₦airaland Forum

[quote author=Negro_Ntns link=topic=575932.msg7435137#msg7435137 date=1293730356]The baby is a good model to use in this case because everyone in the society started from that lifestage. Therefore recognising the significance and value of the baby as a resource is vital to capitalism; endagering quality of life for the baby in anyway threatens the institution of capitalism as a viable option for the community at large.[/quote]May I note that recognising the importance and value of the baby as a resource is not only vital to the economic system of capitalism but also to other systems that operate within any given society. In terms of economics ,The baby provides an additional unit to the labor force essential in sustaining intellectual and physical ability. An unfortuante consequence of natures cruel act of aging which diminishes both referenced abilities in older folk.

[quote author=Negro_Ntns link=topic=575932.msg7435137#msg7435137 date=1293730356]Global marketers know that per capita, the baby is far more valuable to capitalism than a 70yr old retiree, even though the senior is a productive element of the GDP and the baby is not. To destroy the institutions of capitalism in a country you target a certain segment of its population with an ad commercial (I prefer to call them ad propaganda) aimed at exploiting its level of consumption. In order words, you throw their demand and supply out of whack![/quote]In my opinion it is seriously difficult to achieve such in this day and age depending again on location. The only plausible means is the manipulation or restriction of information stimuli the baby/individual recieves as it progresses with any given society. Any society wishing to accomplish this most isolate its citizens from the present unstoppable access to information and free movement available to us today. Thereby disrupting the forces of demand/supply.

The Asian societies may be fooled into percieving they have achieved a slow down of this system but only in as far as it serves the short term objective.  The long run is where they will eventually hit a snag they are unprepared for in my opinion. The exponential effect of allowing even a small penetration of capitalist tendency and then assuming you are able to control its eventualities is not very bright thinking if you ask me. It either works or it doesn't work for you. This supports my previous statement on what each society defines as a measurement for the "quality of life"' it deems fit for its progeny.

tunnytox:
You see African countries are not ripe enough for the type of ethnicity free politics your are propagating, even in the US there are still some disgruntled elements who doesn't like Obama. also take the UK for example the Scotish and the Irish has always fought to get away from the grip of Westminster and in most cases they have been given several concessions. For instance many areas covering health, education and welfare services has been allocated to the Scotish executive to use their discretion hence the reason why University education is free in Scotland while most English students pay. Are you telling me that an English man will rule the Scotish executive? that's almost impossible, so if countries like the Uk are still playing some type of ethnic politics how in this world do you think Africans will have matured so quickly to the extent of allowing a 'foreigner' to rule over them.

I have some few Ivorian friends and I'm relying on what they said that Quattara is not an Ivorian, I believe if a significant proportion of Ivorians believe this especially those in the South i don't see how Quattara can be accepted by these set of people. However, I accepted that gbagbo has not done enough too for his people but at the end he might still seem to be a lesser evil compared to Quatarra as far as many ivorians are concerned.

You should ask your Ivorian friends, What constitutes an Ivorian by the way since Ivory coast is barley 60 years in the making. How do they define their national identity.  Out of fear from incoming immigrants They tried to consolidate their identities when they introduced the concept of[i] Ivorite[/i] but came out on the otherside even more silly than they started with underestimating the weakness of the balkanized lines drawn by colonists as a poor reflection of inter relations many small natios had with each other post colonialism

Plurality within any society is inevitable and even somewhat natural in a sense. The idea is to find common ground in what would move your society forward and harness that power instead of bickering over irrelevant man-made cultural, liguistic and identity norms. No excuses anymore for htis old fools.  Tackling the fundamental questions of education, hunger, poverty, innovation and the likes creates an organic consensus between people. A hungry irish man is the same as a hungry english man but if both are full and content they can actually cooperte with each other putting minor differencies aside to build great power and great influence.

Why do you think the South Africans have been successful so far after the Apatheid regime ended or don't you think they are made up of several so called tribes. They have been able to consolidate their power despite their differencies in aspects of culture, language and likes in a combined effort to create change and sustain it.

You say we are not ripe yet my brother. We are just plain uneducated and silly if you ask me. A mind without a light cannot see.

