₦airaland Forum

LeSudAfricaine:
and yet these black south Africans make the biggest middle class in SA.

False premise. Misleading

They would of course my dear, if you are comparing their numbers in relative terms to the total middle class population in SA in terms of race. This does not negate the fact that a larger population of unskilled,semi skilled and illiterate SA's are black.

LeSudAfricaine:
How many kids have access to primary school education in both countries? How come the literacy rate of S.A. trumps that of yours then? Lemme guess, it is because of your beloved "whites"right? But they make 8 percent of the population and not all of them are educated.

Unemployment is a global problem you are not immune to it

Digressing. This is not a debate about educational levels in Africa. Its a pointing to the fact that a large population of black South Africans fall under the category of unskilled, underskilled and illiterate. Therefore do not have the skills needed to plug into the economy or benefit effectively from it.

LeSudAfricaine:
Where are these enterprising Nigerians you always waxing lyrical about? I clearly don't see them. You are known all over Africa for cutting corners and making easy money. FACT! The business Nigerians do in SA is either cutting hair, selling belts on pavements and of course drug trafficking, tell the "we are enterprising" story to the gods

Enterprising connotates words such as an adventurous disposition, readiness and eagerness to undertake challenges, spirit of daring. In otherwords people with nothing come to South Africa and out of nothing produce something. They do not like working for others. They open up clubs, eateries, creches, barbing salons, import/export businesses and the likes. Why are there not a plethara of your people who are doing themselves. Why are they waiting on government for welfare is the question you should be asking.

LeSudAfricaine:
yet you call dark Africans " charcoal " and then you come here and give me a pan African speech, sorry don't buy it

Huh

Where did I refer to dark Africans as "charcoal"??

LeSudAfricaine:
In Malaysia and many of these Asian countries they see a black person they automatically assume it's a Nigerian and that's a fact! Why do some Nigerians masquerade as Ghanians abroad? You've spoiled it for Africans accept it and move on

Assumption galore. If it is fact. Prove it. Evidence to support this premise. It is presumptive to declare this as fact.

False premise. If Nigerians masquerade themselves as other nationalities this would further strengthen the argument that Nigerians spoilt their own name and not the names of other because They would be assuming the identity of a less suspicious person which would also indicate that Asians can differentiate or do not discriminate these nationalities in the same manner they do Nigerians.

ZarZar:
I said nothing about "fear". I said the issues in our community sometimes reach a boiling point & the people attack those they perceive to be the root of the problem. Again, they attack the people they live with so to speak. Personally, I don't think the South African issue is xenophobic, more than it is frustration mixed with social ills that the govt. is not addressing quick enough. However, I'm not an expert so if whatever is happening qualifies as xenophobia, then xenophobia it is. Btw, everybody knows that Chinese keep to themselves so they rarely become targets because they don't mix with everybody but other Chinese nationals. Chinese are not trouble makers by nature, so the only loss most of them incur, almost weekly, are robberies. They're also aware that it comes with the package of living in a crime infested society because they rarely make noise about it.

The point is are you being exploiting by these foreign nationals aka the CHinese and the Europeans. Are you or are you not?

Just because these people wall themselves away from you does not negate the fact that you are being exploited by them.

Just because one population lives side by side with you and are flamboyant in their show of exploitation and the other are restrictive and hide away from you does not eliminate the cause-effect of the situation now does it?

LeSudAfricaine:
Is there any country in Africa with as many African immigrants as South Africa? We've been living side by side with Zimbabweans, Mozambicans etc for many decades are we all of a sudden xenophobic? I for one don't give a rat's asss for being called xenophobic the term has lost its relevance

The term has not lost its relevance. The term is very relevant because it embodies the total grievance of SA against Foreigners and black ones in particular.

1. An influx of immigrants into the country induced the "fear" of foreign nationals also know as Xenophobia

2. The Zimbabweans and Mozambicans you lived with in peace was post 1994 and post collapse of economies in the countries you mentioned

3. You should give a rats ass for being labelled as such and come out to repudiate the stereotype as we repudiate our stereotypes

LeSudAfricaine:
everyone complains about Nigerians, t only becomes a problem when its South Africa. Do you know he treatment meted on them by the indians in india?

