₦airaland Forum

Meaning is related to PURPOSE

DoctorAlien:
Hello bro!
How are you doing?

Having other things to do, I don't come here frequently.
This section can be tiring too.
You know, having to repeat things you've said over and over again.

It is by His grace,
it is a labour of love, sometimes a tinge of the occasional tough love thrown in

I have posts I started replying to, but stayed unfinished.
I might go back to them. If not they stay indefinitely on the back burner, afterall, c'est la vie

You come in here, not necessarily choosing your battles wisely
but to choose a stand and then express the point of view.
It can be like taking people along with you climbing "mountains",
and reassuring them on the way, that the view from the top is exhilarating and worth the struggle

DoctorAlien have you unlimited data bandwidth or near to that?
Have you ever watched the "Joan of Arcadia" CBS TV series?

francis247:
True words.
The spirit is no more
but our intellect; the soul our conscience, our moral compass.

Someone like you, as with most familiar with driving a car or riding a motor-cycle
know how a car's flat or dead battery is brought back to life
and/or know how a motor cycle thats being lying around or standing about for months/years is brought back to life

Ihedinobi3:
Hello MuttleyLaff.
How are you, bro?
Rarely see you and DoctorAlien anywhere here these days.
Or is it I that am rarely here?

I hope you are well, my brother.

We thank Abba for His blessing, favour, grace and mercies

Real brethren are always close even if they rarely see other.
I dont have check if you are well, as I know you are because I follow each and every remark you post

Did you, when it came out, get to watch "Joan of Arcadia"?

francis247:
Got what you what you first wrote now. No I haven't. Will do take a look at it.

Please because if you enjoyed and liked the "The Good Place" TV series, then you'll equally, if not more, find Joan of Arcadia right up your alley.

francis247:
Got what you what you first wrote now. No I haven't. Will do take a look at it.

Please because if you enjoyed and liked the "The Good Place" TV series, then you'll equally, if not more, find Joan of Arcadia right up your alley

francis247:
Say what?

You talked about the TV series "The Good Place"
so I asked, did you get to watch "Joan of Arcadia"?

Perfectbeing:
Hmm..
Well, if you take offense at me adding one extra number then accept my apology

Take offense ke
It's nothing more than just a statement of fact and observation

You must be at least, now pleased, that I better late than never, stopped keeping you waiting for a reply

francis247:
Life; everything related to it is meaningless and of no value except that which we ascribe it.
From language, culture, religion, morals, ethics, politics, etc.
They're all meaningless. The shame or guilt we feel whenever we've broken some moral, religious, social or cultural code is based on the established rules and principles that revolve around these elements of the life and the world we live in, the world we've created, the world which we've known from birth.
Same also applies to the guilt and shame we feel whenever we've committed some terrible social or grammatical blunder but sometimes we just laugh it off or simply wave it aside because at the end of the day, it means nothing, absolutely nothing. If you know, you know.

In as as much as religion like language, culture, tradition, morals, ethics, rules, laws, customs and conventions were made by man for the benefit as well the advancement of a peaceful and blissful stay of mankind here on earth, it, religion has its flaws, terrorism probably it's most fatal. It's just like everything else created by man supposedly for the good of his specie: From drugs, to gadgets and other technological advancements, they all have their side effects.
Religion no doubt has its many negative effects on our humanity but the lack of it in my unhinged opinion is much more; suicide and depression being the worst of them all.

BTW, who here has seen the TV series "The Good Place"?
Some hilarious afterlife cock and bullshit story. Very hilarious.

Did you ever get to watch "Joan of Arcadia"?

10:46 Who are you?
I've known you since before you're born
I'm going to ask you one more time
I AM God
You what?
God
Dont ever, talk to me, again

How did I beat that kid at chess?
He was using logic, you werent

Joan of Arcadia
cc Ranchhoddas, budaatum, you both & francis247 can give thanks later
Dont forget to click on to 102
and the rest to watch the whole series

If you cant argue against the imagined injustice yourself
If you have no one to advocate or represent you
If you have no one to fight your corner and position you find yourself in
If you have no one to litigate & successfully defend you.
Know that there is free legal aid to take advantage of on that day.

Perfectbeing:
Please give us the difference between
1. Heaven.

"This is what the LORD says:
"Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool.
Where is the house you will build for me? Where will my resting place be?"
- Isaiah 66:1

"The LORD has established His throne in the heavens,
And His sovereignty rules over all."
- Psalm 103:19

Heaven, is a celestial, unable to be seen with ordinary physical eyes HQ or command post of God,
whose extent of power, control, jurisdiction, authority and influence extends all the way to earth
The Isaiah 66:1b "... the earth is my footstool" & Psalm 103:19 "... And His sovereignty rules over all." remarks testify to this.

Perfectbeing:
2. Paradise.

I think it right and appropriate to quickly and fully, first, apprise you about paradise Perfectbeing.

Well, until Jesus' parable in the NT, sheol, in general,
without necessarily distinguishing between righteous or unrighteous souls, has been the realm of the dead or abode of the dead.

