₦airaland Forum

jimiobanta:
A glorious new week to everyone reading this thread and God bless you in Jesus name.

I thank everyone that has taken time to read through
and those who have commented including the fellow who claimed I'm stupid beyond measures.
Thanks a lot. I used to be like you, and you'll receive a great education in due course and eat your words.

¹⁰these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
¹¹For who knows a personís thoughts except their own spirit within them?
In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
¹²What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God,
so that we may understand what God has freely given us.
¹³This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom
but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.
¹⁴The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God
but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
¹⁵The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments,
- 1 Corinthians 2:10-15

People are whatever junk, served them, they've been eating
and that's why you are indifferent, discriminatory and narrow-minded towards consenting adults' honest, lasting and loyal same sex relationships

The words you've been reading and following on read, on this thread, are seasoned,
but as stew is trending, look for stew, to eat them with
Jokes about stew apart, the words will do wonders to your soul, as your spirit can confirm every word from the Spirit,
after which your life will be transformed, as you'll never be the same again,
you will become compassionate, empathetic and a better person on the issue and stance of homosexuality

jimiobanta:
For those that asked good questions, all will be answered as I follow the order of points I've listed.
God bless you as you follow.

There always have to be a "those that asked good questions" proviso
It is a sign of, this is my escape route, to evade answering question.
It means, I plan to just ignore legitimate questioning

jimiobanta:
Dear homosexual, I declare to you this day that you are beloved of God and Christ died for you too.
Homosexuality is hated by God, but you are not hated.

¹⁶There are six things which the LORD hates,
Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him:
¹⁷Haughty eyes, a lying tongue,
And hands that shed innocent blood,
¹⁸A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that run rapidly to evil,
¹⁹A false witness who utters lies,
And one who spreads strife among brothers.
- Proverbs 6:16-19

jimiobanta, please, homosexuality is not hated by God

Proverbs 6:16-19 above is a list of what God hates.
It is a list of what God finds detestable
and is also a list of what is an abomination to God.

Proverbs 6:18a, is where from, Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 fits
but you need to ask what specifically in Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13, is abomination to God

Malachi 2:16, where God says, He hates divorce, also slots perfectly well in to Proverbs 6:18a
Amos 5:21, where God says: "I hate your religious festivals, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies"
is another verse, again, that slots perfectly well in to Proverbs 6:18a

Please feel free to ask me questions.
Dont hesistate, if there is a need to shed more light.

jimiobanta:
God is interested in your case
and he has a means of destroying homosexuality in your life and give you a new beginning.

The end point of this thread will be education first and then revelation of the solution.
To have an idea of what is coming read my threads on

deliverance from spiritual spouses

Consequences of having spiritual spouses

Deliverance prayers from spiritual spouses

Why would God want to destroy homosexuality in the lives of consenting adults,
having a faithful, committed, truthful, honest, loving, lasting that's life-long and loyal same-sex relationship
that has no detriment to another person, no betrayal of another person, or no cheating on another person, and is not harmful to a neighbour?

jimiobanta:
@lordreed
you are actually interacting with a soldier of the Lord with more than 17 years experience in the trenches of deliverance.
With experiences which if told, many will find unbelievable.

Chest-thumping on Nairaland doesnt make anyone a somebody
Flouting "experiences" when having not much experience and knowledge of "homosexuality" is sheer feeding the ego, and nothing more.

jimiobanta:
Click my name and read up deliverance from spiritual spouses 1, 2 and 3.
You will be blessed even in your unbelieve

Lessons can be and will be learned, from this good intention, gone bad, off on the wrong foot thread, you opened
because a mind that is stretched by a new experience or knowledge, can never go back to its old dimensions

It was pride that changed angels into devils, but it is humility that makes men as angels
Pride is concerned with who is right, whereas humility is concerned with what is right,
so, be humble, be teachable and always keep learning are great catchwords.

OpenYourEyes1:
If homosexuality is genetic (it isn't as far as I know) it should be managed like other genetic diseases and not encouraged.
It is absolutely abnormal.
It should NEVER be encouraged just as fornication should never be encouraged.

However, people should not be hated or sent to jail for this behavior.
It would be hypocritical because we also have abnormal behaviors we are dealing with.

You're speaking out of both sides of the mouth

1/ How should it be managed, like genetic diseases and not encouraged?
2/ Why should it never be encouraged, and as you put it, just as fornication should never be encouraged?
3/ Is it a normal behaviour for someone to drink from a cup using their foot?
4/ Should such person be hated or sent to jail for this behavior?
5/ What examples of abnormal behaviors do we have that we are dealing with?

solite3:
@bold
what do you mean God does not per se hate homosexuality

God never said anything about hating homosexuality
You're another person that needs to be educated on this topic first

You should stop further posting on the thread unless you sincerely want to learn what the fuss is
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination:" really all about
and why God finds it specifically disgusting

solite3:
Leviticus 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination:
they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 and its twin verse are among the list of most misunderstood bible verses

What Leviticus 20:13 means changes from what most are used to know about it, if context is used to bring out its true meaning
and the only place left on earth, that I am aware of, where Leviticus 20:13, still exists, is India

solite3:
God does not just hate homosexuality it is an abomination to him.

https://www.nairaland.com/4712798/what-does-bible-say-homosexuality#70913593

asuustrike1:
That is not correct.
There are many persons that suddenly develop that habit from childhood.
These persons were never molested or lured into it but they suddenly develop that feeling.
Would you say that such persons were not created by God?

I concur

asuustrike1:
How can it spread like disease?
Is it a disease in the first place?

OP is mixing things up

asuustrike1:
How?
The bottom line is that God hates homosexuality.

God does not per se hate homosexuality

asuustrike1:
What do you think is responsible?
Why should a person suddenly lust another (man lusting after man or woman after woman).
Why are the laws of the federation in favour of the elite?
It is easy to say 14 years imprisonment but we see a popular homosexual claiming to be a girl but trending on the media.
Why hasn't the law taken it force?
Why the selection on whom to arrest.
Why are many Nigerians silent on that popular celebrity but frown at other gays.
Is that not hypocrisy?.

asuustrike1 will a red carpet be rolled out on Naija soil for Leo Varadkar if he happens to be here on a state visit?

ifenes:
You need to be educated on this topic first before opening a thread about it.

I agree without demur

LordReed:
LMFAO! Apparently your addled brain doesn't understand humour.

Aim for the ball and kick it about, not be kicking or stomping on the foot
Face and deal with the message, not the messenger

LordReed:
Your blatherings are boring so its necessary to enliven the place,
if you don't like it report to your imaginary magic sky daddy.

If it is that easy and cheap to create a universe and human beings, why haven't you, LordReed Mr. Big Stuff who is cleverer than God
or any of your other guys you're in cahoots with, not gone to do or create one?

If you don't like how things are being on schedule run, then you know what to do. Jump ship LordReed

frank317:
Sorry I overrated ur intelligence.
Was actually just showing u how unreasonable ur answers are.

and you made a right dog's dinner of it

frank317:
Ok

Dont worry, everything will be OK in the end frank317

frank317:
I hear

I dont believe you heard

frank317:
Lol... How old are u?

Did I hit on a raw nerve?
Or you're moonlighting for the Office for National Statistics?

frank317:
No, It doesn't make sense to me.

I am not surprised
Let me pray for you. Receive! Receive it!!

frank317:
Yawns

He who wakes up early, is bound to yawn all day long

frank317:
Ya... Killing his son instead will solve the problem.

Reiterating, killing Satan from the onset the thing was found in him would not solve the matter because the situational problem will reappear on scene again like it did with Adam and Eve.

The only way God, as Jesus, could have legally died, as part of the solution to the problem,
is by being sentenced to death by the legal authority on earth, and so thereafter killed crucified on a Roman cross

frank317:
Tell me why have ur God not solved the problem yet.

Why are you in a haste?

frank317:
I think ur God is enjoying having Satan around.

You thought wrong

frank317:
I repeat... U can never answer the question.
Stop wasting your time trying.
Ur answers are making ur God dumb.

Do you know what "deja poo" is?
It is the feeling of having heard and read a crap remark like this before

frank317:
Lol

You laugh. I know and understand why.
As, saying to you, the more you try to look at the answer(s), the less you see and none the wiser you are, is truth that is stranger than fiction

RuthlessLeader:
Someone doesn't understand sarcasm.