False narrative.

Countries complain about illicit activities perpertrated my a minority number of Nigerians

South Africans complain about ALL FOREIGNERS including Nigerians who engage in illicit activity in their country. Difference.

LeSudAfricaine:
Belgium has many immigrants from the Congo and other francophone countries but you would never hear negative stories about such people.

False narrative. Belgians is one of the European countries that are protesting against immigrants in general including Africans.

MduZA:
selling drugs and using teenage girls as prostitutes ,that's what they call jobs..whether we are lazy or xenophobic,we don't care...this is our country..if they don't want to behave like humans...let them go back to their zooooo..or else

You are diverting from the evidence I have presented. Again if there are criminal elements in your society who are engaged in these activities, produce evidence by surveillance, facts, proof, video footage, interviews with ex prostitutes, ex drug dealers etc to support your claim.

Are you that slow that seeing is believing. If you do this and present it then the whole world will support you when you drive us all out.

Do I have to teach you how to produce evidence or do you just like to complain about everything.

LeSudAfricaine:
fortunately it's not up to you to dictate who should be African who should be not.

Its not a dictate its an indictment my dear.

LeSudAfricaine:
need I remain you its you Nigerians who have spoiled the image of Africans worldwide with your criminal antics, if anyone should be called a disgrace its you! The Malaysians know it, the Indian know it, the world knows it

False logic. Nigerians have spoilt the image of Nigerians. If you travel to Malaysia and mention you are South African, no one will associate you with drug peddling. Neither will a Kenyan or a Malawian.


2. Internal African affairs regarding a Pan African mindset would support my claim of labeling you Un- African, in your conduct irregardless of the status of Nigerians illicit behaviour on the continent. irrefutable fact.

LeSudAfricaine:
Nigerian hav this deluded view that south Africans don't have jobs , it's only them who work, I really find it funny, I mean if they are such w orkaholics why don't they develop they country then instead running to already made countries

FALSE NARRATIVE

1. A majority of black South Africans are underskilled, unskilled and semi illiterate. FACT!

2. Unemployment rate at 34% when you take youth employment and those who have given up on looking for jobs.

3. Nigerians are enterprising within and outside of the country. You have to be a workaholic and have a strong work ethic to achieve this goals. FACT!

4. Illogical conclusion. You have drawn a fallacious conclusion by correlating development with an aptitude for working hard and achieving personal wealth. South Africans especially the ones of black persuasion did not work hard to "develop" their country. The colonial and settler populations judiciously translated exploited resources to develop the infrastructure and economic system which you inherited pre 1994. You inherited these institutions.

MduZA:
We are not complaining about foreigners taking jobs...we are complaining about Nigerians selling drugs,don't you get it?...

the are many foreign nationals in many sectors in Nigeria exploiting your people,surely you know that..do you know why some businesses prefer hiring your people in SA,they don't want to follow labour laws,they pay your people peanuts,your people work for abnormal hours..this is the reality you will never admit...dont equate white people doing legal business with your drug dealers..Nigerians residing in Sunnyside and hilbrow are not doctors,they are drug dealers,burnt houses in rosentanville were not rented by Nigerian doctors but drug dealers...I told you some months ago that since you Nigerians don't want to admit and change your behaviour...you will always be in the receiving end!

You are either a block head or an illiterate.

Point 1. You are complaining about foreigners taking jobs, stop peddling false narratives. You are disguising your economic sufferings and failures of your governments with issues of criminality within foreign communities. You are a violent people and express yourselves violently

Violence in your parliament SONA 2017

Violence in your protests #FEES must fall

Violence in your football games #Sundowns beat Pirates

Violence in Rosentenville..... Burning down and looting goods and properties

Now Violence today on your streets..... attacking immigrant communities and not only Nigerians

MduZA:
the are many foreign nationals in many sectors in Nigeria exploiting your people,surely you know that..do you know why some businesses prefer hiring your people in SA,they don't want to follow labour laws,they pay your people peanuts,your people work for abnormal hours..this is the reality you will never admit..

