₦airaland Forum

coogar: grant was terry's slip away from winning the champions league - unless you can prove it was grant's tactical approach that made terry slip, he is as good as rdm if not better. he ran united close in the premier league(title was decided on the last day) and he also played extra time in the final......miles better than finishing 6th, living off the back of avb that qualified chelsea from the group stage and losing intentionally in the premier league and still getting outplayed in munich!

In addendum to what you have said, Dayo is creating a scenario with the Avram Grant that defeats his own logic.
If Drogba had slipped and we lost the CL, would that have been the difference between RDM's tactical genius and stoopidity.

dayokanu: What did Avram Grant win to be called a Genius? Can you enlighten me Maybe i didnt watch TV on the day Avram Grant won

You claimed that opions are divided on RDM which isnt a new thing in coaching Opinions are divided on almost all coaches in the world

Ok. Great then. Since that is the case, I presume you can understand why I lean on the side of "yet to be convinced" with respect to RDM's achievement.

Just like you pointed out the reasons why some believe those elite managers are not as good as they are thought to be, I reserve the right to believe that camping 11 players in your half, whilst still conceding 90 shots at goal over the 3 final games is by no means a measure of tactical ingenuity and only something more positive, inventive and attacking can actually propel him to the realm of the elite.

The point will remain the same until RDM wins something else.

dayokanu: Jose Mourinho polarises pundits till now many ppl believe he is a great coach and many believe he is an opportunist who spends fortune to win

Arsene Wenger polarises pundits still many think he is a brilliant manager and many believe he is a failure who cant win a continental trophy

Pep Guordiola polarises pundits still, Many think he is a briliant coach and many think he was fortumante to have the best set players from a working system

Which coach doesnt polarise pundits? The only incontrovertible measure is what has been won. RDM has been inducted into the elite group of coaches who have won the CL

So what's the objective of this post? That I can go ahead and call Avram Grant a genius since some people think other things about JM?
I do not understand the premise of your response.

dayokanu: Dont you think a coach who won the CL a tropy that eluded Jose Mourinho, Claudio Ranieri, Avram Grant, Guus Hindick, Felipe Scolari Carlo Ancelotti at the same Chelsea.

Go and see how Greeks celebrate Otto Rehaggel who won an unlikely Euro Cup for them

This is where you miss the point. Your trolling gets in the way of rational analysis.
Who says RDM should not be celebrated? Who says RDM should not have hero and legend status?


Does that then mean he is as astute as Jose Muorinho, Claudio Ranieri or Gus Hiddink?
Can you confidently say that?


To put things in perspective, Avram Grant was one penalty kick away from winning the UCL.
What would you have thought about Avram Grant had he done so? Hero? Tactical Genius?

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The Avram Grant scenario is exactly what I am trying to point out. That the circumstances under RDM won the CL polarizes the views of pundits still. For that reason, he will need to go beyond this and win something in exquisite style for him to considered a great. Until then, the jury is still out and everything he does will be under scrutiny from a technical standpoint, hero status aside.

How difficult is it to understand this?

Ibime: Leave haters abeg. Out of pure hatred a loser start criticising rdm immediately after UCL final, criticise him in the first preseason friendly and every week since. Then ask rdm to grow some balls and drop his most hated player of all time.

I'm sure any sane person would incontrovertibly think he wanted rdm to drop the greatest loser in the team aka Torres only to find out it is his weekly attack on one of the most successful contributors in Chelsea history who he has been attacking on regular basis since 5 years ago when I met the guy. Nobody told rdm to grow some balls and drop that useless shekpe keeper cos we love our manager and we understand the constraints he works under. The fact that dude hate his manager who gave us everything and hate his most influential midfielder of recent era yet constantly love the biggest flop in the history of Chelsea plus the worst manager since the mid 90s is proof that whom the gods want to kill, they first make mad.