[quote author=Negro_Ntns link=topic=575932.msg7434604#msg7434604 date=1293724601]Am I deviating from topic?

Economics is not a stand alone aspect of society. It is not the beginning or the end but the means by which the beginning is sustained to accomplish the end. Do you disagree?

So in the baby question, I already established the beginning and predicted an end that will occur at a time to come in future, I am now probing the means (the economics) that are available to sustain that baby through life. I am doing so as a follow up to your response. . . . I do not qualify your opinion. . . just an engagement to reveal the wisdom of resource distribution, whether it is private or public.[/quote]Then first define what you percieve as the definition of capitalism because it has broad implications and there is no necessary consensus around its definition. We can follow up from there by then discussing within that context its support or lack there of, before expanding into other aspects of resource distribution in reference to providing for society and babies in particular.

My definition of capitalism encompasses the freedom and ability for the individual to own, manipulate and control natures given means of production to be held and operated in private hands for initial individual benefit which in turn creates an inevitable ripple effect of providing for and benefitting the public as a whole.

The baby question would then fall under resource allocation in the context of what each SOCIETIES perception and agreement of what measures or quantifies "Quality of life" for such an individual in society is supposed to be

From my perspective the need to provide for this baby originates from an initial individual problem based on self preservation, self interest and self realization before it carries over to any definition of a social agreeement of people to pursue similar goals.

tunnytox:
Finally the saying of the former senegalese president is a typical saying of a slavery orientated imperialist puppet, the fact remains that no country can trade with itself but if you stood your ground and suffer a little the time will come when you'll realise other means of achieving prosperity with or without these imperialists.

Ah the Mugabe arguement. Right right. Cause his regime is not full of the same corrupt people. I don't understand the reasoning. One would permit his own people to steal from him than a foreigner. If our African leaders were Angels and not men I would agree with you 100%. However knowing fully well that they too prey on your ignorance, tribalism, ehtnic rambling and detest of people who do not look like you to consolidate power should clue you into what you percieve as the ultimate solution.

Men are not to be trusted and powers should be seperated, checked and balanced at all times. Only possible if the people are fully engaged. The people can only be fully engaged if they are fully aware. They can only be fully aware if they are fully educated and are not sidelined by irrelevant cultural issues such as tribalism which do not further the ecomonomical stability of any nation. Take a clue from South Africa, China and Brazil

A wise man learns from his enemies so he is not doomed to repeat their folly.

tpia1:
^^long meaningless post.

the following two photos are less than 1/2 black:


https://img405.imageshack.us/img405/9126/byrdj.jpg


https://thestudyofracialism.org/forum/bpwk/obrien.jpg


others to ponder [mostly 1/2 black save for tiger woods]:

[img]http://www.whitehouse.gov/assets/images/tigerwoods_blogPS-0594.jpg[/img]


mali ancestry

[img]http://www.cinebel.be/portal/resources/movieperson/12712/12712.jpg[/img]


senegal ancestry

[img]http://www.megamodelagency.com/img_nouvelle.php?filename=1862[/img]https://img828.imageshack.us/img828/7287/83553379.jpg

The expert picture spammer.

See only what you want to from pics huh?


What you numskulls fail to understand is you cannot prove what you are posting. Just playing around with pics and sliding in subtle suggestions based on your narrow peanut brained interpretation of what you think you percieve.

construct your arguement properly next time. What you posted doesn't imply anything in particular.

In other words not every relationship with one non somali i.e european and one somali produce the pics you "suspiciously" post
The Somali population much like the African American populations carry genotypes that are non African derived. It is therefore plausible in BOTH POPULATIONS for each of the groups to produce individuals noted in your picture spams.

However the entire Somali population cannot be noted as a mixed population because based on genetics this has not been substantiated(FACT), similar to African American populations as well.

There are somali/Arab mixes and somali/european who do not fit into the gradients of the pics you posted. If this is true, Ergo your assertions are false unless they occur in every instance. DUMMY!!!!

tunnytox:
Quatarra has always been a problematic figure in Ivorian politics, he was allowed to serve as a prime minister just for the sake of peace. Many Ivorians still believes he's a Burkinabe, also the fact that he was formally part of the IMF sum it all up isn't it obvious that was the real reason why the UN decided to recognise him so quickly? To enable them execute their austerity measures in Ivory coast so as to get a better grip of their economy and resources.

