₦airaland Forum

superior1:
Refilling, filling, expanding filling.....

''refilling, filling, expanding filling'' as earlier mentioned refers to filling to one's capacity. One is continually filled as one remains connected and plugged in to the Mains

Acts 13:52
And the disciples were continually filled with joy and with the Holy Spirit.

superior1:
whatever lexical semantics you like to play.... .

Dont know what you on about with this your sort of crab mentality ''whatever lexical semantics you like to play''

superior1:
I know this as a matter of truth and experience, whenever you minister under the anointing, you need to fall back to get recharge both physically and spiritually.

Do TELEVISIONS, RADIOS or electric irons plugged in and connected to a Mains Power Source need recharging?

Believers ought not to disconnect from the Mains Power Supply,
they are in use at full bar 100% charged and stay or remain so as they PERMANENTLY connected to Mains even when is use.

The key note, most are overlooking, is if you arent disconnected from the Mains, why would you deplete and the need recharging?

vooks:
I got banned yesterday by the spambot.

I think we are saying close to the same thing.
If you note, I was clear that the refilling is not a repeat of the previous experience but it is entirely new. So far be it from you to insinuate replenishing. That's the problem with analogies. They are never exact. The disciples filling of the Holy Spirit the second time manifested in boldness. The first time it was tongues. Do you honestly think that on Pentecost the disciples LACKED capacity for receiving boldness, and they only stumbled into this sometimes in Acts 8 at which point they lifted up their voices to heavens,and God filled them with boldness? Exactly what is 'space for boldness'? Fear?

A more sensible way of looking at it is that before the threatenings, there was no need for boldness. Once they were intimidated, they were cowered, and they ran to God seeking, not a way out as many are wont to but a way through; boldness. Boldness is a new dimension of filling with Holy Ghost they had yet to experience.

The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak is about man's spirit vs his flesh, and not Holy Spirit vs man's flesh.

That theory of yours of 'making space' makes man the lord over the Spirit of God. There is nothing in scriptures remotely suggesting that some are more filled than others nor some have more capacity or space to receive Holy Spirit than others. Maybe you can regale us what capacity you have created lately, what filled it, and the effects of filling this freshly minted space/capacity.

Be that as it may, I will not pursue this debate beyond this post for the sake of unity of the participants of the thread. If you wish, start a new thread and invite me. Thanks

Naija says ''ti a ba bu ounje sinu epo epa, eni ma yo, a yo''
loosely means
''when food is served in groundnut pods, diners who will eat, enjoy the meal and be full will be''

MizyB:
this would be in context with John 15:1-8?

Thank you for this well spotted and relevant passage

JMG1:
From my own little understand, I think what MuttleyLaff is trying to explain is that Filling of the Holy Spirit does not end at the baptism of the Holy Spirit and also does not need recharging as you don't loose the power and the gifts in you. Its a continous filling. The Apostles didn't start performing miracles, signs, and wonders on the day of Penticost, the bible only says they were filled and spoke in new tongues. Summary of all he said was that the more you go deeper attending and growing yourself in the things of the spirit, the more your create room for MORE filling and with that, the Holy Spirit releases more of HIS Power, gifts and annointing.
So one don't recharge" recharge means to restore something" as if loosing the Holy Spirit coz the Spirit of the Lord is always there .

Correct me if am mistaken. Thanks

Exactly 110% thanks
We ought to remain plugged in, connected to the Mains and switched ON for the continous infilling or inflowing of the Holy Spirit current
We remain plugged in even at 100% full bar charge display

temi4fash:
Bro,

In summary, if I get you right you are saying once you are filled with the holy ghost, you don't need to recharge again.

Yes, that is what I inferred
and why it was asked whether people recharge electric irons?
One is infilled to ones capacity, but remember we grow everyday
The spirit man grows everyday, and since you are contan tly plugged into the Power Source
The rate of the infilling of the Holy Spirit is proportional to the spirit man's capacity
We all get the power of the Holy Spirit via infilling
but one will not get more power of the Holy Spirit than one is capable of handling or containing

vooks:
Great! We know some Greek
But please answer my question.

To help you up,
They were FILLED on Pentecost, and not too long after that they were FILLED again in another singular event following prayers.
I called this 'recharge' or refilling or a second filling. You disputed this. What else would you call a filling following another filling other than a REfilling?

I will repeat myself with a crucial point you seem to be overlooking where plḗthō meaning "full'' and implies "filled to one's (i.e. individual) capacity corroborates the below repeated paragraph I earlier mentioned in previous posts

Believers are on 24/7 charging, they ought to never unplug but remain connected ever charging
and receiving from the Mains, as much flowing current they are able and capable to receive.
The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak
The Holy Spirit is willing, to give as much as one can handle
but it is either faith or the flesh, at times which when weak that holds one back.

Full is not constant, as you grow so does your fullness grows. This is why, one is constantly plugged in to the Mains Holy Spirit
You see, the difference between an inflating or infilling balloon and a believer, is that a ballon bursts with air once it gets pass its fullness threshold, however the infilling Holy Spirit will continue to infill into a believer to the extent the believer gives it room to fill into.

When you say recharging, it's like you saying the juice is used up so requires topping up or recharging.

I have heard and read about little faith, weak faith etcetera but nothing like that about the Holy Spirit. One either has the Holy Spirit or one doesn't have it all. Worst case scenario, one has the residual Holy Spirit after it is quenched and there isn't anymore flow of the Holy Spirit current because the plug is pulled

It is the same current flowing, there is no second current flow. I have never heard, read or being taught about second current flows into electronic or electrical components. Electric flow is electric flow, there are no distinctions, so it is with the infilling of the Holy Spirit to the apostles after Pentecost
They just made room or more space for the infilling to fill into

Do people recharge electric irons?
When current electric flows into an electric iron, is it possible to discover other iron features/functionalities not previously used?

vooks:
[size=1pt][/size]Thank you MutleyLaff
This is quite a lengthy post. I wonder how long you took to get it together. God bles you for your diligence.
Could you briefly explain what transpired here;
Acts 4:31 (KJV)
And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

PS:
'They' here refers to Peter and John- v19, and 'their company' or fellow disciples-v23 who all partook in Pentecost sometimes before this.

Thanks

I will first reproduced this excerpt from my earlier post which addressed your request

Believers are on 24/7 charging, they ought to never unplug but remain connected ever charging
and receiving from the Mains, as much flowing current they are able and capable to receive.
The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak
The Holy Spirit is willing, to give as much as one can handle
but it is either faith or the flesh, at times which when weak that holds one back
Believers are to fill in the Holy Spirit oversize shoes and suit with the current ever flowing from the Mains they are plugged and connected to

Now back to the matter

Strong's Concordance: furnish, accomplish, fill, supply
Original Word: πλήθω
Part of Speech: Verb
Phonetic Spelling: (play'-tho)
Short Definition: I fill
Definition: I fill, fulfill, complete.

HELPS Word-studies:-
4130 plḗthō (or pimplēmi) – properly, fill to the maximum (full extent), "the limit" (CBL).
4130 /plḗthō ("full'') implies "filled to one's (individual) capacity."

MizyB:
Mr vooks, thank you. So a believer who doesnt 'recharge' this infilling might end up quenching the spirit, right?
And Could this lead to total loss of the spirit in such believer?

vooks:
Hi MizyB, interesting question right there.
Quenching the Spirit is expressly forbidden in 1 Thess 5:19. Quenching means extinguish, put out.
This to me means obstructing or disparaging His work in men like spiritual gifts, or even conviction over sin.
Failure to recharge to me does not lead to this, it simply keeps you in the SAME level of faith and experience with God.
Recharging moves you higher.