We have verses in OT (e.g. Psalm 9:17 etcetera) suggesting that the wicked go to sheol
but it was Jesus in the NT that brought things into perspective when he shared the hyperbolic illustration of sheol with the story of the Rich Man being elsewhere and Abraham with the Poor Man being on a different side to where the Rich Man is

From Jesus' parable, we got to know, that Sheol, actually has two sections with a dividing gulf (i.e. the dividing gulf is a demarcation)
The two sections were the Rich Man section and Abraham's bosom section

"Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise."
- Luke 23:43

Most people' last words are very profound, and Jesus' is no exception to this.
Jesus as a dying man, hung on a cross, uttered seven famous dying last words
Jesus' second famous dying last word was the Luke 23:43 remark to the thief and promising to be with the thief later that day in paradise

Those, initially and who would have been, in the good side of Sheol, (i.e. Abraham's bosom) are now in paradise, just where the thief too is

Paradise is an intermediate state
It is like being in an airport terminal's departure area
The area where you (i.e. think of the Rich man here) hold your ticket, boarding pass and wait with your luggages before taking a flight to your final destination

Some airlines, as a service to premium or selected passengers, operate airline lounges,
providing the premium or selected passengers with comforts in these lounges,
that are better than and beyond, those available in the airport terminal's departure area for regular or economy passengers

These premium or selected choice passengers (e.g. think of Father Abraham and the Poor man here),
enjoy plush and more comfortable seating, quieter environments, advantage perks are provided.
Other privileges may include private meeting rooms, telephones, wireless internet access and other business services, along with provision of free drinks and snacks to enhance passenger comfort.
- looks and sounds like a place of bliss, doesnt it?

1/ Do you know what happened, what Jesus did, a few weeks after He narrated that parable of the Rich Man and Poor Man named lazarus?
2/ Most of the verisimilitude characters in Jesus' parables, hardly have names, but the name of the poor man was given.
Do you know why Jesus, on purpose, gave Lazarus, as the name of the poor man, in that parable Perfectbeing?

Perfectbeing:
3. The kingdom.

"The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world"
- Luke 4:5

"Yours, LORD, is the greatness and the power
and the glory and the majesty and the splendor,
for everything in heaven and earth is yours.
Yours, LORD, is the kingdom; you are exalted as head over all."
- 1 Chronicles 29:11

Though you werent specific about the kingdom
the kingdom, nonetheless, is any form of king dominion,
as in, to control, direct, influence, exercise authority over etcetera a territory and people

Perfectbeing:
4. Kingdom of God.

"But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come upon you"
- Matthew 12:28

"But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you."
- Luke 11:20

"But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God".
- Luke 9:27

"Jesus answered and said unto him,
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
- John 3:3

"For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power."
- 1 Corinthians 4:20

²⁰And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said,
The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
²¹Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you
- Luke 17:20-21

It's a known fact & truth that Jesus, sometimes, interchangeably uses "Kingdom of God" and "Kingdom of Heaven"

Jesus in Luke 13:18-30, gave an illustration of what the "Kingdom of God" is like and what He can resemble it with
The "Kingdom of God" phrase, depending on the context used, has multiple meanings and/or interpretations.

However, fundamentally and without mincing words, it just means the rule, control, influence, exercising authority, power and government of God

In this context, it is the rule of God, God's rule over something, anything, someone, somebody, your heart for instance etcetera
which is why Jesus, in Luke 17:20-21 above, said the kingdom of God is within you or us

Perfectbeing:
5. Kingdom of heaven.

"²³Then Jesus said to His disciples,
“Truly I tell you, it is difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
²⁴Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
- Matthew 19:23-24
I earlier mentioned that Jesus, sometimes, interchangeably uses "Kingdom of God" and "Kingdom of Heaven"
Matthew 19:23-24 is one of the instances of Jesus, interchangeably using "Kingdom of God" and "Kingdom of Heaven" in a remark.

¹In those days John the Baptist came to the Judean wilderness and began preaching. His message was,
²“Repent of your sins and turn to God, for the kingdom of Heaven is near.
- Matthew 3:1-2

From that time Jesus began to proclaim and to say,
"Repent, for the kingdom of the heavens has drawn near!"
- Matthew 4:17

Without knowing for sure what context you have in your mind with the questions, I am hard-pressed doing justice answering this.
so it's suffice to say, fundamentally, the phrase "Kingdom of heaven" extends or stretches beyond Heaven itself.

The kingdom of Heaven is territorial, extending from Heaven to the end of designated points
(i.e. John the Baptist announcing it's near, to Jesus announcing it's drawn near)

Perfectbeing:
6. "To enter his rest."

And back it up with scriptures..

"²⁸Then Jesus said,
"Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest.
²⁹Take my yoke upon you. Let me teach you, because I am humble and gentle at heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
³⁰For my yoke is easy to bear, and the burden I give you is light.”"
- Matthew 11:28-30

This last one is very beautiful and comforting.
Mere seeing and reading "To enter His rest." puts one at ease

"To enter His rest." is nirvana, utopia, paradise, Eden revisited, all rolled into one

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Perfectbeing:
Still waiting for a reply..

PastorDavidAwuj:
Is this for me? Well, let me give it a go.

