₦airaland Forum

jerflakes:
God is not a person
God is a thing.
A force

budaatum:
This question was asked of me by MuttleyLaff here.
I have created a thread for it to share it with others who may not wish to derail John's Gospel.

His question has provoked thought in me and I believe it would provoke thought in you too.
So, no knee jerks please. Think before you respond.

What is God?

budaatum:
John 1

Let There Be Enlightenment!

The chapter begins by stating the importance of the word. At the time, the written word itself was deemed of great importance amongst the Jews, to whom this was most relevant. It was even deemed holy amongst some and not meant for those who were considered unholy so this would have been like Prometheus who defies the gods by stealing fire and giving it to humanity thereby enabling progress and civilization.

"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us".

Behold, the Tree of Life!

A correction was necessary in light of conversation with MuttleyLaff. See posts below. I had previously written,
[s]Behold, the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil![/s]

budaatum:
Stagnant? Hmmmmm

I expected no one else but you to contribute to this thread! As to others, if the Gospel has Power, why should I have to bother if they flock or not?

Lets call it our bedroom for you and I until others arrive and turn it into the living room.

Emmanystone:
I think i'll like this guy. Don't get me wrong pls.

budaatum:
John 3
‎
The Kingdom of God?‎
‎
There is much more to this chapter than I will touch on in this post. I will begin with ‎verse 4, knowing I do a disservice to even that verse

budaatum:
‎4 “How can someone be born when they are old?”
Nicodemus asked.
“Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”‎

Nicodemus here asks a question you would hear many of us atheists ask when we attempt to ridicule religious belief

budaatum:
Our failing, (on both sides, I would claim), is a misunderstanding of what may have been meant‎.

To be born, is to become as a baby, completely devoid of ideas, like an empty vessel waiting to be filled up, which unfortunately, we just are not. We hold on to preconceived ideas that act like sunglasses distorting reality.
It is like Einstein's Theory of General Relativity, we all see things from our own subjective viewpoint and lack objectivity.
We are people in the darkness grabbing on to bits of an elephant and defining what the entirety is from the little we know.
Any filling of the vessels we are would involve emptying its current content and refiling us with new stuff.

budaatum:
The Kingdom of God cannot be comprehended within the limits of the ideas that we have especially if we are opposed to it, or comprehendeth it not.
It will sound as ridiculous as describing an elephant by knowing only its trunk, or as being born again sounds to Nicodemus.‎
Perhaps what we need do is be willing to suspend our beliefs, and not assume we already know it all.
"How can this be?" Indeed, this is going to prove as difficult as reentering ones mother's womb! 
It is not impossible though, if not taken literally, and if you were to try to consider.

Anything said on the entire chapter would be ignoring the elephant in the room if I do not mention verse 16.‎
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,
that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. ‎

I personally have issues with the word "believe" in that verse.
My preconceptions get in the way, so to speak, as while I believe some things
- I believe I will wake up tomorrow‎,
for instance - I require evidence for the things I believe. ‎
I have woken up everyday so far is evidence that I will likely wake up tomorrow. ‎

budaatum:
I have always claimed that I cannot 'believe' in the existence of a God, or gods.
‎If I were a Christian, I would know there is a God
would have to arrogantly state, "I know there is a God", and my Bible will read as follows:

‎‎For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, 
that whoever knows‎ him shall not perish but have eternal life. ‎
‎‎
There is a difference, in my opinion.‎‎

I am hoping more flesh would dress the idea of "The Kingdom of God" as we step forward.‎

Emmanystone:
Mehhhn, the guy spews out trash the way he breaths in air.

Happy Sunday servant of God.

MuttleyLaff:
My sister, there must have been a mix-up
Think about it, would you call your daughter or son a servant of Emmanystone?
Honestly, would you take to your daughter or son being called a servant of Emmanystone?

Emmanystone:
I will call him/her son or daughter of Emmanystone.

superhumanist:
Stop speaking in parables.

Na butterflyl1on be light?
Christian wey wet dey lie pass devil?

butterflyl1on:


You are speaking mysteries which he cannot decipher.

