₦airaland Forum

Joagbaje:
You're mixing two issues together

I am not mixing two issues together. Far from it,
What I did was, moved on, gone ahead and straightforwardly ask you a simple question that when do you apply Deuteronomy 14:24-26
Have you at any time in past, applied Deuteronomy 14:24-26 or do in the soon or later future intend applying Deuteronomy 14:24-26?

Joagbaje:
There were two kinds of tithes. There's the major one done annually they are brought to The lord and recieved by Levites in the temple

You wouldnt be writing this short story, if you had answered: Are you practising the Abraham 10% tithing or you're practising the Israelites 23 two-third% whole tithing?

Joagbaje:
The second one is another ten percent for feasting with the poor. Not the same as the annual tithes

SMH TMSIDK as in, Tell Me Something I Don't Know

Joagbaje:
My point to you is that men gave money in the temple as tithes and offerings. God doesn't accept unclean animals or blind or lame such were redeemed by money and given to God the same way people can sell and given money value

The point is, you are fanatical about believing that every Biblical times Israelite paid tithe, when the fact of the matter is that, not all Israelites tithed. Income or wages earners did not tithe

For example, hired hands or farm labourers working on Israelite farmlands did not tithe. The farm owner tithes but not the hired hands, because there is no command demanding a tenth of the farm labourer wages

30“One tenth of the produce of the land, whether grain from the fields or fruit from the trees, belongs to the Lord and must be set apart to him as holy.
31If you want to buy back the Lord’s tenth of the grain or fruit, you must pay its value, plus 20 percent.
32Count off every tenth animal from your herds and flocks and set them apart for the Lord as holy
- Leviticus 27:30-32

I've come to realise you that you're prone to parrying probing questions without responding to them or without answering them.
In spite of that, please reflect deeply on Leviticus 27:30-32 above, then be sincere and honest with yourself when checking whether what you practise as tithing at all resembles Leviticus 27:30-32

Joagbaje:
If I used such term.
There's no difference between a pastor or the pastor.

LOL. You have changed ''The Pastor'' to ''the pastor''
I know you're clever and smart enough not to make the error of using ''The Pastor'' next time for man

Joagbaje:
I still don't get you

Don't sweat it. You will get it later, if you presently dont

Joagbaje:
That's what I've been trying to point to you. God doesn't accept unclean animals. For tithes or offerings . They redeemed them with cash .

Leviticus 27:27
And if it be of an unclean beast, then he shall redeem it according to thine estimation, and shall add a fifth part of it thereto: or if it be not redeemed, then it shall be sold according to thy estimation.

24"If the distance is so great for you that you are not able to bring the tithe, since the place where the LORD your God chooses to set His name is too far away from you when the LORD your God blesses you,
25then you shall exchange it for money, and bind the money in your hand and go to the place which the LORD your God chooses.
26"You may spend the money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen, or sheep, or wine, or strong drink, or whatever your heart desires; and there you shall eat in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household.…
- Deuteronomy 14:24-26

Happy days with your scriptures cherry-picking. SMH
You don't half make me laugh. So when do you apply Deuteronomy 14:24-26

Joagbaje:
Oh really? How does the man who rare and sell dogs or horses give his tithe? How does the person who deals on perishable crops give tithes .

Are you with this remark pleading ignorance of more than enough scripture that says so?

Depending which ''dog'' you mean here
If you rear and sell dogs or horses, you are expected to give tithe on your increase

Joagbaje:
My point is clear by the thread title. Tithes and offerings are eternal principles in Gods kingdom

The thread's title is mischievous and the posting premises calculating
because you build on principles and not stationary park on principles

Joagbaje:
where was it written

Look it up in the bible

Joagbaje:
just human analogy . when will God end. when will worship end, when will prayers end? they should have ended with your assumed tithe ending too

Tithing has got nothing to do with when will God end, when will worship end, when will prayers end

But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.
- Numbers 18:24

17"Otherwise, you may say in your heart, 'My power and the strength of my hand made me this wealth.'
18"But you shall remember the LORD your God, for it is He who is giving you power to make wealth, that He may confirm His covenant which He swore to your fathers, as it is this day.
- Deuteronomy 8:17-18

Tithing was something God commanded to be done in order to achieve something else
and that is why I asked that, apart from the facts in Numbers 18:24 and/or from Deuteronomy 8:17-18 why do you think the Israelites had to tithe?

Since you parried answering that question, how am I able to ask the other question and get an response to: Why do you think you have to tithe?

Joagbaje:
Kindly decipher your poem here

If you perceived it as poetry, take it from it wasnt intentional, it was accidental and not deliberate

Now again, you used ''The Pastor'' and ''pastor'' in your narrative
The following are two or more snippets repeating how you used them:
- A pastor is rather a number one tither and giver
- Some of you just create funny idea of who a pastor is. Firstly a pastor is a christian...
- The Pastor gives tithes and offerings like every other Christian....
- When a pastor has so many churches under him....

In the last snippet contrarily to scripture, you obviously ascribe to a hierarchy with a pastor at the helm of the organization
Your parlance particularly with ''The Pastor'' and ''pastor'' beg the questions, what is the difference between The Pastor and pastor
also in your usages, when is pastor a noun, when is pastor a verb or when is pastor both?

Joagbaje:
Income from herbs still refers to money

Income from herbs refers to and means acquired herb increase, gained herb increase or gotten herb increase

Joagbaje:
They gave money as tithe

No, money wasnt involved, they gave nothing as such, nothing in the form of money was paid as tithe

Income from herbs does not still refer to money. They didnt give money as tithe

Let's be attentive to the accuracies of ''ktaomai'' in Luke 18:12 and of ''apodekatoo'' in Luke 11:14 which is where the ''income'' misunderstood translation is derived from

Tithe is paid on the acquired increase by deducting a tenth part of cultivated crops or bred and raised livestock and then give the tenth part away to the Levites to pay as tithe.

Money only comes into the equation when distance or logistics to the Levitical cities becomes an issue, and this is temporary because immediately you arrive at the nearest Levitical city, you are not expected to give the money but you rather are instructed, as seen in Deuteronomy 14:24-26 to spend the tithe money for whatever your heart desires etcetera

24"If the distance is so great for you that you are not able to bring the tithe, since the place where the LORD your God chooses to set His name is too far away from you when the LORD your God blesses you,
25then you shall exchange it for money, and bind the money in your hand and go to the place which the LORD your God chooses.
26"You may spend the money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen, or sheep, or wine, or strong drink, or whatever your heart desires; and there you shall eat in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household.…
- Deuteronomy 14:24-26

Joagbaje:
It's your opinion

Not my opinion

Joagbaje:
Where does scripture say so?

Are you with this remark pleading ignorance of more than enough scripture that says so?

Joagbaje:
Even if we have to adopt your assumption we are not Tithing based on mosaic law.

So the tithing you're championing isnt based on the Mosaic Law? OK and if so, oblige the readership, and tell what is the tithing you champion based on then?
Are you practising the Abraham 10% tithing or you're practising the Israelites 23 two-third% whole tithing?

Joagbaje:
They gave tithes and offering based on things used for service in the terbernacke and temple. Other things that can't be used there are converted to money. For example . Unclean animals like dog, horse etc cannot be brought to the house of God as tithe or offerings. Such is converted to money called redemption

This narrative is nothing less than a truckload of misinformed assumptions and you've intentionally plus deliberately tried to misinform the unsuspecting reader with it. SMH

Joagbaje:
Beautiful, that tells you that you don't look at tithe issue from one narrow perspective. For example. The reson Abel gave first fruit was different from the reason Isreal gave first fruit.

It is beautiful and invaluable to have a complete perspective of tithe history, so here are some tithing aetiology questions:
What was the reason for Abraham to tithe?
Who commanded Abraham to tithe?
What was the reason for the Israelites to tithe?
Who commanded the Israelites to tithe?

But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.
- Numbers 18:24

17"Otherwise, you may say in your heart, 'My power and the strength of my hand made me this wealth.'
18"But you shall remember the LORD your God, for it is He who is giving you power to make wealth, that He may confirm His covenant which He swore to your fathers, as it is this day.
- Deuteronomy 8:17-18

Apart from the facts in Numbers 18:24 and/or from Deuteronomy 8:17-18. why did the Israelites have to tithe?

Joagbaje:
But one thing is clear. There is what is called first fruit. Same thing hi for offering, tithes and any other sacred act of worship

Tithing no doubt was common in Abraham's days but surprisingly he was recorded as doing it only once

The other thing that ought to be clear too, is the discontinuity of tithing in this dispensation
Where there is a first, there is a last, a beginning, an ending, and a start and a stop. That is clear about tithing

Joagbaje:
A pastor is rather a number one tither and giver. Some of you just create funny idea of who a pastor is. Firstly a pastor is a christian . He has his own job or business at least 90% of pastors in redeem, winners CEC . Have their jobs as bankers, oil workers . Business men etc. one of the criterial to send a man out to pastor is that he has a good job. I said in the other thread that of of CEC pastors was the highest paid in chevron in the whole of Africa or west Africa . His millions are rather going into the work of ministry . The Pastor gives tithes and offerings like every other Christian. Church money is not the pastors money . Every ministry has their financial structure. On staff salary, church maintainance, rentals. And in few cases allowance for the pastor if he is on full time work. When a pastor has so many churches under him and lay pastoring many not give the work enough attention he may be required to resign from his job and go into full time ministry. It's inly on that ground he may recieve allowance or salary. All these internet picture some of you paint of who a pastor is make one laugh

You are joking on EVERY point with this narrative, aren't you?
If you werent joking, then you have to be careful here
Contrarily to scripture, you obviously ascribe to a hierarchy with a pastor at the helm of the organization
so within the context of your narrative and painted organization, what is the difference between Pastor and pastor
and when is pastor a noun, when is pastor a verb or when is pastor both?

Sarassin:
In that case I surely stand corrected. Elijah did not ascend the heavens on the chariots of fire. He was translated in a whirlwind.

Don't beat yourself up over it and if it makes you feel any better, am sorry for bringing the fact up

Sarassin:
Question asked, question answered. If you have a more justifying answer don’t beat around the bush, spit it out

I'll do it soon, keep your knickers on!

Sarassin:
@ the bolded. I knew there was something I wanted to pull you up on

I knew something like that cant go past you unnoticed

Sarassin:
What are your proofs for that statement?