Dude. Your attempt at attaining cheap fame is highly commended.
Find us one post of mine that clearly shows that I hate RDM. If you cannot find one, shut the phuck up and desist from spewing lies.

This will clearly miss your fat eyes.

For the record, I have never said RDM is a bad manager. The worst I have gone is that, he has been lucky and he needs to find more than luck if he wants to succeed more. Also I have mentioned time and again that the jury is still out.

However you cannot deal with criticism. To criticise your loved ones is a demonstration of hatred.. I will post it again and again until it fries your brain.


You won't see the fat bootlicker quoting my post that resemble this

nateevs: Using Oscar's hustling abilities was a brilliant tactical move by RDM.

Dudes will go on a futile campaign in a desperate attempt to type. How can I hate RDM when I clearly typed the above?




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I don't have time for numpties who are clearly orchestrating a way out for RDM in every single scenario. Something you accused me of doing when AVB was here and still do till date.

We love our manager and we understand the constraints he works under.

RDM is right as rain, doing his thing cool-headedly and managing an extremely unbalanced squad that Emenalo created.

Last week - can't find the quote - he told us RDM does want to drop Torres because he wants to prove that he is useless to Emenalo.


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I do not need to campaign for Torres to be dropped. RDM is manager. If he has the balls, he should drop Torres.
I don't hold any allegiance to any player. I just want to do well. If it means selling Torres, who gives a phuck?
I bloody do not care.

Players comes and go, Chelsea remains! That's been my principle. You think I love Torres beyond criticism?

You are going to burst your heart over your keyboard dude. By showing balls, RDM has to drop a 34 year old. I am sorry you don't like it. No top team in the PL plays with a 34 year old for 90mins in every single game.

Should he replace with Luiz, I don't know. It's an option. Would it work? I have no phucking idea. None of us knew Mikel could ever play as a DM.

And how does one sell that to the players in training? "Hey Lamps and Mikel, this monday morning, we are going to be working on Luiz in central midfield cos you guys are too slow. And sorry Romeu, I know you've been waiting for your turn but you are too slow as well. Oh and Ramires, you cant pass the ball, so this morning, I am going to rip up the script and work on playing Luiz in midfield."

You are more stoopid than I thought. In short you are telling us that RDM has not the balls to tell his players what options there could be for fear of the fact that it doesn't sound right? What exactly is your argument?

Eeediot. . How did he sell it to players in training that Ramires needs to play on the right? How did he sell it in training that in-experienced Bertrand will play ahead of Malouda in the UCL final?

I hope you know that in Brazil's last game, Menezes played Ramires in CM. You obviously know more and that's why you are a manager with a 6 figure salary. How does Menezes manage it and RDM can't?


For the record, I have never said RDM is a bad manager. The worst I have gone is that, he has been lucky and he needs to find more than luck if he wants to succeed more. Also I have mentioned time and again that the jury is still out. However, your stick gets strong at the mention of your favourites who can do all wrong without any manner of criticism. Do I give a toss? You bet I don't.

If you like, you can burst an artery you fat shameless bootlicker.

The revisionists are in the building. "RDM being a manager who doesn't give anything away" on the back of half a season's success - the nature of which still polarizes the views of many fans and pundits. Dudes are already tagging it "undisputed tactical achievement"


Like a fellow Chelsea fan says, RDM is holding back on showing some balls because now he has a job to lose as opposed to when he had one to win.


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The excitement we are getting from the likes of Hazard and Oscar should not take away the fact that our last 3 games have been 1 loss and 2 draws. It's very easy to slip into period of poor results.

dayokanu: How about backing your own arguments with FACTS.

everyone ese on the field was to blame even those not on the field except Failure Torres

What do you want me to blame Torres for?

Ibime: The boy Oscar really locked down pirlo. Outhustled him and rendered him less of a factor. Apart from the goals his work ethic was encouraging. Always like attacking midfielders that hustle. Hazard is hustling small small as well but Mata needs to stop acting scared

Using Oscar's hustling abilities was a brilliant tactical move by RDM.
Also the whole team was trying to press up the pitch and win balls.
I don't have the stats but I think the match must have one of the highest number of collective interceptions
There are a lot of positives to take from the game.