Heaven, Paradise, “enter into his rest”,
all mean the same thing- that’s God’s abode, also this is the final abode for every saved spirit.
You know the texts.

The kingdom, kingdom of God, kingdom of heaven,
these can be used interchangeably as they mean the same thing.
Anybody that has accepted Jesus as Lord and saviour is said to be in the kingdom of God already,
and all the entitlements of the kingdom belong to him.
You know the Bible texts for these as well

Perfectbeing:
It wasn't for you pastor. The question was meant for muttleylaff.

PastorDavidAwuj:
Ok

To be honest Perfectbeing, without acknowledging and recognising the fact that context is king,
I really dont see the relevance of the five then later changed to six questions
but still obliged you anyway.

PastorDavidAwuj:
New Post (Q&A: Is Speaking In Tongues Of The Devil?
Up next

"¹³And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon,
and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
¹⁴For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world,
to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty."
- Revelation 16:13-14

There is legitimate reason to say that certain speaking in tongues is of and/or from the devil
because the way speaking in tongues is being done today
as in, having church folk, 21st century believers uttering unintelligible words is bable, confused noise made by a number of voices
This is not speaking in tongues (i.e. not speaking in a foreign language) but is mere babbling by unintelligible utterraces

It is the end time deception of the demonic spirit in Rev 16:13-14, symbolised as three unclean spirits that looked like frogs
And how do frogs catch their prey?
Yes, using tongues to snare believers with their false speaking in tongues deception

To speak in tongues, means audibly saying something out
or make sounds with your voice to express your thoughts and feelings in a structured, conventional, intelligible and understandable way

Speak in tongues is language (i.e. tongues of man=human language)
and has the same meaning with mother tongue, native tongue, dialect, vernacular etcetera
For example, you can speak in vernacular, you can speak in your local dialect, might speak in a native tongue or speak in your mother tongue

Rev 16:13-14, is real and is here unfolding already in our presence
It is the end time deception of the demonic spirit in Rev 16:13-14,
symbolised as three unclean spirits that looked like frogs
And how do frogs catch their prey?
Yes, using tongues to snare believers with their false "speaking in tongues" deception, working miracles with false tongues

For Jews demand miraculous signs (i.e. ask for signs)
and Greeks ask for wisdom (i.e. philiosophy)
- 1 Corinthians 1:22

So you see that speaking in tongues is a sign, not for believers, but for unbelievers.
Prophecy, however, is for the benefit of believers, not unbelievers.
- 1 Corinthians 14:22

The primary purpose for speaking in tongues, was/is not, for use as a talisman,
neither to be used, as quicker or easier mystical shortcuts to prayers nor form of worship
Nor is it's purpose, to be used as, a form of means to confuse the devil or demons from understanding what the prayering/prayer is about

For all the 3 recorded times, speaking in other tongues, occurred in the bible,
it is visibly noted that, it happened each time, for the benefit of unbelieving Jews

For any that might doubt or have been misinformed, it is a well documented truth, as seen in 1 Corinthians 14:22 above
that speaking in tongues is not for believers, rather it is used as a sign for unbelievers (i.e. 1 Corinthians 1:22a)

FlirtyKaren:
Some students in Niger State were reportedly served noodles and egg in polythene bag,
as captured in photos making rounds on social media.
Twitter user @Martinsalive who shared the photos,
identified the kids as students of Zubairu Primary School Paiko in Niger State, Nigeria.

He wrote;
Students of Zubairu Primary School Paiko in Niger State, Nigeria
got served indomie and half egg in a polythene bag.
2.1 billion Naira was budgeted for this for 21 days by the APC-led state government. ~ Photo Credit Chidinma Onyejiuwa

Instead to be part of the solution, we are adding to the problem of serious threat to the environment, drainages, animal's wellbeing and consumer's health that plastics, polythenes etcetera in many direct and indirect ways causes.

delishpot:
I will take this contract of feeding school children soon.
When it's time I will recruit assistants on NL.
It shouldn't cost much to provide kids with healthy balanced meal.
Why this embarrassment?

With the grace, help and fear of God. IJN.

budaatum:
Why believe when I can know?

There is nothing wrong with doing both.
There isnt anything wrong in believing and knowing
I know things I dont believe

"Why believe when I can know?" you say
My response is, without human intelligence, what would become of us

budaatum:
Is it not existence that concerns us most?

Yes, existence now and existence thereafter

budaatum:
When I look down the road I want to cross, do I believe a car is not coming
or do I know a car is not coming before I walk into the road?

My sentiment too exactly
Take a wild guess budaatum, how many types of different faith biblically exists?

budaatum:
Why not observe and understand existence instead of believing the nonsense cooked up in a head?

I dont know anything about nonsense cooked up in a head
What is nonsense
I know there's plenty of sense in nonsense if one wish to look for it.

budaatum:
I don't believe because the actual act of choosing to believe is stupidly based on the desire to be ignorant
- a thing I've prayed against from age 4.
When Moses was going up a mountain, I would have been that one person who would have shouted, "Mo dude, wait up! I buda shall go up with you. Won't peep if you don't want me to".
After all, it's not as if Moses had told them they were unworthy. And of course I would have peeped!
The writers of the bible would have written, "and buda went up the mountain with Moses.
And though buda had promised not to peep at the face of the Lord God Almighty, buda peeped!
And buda was instantaneously turned into a stone for looking on the face of the Lord Almighty God.