Well contrary to your assertion of a:
''the ascension of Elijah on the chariots of fire'',
that assertion is wrong, because Elijah DID NOT GO on any chariots of fire

The chariots of fire drawn by horses of fire, actually only came between him and Elisha,
(i.e. the chariots of fire drawn by horses of fire served ONLY, as a demarcation between Elijah and Elisha)
as a matter of fact, Elijah was translated in a whirlwind or tornado if you like, and not with or by any chariot
I let your ''the ascension of Elijah on the chariots of fire' slip slide, sorry for the slip-slide pun,
as it is wise to pick and choose battles,
and because ''the ascension of Elijah on the chariots of fire'' wasnt the action front

Now, the other one of the proofs, is the letter Elijah wrote to the wicked King Jehoram

Sarassin:
Your figures are wrong, the entire population of Palestine at the time was put at around One Million with just about half of that figure being ethnic Jews, many Jewish people survived the rebellion out in the countryside

See, you forgot to consider those who made pilgrimage for the Jewish Passover and Feast of Tabernacles

Sarassin:
This simply shows that the author of Matthew as we know now, wrote his volume after the destruction of the temple of Jerusalem, with the benefit of hind-sight. The words he has Jesus purportedly state are quite wrong, the author would have no way of knowing

Trust you have more to say about the authors of Mark 13:1-2 and Luke 21:5-6
Authors rely of eye witness accounts to get way of knowing

Sarassin:
as I am sure you do, that there are more than just a few stones still standing there today

I am sure you do use hyperboles now and then in your everyday life too. For example: ''I am so hungry, I could eat a horse''

Sarassin:
John the Baptist was clearly a man of good sense. And talking about resurrection, you are aware that Hebrew influence regarding resurrection was largely assimilated from Zoroastrianism. The culture of "individual resurrection" came to Israel only after their contact with Persia. Zoroastrians had already believed in resurrection by 350BCE we know this from the writings of Theopompus. And just as an aside it has also transpired that the rabbinical conference held at Philadelphia has expressly declared that the belief in resurrection of the body has no foundation in Judaism, and that the belief in the immortality of the soul should take its place in the liturgy. Philadelphia Conf. 1869

I really was on about the resurrection of life and the resurrection of condemnation culminating to a resurrection to a spirit-based life

Sarassin:
Was your “Chi” wide awake when you typed this?

If it needs known, my ''Chi'' doesn't sleep nor slumbers

Sarassin:
I just know you are not trying to swing this past me. Are you seriously trying to pass of the Jewish-Roman war as that great and terrible day? The day of Judgement? The day the kingdom of God evinces?

Well, so happens, you are a professional and nice skeptic

Sarassin:
Did I just read you confidently assert that the arrival of one *like* Elijah in the person of John the Baptist was the herald for a mere Jewish revolt more than three decades after the death of both John the Baptist and Jesus of Nazareth? Pray do tell.

10So the disciples asked him, “Why, then, do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?”
11He answered them, “Elijah is indeed coming and will restore all things.
12But I tell you that Elijah has already come, yet peoplec did not recognize him and treated him just as they pleased. In the same way, the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.”
13Then the disciples understood that he had been speaking to them about John the Baptist.
- Matthew 17:10-13

I remember you taking ''high point'' literally, by replying with ''the ascension of Elijah on the chariots of fire'' when I asked the below two:
1) Do you remember the above Sarassin quote? (i.e. it's one of yours, it's an excerpt taken from your fouth post)
2) Hold on to that quote of yours to answer this question:
Elijah accomplished a lot in his career but what do you know or think was the high point of his ministry? (i.e. the most successful point of his career)

You even let it be known I was "leading the witness" when I asked you to revise your response
Whilst keeping in mind your original quote of John the Baptist, have another think on #2 about Elijah accomplished a lot in his career
but what do you know or think was the high point of his ministry? (i.e. the most successful point of his career)
Hint: It was a point, where God after, couldnt resist not commenting on it and opted for deferment

The blinkers will come off the moment you give the right response
and then the ''Elijah has already come'' in Matthew 17:10-13 etcetera will make sense too

Sarassin:
If you take a closer look at the birth stories of Isaak, Samuel and Samson all borne by latterly barren women of advanced ages and their births heralded by “Angels” or Men of God and certainly in the cases of Samuel, Samson and John the Baptist all “Nazarites”, it is quite clear to see that Luke’s birth stories of John the Baptist and the annunciation of Jesus are particularly modelled after that of Samuel.

Again, and your point is?

Sarassin:
There is no mention of a family relationship between Jesus and John in any of the other gospels and there is no allusion to it by either man. We have to take the word of the arch-storyteller Luke that Zechariah’s wife’s name is Elizabeth whom we are assured by Luke is a Levite and a descendant of the priestly Aaron, and just for good measure, for those who might have missed it, Zechariah himself is a priest of the house of Abijah therefore also a direct descendant of Aaron. Luke is making sure his readers are in no doubt of John’s double priestly descent, and if that is not enough…well he names the Immerser’s mother after Aaron’s wife!

The bolded in ''take the word of the arch-storyteller'' conceals your disdain for Luke and other scripture whatnots

Sarassin:
There are No historical facts, let alone biblical ones

Historically what happened to Jerusalem in AD 70? Your buddy ''the arch-storyteller, the historian well loved by Sarassin'' Josephus in ''The Wars Of The Jews'' or ''The History Of The Destruction Of Jerusalem''
Over one million killed and 97,000 carried away as captives

Biblically, what did Jesus say in Matthew 24:1-2 about this?

1As Jesus was leaving the Temple grounds, his disciples pointed out to him the various Temple buildings.
2But he responded, “Do you see all these buildings?
I tell you the truth, they will be completely demolished. Not one stone will be left on top of another!”
- Matthew 24:1-2

Sarassin:
No strawman here, you gave the following testimony of Jesus about John do you disagree with the words of Jesus?

13"For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John.
14"And if you are willing to accept it, John himself is Elijah who was to come.
15"He who has ears to hear, let him hear
- Matthew 11:13-15

I refer to your quote above as to what Jesus said. The inference is clear.

The inference you made, is not rightly deduced or inferred

I agree with the exact words in Luke 1:17 and agree with the words of Jesus corroborating that John himself is Elijah, as in John came and was born in the spirit and power of Elijah

10So the disciples asked him, “Why, then, do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?”
11He answered them, “Elijah is indeed coming and will restore all things.
12But I tell you that Elijah has already come, yet peoplec did not recognize him and treated him just as they pleased. In the same way, the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.”
13Then the disciples understood that he had been speaking to them about John the Baptist.
- Matthew 17:10-13

Sarassin:
As you know the bible neither supports nor teaches reincarnation, resurrection...

The Bible supports or teaches resurrection but not reincarnation.
Makes sense why John never agreed to be a reborn Elijah or reincarnated Elijah

Sarassin:
...yes, but then Elijah never demonstrably died therefore the question of a resurrection does not arise….if you forgive my pun.

ROTBL at demonstrably, you sure like to calculatingly or deliberately choose your words
You'll live to make another pun ojaare.

Fact is, after his translation to a different part of earth, Elijah continued to live on earth and obviously later died
Besides, Elijah hasnt access to no Tree of Life, to eat off, to make him live for ever

Sarassin:
Lastly,You declared somewhat grandly that:
SMH. Among other things in the above, I can't believe you are that bold to write:
That prophecy leaves no room for speculation as to likeness, resemblance, spirit or any other mechanism of obfuscation

I still can't believe you are that bold to have written that:
That prophecy leaves no room for speculation as to likeness, resemblance, spirit or any other mechanism of obfuscation

The likeness is made clear in Luke 1:17 concerning the Malachi 4:5 prophecy
and that

Sarassin:
But then you forget the latter part of the Malachi prophecy,
“……….before that great and dreadful day of the LORD comes.”

It would be fair to say that day has not yet arrived….don’t you agree?

This is a JJC already answered above question
and it is unfair for you to say that the latter part of the Malachi prophecy wasnt fulfilled when the great and dreadful day arrived and visited on AD 70

Sarassin:
No. Your entire premise that John the Baptist is Elijah

How do you mean, no.
You are doing a strawman with me, erh?
I never subscribed to any explanation that John the Baptist is Elijah
John the Baptist never agreed that he is Elijah
Jesus Christ never said that John the Baptist is Elijah in the flesh
Jesus Christ never said that John the Baptist is Elijah in bodily or human form

Sarassin:
appears to rely on an apparently non-historical statement by Luke, it is not attested by any other gospel writer and is in direct conflict with the original prophecy of Malachi. Even if I grant you that Luke's account is not pious fancifulness, and that the Baptist was indeed born with the spirit and power of Elijah, it still does not fulfil the prophecy of Malachi who, could no doubt have saved us all a load of grief by stating "I will send you one like Elias".

There you go again, now you're again skillfully ignoring the actual position and substituting it with your misinterpretation version

Sarassin:
You asked a question, I gave you an honest answer. If you have a different one that suits your pre-determined outcome better, please feel free to share

pre-determined outcome?

Sarassin:
Nope. You are putting words in my mouth. I mean exactly what I wrote

Sorry, but if ''“Reborn” is in the context of the re-appearance of the prophet Elijah in a manner that is to be easily and clearly identifiable by all and sundry at the fulfilment of the prophecy of Malachi'' doesnt equate to and mean reincarnation. Reincarnation as in Elijah reborn physically in the flesh and blood in the person of John the Baptist, I dont then know exactly what you wrote, and certainly arent putting words in your mouth
Seems you want to have your cake and eat it too

Sarassin:
Is this what lawyers refer to as "leading the witness"?

No, but since you deem this to be a trial, then take it to be something like a: ''judge advising the jury, for the jurors to align with the real facts, so as to come to a real verdict...''

Sarassin:
I am well aware of your highlighting Luke 1:17 and there was no misunderstanding on my part. In my view Luke’s “Infancy Gospel” of John the Baptist is largely unreliable. I would go as far as to say it is composed mainly to suit a series of parallel motives in the Old Testament birth-stories of Isaac, Samson and Samuel surely you can see that is more than a coincidence that the two ladies of this gospel of infancy, Miriam and Elizabeth, bear the names of Aaron's sister and wife

I woke up early this morning, planning to finish off replying to: https://www.nairaland.com/3029605/enigma-john-baptist/1#44663813
but then my eye caught the bolded quoted above.

How did I manage to have missed this.

What is your point?

Put your cards on the table man, as, I too, can tell you one or two names of other characters in NT bearing names of characters in OT
Again, what are you REALLY on about with this
''surely you can see that is more than a coincidence that the two ladies of this gospel of infancy, Miriam and Elizabeth, bear the names of Aaron's sister and wife'' remark?

Come on, spit it out
Dang, am beating myself for not earlier noticing your allusive remark

Sarassin:
Luke wrote in hindsight and all that he has done in 1:17 has been to subtly alter or modify the prophecy. You are on a very slippery slope if you hang the interpretation of Malachi 4:5 on Luke 1:17 if it is not based on historical fact.

Trust me, I hang not the interpretation of Malachi 4:5 on Luke 1:17 alone
The interpretation and/or fulfilment of Malachi 4:5 is based on not just historical facts but on biblical ones too

chubbyswit:
pride comes before downfall, guard against it and humble yourself. May joy and peace like a river overflow within you.