When the disciples recharged, they did not receive additional spiritual gifts or manifestations; they were just emboldened to witness. They received boldness which was hitherto lacking in most. So I would say recharging also helps in confronting new challenges in our walk in Spirit.

What in my opinion causes 'loss of the Spirit' or bankruptcy of authentic Spirit experience in our lives is active resistance against His work, and also persistent rebellion/sin

With all due respects to both of you, IMHO, there is nothing like recharging there however is something akin to ''''staying plugged in'' to the Source''''
''Staying plugged in'' to the Source, allows the continue flowing of the current of the Holy Spirit from the Source to recipients for infilling

Believers dont recharge, but stay plugged in to the Source, even with full bar on charge displaying

Believers are on 24/7 charging, they ought to never unplug but remain connected ever charging
and receiving from the Mains, as much flowing current they are able and capable to receive.
The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak
The Holy Spirit is willing, to give as much as one can handle
but it is either faith or the flesh, at times which when weak that holds one back
Believers are to fill in the Holy Spirit oversize shoes and suit with the current ever flowing from the Mains they are plugged and connected to

''Quenching the spirit'' happens when the plug is pulled, is another of my IMHO
as pulling the plug prevents the Holy Spirit from happening or continuing flowing from Source to fill up recipients

There are certain things we do (e.g. Samson and King Saul to name just two), which pulls the plug and ultimately quenches the Spirit

¹¹Do not banish me from Your presence
or take Your Holy Spirit from me.
¹²Restore the joy of Your salvation to me,
and give me a willing spirit
- Psalm 51:11-12

There are at least two ingredients for keeping possession of Holy Spirit, they are:
1) God's presence - Remaining or staying in God's presence
2) Willing spirit - Having a willing spirit

The lack of 1 and 2 undermines the Holy Spirit and causes a total loss of it (i.e. quenches it)

The loss of the Holy Spirit, is clear or obvious to the trained eye, mind or observer
and the loss might manifest in two ways:
1) Instant total loss - total loss of Holy Spirit happening or coming immediately
2) Gradual loss - loss taking place slowly with a lingering residual Holy Spirit

Samson in Judges 16:20 and King Saul in 1 Samuel 16:14, are two examples of where, when the plug is pulled, the Spirit effectively is quenched and there is ''Total loss of the Holy Spirit''
Samson and King Saul, are also examples of the active resistance against God's work, and also persistent rebellion/sin getting the Spirit quenched vooks talked about

Gradual loss, where loss of the Holy Spirit can take place slowly with a lingering residual Holy Spirit, occurs in society today among believers, known as yesterday's man

We all know that one of the characteristics of a plugged in and switched on electric iron is heat (i.e. it gets hot or have high temperatures)
it also is known that, a just finished used iron, remains hot for a while even though it's being switched off and unplugged from the electic socket.

The Holy Spirit and believers, to a certain degree, are somewhat like the electric current flowing through the cable making a plugged in and switched on electric iron hot.
- The Holy Spirit is the electric current flowing through the cable and the believer is the electric iron

Now the reason for this lingering post, is merely to touch on that kind of believer tagged ''yesterday's man'' and the connection with Gradual loss
(i.e. loss taking place slowly with a lingering residual Holy Spirit)

The ''Yesterday's man'' believers, are like, a just used iron, switched off and unplugged from the electic socket but remaining hot due to residual heat
The Holy Spirit has been quenched and stopped flowing into the ''yesterday's man'' believer
but the ''yesterday's man'' believer, to some degrees, even after the switch off and unplugging from the Source,
remains still ''hot'' due to the lingering residual ''heat'' Holy Spirit

Most ''yesterday's man'' believer, dont know the Holy Spirit has been quenched because they are still showing the characteristics of the Holy Spirit, as in that lingering residual ''heat'' Holy Spirit

When the lingering residual ''heat'' Holy Spirit is finally and totally lost, then some of the ''yesterday's man'' believers turn to making unholy alliances with dark forces and/or undesirable spiritual entities to save face

The gullible and easily influenced who dont know about the ''yesterday's man'' believer's total loss of the Holy Spirit and the fake one replacing the original are easily deceived by it

MizyB:
Oga MuttleyLaff, its so nice to have you here.
Thank you for the reprove on my conception about the infillng of the spirit. God bless you sir

From one Oga to another Oga. I hail you too ma.
By the grace of Abba, as iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens the wits of another

SmileXtraone:
The minister of Communications Lai Mohammed spoke with aljazerah in Doha. He stated that Nigeria is on top of the security problem in the country. But with the recent killings and violence in Rivers state i disagree. A lot of civilians and members of the military have lost their lives recently in that state and it leaves me wondering what it is with rivers state? are the people so violent? or the thugs are imported?
Why are people allowing themselves to be used to disrupt peace?
What should the military do? or is rivers beyond the military?

h ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u3VF7RVsd8

SMH. This man just fall from my hand with him suffering from a subconscious colonial mentality when he slipped into using SIR for the interviewer at the end

INTERVIEWER: Alright Minister, we'll have to leave it there. We appreciate your time. Thank you very much indeed
Lai MOHAMMED: Thank you very much SIR

MizyB:
hello Mr vooks why ask for the Holy spirit? Going by the account of Eph1:13 i kinda think its an automatic thing; open your heart to believe on the Lord Jesus, and you have the Holy spirit instantly in you.

MizyB, vooks is no spring chicken and knows this already

By the way, the automatic thing you referred to, as in Ezekiel 36:27, 1 Corinthians 3:16, Corinthians 6:19 and 2 Timothy 1:14, is what is called, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, it is automatic upon conversion or believing like you said

The infilling of the Holy Spirit, however, as in 1 Corinthians 6:19, John 16:13 and John 14:16 -17 & 26, is continuous continual flowing or pouring for us to fill in or fill out to receive as much as we are able to

Note the spirit was already in the disciples but Jesus still promised this infilling spirit

I just love 1 John 2:27, because the genuine anointing teaching mentioned in it, is the Spirit of Truth talked about in John 14:17

And as for you, the anointing you received from Him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you.
But just as His true and genuine anointing teaches you about all things, so remain in Him as you have been taught.
- 1 John 2:27

Greenback:
same with me...how can we develop this gift?

What gave you the impression it is a gift?
Or it is a gift, good enough and worthy of developing?

