₦airaland Forum

cap28:
morpheus you are very fortunate that the moderator did not post my full response to your earlier post - i dare you to go into my posts and read it.

its obvious why he removed yours and not mine. The inability to articulate yourself properly requires parental supervision

cap28:
for the sake of brevity i will summarise my position with regard to all the stuff you have been putting up here:

your main grouse with farrakhan is that he is wealthy, influential and respected by african americans for the courageous stand he has taken against one of the most tyrannous govts in the world.

Ha!. How did he make that wealth? or better still what society accorded him the ability to make that wealth. Haven't ever seen him ploughing the earth for his sustenance or has he built a house with his own two hands. What bank does he put his money in. The bank of the nation of islam  Iguess Right right

Like his mentor before him, His wealth is derived from the backs of others and not his intelligence. His ability to decieve and steer up resentment without. A chalatan is a chalatan is a chalatan. Tell him to move back to mother Africa where his ancestors originate from or better yetconfiscate a chunk of the Us and declare his independence from his opressor or is he still waiting for the space ship with the evil scientist named Yacub to come take him and his people away.
Wealth , men please. !!

cap28:
your low self esteem and terrible inferiority complex as well as your undying and pathetic unrequited love for the white man has convinced you that no black man should ever dare challenge a white man no matter how tyrannous.

Completely off point with no direction. Racial politics again. To challenge authority is different from using religious gibberish to mask his inability to solve his peoples problems. A pseudo Malcolm X wanna be who is too cowardly to stand up like X did and take a bullet for living and dieing by his convictions with the courage to admit when something is not true even if it means turning your back on your own brotherhood. Now thats courage I admire.

cap28:
have you asked yourself where you would have been if african americans like farrkhan had not stood up to challenge the white supremacist govt of the US.

Asking me to respect an organization and a leader whose ideology is based on pseudo islamic tenants filled with out of this world space odyseeys and whose origins of African American people are based on fairy tales is unintelligable. There are far better examples of notable individuals who pioneered civil rights  that carry much more weight

cap28:
speaking of picking up arms to challenge a govt -

why are you living off the hard won freedom fought for you by african americans - why arent you in nigeria taking up arms against those criminal puppets that have destroyed nigeria and caused you to run away from nigeria to live in another man's land?

I was waiting for you to leave the UK and form a militant militia group with weapons supplied by Kaddafi. Let me know when you are succesful.

cap28:
i ask you again can you refute anything that farrakhan said in that video clip? i double dare you to even try.

I answer you clearly again. The objective is not to REEFUTE points about building complexes, finding desert water and disgruntled militant groups within the US. The objective is to present and intepret the evidence within a wider context in an attempt to truly educate people on . Blue eyed pork eating devils and one liners like "white supremacist, demons and so on belong in boogeyman fairytales for children.

If you like pseudo religious black supremacist groups so much you should check out black hebrew israelites. they are even more warped with their brain damaged skulls caused by an oppressive states of mind[quote][/quote]

MandingoII:
you are rather silly and unenlightened on world matters.

Stop posting!

HA!

notice that was only one "HA". it was hard to keeping laughing.

MandingoII:
Like you just wrote something profound.

you a SELLOUT too. Waive a few dollars in your face and you will sell out your momma

keep acting like you know what that word means.

What did I sell out to. Having a brain? Being able to reason, think independent,

Ah yes Now i know I sold out to speaking ebonics, scratching my azz while munching on a serving of hot chitlings.

When will AA's like you learn that education is not an exclusive invention of so called "White people".

NEXT!!

DeeJay20:
CAP28 LOL! Why do these guys keep on challenging facts and proofs!
Anyway its sometimes good to knowm that we still have alot of brain-washed
people online lol,

CAP28 keep up the good work!

Facts and proof is one thing. What you do with it is another.

Marinate on that a little will ya?

Aha therein lies the bone of contention - you are jealous that Farrakhan desires to wield power and influence like the white man - obviously in your warped mind you feel only white men deserve to do so, Farrakhan is a leader, a man who is not afraid to stand up and speak the truth , a teacher and a courageous man - therefore he has earned the right to wield power and influence - why dont you question why the US govt is monopolised by white millionaire elitists who regard people like you as sub human, why dont you question why these people are only interested in championing the causes of billionaire oligarchs and banking cartels - i would advise you to focus on your real enemy rather than attacking farrakhan - be gone. [i][/i]

Power is not the basis but the underlying issue of  how it is used is what is in contention hear my so called learned friend. If men like Farrakhan seek to use the power to educate and influence by warping facts and interjecting false ideologies in the same sense as how your "IMPERIALISTS" use it, He is no better than them nor anyone in particular who tries to prop up their own people, ideologies, race, ethnicities in the hopes of wielding control without consent. There is nothing wrong in taking pride in who you are and defending your way of life in so far as it does not subjugate or is inconsiderate of others lives. This is the primary issue or subject matter that should be confronted. Wraping it round religious and racial propaganda is uneducated.

If he is discontent with the society he lives in and wished to return back to the state of nature he is free to move to the kalahari desert and join up with the bushmen there who are subject to no of these matters regarding loans, liabilities, racism and the likes. Who is stopping him may i ask?

He provides no alternatives to the meaning of the words justice, fairness, equity or peace within the contexts of contracts with society. I dare say even given the same POWER as his opponents  will be far worse  an authoritarian than Kadaffi himself, metting out the same kind of punishments to people who do not believe in his ideas.

