₦airaland Forum

anyimontana:
I cant see any pic,..show me,pls?..if not, change d headline to 'READ'

Shey na only pic pesin dey see, dont you have to see text before you read am

Jay542:
Very Observant sir.

Except na braille, dont you have to see the text before you read

PastorAIO:
Abeg o, my guy...

Just was thinking the temperament in your post could cause a thermometer to break from the sharply rising mercury

PastorAIO:
We are speaking of the law as one

Yes, we are speaking of the law, to be ONE body of divine commandments as expressed in the Bible via Moses

PastorAIO:
I am inquiring into what it means to 'fulfill' the law.

''fulfill'' the law, means simply, meeting the righteous standard of the Law (i.e. meaning 24/7 100% keep up with the Law)

Without going into the nitty-gritt, it is evident that it is impossible and hard for man, by himself, to meet the righteous standard of the Law
(side note: I implore you read Acts 15 and importantly make a mental note of Acts 15:10)
or for man to able to fulfil the Law or the Prophets.

Only God can, and that is why God came, what Jesus came to do and what God did, using Jesus, in the form of man, to do

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth
- Romans 10:4 KJV

And by Him all that believe are justified from all things (i.e. declared righteous),
from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses
- Acts 13:39 KJV

He did this by ending (i.e. abolishing) the system of law with its commandments and regulations.
He made peace between Jews and Gentiles by creating in Himself one new people from the two groups
- Ephesians 2:15 NLT

Why, then, was the law given?
It was given alongside the promise to show people their sins.
But the law was designed to last only until the coming of the child who was promised
God gave his law through angels to Moses, who was the mediator between God and the people
- Galatians 3:19 NLT

Providing Romans 10:4, Acts 13:39, Ephesians 2:15 and Galatians 3:19 above was necessary
and wasnt at all meant to be an information overload
so hope the four verses were stomached well, digested and kept down without being infoxicated or getting stomach cramps

My dear friend, trust you are familiar with the sayings:
If you want a thing done well, (i.e. want the righteous standard of the Law done well), do it yourself
OR
if you want something done right (i.e. want the righteous standard of the Law done well), you have to do it yourself

Doing it by self, for it to be done well and for it to be done right, is what God via Jesus did in fulfiling righteous standard of the Law
Jesus fulfilled the law by abiding, observing, adhering to, going along with, consented to the Law and/or the Prophets

Jesus came to fulfil the law, where the law is the body of divine commandments as expressed in the Bible via Moses, or pronouncement by the prophets or made directly by God
(i.e. fulfil as in, to make, where applicable, each or all of them come to pass or come true by abiding, observing, adhering to, going along with, consented to them)

Jesus fulfilled the law by meeting all the righteous standard of the Law
Jesus satisfied all the righteous standard of the Law albeit the Mosaic part of the Law, on our behalf,
the Mosaic part of the Law is no longer binding, the royal law part though is, because that part is eternal

PastorAIO:
Does to fulfill the law mean to contradict it?

No it doesnt.
The above immediate has touched on this
and mind you, you really are getting hold of the wrong end of the stick here with this misinformed ''contradict'' speak

PastorAIO:
We are treating the law as one. Not that we will abrogate certain laws and yet hold on to certain other laws.
I asked you about two different commands of the law. The first one you said that you are still bound by it.

This is what happens, where there is a misunderstanding of the words, the passage, the context and intended or targeted audience

PastorAIO:
The second one, you said 'not necessarily yes'

The royal law (i.e. the 10 commandments etcetera ) and the law received from the hands of angels (i.e. Moses' Law) though different from another, form the one body of commandments

The former (i.e. do not covet...) is an eternal command hence the reason for saying yes
the latter (i.e. eye for an eye) beside my original or earlier correct ''you arent meant to be bound by this particular law of retaliation'' remark
is, as a matter of fact, intended for a different targeted audience and, it was added till the seed should come, and that seed was Jesus Christ,
hence the reason for saying not ''necessarily yes''

PastorAIO:
That means you're dividing the law

Ah, o ma se ooo, peele.

No, it doesnt mean dividing the law the way you're misunderstanding the idea
but means unashamedly rightly dividing the word of truth on the law

One is a royal law (i.e. do not covet...) which is eternal,
the other is a law of Moses (i.e. eye for an eye), which has been done away with (i.e. gone past its use-by date)

He brought an end to the commandments and demands found in Moses' Teachings
so that he could take Jewish and non-Jewish people and create one new humanity in himself. So he made peace
- Ephesians 2:15

Remember I quoted Ephesians 2:15 in the previous post and now twice on this post about this
I also provided an analogy about the 9:00 pm lights out or bed time for the purpose of explanation or clarification

PastorAIO:
and cherry picking the one that you want to follow from the one you want to abrogate

My dear friend dont be needlessly alarmed, this is not cherry picking or abrogating

The bible is clear without needing to resort to cherry picking
You will have a light-bulb moment, the second you recognise and appreciate that the bible is a book of divisions, with timelines and targeted audience

⁷What other nation is so great as to have their gods near them the way the Lord our God is near us whenever we pray to him?
⁸And what other nation is so great as to have such righteous decrees and laws as this body of laws I am setting before you today?
- Deuteronomy 4:7 NIV

¹⁹He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.
²⁰He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD
- Psalm 147:19-20