Note that, visions or dreams, depending the source, are gifts or instruments equally used as a divine communication by God and evil or familiar spirits

Visitation by vision, occurs via having powerful feelings or seeing strong clear images in the mind, note not in a dream, of an apparition or spirit.
(e.g. the woman in 1 Samuel 28:11-12, that has a familiar spirit at Endor)

Visitations also occurs in dreams, when one sees powerful or strong clear images an apparition or spirit during sleep in the dream
(e.g. an angel of the Lord, in Matthew 1:20, Matthew 2:13 etcetera appearing to Joseph, Jesus' earthly father, in dreams)

There are two possible objectives of visitation:
to bless (i.e. to create and reassuringly maintain a state of extreme ease, power and sound mind)
or
to curse (i.e. to create and maintain a state of extreme fear, anxiety and distress)

There are at least two outcomes with any visitation:
to lead right, give good tidings (i.e. give good news, good instruction or good information) or give advance notice of something (i.e. give warnings)
or
to mislead, give nightmares, night terrors and bad tidings (i.e. give bad news, give bad instruction or wrong information)

If its same with you as with Umehmj's, where in all his déjà vu accounts, there arent in clear cut signs in his visitations of leading right, giving good tidings or good instructions, giving advance notice of something (e.g. like giving warnings) then before wanting to know how you can develop this ''gift'', why not have a pen and paper ALWAYS near you, so whenever you have visitations either in dream or vision you can quickly write the encounter and events down

This will allow you to see whether it is a gift masquerading as coming from God or not

We ought to test terrestrial and celectial spirits too,
just as in 1 John 4:1, where we are advised, to test the spirit-man (i.e the spirit behind the man)
because as soon as or when the spirit gains a proper foothold will mislead the easily deceived and/or lead many astray

Then the LORD said to me, "The prophets are prophesying falsehood in My name.
I have neither sent them nor commanded them nor spoken to them;
they are prophesying to you a false vision, divination, futility and the deception of their own minds
- Jeremiah 14:14

This is what the LORD Almighty says:
"Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you; they fill you with false hopes.
They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the LORD.
- Jeremiah 23:16

⁸"For thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel,
'Do not let your prophets who are in your midst and your diviners deceive you,
and do not listen to the dreams which they dream.
⁹'For they prophesy falsely to you in My name;
I have not sent them,' declares the LORD.…
- Jeremiah 29:8

eniigmar:
Please Brethren I need your help on something improtant.
I have been asked to speak on the topic 'THE FILLING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT' this coming Sunday in the Baptismal class
and our teacher told us that we can ask for help from people around us (especially elder ones).
I'll be so glad if y'all help me out on this.
Thanks.

Cc Analice107, Vooks, Oyeludef, CharlyG1, Superior1, Tjayjosh e.t.c

Ah, anyone remember that famous: ''You need the spirit of God in you before you can fully understand and interpret His word'' cliche

Well, most believers, already have the spirit of God in or on them (i.e. already have ''the Filling Of The Holy Spirit'')
but the thing is, most havent grown out to fill into and fill up the spirit of God they have in or on
Most need to ''beef up or bulk up'' to fill into the Spirit of God issued out

https://s15.postimg.org/y7dmr8ejv/Oversize_Suits.jpg
The spirit of God is like the shoes and clothes seen put on in the above picture
For some of us, the shoes and clothes are limp, hanging or swinging loosely on us because we havent GROWN to fill and snug fit into the ''shoes'' and ''suit''

Due to this not bulking up and when the ''shoes'' and ''suit'' arent tight or close-fitting, there would be issues with mobility
Progressing or moving from one truth or revelation to another, will be impeded by the hanging and loosely fitting ''shoes'' and ''suit'' spirit of God

We shouldnt be a sieve, shouldnt be a porous basket, shouldnt be a punctured nylon bag to receiving, like water, the Holy Spirit

Mind you, the indwelling (i.e. presence) of the Spirit happens at our conversion,
and the infilling of the Spirit (i.e. the pouring) happens continually,
hence the need for growth, to beef or bulk up, in order to fill up, so to tightly fit into the poured out Holy Spirit

Create in me a clean heart, O God;
and renew a right spirit within me.
- Psalm 51:10

madbuk:
couldn't access the video on youtube.

sahm4u2nv:
please can someone help me with links to download it, the youtube link up there is crap,
I'm unable to download it somebody helppppppppo

cooljude:
the video is no longer on youtube

ollypass:
hardly in all my Nairaland existence has every one agreed on a thing like i see here,this has increased my expectation to watch the video,
but i give this to falz...he was born to do this!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKgZ9b4SBI8
cc vosquare
Watch it at this link here or at Falz's YouTube Channel
Falz & Co got YouTube to block anyone else except him from sharing the video

Falz called himself Chief Lieutenant to Simi in the video, so why the warload com call him Sergeant on the phone call nau
''Sergeant, if you want the girl come and collect her''

MizMyColi:
Only if we become aware of a greater reality which lies within all, a new civilization would be born.

"Where's the proof of this Greater Reality?" you ask.

I offer only an analogy: A battery of scientists can get together and tell you about all the scientific proof for the fact that bananas are bitter. But all you have to do is taste one, once, to realize that there is this whole other aspect to bananas.

Ultimately, proof lies not in intellectual arguments, but in being touched in some way by the sacred within and without. ~ R.D

What do you expect from R.D?
DiCarlo and Tolle are bedfellows. Arent they?

What is in sokoto, you're looking elsewhere for it, in Sokoto.

Mind you, it is the sense of duty and the purpose found in Colossian 3:9 which tells us not to lie to each other
and also the instructive in Ephesian 4:15 which tells us to speak the truth in love which compels me to be commenting on most of your posts
So, for the record, it is ALWAYS in love that I react and write the truth(s) whenever I counter your submissions or remarks

MizMyColi:
Are you aware that feeling good carries a positive vibrational frequency which usually attracts the good which the universe has to offer?

When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye,
and also desirable for gaining wisdom (i.e. make good decisions), she took some and ate it.
- Genesis 3:6

Be careful of ''feeling good'' and be suspicious of feel
because its positive vibrational frequency, which usually attracts the ''good'' which the universe has to offer, 9 times out of 10 arent to or cant be trusted

MizMyColi:
Have you ever been at a point in your life where it felt like there was no way out, and it was all depressing, and then someone says uplifting words to you (which is also a form of prayer) and then you feel this strength and zeal to forge ahead, and then somehow, doors begin to open unto you?

The book, "The Secret" by Rhonda Byrne comes to mind

MizMyCol, in your humble opinion, who is your greatest teacher?
Who is God over you MizMyCol?

You come across has having a spiritual hunger, you are hungry for spirituality, but choose rather to be fed spiritually by the world,
and so move towards or be attracted to the likes of Rhonda Byrne, Tolle and who next

The thing about Rhonda Byrne's ''The Secret'' is that, it's self centric and devoid of God
also promotes a self-centered faith revolved around a genie rather than a God-centered faith

If you arent rooted and well grounded in the word of God, the likes of Rhonda Byrne's "The Secret", Tolle's ''The Power Of Now'' and whose next, will ''draw you aside'' same way the serpent drew Eve aside

Not everything that glitters is gold. The grass is only greener on the other side of the fence because of the soakaway underneath it

Do not love the world nor the things in the world.
If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
For all that is in the world,
the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life,
is not from the Father, but is from the world
- 1 John 2:15-16

Seun:
Prayer makes you feel good, knowing that someone wishes you well

Prayers of intercession, the action of saying a prayer on behalf of another is equally good too
but it is not necessarily always a right thing to do

The jury is out about what the young man prayed for or what the young man's prayer was about

Seun:
But that is not what homeless people need. Homeless people need homes.

In that part of the world, you may be able to get help from a local council if you are homeless or threatened with homelessness

He needed to know his rights on how to resolve the ''homelessness'' problem

However the guy lying motionless on the ground doesnt look like a vagrant or a homeless person to me
but looks more like someone laying there in a drunken stupor

MizMyColi:
How do I even begin to convince you guys now that the very action of that boy, which for all we know, might be his widow's mite has sparked a number of reactions both in the physical and spiritual that will get that man off the streets for good, and rehabilitated too?