Please explain what you mean with this post, who specifically it was addressed to and why

Joagbaje:
So what translation do you endorse then?

translations that have ''income from your herb gardens'' or ''you tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs''

Joagbaje:
Tithe is based on income

Tithing the one commanded and made obligatory to the Isralotes was based on husbandry and nothing else

It is only if you cultivate the land or breed animals that you give tithes on increase from cultivating the land or breeding animals.

Artisans, like Jesus was a carpenter or cabinetmaker, didnt qualify to give tithes on their skilled craft works which might be woodwork, wooden furniture, decorative arts, clothing, jewellery etcetera

Joagbaje:
God used agricultural term because they were a nation of agric by default

It had nothing to do with God used agricultural term because they were a nation of agric by default

Though money was in existence, when this kind of tithing, which the Israelites were commanded to obey, the reasons among others, why God asked for tithe were:
1) For food to be in the temple, as in for the sustenance of the Levites who had no land inheritance in Promised Land
2) For the regular supply of animals like lambs needed for sacrificing at the temple to provide a temporary covering of sins until the perfect and complete sacrifice of the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ

Joagbaje:
Was ABRAHAM tithe based on agriculture?

No, Abraham's tithe was not based on agriculture

ABRAHAM did not give a tithe in the Deuteronomy 14:22-29 sense

As a matter of fact, to start with, Abraham's tithe was not commanded, to Abraham by God, to give, it was a voluntary tithe.
Secondly, Abraham did not tithe from his personal wealth, he did not tithe from his personal possession, he did not tithe from income money he had
Lastly and importantly, Abraham tithed on the spoils of war
Abraham gave tithe on things taken from some kings by force

Abraham's tithe and the Israelites tithing are two different things

Joagbaje:
Tithe is tenth of income, gain, profit as a principle

22“You shall surely tithe all the produce from what you sow, which comes out of the field every year.
23“And you shall eat in the presence of the LORD your God, at the place where He chooses to establish His name, the tithe of your grain, your new wine, your oil, and the first-born of your herd and your flock, in order that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always.
24“And if the distance is so great for you that you are not able to bring the tithe, since the place where the LORD your God chooses to set His name is too far away from you when the LORD your God blesses you,
25then you shall exchange it for money, and bind the money in your hand and go to the place which the LORD your God chooses.
26“And you may spend the money for whatever your heart desires, for oxen, or sheep, or wine, or strong drink, or whatever your heart desires; and there you shall eat in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household.
27“Also you shall not neglect the Levite who is in your town, for he has no portion or inheritance among you
- Deuteronomy 14:22-27

The principle and instruction for giving tithes is that of Deuteronomy 14:22-27
Israelites who happen to be artisans, fishermen etctera are not required to give tithe

Joagbaje:
It's not a New Testament revelation. He never dwelt in buildings. He told David same thing

Since you posted ''They were ministers in the house of God'' it was brought to your attention to signify that we minister to the Soul, via the heart, as that is where God wants dwells in and not any of those typical cathedrals or large and imposing church buildings

Joagbaje:
Not needed

Facing the truth shouldnt be scary, as facing the truth will really set one free

Joagbaje:
What they receive was not only for levite consumption. They were like managers. What they received was for the running of the work in he temple and their welfare is gotten there also

Exactly what I wrote.
Yes, they were specially selected by God to be 100% & full time service responsible for the upkeep of this physical and man made purposely built temple

Demanding with a threat of a curse if not obliging and substituing a defunct tithing which purposely was used for the Levites and the now destroyed temple towards the upkeep of cathedrals, the typical large and imposing church buildings or amphitheatres and the clergy is an aberration

Joagbaje:
He never lived in a building. He told David same thing

Straw man fallacy

Joagbaje:
ABRAHAM didn't require a physical temple to tithe. Only a high priest was required. we are followers of Abraham faith

As earlier said, Abraham's tithe and the Israelites tithing are two different things. The context are different, the circumstances that formed the setting for the Abraham's tithe, the Jacob's promise-to-tithe and the Israelites tithing all have three different settings

No doubt, the Abraham's tithe and the Israelites tithing's common denominator is a high priest receiving tithe
but subtle message is that:
Levites, as priests of God, have no inheritance,
Levites gave tithe to Melchizedek via being in Abraham's seed
The Israelites, who are more priviledged than the Levites were commanded to give to the lesser (i.e. the foreigner, Levites, the fatherless and the widows etc) as can be seen in the definition of the tithe in Dt 14:22-29
God wants believers give to the High Priest cheerfully, decide in the heart how much to give.
Not to give reluctantly, not to give in response to pressure or threat of a curse but to give to the lesser (e.g. the stranger, the fatherless, the widows, anyone in need etc) because of Matthew 25:40, Matthew 10:42 and Matthew 25:45

Joagbaje:
ABRAHAM had no levite

ABRAHAM had Levite(s).
The seed from which the Levites came, was in Abraham’s body...

Joagbaje:
Church money doesn't belong to pastor. Christ is our high priest. A pastor is not a collector of tithes.

What?! A pastor is not a collector of tithes? What a mistaken belief

Joagbaje:
He is rather a tither himself. Pastoring is only a responsibility. Most pastors have their jobs. As bankers, lawyers business men etc. but few pastors who by the reason of their responsibility have to give full attention to the ministry work are the only one who get support or allowances in the ministry.

Exactly the point, no one is against supporting, if needed be supported or assisted with allowance but not be dependent on or ogling at tithes
Pastors, tithe sympathisers or anyone else for that matter, greedy for filthy lucre, shouldnt be hijacking verses and twist or divert them for use to legitimise receiving MONEY, as tithe giving, instead, of according Deuteronomy 14:22-29, agric produce .

Joagbaje:
Bank money does not belong to bank manager

It is God who gives power to all to get wealth
Believers money belongs believers, God wants a believer to give cheerfully, decide in the heart how much to give.
And not to give reluctantly, not to give in response to pressure or threat of a curse.

Bank managers dont coerce bank customers

Joagbaje:
He is only a steward. That's same thing with ministry.

1 Peter 4:10 - Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, as faithful stewards of God's grace in its various forms

Stewardship is not exclusive to them alone
All believers are faithful stewards of God's grace in its various forms or manner

Joagbaje:
He was a Jew and he fulfilled the customs and the righteousness of the law. Even the cleansing of baptism when he had no sin to be cleansed of.

Psalms 22:25
My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation:
I will pay my vows before them that fear him

All except for tithing, He didnt give tithe because He wasnt legally bound to give tithe
or as a carpenter or cabinetmaker He wasnt required to give tithe

Joagbaje:
Luke 11:42 (TLB)
"But woe to you Pharisees! For though you are careful to tithe even the smallest part of your income, you completely forget about justice and the love of God. You should tithe, yes but you should not leave these other things undone

"What sorrow awaits you Pharisees!
For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore justice and the love of God.
You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things.
- Luke 11:42

And you conveniently completely chose to use the translations without ''income from your herb gardens''

Joagbaje:
Kindly point out where the bible says otherwise

The bible categorically points to husbandry and nothing else. It is only if you cultivate the land or breed animals that you give tithes on only these two things. Jesus was a carpenter or cabinetmaker so didnt qualify to give tithes on woodwork or wooden furniture

Joagbaje:
They were ministers in the house of God

Acts 7:48 - "However, the Most High does not live in houses made by human hands. As the prophet says:

1 Corinthians 3:16 - Do you not know that you are God's Sanctuary, and that the Spirit of God has His home within you?

1 Corinthians 3:9 - For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building.

The Levites were mandated to collect tithes given because they had no inheritance, and so that food be in the house for the Levites who were responsible for the upkeep of this physical and made made built temple

The temple that the Levites used to receive tithes given by the Israelites was destroyed in 70 AD. The destruction also signified the final nail in the coffin of tithe giving's expiration

God doesnt live in houses built by men anymore but now lives within you

Joagbaje:
They are ministers in Gods house as well

Pastors have no biblical mandate or authorisation to receive tithe for the following few reasons
1) The physical temple has been destroyed, and its destruction at 70 AD put an end to tithe giving
2) Pastors are not Levites
3) Pastor has inheritances

Jozzy4:
u never answered the question

Dont you know that, question dodging is a skill and him not never answering the question is a calculated and intentional avoidance to prevent facing a truth

Jozzy4:
- if u call yourself a pastor, how come you are deceived with the word "income" at Luke 11:42, does it appear in the greek ? or another attempt to fraud your ignorant members with spurious translations ? am dissapointed in you

Blame it on serious doctrinal errors and people having a grubby way of getting their hands dirty with filthy lucre

Jozzy4:
- how does Luke 11:42 prove Jesus paid tithe?

It doesnt but tithe sympathisers or anyone greedy for filthy lucre, hijack this verse and twist or divert it for use to legitimise receiving money, as opposed to agric produce, as tithe giving

Joagbaje:
Prove he didn't

Take a pick from prior inexhaustible reasons given above

Jozzy4:
do we found tithing among his apostles ?

No we do not find tithing among his Apostles because the apostles mostly were fishermen
and the Bible didnt ask to tithe on fish increase

suzan404:
Who Owned That Noted Bird That Cried When Peter Denied The Lord For The Third Time?
It Is A Notable Cock,Indeed, as It Was Mentioned By Christ Himself In The Prophecy.

https://s9.postimg.org/60w5v2e4r/crowed.jpg
Who Was The Owner Of The Ccock That Crowed When Peter Denied Jesus 3 Times?
Good question and only notable that there was no literal ccock that crowed,
so therefore, there is no owner, and consequently no name for the owner of an imaginary ccockerel.

Asking important questions like these, changes teachings done in error
and bursts wide open Christian misconceptions, misinterpretations or misrepresentations

We all know the New Testament was written 100-300 years after Jesus Christ died
and it is important questions like these that makes one realise that there's quite a whole deal more in the Bible than meets the eyes
also that a lot got lost in translations from Aramaic/Hebrew to Greek, Greek and to English due to not being familiar with Aramaic/Hebrew/Jewish words idioms, customs, Temple activities etc

Anyway to start with no fowls (i.e. ccocks) were allowed in Jerusalem in those times, so no one owned (i.e. ccocks) and so there aren't owners of fowls (i.e. ccocks) in Jerusalem then

Without bogging you down or boring you with too much details, the rooster or fowl (i.e. ccock) in the original Aramaic/Hebrew form used by Jesus is the Aramaic/Hebrew word "gever", "geber", "gaver" or "gawra".

This word (i.e. "gever", "geber", "gaver" or ''gawra'') is mistranslated
and in both Greek and English languages, it ended up being mistranslated or mis-tagged to mean our feathered friend, fowl, ccock, or "cóck-a-doodle-doo Mr Rooster"

Anyway, from here on, I am sticking to using only "gever" for the rest of this post.