If you dont get the Jew part, the gentile part, the ekklesia (i.e. church) part and the unbeliever part in the right places (i.e. if you dont know the differences)
you'll never be able to figure out what the Bible is talking about, who the Bible is talking about, who the Bible is talking to
If the truth is not rightly divided, you will never know when the Bible is talking about the Jew, talking to the Gentile, ekklesia (i.e. church) or unbeliever
and just wouldnt be able figure out properly what the bible really or actually means

Deuteronomy 4:7 and Psalm 147:19-20 are two typical examples to show that the bible is a book of division, meaning it has Jew, Gentile, ekklesia (i.e. church) and unbeliever divisions
there are some part it says to the Jew it didnt say to the Gentile,
some things it says to the Gentile it didnt say to the ekklesia (i.e. church)
other things it says to the unbeliever, it doesnt or didnt say to ekklesia (i.e. church) etcetera

The onus is on you, as 2 Timothy 2:15 requires that, you study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

PastorAIO:
Now the reason for my interest in this dumbassed thread is because somebody has stood up to point the finger at another. Trying to cast the catholic church in bad light, meanwhile he is just filled with hateful bias without any actual christian basis for his vile attacks

If the papacy reads, then you might be in for FID DEF (i.e. fidei defensor)

PastorAIO:
He has not basis in the bible, he has no basis in the Holy Spirit and he has no basis in the traditions of christianity handed down from the apostles.
Yet he fancies himself to be superior to catholics in some way

Pointing out errors, drawing attention to lies or warning of falsehood in Catholicism or Protestantism is not a claim of superiority nau
I must admit OP started OTT with one, two or more excessive and exaggerated claims
but why wouldnt you refute the claim(s) in the OP's first post,

I for one, would love to read about purgatory coming from the horse's mouth, from a seasoned and matured catholic perspective,
as I suspect the Catholic church out of better understanding have altered her stance and repackaged the doctrine of purgatory after getting much flak over the original way of thinking about the purging doctrine

Wouldnt mind, reading about the purging doctrine from a non-Catholic too.

PastorAIO:
That is what brought me to this thread

I wondered what caused the adrenaline rush and why being gung-ho all guns blazing on the thread

PastorAIO:
There is a pattern amongst such people.
I notice that they have a fondness of using certain rhetorics that they lifted off the bible, but when you quiz them on the rhetorics you'll find that they are empty vessels just making a great deal of hollow noise. Ask them to explain what the mean by those rhetorics and they'll start to chew their lips

Another dogmatic pattern is copying and pasting Christ Embassy's Rhapsody of Realities works here in the Religion forum
and impossibly trying to defend the content when the poster isnt the mind behind the thought nor the author or originator of the written work

Two posters are consistently guilty of this practice and infamously known for not crediting to Pastor Chris whenever publishing his Rhapsody of Realities works here in the Religion forum
They leave the Pastor Chris credit out, and make-believe the posted write up, published in its full and unedited entire form, is a fresh and original work of theirs. SMH.

PastorAIO:
Anybody can repeat words that they've heard before, but not everybody can understand what he/she is talking about.

Likewise, anybody can copy and paste Christ Embassy's Rhapsody of Realities here
but can never defend what Pastor Chris, (i.e. the author or originator of the Rhapsody of Realities written work) is talking about
because Pastor Chris' train of thoughts on the subject matter is known only to him
and not known or revealed to the Nairaland poster(s) posting Pastor Chris' work

Joagbaje:
Healing school is going on in lagos.
Just simply take a sick person there and find out for yourself not by other men story. I have 3 people there. One has complete miracle already without pastor chris praying for them yet. Just by the teaching in the classes and prayers of faith. The other who's husband had stroke and mental challenge for 2 years called yesterday. His mind is restored already. He's beginning to walk far better. Pastor chris has not laid hands on them yet. Many are healed

Joagbaje:
I made enquiry about this.
And I was told the people that are put on wheelchair are medically wheelchair cases.
Even though they received some healing and improvement during the classes before being ministered to.
They still have to be on wheelchairs medically until full healing when man of God prays for them.

Why only wheel chairs, when are wooden legs going to be seen left behind at CEC healing grounds?

Joagbaje:
You can't over stretched the body of such people till they fully recover. It can cause harm.
They are made to excercise their faith at certain times in the classes. But it has to be under guidance. But the truth of the matter is that they came paralyzed and they left healed

https://i57.tinypic.com/34sp9j4.gif

Boss13:
Why do men like you continue to deceive the vulnerable and the weak at heart? Surely, God will visit you, if not this life, definitely in the next

Joagbaje:
why are men like you blinded by Satan to always doubt .
John 7:12
12 And there was much murmuring among the people concerning him: for some said, He is a good man: others said,
Nay; but he deceiveth the people.

Save your breath concerned Boss13, such men's consciences are seared with a hot iron
Resorting to sophistry and misusing John 7:12 to justify their deception course of action is the tell tale sign

Ranchhoddas:
Why are those healed never on nairaland?

You dey mind the Jero

IMASTEX:
I have had many occasion of presenting this question to severe persons before but their responses have not been satisfactory.

So, I decided to present the question here for clarity and better understand.