⁵“And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites.
For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others.
Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.
⁶But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen.
Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you
- Matthew 6:5-6

Without trying to take away from the young man's, hopefully sincere intention and honest gesture, what he did is a good thing
but necessarily isn't a right thing to do

MizMyColi:
Y'see.
I'm a recipient of the power of prayer and MEDITATION.

Two good valuable tools,
however praying and meditating the right way matters though

MizMyColi:
I have lots of issues with the Christian God

Who is this ''Christian God''?
What is this ''Christian God's'' name?

MizMyColi:
But I believe that we have a source, from which/whom we all proceed

No, you’re not an atheist nor an agnostic
that there is the validation wink wink :-)

MizMyColi:
That boy's act was that of compassion

That compassion could how his level of faith and understanding is
It also could be a spur of the moment thing

MizMyColi:
Supposing I were in his shoes, Permit me to speak like an insensitive person for a bit.

"Do you know what it takes for a clean bae lik me to touch a street man who hasn't bathed for days and for all we know, has Ebola and the likes?"
Lol

It takes compassion and the divine to do so without flinching.

Within these few days, I've seen and perceived enough to know that the physical is not all that there is

When full of grace and power, great wonders and signs (i.e. gestures or actions) are done among people
The policeman apparently was watching
and wondered at what the young's man was kneeling down doing to the lying on the ground motionless destitute

MizMyColi:
I used to have the impression you're atheist, Seun.
This sure changes the perception

Don't make an impression on a book by its cover

Seun's derision is over the fact that sometimes its good to pray but it necessarily isnt the right thing to do
He feels that doing a good thing (e.g. like the young man's prayer of contact) isnt necessarily a right thing to do

MizMyColi:
It has been scientifically proven that thinking good or bad thoughts towards an issue or an individual has it's consequences

⁵“And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites.
For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others.
Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.
⁶But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen.
Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
- Matthew 6:5-6

Each to their own level of faith and importantly without aiming to deride, hopefully a young man's sincere gesture and/or honest intention
but in light of Matthew 6:5-6 above, you can see the bugbear or irritation,
see how and why Seun scorns what he perceived to be the young man getting a ''feel-good factor'' for himself

MizMyColi:
Prayer is a communication of our heartfelt thoughts

I'll gravitate to meditation, is more of a communication of our heartfelt thoughts than prayer is

Prayer, in christendom, has become a self centric and glorified give-me-give-me, wish list

MizMyColi:
This isn't about Christianity Bro

True that, its more than a religion

MizMyColi:
This is what LIFE and LIVING is all about - LOVE

This encapsulated comment came out of Luke 10:25-37

MizMyColi:
When we begin to see others as an extension of ourselves, down to the "maddest man" on your street, planet earth, and our country, - our individual lives would be better for it

True that
however individual lives would be better for it through self-government

MizMyColi:
We are not meant to be like God.
We are meant to BE GOD

You are meant to like God and meant ''to be God''

MizMyColi:
That's the only way to end humanity's suffering

When ALL has run its course, thats then when humanity's suffering will end.

MizJanet:
You can lie Sha, the bold reveal u as a fraudster, u ain't making any sense!

OVER ALL not some within rom 9:5

As earlier said this is just your typical ''m.o.''
This is another of your phantom Bible contradictions
and you pursuing a mistaken belief and misguided line of thought that Romans 9:5 ever included God in OVER ALL

Romans 9:5 is saying that the actions of the patriarchs (i.e. the fathers as in Abraham, Isaac and Jacob aka Israel) and their descendants up to believers are ALL influenced OR led by Christ

Why you are so bent of trying to put together two verses (i.e. Romans 5:9 and 1 Corint 11:3) that are contextually unsuitable for each other?

There no contradiction but you inventing one and being bent on making mischief again
Again, nitpicking, just for mere nitpicking sake, is not healthy

MizJanet:
This verse said Christ is God over ALL,.
You know what that means?

Yes, know what that means,
but seriously doubt, you know, what that means

MizJanet:
"To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen." - Rom 9:5 ESV

Yeah, God over the patriarchs and all aforementioned up to and within Rom 9:5

MizJanet:
Now, it's shocking to read the below verse contradicting Christ as God over all... How? Read this

"The head of Christ is God" 1 Corint 11:3

It's you who needs to read 1 Corint 11:3 again,
and if read slow and loud, then you'll realise this barking up the wrong tree

But I want you to realize that Christ LEADS every man, and the man LEADS the woman, and God LEADS Christ, is what 1 Corint 11:3 is saying

God the Father, is the only one not LED by anyone
Christ doesnt LEAD God the Father

MizJanet:
Its either Romans 9:5 quoted above lied, cos a God over ALL can never have a head/authority he is subjected to as seen here..

Romans 9:5 said Christ, is the head of the patriarchs, the head of the Israelites and believers. He is the head of ALL these previously mentioned. (i.e. Christ LEADS them all)
The head of Christ, however, is God, just as beautifully reaffirmed in 1 Corint 11:3, where it stated that Christ is LED by God

MizJanet:
LOL, another Bible contradiction?

Nah, no, not another Bible contradiction, that's just your ''m.o.''
This is another of your phantom Bible contradictions
and you pursuing a mistaken belief and misguided line of thought that it is another Bible contradiction
Nitpicking, just for mere nitpicking sake, is not healthy

cc KingEbukasBlog, malvisguy212, Scholar8200, Image123

"mansions", this is a very interesting one.
The mention of "rooms/mansions/resting-places/homes/dwelling places/abodes/lodgings" only came about when Jesus responded to question(s) asked by the disciples about where He was going

The disciples being familiar with this ''groom preparing place for bride'' Jewish customs, related to it easily without thinking its a brain-teaser

Preparing a place for the bride, by the groom, in a large area of land in the parts owned by the male head of a family
actually has to do with a Jewish custom prevalent in just before, around and maybe a bit after Jesus' time.

I am not sure if the practice is still done in Israel at all or whether still now it is continued with present day Jews

The groom, in Jesus' times, before any wedding announcement or date fix, is expected to prepare or build an extension in his father's estate (i.e. father's large area of land)
The add-on building extension (i.e. rooms/mansions/resting-places/homes/dwelling places/abodes/lodgings) serves to accomodate the intended bride.

The wedding does not take place until when the groom's father is satisfied with the progress and work done by the groom in preparing the extension or building the add-on building extension (i.e. ''mansion'')

In My Father's house are many rooms/mansions/resting-places/homes/dwelling places/abodes/lodgings.
If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?
- John 14:2

"However, no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen,
not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself.
Only the Father knows
- Mark 13:32

It is not for the biblical times Jewish son to know the date fixed for the wedding.
It is the father, after father is content that the groom has satisfactorily and up to the father's standards has completely prepared the place for the bride, that the father decides the date of the wedding

That is the correlation between John 14:2 and Mark 13:32, and how Jesus came about the mentioning this old biblical times Jewish custom to explain that He doesnt know the time, He is only and merely going to prepare a place on the large area owned by the Father, and further saying in Mark 13:32 that, it is the Father who determines or has the last say on the wedding date
Only the Father determines or knows the D-Day (i.e. the designated day)

And to those who had been selling doves he said:
“Take these things out of here, and do not make my Father's house a house of trade.”
- John 2:16

Diverging a bit here, compare John 14:2 with John 2:16 above for a moment, to note that how ''Father's house'' is used in both verses and elsewhere has two or more different meanings
The former in John 14:2, is as in like a sovereign, kingdom or government,
whilst the latter in John 2:16 can be signified as an embassy/high Commissions/consulate/diplomat's building

If the Kingdom of Heaven extends or stretches beyond Heaven itself,
then it's easy to recognise or find out that, from wherever one is standing, Heaven (i.e. its sovereign, kingdom or government) goes further or is more than, as far as the eye sees

MizyB:
hello, oga muttleylaff, been a long a while sir. anyway

Ah, my OATT madam sister, I dropped you a passing note already on the other thread. Havent you seen it yet?