The negatives, Ramires and still no Moses, Marin or Sturridge start.

How you guys have the patience to argue with Dayo beats my imagination.

dayokanu: Any thoughts for the Shekpe Keeper or who is to blame this time around?

Bertrand, Ramirez, Lampard Mikel, defence, Bokoharam, fans, Govt, Communism all were at fault except Failure Torres

You are just a troll. That's all I can say.

coogar: torres - the furthest man on the pitch for chelsea should be pressing whilst hazard/mata who are behind torres should be bystanders? i am sure torres is responsible for the mayhem in syria @ this rate!

I just ignored that.

Disappointing draw. We could easily have won the game. I did not see a single good decision made by Ramires.
Why this ninja continues to get picked I have no idea.

Lampard got lost for the first goal. Running at the wrong side of the player and taking eternity to turn and attempt a block.


Mikel loses the ball and instead of dashing up to close down the player, he was basically walking allowing another through pass into the area.



What the hell is this Ramires plays or Bertrand plays all about?
What do Sturridge and Moses have to do to get a game in front of Ramires and Bertrand?

Mikel and Terry mistake.

Mata and Hazard are so on the same wavelength, it's ridiculous.

Bertrand in for Ramires. Same set up. One defensive player always on the right or the left.
Do we have to always play like this?


I suppose Hazard moves to the right now.

Andre Uweh: Mata and David Luiz have tried so unsuccessfully at those kicks. I wonder who will score from free kicks for us.

I'm sure I have seen Hazard and Oscar score free kicks.

Ref's having a shocker.

Free kicks are not all about just striking the ball aimlessly.
When was the last time we scored one like that?

Why can't RDM mandate that Lamps never takes free kicks any more?

Graeme Souness saying Oscar did not mean that turn.
What's he on about?

How you no go play the boy? Inclusion justified.

New thread.

". . .and signs that some of the players he'd picked for his squad, like Fernando Llorente, might be exhausted. . . "

I am supposed to ignore the context in which the statement was composed and swallow it hook, ljne and sinker as VDB's reason for not playing Llorente for a single minute.

What a load of codswallop.


Is this percieved tiredness by a journalist the same reason Soldado was not selected as well? This numpty is caught right in middle of proving that Llorente' s tiredness and Torres' loss of form, though suppossedly known before the tourney, is reason they didn't play in it and proving that although the situation of players was known before the Euros began, it still was not enough to take along an in-form and "a striker who wasn' t tired" .

Very stupid argument when a sensible conclusion was that Del Bosque was using Barca's false 9 tactics.

Llorente was tired.

debosky: That is where your argument falls apart - if Torres was the only CF available to VDB then your argument may be plausible - if there were other strikers available and VDB did NOT play them, then that points to a deliberate tactical decision not purely dependent on the form of any single player.

Or are you saying that Torres that was so poor was the only choice available to Del Bosque in a squad that contained Llorente and Negredo?

Don't mind them. I quite rightly pointed this out to Ibime and his cohorts during the Euros.
Llorente and Soldado had brilliant seasons. If so little faith was held in Torres, what happened to the others?

[quote author=A-40]A man that cannot even control simple passes by his teammates or beat his markers is complaining that he is not getting enough touches!
If RDM had gone gung-ho at QPR the same people that where lambasting him for not attacking woulda lambasted him for not defending! Y'all forget that Chelsea and Arsenal lost at this same ground last season[/quote]Ogebni A40, go siddon. There should be no such thing as a gung ho in a 4-2-3-1 if deployed effectively. That's why it's a 4-2-3-1. For two defensive mid-fielders to fall back into a flat four if full backs are attacking or creating a solid six-player defensive shield when full backs are not.

