₦airaland Forum

MduZA:
South africans have been living in peace and harmony with African immigrants particularly from neighboring countries but things started to change when our boarders were opened for our so called brothers from Nigeria,we started to witness some of the crimes which were foreign to us(drugs-dealings and human-trafficking),this criminal element went as far as establishing gangs amongst Nigerians themselves which are deadly fighting each other,unfortunately no Nigerian is willing to acknowledge this.

Point 1. You were not living in peace and harmony with any African immigrants. You always had issues with foreigners particularly from southern Africa who competed with you in the mines and other sectors pre 1994 so stop trying to paint yourself as innocents.

Point 2. Things started to change post 1994 when the economy was handed over to the new government and a major shift occurred in which transformation of the economy did not take place as rapidly as possible and unskilled and under skilled workers began to compete with their foreign African counterparts. The inflow of economic migrants increased and thus the pressure and negative social perceptions of foreigners in general began to fester in the minds of black South Africans.

Point 3. The Nigerians constitute a segment of this burgeoning economic immigrant class of which some specialized in certain types of illicit and illegal activity which was never foreign to your society in the first place. The gangs in the western cape always peddled drugs and were involved in prostitution rings as well. the 28, 27, dixies boys, Americans, mongrels e.t.c have existed in South Africa for a very long time. Your media simply looks for sensational stories to keep your minds occupied from the real powers.

MduZA:
We always hear of stories of Nigerians dying in the hands of south African police,when you dig deep down you will find that majority of those victims were criminals who die while trying to avoid arrests using all forms of fatal tricks.My point is Nigerians look yourselves in the mirror,surely you will find unwanted dots which require your own wiper ...or else the status quo will remain unchange unfortunately!

My name is Mduza,that's my personal opinion!

Point 4. I will admit here that Nigerians do kill Nigerians in South Africa anyone that is oblivious of that fact is simply being disingenuous.


Point5. Why should anyone die in custody of the police, is that person's life worth less simply because he is a Nigerian. Did this person attack the police, even resisting arrest does not warrant excessive force that leads to death. If arrested and found wanting, deport with immediate effect back to his motherland and mark the person undesirable. These heinous acts are neglected because deep down inside it comes down to teaching these "others" a lesson and not in terms of true justice.

Nobody is stopping you from cleaning up your streets, if you are going to do it. Do it well!

Lovelive:
But you are killing your own people here in Nigeria every single day so what is d difference ?

When a building collapsed in Lagos and a bunch of South Africans died, why did your government ask for a full report and investigation, don't people die from accidents

s.t.u.p.i.d reasoning.

Bantu education!

EVarn:
This is quite unfortunate indeed. Allow me to assure you in the strongest terms possible that the FRN will,if pushed to a breaking point on this issue, exercise vigorous and robust measures against the RSA. Nigeria and South Africa are brothers and we shouldn't let the activities of a few misguided elements on both sides jeopardize our cordial relationship.

I would term the relationship of Nigerians and South Africans as very distant relatives, nothing close to brotherly love at all.

EVarn:
Nigeria has long had a policy of non-interference in the affairs of other sovereign states,hence, I don't understand what you mean by being "dictated" to. We are merely trying to safeguard the lives of our citizens in your country,same thing your government would have done if the case was reversed.

I will urge you to play your own small part in enlightening your people against the evils of xenophobia and other such criminal enterprises. While we may currently be facing grievious security problems of our own,we are keenly aware that the Republic of South Africa has the world's highest crime rate and an unstable polity. However,that shouldn't be an excuse to neglect the security of both citizens and non-citizens. We hope this issue can be resolved soon.

I couldn't have put it any better.

orisa37:
Morpheus24. Thank U.

1.The Fulanis are Arabs, Ishmaelites, Moslems, Muslims, Hargarites and Islamists. Check God's Policy in Genesis 16:12.

Let me clarify and expand on some of your statements above.

1. Fulani's are not Arabs, they are however Arabized West African peoples that took on may Middle eastern cultural practices and its religion as well.

2. The point about being Ishmaelites, Hargarites ,Midianites again is irrelevant to the problem, these are all borrowed folklore from Arabia.

orisa37:
The Arabs have not sat down well to understand Islam in meaning and in content.