MizyB:
I've been following the thread. U established that the 'unknown tongues' being spoken in gatherings today is not in the real context the word of God is referring too.

Paul was talking about a spoken understandable coherent, intelligible meaningful unknown tongue
(i.e. 'unknown tongues' meaning unknown language)

MizyB:
Having read 1 Cor 12,13,14 in NIV its making sense to me (though am sort of scared what version is most reliable sev)

No bible translation or version is 100% reliable
God hasnt given us a spirit of fear but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind (i.e. 2 Timothy 1:7) so there is no excuse to be scared.
Here is what I always do:
I use all available resources and tools, to read the verse(s) in its original render (i.e. how it was written in Hebrew or Greek),
then look at ALL bible translations or versions to see which one properly or closely translated the verse best
I look at words in verses, then check out their meanings and/or etymologies, see how their translations from Hebrew or Greek to English was done
I look into the historical background, cultural setting pertaining to verse(s) to get a grip
I look into those strange idioms and phrases

Below are few links to give leverage:
Showing an example of an original greek rendering:- http://biblehub.com/text/1_corinthians/13-1.htm
An example of multiple bible versions shown at the same time:- http://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/13-1.htm

MizyB:
and I've asked the Holyspirit to explain more to me. Now, id love to ask, in chapter 13:1 what did Paul mean by '...tongues ... Of angels....'?

Without reading meanings into to trying to invent things out of it, it plainly means just was written and nothing untoward
'...tongues ... Of angels....' means '...languages ... Of angels....'
'...tongues ... Of angels....' in 1 Corinthians 13:1, was used as part of a declarative sentence to make a point that if one speaks all the languages of earth and of angels
but didn't love others, the speaking all the languages of earth and of angels would only be a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
The argument in the verse, is about love, consideration for others and not self
If one speaks all the languages of earth and of angels, without interpretation, such person lacks love, such lacks consideration of others, such is only concerned about the personal benefit or personal edification
Dont let '...tongues ... Of angels....' throw you off course the core and vital message in 1 Corinthians 13:1

MizyB:
And what does chapter 14:2 mean by '...no man understandeth him' did all the men had exclusive tongues to the extent that, no man could understand what another was saying?

This 1 Corinthians 14:2 version below, is the closest rendering to the original text

For if you have the ability to speak in tongues, you will be talking only to God, since people won't be able to understand you.
You will be speaking by the power of the Spirit, but it will all be mysterious.
- 1 Corinthians 14:2

Compared with other versions, 1 Corinthians 14:2 becomes self explanatory, when the above version is read

MizyB:
Verse 14 of the same chapter records ' ...my understanding is unfruitful....' a man speaking in a language known to him alone yet his understand is unfruitful or 'unfruitful' stands for something else.

When an Ibo recites a prayer in a Yoruba language he doesnt know or understand
Though he prayed in a Yoruba tongue, and in the spirit he prayed along too,
the fact remains that, because he doesnt understand Yoruba language, he didn't know what he said in that Yoruba prayer.

Paul was saying:
What was the point of the Ibo praying in a Yoruba language and in the spirit, without understanding what he just prayed in the Yoruba language? (i.e. the mind is unfruitful)

He further said:
Listen, when I pray in the spirit, I pray with my mind also. I sing in the spirit and I will sing in the mind also
He meant that whenever you talk, preach, teach, sing etcetera, do them all with understanding what you are talking, preaching, teaching, singing etctera
because when you are done, how will others be in agreement with you since they dont or wouldnt know what you've all along been saying

MizyB:
Aptly, what does the word of God mean by 'praying ... In the spirit' Ephesians 6:18. God bless u as u make time to reply sir

This is a profound question
Verses, like John 3:8, John 4:24 and Romans 8:26, flashed through my mind when about to respond to this
The Spirit is free, it is like a wind, we dont see it, we cant touch it but we can sense it, we can hear it
It moves, one minute it is quiet and still, next minute it can be howling and noisily slammimg doors shut

God is a Spirit, we pray in the spirit to associate oneself with what is happening or about to happen in the Spirit's, God's great/​grand scheme of things
When we pray in the spirit, we literally are positioning our satellite dish or antenna for good and maximum signal strength to get sharp pictures and/or clear broadcasts from God

Without tuning in, (i.e. pray in the spirit) distortions, bad reception, ugly feedbacks, clashing stations etcetera will be the end product

vooks:
Uninterpreted tongues I agree are to be kept private.

Good
Why not go the whole stretch and agree that unintelligible meaningless and gibberish nonsense is just what it is, pseudo-gobbledegook

This 20th century pseudo-gobbledegook invention is never interpreted, it hasn't been interpreted, it can't be interpreted

It is not a language to start with, so doesnt fit any category of uninterpreted tongues,

Do not be decieved, it is not heavenly language. It is not angelic language, it is something that is not true
It is a product of a world of fantasy and self-delusion
Anyone after this, wittingly still engaging in the practice, must be suffering from a strong dosage of delusion of grandeur

In social and public gathering, in the absence of interpretation, it is sensible to keep uninterpreted tongues, speech, talk, lecture etctera private

vooks:
Unfortunately you are trashing uninterpteted tongues

I am trashing unintelligible meaningless and gibberish nonsense

vooks:
while Paul prescribed praying for interpretation

I, like Paul, prescribe praying for interpretation of a spoken intelligible unknown language (i.e. spoken intelligible unknown tongue)

vooks:
What if there is no interpretation yet? You stop praying altogether in your tongues?

Yes, until there is an interpretation you pray in the common language the gathering understands

You are in a gathering comprising of like minded people with Igbo, Yoruba, Fulani, Hausa, Edo etcetera backgrounds,
who dont speak nor understand each other's unknown languages (i.e. each others language is unknown to the other),
when it is time to pray, teach or preach, which language in the absence of interpretation, will you speak, pray, teach or preach in?
What language please?

vooks:
I notice a subtle promotion of spiritual impotence

Please care to elaborate what subtle promotion of spiritual impotence means

MuttleyLaff:
Beyonce clsaims to be a christian, Obama claims to be a christian, the Pope is a christian, Dbanj is a christian, the list-goes-on-and-you-get-the-drift is a christian

The bible doesnt anywhere say a Christian is someone who believes in Christ and behaves like Him
The bible never called disciples, never called any of the Apostles, never called saints etcetera christians

johnw74:
Act 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

Act_26:28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.