If you have been paying attention, you would have noticed by now that I have never thrown my support to any side in particular  in regards to issues concerning syndicates of all sorts . Simply stating a problem is not going to solve it. Telling us that your alternative will be better than the one already in place without explaining is neither convincing nor is playing race politics any closer to the truth.

I repeat a respectable man would pic up arms and fight to the death if he felt his freedom was being encroached upon regardless of how powerful he feels his opponent is. Preaching "not teaching" sermons on the monster white boogey blue eyed devil is for kindergarten kids to hear.

Oh the way there are several solutions I can offer regarding what you say I should concentrate on only i doubt any of it would make sense to you cause your mind is pretty made up on what you want to think or feel, anything outside of that is as usually pure white man azz kissing. An issue of different schools of thought.

Won't waste my time anymore

cap28:
Its very easy to find out who is telling the truth - just research the issues raised by Farrakhan in that video clip i posted and you will find out who is really telling the truth.

The truth about what?  Who does Farrakhan think he is informing with his pseudo religious infused geo political rubbish about a dictator finding water in the desert, building aparment complexes in Libya and militant groups in the US. Who is his audience? Project kids on the streets, Gangsters, Rappers,  disgruntled working, Middle  or upper class AA's, religious nuts. What is his point?, that one day there will be some civil war in America and in his lala land he will lead his people to the promise land. He'snot the first neither will he be the last to continue to perpetuate this stupidity.

Majority of these class of people are not interested or have very short attention spans when it comes to these matters. The rest of the American population are outside the sphere of his influence or could care less what their CIA does, as long as they can sleep at night without hearing War planes roaring through their skies

What Farrakhan is doing is simply feeding into his communities' fears and discontent as he has done in the past without really saying anything substantive. A chalatan no better than an unscrupulous televangelist who basks in his own false sense of intelligence and just likes to hear himself speak. 

If his movement is still fighting for a nation then they should take up arms including himself and stand opposed, at least if they loose, they die an honorable death like Malcolm, otherwise he needs to keep quiet and stop his "brother kadaffi" rubbish.

cap28:
the above argument doesnt make sense - the nation of islam would be the last people to know about the FBI's visits with Malcolm X - the FBI's modus operandi was to approach two warring enemies seperately and try to pit them against each other - thats how they destroyed the black panthers, they used to write letters to individual members and pretend as if these individuals were informants - the letters would then "accidentally" be posted to various black militants within the organisation in order to foment chaos and then the FBI would stand back and watch these militants slug it out or kill each other - its the age old tactic of divide and conquer which is still being used on black people to date.

You are rehearsing historical documents again. Let me clue you in. I am well aware. My earlier post requires intiuitive deduction. The point  being made involves the nation of islam becoming aware "AFTER THE FACT" that these tapes indeed existed. Those speeches made by Farrakhan in my earlier post were long long after Malcolms death in which he STILL accused Mr. X of being a traitor who needed to be dealt with in the political and need I say economic interest of  the so called "nation". Really!!!

Lets go further to assume the nation just found  just yesterday that the tapes existed, no recognition by the nation to this fact that MR. X would not and did not sell out his compadres, no clear cut absolution for Malcolm yet the buffoon has the effrontery to stand up on a pulpit and accuse the US government of covert and overt operations.

The real fact of the matter concerns the ability and desire of wanting to wield absolute "POWER'and "INFLUENCE" without "decent" or opposition over people. Something the US govt as well as the nation of islam "including" Mr so called louis is guilty as charged for. There is truth in this matter.

JeSoul:
Brother, I know I have already told you that I highly regard your knowledge of history and world politics though I sharply disagree with you on almost everything. You're still my dude

Hey see toasting!


Cap28, I dey jealous oh, na so your "fact checking" bring you babes.

HEHEHEHEHEHE!!!

cap28:
morpheus if we are to follow your warped logic in which you beleive that Farrakhan is not to be trusted because it was ALLEGED (never proven) that he may or may not have had something to do with Malcolm X's murder then i think you also need to also treat with extreme suspicion anything you hear from the US govt because there is overwhelming evidence which implicates the CIA (acting under orders from the US govt) in the deaths of Martin Luther King Jnr, John F Kennedy and Bobby Kennedy.

Has the CIA's alleged involvment in the deaths of those men prevented you from beleiving and following anything that you are told by the US govt?  If not why then is it a problem for you to accept the truth of what Farrakhan says especially when everything he has said in that video is based on concrete factual evidence?

Warped logic.

A says something and says C is a liar. He then tells B to believe and agree to everything A SAYS

C says something and says A is a liar. He then tells B to believe everything C says.

In my humblest of opinions, The algorithim should conclude that either one is lieing and the other telling the truth, Both are telling the truth or both are lieing. I choose the last conclusion cause given all the additional facts and a  more holistic assessment. All of them are full of excuse my language "B.U.L.L. Poo"

cap28:
There is also a mountain of evidence implicating the FBI in the setting up of a secret  task force whose major objective was to neutralise and crush militant black groups in america in the 1960s.  That taskforce was headed up by J Edgar Hoover and it was known as COINTELPRO.
It is a well known fact that this task force used informants, infiltrators, agent provacateurs etc to get to their target which in this instance was Malcolm X. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcZpzgOvogU

You have Farrakhan admitting they had a hand (doesn't matter if it was direct or indirect) in Malcolm's death yet you come out with the above new conspiracy that the FBI murdered him. STRANGE CHARACTER YOU ARE!