Someone doesnt want to own up they dont know what true and pure religion is, so takes refuge under the pretence of making sarcasm

RuthlessLeader:
And god is still an idiotic, narcissisitic rapist.

Slandering God, is what you're good at

RuthlessLeader:
He is a predator who leads those who are innocent into sin.
He has caused and is bringing about the damnation of billions for eternity.

Did he forcibly lead the innocent into sin?
Is he forcibly causing and bringing about the damnation of billions for eternity?

RuthlessLeader:
From the moment he came into being.
God as the omniscient God who can see all possible futures knew the danger satan posed to mankind but he chose to do nothing about it.
He could have cautioned satan and told him what he would do

What made you think He didnt caution satan and told him what he would do?
Have you forgotten that Satan has a mind of his own?
Dont you understand that Satan wouldnt be forced to do anything bar exercise his freewill?

RuthlessLeader:
He could have at least talked to satan to prevent the events of the bible,
not keep quiet and let satan sin

What made you think God never or didnt at least talk to satan to prevent the events of the bible?

RuthlessLeader:
and then have us sin...

Sin kills, if sin wasnt committed, we wouldnt be here, having this conversation Ruth

RuthlessLeader:
...and punish all of humanity for the sins of three people.

It is knowledge gaps that leads you into making spurious comments like "punish all of humanity for the sins of three people"
and is why or how I end up having to do lengthy response posts, because I am picking up, after you've made a right botched up of facts.

RuthlessLeader:
I know you will give me some half assed excuse on why God didn't try these better options.

I am more interested in stating and showing you the reality instead of giving you excuses Ruth.

RuthlessLeader:
When he was created.

OK, you say Satan was a danger when he was created
but was Satan a danger from day one of his creation?
Was Satan a danger before sin was found in him?

RuthlessLeader:
And the why is because he thought he could do a better job

Oh dear, that is treacherous and treason

RuthlessLeader:
You just say a whole lot of nothing to confuse your opponents so they forget the crux of the matter.
I wonder if this is how you behave in real life.

You turn soft work into hard work
I am always compelled to fill in the gaping holes in your arguments

RuthlessLeader:
Don't project your crew's M.O. on me.

Let me break it down for you
You do arguments because you trade in sharing ignorance
whereas I do discussions, bartering with knowledge and/or information, for exchange of the ignorance

RuthlessLeader:
The only guys who throw temper tantrums are the intolerant ones who are angry that someone doesn't worship their imaginary god.

Well, you're free to do whatever you like.
I am not mad at you nor angry with you.

RuthlessLeader:
A whole lot of nothing. Trying to appear smart but failing in the process.

Nothing to do with trying to appear smart in there.
It's a fact that, Satan, rebelling, is a by product of something else
That much if you're honest and sincere, will agree and accept is true

RuthlessLeader:
God's incompetence and negligence despite his omnipotence and omniscience.
Not creating satan, talking to satan or giving him his own universe to run would have been much better options than the stupid thing he did.

To what end or purpose will it serve, giving satan his own universe to run?
If it is that easy and cheap to create a universe and human beings, why haven't Satan, you, LordReed and frank317 not gone to do one?

RuthlessLeader:
You are either doing that or indirectly saying god was incompetent.

Ruth, I am not making it sound like God planned for satan to rebel
neither am I indirectly saying God was incompetent.

God, just as was done with Adam and Eve, gave Satan, a moment of choice.

Ruth, you cant hide from the fact that, Satan was given total freedom to be himself,
afterall, surely, you can accept and agree that, a moment of choice, is a moment of truth
It is a moment to prove oneself
C'mon now Ruth, you know about things like this

RuthlessLeader:
The fact is, counselling and advicing satan would have been a much better choice than leaving him to come to his own conclusion.
It also wouldn't infringe on his free will, unless you think guidance counselors infringe on the free will of students.

Satan, just like Adam and Eve after him, had the best of counselling and advices
This warranted that him, and/or Adam and Eve can be left to their own devices without being controlled or helped by anyone else
These arent spurious claims but are biblical facts
Here is an epiphany for Ruth you and others with similar line of reasoning like yours
1/ Satan never questioned God for creating him
2/ Adam never faulted God on how God created him

It is close and similar to, why none of frank317 characters ever question frank317
or ever try to find faults with frank317 in how he created them and their world

RuthlessLeader:
Give me the sentence instead of all this trash.
Or you don't know that privilege can mean different things.
Don't be a lazy coward, teach this ignorant boy what privilege means to your own understanding.

Privilege means a special right or advantage that only one person or group of people has

What's your birthdate?
I think I'll treat you to a something nice, like a dictionary, for your birthday

RuthlessLeader:
And don't bother reporting me,
you have been throwing subtle insults at me and others here so don't act all hurt now.

Asides not into doing arguments, I dont necessarily do reporting
I dont snitch, I let time do that, you know about the saying that, time will tell, dont you.
If I have been throwing subtle insults, I didnt start it.
I am tolerable to insults, so never hurt when I spot them,
even the veiled one slung here and there, so far on this thread,
but when the threshold scale is tipped, I can give as much as I get

RuthlessLeader:
Why would I be pleased when all you do is dodge and speak rubbish for multiple paragraphs without giving a straight answer to my questions.

You wouldnt be able to lie in bed, even if your life depended on it
Look at you lying like a persia rug.

RuthlessLeader:
There is a better way, you know it but you refuse to acknowledge it because it would cause you to admit god was incompetent. Deceiving yourself is allowed.

The better way was scorned Ruth, you know this much, it was.
Adam was given the choice between life and death.
The rest is history , its why and how we are having this conversation

RuthlessLeader:
Punishing people for finite crimes for infinity is morally wrong, especially when we humans use prisons to rehabilitate criminals, albeit imperfectly.
That alone shows we are better than God, especially when you realise god and everything he does is suposed to be perfect,
if so; Why can't he create a perfect rehabilitation system for sinners, and if you say blood of jesus,
Why isn't it available for those in hell?

Here we go again Ruth, and if I type, you'll say too much talking
but Ruth, there are so many holes of ignorance in what you've typed just now
so here is me aiming to put them right
1/ People are not punished for infinity
2/ God is above been morally wrong
3/ The earth is a perfect rehabilitation system for sinners
4/ Hell is a Greek concept, Sheol or Hades is the approprite word to use

Sheol or Hades doesn't have a rehabilitation system for sinners because you cant have your cake and eat it
There is free legal aid for any, that at the last minute, want to take advantage of it though

RuthlessLeader:
So you equate humans with files?
Chai, nothing I won't read from you.

But let me play this game.
Why can't an OMNIPOTENT God just change the default settings so new files aren't corrupted?
Stop limiting God, let's go wild with our imagination, nothing is impossible for him,
so no solution that doesn't involve the corruption of new files is out of reach or too ridiculous.

I thought you were IT software inclined, so tried presenting something I thought you would be able to relate with and so get some understanding from it

Remember I wrote:
"Bottom line, when there is a blemish in a template, subsequent things made from it will suffer until when the flaw is fixed or template replaced"

Ruth, you dont change the default settings so newly created files aren't corrupted, it's the template that is replaced and/or renamed

RuthlessLeader:
Why can't we just do away with the suffering which you may not overcome and just be created better people?

Should have thought about that first before eating of fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.
Sorry we've gone past that stage, besides the train has left the platform and station

RuthlessLeader:
Why must we find meaning in suffering and not in happiness?

We didnt have to find meaning in either (i.e. suffering or happiness)
but then, this goes back to Eden and eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil

RuthlessLeader:
Ad hominem rubbish.

Why not for a change have the courage to face and read the truth.

RuthlessLeader:
You dodged.

Are you pratising for the christmas pantomime?

RuthlessLeader:
Of nothing.

You would say that

RuthlessLeader:
Fixed.

Truth is like the sun.
You can shut it out for a time, like you've crossed out information but it doesnt mean its gone away
It doesnt show a sign of an emotional matured person behaving that way

RuthlessLeader:
Can't the omnipotent and omniscient God come up with another way to make sure the problem doesn't arise again?

Why dont you in protest go and create your own parallel universe and your own perfect human beings

RuthlessLeader:
The only joke here is you and it's not even funny.