""You shall set bounds for the people all around, saying,
'Beware that you do not go up on the mountain or touch the border of it;
whoever touches the mountain shall surely be put to death."
- Exodus 19:12

You for a moment really thought, it'll be the "turn in to stone" Noah's wife treatment you'll get

budaatum:
I don't believe when I can know, muttley, and when I don't know, I admit my non-knowing.
Some people are bad cooks muttley. They cook up nonsense in their own heads and believe it. That's not bad though.
They then go around telling others their poisoned cooking is good nosh!
If I'm going to cook up gods in my head and believe in them, my god will be the best god ever cooked.
You would be glad I'm not selfish with my cooking

All I can say to this comment is, truth will always stand the test of scrutiny

budaatum:
If your god tells you you are Human 1.0,
incapable of knowing because your god made you too stupid to know,
I strongly suggest you go do what the Igbos do and get a better God that would evolve you to Human 2.0, or 3 for that matter.
Anyone who worships a God of mystery it has not given you the ability to demystify is an inconsiderate God and a bad creator of a flawed product.
No God can be worthy of buda worship if it does not give buda the ability to know.

"Let us, therefore, come boldly unto the throne of his grace,
that we may obtain boldly and find grace to help in time of need."
- James 1:5

There is no other greater and/or better than God

budaatum:
I guess I value knowing much more than eternal life, muttley.
I'd rather know, is the why and the basis of my inability to believe the nonsense people cook up in their heads!

I think understanding shouldnt be part of your hang ups, misunderstanding is what you should guard against
What nonsense are people cooking up in their heads budaatum?

MrPRevailer:
Do you even believe a crippled can be healed in the name of Jesus?

budaatum:
No, I don't. I know what can though.

I think because the question is delphic, your answer to it will be misunderstood
Why dont you believe?
On what basis dont you believe?

I recall reading your testimony (i.e. test-ti-mo-ni) sometimes ago,
that it all started from cavorting & larking about in a river with suspect and dodgy water
"nkan gbe laiye yi" , it loosely means "we exist in a mysterious world"

paxonel:
we all know that the common idea among christians is that if you are sinful then you are not born again or good enough christian

I'll preferably follow Jesus' explanation or description of born again than what the common idea among christians is

budaatum:
Jesus (c. 4 BC – c. AD 30 / 33),
also referred to as Jesus of Nazareth and Jesus Christ, was a first-century Jewish preacher and religious leader. He is the central figure of Christianity. Most Christians believe he is the incarnation of God the Son and the awaited Messiah (Christ) prophesied in the Old Testament.

He was arrested and tried by the Jewish authorities, turned over to the Roman government, and was subsequently crucified on the order of Pontius Pilate, the Roman prefect.

I love the way he is said to have stood up to the religious people of his day telling them their understanding was wrong and that they did not temper the word with its spirit to steal from the poor.
Then the poor yelled, "Cricify him!" Irony, you'd think. Now he's their saviour, and I stick my neck out and say they still crucify him!

Jesus is my favorite favorite heretic.
The greatest atheist too.

Yimu

paxonel:
But there are people who have seen good about the kingdom and want to identify with it, but they were tagged unbelievers by people who claim to be born again simply because they cannot avoid committing sin?

1/ When and where has this happened?
2/ Who are the people you say, claim to be born again?

donnie:
Okay, I agree but try and read it.

If you insist.

zakim:
The Emir of Kano, Malam Muhammad Sanusi II, has said that he compelled all traditional title holders in Kano to undergo drug test in order to lead by example.

Sanusi stated this at a 1-day sensitization workshop against drug abuse organised by Daily Trust newspaper in Kano State yesterday.

Represented by Turakin Kano, Alhaji Abdullahi Lamido Sanusi, the emir said “I started with myself and then directed all district heads, village heads and ward heads to also undergo same test.”
Emir Sanusi said the Kano emirate council had made drug test mandatory before title is conferred,
adding “anybody that is found to be drug addict that person has automatically disqualified himself.
This is the tradition in Kano emirate council.
I introduced this so that I can lead by example.”

Sanusi called on parents to always keep eyes on their children as, according to him, charity always begins at home.

He also urged government to map out strategies to curtail the menace of drug abuse in the society.

“The menace of drug abuse is another Boko Haram.
It is a serious challenge not only to those in the corridors of power, but to every right thinking person,”
Sanusi and cautioned youth to desist from any act capable of leading them into drug abuse.
The emir said the emirate council would continue to contribute its quota towards curtailing the menace of drug abuse in Kano State and beyond.

He said the council would remain resolute in supporting any organisation in fighting the menace of drug abuse anywhere in the country.

