₦airaland Forum

[quote author=A-40]Lol dammit man! How can anyone even opine that Chelsea does not have the best squad in the league? At the start of the season the general assumption was that Chelsea would run away with the title! They were everyone's favorite! I can't believe Nateevs is even giving that excuse[/quote]Lawdamercy. What about my point of view was so difficult to understand? It wasn't even an excuse for JM, it was, if anything, an attack.
I thought I explained that.

GustavoFring: I call B.S.

Lukaku is a big brute. You dont play the ball to his feet.

You pass the ball into space or plant it on his forehead and watch him do the bizniss

Case study 1

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-DxU2EtBN3xo/UknTVDFU4aI/AAAAAAAAAR8/1KXrJFbECYw/w500-h278-no/15.gif

Case study 2
https://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2813243/carragher-lukaku.gif

Case study 3

[img]http://www.abload.de/img/untitled-219gbev.gif[/img]


Your talk about Lukaku not having close control or whatever is pure BS. Play to his strengths, and he has shown time and time again that he will deliver.

You dont force Lukaku to play your team's way, You force your team to play Lukaku's way. Ask Steve Clark or Martinez

I don't understand. What is BS about what I said? Lukaku does not have the technique to play in tight spaces. Fact!
Team don't set up against Chelsea as they do West Brom and Everton. Fact!


If you want to saying put the ball in the air as an alternative pattern of play for the sake of Lukaku, then fair enough. That is an entirely different suggested which does not mean that he suddenly has the technique to wiggle out of tight spaces.

Do you not think Jose already thought about this? Putting the ball in the air? Playing to his strengths?

coogar: torres is the best striker at chelsea. i can't wait for lukaku to return. you would see his general output would reduce again like most strikers have struggled at the bridge. every chelsea midfielder is a goalscorer so the goals get shared like groundnuts.

I am not even joining in the 'Lukaku should not have gone' debate. Lukaku does not possess the technique to play in tight spaces and as teams set up against Chelsea very deep and tight, he could struggle and find quickly that space he finds adjusting his position while at Everton and West Brom is simply non-existent.

The demands of playing for Chelsea is a different pot of soup.

dayokanu: I cant say Arsenal first 13 is better than Chelseas.

Hazard, mata Oscar are as good as what others have in AM. The Chelsea benhc is better than what any team have currently as evident in the Carling Cup.

I am not saying that either. My initial point is that Jose's excellence in the past has been masked/enhanced by the strength of he squad he had. That this is the first time he is working with a squad that is not clearly the best in the league and that he needs to show he is that good by taking a not so good squad and making them champions.

Katsumoto: In other words, coaches such as Pardew, Martinez, Pochettino are as good if not better than Mourinho since they do not have top professionals in their squads let alone in every spot. You are a good coach if you can work wonders with a small budget. Having the best team where all the great professionals know what they are doing doesn't make you a great coach.

Chelsea has top professionals in every spot. It is the way Chelsea is set up that doesn't work for their strikers. Demba Ba was good at Newcastle poor at Chelsea. Torres was good at Liverpool and became poor at Chelsea. Sturridge was poor at Chelsea became good at Liverpool. Lukaka had no chance at Chelsea but his playing well at Everton.

And Chelsea should not be losing to Stoke, Everton and Newcastle based on the squad strength.

I am either doing a very bad job at getting you to understand me or you are out-rightly refusing to get me. Every single thing you have here is my exact point of view. Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing?

Katsumoto: Which team has the best squad in the league?

Arsenal has been relying on one striker since the league started and they are top of the league.

Who decided to sigh Willian even though he had an abundance of midfielders in Willian's position? Who decided to bench Chelsea's most proficient assist giver? Who decided to send out Lukaku and buy Etoo?

Coaches at Manure, Chelsea, Man city have the funds to buy players and blame the players/squad when results don't go their way but one should remember that it is also human beings who manage cash less clubs like Hull, Stoke, Crystal Palace, etc. Mourinho and Pellegrini have no excuses. It appears Mourinho can only be a good coach if he has a good squad and everyone else has a shitty squad.

Kindly do not misintepret the context of my post as the point of the squad strength was not made as an excuse.


Talking about squad strength, City have the best squad. Arsenal have a very first 13 or there about. Chelsea have very good, very young inexperienced players in key positions. A situation Jose is not accustomed to managing. Usually, his teams are filled with top professionals in every spot.

He is only as usual trying to deflect from the main issue which is that it is down to him that we are not top of the league. Unless he saying that this top striker will need to score 4 goals every game to prevent us losing 3-2, he is not facing the challenges. If we did not lose to Sunderland and Stoke, we will be top of the league. End of story.