He does not realise that light cannot be denied.
Once someone who has been in darkness and it's torment for years
sees light and the freedom and peace it brings he cannot deny it
and would never want to return to darkness again not even when coerced.

Emmanystone:
Mehhhn, the guy spews out trash the way he breaths in air.

Emmanystone:
Happy Sunday servant of God.

superhumanist:
Stop speaking in parables.

Na butterflyl1on be light?
Christian wey wet dey lie pass devil?

superhumanist:
Lol. They don't realise it that they are changing.

Butterflyl1on no later Nigeria argues like a Christian. He is now arguing like a deist.

Vaxx is now trying to be logical albeit failing.

butterflyl1on:
Stop seeing things that are not there.
Claiming I am arguing like a deist is a failed statement of huge proportions.
Stop consoling yourself.

Tohzara:
[s]I know quoting me gets you wet down there.
But, while you may think it's fun,
unfortunately for you, it's your dissolved brain dripping like sewage outta your pussy.
Keep squirting over my posts[/s].

Emmanystone:
Your mouth is a pit toilet.

MuttleyLaff:
https://gifyu.com/images/steadylaugh.gif
Makes two of us laughing

butterflyl1on:
[img]https://s1/images/duckEyed.jpg[/img]

hopefulLandlord:
Don't get me wrong cuz I chose my words carefully, as I've almost always done, I'm not being biased here
I'm not supporting insults
and if I post the insults I receive from theists/Christians it'll fit pages upon pages.

if you even search for my monicker you'll see I've received quite a few today alone but you'd be find it hard to see me insult those I'm talking to
However I'm just stating an observation that "some" Christians here that usually throw insults cower whenever they face someone that goes toe to toe with them at it.
They want to dish it but do not want to take it

OkCornel:
I'm laughing so hard at the bolded...
It's well... unless we all realize that we are all human beings first...before being divided along the lines of theism and atheism...the better for all of us...

I have hardly come across anyone who says no to true, sincere and sacrificial love... I'm just looking forward to a day where everyone who is open minded will sit at the same table and tell themselves the bitter truth without exchanging needless insults...

Where we all love ourselves by holding dearly to the things we have in common...while we deal with our differences amicably...

For example...irrespective of the fact you are an atheist...see us holding a meaningful conversation here...for goodness sake, is this not possible in the majority if not entirety of nairaland? Honestly...I am tired of logging online to see unprintable insults flying up and down on a popular platform like this...

We are all bothered about the afterlife...when the problems of the current life is not even sorted out. We are all bothered about who created this world...when nothing is done about those destroying it...

Just tiring mehn...

budaatum:
I see your point. And would have to reconsider.
I suppose they ate of the fruit of that tree, as it wasn't forbidden to them.
Will research it and come back to you.

budaatum:
I've limited myself to the bits in purple.
Yes. I notice your signature is a refererence to this fact.
It is echoed in the Gospel of Thomas, and experienced by Saul on the way to Damascus.

Ok, maybe not totally devoid.
Some other text claim Adam named all other animals, so a level of consciousness must have entailed. I think we are in agreement that awareness increased.

As to who first saw the lamb, well,.......

budaatum:
There is no indication in the text from which I can say 1 applies.
I have no evidence to suggest they were cool with their unclothedness.
What the text implies is that they became aware that they had been unclothed and they were not happy that they were

budaatum:
The text says,
God knows that when you eat it your eyes will be opened. You'll be like God, knowing good and evil."
So, I assume they got to know both good and evil, both of which the text implies they were not, prior to that, conscious of.

budaatum:
Kind of makes me think they could have been like apes.
Totally devoid of conscious states of awareness.

budaatum:
Ok. Though, the text points to John the Baptist becoming aware of Christ.
And then making others aware of him when he told them to "Behold, the Lamb of God".
Perhaps being conscious of Jesus, and becoming aware of Jesus' Glory, are separate incidences. I can live with that.

budaatum:
I did type "unclothedness", to get around the sanitiser.

budaatum:
I take the actual verse in the Bible to mean "they lacked awareness of the state they were in"

budaatum:
Behold, as in, 'become conscious (and aware)" of that which was at the beginning, and is, and always will be..