Incoherence, Fallacy and false logic.

1.How do you relate this to your protests and mob actions on foreign migrants.?

2. What foreign nationals are you refering to and what sector do they work in.?

3. Most Nigerians in SA are professionals who work as doctors, lawyers, engineers, teachers who are paid on par with their South African counter parts. They are also taxed the same so that point is nonsensical and outright lieing.

4. Many Nigerians are business owners who run various businesses. The rest are jobless who engage in illicit activities who refuse to work as house boys, cleaners, waiters and the likes. Those jobs are filled with other SADC countries citizens. Another lie.

MduZA:
Nigerians residing in Sunnyside and hilbrow are not doctors,they are drug dealers,burnt houses in rosentanville were not rented by Nigerian doctors but drug dealers...I told you some months ago that since you Nigerians don't want to admit and change your behaviour...you will always be in the receiving end

If the majority of Nigerians who traffic drugs and so are in Sunnyside, why is the mob action taking place in Mamelodi and Atteridgeville. Why is the TV footage not focusing on these areas. Stop exposing your S.t.u.pidity here. We can follow whats going on live.

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MduZA:
do you admit that many of your people are into drugs and human trafficking businesses in SA?...

1.I have never denied this fact anywhere in any commentary I have ever made.

2. You must quantify what you mean by "many". What categorizes the many you are talking about? Is it the many you see, the many you come in contact with or the many you have evidence to present.

3. There are approximately 800,000 Nigerians in South Africa, for argument purposes lets inflate this to 1 million.

Extrapolate from this number females who are less likely to commit these crimes and using a ration of 3:1 which is a modest ratio of women to men in the world the number is reduced to 300,000 potential Male criminals.

Extrapolate males aged 1 to 18 who are less likely to zero of engaging in illicit activity at a ratio od 2:1 the number of potential males reduces to 150,000 potential male criminals

Further extrapolate professional Nigerians who are engaged in legal activities such as Doctors, Teachers, Engineers, Barbers, Business owners, Exporters, Government officials at embassies etc at a ration of 3:1 you get only 50,000 potential male criminals

Now you can say 50,000 is a lot but if you compare that number to the total number of SA which is 51 million and further juxtapose that to the total population of Nigerians in South Africa 1 million and the total Nigerian population resident in Nigeria 170 milllion you will see how s.t.u.p.id your people are when you say many or most Nigerians are into illicit business.

MduZA:
you are bringing the issue of whites as if they are foreigners,they are south Africans,you cannot change it..foreigners have been working in south African mines since 1888,nobody accused them of taking jobs but since our boarders are opened for you Nigerians..things have changed,,you have brought in your element of crime..its unfortunate innocent law abiding foreigners are also affected by the axe not meant for them...Im glad that south Africans are now beginning to see who the criminals are..you Nigerians!

There are whites who are foreigners who live all around the country who take jobs in highly skilled sectors, They are from allover Europe. They exploit your people, hire black foreigners at cheap and discard your services because you are lazy. No mentioned of these folks during your loud discourse or so called protests/looting. None what so ever. Is it because you are afraid of them?

You are attacking other black foreign nationals including Somalis, Malawians and the likes so this is not isolated to Nigerians. You start off with Nigerians but almost always add others you have contempt for. Tell the truth.

The black foreigners who came in the 1800's to work mostly from Zimbabwe, Malawi and the likes were not bothered becaus they represented an insignificant number because of work restrictions during colonizaion and the Apatheid area, e\ after working they returned or repatriated their wealth back to their countries. The remainder that stayed,adopted SA languages integrated and dissolved into existing communties

ZarZar:
LOL @ the last paragraph. Refer to my post because one thing as a South African I am not, is to deny the issues of my country. I'm a realist. Your post is too long, so I'm not going to address every issue & question as if I'm writing an exam or I'm in court for a crime. I'll be short because for one I'm not guilty as a person & two, I don't owe you any explanations on a crime I didn't commit. What I'll tell you though is, these attacks are not only limited to African immigrants but to Asians as well, especially those who set up shop in black communities. Like I said in my other post, the pressure of these issues is taken out on those they can reach out
to 1st. Meaning, the people they share communities with because it's in those communities where people start noticing stuff & the whole thing builds up. If this explanation doesn't give you clarity then hey, as I can't exactly know what goes on in the minds of people who perpetrate these kind of crimes. I'm not a psychologist, a politician, an economist or a human relations expert, so I can't give you a more in-depth perspective on all this more than the one I just gave.