I would say here that Northern Nigerian culture is a struggling reminant of Islamic domination/culture from North into West Africa. It struggles to appear progressive but is captured by its own history and religious restrictions, making it extremely incompatible with Southern culture. The sooner we come to concensus about these differences the better off we will be, but alas the name of the game is POWER!!

orisa37:
2. Nigeria's many ethnic groups are naturally categorised into three-Yoruba, Ibo and Hausa. The Division of Nigeria into 36 States is of immense Progress and Foundation laying Policy for all future progression and giration for Unity, fame and popularity of the Country. Buhari seems completely impervious to reasoning of granting freedom to act, interact and move around to other ethnic groups than The Fulanis, who are just immigrants in Nigeria.

I would much more prefer we go back to Regional government as is practiced in South Africa where provinces encompass usually more than one tribal group but are still able to maintain cohesion because the emphasis is much more on development and social issues than religion or ethnicity. In its short run that country has already had Presidents from 3 different ethnic groups taking into account there are only basically 11 official Languages with a couple of them being mutually intelligible.

orisa37:
3. The way Buhari is dulging the granting of full autonomy of Police, Resources and Elections Control to the 36 States smacks of lack of insight, hindsight and foresight. That Sokoto/Rivers, Ogun/Yobe or Ondo/Kano might have relative Mergers, Conglomerates and Commonwealth is beyond his imagination.

Buhari lacks Knowledge of Democracy.

Buhari is a relic of the old order of Nigeria and really has nothing to offer Nigeria in terms of unifying or mitigating tribalism in Nigeria, but to attempt to hold on to the order that has ruled Nigeria for the past 60 years.

XhosaNostra:
I just don't have the interest or time for another one of your waffling sessions. Keep it brief next time you decide to quote me or even better, don't quote me again.

Yes my usual waffles do require an intense cerebral exercise of which you obviously are not up to the task, nonetheless no one on Nairaland is beyond reproach.

XhosaNostra:
And your point is?

If you can't decipher that then don't bother because its quite elementary.

Tumbulum:
I believe that the southern part of the country can live together and succeed. They could form their own country and be successful. Even though Yoruba's and Igbo's seems not to like themselves which stems from our political differences, these two groups hardly fight themselves. These two groups can reach an agreement and adhere to it. These two most importantly believes in negotiations. They share similar values,believes in education, values humans lives and are generally peaceful. Cut off the North from the south and see an accelerated development of the south.

The evidence is there already; intermarriage, sharing space without much conflict, intermingling of the cultures etc.

There have been break downs in relations between the two major ethnic groups in the South i.e. the Yoruba and Igbo but in my life time it has never escalated to a level of an odious nature.

The middle belt would have to decide who they feel more culturally affiliated to and make that decision for themselves whether to be in the North or the South. I would love to see a united Nigeria but after much examination and experience, it will be an extremely difficult task to accomplish.

XhosaNostra:
Whose fault you're 200M though? South Africans are sensible. We have one of the lowest birth rates on the continent & the world because it's simple, more people = more mouths to feed/requires more resources. The solution to your problems lies within your society.

1.Please take the "South Africans are sensible" statement back. A large or larger Population can be harnessed to produce economic prosperity as there are a few examples of such countries in operation so that point is not necessarily valid.

2. Countries that assimilate certain aspects of Western culture( reduction in birth rates and ergo lower fertility rate) as is the case in South Africa will reap the same benefits in terms of resource allocation per head. This however is only one component of a multiplicity of variables that promotes economic success.

3.Western Africa and Southern Africa have very dissimilar histories and culture. The Bantu peoples are a singular entity that spread across central and Southern Africa creating a more uniform cultural string that assimilated peoples on its way down.

Western Africa did not have enough time to assimilate the kingdoms that existed before the intrusion of Colonial rule.

orisa37:
The Fulanis brought wickedness and Tribalism into Nigeria. They are Arabs. They became Fulani, Fi-la-ni and Trekkers on Foot and Journey on to whereever in Nigeria. Buhari doesn't like Awolowo, Obasanjo and Falae. He doesn't like Shoyinka but because that one is not a politician, no one notices the hatred in his face when you mention these names in his presence. He is full of so much dislike for these people.

1.The Fulani's brought Islam into the country which added to the already strong cultural differences between the North and the South, creating a much more conservative religious way of life in the North compared with the much more liberal and progressive society in the South.

2. Nigeria has two many ethnic groups concentrated in one area that never had the opportunity to merge naturally into smaller less ethnic- diverse states. South Africa on the other hand emanate from the more or less the same founder populations and are therefore more linguistically and culturally similar to one another, coupled with facing a similar enemy mitigated the issue of Tribalism.


3. I do believe Nigeria needs to separate between North and South amicably as the South has a more better chance of integration with its varying groups as they have done naturally through the centuries. Its not a definite that the South will survive but the odds are far better.

distributeinc:
Of course, by the skin hues you will discern that

like Khia mentioned, the hue of the skin does not always point to the fact of native ancestry.