Play Romeu and Mikel in the 2 in front the back four. If Romeu and Mikel will be too immobile, play Luiz and Mikel. (One very quick and strong in tackles, the other strong and shields well - both very good passers of the ball). Then Ivanovic, Cahill, Terry, Cole in defence. That's as rock solid as it can be. No gung ho shiiit!

That way, you have all the freedom for your attacking players. A mobile player in the hole that has the pace to transition play between defence and attack - Hazard and then unleash the pace and unpredictable dribbling ability of Marin, Sturridge and Moses on the flanks and the attacking full backs in Azpilicueta and Cole in turns. We may not win the league but we'll be pissy scary to play against. Torres or not.

However, it's not going to happen. The moment the 34-year old has to play. The balance of the team is altered and everything else has to be adjusted to cope with the frailties.

Babamide: I think Chelsea's problem is defensive. RDM does not trust his full backs to do a good job so he plays Bertrand and Ramirez as support on the flanks. It worked for him last season cos we had a striker who needed only one chance to score goals. So they just sat back to defend and wait for Drogba's miracle moment. It is virtually impossible for torres or any other striker on the radar now to fill Drogba's shoes, well maybe with the exception of Ibrahimovic. In any case, the 4-2-3-1 system is suppose to allow 2 defensive midfielders cover for the defense but that is impossible to achieve with a 34years old Lampard and a slow (maybe even older) Mikel. So in essence we are playing 4 defenders helped by 2 defensive midfielders and another 2 artificial full backs in ramirez and bertrand. How do we expect only mata, hazard and torres to do all the attacking.
RDM needs to be reminded that the best for of defence is to attack. Our defenders are nothing to write home about when they meet top opposition. The best we can do is to throw in all attacking options so as to possess the ball more and score more goals can we can concede.

Common sense. Absolute common sense. I applaud you for the post.
The only part of your post I disagree with the "problem with the full backs".

In actual fact, the problem RDM has is getting the two wide forward players to provide defensive cover in a counter-attack.
For that reason, he's started every single game this season with either a pseudo forward in Ramires or a full blown defender in Bertrand on either of the flanks. So when Ramires plays from the right, Hazard and Mata interchange on the left and in the hole. When Bertrand plays on the left, Hazard and Mata play interchangeably on the right.

As much as this gives you defensive cover, it robs you of a considerable amount of forward creativity. However, because of the presence of Mata, Hazard found space and exerted influence on the game. Hence all the assists - Forward Unpredictability. This balance is still tolerable.

However, on Saturday, RDM took it to a brand new level by introducing four full backs in a game against forking QPR. Bertrand on the left, Ramires (no better than a surging full back) on the right. That left Hazard as the only player on the pitch from midfield with any sort of attacking instinct. It was easy for QPR. Double up on Hazard and you negate any forward threat.

Easy as. Then silly apologists come out from their holes expecting Torres to manufacture a Drogba-esque goal. It's not going to happen.

RDM must row some forking balls. Go all out in attack and mandate them to fall back and defend. Play Hazard Oscar Moses in the midfield 3 or Mata Oscar Sturridge, Marin Hazard Moses, Moses Hazard Sturridge. The options are flipping countless. Grow some balls.

However it's not going to happen. RDM doesn't have the balls to sit Lamps down. Lamps will not maintain positional discipline in 4-2-3-1 and you need a Bertrand or Ramires to create balance in the void left in defensive midfield. RDM's doing it the other way round. It will not work. Torres or not. I don't have a problem if Lamps starts a fuss about not playing. . Worst case he'll leave. I have a problem when the likes of Oscar, Marin, Sturridge, McEachran are threatening to leave because of lack of playing time. Respect the past, embrace the future.

Ibime: ^^^Ninja, you are the fool here!!!

The RDM you are talking about is already a legend after taking over from your beloved flop AVB and achieving the unfeasible!