Now, "gever" is man.
"Gever" means man and as far as this post is concerned, one wont be far from the truth, if one assumes, this man to be like a town crier,
but there is more to it, as the man actually is like the Muslims' muezzin, the man who from the mosque's tower, announces the time for prayers and the call to Muslims for prayer and worship services

The "gever" as a matter of fact, as opposed to being a "town crier" or "Muslims' muezzin" actually is the Temple Crier
In the temple courtyard, just like the "Muslims' muezzin" does, the Temple Crier's priestly duty is to call out to begin service
and he would announce or call out something, similar to the following effect:
"Rise up, all the priests, to your service, prepare to sacrifice!"
"All the Levites to your stations!"
"All the Israelites to your posts, come to worship!"

It was this priest’s call to service, made in the temple courtyard or from the temple courtyard and not far from the "kangaroo court" where Jesus Christ was being interrogated, that was heard by Peter and not the sound of a crowing fowl (i.e. not the sound of a crowing ccock)

Jesus, in effect prophesied that before the "gever" (i.e. the Temple Crier or man) makes the announcement (i.e. phóneó - to call out) for service, Peter would have denied him three times and as we all know, this prophecy came to pass, just as prophesied, it got fulfilled to a tee.

Imagine this in your mind. Trust, we all would agree, how heart wrenching and painfully torn between the conscience, it would be for one, if immediately after denying Jesus, one heard this call to prepare to sacrifice, call to service and called to be at a post which one has three times denied and vacated. This is exactly what happened, this is what Peter experienced and felt

Matthew 26:75
Suddenly, Jesus' words flashed through Peter's mind:
"Before the MAN rooster CALLS OUT crows, you will deny three times that you even know me."
And he went away, weeping bitterly.

FROM https://www.nairaland.com/2477733/truelyyou-christian-answer-bible-quiz#36279344

Sarassin:
No. Your entire premise that John the Baptist is Elijah appears to rely on an apparently non-historical statement by Luke, it is not attested by any other gospel writer and is in direct conflict with the original prophecy of Malachi. Even if I grant you that Luke's account is not pious fancifulness, and that the Baptist was indeed born with the spirit and power of Elijah, it still does not fulfil the prophecy of Malachi who, could no doubt have saved us all a load of grief by stating "I will send you one like Elias".

You asked a question, I gave you an honest answer. If you have a different one that suits your pre-determined outcome better, please feel free to share.

Nope. You are putting words in my mouth. I mean exactly what I wrote.

Is this what lawyers refer to as "leading the witness"?

Sorry for the delayed reply, promise to reply back asap, please bear with me...

JMG1:
Sorry bro av not really had time to check or reply since my last post yesterday. Work and other things been eating up my time.

Brother, so many confusion in your method of explaining the Word which the Holy Spirit should be allowed to help discern spiritually and not by human wisdom. Your method seems like one who's gone/going to a theological school and trying to bring what you have been taught on here.

Not saying a theological school isn't good as I seriously wish to go as well to be grounded in the Word but as one is doing that, we also need to involve the Holy Spirit to give a deep revelation concerning the Word of God.

Am sorry to say this sir but there is a trait of arrogance in your teaching and the way you give replies.

Lots of wonderful brethren who have been contributing on here teach and explain the Word with all decency and humility and even when they reply a post, they do that with all caution rephrasing the post been quoted with better explanation and calmness

I'll give an example, its just me"assume am the student" trying to analyse something to you"assume you the teacher" but you as the teacher thinks you know it all and have better understand not bringing yourself down to learn from the student who thinks you were wrong in a way and trying to give an explanation forgetting that one can learn something far great from the student.

Because you think you know more of tongues and interpretation and can discern the wonderful Word of God with all wisdom judge me, accuse me of speaking gillberish"not speaking in tongues" and been under the delusion of something I don't know.

With all due respect sir Who are you to judge me from my post and say I don't speak in tongues.

Thank God am a born again Christian filled with the Holy Spirit, if not I'll have started thinking you were right about me speaking nonsense.

Infact I almost believed you but the One Who lives in me greater than any other thing or person in the world assured me He is in me and always will be given me the confidence to say with all boastfulness that I have God in me and I speak in tongues of man and angel.

Guess what brother, I spoke/prayed to my father in tongues this morning. Hahahahaha filled with Joy in me.

I give thanks unto the Lord for He, for He is good. His mercies endures forever.

My last post and comment concerning this. God bless you brother and I pray the Holy Spirit help you to bear more of the fruit of the Spirit

But before I post, lemme share what the Holy Spirit reveal to again about tongues.

When God created adam, it was the spirit language Adam was communication with to God in the garden of eden before the fall.

Even after the fall, God only prophesy concerning the curse on Adam but He didn't take away this language until God confused our language when they wanted to build the tower.

This tongues is our natural(when I say natural, I mean natural to our spirit) language right from time, its only become a big deal/sign to us because of the fall and also because God has given to us back our spirit natural language through the Holy Spirit

"Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. Gen11:1"

The Whole earth had ONE language&Speech, can you see that?

Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.”Gen 11:4

they communicated with this same ONE language to build a tower and they almost did.

When we are being baptised in the Holy Ghost and can speak in tongues, individual tongues might sound different but its still One and the same tongues to God.
We all receive the same spirit as a believer and the same spirit gives us One language which makes us one

"But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Gen 11:5-6"

Did you see what God said? If as ONE, they speak ONE language, please specifically note this:- NOTHING THEY PLAN TO DO WILL BE IMPOSSIBLE FOR THEM.

Ohhhh Myyyyy God, as I was studying the tongues, Holy Spirit took me back to this and was amazed when the revelation of this passage in the scripture was given to me. This is a supernatural utterances bro and not english or any language on earth, this is a supernatural language.

Speaking in tongues is a supernatural utterance, this tongues makes God to break in pieces the gates of bronze and cut the bars of iron. It breaks in to any bondage whatsoever, there is nothing you ask for when you pray in tongues that won't be done because the spirit prays concerning the Will of God and with Power.

" Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other. Gen 11:7"

What happened here? God took the language of POWER that can break any barrier and gave them other different languages.

What I explained here bro is what they call revelation of the Word by the Holy Spirit and not human wisdom.

Advice to those who desire to speak in tongues. Hunger for righteousness and desire to speak and you will be given this gift.

For those who do, please I advice we don't stop nor forbid to speak. Pray and sing in tongues as much as you like, the more you pray in tongues, the more answers to all your request and not only just answers but manifestation of this answers as NOTHING YOU DESIRE AND ASK WHEN YOU PRAY IN THE SPIRIT WILL BE IMPOSSIBLE FOR YOU TO HAVE. Also pray that you may interpret for paul says He who prophesy is greater than who speaks so we all should desire to interpret

God bless us all and I still love you with the love of Christ bro MuttleyLaff

holahmihdeh:
Is praying in tongues written verbatim in the bible? Sorry your questions are funny. Maybe that is the reason you are misinterpreting many verses. didn't Jesus talked in parables? There. are versions of the bible that will never write "sex" but something like "sleep with him or her". so u would interprete the later as "merely sleeping beside each other" cuz sex wasn't written?

Yes, it is neither brain surgery nor rocket science but that didn't ans the questn. How did u know? Have u heard him speak in tongues for you to have made that conclusion (I'm not taking sides here) Meaning You could as well say Kenneth Hagin was also under delusion cuz from his book "the holy spirit and his gifts" he received holy spirit by faith and in the process of thanking God for the baptism, speaking in tongues followed immediately

What is the difference BTW praying in tongues and praying in the Holy Spirit?

What or who brings about praying in tongues?

You didn't venture into love but u brought up 1 Cor13:8 and u asked JMG1 to read versions of that verse in which I posted the NLT version, so u don't need avoid any questions on it.

JMG1, holahmihdeh Sorry for this delayed and short reply
JMG1 remember I said I'll will soon give you an offer too good to refuse, I knew this medium is inadequate and that it'll soon come to this, that is why I was preempt this other medium I am proposing to you
I have set up a Skype group titled ''tongues'', I would like us to mutually agree on a day and time convenient for me to send you an invite to join, so we can sort out the speaking in tongue thing in its entirety.
This will be done according to the instructive in Isaiah 28:10
(i.e. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little

Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old self with its practices
- Colossian 3:9

But speaking the truth in love, we should grow up in all things into Him who is the head, Christ,
- Ephesian 4:15

Again brother, this born out of the sense of duty and the purpose as found in Colossian 3:9 above which tells us not to lie to each other
and also the instructive in Ephesian 4:15 equally above, which tells us to speak the truth in love

This request goes out to you JMG1 and Sister holahmihdeh too
Both please get back to me asap to advise date and time so to mail you the Skype Group invite

Shalom

Sarassin:
What other form are we to take the statement “I will send you Elias” when does a literal statement become allegorical and who makes the determination that such a statement is figurative, and on what criterion?

God, the giving of the prophecy does, that is why the angel specifically mentioned to Zechariah that John the Baptist will born with spirit and power of Elijah

Sarassin:
1. I certainly remember the quote.

Good but you didnt keep it mind though when answering #2 below

Sarassin:
2. I would say the ascension of Elijah on the chariots of fire.

I think you deliberately chose this one because you have sussed from the hint, where I would be going if you had mentioned the correct answer

Sarassin:
3. My use of the term “Reborn” is in the context of the re-appearance of the prophet Elijah in a manner that is to be easily and clearly identifiable by all and sundry at the fulfilment of the prophecy of Malachi.

In short you mean reincarnation. Reincarnation as in Elijah reborn physically in the flesh and blood in the person of John the Baptist. Am I right?

Sarassin:
4. No, the term "Reborn" is not included in the prophecy of Malachi, It was the term used by the Jewish leaders to inquire of the baptist whether he was Elias.

Thank you for your honesty, but hey no surprises there, as the Jewish leaders most times goof with interpretations.

Please review your #2 answer, keeping your repentance quote and the hint given in mind when revising it

sonofthunder:
and the question?

Have you mistaken threads for the other? What question?

holahmihdeh:
I have followed the conversation bwt you and JMG1 with keen interest.

My sister, I dont think you really have followed it keenly enough. To follow exchanges is fun but doing proper observation or examining is boring and I guess that is why people cherry pick and stay off the hot potato questions in the exchanges

holahmihdeh:
I only have few questions for you sir:

Why dont you first offer to answer the 10 starting questions and if necessary, the additional ones too, I initially asked JMG1, instead of this soliciting

holahmihdeh:
1. How did u know JMG1 is under delusion and not really speaking in tongues?

It's not brain surgery, sorry about the pun. OK, let's just say it's not rocket science

holahmihdeh:
2. Are you saying the Bible is against speaking in tongues, going by your question of the record of speaking in tongues in the Bible?

No I dont, never in the slightest suggested that. It just proves what I said, you havent followed the exchanges with keen interest but followed it rather with vested interest

holahmihdeh:
3. Going by your theological analysis of the body, soul and spirit, does that mean speaking in tongues comes from the body to the soul to the spirit and back to the body via the spirit?