Please, I want to know with possible illustration and example (biblical) the difference between the body, spirit and soul

https://s28.postimg.org/iitnnugr1/Man.jpg
The above graphic is provided, as it is related to the explanation I'll be sharing about the Body Soul & Spirit that makes up Man

He went on to say,
"Pay attention to what you're listening to!
Knowledge will be measured out to you by the measure of attention you give.
This is the way knowledge increases
- Mark 4:24

What is man?
Man is a spirit being, residing or housed in a Body and possessing a Soul
Man is made up of Body, Soul (i.e. uses the heart as an outlet) and Spirit.
The Soul has the body and spirit on each opposite sides of it

Mind you, the Soul is the most important existence of Man
and that is why the battle is and always has been about or over the Soul
All attack is ultimately targeted at the Soul

The Body has 5 faculties of senses
(i.e. which are, to see via the eyes, hear via the ears, feel via applicable part of the body, smell via the nose and taste via the mouth)
The faculties of the Soul comprises of the Mind (i.e. conscious and sub conscious) or Intellect, Will or Freewill, and Emotions
The faculties of the Spirit comprises of Fellowship, Conscience, Discernment or Intuition

Now, the Soul is the first medium key component of Man created by God
and Man is tickled and accessed through this Soul by way of the body and spirit
The Soul, in effective, is the mediator between the body and spirit
(i.e. a go-between which attempts to make the body and spirit come to an agreement when involved in a conflict)

The different faculties in the Soul waits, to pick up signals coming from the relevant and/or applicable faculties in the Body and the Spirit
This bit is very important, the Soul receives from the Body and deposits into the Spirit
Whatever the Body reads or sees via the eyes, hears via the ears, feels via applicable part of the body, smells via the nose and talks or tastes via the mouth is picked up by the Soul and deposited into the Spirit
The Spirit upon receiving things from the Soul, has to deal or process what the Soul has deposited into its laps

This is why regulation is very important. It is why we ought to control and oversee what the Soul is picking up from or picking up with the senses
If you have to eat the chicken or fish, this is why its necessary to know when and how to spit out the bones
or if it's grain to eat, then know when and how to spit out the straws
alternatively, if it's liquor to drink, and you cant hold it down so you don't throw it up, then know how or when to stay away from the liquor

Now, for example, say we are discussing ''speaking in tongues''
if the Soul picks up an unknown tongue or foreign language from the Body, it cant interpret,
then the deposit into the Spirit will be unfruitful (i.e. without expected results)

The Spirit knows what it expects from the Soul for fruition to be possible but the Soul received from the Body an unknown tongue or foreign language it doesnt via the Mind or Intellect understand
Now just as in physical when the stomach growls, making noises for food, when nourishing is long overdue,
so it is spiritually, the Spirit intercedes for us through wordless and noiseless groans for substances necessary for growth, health and good condition

The Soul determines what the Spirit receives, but if, the Soul is transferring the wrong expectations (e.g. not praying right, not asking right etctera)
then the Spirit goes into or does the wordless groans (i.e. the spirit knows what should be prayed for, so it becomes restless with wordless groans, when the expectation(s) is not forthcoming or not in sight)
The Spirit is like saying: Hey Mr Soul, where are the goods am expecting, please dont feed me with trash
and so since the Spirit tells the Soul what it needs, the Soul has to go back to the Body for the request
Now, if it is one of those classic cases of the Spirit is willing BUT the Body is weak, then the Body many times will REFUSE the Soul the request of the Spirit
and here we have a typical case of struggle or power tussle going on in the Soul involving the Body and the Spirit
The Spirit knows what it needs the Soul giving it from the Body (i.e. the Spirit tells the Soul what to do, expecting the Soul to relay this information request to the Body)
but the Body, many times, is not ready or prepared to act in accordance with the wish or command of the Spirit by giving or offering it to the Soul for the Spirit

The Spirit cannot give to the Body righteous things it didnt receives from the Soul
OK, here is the clarification to ward off confusion: The Soul passes on all righteous things it receives from the Body,
if fruitful and meaningful when the Spirit receives it, the Spirit will then conceive the ''fruit'' and return it back to the Body via the Soul
The Soul feeds the Spirit and the Soul receives from the Spirit to feed the Body
that is why if your mind (i.e. Soul) doesnt understand something OR anything, it would be unable to interpret to successfully feed the Spirit or the Body

IMASTEX:
If someone dies, which of the units goes to God and what happens to the remaining units

The spirit goes back to God, the body goes back to the ground, and the soul goes to a ''holding place'' otherwise known as Sheol

IMASTEX:
And finally, which is more supreme among them all

''And you shall not be afraid of those who kill the body that are not able to kill the soul; rather be afraid of him who can destroy soul and body in Gehenna.''
- Matthew 10:28

For how is a man benefited if he should gain the whole world and he should lose his soul?
- Mark 8:36

Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health,
even as thy soul prospereth
- 3 John 1:2

With all the aforementioned and verses like Matthew 10:28, Mark 8:36 plus 3 John 1:2 above,
no doubt, it is the soul that is supreme

Every human being, fundamentally is a soul (i.e. Ezekiel 18:4 KJV and Ezekiel 18:20 KJV )
the soul is housed in a body suit, and animated by the spirit aka breath of God
When the spirit aka breath of God leaves the body (i.e. give up the ghost), the body shuts down and degenerates and the soul vacates the body for the ''holding place''

Fact is, the devil is after the soul, the devil wants you to lose your soul, whereas God is after saving the soul

IMASTEX:
I await your enlighten comments. Thanks!