I admit I am not half as unfunny as you are with your lame, weak and flat jokes

RuthlessLeader:
Wow. What a sociopath.

Sociopath? What fanciful looking big word that is.
Hmm, let me not talk or say anything about it.

RuthlessLeader:
Lol, Now I know you are confused.
Haven't you guys been shouting free will up and down,
now you are saying we don't have a choice.
Get out and come back with a better argument.

Those verses were talking about you specifically

RuthlessLeader:
A gross incompetence.

I believe whatever doesn't kill you simply makes you a better and stronger
The tragedy of the Garden of Eden is what has been happening and/or is happening all along Ruth.

frank317:
Sorry but non of these answers the question. To any sane mind all these reasons are baseless and does not even attempt to answer the question.

Me: John, why did u beat that kid.
John: because I am stronger than him

My conclusion will be that John is mentally unstable

Do you see how dishonest, insecure, ridiculous and ludicrous you sound with this absurd and bizarre scenario

What has "why did u beat that kid" got to do with "Why didnt God kill Satan from the onset?"
Even if, I am to play along with your weak and useless scenario, please tell me:
1/ Who are you, what are you to John and the kid?
2/ Is John sovereign?
3/ Does John have the "God prerogative"?

Typical of the frank317 I am increasingly becoming to better know,
you in a careless and unwise way have hastily concluded without due careful consideration of all the facts, that John is mentally unstable.

I hope the fictitious John sues the pants off you, in an imaginary court of law

frank317:
This is just one of ur rantings...
Everybody feels good about themselves.

You're just being plain resentful
and trying to console yourself into a false sense of security

frank317:
Ok

You havent the stamina.
Asides your lack of stamina, biblical illiteracy and extreme ignorance, one of your other main challenges is information overload
You cant handle biblical knowledge and/or information
Too much of it, does a flying swoosh, over your head.

frank317:
Ya.... Make things up and claim u are a genius...
Isn't it what that bible is all about?
It gives everyone opportunity to form opinion about a supposes God and claim his view is the best.
Wonder why we have many churches.
The bible is as easy to understand as a nursery book. The story behind Satan and God is a myth.

Silence, as in, not writing anything at all, is better than reading this pitiful temper tantrums and emotional outburst.

frank317:
That's why even a 13 years old can ask such a sensitive question.
Yet u cannot come up with a reasonable answer

I have given you few reasonable answers to start with
but the truth doesn't fit your agenda

frank317:
If God is who u say He is, satan has no business crawling under his skin.

You've got more jokes, right?
That has to be a joke and lazy assumption, to say that satan is crawling under God's skin

Have you not yet read the memo that Satan will get his comeuppance in the end,
Now that you know, I suggest you mind your own business and begin worrying about yourself or destiny

frank317:
Ur opinion...
Again, why did God not kill Satan from the onset...

Killing Satan from the onset doesn't and wouldn't solve the situational problem because it will on scene appear again

frank317:
This is a jamb question u can never never answer.

It has to be ignorance that makes someone make such a laughable comment like this

frank317:
Try again...
The more u answer the more u make ur God sound clueless.

The more you try to look at the answer(s), the less you see and none the wiser you are.

Kcgeology:
the immaculate conception refers to Jesus conception and birth.
On the issue of Mary having other children beside Christ,
I wonder why Jesus will handover Mary His mother to John, His most beloved apostle as a caretaker.
Do not allow sentiment cloud ur judgement. Salvation is an individual race.
Run urs and leave catholics run theirs the way they want.

"When Jesus' family heard what he was doing,
they thought he was crazy and went to get him under control."
- Mark 3:21

"For even His own brothers did not believe in Him."
- John 7:5

John from knowing the mind of Jesus,
is why he was qualified, more than anybody else, family or not, to be trusted with handing Mary over to

RuthlessLeader:
Scientology? Buddhism? The church of the sub-genius? They seem like true religion

You have misunderstood what religion is
You are living with Alice in Wonderland,
if Scientology, Buddhism or "The church of the sub-genius" is what you understand true and pure religion to be

RuthlessLeader:
Okay. Dream on.

Yep, suck it up

RuthlessLeader:
It's in surulere, go and see for yourself. The place is a paradise.

You are out of touch with reality
I repeat present or point to your handiwork, of a world and humans you created, for us to see how good a job you made of it
otherwise apologise for your impudence, reckless and thoughtless "This excuse makes God look like an idiot" comment
You ought put "Learn how to mind my language concerning what I refer God as" on your bucket list

RuthlessLeader:
Satan is a danger

It's good to know, you accept and agree that Satan is a danger
but tell, please:
1/ How Satan, is a danger?
2/ Was Satan a danger from the beginning?
3/ When and why did Satan become a danger?

RuthlessLeader:
no need for all this sophistry.

We've been doing this lane before
because you quite well, know that I dont do arguments Ruth.

I surrender sophistry to you Ruth and your gang because you lot are experts and best at it

The only times, you guys dont do sophistry, is when you have a temper tantrum & frustration caused from lack of understanding
so you throw a strop, spit out the dummy, fling it out on the floor and storm out of a thread with a shattered and bruised ego.

RuthlessLeader:
You make it sound like god planned for satan to rebel.

Wrong!
You are doing it again Ruth, not seeing the forest for the trees.
Satan, rebelling, is a by product of something else

Ruth, I am not making it sound like God planned for satan to rebel
The fact is, Satan was given total freedom to be himself,
afterall, surely, you can accept and agree that, a moment of choice, is a moment of truth

RuthlessLeader:
I think that sentence is better than this word, which can mean anything you want it to mean.

You requested that I say in one sentence not passing two lines, what is the god prerogative

I responded that, instead of one sentence, I can do it better with one word
so gave you - PRIVILEGE

Showing with one word, what "the God prerogative" is
but because of your ignorance of what the meaning of PRIVILEGE is,
you resorted to typing out, saying: "I think that sentence is better than this word which can mean anything you want it to mean".

SMH, there just isnt pleasing some people

RuthlessLeader:
Yes.
Anything that does not involve the eternal damnation of millions is better than what yahweh did

You would say that, wouldnt you?
I am sorry Ruth, but there isnt any better other way
If there were, trust me Ruth, God wouldnt shy from it

Ruth, I am picking up that your grievance, strongly, is about "Anything that does not involve the eternal damnation of millions"
and it seems "eternal damnation" is the focal of your outrage
Why does it bother and eat away in you?

RuthlessLeader:
Omnipotent and omniscient God couldn't use another way which didn't have to have millions suffer eternally for an ancestor's sin.

Let me share with you something, I feel, you can, at least relate to

Ruth, in Bill Gates' Microsoft applications, millions of files may greatly suffer for "an ancestor's sin"
This is because new files are composed and created using default settings stored and/or saved in the "ancestor file"
but troubles can arise with the new files when the "ancestor file" gets corrupted or when it gets infected with a virus
Bottom line, when there is a blemish in a template, subsequent things made from it will suffer until when the flaw is fixed or template replaced

Now look at the bright side of things, to survive, is to find some meaning in the suffering
At the end of it, we will forget the suffering
but never forget what the suffering taught, as will end being a better person

Etch this Romans 8:18-22 verse on to the back of your mind, as I'll reproduce it soon in full, somewhere below next

RuthlessLeader:
That's how atheist here feel debating theists.

You're absolutely right that atheist here debate theists but it's DOA game plan.
Atheists unwittingly display the arrogance of an intellectual delighting in his own ignorances
That perfectly and/or completely, sums up who an atheist is
Argument is food for an atheist,
and why they are unashamed flock together, looking to trade in barter, for an exchange of ignorance

RuthlessLeader:
Shebi.

Call that getting an education.
Aside being a nugget of information. It's all about attitude and perspective

RuthlessLeader:
Anyways, you still haven't answered my questions.
You just dodge and say a whole lot of nothing.

I clearly and without doubts, answered all questions, I did not dodge,
I said a whole lot but I guess you got overwhelmed under fast and furious information overload

Let me jolt your memory a bit,
do you remember what my "The situational problem will appear again" was in response to?

RuthlessLeader:
Why couldn't God just give satan another universe and set of humans and angels to run so that we could compare between the two universes to see which is best?

LordReed:
Haba you wan kill god? He made one universe and he couldn't rest, if he makes 2 he'll run mad na. LMFAO!