1.So the issue is then Xenophobic because there is a perceived "FEAR" of foreign nationals you "SEE" versus the ones you cannot reach.

2. So you've addressed the Pakistani Asians, how about the Chinese or the European variety. Why do you not storm their neighbourhoods?

WORDWORLD:
On a surface level 'DRUGS' are seen to be so much HARMFUL to the society. On a substance level, 'ALCOHOL' is much more HARMFUL but well embraced and celebrated by the society. This tells how not EMPRICAL the human society functions. Or is it all HYPOCRISY? If we must ban 'DRUGS' we must ban 'ALCOHOL' too which is THE DEVIL . I HOPE DONALD TRUMP IS DOING SOME THING ABOUT THIS. Trump knows better after losing his brother to the evil of 'ALCOHOL'.

Though its about South Africa. My bringing in Trump is because unless AMERICA starts to being a RESPONSIBLE COUNTRY that values human lives and stop being a ROUGE nation. The world will keep living in CHAOS.

You are very incoherent in your response and your logic is all over the place.

1. In respect to the subject matter, no one is talkinga bout BANNING drugs, they are focused at stopping its use. The drugs are not legally used in the first place.

2. The comment about Trump and his brother is totally irrelevant and I don't know how it fits into the situation.

3. There is no correlation with drugs in America and South Africa. There is one with illegal immigration relating to both countries

MduZA:
on your last comment you bragged about your compatriots selling drugs in SA...what is currently taking place in Pretoria is the effects of that...if you think your people will do as they please,here you are in a wrong country...I remember how you warned last time about attacks on foreigners in SA,your people have been singled out this time around..cant wait to see your country artificial muscles!

1. I did not brag about my compatriots illicit activity, I simply gave an opinion on the reciprocal effects of exploitation that takes place in relation to both countries so don't contextualize my statements. If you want me to clarify my statements simply ask.

2. The issues going on in Atteridgeville, Mamelodi and Pretoria west in general are not channeled at brothels or areas where illicit activity are taking place, therefore you cannot claim you are attacking criminals, they are going about rampaging and trying to penetrate mostly SOMALI neighbourhoods to burn down houses and loot. Stop peddling false narratives, unlike most of your people most African can think with their brains.

Please admit a good number of your people are Xenophobes a symptom of the same disdain Whites had for you, you are projecting. Why not march to Cape town, Sea point and rest where White foreign nationals are buying up all the property there and excluding you from areas in your own country. COWARDS!

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grandstar:
You're getting the minister wrong.

Abike Dabiri undiplomatically made some comments about Nigerians killed in South Africa. He replied by saying do you know how many South Africans have been killed by Nigerians?

South Africa has a very high crime rate and Nigerians dominate the drug trade. They are also involved in prostitution. Many Nigerians are forced into crime due to a high unemployment rates that affects both locals and immigrants. Guys are lured into crime in order not to starve.

Crime in South Africa is extremely violent with guns plentiful and policing underwhelming.

Nigerian criminals are also part of those who commit murders. You can't be involved in drugs and not be exposed to violence.

The minister's response is likewise combative and out of context. Abike Dabiri says Nigerians are being killed in South Africa based on extra judicial activities and perceived xenophobic sentiment. The minister cannot respond by stating how many Nigerians kill South Africans. What context is he framing that argument? is he insinuating that if Nigerians kill South Africans as a result of criminal activity therefore his somehow normalizes or rationalizes the killing of Nigerians under the circumstances Abike frames her claim. The issue is within his jurisprudence and jurisdiction therefore contextually his response is nonsensical.