I personally hold that the "In the beginning" in Genesis, and in The Gospel of John, are connected.
The Fruit of Knowledge of Good and Evil is some sort of 'Light" both it, and John's Word, enable seeing (awareness, consciousness)

budaatum:
We have the whole of John to find an answer to your last question.
The simple, off the cuff, not think too much response, however is that which some call Christ.

budaatum:
Of course I can see. That's why I wrote it

budaatum:
Adam and Eve became conscious of there unclothedness

budaatum:
"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us", is another instance of a making humans consciously aware.

budaatum:
The first mention of consciousness of the being in the Yahweh Book was when Adam and Eve ate the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

budaatum:
I am proposing that when it is written that "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.
We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth",
that we are being made conscious of things again, just like Adam and Eve were.

budaatum:
John 1

Let There Be Enlightenment!

The chapter begins by stating the importance of the word.
At the time, the written word itself was deemed of great importance amongst the Jews, to whom this was most relevant.
It was even deemed holy amongst some and not meant for those who were considered unholy
so this would have been like Prometheus who defies the gods by stealing fire and giving it to humanity thereby enabling progress and civilization.

"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us".

Behold, the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil!

budaatum:
Which gauntlet? Me no see it!

CaptainJeffry:
Hahaha Nigerians can be so gullible.

PrecisionFx:
I'm sure ur heavily confused.

Seun:
Do people really think his curses, which are at odds with the teachings of Jesus in the gospels about blessing your enemies, are effective? He has decreed death on so many groups of bad people; how many of them have died, though? (a honest question)

Tohzara:
If the universe is eternal, it's its own cause, and a first cause becomes superflous and meaningless.

Tohzara:
Creation out of nothing is impossible

Tohzara:
There's no such thing as nothingness. Nothingness is meanigless and undefined.
It is NOTHING (!)

Tohzara:
Which God?
No argument so far has been able to establish his existence.
Your house of cards just keep collapsing

Tohzara:
The universe doesn't have a designer.
It is self-propelling.

Tohzara:
You can rap.

sonofluc1fer:
Exactly.
A world without God won't make sense to you.

Tohzara:
The man who designed the website IS EXTREMELY MORE COMPLEX THAN THE WEBSITE, therefore the God who designed the universe MUST BE ENORMOUSLY MORE COMPLEX THAN THE UNIVERSE TOO, and if complexity implies design, who designed the one who designed the universe?
And who designed whoever designed that one too?
Don't you get it?
This argument is dead----it kills itself deader than the coldest corpse

Tohzara:
What's more, I told you earlier that the universe is an entirely different ball game, compared to the website. Man created the website from already existing raw materials.
Did God create the universe from pre-existing materials that he didn't create out of the blue----out of absolutely nothing

Tohzara:
The OBSERVABLE UNIVERSE is proven to have a beginning. The universe might go beyond that. The universe created at the Big Bang might just be the transformation of pre-existing energy of a completely different form, changing into a new form, AND THE BIG BANG WAS THE BEGINNING OF THAT FORM, not necessarily the beginning of THE UNIVERSE. The universe can be eternal

Tohzara:
Does this COMPLEX DESIGNER (he MUST be) also have a designer, and does his designer have a designer too? This dead argument will ALWAYS summon an infinite regress, and there can be NO SPECIAL PLEADING

Tohzara:
The universe might have MIND FUNDAMENTAL TO IT. It gave rise to beings with consciousness and intelligence.
How can a system which is at root MINDLESS achieve that? The universe can have its own mind.

budaatum:
No. That's just how 'they' understand it, or chose to see it. The Bible itself says nothing!

Or, has the Trinity now become a Quarternity and I missed the memo?

budaatum:
Hey, in chess, its kosher to play for a draw.
One does it in order not to rack up a loss!
I may hate when one draws a game on me, for they'd only go for a draw if they were likely to lose.
I love when I get a draw though, because it saved me from losing.

But chess is a rather different kettle of fish to what we do here.
Here don't have the nicely laid out established rules of chess!

If anyone wants a game, join me on
Its free to play.

Emmanystone:
X-Y-Z.

Emmanystone:
It was sent back saying the address was not found.

Emmanystone:
Okay sir. Done.

Lolzzz @t the email id