The degree of native blood does correlate with skin tone sometimes.

khiaa:
You are breaking my heart.

Never my intention. I am a peddler of knowledge, that's my ultimate goal.

einsteine:
Will you shut up, attache by force.

Go and tell the Portuguese or Catalans that they are Spanish because they answer the same names with the Spanish. Ukwuani/Ndokwa is a gazzeted language different from Igbo. It even has its own dialects, as what is spoken in Abor is slightly different from what is spoken in Emu or Ogume. Stop doing attache by force, and face the problems in your red, mud, overcrowded region.

The stupidity of this statement above is simply mind boggling.

Your reference above to Portuguese or Catalans is false logic and based on a completely different premise.


If you speak a language that is closely related to another set of people that are adjacent to yours it is most likely/very probable you share close genetic, cultural and linguistic affinities to them so much so that both of you very likely share the same "founding" or proto-populations.

Simple stating that a derivation of a language into a dialect and further into a language group is ample evidence to categorize both groups as 'distinct" in non sensical and subjective in your definition as to what constitutes "distinctness".

Ojiofor:
Buhari should deal ruthlessly with his former ally Sowore and his supporters. Ndi Igbo should stay away from the fake revolution.

Who wanted them to participate in the first place, they want Biafra not revolution for Nigeria.

Sowore's movement is far more progressive than shouting and making noise all day with no direction.

keep your mouth shut there my friend.

onatisi:
we warned nigerians against voting for buhari in 2015 but their brains were upside down then, we arned them what buhari will do to them , so funny that it is actually those who did everything to bring down gej government are now the same ppl been teargassed by buhari men .

Stop yapping if GEJ was voted in is it not the same system of cronies and cabals that are in place.

Flawed logic.

Go back to elementary 1

Yoga11:
Revolution is different from protest bro. I will do the same thing PMB did to avert all these frivolities. No leader will ever see this happen to his administration and fold his/her arms. As much as I love people showing their grievances definitely not through this means. Nigeria is a Democratic state and we're all bidded by her laws. Your votes is your right. Come 2023 then vote buhari out but not waging war on his government. Are you saying buhari is the problem or the system?

coward!

Tina26:
Nigeria is beyond redemption. No point. Thank God my canada PR is almost due. Sowore the foolish fake activist. Kept his wife and kids in new york

Your brain is slow, so Wifes and children are now candidates for fighting political war abi?

How many children did you see at that protest in lagos.

Ode oshi!

bjnorl:
Not only. In Brazil brown people are mestizos ( mixed amerindian with Europeans) and mulattos. ( Example mestizo and Mulatto) 1 - mestizo 2 - Mulatto

There are several shades of brown. Techinically speaking most Africans are dark brown in complexion even though we use the term "black" to define them.

distributeinc:
They are Africans, period...that's my point.

Correction:

They are of majority African extract to be more precise which generally means they would cluster genetically and phenotypically with contemporary Africans. 500 years is not a significant enough time to have completely changed them especially on a genetic level.

Backfornow:
True and a good number have Native American mixed in as well. Most that I've seen including my own family are heavily Ghanian ,Cameroon Congolese, and Nigerian. Depending on the tests used, the percentages of the countries are reversed. One test out there claims to be able to pinpoint to the exact tribe but it's the most expensive and a lot say it's inaccurate.

The tests peddled by "African ancestry" as opposed to 23&me and Ancestry.com uses a different algorithm to pinpoint the exact tribal group but again it is to a particular confidence level, therefore it is not quite inaccurate but is less accurate that it could be.

khiaa:
They say they can pinpoint the region but not the tribe. No, I haven't done mine, I just don't believe it's accurate.

DNA most definitely can pin point the region you share ancestry with in Africa and to what varying degree. The more data that is collected the better the confidence level.

The separation of Diasporan's from continental Africans is only 500 years old which is about 5 generations out, coupled with the intense racial segregation that was common in the USA would lend credence to the DNA results that come out of tests done on African Americans in particular.

CTPlayer:
Media driven more so. And you also get people on social media trying push narratives.

Couple of weeks ago I was arguing with a girl who runs a radio station who mentioned that she brought up the topic about how Chris bound had made a comment about only wanting to mess with the chics wih "good hair" and apparently this upset a lot of people in the black-brown community as to why Chris bound should held accountable for this.

I couldn't stop laughing at her. my first response was who the hell is Chris brown in the first place, some light skinned son of biracial lady who obviously is as confused about his ethnicity or race as are many Black people in America.