If he had mentioned the killings of South African in Nigeria that would be a more contextual response.

Again the man appears to be articulate but in reality I don't think he is.

ZarZar:
All the things you mentioned, yes. The thing is, as much as the average South African would love to limit the number of foreigners entering the country, it is simply not their call to make, it's the government's. Which is where the problem lies because the govt. is not going to stop allowing people from other countries from entering the country, if it creates good relations or whatever they're gaining out of it, in the interest of South

South Africa is a practicing democracy, it is their call! you cannot claim your government is the one allowing people into the country. The laws that govern your country which the people have cosigned to is what permits many categories of foreigners to enter, visit, reside or work in the country. If a majority of the people are displeased with certain types or categories of foreign nationals then go back to your representatives and force them to change the laws or withdraw from any commitments they have made concerning these issues. Botswana is well know to have done this, you can follow suite.

You then have to clarify what foreigners you are speaking about that you want to limit. There are European and Asian foreigners so called "expats" who are economic migrants as well who enter the country and take jobs from locals, I don't see any rallies mentioning these particular types of foreigners. They buy up properties, conduct business activities and even engage in criminal activity as well. Some of them are from Europe and Asia. No mention of them at all.

.

ZarZar:
Africa. Yes, some of us are not looking at the bigger picture here & are just being irrational. My only wish is if they do a complete background check or whatever, to make sure that whomever is coming into the country, is doing so to be a productive member of society. However, that is not the case at the moment. It's like every scumbag from all walks of life is given free access to add to the issues we already have with our own scumbags. You see how this becomes a pressure cooker to the man on the ground? Because govt. officials don't run in the same circles as the people they let into the country, but us, average South Africans, have to live with the consequences of their careless selection. Oh & btw, I mentioned Nigerians because that is the question that guy asked me. He singled out his people, which is understandable so I gave my answer in context of how the question was phrased.

Most foreign nationals black, white and Asian contribute positively to the country, They pay taxes, buy products, rent houses, open businessess and conduct most of their activity within the country legally, what ever is left over they may repatriate back to their countries if they wish to or re-invest back into the country.

A minority group of foreign nationals including Nigerians are nuisances to the economy and must be sort out, convicted if found to be criminals, deported if warranted.


Now the issue I have is in the narratives of government officials and so called South African communites as regards these foreign nationals living amongst them. It is skewed. There is an undeniable sense of anger, jealousy, contempt and irritation which ultimately leads to violent acts that are perpetrated by South Africans which have nothing to do with criminal activity by some foreign nationals but a frustration of their economic situations which they cannot seem to figure out how to get out of by themselves irrespective of foreign nationals in their mists.

You act as if there are no South African criminals and these Nyaope boys are some how lured into becoming drug addicts. These problems existed before the entry of drug peddlers and will exist long after. I dare to say if you do take out every single foreign national out of the country you will find some other issue to blame for the failures of your government. IF these nationals leave then what are you going to do with the vacated areas? Change the narrative!

ZarZar:
Look, I won't lie & say majority of South Africans don't have issues with Nigerians but I doubt many would choose to settle out those differences with violence. TBH, many wish the South African government would stop issuing visas to Nigerian citizens. However, regarding xenophobia, look at South Africa as a family or any household. Every single family out there has black sheep, that have a totally different way of going about things from the rest of the family. That's all there is to it. No two siblings are the same, even when they grew up under one roof. We're still different people with different temperaments at the end of the day.

A majority of South Africans have issues with foreign nationals in general, that is a true statement
A minority of South Africans wish to use violence to intimidate and get their point across as historically this is a tactic that has been used to achieve results.
South Africans in general are not clear on what the majority issues are that they have with foreign nationals in "GENERAL".
Is it the fact that these foreigners are illegal/undocumented,
Is the the fact that they are competing for limited resources and job opportunities,
is it that fact that businesses are hiring cheap labor supplied by legal or illegal immigrants,
Is it that they are involved in illicit and criminal activity or is it all of the above?