As far as those taskforces, Yes they existed. There is even a taped  conversation with FBI agents and Malcolm X after he was expelled trying to convince him to turn againts the nation (obviously capitalizing on his weakened state) and he refused.

Yet your same Farakhan doesn't make that FACT!. Say it again. FACT!. say it one more time. FACT! that he refused to co-operate with them known, rather branding him a traitor. Traitor to a cover up eh!,


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z4giEVP57c


PLEASE!


Rigth cap 28 right. Which is it Farakhan, the nation, the FBI, Godzilla, Space aliens, hired mercenaries, the boogeyman ?

A relic from the civil rights era who talks about hypocrisy yet is part of an organzation, fully present and supportive of an action that destroyed one within its own organization who raised "decent" with what he beleived was an unjust act within the nation of islam. No negotiations with MR. X, just a quick assasination.

Right right we should really listen to people like this

A messiah of destruction and a prophet of doomsday prophecy's spawned in the 20th century, existing in the 21st century as a troglodyte who babbles about America's destruction.


FOOL!. America's demise is an inevitable event of equations that are  played out in an ever revolutionary cycle that leads to eventual evolutionary advancement of the Human Dilemma. Like its predecessors it will reign and will fade. Nothing he is saying is new nor informative.

There were great civilizations before America, there will be plenty after,
There were world powers before America, There will be world powers after America.
There were agrieved and exploited people before America, there will be the same after its depature.

Irrelevant rantings of a man who is out of his time. Another John the baptist of the 21st Century.

Hmmmmm, and the world still turns,



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou99aOFzup4

TO THE VICTOR GOES THE SPOILS!!

ALL HAIL THE IMPERIAL ARMY OF "ROME", Sorry "THE WEST"!!!

cap28:
In the country of the blind, a one eyed man is king!!!
Two blind mice following a one eyed fool, no wonder many of you never progress in your lives.

Whoah!. Did you come up with that all by yourself. Remarkable!

All Hail CAP28,  the Messiah of the illterate people of Africa!, the King of FACTS and true PAN Africanism, All Hail the liberator of the Dark Continent from the ignorance the IMPERIAL ARMY has cunningly propagated on civilizations of developing nations.

We grovle at your magnificence

cap28:
^^^^^
sorry mate but i dont debate with schizophrenics, i take my mental well being very seriously, but feel free to carry on this debate with the voices in your head

A fitting response for a narrow minded representative of "truth seeking" and "African pride" living in the UK . Chuck it to the paranormal.

Right right!

cap28:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

YAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWN!!!!!

now get back to picking up some passengers schizo

STATE THE IRRELEVANCE AND INCONSISTENCES OF MY RESPONSES.!!!!

cap28:
Hahahahaaha so you're an "intelligent" schizo eh hahahahhahaha

you are something else you know - do you know where the vast majority of schizos like yourself are? In prison or mental institutions and im beginning to think that might be where you might be typing all of this your junk from.

Its either that or you are probably one of those broken down nigerian men in america who ended up working as cab drivers after collecting a pile of worthless "qualifications" from some backwater colleges and now out of frustration you spend your time tapping out junk on your computers from the comfort of a mini cab office.

"right right" hahahahhahahaha!!!! pal you're a comedian you know, i can tell from your spelling, and poor grammar that you have never held down a job which involves the application of written or speaking skills, no right thinking employer in the west would hire you, this is why you sound so frustrated, you cant understand why despite your vast "knowledge" nobody bothers with you.

Keep deluding yourself that anything you have said up there makes sense, keep regurgitating junk you learnt on your long distance correspondence courses, keep pretending as if you have any idea whatsoever about america's foreign policy, focus on doing what you do best carry on being the grateful uncle tom who works a 24 hour backbreaking shift as a cab driver and bends over backwards kissing whitey's ar.se for being allowed to live in his country as a member of his underclass.

Obviously you didn't grasp the schizo reference properly. Goes to show,

Cab driver. Truly laughable. Its your mind trying to intepret what you cannot understand. Pot shots and innuendos do not make you seem more intelligent only demonstrates your confusion. They again hold no water. (its okay if it makes you feel better though)

Ha ha grammar. You obviously don't know where next to box me into so you attack grammar. Childish antics

let me summarize for you:

Examples of moral dilemmas stated  have to do with understanding philosophical questions as regards how the US views the world and shapes its foreign policies in terms of decisions making processes.

Economic dilemmas have to do with how it is able to continue to stay on top as an economic power house which directly affects its foreign policy and relations with other countries in terms of gaining access to resources worldwide. A requirement to sustain its might as a world power. No different from any World power that existed in the past nor will exist in the future. (Therefore what are you informing us about that we already didn't know.)

Political dilemmas deal with its democratic principles in relation to other systems of governance and how it chooses to influence those systems in its national interest. (Whats the information you are giving to us that is enlightening us again?)

All these will be reflected in its media coverage, Diplomatic relationship to allies, covert ops and dealings with each region it attempts to influence. DING DING!!