Again, if you really followed, you would have figured out the reason why I had to bring in the extensive ''thesis'' on soul in relation to ''my understanding is unfruitful'' or ''my mind profit not'' and intelligible or coherent words (i.e. 1 Corinthians 14:13-15 and 1 Corinthians 14:19)

holahmihdeh:
4. Is it wrong to pray in tongues? Jude: 20: "but you beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit.

Let me edit your question and turn it back on you
Is it wrong to pray in languages? No
Is it wrong to pray in gibberish? Yes

Sister are you sure, 110% sure ''pray in tongues'' verbatim is in the Bible
Jude 1:20 is not saying ''pray in tongues'' now

Since when did ''praying in the Holy Spirit'' turn to mean ''pray in a coherent intelligible meaningful foreign language''?

That is not what ''praying in the Holy Spirit.'' is or is about
You would now appreciate why I brought up the body, soul and spirit.
What I didnt add, though I seriously wanted to but couldnt because the whole write was overwhelming already as it was, is that:
The body is worldly conscious and relates to the environment
The soul is self conscious and relates to self & others
The spirit is God conscious and relates to God

holahmihdeh:
5. 1 Cor 13:8 "prophecy and speaking in unknown languages will become useless but love will last forever" (NLT) but the same Paul also said: 1 Cor 14: 5: "I wish you could all speak in tongues, but even more I wish you could all prophesy. In my little understanding, Paul was only emphasizing more on Love. You can expantiate.

Like I told JMG1, I didnt venture on to Love, though it helps my corner, I am not interested as contextually it has nothing to do with the genesis or core of this discourse, so please dont bring in a red herring. Yeah they are wishes. Paul wished, it is not Paul ordering a do or die
Sorry, I will no can do expantiate, because it is distracting and moving away from the core and original of what JMG1 brought up

sonofthunder:
you think I could not have easily mentioned Paul, Jesus Christ or pastor Chris?

Whatever floats your boat bro

JMG1:
To let this matter rest, I'll give you what you want.

You owe me nothing to give bro

JMG1:
"Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away."

Prophesy cease to come, tongues become still and knowledge "WILL" fade. Above all Love never fails. Since God is love, we should desire Love more than all this gifts.

''Since God is love, we should desire Love more than all this gifts'' is your conclusion. I never, didnt and wasnt engaging you about gifts
You brought up the issue about talking in a foreign language (i.e. speak in a tongue) and so speaking in a foreign language has been the core of our exchanges, at least mine if speaking for myself alone because I noticed you drifting on gifts at any slightest chance

I was not into love, nor shoving ''... God is love, we should desire Love more than all this gifts''down anyone who wants to hear throats. That was you again, misunderstanding, misinterpreting and second-guessing me

JMG1:
I still hold on to the fact that Love is a fruit of the spirit and I was specifically asking about the gift but I'll let it skip

You see yourself again, there you go on about Love etcetera. I think you're confused and wasnt said in malice

JMG1:
I as a person even tho I desire much spiritual gift, I rather bear much more fruits of the spirit. Christ like attitude and character is the key and this I pray for everyday, to live a Christ like life.

Meanwhile this trend is dry today ooo, it seems people are just hanging in the corner viewing and learning from the very Teacher MuttleyLaff in 3D

FYI, fruit of the Spirit is singular, not ''fruits'' plural
You havent been useful kind with all those sneering, and you desire more of the fruit of the Spirit. This is like an orange tree desiring to sprout apple fruits

When a person resorts to name-calling like bro's done just now, it is obvious he had in that moment abandoned humility & courtesy in favor of maligning & insolence. issorite carry on

''By the grace of God, I was able to interpret/prophesy my tongues to a few group of people when I concentrated more on tongues from my spirit and I have also received revelations from God from tongues as well.
Yes most times my understanding is unfruitful but I admit that am growing and am also praying to be able to interpret as am suppose to''
- JMG1

Since you havent answered the additional questions are put to you, would it be wise to ask further question concerning the above quote
Does the above quote look familiar to you?
Please indulge me and honestly too, out of curiousty, who were the people in '' I was able to interpret/prophesy my tongues to a few group of people''?

JMG1:
Brother, at my end here I smile mostly when am even typying my reply. Humility is what makes me say I won't stop growing but the truth is that you are not giving me what I need. Don't get me wrong, I didn't say am not learning but your method of teaching is what I have issues with

Trust me bro, I am smiling too
and I was talking about pseudo humility, remember

JMG1:
you are still asking me to look at diff translation. This is just simple english question. I understand the context in 1cor 13:8 but my question was based on gifts, I didn't ask question relating gifts with fruits

"Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away."

Good, Remember "precept upon precept, line on line, line on line, a little there, a little there"? Well remember I mentioned this rule at the beginning. That is how I started, but you were and are lagging behind.

OK define and give me your understanding of "stilled"

Besides again, context is king, be mindful of the text background and all.

JMG1:
All paul mention are gifts of the spirit except Love which is the fruit. Do you know you don't have to have either of the gifts of the spirit untill you bear all the fruits of the spirit. You can possess some gifts of the spirit but might not bear much fruits but without the fruits particulary Love, it won't last.

Either small or big picture bro, my question was based on best gifts which I already analyse and not the fruit. If it was an exam you were writting, you would have missed it for sure. Humble yourself bro and admit that you were wrong and stop trying to bail yourself out with the fruit of the spirit

But I still Love you with the Love of Christ sha. Shalom to you

Context bro. Context. Regardless all, I wont and never will stop loving you bro :-)

JMG1:
Whewwwww, you just don't want to admit you got that wrong but asking me to look at the context. Love is not a gift of the spirit but fruit of the spirit. I ask which is the best gift paul talked about and not best fruit. Paul is just try to say without the fruit of the spirit, particularly Love , all the gifts of the spirit is worthless. Because Love covers all

Bro why, why, why didn't you take to my advice to go through all translations on 1 Corinthians 13:8?

You looked at the bigger picture of that verse but missed noticing the smaller and important detail. SMH

Please do yourself a favour, read and paste here as many translations of it you can find.
Or you want me to do it for you?

JMG1:
I remember you and vooks had to deal with one particular issue back and forth and all the while saying the same thing but u insisted on him getting it right in your own way bfore the matter died down. Well you said something like withdrawal? Me withdraw. I'll rather watch and learn than to withdraw if I don't know anything. But with all due respect sir, you really do not know how to teach. I think you need to get the basics right

Here you go again, misreading and misinterpreting what I wrote same way you do with the Bible. You made your remark the way you wrote it because you subconsciously wanted to alienate me and get me to withdraw. I wasnt saying anything about you withdrawing

Also learn to stand your ground and fight your corner without needing to draw in or mentioning a third party or any other party like vooks again.

You my dear sir, is one who hasn't got a teachable spirit

JMG1:
At this junction, I will assume I don't know anything. Now back to the question I raise earlier before this whole this started. I asked that question to gain more knowledge as I didn't quite understand. Some of the brethren here explained and now I do but I don't mind if you can also put more light on it if you know. We learn everyday bro, the same scripture you think you spiritually understand is the same scripture you will question when you have a deeper understanding through the Holy Spirit.

You see, there you go with that attitude again
Please calm yourself down, farabale

JMG1:
Either, milk, meat, turkey, rice, all I need is the RIGHT DIET to keep growing. I'll never stop growing, I wish and want to know more of my Father is in heaven and dwells in me.

Sarcasm this way and in this manner, is not going to help on this matter bro. Curtail it and humble yourself. Humble, as in, real humble and not the pseudo humble one

JMG1:
The bible is a very complex book and it can only discern it spiritually. Its not something you know at a go, like what I said earlier on, its a gradual process and I have not said I am grown, no but I want to but I need the RIGHT DIET, if not I won't.

You really can't know it all coz u missed the last question

(Love, hmm, love. I am not dodging your last questions, as I want you to look into 1 Corinthians 13:8 )

Love is one of the fruit of the spirit bro Gal 5:22 and not a gift.

Let me share more light to it Corinthians 14:1-2
14 Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy. 2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue[a] does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.

Do you note the word "especially"? Prophesy.
Now note what follows, he talks about tongues.

Interpretation of tongues spoken is the prophesy, do you realise that off all the gifts of the spirit, tongues and interpretation is the only one that paul specifically talked about. Almost a whole chapter "14"

This has been prophesy by prophet joel in joel 2:28-29
“And afterward,I will pour out my Spirit on all people.Your sons and daughters will prophesy,your old men will dream dreams,your young men will see visions. 29.Even on my servants, both men and women,I will pour out my Spirit in those days.

Peter refer back to it in acts 2:17-18
Tongues and interpretation is a gift of the spirit and its a ministry on its own. That's why paul asked us to pray that we may interpret.

In order words, Prophesy "speaking in tongues and interpretation" is the best gift of all and everyone "believer" should atleast function in this, if not in other gifts.

Shalom.....

https://i57.tinypic.com/34sp9j4.gif
Who is claiming to know it all?
Have you not heard of ''... iron sharpeth iron...''.

Please dont pull that sort of prank on me or anyone else for that matter, especially when they only were trying to give assistance

Remarks like of yours, usually comes from someone feeling intimidated and it causes alienation or withdrawal
Maybe to cause withdrawal was your plan :-)

You obviously didnt read 1 Corinthians 13:8 PROPERLY to get the understanding :-)
Without malice, you read the bible without being educated, if you did, you wouldnt have missed what is glaring in 1 Corinthians 13:8
but then you've already admitted you need the RIGHT DIET, which incidentally is either milk or falsehood
Please get your hand on as many bible translations of 1 Corinthians 13:8 you can get your hands on, and read it SLOWLY OUT LOUD
The penny might drop for you if you do it that way, when the Holy Spirit helps you spot the crucial

As say earlier, we havent even touched or made any effort yet, to deal with the misconception on tongues that you originally raised asking help
on

Shalom bro

JMG1:
Been quite busy sir, just read this since yesterday so sorry I didn't reply on time.

Are you familiar with and understand 1 Corinthians 14:27–28?

Ans= 1 Corinthians 14:27-28

27 If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret. 28 But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God.

Bro to speak in tongues is a form of spiritual communication, when you are speaking in tongues, you speak to God and no other. That is why paul asked us not to forbid speaking in tongues because no earthly language whatsoever, be it french , german, chinese, english etc can function as its just a language but speaking in tongues is speaking to God, you speak mysteries when you speak in tongues. The spirit speaks based on the will of God and not from the carnal mind and when God speaks back to you also through that tongues, its for revelation, prophesy.

Paul saying keep silent does not mean you shouldn't speak in tongues in the church, he only means if there is a prophesy from God, he that speak in tongues should also interpret for the edification of the church

Prophesy means speaking the things of God concerning what is to happen. The interpretation of tongues is usually a message from God,"prophesy"

And paul said let him speak to himself and God, means if he does not have any message from God to the church, speak to God. Don't forget I said speaking in tongues is a form of spiritual communication between an individual and God.

What you make of 1 Corinthians 14:27-28?

Ans= if you read my first answer sir, you will understand

Do you at all adhere to the instruction in 1 Corinthians 14:27-28?