This the very first time he has had to work with a squad that clearly isn't the best in the league. And he needs to show what he is made of.

PhysicsQED: Well, I don't think I can say much more than I've already said as far as what my views are about the other aspects of lyricism, so we should probably just let the issue rest. It's been an interesting discussion though.

Interesting indeed.

PhysicsQED: It's like you're reading what I'm writing, but not really taking it in. I think that you pretty much misunderstood my post if you're bringing up Erick Sermon or Styles P in this discussion. Anyway, to keep it short and simple (I don't think there's a point to a detailed response, since it seems we're just inclined to disagree about this stuff), I don't really buy the "technical" arguments/claims you guys are making because they seem to be ignoring a lot of things.

I am open to your points. What do you think my points are ignoring?

PhysicsQED: I guess I'll just have to disagree with both you and coogar. We're obviously looking at this from different angles. I'll think I'll just say what I said to coogar earlier - multisyllabic rhyming is not the be-all and end-all of lyricism in rap. There are other aspects which you guys are seriously downplaying when making comparisons.

It is. That's the essence of rap. It's basis of Rap. The art of rhyming. And then evolved into the art of content, flow and technical delivery. (Take content only and no one tops the likes of KRS One, Rakim, Pac, Nas. We can close up and all go home.)

Time went on and MCs try to undo one another. Style and delivery thereafter became the yardstick. The more complex the technical delivery, the harder to compose. And it follows that the harder to compose the more in-depth the rapper thinks and works and hence, in my opinion, the more astute the rapper is, as long as it isn't at the expense of rich lyrical content. (Shigidi migidi figidi like Idris Abdul Kareem )



You can make a case for as many rappers as you want. I for one love Erick Sermon. No one in the game also compares in my eyes to Style P and the way his rap is structured. However this is not a discussion about those we like and their style but how their style out-does one another and how seemingly difficult it might be to do what they do. As much as I have respect for many MCs, no one does it like Em. No one holds a rhyme scheme longer than Em and then do it over and over again with unconventional rhyming patterns.

There's no use posting 2-line multies from rap artist who don't remember to do it for the next five tracks.

I don't understand. He cannot improve Eto'o but bought him regardless. He can improve Lukaku but let him go.

PhysicsQED: I still don't see why you guys think Eminem is doing something that other rappers haven't already been doing or aren't capable of doing. Yeah, he is one the best in terms of rhyming complexity when he's rapping at his best (but not really one of the best overall in terms of actual music, in my opinion), but you guys make it seem as if he's the best ever and make it seem like there's some enormous gulf between him and other lyrical rappers.

The reason I keep on about Em is because I have listened over and over again to everything you talked about and still nothing compares to what Em brings to the game.

Don't get me wrong, Em aside I am a hardcore fan of Rakim, Nas, Big Pun, Mos Def, Redman, DMX, Jadakiss to name a few. To me, these rappers put a lot into their writing and totally understand what technical rap is all about. More so, for me, Jadakiss and Big Pun. I have spent hours in the past arguing with my hommies on why I think Jadakiss' extended syllable rap style is the best in the game. Not because he did it on one track but he did 'consistently' . .

He would begin with a short sentence and the attempt to cram in as many words as possible into the next line in the rhyme scheme. Like lines from Jada's got a gun - Kiss Tha Game Goodbye.



"I got gun with 200 shots"
"I'm the reason you moved your family to a whole new other block".

Don't even bother wearin a vest
Cuz these ain't the kinda slugs that's gon' get lodged in your chest




Or a classic double entendre from DXL Hard White on DMX's 'And then there was X'

Bet you never even felt the heat
til I put the M1 next to your waves and melt the grease



This is not what he did on only a single track. I will fetch lines from every single verse on every single track you find Jada.






Re: Big Pun

I used to call my favourite rapper before Em. In my opinion he took the internal rhymes and multies to a whole new level.


I was the luckiest man on Earth, my wisdom was worth
any purse but had a curse that hurt worse than givin birth
My first verse explains some of the game she was playin
I'm blamin myself cause in my wealth was her pain would haven
Behavin like a money hungry hooker, funny how the money took her



Internal rhyming on a level I had never seen before. Big Pun was dope. Not just that though, he had a unique style where he always began a new line with the last rhyme but always went on to a new rhyme scheme in that new line. . . . consistently.

For instance.


I was the luckiest man on Earth, my wisdom was worth
any purse but had a curse that hurt worse than givin birth
My first verse explains some of the game she was playin#


The first words of the last line flows with the rhyme scheme. . and then he moves to a new one in that same line.