Give the thanks to God

PastorAIO:
The question I asked you, Na simple yes or no question o.

You are no longer bound by the law, does that mean that you are no longer bound to 'Thou shalt not covet your neighbours wife'?

Me, If I don't understand something I ask questions. No pride.

I told you I don't understand what you're saying.
I asked you to explain it, you're dancing atilogwu

https://i57.tinypic.com/34sp9j4.gif
Watching and reading from the sidelines, dancing atilogwu in ''you're dancing atilogwu'' got me doubling up
What do you expect when you're asking a ''walk barefoot on hot coal'' question

PastorAIO:
I'll repeat:

Are you still bound to 'Thou shalt not covet your neighbours wife'?

Yes

PastorAIO:
Are you still bound to 'Eye for an Eye'

He brought an end to the commandments and demands found in Moses' Teachings so that he could take Jewish and non-Jewish people and create one new humanity in himself. So he made peace
- Ephesians 2:15


As seen from Ephesians 2:15 above, not necessarily yes, as you arent meant to be bound by this particular law of retaliation

PastorAIO:
or has Jesus annulled that one?

23Before the way of faith in Christ was available to us, we were placed under guard by the law. We were kept in protective custody, so to speak, until the way of faith was revealed.
24Let me put it another way. The law was our guardian until Christ came; it protected us until we could be made right with God through faith.
25And now that the way of faith has come, we no longer need the law as our guardian
Galatians 3:23-25 NLT

When I was a kid, my bed time was 9:00 pm, that parent law was a guide until I came of age
That parent law protected me until adulthood, when I no longer need the bed time 9:00 pm parent law as a guide, for knowing when to go to bed or to sleep

Fact is, Jesus never suggested that the law of Moses like this ''Eye for an Eye'' retaliation law would remain forever in effect
Likewise, my parents never suggested that the 9:00 pm bed time would for me, remain forever in effect

PastorAIO, give it a rest, please abeggy free the guy joor
Go pick on somebody your own size! Thats a joke :-)

Gombs:
I've sorely tried to avoid your posts... I hope this is the last on this thread.

Did you read what you just typed? So, then Abraham’s covenant was truncated or superceded? When? How?

Why was there moses' covenant in the first place? Why was there a need to replace it? Does it then mean the Abrahamic covenant had flaws? Didn't you read the law was instituted because of transgressions till the seed whom the promise was (notice the singular) made should come?

Wrong. It's all based on the promise! Go read your Bible

You must be joking. So, this was the covenant God had with Jesus?

I don't have time to joke around with you... That's why I avoid your posts initially.

Cheers.

If you want to play chicken it's your prerogative.
Trust you to feign not reading where it was posted that the Abrahamic covenant is an eternal one and that the Mosaic Covenant was jettisoned.

No jokes, just playing hardball like you want, right there is a covenant between God and Jesus the seed, just as you asked

SMH the Mosaic Covenant was replaced because its physical and about the law(s) for the New Covenant which apart from its redemption nature is spiritual and is about grace
Did I have to repeat and repost this again for you to take note of this statement, erh. SMH

petra1:
Well we have to go back to the Old Testament and check the prophecies made concerning this new covenant . Let me start with Jeremiah . I will publish the rest as I can remember .

Jeremiah 31:31-33

Gombs:
We can all see God was referring to the covenant with Moses... A covenant Jesus replaced properly

In Jeremiah 31:31-33, God was getting ready and making preparation to get rid of the Mosaic Covenant (i.e. physical and law) as it will no more be wanted or needed
and the Covenant of Christ aka Promised Covenant (i.e. spiritual and grace) will take its place

Gombs:
Now, These two covenants are other under that of Abraham, for without Abraham, there would have been no covenant with Israel

Whether with or without Abraham, a new covenant is a new covenant
Mind you recognise the Abrahamic Covenant, the Mosaic Covenant and the Covenant of Christ aka Promised Covenant are individual covenants with their own merits
The Abrahamic Covenant is an eternal covenant, the Mosaic Covenant became out of date and obsolete, and the Covenant of Christ aka Promised Covenant is a new covenant with a special redemptive nature making it able to stand on its own

Gombs:
Now, my question is, did God enter a covenant with Jesus? If yes, scriptures will be greatly Appreciated.

You've been trying play hardball on this issue by repeatedly asking ''did God enter a covenant with Jesus''
Well, if you insist on wanting to play hardball, we can play that way by giving you Genesis 17:10

This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee;
Every man child among you shall be circumcised
- Genesis 17:10

Very soon, you'll be asking where is trinity written in the scripture

petra1:
Well we have to go back to the Old Testament and check the prophecies made concerning this new covenant . Let me start with Jeremiah . I will publish the rest as I can remember .