1Pe_4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

G5546

Χριστιανός
Christianos
khris-tee-an-os'
From G5547; a Christian, that is, follower of Christ: - Christian.
Total KJV occurrences: 3

SMH

The bible clearly endorses Jesus as the Christ and tells what Christ means.
Christ means the Promised One, the Messiah or literally translated the ''Anointed One''

The word Christian, is legacy nickname for the disciples invented by the residents of Antioch

Tacitus was a senator and a historian of the Roman Empire, who once wrote: ''Those who were vulgarly known by the name of Christians''

Peter saying suffer as a Christian is not implying, or saying the early christians and apostles called themselves christians

On another when I posted that the early christians and apostles never called themselves christians,
someone counter-posted with:
Just a point of correction, Well i actually think that the reverse might be the case. As we can see from the following verse of scripture (sic)
putting forward 1 Peter 4:16 as evidence that early christians and apostles called themselves christians

Well, context is king, which is referring to 1 Peter 4:15-16 and keeping to Peter's train of thought in the verses
Now, johnw74, please honestly answer these questions:
If I say:
johnw74, of course, you shouldnt suffer for being a murderer, thief, criminal, or troublemaker
but if you suffer as a nigger, dont be ashamed; but glorify God that you bear this name.

Am I then calling you johnw74 a nigger?
Did I call you johnw74 a nigger?
Would a sane fellow black man call you a nigger?
Would you johnw74 call yourself a nigger?
Would you johnw74 answer back to being called a nigger?
What kind of person would want to call you a nigger?
Why would anyone/someone want to make you suffer as a nigger?

As earlier and all along insinuated, just like the term nigger, an anti-Black word, was created by the world (e.g. white supremacists, racists, slave owners etcetra)
from bastardizing the word niger (i.e. niger being used before the Slavery era to describe a black man or as used in Acts 13:1 for one of the disciple of Jesus)
and then used as nickname in a derogatory manner in reference to the black man
so the term Christian, an anti/gainst-Christ word, was created by the world (e.g. Jewish community Antioch residents, King Agrippa, heathens, non-believers etcetera)
and used as nicknames in a derogatory, contemptuous ridicule or mockery manner in reference to believer-disciples of Jesus

Now there were in the congregation {Gr. ekklesia – called out ones} that was at Antioch prophets and teachers:
Barnabas and Simeon that was called Niger
and Lucius of Cyrene and Manaen, who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul
- Acts 13:1

From the earliest usage of the word Christian, it was a term used by the Jewish community Antioch residents, King Agrippa etcetera for the early disciples
The name originated with unbelievers who despised the early disciples or true believers
and it carried with it a strong public condemnation, dislike, contempt and rejection for all that disciples are, what the disciples represent and what the aim of the disciples as in Matthew 28:19a is about

Therefore having gone, disciple all the nations, baptizing them
- Matthew 28:19a

Paul was willing to put into practice Matthew 28:19a
and especially pleased to have an opportunity of preaching the gospel to kings and rulers.
Discipling King Agrippa was exactly what Paul was doing when he tried to teach, instruct
and help King Agrippa to progressively to know about and learn the Word of God to become a matured, growing disciple

Paul tried to intimate King Agrippa in the truths of Scripture and the lifestyle required
but King Agrippa in Acts 26:28, wouldn't have any of that, so the king threw the gospel et al, back in Paul's face
and made the infamous sarcastic and disdained comment that Paul wants to turn him into a christian

That King Agrippa's comment in Acts 26:28, to Paul, was spoken and meant to be unflattering, unkind, insulting, disrespectful and demeaning, the same way the word nigger is meant to be when used

Agrippa answered, ''In brief, you are doing your best to persuade me to become a Christian''
- Acts 26:28

A christian is a follower of the religion of Christ,
- this is a world’s point of view,
and it's a misperception or misinterpretation of who a believer, disciple, saint, son of God, or who a called-out-one is

Believers themselves, just as with no denomination (e.g. Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, Celestial, RCCG, Christ Embassy, JW etcetera), know they have no religion
and that what they, believers, have, is a relationship with the Godhead,
- a relationship centrally and/or particurlarly with God, the Father,
and the relationship is grounded with/in Love, bonded with Faith and Grace

Believers, if pressed for a religion, might succumb to the label ''christian'',
if not chanced or ready to properly educate others about the ''christian'' tag

Bottom line, if care is not taken to properly understand and be right about little easy, peasy truths such as about the ''christian'' label,
then how are we going to fare when confronted with heavier, larger or difficult truths?
- like the label wasnt even ''christian'' to start with

I'll leave you with 1 Peter 4:15-16 verses to stew and ponder on towards accepting and admitting that Peter NEVER called anyone christian in 1 Peter 4:16

Instead of all these your 3 non applicable verses slash wuru-wuru to the answer tactics, I sincerely hope you look at the original text and see how it originally reads, as it will help you re-structure your thinking on this issue.

MizMyColi:
The Divine essence we popular refer to as God is best addressed as Spirit, or source, or creator

That Spirit, or Source, or Creator is God, period
God being a proper noun wherever and whenever it refers to YHWH
God and/or god, always had been, either of two possible connotations comprising of: Influencer/influencer and Judge/judge.

Depending on which side of the Influencer/influencer and Judge/judge fence, anything and anyone can be God and/or god
If on the former's side of the fence, there are ample examples, such as mammon the deity for riches, drugs, sex
If on the latter's side of the fence, well this is raised where mentioned two sections below

Anyway, without verbiage, Exodus 4:14-16 and Exodus 7:1, are some bird's-eye view verses, if noting the usage of the word in relation to Moses with Pharaoh and Aaron respectively, to help demystify the import or essence of the word God/god with

¹⁴And the anger of Jehovah was kindled against Moses, and he said, Is there not Aaron thy brother the Levite?
I know that he can speak well. And also, behold, he cometh forth to meet thee: and when he seeth thee, he will be glad in his heart.
¹⁵And thou shalt speak unto him, and put the words in his mouth: and I will be with thy mouth, and with his mouth, and will teach you what ye shall do.
¹⁶And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people; and it shall come to pass, that he shall be to thee a mouth, and thou shalt be to him as God.
- Exodus 4:14-16

And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
- Exodus 7:1

MizMyColi:
If you notice, Jesus never used the Word "God"

Jesus used the word ''God''
Notice He used the word ''God'' as part of the fourth word out of seven spoken on the cross
After starting with Father, used in His first words out of seven words spoken on the cross, He used the word ''God'' at an appropriate place and crucial time to acknowlege the power behind the culminating predetermined course of events and without doubts confirmed it is His destiny.

MizMyColi:
The only time he used the term was when he referred to us as "Gods"...

Hmm, care to share where exactly was the only time He used the term when he referred to us as "Gods"...

When ''He referred to us as ''gods''... sic, Jesus was reference-quoting Psalm 82:6
He was contextually implying you are "gods", as in like biblical Israelite righteous judges such as Deborah, Samson, Gideon, Jephthah etcetera, chosen by God to rescue the Israelites from their enemies and establish justice among the people.
If Deborah, Samson, Gideon, Jephthah etcetera are known as ''gods'', what's with the Pharisee' having a bad hair day over Jesus making Himself out to be God, was what Jesus was implying in John 10:33-38

MizMyColi:
He used "The Father or My Father"

For to us a child is born, to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, The Everlasting, Prince of Peace
- Isaiah 9:6

Isaiah 9:6 above, is an offshoot of John 3:16

The Israelites, until verses like Luke 2:49 never had the concept of seeing God as a Father
and before taught with other verses such as Matthew 6:9 and Luke 11:2 never had the boldness of calling God, Father
Jesus came to bridge that gap, for all to have a meaningful, affectionate, loving relationship with a God, who can be Fatherly

MizMyColi:
Once you give a name to something, you limit it. It can only work as far as your mind wills it to

Adam shouldnt have bothered with the naming exercise in Eden then
Anything known has a name
Ask Moses, whether knowing who are dealing with, knowing the name of who is sending you on an errand or mission breeds confidence or not