Ans= Yes I do. Where I worship, we have received a prophesy like this many times. When we engage in aggressive worship in church, God passes message and instruction to us through tongues, its mostly but not all time done by someone in particular who has the gift of interpretation. What she does is, speak in tongues then interpret " which is speak in tongues and prophesy and we all are edified because we understands what God is saying to the church

And I also have started praying in tongues when I needed to go spiritual in church when prayer points is been called.


Where in the Bible have you read about praying in tongues, please I need the text?

Ans= For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. I Cor 14:14

If I "PRAY", he didn't say "speak". The bible does not need to give you all the details before you u can understand this context. Its just simple and straight.

With your questions makes me really want to ask this questions because am not sure you understand the importance of tongues to a believer.

Do you at all speak in tongues?
Do you know that all gifts of the spirit is a ministry on its own?
Do you know that there is one particular gift which all believer should have? What is that gift?
Paul says desire the best gifts? What is this gift and explain it

Bro I've told you before that context is king, if you read a text in isolation, you're under a pretext and pretending yourself
I have explained the context surrounding ''I pray in an unknown tongue'' and gave you the Igbo Hausa language illustration
You arent getting nothing and this is preventing me from moving on to get this thing properly started
If you dont get the basics or know the fundamentals why should I move on. How can I move on

It seems you arent used to strong meat

Trust me bro, this is a labour of love for me and done for Kingdom sake

Love, hmm, love. I am not dodging your last questions, as I want you to look into 1 Corinthians 13:8

Sarassin:
Kudos, you are the first Christian to admit an interpolation in the Testimonium Flavium, my point was that Josephus was not biased against Jesus or Christianity as you seek to pursue. He simply recorded his own knowledge of events.

Fair do's to your giving the ''kudos'' over the mutual agreement on the Testimonium Flavium intepolation, but mind you, what's with the Christian tag, you're sounded for a second there like King Agrippa :-)
Hmm, I'll hold my peace on that :-)

Sarassin:
The point is with the exception of a few verses in the Book of Acts known as the "We"documents where it is apparent that your Dr. Luke was an eyewitness to certain events pertaining to the movements of Paul, everything else he wrote, particularly in the Gospel of Luke was based on pious hearsay and tittle-tattle. His infancy gospel of John the Baptist is especially dubious, Luke may have regarded himself an historian but he was no more an historian than the authors of the Gospels of Mark or Matthew

''By no stretch of the imagination is the gospel author of Luke an eyewitness to the accounts he wrote nor is he an historian.''
- Sarassin

Remember it was the above quote where you rubbished Luke as a non-historian that prompted me pulling out Luke 1:1-3
I was not setting out to wrangle over Luke's historian pedigree but only to make the point that if Josephus who incidentally was born in 37CE (i.e. a year after John the Baptist died) and was not an eye witness to John the Baptist but could write accounts about him, then what's the hullabaloo over Luke about. Why the denigration that he isnt a historian, when Luke had already and clearly stated in Luke 1:1-3 his intention, to write an orderly account for the pleasure of His Excellency, Theophilus.

Sarassin:
This also begs the question, If John bore no such resemblance to Elijah, why then would anybody claim on John's behalf that he was Elijah?

Misinterpretation is the reason, as in, does understanding something like this, incorrectly, strike a cord with you

Sarassin:
We should be clear that John the Baptist never applied Mal. 4:5 to himself when pressed, in fact he took refuge in the prophecy of Isa. 40:3 which would apply more aptly to his mission of bursting forth the "messianic spring" and hastening the arrival of the kingdom of God

I am so glad and immensely grateful that you admit to John the Baptist never applied Mal. 4:5 to himself when pressed BUT in fact he took refuge in the prophecy of Isa. 40:3 which would apply more aptly to his mission.

You've cut the work in half with that admittance and paved way for a plain sailing.
I will soon explain why John the Baptist never applied Mal. 4:5 to himself when pressed, BUT in fact INSTEAD took refuge in the prophecy of Isa. 40:3

Sarassin:
But here is the problem. The Old Testament prophesied that Elijah himself (not someone "like" him or someone "similar" to him, but Elijah himself) would return before the advent of the Messiah. Jesus declared that John the Baptist was Elijah who had returned, stating quite bluntly "Elijah has come"

There is no problem, unless if it's you, like the Jews inserting a problem by doing a literal interpretation of Malachi.
Running with Mal. 4:5 and taking words ''I will send you Elijah'' in their usual or most basic sense without consideration of metaphor
I earlier provided you with Luke 1:5-19 and purposely highlighted Luke 1:17 to draw attention to the bolded
I followed by deliberately stating ''Zechariah, his father'' to be a stimulus to connect or join the dots in:
''John the Baptist was well versed in the scriptures, equally knew what Malachi 4:5 really meant, as this was explained to Zechariah, his father, in Luke 1:17, by an angel''
but alas, you chose not to see or failed to understand the implication of the remark

Sarassin:
So, based on that statement alone, one of the following must be true:

(i) John the Baptist was Elijah himself, meaning that Elijah was reborn.

(ii) John the Baptist was not Elijah himself, meaning that Elijah himself had not returned. And if this is so, then either:

The Old Testament prophecy about Elijah returning before the Messiah failed to come to pass OR quite simply Jesus was not the Messiah. That prophecy leaves no room for speculation as to likeness, resemblance, spirit or any other mechanism of obfuscation.

In my view, Jesus or more pertinently, gospel writers had a vested interest in identifying the Baptist as Elijah, since by so doing, they identify Jesus to the Jews as the Messiah. John the Baptist denied he was Elijah reborn hence the Jews rejected Jesus as their Messiah.

It boils down to this: Jesus said John was Elijah, and John said he wasn't. Which of the two is to be believed - Jesus or John?

SMH. Among other things in the above, I can't believe you are that bold to write:
That prophecy leaves no room for speculation as to likeness, resemblance, spirit or any other mechanism of obfuscation.

You dont half make me laugh with the way you displayed a very dramatic and comical outburst in trying to be unconcerned, unaffected and not moved by Luke 1:17, which clearly DEOBFUSCATED Malachi 4:5, by throwing more light to make the prophecy less confusing and more comprehensible.

Never mind, since it's still early to ''explain why John the Baptist never applied Mal. 4:5 to himself when pressed, BUT in fact INSTEAD took refuge in the prophecy of Isa. 40:3'' I'll just say: Watch this space.

That information, no doubt, will be given later, as the thread progresses.

... The underlying conviction of John’s entire mission was, that a baptism of repentance was necessary for Israel's salvation in the imminent Last Judgement..
- Sarassin
before I do justice as earlier above promised, I need to give you some questions and hope to get honest answers back

1) Do you remember the above Sarassin quote? (i.e. it's one of yours, it's an excerpt taken from your fouth post)
2) Hold on to that quote of yours to answer this question:
Elijah accomplished a lot in his career but what do you know or think was the high point of his ministry? (i.e. the most successful point of his career)
Hint: It was a point, where God after, couldnt resist not commenting on it and opted for deferment
3) What does reborn mean? What is reborn. What are you making us to believe reborn is?
In fact, define reborn in your own words and in accordance with your own understanding
4) Is reborn ever affiliated or included in the prophecy in Malachi 4:5?

Please do the honour of answering the above four, so we can wrap this thing up

sonofthunder:
do all Christians with the gift of faith operate same level of faith as Smith wiggleswort?

https://i57.tinypic.com/34sp9j4.gif
Smith Wigglesworth? SMH.
Bro don't even go there
Did you, with using ''^'' to reserve space, a couple of pages back, come here only to type this with Smith Wigglesworth fused in?

JMG1:
Thank you brother for your kind response and enlightment with the time you spent in putting all this together, I really appreciate it all and I can tell you that I have learnt few things

Am actually at work at present so might not be able to answer your added questions soon

But I will like to point of some few things here. You said I neither pray nor speak in tongues which I will like to clarify with some scriptures,

the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. John 14:17

This to confirm that I know the Spirit of God is in me because he dwells in me so when I speak in tongues, I know am not speaking from my own delusional mind but from the spirit

Now, brothers and sisters, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction?
1cor 14:6

This in reference to one of your questions which I gave answer to

13 For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 1cor 14:13-14

Why does paul ask that we should pray to interpret? The answer is in verse 14

When one is being baptised and speak in tongues, the spirit prays and not the mind or the soul because it does not understand. This interpretation comes from the same stream the tongues is coming from but the flesh is canal and can't reciprocate until one subdue the flesh/mind by feeding the spirit with the Word of God and walking in righteousness.

(Now, if the Soul picks up an unknown tongue or language from the Body, it cant interpret, then the deposit into the Spirit will be unfruitful)
what is this bro?

To speak or interpret in tongues is a gift of the spirit and not the soul, the spirit when speaking in tongues knows what he's saying but the understand in the soul is unfruitful and that is why paul asked us to pray.
The percentage of those who don't interpret their tongues on here and beyond are more than those who do. But you know your spirit is praying because the Spirit of Truth dwells in you.

You are trying to use physical to explain spiritual, too much of theological basics can't help much bro. I might not have been able to answer your questions as you want it, infact I might have missed so many but I am growing gradually in the Word. Paul asked us to desire sincere milk so we could grow and that is what we should do. I did not attend any theological school "well not yet" but that doesn't mean I am a novice to the Word of God.

Don't forget when we are born again, our spirit is but the souls desires is still based on the world. This time bro, after salavation, the Spirit takes over, the spirit deposit into the soul so the soul and spirit and flow together. The more you feed yourself with the Word of God, spirit gains power and subdue the flesh thereby making it obey the spirit. The process is when the things one usually enjoy doing before salvation started looking strange to you as the spirit starts making the soul desire Godly things

By the grace of God, I was able to interpret/prophesy my tongues to a few group of people when I concentrated more on tongues from my spirit and I have also received revelations from God from tongues as well. Yes most times my understanding is unfruitful but I admit that am growing and am also praying to be able to interpret as am suppose to.

I am reading a book by kenneth hagin "growing spiritually" and I advice you get it. He said 20years after preaching, he started asking for more knowledge in the word of God with eph 1:17-19 and some other scriptures and after 30days he started getting revelations and realise he has been preaching nonsense all the while, bro he question he's own preaching.

Brother please there are lots of people on this trend who wish and desire to be baptised in the Holy Ghost and can speak in tongues, by what you are saying, you might discourage some.

I know Who lives in me and I know Who gave me utterances to speak or pray so I won't mind you but please let's encourage and help those who desire to.

Saying I don't speak or pray in tongues is just you trying to bring your theological teaching on here. There are some things above from what you said I don't agree with but I'll let it skip.

We should all desire to grow, growing physically gradually is same as growing spiritually and its both a gradual process and I as a person I choose to grow gradually discerning the word of God and to be filled with the knowledge of his will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding

I'll stop here for now till later but will advice someone on here who wishes to be baptised in the Holy Ghost and wishes to speak in tongues.