Jeremiah 31:31-33

It's a delight to see you doing the "Priscilla explaining to Apollos" with Gombs on this
Well Jeremiah 31:31, Luke 22:20 and Hebrews 9:15 for starters I reiterate when he asked about the which and where

promise10:
The new convenant is a RENEWED covenant between Abraham and God. Through which we receive grace freely

The new convenant IS NOT a RENEWED covenant between Abraham and God

It is important to note the different covenants made
and to know the difference between RENEWED and NEW

Among the numerous covenants made between men or man and God, there is a covenant between Abraham and God (i.e. the Abrahamic Covenant)
There is a covenant made with the Israelites' ancestors and God (i.e. the Old Testament or Old Covenant aka the Mosaic Covenant)
and there is a new covenant made with the house of Israel plus the house of Judah and God (i.e. the NewTestament or New Covenant aka the Covenant of Christ )

The new convenant IS NOT a RENEWED covenant
but is a new convenant with a new party and God
The new convenant is a NEW another covenant between God and humans
(i.e. the people of Israel and with the people of Judah to start with then the rest of the earth)

Gombs:
Christ is the seed of Abraham

Equally, Christ is the seed of the woman too in the Adamic covenant of Genesis 3:15
just as He is the seed of Abraham in the Abrahamic Covenant of Genesis 22:18 you mentioned in passing

Gombs:
You don't have a covenant with God

By now, you've probably realised we do have a covenant with God

petra1:
@Gombs,

The new covenant by the blood of christ is between who and who?

God bless you real good for asking him that question

Gombs:
That's why we teach...

https://i57.tinypic.com/34sp9j4.gif

Gombs:
If you didn't know, be humble and learn. Check the scriptures I'd these be true... Stop whining.

Meanwhile, don't derail. Do you have a covenant with God? If yes... Which? And when?

Thanks

Yes... Which? And when? Well Jeremiah 31:31, Luke 22:20 and Hebrews 9:15 for starters

In the same way, he took the cup of wine after supper, saying,
"This cup is the new covenant between God and his people--an agreement confirmed with my blood.
Do this to remember me as often as you drink it."
- 1 Corinthians 11:25

Gombs:
We’re Children Of The Covenant

Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed (Acts 3:25)

Yes heirs of God's Covenant With Abraham

Gombs:
One Bible character that’s been very popular and important through the ages is Abraham. What made him so relevant in God’s scheme of things? It’s the covenant God made with him. Abraham was God’s covenant friend. Now, I know there’re Christians who say they have a covenant with God. No, you don’t have any covenant with God.

Yes, believers do have a covenant with God
and no, not talking of the Abrahamic Covenant, not talking of the Mosaic Covenant (i.e. the law(s))
but referring to 1 Cor. 11:25's Covenant Of Christ

Gombs:
Abraham had a covenant with God, but we’re not in that covenant.

Of course we’re not in that Abrahamic Covenant

Gombs:
Who are we?

We’re the seed of Abraham: “For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise” (Galatians 3:26-29)

Who are we?
We’re the seed of Abraham alright however Ephesians 2:11-22 tells more who we were and who we now are

We also are the other sheep that weren't of the fold

I have other sheep that are not of this fold.
I must bring them in as well, and they will listen to My voice.
Then there will be one flock and one shepherd
- John 10:16

Gombs:
As Abraham’s seed, we’re the children of the covenant that God had with him. This is really amazing! Let me illustrate further. Imagine a husband and his wife in a marriage covenant. Would their child or children be part of their covenant? Absolutely not! Their child would be the product of the covenant

Does this ''the product of the covenant'' line of reasoning apply to the Mosaic Covenant too?

Gombs:
Books have been written about our covenant with God, but really, we’re not in covenant with God

Tithes, by the way, as we all know, is part of the conditional blessing in the Mosaic Covenant God made with the Israelities
So, if not in covenant with God, then why enforcing the Mosaic Covenant of tithing?
(i.e. tithing is part of the Old Testament or Old Covenant)

Gombs:
The danger of this misleading teaching is that while praying and trying to get results on the basis that you’re in covenant with God, you’re merely trying to get what you already have. And you’ll never get it that way. There’re things people pray and struggle for that shouldn’t be, if only they knew who they are, and their positioning in Christ. We’re children of the covenant!

We’re children of the Abrahamic Covenant alright
however we are more, as we have a new and better covenant to the Mosaic Covenant (i.e. the Old Testament or Old Covenant)
and this covenant is called the Covenant Of Christ aka Promised Covenant

But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one,
since the new covenant is established on better promises
- Hebrews 8:6 NIV

That is why he is the one who mediates a new covenant between God and people,
so that all who are called can receive the eternal inheritance God has promised them. For Christ died to set them free from the penalty of the sins they had committed under that first covenant.
- Hebrews 9:15 NLT

In the Covenant Of Christ, Jesus intervenes between two disputing parties (i.e. God and us)
and the Covenant Of Christ has sprinkled blood that speaks a better word on our behalf than the blood of Abel ever does

AnalyticEngine:
[size=5pt]The conclusion of your argument is that the immediate family of Jesus as at that time was among those of the highest social class. Excellent.

Let's include Matthew 13:54
When He had come to His own country, He taught them in their synagogue, so that they were astonished and said, “Where did this Man get this wisdom and these mighty works?

My friend, their amazement at his teachings definitely suggest that Jesus was not from a noble class. The display of impeccable wisdom was expected of the elite only.

The premises of and inductions from your argument is that between the days of temple building and the days of Jesus;
1. ALL carpenters and smiths built the God's temple
2. Either the same carpenters and smiths who built the temple were still alive as at the time Jesus began his ministry or ALL their children continued with their parent's trade.
3. Should anyone have opened a workshop during the time of Jesus where he supplies such services like carpentry, he automatically is an elite
4. Not only were the nobles artisans, smiths etc, they doubled as teachers of the law (adduced from your argument). Therefore, Pharisees and Saducees were carpenters and smiths.