Your government needs to clarify the issue they have to the international community and articulate that to the world so we are sympathetic of the plight you are experiencing and come to consensus of what needs to be done.

If you cannot handle the commitments you have made to acceptance of refugees, asylum seekers, economic migrants and expats from black African nations then please articulate this the international community, expel them peacefully, close down your embassies in these nations, stop issues permits and visas and isolate yourselfs from the world as you did during the Apatheid era and let it be know officially that you want to be left alone.

Shikena!

That Gigaba is a closet Xenophobe and is simply masking his real sentiments concerning Foreign nationals. If you don't want these people then shut down your Embassies in these countries and stop issuing permits and visas. You can't have it both ways. You want to invest in other peoples countries but you will not uphold your mandate on asylum seekers and economic migrants.

St.u.p.id Politician from an extremely violent and angry nation.

MduZA:
those SAn companies in your country are scattered all over the continent....the fact that your country cannot create her own to match them ,they will dominate your market whether you like it or not..since you are bragging about selling drugs in SA , don't cry foul about xenophobia when the very people you are selling drugs on turn against you ....You will only colonize our streets in your imagination,surely you know where we place you..!

Look at your streets today and see all the xenophobia taking place. You people are not worthy to be called Africans and should change your name to AfrIkaner "dogs" of the Pseudo African state known as South Africa.

You are a disgrace to the continent and all of Africa knows it.

If there are criminal foreign nationals in your community, fish them out, report them to police if not report them to your press, if not then report them to your government using evidence to back up your claims but you can't do that, masking your hateful and angry hearts with false accusations.

Since 2008 to 2017

kgr28:
2 = As long you don't behave here, we gonna keep on making your miserable lives worse.
3 = Nigerians specifically
4 = OHH we don't want to contribute to alraedy bad employment numbers, reduced tax revenue cuts and all that. We export value while you export rubbish to the world.

1.Who is not behaving?, Nigerian drug dealers? if you are speaking about those then by all means make their lives miserable. However we all know you are scared of real drug dealers because you are afraid of reprisals, instead you make the lives of poor shop keeping, hair dressers, pastors, school children and the likes hell. Not one drug dealer has been paraded or exposed, not one name published, not one surveillance footage of drug activity pointing the criminals out. Nothing!

Why because its not really these guys you are mad at, you are mad at your miserable lives because you don't know how to change it so you project your misery on people who are vulnerable. You are angry at everyone and everything around you so you toyi toyi and burn buildings, vandalize and loot peoples stuff.


Shame on your mayor who is a big disappointment as a leader and who makes sweeping an unclear statements in a public forum.

2. Your companies are tax evaders, tax avoiders, labour exploiters and pretty much Whites monopoly capital

#apatheidposttraumaticstressdisorder.

mikeapollo:
You have missed out the MOST IMPORTANT aspect of this whole issue: Nigerian must be lawful and conduct themselves well in foreign countries! PERIOD!
You cannot be lawless and engage in criminal activities like drugs, frauds and expect to be left alone.
We Nigerians should ask ourselves why other nationals like Ghanaians, Kenyans, etc are not being attacked!

Guy if SAffer's corroborate their accusations with evidence, surveillance footage then when they burn houses down, attack churches and chase out foreign drug dealers then I will be cheering for them but you have hungry unscrupulous and thieving men who use these excuses to loot and attack people they probably have personal beef with.

Are South african ladies stupid, why will you be hanging around Nigerians if your men are treating you well or going to work and earning a living.

Don't mind these Saffers, they are a very angry lot and vent their frustrations out on anything or any situation they can.

kgr28:
Fok I thought you dead already TALKING THE SAME RUBBISH ABOUT SA EVEN IN 2017. Get a life dude!!!!!!! What has this shyt have to do with women Mark this date 24 Feb 2017 in Pretoria, shyt is going down for foreigners!!!!!!! The sooner we get rid of low lives like you here the better.

1.How can morpheus die, I am immortal.