What are the problems has he created by the way. Please enumerate a few for my edification will you.

Obama is the son of Kenyan. I guess the Americans were stupid to allow him actually think he was American and elect him President. His Father being from Kenya obviously weighs in his ability to govern a country right, His alterior motives of course is to bring down the American people down to their knees and by doing so embezzle funds and send back to Kenya so they can become a great nation. Right Right. I get your point.

My friend you are not reasoning properly. Him being of Burkinabe origins has nothing to do with his ability to govern or lead the Ivory coast. you are buying into the tribalism and ethnnocentricity of what is plagueing African countries today.

As regards your conspiracy theory on his work at the Worldbank/IMF. Nothing more than conspiracty theory.
Please go back and educate yourself properly so you can imporve your analytical abilities.

This is not an insult. its a suggestion.

tunnytox:
I disagree with you Nigeria has its own problems medlling into this Ivorian issue is a lose lose situation for Nigeria, the UN should not have taken sides, Quatarra could go to court if he believed he won. I don't think Quatarra is even an Ivorian most Ivorians I know detest him no one want a foreigner to rule over them, I'm sure Quatarra is a potential imperialist tool to milk Ivorians of their resources.

Definitely not a loose loose situation for Nigeria if you care to look a little deeper into the macro implications. What court is Quattarra going to. theone in Ivory coast. Right right

In reference to his ivorianes. I guess serving as prime minister isn't enough to convince you of his loyalties or working in the IMF which obivously is a lucrative enough job not to tempted to steal resources huh

[quote author=Negro_Ntns link=topic=575932.msg7431464#msg7431464 date=1293668028]Morpheus,

Improved living standards; inherited wealth and prosperity. . . . . what are these relative to the fundamentals of life and death?

A child is born today and will definitely die sometime in a future date - however far into the future that date maybe - . . . . in what ways can the society and the community of mankind support and sustain quality of life for this new born baby?[/quote]Don't know why you are deviating from your topic. The last part of your topic poses the question is capitalism a sustainable system in the pursuit of happiness and fulfillmet. I contend that it is but reference that its definitions should be continiously reviewed and revised of course within the context of its core principles. Didn't think we were talking about philosophical issues on existence and the meaning of life. Thought we were talking ECONOMICS

tunnytox:
I am with you on this you see the international communities or should i say imperialists like France , the EU and the UN seem to have an hidden agenda, they shouldn't have taken any side by backing Quattara. Any election any where in this world can be disputed and not until all legal means have been exhausted no one can just be declared a winner. How can the UN just recognise Quatarra even when its obvious that the election is disputable? I think they have a hidden agenda. Lets wait for few more years before wikileaks reveal the secret behind this Ivorian saga

everyone has a hidden agenda. Its called "national interest". how do you read that as a hidden agenda.

The FACT. I repeat the fact still remains that the greatest prosperity Ivory coast ever experienced was when it was in coperation with France economical. Millions of immigrants flooded the country. Hmmm Wonder why?. what has Gbagbo done for his beloved nation. Still fighting huh?

You guys remind me of a saying by a one time senegalese president regarding doing business with the so called imperialist "Give me poverty by my own hand than wealth with slavery. Don't you get it dumbasses. The two situations are slavery in of itself. The latter is the lesser of the two evils and gives you a chance to creae change inevitabely because of the creation of a middle class.

ROSSIKE:
morpheus24 said:

You mean ''the western powers''.

Spare us this ''international community'' horseshiit.

I won't even dignify your response only refer you to go look up the word international.

superboi:
morpheus24 ,
Also go and find out the people who constituted the electoral panel too? where does Mr Bakayoko head of the electoral panel comes from? It is very sad that even we as Africans like to sterotype ourselves, this is not about a sit tight African leader but about the failure of the international community to help the government of Gbagbo flush out rebels 8 years ago. Now what gives them the moral authority to tell that same government to hand over to the rebels in an elections that was rushed and is now disputed.(note Thambo Mbeki said told them that in 2006 when the agreement for this election was being written and agreed upon that the only possible outcome could be more conflict, The UN disagreed and now we can see the result.