PLEASE TELL me what part of the above is outside the sphere of what your THREAD is about. A simpleton would sum up the complexities of the situation in words like "IMPERIALIST" "WHITEY" "UNCLE TOM", "SELL OUT". He would further try to bolster his position by calling into question his opponents methods and relevance by setting up strawman arguements.

I have stated the relevance of my responses. Show that they are not consistent with your thread.

cap28:
^^^^
keep tying yourself into knots discussing issues that have nothing to do with this thread, you are one of those people who are so insecure that when a discussion is not going your way you veer off into talking about rubbish which has nothing to do with the original topic, good luck with that, you definitely have the personality traits of a schizophrenic.

Oh sorry you a HISTORY PROFESSOR/Wikileaks commentator.   We were talking about US foreign policy, allies and strategies for Arab nations in relation to Russia, China  right?
 
This exercise has never been about getting ones way like a fussy infant. ITS CALLED CRITICAL THINKING. Once it becomes taxing for you to decipher the questions posed to you in relation to your thread, it is immediately written of as schizo rantings. My dear fellow I can weave every single example I have posed to you into the subject matter you so well claim to be fully versed on.

The real problem is with people like you who can't really think outside the box past your "fact gathering" prowess and finger pointing antics. You come on here and flaunt yourself as a master of  a subject matter with critical thinking skills able to incorporate all sides to a particular issue and label everyone else who does not share your anxieties as blind and mental when in reality the rigorous effort involved in fully analyzing a situation in its broadest scope becomes taxing for you when you cannot grasp concepts outside the sphere of your knowledge base.

Right right, rubbish it is then.


Oh by the way,  speaking of "other subject matters".  Did you know there is a strong correlation between Schizophrenics and highly gifted/intelligent people?


Something to ponder outside the sphere of your expertise.

cap28:
If you are not a schizophrenic why expend so much energy disagreeing with me, only to later agree with the very points that you had earlier described as "skewed and biased" ?

Look up the definition of schizophrenia and rephrase your response. Again they are skewed because they are presented within a biased context to your intended audience. Go back to school

example of a biased statement
"The US is an Imperialist nation that reeks havoc on smaller nations trampling on their soverign rights and spreading their pseudo principles of democracy"

example of an unbiased statment
"US foreign policy issues in relation to its effects on soverign rights of Arab nation states and consequences there of in terms of destabilization and  spread of democratic principles"

cap28:
hahaha - why do you keep on contradicting yourself - on the one hand you say everything i have said about the US is skewed anti imperialist propaganda -now once again you confirm what i said earlier about them acting covertly and actually agree with me concluding that "they have had over 200 years of practice".  hahahaha you're funny you know.

Thats not a "contradiction" its a "clarification" of earlier statments I have made which state that you are arguing the obvious.

cap28:
Oh and here i was thinking that human beings all over the world  operate a  code of conduct which is universal to all peoples irrespective of race or culture, for example all peoples of every culture and racial background regard murder, theft, and r.a.pe as immoral.

Thats a wrong assumption. Simplistic answers for simplistic minded people.

Example:
Is the act of theft to feed your hungry child and immoral act?

If i stole medicine to help my dying cousin, would that act be universally accepted by everyone as an immoral act?

As a consequence is it therefore morally right to punish someone by a beheading or a chopping off of both arms if they commit a petty crime such as theft?
In what context will this be morally wrong if a society accepts this as just and fair?

If there were three people stuck on a shipwrecked boat out at sea who didn't have any food to eat and one of them fell gravely ill and was going to die from drinking sea water when he was told not to, was sacrificed by the other three, killing him to feed on and survive to get back to their families and they eventually did once their boat was discovered. Would you put them on trial?.

What context would you consider their act moraly wrong? If so why?

cap28:
so i take it you woudl have no qualms about letting your wife or daughter embark on a career in por.nogra.phy provided it served the intended purpose of making money?
pray tell are you a sociopath by any chance?

A low blow attempt. Unfortuanately I have neither. None the less i will indulge you in your example which  is inconsistent with the arguement and bears no relevance or correlation. Let us assume this does happen. Who are my wife and daughter hurting? Me, society, themselves? What physical  harm is she inflicting to others as a consequence of her actions?

No correlation. Sorry!

cap28:
Not at all i would weigh the pros and the cons and if my decision would lead to the unecessary loss of human lives i woudl definitely not go ahead with that particual decision.
The US have been involved in numerous situations in which the loss of lives could very well have been avoided but they chose instead to disregard human lives for financial gain.

Financial gain is the least aspect considered when making these decision if you have ever been near a situation that involves these decisions.
Since you want to be an expert on giving examples consider this dilemma
Consider the moral dilemma presented if a suicide bomber refuses to reveal his location of several bombs he has placed in several key embassies  when you know the loss of life will be significant not only to Americans but other nationals as well and you plead with him to do what is moral and right and he refuses and wants to play on his terms. You present him with his children and slit the throat of one of his kids. He still refuses. You beckon him that you will slit the throat of the other child and he refuses. What would you do?

Are your actions justifiable? Are they moral? Are there universal principles you allude to in your response held by each and every society in the same standard.?

cap28:
But you are still an oppressed black african man who will never be accorded the same respect or opportunities as your white counterparts, you can pretend not to be african all you want but the minute you step out of your bubble into the white man's world you are kicked back into touch with reality.