My first verse explains some of the game she was playin
I'm blamin myself cause in my wealth was her pain would haven
Behavin like a money hungry hooker, funny how the money took her


First word of last line in the rhyme scheme and then moves on to a new rhyme scheme.


Behavin like a money hungry hooker, funny how the money took her
from a average honey to a stunning looker


And he continues all through the track. Consistently.
To me, that was a revolution.




What's my point? I study styles and I can analyse for hours how Rappers put their art together and the relative styles they use sparsely and consistently. Those up for consideration as rap gods are those who do what they do 'consistently'. I respect that you know what you are talking about but even as consistent as those guys we've mentioned might be, no single one is consistent in diverse styles.

This is where Em rises above the lot. Em is the only rapper alive that modified and redefined styles album after album and managed to stay relevant.

KGR is largely monosyllabic. There's tons of materials to verify this. Even as reverenced as Pun is in my eyes, he is also largely mono-syllabic. I don't pick one track to show you how Em destroys the mic, it's there on youtube. Em takes a rhyme scheme and follows through for 16 bars with heavily laden multies and internal rhymes. I showed you last week how Em redefines standards by rhyming with the uncoventional.

Me? I'm a product of Rakim,
Lakim Shabazz, 2Pac N.W.A,
Cube, Hey Doc, Ren Yella, Eazy, thank you they got slim


You can see it yourself. There's no need to begin analysing. I am still waiting for a just one rap line from someone else who is astutely technical to find all the rhymes in those words.

Well. .

You get this all the time. Most of those who believe Em is not god don't have any reasons. Most just say it's my opinion.

coogar: Now who's the king of these rude ludicrous lucrative lyrics?
Who could inherit the title, put the youth in hysterics?
Using his music to steer it sharing his views and his merits
But there's a huge interference, they're saying, "You shouldn't hear it."
Maybe it's hatred I spew, maybe it's food for the spirit
Maybe it's beautiful music I made for you to just cherish

Mate you didn't do all the justice to Em's immaculate spits in Renegade.

Let me enhance it.

Cause see they call me a menace; and if the shoe fits I'll wear it
But if it don't, then y'all'll swallow the truth grin and bear it
Now who's these king of these rude ludicrous lucrative lyrics
Who could inherit the title, put the youth in hysterics
using his music steer it . . sharin his views in *his marriage
But there's a huge interference - they're sayin you shouldn't hear it
Maybe it's hatred I spew, maybe it's food for the spirit
Maybe it's beautiful music I made for you to just cherish
But I'm debated disputed hated and viewed in Americ a

as a motherfuckin drug addict - like you didn't experiment?
Now now, that's when you start to stare at who's in the mirror

and see yourself as a kid again, and you get *embarrased
And I got nothin to do but make you look stupid as parents
You fuckin do-gooders - too bad you couldn't do good at marriage!
(Ha ha!) And do you have any clue what I had to do to get here I don't
think you do so stay tuned and keep your ears glued to the ster eo


* modified pronunciation for ryhme. You have to listen to get it.



Let someone show me any rapper from yore who had such technicality in one verse. Don't just say he's not a rap god, tell us why he's not.

Amphibious ko. Abeg. Make people no re-write history. JM actually experimented 4-1-4-1 and 4-4-2 during his first era at Chelsea. He was smart enough to find out that 4-3-3 made sense and then it became the formation he was successful with. Not the other way round.

hahahaha - internal rhyming is half the job done. what about the polysyllables? the ones that run for about 5-6 sentences & give the listener an eargasm? then again, another thing eminem does better is how he bends & rhyme words that shouldn't even rhyme on paper. this techniques were nonexistent before him.

Exactly. Like:

Me? I'm a product of Rakim
Lakim Shabazz, 2Pac N.W.A Cube, hey, Doc, Ren
Yella, Eazy, thank you, they got Slim




It's revolutionary. This does not rhyme on paper. . . but em finds a rhyme in them. I've put the main rhyme in bold black and the internal rhymes in red. It takesa higher level of rap intelligence to make this up.

You cannot make up the rhymes by looking at the lyrics without listening to the rap. That's the artistry the Em conveys.

FBS: Do we all agree that Scolari was a waste of time and resources? That AVB was a huge mistake. These people came and did close to nothing for Chelsea yet, most gave them time and all sorts of explanations and excuses.
Rafa came and did nothing exceptional (didn't see any tactical megedefegede) and dare I say we played some of our best football under RdM even while operating in Gear 2 mode. Granted he messed up and failed against the "BIG" boys but the trio of Hazard, Mata and Oscar were always having the "lesser" teams for lunch until the Manchester fiasco. Heck we constantly saw our full-backs (Cole and Ivanovic) operating as strikers. Not just because the main striker was a failure but also because that was how the team was set up.