It always has to be done on your terms, isnt it?
It always has to be your way and if not, the highway then, isnt it?

I just had to laugh, it's a bit of change from the regular,
as I havent in recent times, read such discombobulated posts, as ones, like these two jokers'

RuthlessLeader:
That way means that God can simultaneousluy show satan to be wrong and he himself right, and we will be able to exercise our free will to see which is better.

"¹⁸I consider our present sufferings insignificant, compared to the glory that will soon be revealed to us.
¹⁹All creation is eagerly waiting for God to reveal who his children are.
²⁰Creation was subjected to frustration but not by its own choice. The one who subjected it to frustration did so in the hope
²¹that it would also be set free from slavery to decay in order to share the glorious freedom that the children of God will have.
²²We know that all creation has been groaning with the pains of childbirth up to the present time."
- Romans 8:18-22

What planet are you on?
What do you think has been happening and/or is happening all along?

RuthlessLeader:
You're saying atheist have the light, while theists are in darkness. Okay.

No, I said it the other way round (i.e. theists have the light, while atheists are in darkness)
You can fall back to sleep, dreaming on.

RuthlessLeader:
The cult seems to be religion yo.

You dont know what true and pure religion is, Ruth

RuthlessLeader:
What?

You heard,
just so in case, you didnt properly hear it right the first time,
I'll paraphrase, I am with one arm tied behind my back, discussing with frank317

RuthlessLeader:
This excuse makes God look like an idiot.

OK, Mr smarty-pants, why dont you present or point to your handiwork of a world and humans you've created for us to see how good a job you made of it?

RuthlessLeader:
What does his sovereignity have to do with him wanting to save his children from that monster satan?

Wrong questioning sequence
You are putting the the cart before the horse
You can't see the forest for the trees.
Don't you see that "monster satan" is a detail?

RuthlessLeader:
In one sentence not passing two lines, what is the god prerogative

I can, instead of one sentence, do it better with one word
PRIVILEGE
That is what "the God prerogative" is

RuthlessLeader:
How so?

The situational problem will appear again
Hang on, so, you really think, killing Satan straightaway, from the onset, is going to immediately, solve or deal with the situational problem?

RuthlessLeader:
After millions have been damned.

Somethings are always going to get worse before they got better.

RuthlessLeader:
Trash.

"I have much more to say to you,
but right now, it would be more, than you could understand."
- John 16:12

Ruth, this table you are shaking, you know you're not balanced and havent the stamina
I give you two pages and that's being generous, you'll soon scram, to scratch head and lick bruises

One man's trash, literally, is another man's treasure.

LordReed:
LoL! Stop taking out your bitterness on me, go face the people who yabbed your life. LMFAO!

"... you're a strongly bitter, twisted, cynical and high negatively charged up scoffer,
that's not yet ready to be unplugged, as you've become inured to your overcharged up negative energy"
- MuttleyLaff: 6:50pm On Sep 16 ©
https://www.nairaland.com/4699322/decades-sexual-abuse-catholic-church/4#71256157

When I wrote that about you on September 16th, I just knew then, you are bitter.
You are full of venom, bitter over something, something that tipped you over the cliff

I have being in your shoes LordReed but never got disillusioned because Isaiah 57:1 propped me up.
For the record, I have no bitterness in me, good luck trying with another card

RuthlessLeader:
That's how mutt debates.
He types a lot but ends up posting nothing of value.
The only good thing about him is that he isn't an extremist or fundamentalist

The light of the truth, can be too bright to the eyes of those in a dark unforgiving place, to see.

LordReed:
LoL! I thought it was just me, good to know I'm in good company.

[img]https://s2/images/MuttleyHilarious34d26efd4dfccb03.gif[/img]
This is hilarious
Just look at LordReed doing famzing and attaché in slow motion.
Cult of ignorance and proud of being ignorant. SMH

RuthlessLeader:
Why so aggressive like a dog marking its territory?

If I was aggresive like a dog marking its territory, my gloves will be off
There isnt even blood, yet, on the gloves Ruth

RuthlessLeader:
You know you and your crew haven't said anything to answer the Op

I do recall posting the below:

"Now going back to the original question:
"Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset?"

There is an ambiguity in the question and the ambiguity is with "Onset"

Which "Onset" is this?
"Onset" from where, when or what?"
https://www.nairaland.com/4793738/why-didnt-god-kill-satan/2#72236339

---

---

---

but OK, and to appease you and MrBible,
here are a few reasons, out of the many other simplistic excuses behind why God didnt kill Satan from the onset
1/ It is because God is sovereign is why God didnt kill Satan from the onset
2/ It is because of the God prerogative, that God didnt kill Satan from the onset
(frank317 being an author, shouldn't feign not understanding what this is about, frank317 practices this a lot with his narrative characters)
3/ It is because killing Satan straightaway, from the onset, isnt going to immediately, solve or deal with the situational problem
4/ It is because Satan will be a tool and part of the solution

frank317:
lol... i just didnt know where to begin with u...
I am glad i am not the only one who feel that way.

I could spend the whole month interacting with u and end up wondering if u even know what u are sayin

I know what I bring to the table
Are your teeth strong enough to bite and chew on it?
Is your stomach strong enough to hold it in without retching up?

frank317:
I think u are just out to waste my time...
sorry, I dont have time for waste.

You think I am out to waste your time, you say. Pfft
I freely, willingly and as long as I can will, give over time for you
Why? because lies can only manage to run sprints, but the truth runs marathons

frank317:
I seriously dont know what he is feeling like. God perhaps.

Your ignorance on this matter humbles me

frank317:
If the 13 year old was reading their response she would even be more confused.

The 13 year old will come out more enlightened because the knowledge gap that prompted the question will have been filled and dealt with

frank317:
Imagine, God knew freewill will mess his world up after introducing it ans made preparations for the worst that will happen...
yet today, millions are on their way to hell with the devil.
SMH, so much for putting things in place

They are all a bunch of clowns.

Did you proofread what you just typed up here?
Did you muse over the cat and police dogs picture I attached up there, asking for an appropriate caption?

frank317:
As far as I am concerned u don't even have a point to make... Whenever I read ur post I wonder if u were responding to what I wrote.
U are not making any sense to me sorry.

I was just about wondering when you will admit you are out of your depth....
Scurry away with your tail hid and dangling between your limp legs

jesusjnr:
I gonna kick things off with this saying of his concerning women, for Paul said:
"Let your women keep silence in the churches:
for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience,
as also saith the law.
1Corin 14:34.(KJV).

This writing of his is one of the most glaring mistakes that he made that even the staunchest of his fans would agree that this saying was never inspired by the Spirit Of God,
but purely a product of his flesh, as this is arguably one of the most sexist saying that one could ever come across in the whole of the Bible.
For it's not that she shouldn't be allowed to lead a church, for that'd be even less severe even though yet erroneous,
but this is that she shouldn't even speak in the church.
The pharisees were seen to be very sexist figures as they'd bring a woman to Jesus with the allegation that she was caught in the very act of adultery, and it beggars the question,
if it's possible for one to be caught alone in the very act of adultery?

jesusjnr:
And if not then where was the man that she was caught in the very act of adultery with? but it was just a reflection of their oppressive and repressive mindset towards those of the opposite sex. Another instance among others was with respect to their opposition to the saying of Jesus concerning marriage when he implied that it was wrong for a man to divorce his wife,(Mt 5:32, 19:3-12), for it was not that they cared at all about the law of Moses but that they didn't have any respect for women, and hence wanted to be divorcing them for any reason at all, so they were only looking justify such actions with the law but Jesus let them know that it was not right but that it was only for the hardness of their hearts that Moses gave such a law. So obviously despite that it was not to that same degree, it was this same sexist trait of the pharisees that reared it ugly head in Paul on that occasion and was behind that demeaning and most insulting saying about women.

jesusjnr:
And so despite that many of the church claim that all of Paul's writings were inspired of God and without any single mistake, it's almost a mission impossible to try and find any church which keeps this particular saying of Paul concerning women. So if it's truly inspired of God as they claim it to be, and not a mistake that emanated from the flesh, then they should tell us why they have refused to keep it? God has shown overtime that he had absolutely nothing to do with that saying of Paul concerning women, as he has used several women mightily in the past not just to speak in the churches but also to lead churches. And one excellent example of such is a woman called Kathryn Kulman who he used to rare degree to show his mighty works, that it'd be difficult to mention the name of several men in the same breath as hers in recent history with respect to the extent to which God used her to show his works, that she became a huge inspiration to many men in the church, inclusive of church leaders such as Benny Hinn

jesusjnr:
And Benny Hinn's one of the leading church leaders on Earth, both in name and in terms of mighty works, and if there's a name of anyone of recent times that's synonymous with his ministry, it's got to be Kathryn Kulman, a woman, as he's just can't stop talking about her. So that's an instance in the past that God proved that Paul was on his own when he said that, and up till this day God's still using women mightily in the church. But this is to the confounding of some who'd accepted that saying of Paul concerning women as the word of God, as they think it goes contrary to "the word of God" whenever that happens. But the truth's that it was never the word in the first place but only the word of man and of the flesh, even though it was included in the Bible, and emanated from the teachings of a true apostle of Jesus called Paul. For God is not a respecter of the word of the flesh neither does he keep the rules of men, so God use of women in the church contrary to that saying of Paul's because it's not his word

Are these the so called errors in Paul's teaching
and his words that fell short of the standard of Jesus?