You must have me confused my dear fellow and your continious childish rants on race are irrelevant to me within the contexts of my though processes. Sentimental brandishing will not get you anywhere with me. I do not entertain those juvenile finger pointing

cap28:
Why do you refer to africans as "they" you are african yourself, why are you ashamed of who you are, whitey laughs in your face when you try to mimic him and distance yourself from your own people, he laughs at your tragic self hatred, he will never accept you.

It is tragic to hate your african self don't you think?

Don't think you even realize the origins of the word African before you begin to call yourself one. A name is not an identity in of itself anymore than a military uniform is to a soldier.  It is the self awarness of the responsibilites that are tied to the actions of that individual in relation to other groups of people that give that name or uniform meaning and identity. Therefore asserting yourself as an African and saying I am black and proud ten tiems a day does not mean much to me nor does it convince me of your more "Africaness" than myself.

Grow up!

cap28:
"Dabble" being the operative word, jack of all trades but master of none, if you had an indepth knowledge of history i wouldnt need to be having this conversation with you.

In the new world A jack of all trades is versatile a jack of one trade becomes obsolete when they run out of ideas cause they can't see past their own limitations

cap28:
But im sure it would make a huge difference to you if youd had to endure the humiliation of being told to stand up for a white person on a bus or banned from going into a white neigbourhood or white school.

I would figure out how to build my own school and leave that Whitemans school alone and do everything within my means to secure funding for my school to flourish. The AA's chose civil disobedience as a method vs insurrection.

cap28:
Dummy do  you see how stu.pid  you are, you never knew any of this did you, you never knew that america had such an appalling track record  in terms of its foreign policy thats why you stupidly concluded that america isnt an imperialist nation and has never invaded and destroyed the political and economic soveriegny of foreign nations, now that i give you one example of country which was destroyed by america, instead of showing gratitude for the knowledge i have imparted into your pea brain you PRETEND as if you knew it before.

Again there is nothing you are saying or have said that is not already out there, no new information covert or overt regarding US policies in the middle east that you are enlightening anyone on. You are REGURGITATING information passed as analytical thinking. There is a difference.

The problem is that you don't even realize that conversating with me requires you to continue to exert critical thinking skills you obvously lack in defence of your stance.

Keep up the IMPERIALIST information sharing agenda.

cap28:
first of all you called my comments "anti imperialist propaganda" which were according to you  "skewed and biased" and you claimed that all the facts id come up with were flawed but then you went on to contradict this statement by  AGREEING that the US are in the middle east to further their agenda of penetrating and destabilising the region??  Do you suffer from schizophrenia?

First you wouldn't know what a schizophrenic looked like if you were standing right next to one so don't use terms you are not familiar with.

Second they are "skewed and biased" because you present one particular view point in relation to the issue without exploring other complex factors that go into such western stances.

cap28:
why hide under the cloak of a fake revolution? why not topple  leaders you dont like using the old method of coup detats as was the case with mossadek of iran in 1953 and numerous other coup detats in the region?

surely the only time you use a fake revolution is when you are actually hiding your true intentions ie acting covertly?

Cause they are not as dumb as you are. they've had over200 years of practice

cap28:
Right so i take it that you think it is perfectly fine for the US to spend millions of dollars of US tax payers money to form "unholy alliances" with opposition groups in foreign countries?

If it serves the intended purpose. the answer is yes. What's strange to you about that? Oh yeah its the holier than tough utopia mentality.

cap28:
So let me get this right - its okay for the US to do absolutely nothing when black africans are being killed in millions if the US have no economic interests to protect but absolutely fine to intervene with the speed of light where their economic interests are threatened.  wow you sound like you have a lot of love and respect for your fellow africans!!!

The US did not start the genocide in Rwanda. The ignorance of the populous did. Are they morally obligated to intervene?  Those questions can be framed and discussed around what a people deem to be moraly just, ethical and responsible as determined by numerous factors and historical contexts that influence and shape these moral principles they choose to adopt. ? It might help you to take a philosophy class that deals with the ideas of Morality,virtures, western origins of utililatrism, egosim and the likes.

cap28:
I am well aware that Saudi Arabia is the US's ally but my point is if the US are hypocritically claiming that they are going in to Libya on humanitarian grounds in order to remove a dictator who oppresses his own people, then they need to apply that standard across the board to all dictatorships whether they have economic interests in those countries or not, its either the US openly agrees that they prop up and support brutal dictatorships or they make a distinction and state that they only support dictatorships in which they have economic interests and which completely kow tow to their economic policies like saudi arabia.

Holding the US to ethical standards is easier for you as a sideliner. In practicality you would stand puzzled if given the power and responsibility to make those decisions without facing subsequent adverse effects.

cap28:
What baffles you is the fact that i am not an amoral ar.se hole like you who bows and scrapes before the white man like a bi.tch.  Your lack of self pride and dignity has reduced you to a level where you think its normal for an imperialist racist nation like the US to invade a soveriegn state under the false pretext of humanitarianism.  It is because of immoral arse.holes like you who dont give a damn about their own people that africa is in the shi.t state that its in.  Ive got news for you whitey will still treat you like a mon.key and only give you the jobs he doesnt want no matter how far you force your tongue up his ar.se.