2. As long as xenophobia lives in the hearts of SA I can never stop

3. Which foreigners are you refering to because the number of chineses, pakistani and White foreigners as a whole should be troubling to you as well.

4. When you do make sure you come and take your foreign companies from my country especially, I can't spend my money in enterprises that are racist, xenophobic and anti African.

Jayceon:
pure gospel

Ohh, he's put you under a "spell" alright. You actually think the non- sense he just posted actually makes sense.

eish! bantu education

MduZA:
you and I have got same status on this forum,dont even try to destroy the good International reputation of Someone's business...unlike Your compatriots queing For asylums daily in pretoria,I'm accessing this forum from Joburg,its a matter of login and out..thats internet For you..!did nt you join the february 5th National Hunger protest led by 2Face?..i still maintain Whatever happens in SA...none of Your business,unless you are worried due to the fact that SA is Your new colonizer!

You and I know my compatriots are not real asylum seekers and are "gaming" your system much the same as those "colonizer" SA companies in Nigeria. You set up shop, exploit our population size, repatriate our money via tax evasion and tax avoidance

We reciprocate, we send you our degenerate human capital,, colonize your streets, exploit your women, sell you nyaope and send the proceeds back to the village to build papa the house he has been waiting for.

A fair trade if you ask me, if you don't want it otherwise please ask all them companies to leave Naija with immediate effect and I will advocate with full force the repatriation of Nigerians from SA.

Deal?

1metre:
u should also remember the fact that not all Nigerian are doing illicit business is sa, not to talk of it, do u know how many sa ladies doing prostitution in Nigeria? Do u know the damaging effect of that to the life of the Nigerians? Hope u know that greater population of sa are living with HIV.who is killing who here

Guy i dey see these SA ladies for abuja no be small thing o. Their sugar daddy fly them to Naija for weekend enjoyment and splurge on them.

This is the major reason why South African men dey vex no be small but this is not completely the Naija or the SA ladies fault, SA men are notorious for not treating their women well and this is the major reason these girls jump ship, so call to all SA men , treat your women well, go to work, earn a living, educate yourself, stop spending your money at shebeens, stop having unprotected sex and spreading HIV, stop dumping your kids and running away and maybe your ladies will leave these "foreigners" alone

ganye1:
Audu Maikori concocted a story, got fake pictures of mutilated dead people and posted them online just to incite violence and some people are calling for the release of the criminal. It is the activities of people like Maikori that are responsible for most of the communal violence in the country.

Please re- read your accusation above and don't just use big grammar for its sake. To concoct a story would require the one "cooking up" the story to understand the effects of the "ingredients" he is using to concoct the story. In other words if the preconceived intent is to cause malice, disseminate erroneous information and incite to violence then he is guilty. However if the "ingredients" used to concoct the story are sourced from a third party who knowingly supplied incorrect facts to the "cooker" of the concocted story, the most the cooker would be guilty of is negligence to vet or cross check the "ingredients" he was given to cook up the food....Ehem.... I mean story.

This is just an intimidation and fear tactic by government. The case will not stand up in court and if it does the most he will be liable for is passing on false or incorrect information to the public. As far as incitement well, they have to prove "intent" and what kind of incitement is he intending, incite to emotion, incite to violence, incite to demonstrate which will be difficult to prove

Jayceon:
you strayed away from the real issue here

We all know SA is naturally beautiful but that isn't really why africans seek refuge here.the real issues here are economic,political hardships their respective countries find themselves in,they escape civil wars,hunger,deadly diseases(malaria,ebola,aids,cholera,etc) etc.

So I don't think SA is a "hell hole" as some people who enjoy bashing South Africa and its citizens would say

you are being denial but it's okay, I won't put pressure on you

1.The fault is yours for not qualifying and contextualizing the use of the word "beautiful" in your earlier statement and since this was not done, it was open to interpretation.

