

The open-top turret above the crew compartment of the LAMV is mounted with a 7.62mm or 12.7mm machine gun. The vehicle can also be optionally armed with a range of weapon stations and smoke grenade launchers.

The monocoque composite material pod mounted on high hardness steel bottom V hull provides a high degree of blast protection. The crew capsule is built using composite and ceramic armour systems to offer all-around protection in high threat environments.

The vehicle is provided with Stanag level II (a) and (b) blast protection and Stanag level II ballistic protection. The crew survivability is further enhanced with the inclusion of mine-blast protected seats. The vehicle can also be fitted with AFDSS (Automatic Fire Detection and Suppression System) as required by the customers.

The sides and forward parts of the turret offer NIJ level III ballistic protection for the gunner.

The LAMV is fitted with a 210hp water cooled turbocharged diesel engine coupled to an automatic transmission (five forward and one reverse). The engine provides the vehicle a high power to weight ratio of 25hp/t.

The vehicle features all wheel independent double wish bone type suspension. The self-levelling suspension with anti-roll bars provides comfort for the crew irrespective of the vehicle's load. The rubber-tired road wheels fitted with run flats and central tire inflation system (CTIS) enhance the mobility. The LAMV can achieve a maximum road speed of 105km/h. The 4x4 LAMV has a length of 5.5m, width of 2.5m and a height of 2.3m. The gross vehicle weight is 8,000kg and the payload carrying capacity is 1,500kg.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attachments/commercial-vehicles/1412257d1441778860-kestrel-lamv-tatas-defence-vehicles-detailed-4.jpg

Design similar to the RG32.

Lower mobility.


Border security is what this vehicles should mostly be utilised for.

Henry240:
This is the first time i'm reading countries leave their aircrafts in the open without cover. All in service aircrafts are properly stored or shaded in Nigeria. Here is a typical NAF base.

No hangers?

We are in Africa remember?

jakeporeshenko:
Can you elaborate on poor performance or share experiences SAAF had.

Poor performance in hot and high environment.

High level above sea level.


Hot temperatures.

jakeporeshenko:
- the multi mission helicopter AW-149 presented at Farnborough 2016 is the version with rocket launchers (70/80mm), 7.62 minigun pod or 12,7mm machine guns, door mounted 12,7mm machine guns and window mounted 7.62mm mimiguns and provision for air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles.
The AW149 can be used for: troops transport, MEDEVAC/CASEVAC, special operations, CSAR/SAR, close-air support and re-supply -
(Source: Leonardocompany.com)

Cause of the poor performance of the A109 in service with SAAF.


I'm unsure of this one.

nemesis2u:
east .................
china ?

You see! Geography was never my favourite subject. So I'll refrain from discussing locations and countries.

patches689:
Welcome to the team

#MAGA

When American foreign policy representives in Syria roll by chants turn to whispers.

Scared FSA men?

nemesis2u:
yes air to air missile
astra mk1 BVR AAM smokeless solid fuel rocket
astra mk2 BVR AAM dual pulse rocket motor with TVC (implemented barak 8 ) being tested in lab, awaiting testfire
un-named Long Range BVR AAM Solid Fuel Ducted Ramjet Propulsion (SFDR) being tested in lab, awaiting testfire
scramjet HSTV (military version) first test to be conducted in next 2 months. (not AAM) still tech. might end up in future AAM

all AAM missiles r first tested in ground to air mode , so kind of easy to change role if the design parameters are meet.
demand follows supply , all the tech is here , only thing is user requirement
yeah it kind of lags , lets see

south africa definitely has better portfolio of air to air missiles. will need to invest money /resources to remain competitive.

Demonstrating tech and improving.



The ground to air covers the motor and aerodynamics.


The seeker ground tests isn't really ground to air but simply looking in the sky for stuff that passes.

Aerial tests! Is where tech maturity is demonstrated.


There isn't really much competition. Though some engineers in the early 2000s "migrated" east and further.


Developing them alone is useless. Joint besides risks means or increases the potential of intergration on different platforms.

bidexiii:
Yeap............ . .

To the victor belongs the spoils of war.

nemesis2u:
india ?
no

dual pulse rocket motor with TVC
ramjet propulsion
Solid Fuel Ducted Ramjet Propulsion (SFDR)
scramjet propulsion tested successfully few weeks ago
etc

by the way south african test range facilities r great

Air to air missile?


India is still a bit behind the nations mentioned in the field of AAMs. Lots of learning happening in those parts of the world evident in the number of test firings.

Henry240:
Little Green men of the East. A publication recently describing them as providing the "facts on the ground".

I can bet two internets that an instruction was headed down for a complete "profile" for the General who planned this op somewhere.

Who said paratroopers are the precursor utilized in their primary role.

nemesis2u:
rough analogy , miniaturization of the various systems is one the toughest jobs around.

ur correct seeker tech., navigation tech., fancy propulsion tech. r the harder ones

The "back stuff" isn't that difficult.

Only countries like China, USA, Israel, South Africa, Russia and some NATO countries in Europe have developed or are developing fancy propulsion motors for AAM. Air breathing, dual pulse rocket motors etc

SA Pathfinders.


Wish the SANDF acquires a vehicle for the pathfinders. CSIR is displaying some RDRV.

nemesis2u:
lol it is easier to make a icbm than an air to air missile from scratch kind of

They can't be really compared.

Seeker technology is what most countries lack. Only a few countries maintain the skills.

Henry240:
The British are using Jackal SF vehicles. By every sense of the word, the Jackal or Al tharib is an SF vehicle. The fact they also use the Supacat doesn't negate the fact the Jackal is also an SF vehicle.


The fact about the matter is, the Americans in Syria look so common. It has nothing to do with footprint, but with the fact that some of those fancy vehicles are just what they are ................. Fancy & Expensive.

Which ones?


You know during op Savannah South Africans penetrated into Angola using every vehicle available. Civilian vehicle proved they were not rugged enough for long sustained ops.

Civilian off-road vehicles can be used for extended periods as they'll be carrying abnormal loads.

The vehicles used in that country are also unlikely to be ever retrieved. The bigger the force, the longer the tail.

Henry240:
The British in Syria are using standard SF vehicles.

Not really.

Mostly vehicles similar to one's used by rebels. Toyota land cruiser light vehicle kind of vehicles.

Not standard vehicles like the SuperCat.

patches689:
Thing is that guided mentions are a skills and capital intensive field.

They don't yet have the clout for that sort of thing

I might be surprised but we have a few in SA.


Majority of them left Denel in the early 2000s.

TrueHeart365:
you guys must find excuse sha.

how do you keep a low profile in a tense battlespace with the whole world knowing you are there already?

syria is a different ball game from iraq and afghanistan.

from the clips i've seen on the syrian war, everyone is packing light cos mobility is very important. even the russians

It's not an excuse.

Remember these guys don't want attention they just wanna get the job done and on to the next.

I think you might have seen other western sf units not using "standard vehicles" and flying their national flags.

heavier means your force on the ground will have a longer tail.

Henry240:
OFF-TOPIC


American Commandos in Syria. Always so unassuming. Where are all the fancy gear?

No Special Forces Vehicle, nothing fancy

Keeping a low profile.

patches689:
It would be an interesting comparison

Idk which is better between the RG and the Mbombe 3 both has pros and cons...

I think the 8x8 v Badger will be the same... Paramount makes good sh1t. I hope they can land a project with the SANDF... Maybe Biro

Wish they get into the guided munition sector(missiles, bombs etc).