We can continue this bickering by continuing to point fingers. Please tell me how a 'political party" would introduce laws to intentionally disqualify a party representatives based on not having Ivorian parents and this same individual served Cote divoire as a finance minister and Prime minister in the past.

The international community has searched Quattara's past and favor him to lead that country noting that Gbagbo has had nothing to offer them since the majority of Ivorians are too block headed to disgard ethnic differences in favor of a wiser choice.

Its time for him to go

hartimo:
I don't know what your trying to get at? Guessing im to slow for you huh

Probably are

let me give out the hint again. The catch word is in DEGREE.

In other words there are products of West African and Europeans that produce children who are able to fall into the gradients of the pictures depicted in the African American community as well yet no one explicitly refers to AA's as a mixed set of people.

Noting similarities with AA's a sampling of Somalians show a 15% west Asian gene pool floating around in their total make up which by probability can account for the picture spams photo's depicted but in reality do not reflect the majority populous of the country as is observed in African Americans


Clear enough now.

Genetics, Anthropology, History and population genetic 101 not mumbo jumbo made up stuff.

READ MY PEOPLE. READ!!!!!

Beaf:
I really think you coat Gbagbo in words that are too nice and address him like he has some honour. You are too kind.
In my opinion, any African that condemns half of their country as second class citizens in an apartheid concept, is no better than a slave trader and deserves to scunned, spat on and treated like dirt.

Gbagbo waded through blood to get where he is and is an example of the sort of despot that has brought repeated shame to Africa. He falls in the same category as Bokassa, Idi Amin and Mobutu Sese Seko.

Mobutu!!

Be nice. Gbagbo and his cronies are a product of the Ivorite. Its not unusual since prosperity brought in a huge influx of Immigrants into ivory coast during Felix Houphouet's regime catapulting non indigenes number to greater than 25% of the population.

The reality on the ground now is he and his cronies have no vision for their country cept how to divie what is left of their natural resources.

Quattara is a product and cadet of Houphouet's regime which was extremly friendly with the French and fosterd more liberal economic activity western style. laurent is more of a socialit-trade unionist type. Regardless he has no sustainable vision for the country and I have never seen an y inclination to convince me of the fact.

Therefore based on this it is time for him to move along.

War is imminent as usual. Not new in African affairs.

Lets see how this plays out. Gbagbo should step down in my opinion. Not as a result of being labeled a weakling but compassion to his people who have suffered enough.

He didn'tdo anything with the power when he held it. Why stay ony if not as a show of ego and not principle

Horus:
Yes Allassane Ouattara lost the election so he need to leave Gbagbo alone, its that simple. And in case of attack from Nigeria, Ivory Coast as a souverain nation have the right of self-defence, its that simple.

Please tell me how a court that is full of Gbagbo supporters and is not independent of its executive branch any better. Please man! Please!

otokx:
Nigeria should not get involved in Ivory Coast wahala

As the leading ecomog force we are obligated to do so plus we are banking on  asserting our presence in West African affairs once again since this dwindled in after the liberia fiasco and Nigeria has been relatively off the radar since then.

Gbagbo should step down regardless of the constitutionality of his claim to power. The courts are not independent and these guys are playing a power struggle game which has the lives of people at stake. Gbagbo backers are not happy to see a so called "burkinabe" hold seat in power and have been doing everything possible to delay and cling unto power stemming from the Ivorite. Ivory Coast has sufferd enough from the power hungry selfish tribalistic intentions of a few aged men who lack any vision for their countries in the 21st century and simple manipulate laws and rules to further selfish agendas.

If he truly is a man of the people he will think of their welfare first before his. I am in support of forcing him out. Don't relly like Quattra that much but he has proven to serve his people in the past well and seems more enlightened with democratic values and a forward thinking economics background which is why the US seem to be backing him at this time.