As I earlier mentioned, I once, a long time ago, initially felt like you do about Paul
but later came to realise it was all just a false alarm
It's happy days, once you get to know how Paul writes and get to undertand how his mind constructs

Lastly, tell me who your friends are (i.e. leading church leaders on Earth are) and I'll tell you who you are.

frank317:
U obviously want to waste my time.

"Many atheists pretend to have discovered the secret to intelligence once they reject Christ but that is really nonsense.
Some whose arguments I once knew are now very intellectually lazy since rejecting Christ.
It is perfectly normal to atheism to be that way because atheism is a reaction against emotional and intellectual stress.
It is by definition very lazy philosophically."
- Ihedinobi: 8:41pm On Oct 23 ©

You've so far ticked almost all the boxes
Played the emotional card - check mark
Played the ad hominem card - check mark
Played straw man - check mark
Have an inner twisted mind - check mark
Have no stamina - check mark

I willingly pay attention to you
because if you are sharing something worthwhile, then its time, really not wasted.
Nothing valuable can be lost by taking time

There is a difference between suffer fools gladly and your "obviously want to waste my time" funny feeling
It's a perspective thing

Do you know what time it is, frank317?
It's high time you drop the sentimental nonsense and excuse(s)
Wake up and smell the coffee frank317

The light of the truth can be harsh to those that are in the dark.
It's why, sometimes it’s enough, just to plant the seed, walk away,
and leave the flower, to grow on its own.

frank317:
Anger with a God again...
The answer u gave in ur last post I quoted was the same thing Ihedinobi replied...
Was wandering why u came in like u had something new to say

What answer did I give, that you claim is the same thing Ihedinobi replied

frank317:
Are we discussing a completely different topic here?

I hope we arent
but just to be sure we are singing from the same hymn book, the topic is: Why didnt God kill Satan from the onset?

frank317:
Well... I might not be a programmer, but coming up with my kind of stories required deep out of the box thinking...

It is a disadvantage that you arent at the least, a fledgling coder or programmer.

Rudimentary knowledge of coding or programming would make a world of difference in your understanding
that will prevent you from asking or quering, how if God knows, did God still went ahead creating Adam, knowing Adam will fail etcetera

frank317:
Well back to topic...
Actually my little narration above sums up what u mean when when u say God knew man would fail
if he gave him free will and pit some plan in place to redeem man...
I guess this messy world we are in is a result of his well thought out plan.

You have started again showing inadequate awareness of the facts.
Adam isnt the first given free will. Adam isnt the first to sin or if you like, isnt the first to fail
So you see, before Adam made his debut, we've had a situational problem,
calmly hanging in the shadow & wing, eager and keen to fester, if given half the chance

frank317:
I am not absolved from being called disgusting...
How does that stop me from seeing this shitty believe of urs as disgusting.

You're acting as if your fart has a deodorized good smell.
That's how and why I typed that you made a hypocritical remark.

What specifically and where exactly is the disgust in the comment you turned your nose up at

frank317:
Why then are u prolonging issues.

You come across as a highly imaginative, easy going, clever and smart guy
so what are you grousing about?
Why and what about God are you angry over?
Do you think you remotely have a legitimate right to settling a score with God?
Why the highly charged up negative energy?
Have you a beef and/or problem with God?
What gangan is the problem bro?
What issues are you accusing me of prolonging frank317?

frank317:
Isn't this the reason why I gave this response to Ihedinobi:

God knew they would fail if he gave man free will and he started putting plans in place...
He was like..
"Hey Jesus my son. I am going to give man free will and he will fail so prepare urself for sacrifice in 4000 years time."
He also put plans in place to curse Adam and Eve and pursue them from the garden of Eden.
He also put plans in place to destroy the earth with water in 2000 years time.
And he put plans in place by building hellfire for those who use their free will wrongly..

This is lacklustre, below par and as dull as ditchwater conjecture laced with ignorance

You are too uninformed and reveal your inadequate awareness of facts
and unsurprisingly, is why there are more holes than Swiss cheese in your warped summation

#IfYouKnowYouKnow
If you know, you know and who no know, no go know

No wonder you're an author, as opposed to, at the least, be a fledgling coder or programmer

frank317:
Its a disgusting belief I think.

What a hypocritical remark to make.
Are you absolved from being disgusting and/or from never being disgusting?

The cheek of it, calling good old fashion basic algorithm disgusting. Pffft. SMH

frank317:
Pls does anyone else understand what this guy is saying

I sympathise with you and your limitation (s)

frank317:
It will be a welcome expectation if they don't fail...
Is this in ur mind or in Gods mind?

Its the former tuned into the latter

frank317:
If God already knew they will fail...
Why is he hoping they won't?
Perhaps he was not sure they will actually fail?

He is not hoping they won't
but it'll be nice if they didn't, as this conversation at the least, wouldn't be seeing the light of the day.

Having said that, the reality is that failing will ultimately make them a better person
and decisively be able to deal with the other situational problem

God is aware and sure they will disappoint
What was put in place is evidence He knew they will.
Work had been planned and put on standby to get set into motion from after when they will fail from eating the fruit

frank317:
U guys like twisting simple things just to get away with ur unreasonable beliefs.

Should we even be going back and forth with this?

Its as simple as ABC

If God knew that Adam and Eve were going to fail... Then Adam and even couldn't have made the choice not to fail.
If God knew Adam and Eve were Going to fail and Adam and Eve made a choice that didn't make them fail then what God knew was wrong...
Or God was just guess that they might fail.

I knew its only going to be a matter of time before you start casting aspersions.
Please hold on to your knickers and stop getting emotional

It will be a very good and welcome expected outcome if they don't fail
and the implication is that we wouldn't in the first place be having this conversation

As I said earlier, I know you are an author frank317
but I am not sure if you're savvy at all in coding and/or programming
because the implication can also aptly be told with feature(s) of coding or programming

frank317:
To make sure u know the implication of ur answer

The implication of what answer?

frank317:
OK good

OK good exactly
and I am quite glad you accept plus agree that God is omniscient, knows the end from the beginning, knows everything.

frank317:
U said God knew they will fail, and u say they didn't have to fail.
Are u say what God knew was probably wrong?

No, I am not saying, what God knew was probably wrong
neither am I saying God's knowledge was a guess work.

Do you remember the context of how the two distinct comments were made?
You cojoined two disjunct comments I made to two different questions
and made it appear as if it is a solo comment

frank317:
Did God know man will fail or not?

MuttleyLaff:
>>>Yes,

frank317:
How can he trust them when he already knew they would fail?

MuttleyLaff:
>>>A moment of choice, is a moment of truth.
It is because they didnt have to fail

frank317:
If God knew they will fail and they don't fail based on the choice they have.
Can u tell me the implication of this on what God knew.

I know you are an author frank317
but I am not sure if you're savvy at all in coding and/or programming
You see, the implication aptly can be told with feature(s) of coding or programming

frank317:
I am Frank, remember.


My reason for what?

I said I like the reasoning(s) behind your question(s)

frank317:
Did God know man will fail or not?

Yes,
but your asking this question as if you dont know that God is Omniscient

frank317:
How can he trust them when he already knew they would fail?