Why should I care. I grew up around women that were darker skinned, far more coarse hair and fare more stronger African features and so did a lot of us, hasn't deterred us from marrying our own kind neither has there been a wave of Africans marrying "up" the racial lines to acquire this trait( some do though but that's another topic in of itself).

The overall point is please stop giving emphasis to things that can be easily explained by more note worthy means such as science or genetic inheritance or natural selection and educate your people.

Mind you this girl who I was conversing with is of mixed heritage who's hair is nothing close to an average African's hair texture that is considered "non-good" hair.

panafrican:
There is now another ethnic group in the US: Brown people. .
Why all this nonsense ?
Black, White, Brown, maybe yellow and red later.
America is so inclined to seeing skin color
people wonder when is this going to stop.

like another person mention, the US has been obsessed with skin color so much so that it is ingrained in their psyche. A disease that will eventually manifests itself in stupidity.

Anyone that wishes to follow them in this folly is doomed to that same stupidity as well.

The world is bigger than the boundaries of the USA.

AFONJACOW:
his mates Abi... so in school e no get people wey senior you but all of unah be same class mates ..


Otondo

even if we are to emply that logic, Don jazzy no fit pass 38 years old

Olodo!

AFONJACOW:
Don jazzy is 36 then I'm 7years

Go ask all him mate for Federal Government college Lagos wey be 36 and 37 years old, dem go confirm am for you

Abi you no know say dbanj na him senior!

Olodo!

poweredcom:
Donjazzy mum is from.abia state Igbo and his dad is from isoko Delta State ok

So he is half of Igbo he is from Delta state

Not fully blood Igbo ok real name Michael ajere colins


Who marriage help why una no de disturb M.i to go marry or other top artist that is not yet married why Don jazzy do you wanna fall mavin empire

Marriage is dying in naija baba don jazzy has a kid if you don't know make you know from the london days

After all almost all naija gals r trash not all men will be their fans to keep as a wife

Point of correction, He is half Igbo and half Isoko. Delta is a State and not an ethnicity/language.

It is quite clear that he speaks Igbo well. I have never heard him speak the Isoko language though.

Amujale:
When Austria-Hungary and the Ottoman Empire were formally dissolved, it created the bases of the kingdoms of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes was created and later called Yugoslavia.

Yugoslavia is part of the Balkan.

I am aware of this history

Amujale:
All the Balkan states participated in both Colonisation and the Trans Atlantic campaign.

Some of the Balkan states had colonies, some didnt, what is undeniable however, is their overall involvement.

This is the statement I am concerned with. It is a claim. Where is the evidence?

Balkan states were involved in Colonisation. Colonization of who or where?

What particulars were they involved in regards the Trans Atlantic campaign?

Amujale:
In order to understand better, you ought to read the book "Colonialism without Colonies: examining blank spaces in colonial studies" by Barbara Luthi, Francesca Falk and Patricia Purtschert.[url]
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14608944.2016.1107178[/url]

Most of the proof provided are of honest European writers describing the involvement of their own countries.

Kindly take the time to read the content of the link, those that arent fully available to non-members, there will always be a summary if the entire journal.

Again bein involved in Colonial activities does not amount to possessing or administering an actual Colony.

This is like saying I I paid to sleep with a prostitute in a brothel in Russia, I am responsible for the kidnapping and underage trafficking of underage minor girls.

The two are seperate events with a correlated relationship and not a causal one.

Amujale:
For further information reasearch the "Scramble for Africa" and the "Middle Passage", every European country currently existing today played a role in both Colonisation and the Trans Atlantic campaign. Some played bigger roles, i agree, yet they was all in on it.

I don't understand the reasoning here.

Please inform me in what way Yugoslavia played a role in the scramble for Africa. You are simply applying the formula of guilty by association here. The major world powers were the major players in the scramble for Africa, even if other countries played roles in the process of colonization that would be like saying the Nigerians who worked in the colonial offices were also guilty of colonialism because they participated in its administration.

False premise.

Amujale:
Romania was part of the Ottoman Empire, and the Ottoman had huge involvement in those evil campaigns.

Apart from that, Romania has a history of engaing in those type of activities on their own people.

You are reaching here. Again are you talking about the trans-Atlantic" slave trade specifically or "Slavery" in general, which in this case a lot of nations both inside and outside of Africa were all culprits for over 1000 years +?