Your argument is fantastically invalid.

The following scriptures do not support your claims of Jesus being of the highest level of nobility:

“For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ,
that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes He
became poor, that you through his poverty might be
rich.” (2Co 8:9)

 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men (Phil 2:7)

Mary could sacrifice only two turtle doves which was a poor households sacrifice for the
purification of child birth (Lev 12:2-8; Luk 2:24).

If the family of Jesus was among the highest nobles of their time, he certainly would have been buried in their own noble tomb. Instead, he was buried in a rich man's tomb. That the bible emphasised he was buried in a rich man's tomb shows he was not from the elite class else it might not have been necessary to mention it.

When I used the word 'ridiculous' to describe your your premises and the conclusion of your argument, I do not mean it to insult you. I used it in an attempt to accurately describe the nature of your argument[/size]

ROTBL welcome to MrPresident1's world of eisegesis

Just a throw him a rope, trust he'll either use it as a life line to get out of the hole he's digging himself in or use it to tangle himself up more with it.

MrPresident1:
Tell me about the assets you are blessed with , are your assets in front or at the back or both?

Is this how you grow your tent? With smutty jokes?
Go sit down elsewhere or go to a corner and pitch a tent there.

MrPresident1:
Stop quoting NLT bible, that is a dead bible doctored to keep the dead completely and permanently dead!

I don't intend to lose any sleep quoting NLT bible because quoting it was a random selection
Dont lose sleep over it

MrPresident1:
Which one is Oshogbo weed or bath salts

Good natured banter

MrPresident1:
The temple according to the dimensions given was just about the size of a basketball court, how could the whole of Israel fit into such a space? it was all symbolic language. The difference between Moses' tabernacle of congregation and Solomon's temple is that Solomon was actually authorized to build the temple, Moses could not call his own a temple because they had not yet gotten to the place where God would choose 'to place His name there'.

Both Moses' tabernacle of congregation and Solomon's temple were capital cities. Moses' capital in the wilderness on the way to the Promised land, and Solomon's capital in the promised land.

¹While King David was living in his house, the LORD gave him peace with all his enemies around him.
²So the king said to the prophet Nathan, "Look, I'm living in a house made of cedar, while the ark of God remains in the tent."
³Nathan told the king, "Do everything you have in mind, because the LORD is with you."
⁴But that same night the LORD spoke his word to Nathan:
⁵"Say to my servant David, 'This is what the LORD says: Are you the one who will build me a house to live in?
⁶I haven't lived in a house from the day I took Israel out of Egypt to this day. Instead, I moved around in a tent, the tent [of meeting].
⁷In all the places I've moved with all the Israelites, did I ever ask any of the judges of Israel whom I ordered to be shepherds of my people Israel why they didn't build me a house of cedar?'
⁸"Now this is what you will say to my servant David: 'This is what the LORD of Armies says: I took you from the pasture where you followed sheep so that you could be the leader of my people Israel.
⁹I was with you wherever you went, and I destroyed all your enemies in front of you. I will make your name famous like the names of the greatest people on earth.
¹⁰I will make a place for my people Israel and plant them there. They will live in their own place and not be troubled anymore. The wicked will no longer oppress them as they used to do
¹¹ever since I appointed judges to rule my people Israel. So I will give you peace with all your enemies. I, the LORD, tell you that I will make a house for you.
¹²" 'When the time comes for you to lie down in death with your ancestors, I will send one of your descendants, [one] who will come from you. I will establish his kingdom.
¹³He will build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.
¹⁴I will be his Father, and he will be my Son. If he sins, I will punish him with a rod and with blows inflicted by people
- 2 Samuel 7:1-14 GOD'S WORD Translation

analice107:
You see my phone don go spell vary for emsef wey nah carry I type. It's well oo.

When am on the phone, the same thing happens, the phone starts flexing like say the jayro get a mind of its own, but I literally slap it on the head the moment it tries second guessing and changing what I've originally typed. I always give it a close marking to check it pulling a fast one on me.

analice107:
Make him vary go. Na MrPresident1 him be.

MrPresident1 is just harmlessly sporting with you.

analice107:
You don swim finish?

Yep. Drying up and about leaving.
They close at six.

analice107:
No sir MrPresident1. I don't read fake Bible. I have Four hard copies, different translations and 3 soft copies. So am not reading one translation.
Honey, Mary and Joseph Jeaus' earthly parents were poor. That they were from the lineage of David didn't automatically make them rich.

And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,

And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.

You think Joseph and Mary were wealthy people yet Nathaniel would ask "Can any thing good come out of Nazareth?"

And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?
John:7:15

Amplified Bible John 7:15 The Jews were astonished. They said, How is it that this Man has learning [is so versed in the sacred Scriptures and in theology] when He has never studied?

Jesus was of noble birth, yet he couldn't read?
I don't want to banter with my President. So, I'll bow out here.

Ha bow out ke.
O pari, you don come deflate the brother's growing tabernacle tent now, sorry about the pun

MrPresident1:
Yeparipa , bikini? Do you have 'moveable assets' , me sef I want to come and swim

Every one is blessed with moveable assets or the other

MrPresident1:
The descriptions of Solomon's temple was even more elaborate, they are all pictures, there was no free standing structure called tabernacle of congregation or temple of God.