Make no mistake for I sometimes get frustrated (even recently) with JM but could this be what I'd call over-expectation? It may help to view him as a "new" manager trying to solve the puzzle called Chelsea. We all assumed that we will win the league easily, be strong defensively because of the JM factor but even the man himself is not settled yet on his first team. This I know.
And hey, there is nothing wrong for Hazard to defend irrespective of opposition (Ronado, Bale and other top players do this. No biggie there)

This is not the first time Basel dey form for us neither is it the first time Sunderland would give us some tough time even at the Bridge. Did I hear you say Asamoah Gyan? The Pelegrini nateevs is talking got beat by the same JM side and Citeh lost scandalously to lower teams.
With the Citeh team and the "brilliant" manager they have, this should never have happened but it is happening. Pelegrini lost to Sunderland.

So folks relax. Why don't/can't we grade him next season (provided the RA effect does not come into play) when he would have had ample time to blend/sort things out. As for this season, winning the league or any trophy will be nothing but a bonus for the hard work.

Bro don't get me wrong. I am not canvassing for Pelegrini or anything like that. Neither am I calling for the head of JM. I tried to give much balance to my thoughts by expressing the likes and dislikes of what I have seen so far. Perhaps I did not do a good job in my delivery.

My main state of mind really is "let's see how it goes" However, inside this remains the facts and those facts are the things I am stating.

nitlad: Sweeping statements all round - not even leaving room for "what ifs". Ok o, issorai, we shall see. . .




This is one of the reasons why I think Mourinho is goat. It's just absurd.





This is also an extreme statement in every sense of it. You are literally postulating that this team is not capable of achieving great things or at least make giant strides going forward, hence "The only way around it is to allow him go out in the winter and buy his own players. This is
unnecessary and expensive but
hey, this the only way JM comes
out of this looking good."

Nope. Actually I am not postulating that the team is incapable of great things. I do not think a part of my post shows that. If anything, it states that JM will not get the best of the ability of the team because of the way he wants to play. To achieve this way he desires to play, he will have to go into the market and tweak the current team. That's a fact.

Hence the "This is the only way he comes out of this looking good" . . .



I do not think that is extreme. I am only explaining what I see on the evidence of Mata and KDB unable to get a game.

coogar: 2pac like many of the golden age rappers are monosyllabic rhymers - that's just too easy to write. it's like writing for a R-n-B song...with perfect or family rhymes ending their couplettes.

xxxxxxxxxxblock
xxxxxxxxxxclock

xxxxxxxxxxxbrick
xxxxxxxxxxxcreek

eminem & few others have pushed their pens even further to spray the rhymes everywhere. mosaic/internal rhymes. if you write songs now like 2pac & kool g rap did in the past, you would be laughed at - it doesn't matter how rich the content of your songs are.

Absolutely. Mono syllabic rhymes.
I have known em to modify phrasal delivery for the sake of a rhyme.
Em spits 60-70 bars on the last verse of Rap God. Immense ability, artistry, rap intelligence and delivery beyond rappers' comprehension.

I think we need to begin to take lyrics and the techniques apart on here to really pass on the message. Then again, if you have to do that to pass the message, you are talking to the wrong audience.

Greatest verse of all times. The song starts at 1.59. Just forward, you haven't missed anything.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV2ssT8lzj8

My point of view aligns with Gustavo although not as extreme. I believe Mourinho is in a state of confusion about what style to implement. JM is not a coach of players who love to put the ball on the ground. His attacking tactics are counter-attacking based. Unfortunately, we have a group of players who are craft-masters and seemingly the type of players you would not find in a JM assembled team.

I don't believe we have not seen anything from him yet. The intensity he has brought to the team is clear and the tactical flexibility to sit back and defend should we encounter a better opposition is welcome. What I do not agree with is the desire to play counter attacking football against every team. I cannot see any sense in Hazard tracking back to mark wingers of Crystal Palace when CP themselves should be bothered about not leaving their half because of the threat of Hazard. That will never appease me.

Also, JM has no idea how to coach possession football. He is not that flexible. He knows only one way to play - counter attack. This is embarrassingly evident when you see vastly inferior Basel come to SB and totally play us off the park. We could not string 10 passes together at a time even though our players are made to play like that. Instead what we get is Mata not able to get a game even against Basel.

If Pellegrini was our manager, you would see by now the change in play. This way, players like KDB, Schurlle would have played more games. I do not like the fact that players know that their place on the team will never be based on their attacking input but their defensive display.