The Emir commended Kano State government and the management of Daily Trust for organising the workshop, describing it as timely

Oluwo of Iwo, Jide Sanwo-Olu
Na joke ooo, na joke we dey ooo

paxonel:
No,
The difference between us and the disciples who followed christ is that, they had to go through all that tribulation or stress of walking with Jesus from city to city through the wilderness to Jerusalem before they could be saved.
But here we are getting salvation in a platter of Gold for free by simply believing.
So we are far better than them.

Thats why i keep saying it is far better to be a christian than to be born again.

We are claiming born again today but we never understand what people who were born again in the bible went through before they eventually became christians

You automatically are born again if you see discern and recognise the kingdom of God

You dont claim born again, you're born again based on what you perceive and/or see

Born again and your status as a believer, go hand in hand, they exist together and are connected

People will never see anything good about the kingdom
and that's because they are not born again, are not born from above, are not spiritually rebirthed
Regeneration, being born again, has not taken place in them

Jesus said in John 3:3, that
frankly speaking, no one can manage to discern,
no one is able to acknowledge by sight the demonstrations & power of the kingdom of God that connects Jesus with and as God
except the man is born again

Nicodemus, despite what he admitted seeing and knowing,
was wrestling, struggling and arguing in his mind, the divinity and person of Jesus

Jesus tried to give him support, confidence, hope, reassurance and allay his doubts, by saying, and this is, in a form of paraphrase:
Look, except a man be born again, he cannot acknowledge these things you've said you've seen about kingdom of God,
but Nicodemus, being none the wiser, just made fun and a mockery of the "born again" reality Jesus used and mentioned to him.

I am not saying Nicodemus is any,
but just saying, scoffers, mockers, cynics, pagans etcetera will never see anything good about the kingdom,
they dont believe in miracles as being from God
and that's because they are not born again, are not born from above, are not spiritually rebirthed

Why you think there are atheists?
It is because regeneration has not taken place in them.

People, just, like as with Judas, without in the first being truly born again,
do play along, up to the point of being pastors, before dropping it, to become atheists

"Truly, I say to you, among those born of women there has arisen no one greater than John the Baptist.
Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he."
- Matthew 11:11

"For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist:
but he that is least in the kingdom of God, is greater than he."
- Luke 7:28

About the issue of, getting salvation in a platter of Gold for free by simply believing, that you raised,
well this is because salvation is now obtained by grace and no more by law
Salvation is now a gift, freely given, out from the work of Jesus
and is not something to be earned from your own work, sweat or endeavour

I could go further or go on and on about John the Baptist etcetera
but Matthew 11:11 and Luke 7:28 above is instructive enough
Besides that will be for another time or another window of opportunity

donnie:
What bugged Nicidemus is the same thing that bugs every sinner...every person who's not born again.

The kingdom of God is God's domain. The reign of His glory, His righteousness, holiness, peace and dominion.

The bolded above is therefore correct and in line with scripture.
However, seeing the kingdom of God is one thing; entering it is another.

Several Old testament prophets, like Isaiah, David etc saw they kingdom of God afar off. Some by faith even enjoyed some of the benefits of the kingdom but didn't enter until their death.

Hebrews
11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

11:14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

The bolded above are referring to the kingdom of God...not heaven. Heaven is a location in the kingdom of God.

Christ has brought us into this kingdom.

Colossians 1:13 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,
Hebrews 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly,

So much to say, but I'll stop here.

Did you say a sentence?

I know you need these explanations.

Without even reading your post, I know you've sidestepped the question and gone off on a tangent
I know you've rambled, I know you've brought in other people, plus introduced unrelated topics
and still havent conclusively answered the question

Perfectbeing:
But I asked first..

I know you did
but I am giving you a gentlemanly first turn

donnie:
Kindly quote Nicodemus' remark, Thank you.

¹There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
²The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God:
for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
³Jesus answered and said unto him,
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God
- John 3:1-3

John 3:2 is Nicodemus' clandestine opening remark to Jesus

donnie, will you now kindly oblige.
Please, can you in one sentence, describe from Nicodemus' opening remark, what was bugging him?

Anas09:
Darkchild is a she?

Though I could have mistaken, I thought so

Perfectbeing:
Please give us the difference between
1. Heaven.
2. Paradise.
3. Kingdom of God.
4. Kingdom of heaven.
5. "To enter his rest."

And back it up with scriptures..

I will, after you Perfectbeing.

I just knew its a matter of time before darkchild64 falls on her sword and self destruct

PastorDavidAwuj:
1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned:
but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

This things are very easy to pick. Here is the scene between Jesus and Nicodemus.

In vs 4 Jesus made him know the criterion for seeing God’s kingdom- being born again.
Now, Nicodemus seemed confused about the term just like so many people are.

Jesus then went ahead in vs 14 to explain born again to him, saying,
“look here, I must go to the cross and die and be resurrected from the dead,
and then anyone that believes in this work of redemption shall be saved vs 15.

He then went on to tell him what his purpose for coming into the world was vs 16.
God sent Jesus into the world to save the world.
How? By going to the cross as a sacrifice and coming back from the grave making Him the first born again from man’s dead nature Col 1: 18
Someone was asking yesterday, that how could Jesus who knew no sin be the first born from man’s dead nature.
Simple. God imputed the sin of the whole world on him. See that here:

2 cor 5: 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

That should help.