Keep the fire of God in you burning, try as much as possible to grow in the Word of God but most especially HUNGER for righteousness and you will have this gift. Don't beat yourself over if you don't interpret them, desire to grow, take it step by step and all other gifts will be added through the Holy Spirit.

Shalom.....

Bro I haven't even started yet. I couldn't because we didn't get to start because questions I posed and about to pose to you were left inadequately answered if all any attempts were made to answer them.
It is until after you've answered the question(s) that sequential ones will be asked you.
Everything I asked you about is Bible based and will be bible backed, which is why I need honest or "I don't know" answers. When I counter give the answers then do a Berean with it

Are you familiar with and understand 1 Corinthians 14:27–28?
What you make of 1 Corinthians 14:27-28?
Do you at all adhere to the instruction in 1 Corinthians 14:27-28?
Where in the Bible have you read about praying in tongues, please I need the text?

What is the most important part of Man and why?
Do you think the "thesis" on Soul etcetera was dropped in out of idleness or showing off?

I asked you what was the primary or original reason for the gift of speaking in tongues, you gave me a lame answer.

I'll soon or might give you an offer too good to refuse concerning this matter.

Normally I don't get involved but notice the reasons I gave earlier in beginning of my post.

If only you had unbiasedly read through the post, some progress would have been done

Shalom

dazzle101:
Welcome brethren.

Kindly, Sir CharlyG1, Analice107, oyeludef, superior1, nnamdiosu, Goodmuyis, son of thunder.... Please everyone, a brethren needs some counselling!

Vooks...

... it is well. Ask or get vooks to PM me

JMG1:
1 Timothy 2:3-4
This is good, and pleases God our Saviour,who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

Philippians 1:9
And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight

The scriptures above me shows how God wants us to have and increase in the knowledge in the truth of the word and I as a person always finds a way of knowing the mysteries behind the word of God which brings forth light so I will do well in replying you the best way I can. I am open to any correction and more enlightment

Thank you for the above verses, and your kind and courteous words

JMG1:
1) Do you know that ''speaking in tongues'' or ''speak with other tongues'' as in the Bible IS NOT THE SAME AS what is widespread and generally accepted today to be?

Your Q1 response:
No and Yes.
No because the Spirit they receive in the book of Acts who gave them utterances is still the same Spirit we receive when we believe
and Yes because a lot of those who claim to speak in tongues speaks gillberish, as they only fake it and some utterances as well are been given by demons as satan has he's own counterfeit of other tongues

Excellent response

JMG1:
2) Do you know why it was necessary that speaking with other tongues should occur when it occurred X amount times in the Bible?

Your Q2 response:
1 Cor 14:22
Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not:

Good answer
but not quite the excellent and right response, so hold the ball and dont drop it now when attempting to respond to these following questions:

Q2b How many recorded times in the Bible were other tongues spoke?
Q2c On each of those ocassions, who are the ''them that believe not''?
Q2d What did they not believe? (i.e. what were they having difficulties believing in or with etcetera)

JMG1:
3) Do you know what was the primary objective or goal for the time(s) that speaking with other tongues occurred in the Bible?

Your Q3 response:
more light on this

If you respond to Q2b Q2c and Q2d adequately enough, you should without any more light be able respond Q3

JMG1:
4) Do you know when speaking with other tongues occurred in the Bible who it was aimed at or meant for?

Your Q4 response:
I really do not get this question.
What I understand is that to speak in tongues is a gift of the spirit, its the language of the spirit and its used to edify oneself and for prophesy if interpreted in the church

Well, yeah, minus the ''the language of the spirit'' bit, you're in a roundabout kind of way right, as ability to speak in tongues is a gift of the Spirit

Q4b OK, before the ''used to edify oneself '' bit, on the X times it was recorded happening in the Bible, who was ''speaking in other tongues'' aimed at or meant for and why?

JMG1:
5a) Do you know, who or how many, on the day of Pentecost, spoke with other tongues? (i.e. give the number if not names or identities)

Your Q5a response:
among all the 120, the disciples were the only one who spoke in tongues

Acts 2:7
Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans?

The multitude who hear them speaking in tongues refer them as Galileans
What they heard was tongues and interpretation, what they understood was the interpretation
Pentecost is a feast of Jews, they heard the galileans speaking in their tongue (they heard men of Galilee interpreting in Jewish language)

This in reference to acts 1:11, the two men who stood by them in white apparel after Jesus ascended, refer them to galileans

Acts 1:11
“Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky?
This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

Awesome and direct hit. Excellent

JMG1:
5b)What to your understanding does ''speak with other tongues'' means?

Your Q5b response:
speaking in tongues as I know is a spiritual gift, the language of the spirit and Paul points it out in
1 Cor 14:2
For anyone who speaks in a tongue[a] does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.

No, no, no, no, no.

Q5c What is ''the language of the spirit''? Who speaks ''the language of the spirit''? Give examples of biblically recorded spoken ''the language of the spirit''
Q5d If ''speak with other tongues'' means the language of the spirit, then from your response in Q5a above, are you implying the disciples who spoke in tongues used the language of the spirit?

Q5e If you are in a gathering of 10 Igbo speaking only believers who dont understand Hausa
but stand up to speak in Hausa language, please tell me who would you be speaking to?
Is it to the 10 Igbo speaking only believers or to God you are speaking to?

JMG1:
6) What is ''speaks in a tongue'' in 1 Corinthians 14:13 above all about?

Your Q6 response:
its about prophesying. Let him who speaks in tongues pray that he may interpret "to be able to edify the church"

Interpretation of the tongues been spoken in the church is a prophesy

No, no, no, no, no.
It is not exclusively about prophesying.
''speaks in a tongue'' is primarily about communcating, of which prophesying, is one of the many offshoots

JMG1:
7) According to GoodMuyis, three years after her conversion, his late Aunt was firing praying tongue, now with best efforts, give a demonstration, explanation and example of ''if I pray in a tongue'' as in 1 Corinthians 14:14a above

Your Q7 response:
Paul already point it out that when you speak in tongues, you speak mysteries. The spirit prays but understanding is unfruitful

Romans 8:26-27
26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.
27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.

Why does the spirit groans? Why does the spirit needs to intercedes?
Its because we do not pray right, e.g, praying that your enemy should die, pray God to give you a car, etc. He wants his children to live an abundance life but what if its not yet time?

The spirit groans because our spirit is created the image of God and in His likeness, the spirit knows what we should pray for,
He knows the will of God concerning our life so what then should we do?

Why do you think Paul boasted that he prays in tongues more than anyone in 1 Cor 14:18, he understands that the spirit always pray concerning the will of God.

When I needed to pray concerning something I don't know how to put it, all I do is to ask the Holy Spirit to help.

This is how I say it "Spirit of the Living God in me, help my spirit to pray concerning this (then I say what I needed to pray about)" immediately I finish, He takes over and I start praying in tongues.

Even though my understand is still fruitful as am still growing and praying to freely and fully understands, I trust my spirit so I pray in tongues and when the Holy Spirit is done, I know it then I give thanks and that's it.

That was not a boast brother. Never pluck out a Bible text, to read it in isolation. Context is king bro.
What Paul said in 1 Corinthians 14:14, was, ''if I pray in a tongue'' and that means ''on the assumption or in the event that I pray in a tongue''. (i.e. ''if I pray in a tongue'' & ''I pray in tongues'' are two different things)
and later in 1 Corinthians 14:17 he further said: ''I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all...''

C'mon now, give us a break. HE DID NOT SAY: ''I pray in tongues''.

If you had answered Q2b Q2c Q2d and Q3 you would have easily connected the dots and come to understand how Paul managed to ''speak in tongues more than you all;…''

Moving on, 1 Corinthians 14:14-16 can be understood with this illustration and the bottom fifth paragraph below after the illustration

Illustration for 1 Corinthians 14:14-15 is, if an Igbo speaking only believer, who doesnt understand Hausa, starts to prays in a tongue, like praying in the unknown Hausa tongue or language as it were
Then the Body is praying and the Spirit too is praying for same good thing the Body is praying
However the mind or intellect (i.e. Soul) in the middle, doesnt understand the language or tongue the mouth (i.e. Body) is praying in, so the Soul cant transfer an outcome to the Spirit
The Soul in effect is rendered unfruitful
So what is the resolution then?
I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind (i.e. Soul) also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind (i.e. Soul) also
Let the Spirit have the request it needs or asks for, let the Soul be able successfully have from the Body what the Spirit
In the case of the Igbo speaking only believer, sweet success or fruitfulness will happen in the Soul,
only when the Igbo speaking only believer, prays in the language or tongue the mind (i.e. Soul) can interpret and process (i.e. Igbo language or tongue), for deposit into the Spirit

And lastly, as for 1 Corinthians 14:16, another illustration is if an Igbo speaking only believer starts praying in Igbo tongue or language in a Hausa only speaking gathering, how will they know when to say Amen or ''so be it'' in agreement to a prayer done in an Igbo language unknown to them

Also brother, it is the sense of duty and the purpose found in Colossian 3:9 which tells us not to lie to each other
and also the instructive in Ephesian 4:15 which tells us to speak the truth in love, that I with the utmost due respect, say, YOU DO NOT SPEAK IN TONGUES TALKLESS CLAIM TO PRAY IN TONGUES.
Wake up brother and smell the coffee!