2. Thank you for now clarifying the real issues you were alluding to. Please bare in mind Africans in general seek refuge in multiple countries on the continent and only choose South Africa as a first preference because of its general overall stability in terms of some of the points you enumerated above i.e. economics and political systems. The hunger and deadly disease part is a misrepresentation of sorts because there is food abundant on the continent and the "means" to purchase is the impetus for leaving their respective countries and not the suggestion that there is wide spread hunger per say in those respective countries. Like wise the reference to ebola, cholera, malaria or HIV/AIDS for that matter. HIV is more prevalent in South Africa compared to other countries and ebola never chased anyone en masse from Liberia, Guinea or Sierra leone to emigrate to South Africa, neither does Malaria for that matter.

Jayceon:
My ancestors didn't risk crocodile infested rivers just to see 'natural beauty' they have always been here,that "South Africa was an empty land" story was forged by the white settlers to justify their thievery and you bought that hogwash

It depends on who you claim your ancestors to be. Archeaology relics shot that Bantu peoples mostly Ngunis did not penetrate into South Africa prior to the 1600's and most of the indigenous stock were the Khoi who lived on the coasts and the san who lived in the hinter lands. The Xhosa preceded, the mfengu who preceded the mpondos who preceded the Zulu, who preceded the ndebele who preceded the shangaan and venda peoples. These groups did not arrive into what is known as the western cape, Northern cape, Free state and parts of the old transvaal areas.


The bakwena, batswana, batlapin, basotho and the likes are a much older group that moved southward into the area defined as SOuth Africa today but how long they were there prior to the arrival of the settler population is unclear because of the Mfecane. These groups can however claim a stronger indigenous claim to the area because a lot of their customs and phenotypical apperances cross over with indigenous SAN peoples so there may have settled much earlier along side the san but their language does give away a more later arrival than the san or khoi.

In summary, facts show that most of the so called indigenous groups that exist in South africa today are fairly recent arrivals as opposed to them having existed in those areas for thousands of years as is evident in other African countries.

Jayceon:
Do you think nigerians like beautiful things when they have destroyed all of Lagos infrastructure??

this is your opinion and is best if you keep it

You are obviously refering to the infamous lagos areas where infrastructure is pretty much run down because it cannot carry the large size of the population within it. The lack there of infrastructure or the overuse of it does not necessarily equal to the claim that people are actively engaged in the destruction of infrastructure

Jayceon:
hell hole But africans run to this beautiful country of ours to escape their own dictator governments...why is that?

I can give you some valid insight into why?

1. The geography of the place was modified by nature and therefore is naturally beautiful. Therefore the insinuation that somehow it is beautiful because you are there is conjecture.

2. Africans in general including your Bantu ancestors "run" to that place because the topography is beautiful. Do you know of any human being who doesn't like a beautiful thing. It is unfortunate or rather "fortunate" that you made it there before others.

3.The fully developed democratic systems that operate within the country are an inheritance of the administrative qualities of colonial and settler populations that persisted in the region much longer than most other African nations therefore it would be fair to say, most of the "Africans" were not "directly" involved in the maturity of democracy up until say the late 20th century. It would therefore be a presumptious statement on your part since we cannot compare apples with apples in the peculiar case of South African history as compared to more similar histories of most other African states.

Jayceon:
South Africa is the only african country that really matters...TRUST ME

What sort of supporting preposition is that?

How can we just "trust" you, we don't know you. For all we know you could be a mental patient at an asylum using the internet to pass time while being administered medication.

No backup facts, no evidence, no clarification of your statement.

ProudSAfrican:
Thank you for being "dysfunctional" again.

No, thank me for clarifying my ability to completely confuse you

paniki:
Good to hear that Nigeria has improved. Does that mean you guys now have fibre broadband and wide coverage of LTE?

Yes ooo!!

paniki:
morpheus24, I see you are still around. Have you found a Xhosa girlfriend yet?

Took a long Hiatus from nairaland but naija has improved and now has unlimited internet access so I can play around all day without worrying about data.

I like Tswana/Sotho ladies, them Xhosa/Zulu are too strong for me. They are loyal ladies but too Strong in character. I don't want Muti to end up in my dinner.

paniki:
So what if South Africa is finished?

Paniki

I missed you.

Did you miss me??