Guys, carefully read that story up there, and if you are not going to be biased you can easily pick your answers from there.
Now, if still have any confusions, I will just tell you to define the term “born- again” correctly,
like I’ve been saying since yesterday and that will free you in the mind.

1/ PastorDavidAwuj, what was the meat in Nicodemus' opening remark?
2/ What did Jesus say, "Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see..." in reaction to what Nicodemus said with his opening remark?

donnie:
It couldn't have been, because it's the Spirit that baptizes one into the body of Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

And He came on Pentecost. So no one could have be born again before Pentecost.

donnie, please, can you in one sentence, describe from Nicodemus' opening remark, what was bugging him?

Perfectbeing:
Jesus was talking about the same thing in verse 3,5,15 and 16.

Jesus was talking about seeing or sight of the kingdom in verse 3,
was talking about entering or entry to the kingdom in verse 5,
was talking about salvation in verse 5,
and was talking about the love of God and the gift of salvation in verse 16.

Verses 3,5,15 and 16 are exactly the same thing.
They are related to each other but they certainly arent exactly same things

Perfectbeing:
For you to say that "seeing" and "entering" Gods kingdom are different,
then you also mean to be "born again" is different from being "born of water."

"born again" and "born of water" are different to each other
In order to see as in spiritually discern, one needs to be born again
In order to enter the kingdom, man needs to be born of water and of the Spirit (i.e. born again)

Perfectbeing:
Jesus couldn't having been saying different things in verse 3 and 5. Read it again.
3. verily I say unto thee, except a man be born again he cannot see kingdom of God.
The pharisees have always thought that Gods kingdom was a physical kingdom,
hence Nick asked in verse 4;
".. How can a man be born when he's old?
Can he enter the second time into his mothers womb and be born?".

Whose fault is it then, if Pharisees have always thought that God's kingdom was a physical kingdom?
No wonder, Nicodemus was doubtful,
and Jesus wasnt impressed that Nicodemus, out of everyone, was slow on the uptake.

Perfectbeing:
Jesus explained what he meant be being born again from verse 5 downwards.
5. " verily I say unto you except a man be born of water and of spirit , he cannot. enter the kingdom of God.
Verse 5 was a clear explanation of verse 3 and not different from verse 3.

Jesus upped the ante "entering" whilst Nicodemus was still struggling and wrestling with "seeing"

Perfectbeing:
Like I said earlier, for you to say "seeing God's kingdom" is different from "entering it" in this two verses,
then you must also mean that being "born again" and being "born of water and spirit" are also different as at used in both verses.

Born again is synonymous with born of the Spirit, both mean the same thing, as in being born from above

"born again" was used by Jesus in the context of seeing
whilst "born of water and the Spirit" was used by Jesus in the context of entering

Perfectbeing:
Now concerning being born again and salvation, they are also the same thing.
One doesn't precede the other.
For that to be true then you mean that someone can be born again and not yet have salvation.
Or someone can have salvation and not yet born again.

As I earlier typed, born again precedes and preceded salvation
In order to receive and get the gift of salvation, you'll first, have to be born again, be regenerated, be born from above or be born of the Spirit
The disciples, Nicodemus and a lot others were already born again before getting the gift of salvation

It is highly unlikely, anyone will be born again and not have or get the gift of salvation
Anyone truly born again, receives the gift of salvation

Perfectbeing:
From your definition of being born again,
it means the thief and the cross wasn't born again but yet saved.
Unless you want to mean the process of being born again and salvation didn't occur at the same instant
(probably it had some seconds or maybe minutes space between the two to occur)

The thief was earlier regenerated and received salvation under a different condition that we now receive the gift of salvation under

Perfectbeing:
Remember his exact words were " verily I say unto you, today thou shall be with me in paradise."
I'm sure you'd agree with me that "paradise" used in this context and "God's kingdom" are one and the same thing.

I dont agree with me that "paradise" used in that context and "God's kingdom" are one and the same thing because they arent

Perfectbeing:
The thief had the privilege of entering God's kingdom by just one act - believe.
He was saved/born again when he believed and that gave him the opportunity of entering into God's kingdom/paradise...

The thief had the privilege of entering paradise, not yet, God's kingdom by itself.
Anyway, you can see how different the thief was compared to Nicodemus,
who was wrestling and struggling with the thought of who Jesus really is

Perfectbeing:
No it wasn't..

Before I explain further I must state this.
The only way a scripture can be taught or interpreted appropriately is by using other scriptures to explain it. Our interpretation shouldn't be what we think or what a scripture should say but how it is explained from other scriptures.
Unclear scriptures should be explained from other scriptures and not with head knowledge.

In John 2:23, it was stated that people believed in Jesus when the saw his miracles.
They only believed Jesus cos of his miracles not cos of who he was.
Verse 24 confirms this when it said Jesus did not commit himself to them because he knew all men.
He knew those that were with him only there cos of what they could get from him..