A moment of choice, is a moment of truth.
It is because they didnt have to fail
but then as budaatum will say:"...it's your God-given right to choose whichever path you want to go..."
and if they do choose to fail (i.e. not toe the line), then they'll come back stronger and better persons

1zynnvn:
How can you have choice when the other option is damnation.
Armed robber-"Gimme your money or I'll shoot you"
man-"No, I won't give you "
Armed robber -*shoots*

This is flawed on so many levels.
The armed robber, is doing what armed robbers are best known to do
Taking from a person, by threat of force or assault, what is not lawfully the armed robber's

1zynnvn:
Lawyer: Armed robber is innocent, he gave the man a choice.

"Woe to you lawyers!
For you have taken away the key of knowledge.
You did not enter yourselves, and you hindered those who were entering."
- Luke 11:52

"But the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God's purpose for themselves, not having been baptized by John."
- Luke 7:30

1zynnvn:
God: I'm giving you a choice, worship me or don't
And go to hell.

How do you think one worships God?
Put worship aside for a moment.
Where and how the whole matter start?
What did the whole matter in the beginning start with?

1zynnvn:
Somebody should explain this

Give it a rest

Ihedinobi3:
I completely agree, of course. I have no problem being called crazy for being a believer.
I was making a point...or two

I know you dont
frank217 first called you crazy
but when you tit-for-tat back to him, he registered a protest, flicking out a "Isn't a that why we are here? To call each other crazy" sic card

Ihedinobi3:
I should point out, however, that there is nothing crazy about being a believer.
That they say we are does not mean that they are right.
The world has philosophy backwards. Christ has it right.

What others cant get head round they call crazy
but really it isnt crazy in the medically certifiable sense

Ihedinobi3:
I'm not a philosophy enthusiast.
An old friend of mine, once very active on this forum, MrAnony1, was and is a philosophy aficionado.
He can show you how perfectly logical the Christian Faith is.
I don't need philosophy to know though

I know MrAnony1, we were to play chess before he moved over to Naija

Ihedinobi3:
Many atheists pretend to have discovered the secret to intelligence once they reject Christ but that is really nonsense.
Some whose arguments I once knew are now very intellectually lazy since rejecting Christ.
It is perfectly normal to atheism to be that way because atheism is a reaction against emotional and intellectual stress.
It is by definition very lazy philosophically.

You can spot the ones who became disenchanted and resentful because of one reason or the other
You also can tell the strongly bitter, twisted, cynical and high negatively charged up ones.
There are also the not-yet-ready-to-be-unplugged ones, who have become inured to the overcharged up negative energy juice.

Ihedinobi3:
The same is true of all shades of unbelief.
Being a Christian is where the hard work is.

It is harder being anything else than being a believer
What makes the work easy for a believer is grace and the Holy Spirit

Ihedinobi3:
So, we don't "have to be crazy".

You have to be crazy at times, sometimes act crazy, sometimes say or do crazy things

Like Noah obeying God and building an ark

To an outlooker, hearing her reply, wont it sound crazy to him/her? (i.e. 2 Kings 4:14-26)
The Shunammite woman whose child had died
but when asked "Is all well with the child?"
She answered, "All is well"

Peter asking to walk on water, doesnt that sound crazy? (i.e. Matthew 14:22-33)

The lady with the issue of blood touching the hem of Jesus' garment for healing

Ihedinobi3:
It takes quite a bit of deliberate foolishness to choose to become an atheist.
The atheist essentially ignores all the evidence of his senses by claiming that all he can detect through his senses is all there is.

"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God..."
- Psalm 14:1

People think Psalm 14:1, is speaking ill of atheist, that it is making wickedly cheap potshots
but no, that verse, Psalm 14:1 and another one, Psalm 53:1,
are just being frank to the fact about a supposedly knowledgeable person
concluding and making a wrong decision (i.e. foolish) concerning the existence of God.

Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit bowl or fruit salad. The fool might though.
So we see, it is a wisdom problem, we have on our hands with atheists here about God

Ihedinobi3:
Anyway, my point is that there is nothing crazy about being a Christian.

I know, especially not in the medically certifiable sense
but then as Paul would say, in 2 Corinthians 5:13:
If it seems we are crazy, it is to bring glory to God
And if we are in our right minds, it is for your benefit.

Ihedinobi3:
That is why I have no trouble being called crazy by unbelievers.
I have played apologist before and then I have pursued spiritual growth (still doing so everyday)
and I can tell you, atheists crumble very fast if you decide to go toe to toe with them.
Their knowledge of the Bible is so bad that they cannot string together any serious objection to it.
And they are too lazy to make any real arguments of their own for atheism

I can attest to the whole comment and especially the emboldened

Ihedinobi3:
Our bodies are the Temple of the Holy Spirit and the Church together is also God's Building or God's Temple.

But in the Tribulation, the Third Temple commissioned by God will be built in Jerusalem from where the Lord Jesus will reign in the Millennium

True

frank317:
Yes..

An admirable honest and sincere emphatic reply

frank317:
If already knew they would fail...

I like how you want to reason this
but what about if there is more than the eyes sees

frank317:
what he trusting them for?

He owns them that right to be trusted so He trusted them frank317
It's as simples as that frank317

frank317:
I am judging from the things coming from u here bro... Its crazy.
Ya right... Have fun.
At least I have the right to tell it to ur face that u sound crazy.

Ihedinobi3:
Yeah, I totally understand.
I believe that you are crazy too to be an atheist.

frank317:
Isn't a that why we are here? To call each other crazy.
But its not for us to see.. We have viewers right? Let them be the judge.

Ihedinobi3:
No, I'm not here for that.
I'm here to make sure that the record about what the Bible actually says is straight.
The whole "calling each other crazy" bit is incidental. And you don't really need the viewers to judge.
You can simply look at your arguments and question whether they have been straightforward and kept to the rules of logic.

²⁰Then Jesus went home. Another crowd gathered so that Jesus and his disciples could not even eat.
²¹When His family heard about it, they went to get him.
They said, "He's out of his mind!
(i.e. He is crazy, He's gone mad, He has lost His senses)"
- Mark 3:20-21

"So if we were crazy, it was for God;
if we are sane, it is for you."
- 2 Corinthians 5:13

Being called crazy comes with the terrain

Don't be offended when people call you crazy.
I wear being called crazy, like a badge of honour
I put it on head like a shrimp bwahahaha ha
I love others I can demonstrate my crazy with

We have to be crazy, because staying sane will fairk you up
You have to be crazy, as it sure does help being crazy
It keeps you from being insane or becoming an atheist. Bwahahaha ha

---

---

---

Ihedinobi3:
Quite true.

I just want to mention that there are things the Lord Jesus did that were unique to Him only as God-Man, God's Perfect Sacrifice and a Prophet of Israel. We can't legitimately do the same things.

When He made a whip of cords and drove the traders from the Temple, He acted as the Son of God.
The Temple is God's Palace and during the Millennium, it is from there that the Lord Jesus will reign over the whole earth.
So, He had a right to do something like that.
It was expected of the Christ, since the Temple is the Christ's Palace.

Additionally, it was the traders that He drove out of the Temple.
We are not told that He did anything to the Pharisees.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also;
and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father"
- John 14:12

Without really minding John 14:12 up there, let's get back to the temple matter

Where the temple at right now?
What's the temple now?
Who is temple now?

Ihedinobi3:
MuttleyLaff, I'm very happy to see that you agree with me as much as you do.

Some people come into each other lives to sharpen themselves

The truth is priceless especially in these times its rare
and the only people who are mad at anyone writing the truth, are those people who are living a lie

Ihedinobi3:
Needless to say, I believe that you are right that our Lord set an example for us in how He took the Pharisees to task.
I also believe that we should not go looking for trouble as we don't see evidence in the Bible that He ever did with the Pharisees.
So, while there are times when I will challenge, rebuke or basically denounce a teacher for bad teaching and behavior,
I try to avoid provoking them if I can.

Jesus flogged and chased some people with a whip

Ihedinobi3:
About the caption, you requested, I'm afraid I'm not that good at captions. LOL.
I just saw a mad rush waiting to happen. And I have the vaguest understanding of its application to the issue.
Perhaps you could explain to me?