Trust me, what happened in the upper room, still happens today
Speaking in another tongue or another language is a gift of the Spirit
Though fading, it still happens today, but they are few and far in between
Yes, they are not very many or arent happening very frequently, even we have the few occasional medically recorded FLS speaking fluently in another tongue
so finally on this matter, without malice or being unkind, you are under a delusion and have allowed yourself to be lied to, if you think you speak in tongues or pray in tongues
Do you know some have been known to ''pray in tongues on paper'' too? (i.e. show ''praying in tongues'' as clear texts'')

https://s28.postimg.org/iitnnugr1/Man.jpg
Though you've done a brilliant work in your Q7 response, permit me in giving some more clarity and understanding on the matter.
The above graphic is provided, as it is related to the explanation I'll be sharing about the Body Soul & Spirit that makes up Man

He went on to say,
"Pay attention to what you're listening to!
[Knowledge] will be measured out to you by the measure [of attention] you give.
This is the way knowledge increases
- Mark 4:24

What is man?
Man is a spirit being, residing or housed in a Body and possessing a Soul
Man is made up of Body, Soul (i.e. uses the heart as an outlet) and Spirit.
The Soul has the body and spirit on each opposite sides of it

Mind you, the Soul is the most important existence of Man
and that is why the battle is and always has been about or over the Soul
All attack is ultimately targeted at the Soul

The Body has 5 faculties of senses
(i.e. which are, to see via the eyes, hear via the ears, feel via applicable part of the body, smell via the nose and taste via the mouth)
The faculties of the Soul comprises of the Mind (i.e. conscious and sub conscious) or Intellect, Will or Freewill, and Emotions
The faculties of the Spirit comprises of Fellowship, Conscience, Discernment or Intuition

Now, the Soul is the first medium key component of Man created by God
and Man is tickled and accessed through this Soul by way of the body and spirit
The Soul, in effective, is the mediator between the body and spirit

The different faculties in the Soul waits, to pick up signals coming from the relevant and/or applicable faculties in the Body and the Spirit
This bit is very important, the Soul receives from the Body and deposits into the Spirit
Whatever the Body reads or sees via the eyes, hears via the ears, feels via applicable part of the body, smells via the nose and talks or tastes via the mouth is picked up by the Soul and deposited into the Spirit
The Spirit upon receiving things from the Soul, has to deal or process what the Soul has deposited into its laps

This is why regulation is very important. It is why we ought to control and oversee what the Soul is picking up from or picking up with the senses
If you have to eat the chicken or fish, this is why its necessary to know when and how to spit out the bones
or if it's grain to eat, then know when and how to spit out the straws
alternatively, if it's liquor to drink, and you cant hold it down so you don't throw it up, then know how or when to stay away from the liquor

Now, if the Soul picks up an unknown tongue or language from the Body, it cant interpret, then the deposit into the Spirit will be unfruitful
The Spirit knows what it expects from the Soul for fruition to be possible but the Soul received from the Body a tongue or language it doesnt via the Mind or Intellect understand
Now just as in physical when the stomach growls, making noises for food, when nourishing is long overdue,
so it is spiritually, the Spirit intercedes for us through wordless and noiseless groans for substances necessary for growth, health and good condition

The Soul determines what the Spirit receives, but if like you said earlier alluded, the Soul is transferring the wrong expectations (e.g. not praying right, not asking right etctera)
then the Spirit does the wordless groans (i.e. the spirit knows what should be prayed for, so it becomes restless with wordless groans, when the expectation(s) is not forthcoming or not in sight)
The Spirit is like saying: Hey Mr Soul, where are the goods am expecting, please dont feed me with trash
and so since the Spirit tells the Soul what it needs, the Soul has to back to the Body for the request
Now, if it is one of those classic cases of the Spirit is willing BUT the Body is weak, then the Body many times will REFUSE the Soul the request of the Spirit
and here we have a typical case of struggle or power tussle going on in the Soul involving the Body and the Spirit
The Spirit knows what it needs the Soul giving it from the Body (i.e. the Spirit tells the Soul what to do, expecting the Soul to relay this information request to the Body)
but the Body, many times, is not ready or prepared to act in accordance with the wish or command of the Spirit by giving or offering it to the Soul for the Spirit

The Spirit cannot give to the Body righteous things it didnt receives from the Soul
OK, here is the clarification to ward off confusion: The Soul passes on all righteous things it receives from the Body,
if fruitful and meaningful when the Spirit receives it, the Spirit will then conceive the ''fruit'' and return it back to the Body via the Soul
The Soul feeds the Spirit and the Soul receives from the Spirit to feed the Body
that is why if your mind (i.e. Soul) doesnt understand something OR anything, it would be unable to interpret to successfully feed the Spirit or the Body

Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health,
even as thy soul prospereth
- 3 John 1:2

As seen in 3 John 1:2 above, the Soul (i.e. the Mind (i.e. conscious and sub conscious) or Intellect, Will or Freewill, and Emotions) tops it all

JMG1:
8 ) Why is it necessary that when my spirit prays my mind needs to be fruitful? (i.e. in relation to 1 Corinthians 14:14b)

Your Q8 response:
for revelation, for knowledge, for prophesying and for teaching

This is a feeble response, since reading the above you'll probally revise it

JMG1:
9) Also give a demonstration, explanation and example of praying in the spirit as in 1 Corinthians 14:15 above

Your Q9 response:
Don't forget that interpretation of tongues is also a gift, the same stream where the tongues comes from is the same stream the interpretation comes from.
Its just like English, you speak and write and can sing because u understand english language. If one is been given a book written in French and u don't speak nor understands it, you can try pronounce the words rightly but understanding is unfruitful but if you both understand and can speak, then you teach others who don't speak, write in french and translate, sing in French and translate, reveal things in French and translate to others who don't speak french.
All profits from the gifts

Can you see now why I requested that you give a demonstration, explanation and example of praying in the spirit as in 1 Corinthians 14:15

You truthfully dont undestand an iota of anything you say when you ''speak in tongue'' or ''pray in tongues''. Be honest, shame the devil and the devil be a liar

That means your mind (i.e. Soul) is unfruitful when you ''speak in tongue'' or ''pray in tongues''
and if we give you the benefit of doubt, that you are speaking in a meaningful, proper and intelligble language albeit unknown to you, the why are you ignoring 1 Corinthians 14:27–28?

JMG1:
10) What do you think of 1 Corinthians 14:27–28 above, does the church you mentioned also practise backing up ''speak in a tongue'' with scriptures like these?

Your Q10 response:
note that he said let him speak to himself and to God if no interpretation. Paul did not forbid speaking it tongues from that context, it should only be used for edify oneself by praying but if there comes a revelation from God, let him speaks to the church and interpret for the edification of the church

Again bringing back part of the above given illustration:
If there is no interpreter of the Igbo language or tongue then the Igbo speaking only believer, should speak to himself and to God alone.
He shouldnt speak to the Hausa only speaking gathering, in Igbo language or tongue which the Hausa gathering dont understand
What is the point if he does, as they arent going to be built up with something they havent a clue what was said

JMG1:
10b) "does the church you mentioned also practise backing up ''speak in a tongue'' with scriptures like these?"

Your response:
The church don't teach in tongues but they pray majorly in tongues

The church don't teach in tongues but they pray majorly in tongues? SMH.
I trust you spot the oxymoron and inconsistency in this your response

My guy, we have only scratched the surface of this matter you raised because of too many fundamentals and basics amiss, too many gaping holes in the theology
so food for thought: (an advice some saints will choke on no doubt) Clean up your act bro, and prevent truth decay, by brushing up your Bible
The Bible is a book of division, people are still coveting things which don't belong to them, so please study to shew thyself approved unto God rightly dividing the word of truth

Sarassin:
Josephus does not deny the Messiahship of Jesus, in fact if you read the Testimonium Flavium you will find it is quite the opposite

I am sure you know that is an interpolation

Sarassin:
Surely, if Josephus was "pro John the Baptist" then that was a good thing ...no?

I am sure you know what I meant by this
Josephus, like The Mandeans and most Jews were and are "pro John the Baptist" but dont believe in Jesus as they reject Him to be the Messiah

Sarassin:
My point exactly. Virtually all the gospel authors wrote fanciful accounts of events decades after Jesus had passed, but none of them were historians

¹Many have attempted to write about what had taken place among us.
²They received their information from those who had been eyewitnesses and servants of God's word from the beginning, and they passed it on to us.
³I, too, have followed everything closely from the beginning. So I thought it would be a good idea to write an orderly account for Your Excellency, Theophilus.
⁴In this way you will know that what you've been told is true
- Luke 1:1-3

''By no stretch of the imagination is the gospel author of Luke an eyewitness to the accounts he wrote nor is he an historian.''
- Sarassin

Please you never had any exact point dear old friend.
Notice from above, how Luke, in Luke 1:1-3, though a medical doctor, took upon himself to be regarded as a historian

Sarassin:
Even if you discount the contentious dates given by Josephus, it still does not deal with pertinent issues, for instance;

"John the Baptist is unlikely to have uttered those words.
Those words are incompatible with the Baptist’s earlier denials that he was Elias reborn (Jn1.21)
The reasoning here is quite simple. John the Baptist was well versed in the scriptures. If he denies that he is Elias reborn, why would he then admit to being the “herald “ or “forerunner of the Messiah” knowing full well that only Elias reborn could make such a claim"?

Bro you're about embarrassing me, so please get a grip.
What did you expect John the Baptist to say?
Of course, John the Baptist wasnt Elijah reborn now (i.e. John the Baptist wasnt Elijah physically reborn)

John the Baptist, was right in denying he was Elijah reborn and was right again in admitting being the ''herald'' or ''forerunner of the Messiah''

⁵Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
⁶And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. {THE END OF THE PROPHETS.}
- Malachi 4:5-6

⁵In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah; his wife Elizabeth was also a descendant of Aaron.
⁶Both of them were righteous in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commands and decrees blamelessly.
⁷But they were childless because Elizabeth was not able to conceive, and they were both very old.
⁸Once when Zechariah’s division was on duty and he was serving as priest before God,
⁹he was chosen by lot, according to the custom of the priesthood, to go into the temple of the Lord and burn incense.
¹⁰And when the time for the burning of incense came, all the assembled worshipers were praying outside.
¹¹Then an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing at the right side of the altar of incense.
¹²When Zechariah saw him, he was startled and was gripped with fear.
¹³But the angel said to him: “Do not be afraid, Zechariah; your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you are to call him John.
¹⁴He will be a joy and delight to you, and many will rejoice because of his birth,
¹⁵for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even before he is born.
¹⁶He will bring back many of the people of Israel to the Lord their God.
¹⁷And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the parents to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”
¹⁸Zechariah asked the angel, “How can I be sure of this? I am an old man and my wife is well along in years.”
¹⁹The angel said to him, “I am Gabriel. I stand in the presence of God, and I have been sent to speak to you and to tell you this good news. ²⁰And now you will be silent and not able to speak until the day this happens, because you did not believe my words, which will come true at their appointed time.”
- Luke 1:5-19

John the Baptist was well versed in the scriptures, equally knew what Malachi 4:5 really meant, as this was explained to Zechariah, his father, in Luke 1:17, by an angel
The reality check is that, John the Baptist, is not Elijah physically reborn but is another person with the spirit and power similar to that of Elijah
(i.e. John the Baptist is a different person with the character, qualities, power of speech etcetera of Elijah)
If John the Baptist doesnt have any facial or physical likeness of Elijah, why would he claim to be Elijah reborn?
If John the Baptist was Elijah, why didnt the disciples at the Transfiguration incident and appearance, recognise him as John the Baptist but instead recognised whom they saw, as Elijah, they thereafter called him thus and not call him John the Baptist?

The Transfiguration
²There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light.
³Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.
⁴Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.”
⁵While he was still speaking, a bright cloud covered them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!”
⁶When the disciples heard this, they fell facedown to the ground, terrified.
⁷But Jesus came and touched them. “Get up,” he said. “Don’t be afraid.”
⁸When they looked up, they saw no one except Jesus.
⁹As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, “Don’t tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead.”
¹⁰The disciples asked him, “Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?”
¹¹Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things.
¹²But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.”
¹³Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist
- Matthew 17:2-13

Jesus testifies about John
¹³"For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John.
¹⁴"And if you are willing to accept it, John himself is Elijah who was to come.
¹⁵"He who has ears to hear, let him hear
- Matthew 11:13-15