I am glad I am past these trivial racial references and childish rantings of Whitey vs blacky. They are so immature and again are sentimentality steering. They usually hold no water at the end.  You obviously want me to jump up and down and scream mother Africa and death to the non Africans as air headed dummys like you do as a consequence of your mispalced youthful anger and vigour. A more matured mind is practical and sensible in their analysis of situations involving interference and interpretation of soverign rights.

If the whiteman never stepped his foot in Africa for the next 20 years. it would not make a friggin difference what the people would do to themselves.  I could bet you a million bucks on that? Why because they haven't addressed the fundamental questions plagueing each of their societies in terms of how best to lay foundations of governance in terms of fiduciary resonsibilites to the people, settling grievances interms of power structures and establishing evolutionary progressive thinking.  The white man is not the sole owner of open minded thinking and education.

It is elementary to blame Whitey, don't you think? 

cap28:
Be quiet - it is obvious to everyone except you that the US's foreign policy stinks to high heavens, you are fortunate that african americans fought to allow the likes of you the right to eat in the same restaurant as a white person or you woudlnt even have the mouth to come on here regurgitating this nonsense.
I know you have never picked up a history book in your life because if you had this statement would never have come out of  your hole:

I dabble in many subject matters my dear fellow, history being one of them. You on the other hand cannot seem to seperate your anxieties and misguided emotional tendencies from practicall matters other than accusations of amoral attitude. You really do need that philosophy class to put your HISTORY reading in perspective.

In terms of the civil rights movement. An admirable achievement by the AA's but inconsequential to me as it would never make a difference to me if i never ate in a restuarant right next to White people. I would be fine sitting on a mat in a hut enjoying a meal with livestock round me if that were my reality.

cap28:
what a dumbass you are, america IS an imperialist machine dummy, why do you think its got over 700 military bases in more than 150 countries? when are you going to wake the f.ck up

Right right as so was Greece, Rome, Arabia, England. The point is?

cap28:
Who do you think invaded vietnam, haiti, grenada, guatemala, venezuela, iraq
Who do you think sold arms and surveillance equipment to the racist regime of south africa to continue the oppression of blacks in that country?

Yawn History lesson 101. Oh yeah we silly and cap28 is enlightening us. Please continue without a point!!

cap28:
Really so how come countries like haiti were destroyed by america the minute they emancipated themselves from slavery? Why did the US invade the country moret than 5 times and impose a brutal dictator on the haitian people (papa doc)?  why did the US and europe impose a 60 year trade embargoe on haiti causing its economy to collapse?

Why do you think? cause they hate black people cause we are inferior monkeys. Really Cap28, in this day and age you are still simplifying these issues

cap28:
Why did the US REMOVE democratically elected Haitian president Arisitide and DEPORT him to the democratic republic of congo because they didnt like his minimum wage and land reform programmes?

UHHHH, is it cause they are IMPERIALIST?

You should become a history teacher, get paid to REGURGITATE what is already out there in multipy books and study materials. Maybe you can dazzle and win over some simple minded impreshionable 18-25 year old masses like you do on this forum who simply nod their heads in zombie like agreement in awe of your "magnificent" mastery of dates and events without criticism

GROW UP!!


EVOLUTION LEAPS US FORWARD REVOLUTION BRINGS US BACK


[quote][/quote]

cap28:
thanks for posting this, this excerpt further highlights the reason Gadaffi has been singled out as public enemy no 1 by the west

Unlike the agents of western imperialism who run nigeria, Gadaffi is actually using the monies he generates from oil revenues to build useful infrastucture projects within Libya which actually benefit the people of Libya.

I wonder if brainwashed dimwits like morpheus who claim that any criticism of the west is merely "anti imperialist   propaganda"  will be able to work out now that the west is not actually his friend.  I wonder if a light will go on in his brain and enable him to understand that these people who he pathetically looks up to look at him with nothing but contempt and seek his downfall at every turn?

Something tells me that the answer is no.

People who use buzz words like agents, imperialist and the likes are so called antagonistic "revolutionist thinkers" who are able to revel up sentimentality and steer up mobs in their self endowed missions of changing the world for the better.

The sad story behind to all  this is that they believe they are rendereing a unique service to their fellowman kind and cast opposing view points or criticisms as agents or slaves to the systems in operation without realizing that they are simply a part of the same EVOLVING flux of SYSTEMS that demands balance and shifts in power structures that will continue to be unevenly distributed till the end of time as a natural state of human kind.


Cap28. WHAT IS YOUR POINT?

TO INFORM OR TO INCITE!!

cap28:
Your rantings confirm my worst suspicions about you - you are one of those pseudo wanna be intellectuals who mask their vast ignorance with meaningless buzzwords and empty rhetorical statements, pal i have told you before you are fooling no one but yourself.

Right right! a response attempt to legitimize your premise which is flawed at best. Your premise proposes that the West have hidden agendas regarding their interests in the middle east with particular emphasis on controlling economic activities within these countries that benefit them. Whats new about that? What  new strategies are you presenting that have not been used already and continue to be used only in different formats. You supporters call this enlightenment. I call it Hollow and a waste of time. If your mission is to INFORM, that is all well and good. If it is to INCITE and win compadres over to your thought process without a throough examination of

cap28:
if the lies and deception of the western media are now out in the open and common knowledge to all and sundry - why the attempt to portray the uprisings in the middle east as a genuine revolution?