MizMyColi:
This being we refer to as God is more than that. It, as the source/father is the highest expression of it all

But as many as received Him,
He gave to them authority to be children of God -- to those believing in His name
- John 1:12

This being we refer to as God is more than that.
Yes His name is YHWH and has this yearning desire to be Father to whomsoever has blood relationship with the Godhood
but if God is YHWH aka I AM THAT I AM, then there is more than meets the eye about Him
thus leaving God, after Fatherhood, to be whatever God needs to be, wants to be or has to be

MizMyColi:
This Spirit fills all things with it/himself - ALL in ALL. When this spirit inhabits a body, it becomes a soul. An individualised Spirit is the soul

Also, the presence of God is everywhere

⁷Where can I go from Your Spirit?
Or where can I flee from Your presence?
⁸If I ascend to heaven, You are there;
If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You are there
- Psalm 139:7-8

All bodies have souls, which can either be dead or living souls
LIVING souls come about when this spirit and breath of God inhabits a body
Man is made up of spirit, soul and body.
The life of the flesh is the blood and so the body dies when the heart stops pumping blood
The life of the soul is the spirit, and so the soul without the spirit, is a dead soul
When the breath of God in a body returns back to God, the soul vacates the body and goes to a holding place

[size=4pt]MizyB, brakelights? You know how it is. No Oliver Twist things, but it sure looks like 24/7 sometimes isnt enough. Pardon me, will get back asap about the last twin or combo.[/size]

WinsomeX:
Muttleylaff, I subscribe to d women should not be leaders/teachers doctrine BC I think scriptures are quite clear about it

Does this subscription extend to the secular setting too
Like when Naija will have her first woman president as Naija's head
like when in 2006 -2007 Virginia Ngozi Etiaba was declared governor of Anambra state
or better still, like now in Taraba state, where Aisha Alhassan is Nigeria's first female governor-elect and the head of Taraba state

WinsomeX:
and many troubles in Christian ministry is much associated with women

Haba. You threw caution to the wind typing this.
In biblical times and even now, many positive things like funding ministries (e.g. Jesus' Paul etcetera) is much associated with women
In biblical times, providing places to gather at is much associated with women (e.g. Chloe, Lydia etcetera)
Exercising faith, breaking the mould, leading to exploits in biblical times is much associated with women
(e.g. Mary accepting Angel Gabriel's message, Mary's act of telling Jesus there is no wine, woman with an issue of blood, the Samaritan woman at the well etcetera)

Many troubles in Christian ministry is much associated with women sic as well as with men
(e.g. Corinthian men getting drunk or over eating during taking Holy Communion, Corinthian man sleeping with his father’s wife, rivalry & boasting among Corinthian men etcetera)

WinsomeX:
For example in 1 Corinthians 14, Paul says women shouldn't teach in church

Context is king, what Paul proffererd in 1 Corinthians 14 wasnt a magic bullet, as Paul also said so many other things about women, like
being not keen on them sporting braided or anything interwoven hair, wearing gold, pearls or expensive clothes

1 Corinthians 14 is a letter to the Corinthians dealing with situation-specific issues prevailing at that time and is not a blanket statement to the whole body of Christ

WinsomeX:
There is a sense in it that the whole Charismatic Confusion in Corinth was associated with women prophets, teachers and tonguers.

These were isolated problems specific to a young and growing baby gathering in a spiritually bankrupt and morally corrupt city

WinsomeX:
Remember also that it was a woman who first spoke in tongues or gibberish in 1900. A woman started the whole Chaos!

Gibberish is gibberish.
Gibberish is not tongues and vice versa
Unintelligible meaningless and gibberish nonsense, as we know and see spouted in gatherings isnt language but is a 20th centuary invention

WinsomeX:
Someone gave a wisdom somewhere: he said that he has learnt from experience that regardless of the argument, Paul always turns out right. And I suspect he's right in this too

Paul is right about the remedy and restraint he proffered to the Corinthians
Fast forwarding to the 21st century, with the Corinthian women spiritually coming of age, Paul's letter will be acknowledging the positions they ought to be taking in teaching and leadership roles

vooks:
And now to a more important point or question for you.
1. What is your reading of the verse?

About glossa
(i.e. read about spoken intelligible language and not about unintelligible meaningless and gibberish nonsense)

vooks:
Is 1 Cor 14:2 talking about paganism complete with a god in it?

No it wasnt
but is an admonition with a view, that all, have a common good, a common benefit, the gathering good, in mind

The instigator of an UNKNOWN tongue (i.e. spoken intelligible unknown language) is energised by the Spirit
but even with God in it, what is the good in it or benefit of it, if it is difficult or impossible for others to understand whatever is being said

Speaking in the gathering's commonwealth language, so all be carried along and be built up is the import of the verse

vooks:
2. Is there ANY merit in some arguments we read here that UNKNOWN tongue is different from tongues?

Yes there is,
because UNKNOWN tongue is not the unintelligible meaningless and gibberish nonsense we know and see spouted in gatherings

UNKNOWN tongue does exactly what it says on the tin, it is an UNKNOWN language indulged into by an instigator lacking consideration for others
Not minding that, apart from him, no one else understands his DIFFERENT and UNKNOWN tongue
This is what Paul is harping on about and not some unintelligible meaningless and gibberish 20th century invention

It is always pitiful watching saints allow themselves to be misled to believe something that is not true
It takes someone to be in a world of fantasy and grand self-delusion to believe that the unintelligible meaningless and gibberish spouted in gatherings is UNKNOWN tongue aka heavenly language

vooks:
And finally
What is 'different tongue(s)' and how does that differ from 'various kinds of tongues'?

'different tongue(s)' means another language
There is no difference between different tongue(s)' and 'various kinds of tongues'
'Different' means another or means other, it has an exact same meaning with 'various kinds'

Thought I briefly say this, incidentally, speaking in different tongue(s)' or 'various kinds of tongues' (i.e. different language) is for the benefit of non believers and not for believers

vooks:
And what is FLS?

It stands for Foreign Language Syndrome, a medically recognised rare condition. Look into it more yourself

cc sportsmaster

My continuation after the hiatus at https://www.nairaland.com/2699069/tongues-fundamental-flaw-pentecostalism/1#39591273

People, apart from just reading and only studying the bible, we ought to hearken to the prompting of the Holy Spirit to also diverge into history books in order to get clearer pictures

Please, I beg una all, to go catch up or read on the history of the biblical City of Corinth, it makes it easy to see and then understand the prevailing cultural context , out which the bible passage came from and what necessitated writing the letter in the manner it was penned

Out of curiousty, I like to know if any of the thread's readership, if any of those following the thread
or if any, from those who have so far been reading this thread, knew that the biblical City of Corinth, was otherwise known as Sin City?
Well this particular other name for the biblical City of Corinth, says it all, and to some degree hints or explains why Paul had to write the 2 Corinthians 6 chapter letter to the Corinthians

The biblical City of Corinth was that messed up, it was so much that bad, that without mincing words, the name ''Corinth'', became a synonym for sleaze

What of Diana, otherwise known as Artemis by the Greeks?
Anyone know about Diana and the onslaught of Diana's temple priestesses on the biblical City of Corinth?