You must build this Tabernacle and its furnishings exactly according to the pattern I will show you
- Exodus 25:9 NLT

Let's stick with the tabernacle shall we.
Leave out the temple Solomon built because David was refused to build it due to the Hittite's blood on his hands

The ''Tabernacle of the congregation'' and if loosely translated it is the '' tent of meeting''
aka the ''tabernacle of the testimony''
aka the ''house of the Lord'
aka a ''sanctuary'' is a physical structure and symbolic one or figurative one too

The Israelites gathered their to worship God etc hence the coinage the Tabernacle of Congregation.

It was a free standing structure brah, which is even every aspect of its make-up is symbolic

Stop that Oshogbo weed or is it bath salts? LOL

MrPresident1:
Will you be wearing a bikini?

Moses called his city ( word loosely used) tabernacle of the congregation because it is not the place chosen by God to be His habitation. Solomon called his own city the Temple because God chose the place and him as its builder.

if you check out the dimensions of the tabernacle and the dimensions of the temple, they both seemed so small, the point being that they were only just figurative pictorial presentations, there was no free standing physical structure called the tabernacle of the congregation or the temple of God.

Yeah something like a bikini
You seem to ignore what is in Exodus 26:1-10 and 30

MrPresident1:
Muttleylaff, analice107, Scholar8200,

Take note of the subtle use of language in the verses above, the usage of 'his' rather than 'its' buttresses the point that these are just figurative presentations of actual men who have been assigned different duties in the Tabernacle of the congregation (which itself is a city)

You see yurself now, too much eisegesis is bad for the health
#1: The ''Tabernacle of the congregation'' is not a city
#2: The Israelites never had a city in their 40 years of wandering in the wilderness
They certainly were a huge lot of humans in temporary settlements
but never in cities, as in where cities, are permanent human settlements

MrPresident1:
Moses' city in the wilderness was called the Tabernacle of the congregation because it was not promised to him that he would build the temple

SMH. What?!
Moses' city in the wilderness was NOT called the Tabernacle of the congregation
The glorified tent Moses built in the wilderness is what was called the ''Tabernacle of the congregation''
if loosely translated it is the '' tent of meeting''
aka the ''tabernacle of the testimony''
aka the ''house of the Lord'
aka a ''sanctuary''

MrPresident1:
and God had not chosen a place as yet at that time to put His name Deuteronomy 16:2,6, so Moses' own capital/temple is called the Tabernacle of the congregation

The tabernacle, simply is, a glorified tent, and that exactly, is what is it
It is a temporary, movable and typically light constructed dwelling, made of cloth, supported by poles and stretched tight by strings attached to pegs driven into the ground
It has nothing to do with God chosing a place as yet or at any time
but rather it was a place for the divine presence of God and/or His Shekinah glory to come rest and abide among the Israelites

The congregation part in ''Tabernacle of the congregation'' means called out (i.e. ekklesia in greek where we get church in English from)
or meeting of called out people at the tent

#Am popping out, going swimming... brb

MrPresident1:
I was only trying to educate Muttleylaff ni jare so I thought you could learn from it.
She introduced a point and I was trying to create a chasm between her and ignorance by explaining the meaning of 'furniture' in Moses' tabernacle of congregation and 'vessels' in Solomon' temple.

This thread's subplot like any good movie was introduced by Muttleylaff

The main plot of the thread is that Jesus being a carpenter does not mean he was a literal carpenter or furniture maker,
Jesus did not go about Jerusalem knocking wood together, the point of his carpentry is that he was of the noblest birth.

The Carpenter of the gods.

https://i57.tinypic.com/34sp9j4.gif
Educate MuttleyLaff if Mark 6:3 was said as a nobility compliment or said with derision
MrPresident1, is it noble, the military, calling the common man, bloody civilian?

analice107:
Oh, thank God you are that Nathan's voice ready to pronounce judgement against this MrPresident1.

MrPresident1. Do you need a Firstlady ?
You would need to do it like Isaac and Rebecca or Jacob and Rachel. You get my drift?

Abi ooo. Chop knuckle for the bolded above

MrPresident1:
David is waiting for Bathsheba , so that Solomon can come on board

analice107:
LOlzzz. Gerrarahia

You dey mind the joker
MrPresident1 knows he doesn't want to imitate David,
not David as a role model, when it is in a capacity of a David-Bathsheba illicit love affair,
because Nathan is in the wings waiting to condemn such an illicit liaison and pronounce the punishment for it

TrajansKong:
85% of the Nigerian population will never EVER begin to comprehend or accept this.

We take every single word in the Bible as literally true. Without question.

For us talking snakes

It weren't even talking snakes, as it was a talking serpent. Singular and not plural

TrajansKong:
talking donkeys

Again this was a one off occurrence of a singular donkey, whose mouth or tongue was opened, and not talking donkeys

TrajansKong:
and women turning into pillars of salt have greater reality and more genuine presence and meaning than our immediate biological families.

Not again, only one woman turned into a pillar of salt now. Question to ask, is why pillar, why salt, why is a pillar of salt combo used for Lot's wife

Goshen360:
The highlights above is your major problem with your friend, Obadiah777 and your group

That isn't the major problem, the problem is the world of eisegesis that him and the other alter egos unneedingly dabble into

Goshen360:
Do not go beyond what's written!