Because it furthers their agenda of penetrating and destabilizing the region as a means of effecting change they wish to see in those regions that would further their grip on economic control of resources they deem necessary to their survival and continued power status.( is that hard to deduce even by a comon uneducated man?)

cap28:
why has the US govt funnelled millions of dollars in american tax payer funds into NGO's like  freedom house, alliance of youth movement and national endowment for democracy which aided and abetted these "colour revolutions".

Because oppositions(which exist by the way within countries) are willing participants in these unholy alliances as a necessary evil to gaining ground in the furtherance of their fight for power rights within their nations. You fail to mention nor analyze this relevant factor( is this harder to deduce?)

cap28:
why the unbeleivable speed on the part of the US/UK govt to intervene in Libya on supposed humanitarian grounds when they failed to do the same thing in the case of rwanda where 1 million tutsis were barbarically massacred in a space of just one month by hutu militias?

Because Rwanda had nothing of economic interest to the US that would warrant a speedy intervention in saving the lifes of black Africans who PLEASE NOTE started the war by their own making in the same pursuit of power. ( Much hardest to deduce I am guessing)

cap28:
Why the demonisation of some dictators (Gadaffi) and the complete silence or ambivalence  with regard to others (the Saudi royal family, Mubarak of egypt, Ben Ali of Tunisia and the king of bahrain?)

National interest dictates primary targets who are not allies of a nation. Saudi Arabia is an ally of the US as the US provides indirect protection to the mornachy from external regional aggression despite the Kingdoms atrocities. Whats new about that. ?

This holier than though attitude you take in terms of governments and societies is what is baffling to me. I suggest running a country of your own and see how you would fair. I bet the world would be a utopia to you where we all shake hands and greet "Salam' to each other while we wipe each others azzes. You like to sit on the side lines and B.I.T.C.H. don't ya. What organization are you a member of? What issues to you address and on what platforms apart from opinionated forums.?

If your accusations are that the US is not "fair and just" in its exercise of promoting fundamental human and democratic rights it so aspouses then thats a legitimate grievance if thats the case say so. However to continue to misguide people into perceptions that paint the US as some IMPERIALIST machine that covertly tramples on the free choice of soverign nations to choose their destiny is FOOLISH and uneducated thinking for one who appoints themselves as truth tellers.

There are several larger factors that contirbute to the overall problem each of these countries face and even if you remove the "intervention" of the US in terms of its national interests these countries problems still remain unsolvable and before you know it they are calling BIGBROTHER to come help them out in the name of HUMANITY.

cap28:
DEMONSTRATE TO ME THAT THE WEST'S MOTIVES ARE NOW OUT IN THE OPEN FOR ALL TO SEE.

Google a subject matter on the internet or visit a bookstore to get as much info as needed. You didn't conjure up all you have written from your head did ya? don't know how much more open that is.

cap28:
DEMONSTRATE TO ME THAT THE CIA NO LONGER OPERATES COVERTLY.

Never insinuated they do only that their methodologies are no longer so 'covert". The issue is we know they do and are no loinger oblivious of this fact. Most of us simply choose not wanting to get the extra dirty details that people like you flaunt as "new" information. We understand the end product

cap28:
DEMONSTRATE TO ME IN PLAIN ENGLISH (not meaningless incomprehensible rhetorical statements) that "it is now common knowledge to all and sundry as to where the UK/US stand in relation to the ongoing crisis in the middle east.

English is what I have been using since, unless you mean in Layman's words. Rhetoricals shouldn't intimidate you you are a learned man or so you appear to be therefore my ENGLISH should not be an issue for you to comprehend, Should it?

The UK/US stands have always been in relation to their nationa economic,, security and political interests regarding the middle east interms of keeping the growing threat of Islamic fundamentalism. The tactics and covert means they use to accomplish this are encompassed within these interests as stated.


Again what are you saying that is new information and WHAT IS YOUR POINT?

[quote][/quote]

MandingoII:
STFU morpheus.

There are unenlightened people in our midst. They WILL BELIEVE any and everything BEEMED at them via the MEDIA. When the Media has a VESTED interest in FOOLING the masses.

@Mandingo

From the movie words of "Elijah Mohammed"(paraphrasing). "If you give the people a glass of water spilt with ink and present it to them as the "truth". If left with no alternatives they will drink it. If you however present to them a clean glass of water they will recognise the difference and will eventually conform to the purity of the water.

Marinate on the above in reference to all the BS being spewed on this thread in the name of "TRUTH" and try to put it in perspective. A little critical thinking might help your brain you know.

cap28:
Sssh you are not making sense as usual.

The point of threads like this is to educate and inform numerous clueless people like yourself who pretend to know whats going on but are just as clueless as mariory, shotster and other ignoramuses who actually think a genuine revolution is taking place in the middle east.

If you think that its better for people to wallow in ignorance and be misled by a duplicitous western media that sums up your level of reasoning.

The idea that telling people the truth will according to you "incite and steer emotional sensibilities" makes it clear to me that you prefer to live in blissful ignorance rather than be an educated, enlightened and informed individual, if thats the way you want to live be my guest but do not attempt to stand in the way of other people who seek to know the truth.

If you call regurgitation of propaganda to semi literates who have brains that are able to deduce without your help "education of clueless massess to the truth" I think you should start from primary one and learn the tenants of a well rounded learning exercise.