Thabo Mbeki did it for the good of his people and country. Why can't any of these other numskulls( ofcourse based on the gurantee that they will not face prosecutions afterwards)

What we are witnessing is cyclical and occured sometime in the 80's in this country and in the 90's in the Asian market. The only difference in the dynamics is that the world is more networked in terms of globalization and capital flow in and out of economies which magnifies and issues and creates more difficult solutions.

Was listening to Gordon Brown and may buy the book he has out talking about continious Global networking vs Protectionism and austerity measures which is usully an outcome when things get rough. Talking about pushing through the threshold instead of backing out.

I tend to believe he is right. Capitalism so far has been witnessed and tested to be the best system that has moved "MANKIND" forward improving his living standards and creating wealth and prosperity as a consequence. It is true there are side effects of thsi system but I doubt there wouldn't be in any other so called adpoted system. I believe no country practices true Capitalism which is according to the balancing act that is necessary to continue to redefine it.

If Nigeria does not seriously clean up house and forge ahead with the utmost of speed whcih is a prerequisite in this age of easy transfer of information they will be left seating on the sides lines and passed over. The South Africans, rwandans and ghanians are taking note.

Rather than beating our chest as the giant of Africa obviously only in terms of size leading to a greater military force,w e should take these new competitors seriously and outperform them. My two sense , I mean cents lol

Here we go again.

I think I will stay out of this one but for the few below questions which will seperate the DAFT people from the "Cerebral"

What constitutes full black. Genetics, Skin tone, haire texture or looks?
Is Halley Berry Caucasian or Black?(Please note her African ancestry is derived from West Africa)
Is she mixed?
To what[b] degree [/b] is she of either ethnicity ?
To what degree would that make her child?

is her child therefore Caucasian?
By what definition is the child considered such considering degrees of caucasian genetics in her?

After considering the above anagram( the hint is in bold for some of you slow cats!) go and research the genetics, looks and skin tone of an average somali and revert back to the topic  question again

If can't answer then what you guys are doing is criminal in the sense of skewing perception based on picture spamming.

Morpheus says  "FREE YOUR MIND"

[quote author=oyinda. link=topic=573412.msg7399737#msg7399737 date=1293169907]says who?
South Africa is an African country just as much as Botswana or Zimbabwe is. I don't know what your on about.[/quote]South Africa is a first world country with its major cities surrounded by third world semi developed townships

The rest of Africa excluding the Magreb does not have the same set up including Zimbabwe and Botswana

[quote author=Ileke-IdI link=topic=573412.msg7399423#msg7399423 date=1293157833]What's your reasoning behind that?

I dont want to assume.[/quote]Compare apples with apples and oranges with oranges.

The historical, political and economic beginnings of SA should not be compared with other sub saharan countries. They just are not in the same league sorry to say.

Relatively speaking South Africa should not be counted as an African country

The best country in terms of good government, infrastructure, politics and per capita income is actually Botswana in fair comparison to other sub saharan African countries.

youngies:
Have you also considered that there were children who were believed to be ogbanje then , but after persistent parent's appeals which were backed up with huge gifts and sacrifices, the child may decide to stay back and live to old age?

Right right If I believe that I might as well also believe in Amadioha the God of thunder that persistently struck people down with lightening when he felt like it don't you think?

??

youngies:
Are you suggesting that the stories of children coming back with body marks was not true?

I was hoping to get a clarification of why it happened or what it was that happened back in those days

This is precisely what I am suggesting. There is no evidence to support the exact body marks other than possible birth marks usually duplicated in related offspring.

if this were true why is this not repeated in present times to assert the myth,

Sorry guys haven't replied this thread in a while. My research was extremely limited by the lack of information I could gather on the subject matter in Nigeria  However I have discovered thatthe internet is abound with information concering Ogbanje's and sickle cell correlations.

I am therefore not alone in the aobservaton that the two situations may be related.

There is in fact information out there on studies that have been conducted to observation situations which make the scenarios both plausible and possible.


Symptoms Ogbanjes exihibited are extremely similar to that of sickle cell patients

Chronic illnesses with convulsions and fever like states
Death at puberty (if left untreated)
Reoccurence in subsequent offspring leading to the iyi uwa( Come and go) myth

see below references:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogbanje
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11286364
http://sicklecellanemia.ca/about_sicklecell.php