Caption it: Stress and Robustness Test

That picture is a typical case of, a moment of choice, is a moment of truth.
Unleash the dogs, set them free with a cat, straying with no care in the world
Will their nature get the better of them?
Will self-restraint, self-control and self-discipline rule the day?

Looks like there is no situation problem going on in the picture
The fox can be set to guard the henhouse and nothing will happen to the chicken.
The cat can be set to guard the cream/milk and nothing will happen to the cream/milk.

What will become of Satan, if My resting Hand on Satan is lifted off?
What will become of Adam and Eve, if I trust them to be left alone with an unguarded tree they are forbidden not to eat from?
When faced with an adverse condition, will Satan withstand it or will Adam and Eve overcome it?
What choice will they make and/or take?

Let the die be cast. Whichever way the wind blows, God will be at the end of the choice(s) made

The destination, is that picturesque

Ihedinobi3:
About the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, I believe you have a point.
However, I learned from my own teacher that it was through that fruit that we received an expanded conscience.

Your teacher, is so spot on with that it was through that fruit that we received an expanded conscience.

Adam and Eve's conscience, prior to eating the fruit, importantly only had to contend with whether it was right or wrong to eat the fruit

I once read that the true test of a man's character is what he does when no one is watching
but Adam and Eve, prior to eating the fruit, because of lack of experiences (i.e. as in, no experiential knowledge of Good and Evil) were character-less.

The faculties of the spirit, comprises of: Fellowship, Conscience, Discernment or Intuition,
but conscience, zeroing on it, after the spiritual disconnect brought, about by death, from eating the fruit, became marred

Conscience, then, being no longer under the influence of divine grace and greatly weakened, can no more be trusted to do its work
and so man's character, that needs to be shaped or built up, had experiences to look up to for this to be done
Man's character is shaped from his/her scraps with danger, from cuts and bruises of life, from pleasurables, thrills, sweetness of life etcetera

Mr A's character is different to Mr B's character
This is because our different experiences, shapes our individual character,
and its practically, character that determines what right or wrong action we take about a matter

Ihedinobi3:
Adam and Eve did not need to know about good and evil in the Garden since everything was perfect there.

I totally agree with you that Adam and Eve did not need to know about good and evil in the Garden since everything was perfect.
There was no need for them to have experiential knowledge of Good and Evil
They didn't need to personally experience all that is "Beautiful" and all that is "Adversity"

Ihedinobi3:
They only had one rule:
Don't eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
That was pretty straightforward.
Not complex at all, so all the work their conscience had to do was remind them not to eat the fruit from that one tree

Actually they had more than one rule (e.g. rule to multiply, replenish etcetera)
and significantly only had one specified forbidden rule,
Its directive was clear and pretty straightforward about not to eat the fruit of the, "the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil"

Ihedinobi3:
Not complex at all, so all the work their conscience had to do was remind them not to eat the fruit from that one tree

I believe their conscience guided them how to behave towards the tree
and even reminded them not to eat the fruit of the tree
This is evident from the conversation that transpired between Eve and the serpent
Eve wrestled with her conscience, trying to justify the reason, why she ought to eat the fruit

They had a sense of right and wrong but overruled conscience.
Eve's defence is, from being deceived
and Adam's defence, was to blame God, saying God was responsible

Anyway, they had a guilty conscience afterwards over their "... be like God, knowing good and evil" desires, and ultimately ended up hiding from God
This obviously, after they decoded that, they have been sold down the river by the serpent
and that their hopes, expectation and desire to ... be like God, knowing good and evil" actually comes with a huge price
The enormity of what, knowing good and evil, means, and the extent of it, was soul wrecking and wrenching experience,
Eve was inconsolable (i.e. Genesis 3:16)

Ihedinobi3:
However, once they disobeyed God, they could no longer live in His Presence

The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was tucked away in a corner of the Garden of Eden
It was prominently and centrally placed in the middle of the Garden of Eden alongside with the Tree of Life.
It is because of the Tree of Life that they were evicted from continuing living in Eden, barred from reentering and prevented from squatting

From eating the fruit, death, the dividing line, has separated them from God.
The spiritual disconnect, came in from eating the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil
Now they have to take on and put up with the spewing contents of death's pandora box

Ihedinobi3:
That meant that they would have to have some way of dealing with Satan's assaults upon them outside of the Garden.
They would need a much expanded conscience to appreciate right and wrong outside of fellowship with God
or else the human race simply wouldn't survive (witness Abel's murder at the hands of his brother Cain).
The fruit provided that to them

Abel's murder at the hands of his brother Cain, is one of the by-products of eating the fruit

Sorrow actually made an appearance first before murder came on to the scene
To God that was mediocre sorrow, as so declared, sorrow will be greatly multiplied to experience

Ihedinobi3:
Once they ate it, they became cognizant of good and evil (Gen 3:22)
and that was also how they knew they were in serious trouble when the Lord came to "hang out" with them (Gen 3:8-11).

Once they ate it, they opened a "Pandora box" or floodgates for all sorts of by-products

As earlier mentioned, the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil figure of speech, is a merism.

Good, in that context, is translated from a word, that means and typifies "Beautiful"
Evil, in that context, is translated from a word, that means and typifies "Adversity".

The "Beautiful", is, as in, all and everything in between, thats dandy and good
and the "Adversity", is, as in, every hardship, bad and ugly, difficult or unpleasant situation that possibly can happen.

Once they ate, it paved the way to begin having first hand experiences of several parts of all that's "Beautiful" and all that's "Adversity"
They have become gods, to begin judging between beautiful and adversity.
Good times, bad times, what's pretty, what's ugly, what's bitter, what's sweet, what's pain, what's pleasure, what's orgasmic, what's frigid,
screaming, laughing, smiling, crying, commotion, tranquility, mourning, partying etcetera

Essentially after eating the fruit, the whole shebang spectrum will unleash into the world.

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frank317 are you of the view, it is unfair on Adam and Eve for God to trust them
and be left alone with the The tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil?
cc paxonel, budaatum, vaxx

Ihedinobi3:
I agree.
As I said elsewhere, however, it is unfortunate that a teacher should do as this one did. Bible teachers are guides.
Without the gift and adequate preparation, we are apt to become like the Pharisees and really damage those who listen to us.
This is why I don't cut such people much slack.

""You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus,
"and do you not understand these things?"
- John 3:10

Jesus was always at loggerheads with the Pharisees, the religious leaders and teachers of biblical Israel
Castigating them for their inadequacies, for their misplaced priorities, for not setting good examples etcetera

Ihedinobi3:
Excellent. This is very good.

You already know my position on this. I'll just try to explain it from the angle that you mooted here.

As you said, God is solving a problem using man as the tool. And you were right that the two problems are sin and replacement.

So, let's go back to before creation started, for want of a better expression.

God wanted an eternal family to share Himself with. This is what we know from the Bible.
And we also know that He did not want people who submitted to Him perforce, that is, by default.
They had to be conscious in their choice to love and serve the Lord God.

This is why He created angels and later men with free will.

However, even before He created anything He knew exactly what was going to happen.
He knew of the rebellion and He prepared a way to heal His Creation after it happened.
That way was the Lord Jesus Christ and He was going to become Man in order to do this.

Now, when angels were created, imagine that God was not going to provoke the rebellion.
He was only going to give the angels an opportunity to be that Family if they wanted.
But remember that everything God does is perfect and precise.
The angels were a fixed number in multitude. They weren't created at random. There was a perfect number of them.
And God is such that even the loss of one would make the whole less than perfect.

Now, the angels carried on like they were supposed to for we-don't-know-how-long until Satan got it into his head that he could become God and get away with it.

Satan is a creature and it is pertinent to point out that because the angels were not supposed to rebel,
they were created with near-perfect knowledge of all things and great power. But they were still creatures.
However, it is important to point out that because of the extent of their knowledge and their power,
the angels did not make revocable decisions about anything. Once, their mind was made up on pursuing a given course of action, there was no possibility of repentance. This is going to be important later.

Satan was the wisest of these awesome creatures and the most powerful too.
And he forgot that as great as he was, he was still just a creature.
He had not even begun to plumb the surface of God's Power but he gave himself over to the lie that he could outwit God.
That was what started this whole mess.

https://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/attachments/off-topic-humor-discussion/91023d1400400429-breaking-giant-cat-attacks-london-merged-german-shepherd-dogs.jpg
Ihedinobi3, I need from you, a caption for the above
Relevant facts will emerge from the appropriate caption, that will explain what started this whole mess

Ihedinobi3:
I have already stated what he wanted and what he used to deceive his fellow angels into backing him up in another post.