A learning process requires rigourous COGNITIVE CRITICAL THINKING and analysis of causes, effects, root causes, constructive criticism and solutions to issues with an ability to present and understand all the facts that are relevant to the issue. What you are offering to your "ignorant" masses  are skewed biased versions of what you want them to think they should know.

You  are simply an individual stuck in  the revolutionary "time warp" of colonial mentality and anti imperalist propagandaism. Your reasoning and methods is past its time. You would do better to beam yourself back to  the 60's when people were less informed about these "secret CIA" covert operations and underground government conspiracies you like to allude to.


Stop the MESSIAH/ Town crier mentality. THE US and CIA position is not so "covert" anymore. We know where they stand and what their usual tactics are or at least can deduce this from numerous sources of information.

WHAT"S YOUR POINT?

MandingoII:
I agree with Cap 28.

His reasoning is well document/analyzed and clearly communicated within an objective framework.

Furthermore,

It is what is HIDDEN FROM YOU that is most important.

Why is iT being hidden?

&

Who stands to gain?

moreover, why is it that America and Europe SUPPORTS DICTATORS AND HATES COUNTRIES WITH (oil/resourses) (iran/venezelua)

you may want to ask yourself is it COOL for people to SUFFER under a THIEVING Dictator for Westerns interest. If you agree that it is cool for people to suffer for your western standard of living then YOU CANNOT ARGUE on the MERIT.

Why? Because you are biased. Moreover, you are desensitized to LIFE!

and if you are desenisizted to LIFE, FUGG yours and all those of your ILK.

@ mandingo

All throughout this entire thread, I really don't see what is NEW information regarding western powers and their dealings with Arab oil rich countries. Aint nothing being HIDDEN.

WHAT IS THE POINT if not to spew and regurgitate known facts and opinions that are in a billion text books world wide as an excercise to incite and steer emotional/sentimentalities.

After a couple of hours we are back to our old selves again engaging in the dictates of natures playground we call life,

While you are at it alerting the world of THE WEST"S ATROCITIES pic up the todays Wall street journal and see the faces of your BROTHERS being brutalized by these ARAB libyans who are looking for mercenary BLACK AFRICAN scapegoats to channel their frustrations towards.

OR is this more propaganda

Hmmmm??

My fellow African brothers. Lets celebrate life and try to enjoy it while we can. These megalomaniacs will soon be no more. Africa is wising up. The winds are shiftingand there will be no place for such men in our future.

In the mean time make we dance better zim music hehehehehe!!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raJDRlZyKME

You don't say, !!!

Nothing new as usual. Just the normal Imperialist propagand.The evil Western powers are at it again huh?

The real discussion should be centered on Globilization aspirations vs Protectionist socio-political economies _Benefits, Flaws and dangers there of;

The US needs the Arab world to be destabilized, perfectly good strategy as far as I am concerned. If there is an opposition that exists within a country and their grievances are not addressed in a political manner then by all means they are free to take up arms regardless of who is supplying them those arms with the rewards that come with economic allliances that may exist after the aftermath.

If a leader is not intuned with the times he is living in . he is a relic and needs to make way for a new age of things regardless of how much we think he is keeping is country "STABLE".

My 2 cents

Miriam50:
People are ignorant like no body's business!!!!!!! DAMN! Any race that thinks they are pure are only fooling themselves. Because the true story is in the Bible. If you ever read the book "EVE". You will know the truth. We all come from mother Eve and she was (black)African. In the Bible it tells us that all of us are a mixed breed of a lot of different races.Throughout history and all over the world every known race has had mixed marriages with all other "forbidden" races. FOOLS all. There is no such thing as a pure race. Blacks are more closely related to whites than any other race. I don't know what their biggest shock is? Read your history,darlings. Read and educate yourselves. Humans are the dumbest things on this planet.

And the bible revealed all this to you.

And you call us ignorant.

The man should have gone down with some Glory. I would have prefered they come take me out.

See now Switzerlnd has frozen his assests. This is why he didn't want to leave. All the sharks smell blood

AND THEY ARE COMING FOR HIM!

freeeedommmmm!!!!!!!!

superboi:
Not the whole of Africa countries are harlot to the west. And the South African ship is just a supply ship in its Navy and it is there to take out south African citizens if crazy Ecowas try their invasion. But trust ECOWAS leaders to engage in fearmongering.

They need ship to evacuate their citizenry? Please!!

Googler:
No surprise there! South Africa has been set against the rest of Africa since the end of apartheid. No, Mandele's era was actually different - it started with Mbeki. From refusing to cooperate with the rest of Africa on the issue of Morocco and Western Sahara to congratulating Yar'Adua when materials meant for our elections were at a printer's office in Johannesburg, their foreign policy has been driven by, how did John Atta Mills put it? "Mind your own business!" It seems the new rulers of the country don't care if the rest of Africa burns as long as there is "peace" and South African companies are allowed to trade and bread and butter is repatriated. The role they are playing now is the same role played by the likes of Mobotu and Banda during the apartheid era. It's quite sad when you consider the history of the country.

Why should they play big brother when the rest of Africa is not on equal political, economic or social grounds as they are. They influence their regional bloc and the rest of Africa might as well be irrelevant to them.

Thats on our various countries to wake the azz up and see that black people can run an efficient and sustainable system within the Afrian context. instead jealousy dey worry people

Not a good strategy.