Just like RDM told Torres he is not taking a penalty in UCL final, RDM will do the inevitable and ditch Torres after proving to the club heirarchy that the WEAKLING experiment has failed and shekpe keeper is irredeemable. If the weakling likes, he can storm down the tunnel. A lot more of that to come.

RDM's status at Chelsea is not under question even by a mental lilliput like yourself.

The question is why is Torres still flopping 3 seasons in, and you are deflecting issues with nonsense yarns about RDM.

We were fooled into these arguments when Shevchenko was here. . . until he went to AC Milan and failed to score a single goal in one full season!

I thought these guys would have run out of excuses by now but they keep inventing new ones. Now some are even blaming Hazard.

I was right few months ago when I labelled Torres "the man of unending excuses"!

Empty talk. If we continue to turn out abysmal play against teams, RDM will follow his predecessors.
Roman will not spend #90m in one season, #225m over 2 seasons and a half for RDM to be playing defenders against QPR.

Siddon dere dey blame Torres.

Ibime: When Chamhakh wasnt scoring, Arsenal finished fourth and struggled. Chamhakh was ditched half a season into his experiment. How come Torres is still here in his third season?



Nigga STFU!

The last game against Atletico when all the skillas were on the pitch, what did they create for Torres? Nothing!

RDM better play likes of Bertrand and Ramires against Barca if not na 4-0 them go chop.

Marin is unfit, Moses just arrived and Oscar is being bedded in. RDM was overreacting to the last time he put pure attacking players on the pitch and they left the defence exposed. Although I agree Studge should have started. . . . at the expense of WEAKLING!


Nigga if you dont like the legend called RDM, go kill yourself! Every 5 minutes, you have something slick to say about RDM, even immediately after victorious UCL final, yet your mumu self kept praising AVB and Scolari even when we score only one goal every three games.




The statement you made about hold up play is the reason why Wenger will never give Walcott a chance to play upfront for Arsenal regardless of Walcott's protestations.

These eediots think a striker's job is just to run through and convert. Is he Michael Owen?

Most of the reason Torres never gets chances is Torres himself.

A striker is the boomerang off which every midfield starts its play. You give the striker the ball, you get it back, then you play the through pass.

Give the ball to Torres, the kay-legged BABY GIRAFFE with no balance will not even get to the ball before someone brush him off. Even if he gets the ball, he wont balance himself and play nonsense.

If the opposition are choc-a-bloc, you play the ball wide and fling in a cross. Has anyone ever seen Torres attacking a cross for Chelsea?

The guy is a forking WEAKLING!!! No footie strength, no balance, little brains!

All the best strikers in the world possess strength. Zlatan Ibrahimovic is the strongest of them all. Falcao, Messi and Aguero are strong and well balanced, rarely knocked off the ball and so are barrel-chested guys like Tevez and Rooney. RVP is same size as Torres yet knows how to protect the ball and keep it in packed area. How come Chelsea is the only big club that play with a WEAKLING upfront?

Look at Arsenal first goal yesterday, how Podolski hustled two guys to set up Gibbs. If Torres ever does something like that, I will die! Thats how teams create chances! At no point during a build up will a player not be physically challenged. Everytime Torres is physically challenged, OUR PLAY BREAKS DOWN! Like 4llerbuntu said "THE OPPOSITION IS NOT HERE TO SELL KUNU"!!

Chelsea will not win the league with weakling like Torres upfront. I hope some magans remember their BOOKMARK. Bookmark it again!!!

You are a dunce. If RDM is all that, why can't he see all these points about Torres you are raising?
Is he under durress to play Torres?

You have no idea what you are talking about.
The likes of Michu, Javi Garcia, Santi Carzola have walked into their sides and playing.
You are making excuses for RDM for not playing Oscar. . We bought him for forking #25m.

What about Moses who's been playing in the PL for 2 straight seasons? Does Moses need bedding in too? Why can't he play Sturridge in CF. . or RW or LW?
Abi Sturridge needs bedding in too?