And I tell you even our dear Nicodemus was part of those people.
Look what he said in John 3:2;
.. we know you're a teacher from God" see his reason for that; " no man can do these miracles you do except God be with him.
He only believed God was with Jesus cos of the miracles Jesus did.

Remember Nicodemus was a Pharisee,
and the Pharisees' idea of what the Messiah and His Kingdom is or would be, is different
Nicodemus' bone of contention is who is Jesus, is Jesus the Messiah or not
The reason for Nicodemus' clandestine and dead of the night visit, was to seek the truth, to know who Jesus is

Perfectbeing:
In verse 3, Jesus told him, "...Except a man is born again be cannot see the kingdom of God."

When Nick didn't quite get what Jesus meant by being born again,
Jesus explained further what he meant in verse 5;
.. except a man is born of water and blood he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Verse 3 and 5 are saying the same thing. Jesus interchanged "born again" with "born of water" and "see" with "enter."
Seeing the kingdom of God and entering it meant the same thing in this passage..

Further explanation of "seeing/entering" the kingdom was given when Nicodemus asked in verse 9, ".. how can this be?"

Jesus explained in verse 13 that "no man hath ascended up to heaven." Meaning no man has seen/entered the kingdom of God before. No man had ever been born again or saved prior to Jesus birth or death.

And he Verse 15 and 16, he gave us the clearest picture of what be meant by being born again.
".. whosoever believe in him would not perish but have everlasting life."

Salvation was all he was talking to Nicodemus about and nothing else.
Salvation which is gotten when one believe in his death and resurrection is what he was saying to Nick.

Seeing/entering into Gods kingdom is only possible when one is born again or saved..
This state of being born again is achieved only when one believes in Jesus.

I call you blessed...

Nicodemus had a problem with understanding the concept of regeneration
Seeing God's kingdom and entering into God's kingdom are not synonymous
They might be related but they certainly dont have the same meaning
Jesus explained what the criteria for entering into God's kingdom is (i.e. man be born of water and of the Spirit...)

As I earlier typed, born again precedes and preceded salvation
In order to receive and get the gift of salvation, you'll first, have to be born again, be regenerated, be born from above
The disciples, Nicodemus and a lot others were already born again before getting the gift of salvation
It is highly unlikely, anyone will be born again and not have or get the gift of salvation
Anyone truly born again, receives the gift of salvation

Will not only see the demonstrations & power of the kingdom of God
but ultimately will enter into the kingdom of God

Scoffers, mockers, cynics, pagans etcetera will never see anything good about the kingdom
and that's because they are not born again, are not born from above, are not spiritually rebirthed
Why you think there are atheists?
It is because regeneration has not taken place in them.

Born Again didnt publicly need to be preached by Jesus because it is a straightforward fact,
and Jesus was surprised that Nicodemus who happens to be a teacher, didnt know this
nor know that Born Again can be a prerequisite for salvation

Born Again and salvation, though are not in the same category, they nonetheless are related

Lastly, verse 13 and the rest, is trying to convince Nicodemus who is still wrestling with the thought of who Jesus really is
Jesus is telling Nicodemus not to fight the regeneration,
because salvation afterall comes from Him, following regeneration, following born again or following born from above

paxonel:
i have seen what you mean.

May God's blessing and grace not diminish from you

paxonel:
But how about the time factor?

Because we may read John 3 without considering the time of interaction between Jesus and Nicodemus.

Was there salvation at the time Jesus met nicodemus?

If there was no salvation, assume nicodemus obeyed Jesus at that time and become born again, will he be saved simply because he became born again?

Born Again preceded salvation
The disciples, Nicodemus and a lot others were already born again before getting the gift of salvation
It is highly unlikely, anyone will be born again and not have or get the gift of salvation

Since you didnt answer my "was the kingdom of God at this juncture and/or time seen or not seen?" question
Check out John 2:23 to read about people seeing the demostration of power of the kingdom of God
John 2:23, IMHO, is where John 3, should have actually and appropiately started.

Scoffers, mockers, cynics, pagans etcetera will never see anything good about the kingdom
and that's because they are not born again, are not born from above, are not spiritually rebirthed
Regeneration has not taken place in them

It didnt publicly need to be preached because it is a straightforward fact,
and Jesus was surprised that Nicodemus who happens to be a teacher, didnt know this and all

Perfectbeing:
If people could be born again before Jesus' death like you said, then his death was a waste and his blood was shed for nothing..

"Jesus answered and said unto him,
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
- John 3:3

Perfectbeing, was the kingdom of God at this juncture and/or time seen or not seen?

paxonel:
ok, prove to me that i am born again.