Amujale:
[url]http://www.inmotionaame.org/print.cfm;jsessionid=f8301223691563880399191?migration=1&bhcp=1][/url]

Not all European countries had collonies, yet, all of them took part in the campaign in different ways; especially by ways of direct trading. All the European countries invested in the Trans Atlantic campaign in various diferent ways, the Royal families and the wealthiest invested monetarily whilst the poor European citizens invested their workforce during leading up to Colonisation and during the fabled "Middle Passage".

http://discoveringbristol.org.uk/slavery/routes/from-africa-to-america/atlantic-crossing/middle-passage/

There are currently over 40 European countries present today and all of them was involved in Colonisation and the Trans Atlntic slave trade in various ways.

Russia: Although Russia did not participate significantly in the Trans Atlantic campaign, still, they involved themselves in the physical trade from other Europeans aswell as from the Ottoman empire. /url]

https://www.jstor.org/stable/4203665?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

Germany: Building on the pioneering work of scholars like Klaus Weber, Eve Rosenhaft, Felix Brahms, and Mischa Honeck, this essay re-charts the various routes of German participation in, profiteering from, the transatlantic slavery and its cultural, political, and intellectual reverberation.

German entanglements in transatlantic slavery: An introduction:https://www.researchgate.net/publication/320106864_German_entanglements_in_transatlantic_slavery_An_introduction

Uk: Is recorded as being one of the heaviest participants and one of the countries that benefited from the Trans Atlantic campaign.

France: Is recorded as being one of the heaviest participants and one of the countries that benefited from the Trans Atlantic campaign.

Italy: The Roman Catholic Church played a major role in the trans-Atlantic slave trade.

http://m.amsterdamnews.com/news/2018/sep/18/major-role-catholic-church-played-slavery/

Spain: Is recorded as being one of the pioneers of the Trans Atlantic campaign.

Ukraine: See the notes on Russia.

Romania: Romania was one of the worst perpertuators, their history is also riddled with vile concepts on slavery.

Netherlands: Dutch involvement in the Atlantic slave trade covers the 17th-19th centuries. Initially the Dutch shipped slaves to northern Brazil, and during the second half of the 17th century they had a controlling interest in the trade to the Spanish colonies.

The History of the Dutch Slave Trade, A Bibliographical Survey.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/2116658?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
Beligium:

Greece: Had heavy participation both in ancient times and during the Trans Altantic campaign.

Portugal: Is recorded as one of thw pioneers of theTrans Atlantic campaign, the other being Spain.

Sweeden: Sweden made the slave trade illegal in 1813, but allowed slavery until October 9, 1847. Sweedish trading stations reappeared in the 18th century, when Sweden established a colonial presence in the Caribbean.

Sweden, the Slave Trade and Slavery, 1784-1847.
https://www.persee.fr/doc/outre_0300-9513_1975_num_62_226_1827

Switzerland:Switzerland's involvement in the African slave trade runs deeper than the history books suggest. 

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/switzerland-played-key-role-in-the-slave-trade/3472130

Heres good book to read for further study: -

Colonialism without colonies: examining blank spaces in colonial studies by Barbars Luthi, Francesca Falk & Patricia Purtschert.

You are not that clever. You make a statement about Romania but still provide no direct evidence of the trans atlantic slave trade and that country, instead you mention other countries that were the usual suspects already.

Amujale:
All the European countries took part in the Trans Atlantic campaign. Romania was one of the worst perpertuators.

I need the source for this info please.

Amujale:
Eventhough i understand the point you make here, there can be no justification for Colonisation and the Trans Atlantic campaign.

They (the early Europeans) took slavery to a demented level, turning their evil campaign into the worst attrocities in hunan history.

All slavery pre African colonization or the trans Atlantic campaign would be horrific in the same manner in terms of treatment with the only standing difference between the two being one has these exclusive characteristics as follows:

1. was capitalist driven and therefore motivated by the utmost greed ever recorded in history.

2. was chattel slavery_ owernship of slaves in perpetuity

3. The complete stripping of the identity and humanity of the slaves in every fashion possible.

Amujale:
Romania haa one of the worst records on slavery in all of Europe.

Romania must rank as one of the worst of European perpetuators, ranked behind Belgium, France, Germany, Holland and the UK.

Officially, France was said to abolish slavery in 1826, UK in 1833, whilst Romania continued until 1856. America was said to abolish slavery in 1865.

1.Are you talking about "slavery" in general or Slavery pertaining to Africa?

By your logic, almost every society has practiced some form of ownership or servitude of another human being, if so then your point becomes null and void.

Amujale:
You are completely misinformed.

Name one European country that you think didnt take part in that evil campaign and allow me prove how misinformed you really are.

Romania!