So he plays Bertrand and Ramires against the likes of Barcelona and Bayern to prevent us from conceding 4-0, QPR nko? Ai they are Barcelona too?
How the Bleep can you justify setting up defensively against QPR? Swansea spanked them 5-0 in their own ground and we go and set up defensively and you are lecturing me about legends? Puhlease man!






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Who were the killas against Atletico? Come back and tell us the starting lineup.
And if you don't know, there is a difference between having skillful players and working out a method to get them to fuse.

Na Torres cause the lethargic play against Atletico and now against forking lowly rated QPR abi?
Keeping brushing over the main issue and blaming Torres.
Chelsea will not win the league with Torres blah blah blah. . . . Na only u fit see this abi? RDM cannot see this right?


Well done.

HNIC: thanks coogar, I have been saying this to many of my chelsea friends for years...Thought with the likes of Oscar,Mata, Hazard,Marin,Moses etc arriving and the departure of 'Jambody masters' like Drogba and Essien, we will see some exciting 'tiki-takaish' football played at the Bridge...But Alas, it's still the same thing.Mark my words guys, Torres can't flourish in that kind of set up.

With common sense like this coming from opposition fans, I can't state my point any further.
The football we play is still light years away from the supposed quality in the team.

chic2pimp: Why only yesterday? How about the last three games or even last season? Who was scoring then? Torres?
Torres at the peak of his powers at liverpool was if not the best in the top 2-3 strikers in the world but he is nowhere near that at present.
I wonder why you did put this much effort into defending Chamakh?

Jeeeez! How difficult is it to understand what the guy is saying?
He stated clearly that he isn't excusing Torres' poor performance.

However, he raises the all important fact of Chelsea's absmal display and Torres is not the cause of it.
He states that if Torres isn't scoring, why isn't anyone else?

When Chamakh was not scoring, it didn't prevent everyone else from standing out, contributing and scoring goals.
Why isn't the same happening at Chelsea? That's the question Debo is aking.

dayokanu: ^^ How many 90mins game has Ramires and Bertrand got this season?

Meanwhile we conveniently sidestep the DUD who has been a monumental flop ever since he stepped into CHelsea

Initially the excuse was that he wasnt getting regular minutes this season in 6 games he has played 530min. an average of 88mins per game and he has continued to be horrible.

Earlier we were told his teammates like Drogba, Kalou, Anelka, Lukaku were the reason he flopped those ones have left and he is still DUD.

We have been told that its the coaches in Chelsea that were his problems. Torres has played under 3 different coaches he still continues to be a flop.

We were told its the lack of creative players. This season he has played with some of the most creative set of players in Hazard and Mata in attack yet they still dont understand him.

He complained that the noise level in London was one of his reason for poor performance, They have reduced the noise in London and even started admitting Deaf and dumb ppl to Stamford bridge yet he continues to be DUD

So what is the new excuse? Approach games defensively? Dude are you serious? You mean because Ronaldo didnt start as CB means the team is defensive?

GTFOH jare

Dude abeg carry your stuooopid analysis go front.
Are you trying to tell me how best we can play?

We started in midfield and attack with

Mikel Lampard
Ramires Hazard Bertrand
Torres


How defensive do you want to get? Bertrand is a left back and Ramires is as offensive as Ashley Cole. That leaves you with Hazard and Torres 'only' playing in the attacking third with anything near the instincts of an offensive player and you think it's a coincidence that we created so few chances? What's even more annoying is that it's the exact line up you would see if we were to play Barcelona tomorrow. The same setup against phucking QPR who were a minute from getting relegated and who lost 0-5 to Swansea, on the same ground, only a few weeks ago. . . This is inspite of spending #90m in the summer and having Marin, Oscar, Moses, Sturridge in the squad.

However as always, your insatiable desire to slag Torres always impedes your ability to make rational analysis. You resort to beer parlour talk. Asking me if we were defensive against QPR. Look at the figures Coogar's giving you. You excuse the obvious and making stoopid comment to prove a point.