The important point here is that one of the lies he told the other angels was that God's Hands would be tied by their rebellion.
God wouldn't be able to punish them without violating the perfection of His Creation.
If you remember the parable of the lost coin or of the prodigal son, you will appreciate why Satan thought they could get away with their rebellion.

Until they sinned, there was no known punishment for sin for the obvious reason that there was no sin to punish and they were created perfect in a most enjoyable, perfect universe.
So, they really did not know what God could do to punish sin. But they did know that God was powerful enough to do something.

How sin works is through arrogance. The sinner thinks that they can exploit some "hole in the knowledge", that is, some loophole.
Because they had never seen God punish sin and because they knew that God only creates perfection,
they ignored that He was God and could do things they had never seen and even use imperfection to work perfection.

Satan thought in the same way that you often find atheists thinking now, that God can be boxed into a corner with a contradiction.
In the case of that rebellion, the thought was that He couldn't be both merciful and just. If He meted out justice, it would ruin His Creation.
If He was merciful, they would never repent and therefore He must tolerate their rebellion and give up His Place as Ruler of Creation.

We know that things did not work out that way.

God let each angel have his opportunity, ample opportunity in fact to decide what side they wanted to be on.

Once everyone had made their irrevocable choices, He destroyed that universe with water.

This is where we find things in Gen 1:2.

After that Judgment, God put the next phase of His Plan into action. The universe was reclaimed from the water and remade to support physical life again. This was so that God could create Man through whom God was going to refute all of Satan's lies during his campaigning among the angels.

So, you can see that you are right that Man was created to answer the problem of sin.

Man was made with much more limited knowledge and considerably less power and ability than the angels.
This makes it possible for us to repent our actions, to change our minds as our knowledge improves or deteriorates.

This ability to change our minds is how God demonstrates to the angels that if Satan or any of the other angels were willing to repent, He could save them too. Man sinned, just like the angels had done, (and, in fact, Satan's temptation of Eve was a deliberate effort to try to kill them because God had said that if they sinned they would die. If they died then they and their offspring couldn't replace the rebellious angels.) but God prepared a way to save them from the Death that was due to them if any of them repented.
This proves that God has the ability to reconcile His Mercy and His Justice.
He did that in the Lord Jesus Christ by giving up His One and Only Son to die the eternal Death that is due to sin so that we don't have to die anymore.

Now, as human beings repent of their rebellion everyday and put their trust in Jesus Christ, God gets replacements for Satan and the fallen angels.

So, again, your submission that it is about filling up the vacuum left by renegades is proved correct.

In Man, and more specifically the Church, God demonstrates to the angels - especially the elect ones who are so involved in our business of Faith, defending us against the rebel angels who would annihilate us in a heartbeat given the chance, and observing us before the Throne of God in Heaven - that His is all the Wisdom and all the Power and all the Glory and that His Love is larger than creation can plumb or measure in any way.
Let me know if you need anything clarified.

You filled your boots well enough, and I concur 99%,
so I dont think the need to clarify anything is necessary,
but I'll just add this observation and a rhetorical question.

Iniquity or sin was found in Satan, and same sin, was found in Adam
What apart from that, as in, what prior to sin, did Satan and Adam have in common?
For inquiring minds, the power of choice, is what they had in common.

Have you ever wondered what is a supreme test?
If you wish to prove what a celestial being and man really is, give them the power of choice test.

Satan, was allowed the power to make a choice between good and evil
Satan failed the stress test.
Adam that came after, though was instructed to subdue, still gave in to exerted pressure and failed the stress test too

Going out on a limb, I will add that Satan knew sin causes separation
as in fact that's what death is, "... surely die" means, a dividing line.
Still the naughtiness in Satan brought him to Eden
and the rest about the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil is history

Wisdom and knowledge without God in the equation is very dangerous (i.e. Ezekiel 28:17 and Genesis 3:6)

What I am about to type next, is not me making up, what the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil means
but me sharing a few things many arent aware of about "the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil"

In those famous verses, we all fully know about, where and/or when the "the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil" is used,
instead of Good, the actual and original word used in the original text was "Beautiful"
and instead of Evil, the actual and original word used in the original text was "Adversity"

Well, the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil figure of speech, is a merism.

Merism, is a figure of speech that has a combination of two contrasting words to refer to an entirety and all parts within each of them
The figure of speech "It's raining cats and dogs" though has a pair is not a merism but is a metaphor

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" is a merism
meaning everything other thing you can think of was created
"Good evening ladies and gentlemen" is a merism
as there would be tall ladies and gentlemen, short ladies and gentlemen, fat ladies and gentlemen, thin ladies and gentlemen etcetera

Reiterating, the phrase "the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil", as a matter of fact, actually is a merism.

The Good in "the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil" signifies, all that's beautiful in life
and the Evil in "the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil" signifies, all that's about adversities in life

Good, in that context, is translated from a word, that means and typifies "Beautiful"
Evil, in that context, is translated from a word, that means and typifies "adversity".

Without mincing words, whoever eats of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil,
is going to be forced to deal with a whole gamut of beautiful and adversity

Dont take my word for it, go check out the meaning of "towb" (i.e. the original word Good was translated from)
and "ra" (i.e. the original word Evil was translated from)

Now the niggling and persistent problem sin (i.e. miss the mark) is still there
but hey, fast forward to when it all ends, there is no more death or sorrow or crying or pain.

All these things of the past are gone forever and so is sin
and we can be reassured that, with no more sin, nothing will happen to chickens, when/if the fox is sent to guard the henhouse
and nothing will happen to the cream/milk, when/if the cat is left to guard the cream/milk

Both problems are solved.
No more sin, and vacuum is replenished

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paxonel:
you are very on point.

I have imagined what would have become of the brain which was meant for solutions to problems if there were no natural and artificial problems doctored by the devil himself

Will all the investment of the brain and inventive capacity of humans become a big waste if there were no devil creating problems?

Necesssity is the mother of invention.

But then again i asked:
Are all problems caused by the devil?

If there are rivers to cross somewhere that is a situation problem like you said, which requires building of bridges, is the problem caused by the devil?

If these kind of problems existed before the devil started alluring Adam and Eve to commit sin,
was it sinful or not that these problems existed in the first place?

As you've alluded, all problems arent necessarily caused by the devil.
Sinful or sinning, from a Jewish perspective, actually means missing the mark or miss the real objective
If the bridge isnt built, then it more likely was not done from missing the mark

It is not sinful that these problems existed in the first place,
afterall in Gen 1:28, Adam was told in a formal or official manner, to subdue the earth
He was told to prevent anything harmful or unfavourable from developing from the earth

paxonel:
We all know that christ have solved the problem of sin which is death, created by the fall of Adam

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

but that did not stop situation problems like these which keep persisting till this day.

"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
- Revelation 20:10

"Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire.
This is the second death—the lake of fire."
- Revelation 20:14

Before Revelation 20:10 and Revelation 20:14 gets to happen, the contents of the "Situation problems" pandora box, like those which keep persisting till this day, will continue to come about until everyone has had a go at showng their true nature
We would, by the end of it, after all is done, as in tasted and finished eating the "bad apple", appreciate and prefer the "good apple".

Experience shapes character, and character determines action
a character totally without experience is all but a contradiction in terms
- excerpt from page 87, GOD - A BIOGRAPHY by Jack Miles

Character, is the mental and moral qualities distinctive to an individual
Since choice has being made to have the Knowledge of Good and Evil, now character is set into motion to be formed.

You saw what I wrote above,
concerning what, whoever that eats of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil, is going to be forced to deal with
Let me know, if I should throw more light on this comment, maybe to explain it more.
cc budaatum

OLAADEGBU:
Was that the reason he was the first person to break them?

"Moses relayed this message to the Israelites,
but on account of their broken spirit and cruel bondage, they did not listen to him."
- Exodus 6:9

No, Moses wasnt the first person to break the Israelites.
The Egyptians in collusion with Pharaoh were

LordReed:
Do you have evidence of this?

Absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence

LordReed:
You know someone who has given account?

Not yet.
Besides, how would I know anyone who has given account, before the appointed time