I like the fact that players know that with Mourinho, you cannot be guaranteed a start. However this does not explain how Ivanovic gets a game time after time even though he makes mistake after mistake.

I believe there's room for improvement. I only fear that JM's unwillingness to play possession based football against the bottom half teams will wear out the few players who can play counter attacking football. This might become a massive problem in the business end of the season when the main players are tired and the subs have not played more than handful and are not sharp enough to keep the standards.


The only way around it is to allow him go out in the winter and buy his own players. This is unnecessary and expensive but hey, this the only way JM comes out of this looking good.

FreeGlobe: Eminem is definitely tops in his area. [b]You have to Rate rappers based on Storytelling, Lyricism, Rhyme, Flow, battle rap, syllable, Wordpetc [/b]lay to know who is tops in a particular area. However I don't know about "Rap God". I only know about the GOAT- Pac!Eminent is in my top 5 of all time though

It might be controversial but I refuse to see how Tupac is regarded as GOAT if those attributes qualify one. Storytelling, Lyricism Tupac will come very close. However, rhymes, word play, flow, battle rap, rhyme scheme, rhyme intelligence, metaphorical play, extended metaphorical play, abeg Tupac will not come close.

I fail to find any references that talk about the latter techniques and exemplifies Tupac. When you think about those latter techniques though, you think Em.

My boy Hazard coming into his own. Dude is on the verge of stepping up. He ran the show A to Z.
Easily MOTM.


On the other hand, the disorganisation in defence has entered a new level. Good thing David Luiz is not around.

jerrymania: you guys keep on talking about artistry not minding the fact that the said artistry and lyrics are messing up your brains and reasoning. Dont crucify me yet oh, i know that the rhyme of words is pleasing to the ear but does it stop there guys? dont you listen deep down and hear what they say? when i say tupac stood for a cause, that was outside his music and not a cause for cosmetic fame like donating to charity or endorsements or money but creating a movement/party to fight oppression back then. even his family today is still harassed because they think they still have ties to the black panther.

Mate keep off the love for Tupac. Don't try to exonerate one rapper over another. Did you ever listen to "hit em up" ?
Don't be making rappers feel sanctimonious. All rappers talk rubbish. End of.

Standing for a cause has got nothing to do with ability. Tupac stood for a cause and that's what propelled much of his fame. In technicality and ability on the mic, mate I am rating the likes of Jadakiss above him. And I listened to a ton of Tupac.

Em is a rap god.

United's realistic new target is top four. It will be interesting to see how United reacts to the hiring of Moyes if these sort of results continue. How bad could things get?

Man U fans be like I can look.

jerrymania: guys who listened to eminem in their teens have outgrown him. if you are in your late twenties and early thirties still listening to eminem better go check yourself. its still the teens that calls him rap god. he used to be my favorite when i was like 15-20something but he doesnt make good music anymore now that i'm older. and taking his style into another dimension, a spiritually self aware MAN should forgo eminem, and grow his taste in music.his fb wall picture shows his texas horn salute like the horn of the devil, who would adore him, except the ignorant fellows. please grown up men should talk about something else not eminem, leave him for the growing up teenagers. But there is just one dude i think i cant outgrow, tupac amaru shakur, he stood for a cause i bet eminem would never even dream of fighting for.

Standing and fighting for a cause have got absolutely nothing to do with sheer ability and artistry which many so-called MCs do not possess in quantities that Eminem does.

How the mighty have fallen. It's sad. But a part of me thinks, phuck it. welcome to the real world fellas.

Rap God. End of.

GustavoFring: This guy is still infinitely better than any other midfielder at my beloved SB

https://i.imgur.com/u9DqZrE.gif

See 1st time pass!

No single one comes close. If you had a to make gifs of every pass he made, there will be no space on NL's servers for them.

I missed this good news weeks ago. Bertrand Traore signed.

http://www.chelseafc.com/news-article/article/3518290/title/traore-contract-agreed

Through balls that defy convention.

dayokanu: The debate is if Nateevs would play for Germany which he cant because he is inferior to anyone there. That does not mean he wouldnt play for this Chelsea especially with their dire strikers

Mata, Hazard Oscar are good players but would they play for Spain? I doubt

I am sure no one is debating that Nateevs will play for Germany.

Re: Sturridge. In your words, he does not have a developed football brain yet. That criticism was leveled at his technical capacity to grasp football rather than his goal to game ratio.

Your criticism actually seemed to suggest that even if there wasn't any German striker that scored more goals than Danny did, you still wouldn't want him playing for Germany.




What did you think those who criticised him at Chelsea were looking at? Goals or decision making?