I intentionally and fleetingly introduced the above immediate two lines because of some of my beloved brothers here on this thread like names-not-mentioned-as-they-know-themselves,
who due to particular verses such as Jeremiah 8:8 and 2 Peter 3:16 have misunderstood and misinterpreted 1 Timothy 2:12 in Paul's letters
and from which forgetting women such as Lydia, Priscilla, Nympha and Chloe they have drawn conclusion that God is against women in persuasive, teaching and leadership roles

“How can you say, ‘We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us’?
But behold, the lying pen of the scribes has made it into a lie.
- Jeremiah 8:8

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things;
in which are some things hard to be understood,
which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest,
as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2 Peter 3:16

Below is an excerpt, about the biblical City of Corinth, to trigger the taste buds with:

"She had a reputation for commercial prosperity, but she was also a byword for evil living.
The very word korinthiazesthai, to live like a Corinthian, had become a part of the Greek language, and meant to live with drunken and immoral debauchery ...
Aelian, the late Greek writer, tells us that if ever a Corinthian was shown upon the stage in a Greek play he was shown drunk.

The very name Corinth was synonymous with debauchery and there was one source of evil in the city which was known all over the civilized world. Above the isthmus towered the hill of the Acropolis, and on it stood the great temple of Aphrodite, the goddess of love. To that temple there were attached one thousand priestesses who were sacred prostitutes, and in the evenings they descended from the Acropolis and plied their trade upon the streets of Corinth, until it became a Greek proverb, 'It is not every man who can afford a journey to Corinth.'

In addition to these cruder sins, there flourished far more recondite vices, which had come in with the traders and the sailors from the ends of the earth, until Corinth became not only a synonym for wealth and luxury, drunkenness and debauchery, but also for filth." (William Barclay, The Letters To The Corinthians, p. 2-3)

This was an exhortation letter to an easily influenced Corinthian gathering, caught up in the midst of so many traditions, attractions, perversion, glamour, dangers etcetera
A warning letter with recommedations to protect the indwelling temple of God within the Corinthian gathering

Havent got time to go into details, so to cut a long story short, here is the abridged version:
The biblical City of Corinth, is a flourishing, cosmpolitan place with its fair share of vices, hustling and hedonistic
The yorubas, ibos, hausas, ijaws, fulanis, itsekiri, gambaris, benins, edos, people from all over the world, from different parts of the world etcetera were in the biblical City of Corinth
The saints when gathered at Lydia's place, sometimes use to pray, preach, teach or prophecy in their individual languages (i.e. tongues)
The yoruba man will do his thing in yoruba, without any interpretation, leaving everyone else except him understanding what hes just prayed, preached or propheised about
None is the wiser only him, understood what hes just said, the gathering didnt benefit except maybe yoruba brethrens and sis

Ibo kwenu, ndigbo kwenu, ibo man too will get up and do similar. Every one was doing same
The gathering were unrestrained, it was like being in market place, with different languages (i.e. tongues) darting and flying around, so Paul had to step in and rein order in

So Paul in effective, addressing the issue, was saying:
Look I have the gifts of various tongues, as I speak more languages than anyone of you. I speak yorubas, ibos, hausas, ijaws, fulanis, itsekiri, gambaris etcetera
For the sake of peace and orderliness, look when you speak, pray, teach or prophecy in your unknown to others-in-this-gathering yoruba language (i.e. tongue) no one benefits except you.

He further was saying:
See, listen, I Paul, personally would prefer to speak five understandable words to help others than ten thousand words in an unknown language

Paul in 1 Corinthians 14, among other things, time currently isnt allowing elaboration on, was making a determined effort to deal with this peculiar problem of speaking in vernacular
and stamp it out, as the practice only benefits the instigator and not the common good of the gathering

Unintelligible, meaningless and gibberish nonsense as we know and see spouted in gatherings is not what Paul in 1 Corinthians 14 was addressing. Paul couldnt have been talking about unintelligible, meaningless and gibberish nonsense because it is a fraud invented in the 20th century much later and hundreds of years after his death.

https://s12.postimg.org/gi4ul9vct/Typing_In_Tongues.jpg

Reading about Juanita Bynum a few years ago, typing ‌this above higlighted, similar unintelligible meaningless and gibberish nonsense fraud during a prayer post on Facebook was a real SMH
Tried to perfect a fraud by testing the waters with those gobbledegook

truthman2012:
Who is a Christian?

Beyonce clsaims to be a christian, Obama claims to be a christian, the Pope is a christian, Dbanj is a christian, the list-goes-on-and-you-get-the-drift is a christian

truthman2012:
It is someone who believes in Christ and behaves like Him.

The bible doesnt anywhere say a Christian is someone who believes in Christ and behaves like Him
The bible never called disciples, nver called any of the Apostles, never called saints etcetera christians

truthman2012:
Where did you see Jesus eating human flesh. Where did you see Jesus killed anybody?

He must have misunderstood what the Eucharist or Holy communion is about

truthman2012:
The man you saw in the video is not a Christian by Bible standard.

The man seen in the video lost the plot

The man and any other person(s) eating fellow human being(s) have barely sufficient theology
and truly dont have enough knowledge of what Jesus Christ would have done in such a situation as the one they must have experienced

malvisguy212:
The scripture does not support any of this act, the disciples do not force anyone to convert, the disciples die for their faith. Acting contrary to this is sin against God

I can relate to how this young man must have felt concerning the tragedy that beset him
however the scripture does not support his heinous act of retaliation.

The scripture in Deuteronomy 32:35 and Romans 12:19, states God, saying vengence and recompense is His
and frowns on the way he went about getting assistance in his time of worst nightmare
and manner of getting relieved of the trauma and emotional distress caused by the sad event

Vengeance is mine, and recompense, for the time when their foot shall slip;
for the day of their calamity is at hand, and their doom comes swiftly.’
- Deuteronomy 32:35

Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath:
for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
- Romans 12:19

The biblical people of Antioch will have a hard time recognising this chap and the amulet-arm-strapped fellows as ''christians''

He made matters worse by even picking on a defenceless, innocent, minding his own business Muslim

malvisguy212:
Surah 8:67:
“It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. Ye desire the lure of this world and Allah desireth(for you) the Hereafter, and Allah is Mighty, Wise.” (Pickthall)

Surah 5:33: The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be
killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs is an awful doom. (Pickthall)

Sahih Muslim, Book 38, Number 4359:Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas: The verse “The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Apostle, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite side or exile from the land…most merciful” was revealed about polytheists. If any of them repents before they are arrested, it does not prevent from inflicting on him the prescribed punishment which he deserves

I wouldnt bother retaliating with tit for tat responses like this one brother

OLAJADON:
did u just say paul, guy u Bleep up..
is it not the same paul that gave a different account about the crucifixion of jesus...
do u know that their is a place in the bible that paul said it himself that what he himself (pardon my english) wrote is mixed with lie
(can remember the bible verse, maybe a muslim brother can help me with the verse....
but if u insist on getting the verse i can help u with it..and i will send it to u... when it ready)

malvisguy212:
where is the verse?

ROTBL. He is waiting for the calvary to bail him out with a get-out-of-jail card

Scholar8200:
Make haste to give your proofs of the highlighted!

Let's put the kettle on whilst we wait for him to come back possibly with a misinterpreted Romans 3:7

PS: This topic about women has been overflogged on different threads so many times.
I wonder what OP will do when Naija has her first woman president as Naija's head
I wonder how OP took it in 2006 -2007 when Virginia Ngozi Etiaba was declared governor of Anambra state
or better still, now in Taraba state, where Aisha Alhassan is Nigeria's first female governor-elect and the head of Taraba state