Sometimes silence or what is not written speaks volumes when unraveled

MrPresident1:
You and Muttleylaff are exchanging likes

Who exchanging likes epp?
I am yet to like on this thread but now will start from taking a cue from you

analice107:
Am cool. Yea I had a cold day.

Ali Sina calls the Bible "Gold Mine". The deeper you dick, the richer you get.

MrPresident1:
Sweery, I am not understanding o

analice107:
My phone get him own mind. When I type wetin I want, him go bring out wetin him want. if I no check again, na em be say, another word na em I go post.
For example I want dig, em go bring out dick. I don tire for the phone. I ve tried readjusting the autocorrect, for where.
Now, what I was trying to say is, the Bible is a very deep book. Like a "Gold Mine" you don't find gold in the surface, it's deep underneath the ground. That's how the Bible is. Dig deep, then you get the Rhema.

Dont mind MrPresident1 ojaare with his imagination doing overdrive
Everyone's else brain autocorrected dick to dig, though the eyes read dick, the brain processed it as dig
I read the post and auto read dig and NOT dick

Scholar8200:
At a time when it made no difference per se! Else, Joseph wouldnt need to flee from place to place when Herod etc did what they did. Besides,

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
carpenter.
From the base of timoria; an artificer (as producer of fabrics), i.e. (specially), a craftsman in wood -- carpenter.

Hence carpenter has NOTHING to do with nobility at that time! Besides, your claims to best of education is debunked by this:

And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?

John 7:15

ROTBLOL welcome to MrPresident1's wuru wuru to the answer eisegesis

MrPresident1:
So you think Jesus was a 'Furniture' abi?

Jeremiah 24:1
The LORD shewed me, and, behold, two baskets of figs were set before the temple of the LORD, after that Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon had carried away captive Jeconiah the son of Jehoiakim king of Judah, and the princes of Judah, with the carpenters and smiths, from Jerusalem, and had brought them to Babylon.

The Bible did not mean that Joseph was a carpenter in the sense of today’s meaning of the word. In ancient times, the word ‘carpenter’ was used to describe the elite, the learned and wise men, the kings and princes of ancient Israel, the highest levels of nobility. The word ‘Carpenter’ as used in the Bible in Greek means ‘Tekton’ and ‘Tekton’ means ‘Artisan’ or ‘Craftsman’, or ‘Mason’.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tekt%C5%8Dn

1And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2See, I have called by name Bezaleel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah:
3And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,
4To devise cunning works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass,
5And in cutting of stones, to set them, and in carving of timber, to work in all manner of workmanship.
6And I, behold, I have given with him Aholiab, the son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan: and in the hearts of all that are wise hearted I have put wisdom, that they may make all that I have commanded thee;
7The tabernacle of the congregation, and the ark of the testimony, and the mercy seat that is thereupon, and all the furniture of the tabernacle,
8And the table and his furniture, and the pure candlestick with all his furniture, and the altar of incense,
9And the altar of burnt offering with all his furniture, and the laver and his foot,
10And the cloths of service, and the holy garments for Aaron the priest, and the garments of his sons, to minister in the priest's office
- Exodus 31:1-10 KJ

Whether carpenter or mason, Jesus as a matter of fact, is a craftsman
Jesus would be just as Bezaleel and Oholiab, who were craftsmen skilled in in the cutting of stones for settings and in the carving of wood

MuttleyLaff:
No, they all don't say the same thing.
Every other translation said SHARE, except for TLB that you selected, that it only, said, PAYING THEM
OK then if it can be in cash or in kind
Well, OP was trying to say take notice of 1 Corinthians 9:18, and that the congregation with their hard earned money shouldn't be sustaining and maintaining the opulent living and lifestyle of the preacher
What then is my pay?
It is the opportunity to preach the Good News without charging anyone.
That's why I never demand my rights when I preach the Good News.
- 1 Corinthians 9:18 NLT

petra1:
That makes it clear he had rights . He just denied himself . It's his personal decision.
If you embark on a fast that doesn't mean everyone should give up their food.

You dont seem to see the wood for the money trees.
The overall picture here, is not about rights but is about the opportunity to preach the Good News without charging anyone

The opportunity to preach the Good News without charging anyone is primary
The right is secondary, and when the right is secondary, it limits abuse of power

What is my reward then?
Verily that, when I preach the gospel,
I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel
- 1 Corinthians 9:18 King James Bible

Teempakguy:
yeah, right. You that you are hot Christian, have you sold your properties and given them to the poor Are you not going to lay yourself treasures in heaven?

This is a careless remark centering on Matthew 19:21, done without enough thought given on who the text was addressed to.

Do not yearn for others, verses or texts intended to another

Mind you, if you dont know, the bible is a book of division,
and you're expected to carefully study it,
so as to rightly divide the word of truth therein covet
and know who verses or texts are talking about and/or referring to

Matthew 19:21 is not a panacea for all Christians or believers

Teempakguy:
And while you're at that, I hope you've never stumbled upon toolz and/or Tonto dike's bumbum on fp. Otherwise gouge out your eyes asap.

SMH. Does hyperbole mean anything to you.

Seun:
I'm glad that most Christians are wise enough to ignore the parts of the bible that are simply not practical

Out of curiosity, and what are your examples of the parts of the bible that are simply not practical and so should be ignored?

Seun:
Lukewarm Christians are the best.

How can you say lukewarm Christians are the best, when God says He'll happily spit out lukewarm Christians?