I hope you have the stamina because it is going to be a long read

paxonel:
I really want to understand you

"¹There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
²The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God:
for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
³Jesus answered and said unto him,
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
⁴Nicodemus saith unto him,
How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
⁵Jesus answered,
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
⁶That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
⁷Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again"
- John 3:1-7

Very important bible useful rule of thumb, to remember, is that the bible wasnt originally in chapters and verses.
This why one needs to be so very careful when reading it

I love John chapter 3 a lot and have noticed that John chapter 3 actually and appropriately should have started from John 2:23
but it sad to see, many, be under a delusion or living in a fool's paradise, cavorting with the "born again" cliché

paxonel, someone like you and most are familiar with driving a car or riding a motor-cycle
know how a car's flat/dead battery is brought back to life
or know how a motor cycle thats being lying around or standing about for months/years is brought back to life

Now, here's the beginning of the point, here's how many so-called believers, "believers" and/or christians, misunderstand John chapter 3
and as a result, unnecessarily slip into resorting to using a "born again" cliché

I am unable to understand why some and/or others dont ever wonder why Jesus never publicly gave "born again" teaching.
Think about it. Not even one public teaching about "born again" did Jesus give
I guess it's because born from above also known as, born again, actually isn't a badge of honour, but is a matter of just fact
It is unneccessary to publicly teach a known fact

paxonel, well, what was Nicodemus opening remark and what was Jesus' immediate reply back to Nicodemus opening remark?
Tell now, repeat Nicodemus' question to Jesus now paxonel

The arresting point that got Nicodemus captivated was the mention of regeneration in Jesus' immediate reply to Nicodemus' opening remark.

Jesus said to Nicodemus, it takes one having a spirit renewal or spirit re-birth, to see and recognise the kingdom of God
Jesus said, except born from above, one cant accept the truth of nor admit the existence of the kingdom of God

If one isnt, then such one, will rubbish, ridicule, make fun of, poke fun at, make jokes about, scoff at, be sarcastic about the kingdom of God
Such one not born from above, will take the mickey out of demonstrations & power of the kingdom of God

Notice, it's, from being born from above, that one is be able to confess and acknowledge the demonstrations & power of the kingdom of God
and its' from being born of water and born from above, is the order for entering into the kingdom of God

paxonel, here is an illustration, to explain "see the kingdom of God" and "enter into the kingdom of God"
When you're on a plane from France to Ghana, with a connecting flight at Amsterdam Airport Schiphol, you land in Holland.
You dont go outside or beyond Amsterdam Airport Schiphol, you see Amsterdam city and/or Holland from inside Amsterdam Airport Schiphol,
Except you have the correct travelling documents etcetera, you cant go into town, cannot physically enter into Amsterdam city and/or Holland.
You will just see Holland and the city from whilst inside Amsterdam Airport Schiphol (i.e. the main international airport of the Netherlands)
but will not enter the city

Now lets rewind a bit paxonel
After dark one evening, Nicodemus came to speak with Jesus.
"Rabbi," he said,
"we all know that God has sent you to teach us.
Your miraculous signs are evidence that God is with you."
- John 3:2

Going back to John 3:2,
Nicodemus in John 3:2 managed to have seen somethings, he admitted and confirmed the origin of what hes being seeing
John 2:23 is testament to this
but Jesus switched gear on Nicodemus, Jesus changed from talking about "see the Kingdom'' to 'talking 'enter the Kingdom''
All this happened as a result of Nicodemus trying to make sense of Born Again and entering mother's womb
- paxonel, it is a fact, it is possible, we can see things of thing without entering the thing

People jumble two separate things together here paxonel.
Just because you cant enter into something, doesnt mean or imply you can't see the something

People see America, people watch America
but to enter into America, to set foot on American soil in America, requires certain criteria being met

Two people looking at the same thing at the same time,
both observing the same thing but only one is seeing something,
only one is admitting seeing what's being observed or only one confesses and acknowledges what was played out before them both

You see things when the spirit falls or rests on you
You can't see things unless you are born from above (i.e. you are born again)
You wont confess and acknowledge unless you are born from above (i.e. you are born again)

Please study John 3:1-3 by slowing reading but reading it out loud
Hope you notice how Nicodemus instigated Jesus switching the gear on him.
Jesus in responding to Nicodemus' admitted John 3:2 observances, decides to up the ante
from ''see the Kingdom'' to ''enter into the Kingdom'' after Nicodemus brought in the issue of re-entering a mother's womb

Nicodemus had no problem with Jesus' first reply
This is confirmed if John 3:3, is re-read like this:
You are right Nicodemus, I say to you, EXCEPT a man be born again, he CANNOT "see" the kingdom of God

Jesus knew what Nicodemus was having a problem with
and also knew why Nicodemus asked that question in John 3:4

paxonel, you see, Nicodemus was confused about the entering aspect,
He was thinking, is it going to be his present body or would he have to return into his mother's womb for a re-birth?

paxonel, re-read Jesus' John 3:5 reply to Nicodemus bewilderment, like this:
"You are right Nicodemus,
I say to you, EXCEPT a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he CANNOT "enter" into the kingdom of God"

Nicodemus was like, OK, I've seen the demonstration and power of the Kingdom,
but my question now is, how do I enter the Kingdom.
What are the qualifications?
Remember Nicodemus was a Pharisee, and the Pharisees idea of what the Messiah and His Kingdom is or would be is different

Born Again isnt the false doctrine it's being built up to be,
but is a fact, reality and truth that, except a man, is biologically born of human being (i.e. born of water)
and spiritually born of God (i.e. born again, as in born from above, born of the Spirit) you cannot enter the kingdom

You, paxonel, is born of water and born again