₦airaland Forum

It was answered by Dayo in post #12.

The fact is that they all speak variation of the same language but they view themselves as indivuals states e.g Ijasha, Ekiti, Igbajo, Oyo, Egba etc.

Now in this age, they have all been brought together under te same umbrella of Yorubas

The ancient Yoruba sphere of influence bordered in the north with the Gwarris, the Idomas and come around in circle to the Igbos in the East and down to the Kalabris and the Ishons in the South.

All the stuff being discussed on this thread is well known to enquiring oyibos and foreigners who also documented them. Its we Africans who like being ignorant of our history and get ultra sensitive at every question

Tpia, no doubt! Ask people for their grandfather name and they post a google link for you. People don't know who they are any more. Thank God for Google, Wikipedia and NAIRALAND ONLINE COLLEGE

Dayo,

Thanks for that link, a very clear and linguistic approach to explain the root of the name. The Cushites trace their roots to Cush (Nimrod's father) and they have a religion in Oromo called "Waaqeffannaa", under that are deities that they generally refer to as IRREECHA. Compare that to ORISHA. They also have a town called Oromiyaa.

Is it possible they misspell Orion too? All the cultures that have the staff (obelisk) form one and consistent belief system.

The benefit here is that people who may previously not know will at least now have a fact that school curricullum will more than likely never teach.

Welcome to online learning at NAIRALAND COLLEGE

Hahahaha, Oh my God. . . you people are funny, my rib cage is aching from laughter

Osisi, I thought Karma was your in-law. Why you both go at each other so much? Karma, kool down o, sheath the blade abeg.

Not really. The guards of the queen/secret service men are at least capable of sleeping with women/wives. These abobakas are castrated

If they had been castrated a palace guard would not have had carnal appetitte for Princess DI and expressed his desire. At the rate of prostate cancer in America, half of the SS are collateral eunuchs as it is.

lmao, Bgees, you are right, this is expanding past the original post of Awori and Egun and gaining momentum about origin of Lamurudu and Biblical reference; very interesting!

Did you knw about the story of Nimrod? How did you compare the name Nimrod to Lamurudu
How would you pronounce Nimrod in Yoruba? SOmething close to Lamurudu right

Dayo, consider this. . .

What language is Nimrod's name written in? Here is why I asked.


ENGLISH/Hebrew ARABIC

Joseph = Yussuff
David = Dawud
Mary/Marianne = Maryam
Sheba = Bilqis
John = Yahya
Michael = Mikail
Benjamin = Binyamin
Solomon = Sulaiman

is it possible that. . .

Nimrod = Marud ?


Also, you quoted that Cush begat Nimrod. Well, I don't know if Nimrod is the same person as Lamarudu but I know Lamurudu was a Cushite from Axum and knowing that the Cushites descended from Ham, I am led to believe that we are speaking of same person, hunter, farmer, fisherman, or whatever he is.

Well, who were the Cushites?

1.
The Cushites, descending from Ham built Axum in Ethiopia, where I mentioned Lamarudu emigrated from. The Cushites included an ethnic group called OROMO and they spoke the oromo language also called oromiffa. There is a obelisk in the courtyard of the Ooni of Ife's spiritual shrine and it was said to have been there since the time of Oranmiyan and is called the staff of Oranmiyan. There are certain things I won't reveal about the staff but I will say this, that staff is the connecting dot between Ife and Axum.

2.
To point to another reference, when a person is obedient and humble our elders will praise them as "Omoluabi". Correctly stated, it is "Omonuabi" or "Omo Nua bi" or 'Omo Noah bi"; meaning the child begotten of Noah but more symbolically to denote the obedient character as a trait from Noah's lineage. But why would idol worshippers who have gods like Shango, Ogun, Oya, Yemoja and so on know of Noah and reverence him? I am yet to find another culture in sub-saharan Africa that does that beside the Yorubas. In sub-saharan Africa, you had to read the Bible or the Quran to know about Noah and this must have either happened when Islam was introduced by Dan Fodio and the Arab traders or when the European missionaries invaded and brought missionaries with them to educate us on Christianity. Yorubas had been using the term "Omoluabi" long before new religions arrived so they had knowledge of Noah from other source. That source was genealogy and spiritual cults.

3.
The rituals of Ifa and that of Islam is parallel. I won't say some things here in reference to Ifa other than to say that when you look at Hajj pilgrimage and the sacrifice of the lamb on Mount Arafat, it is exactly the same ritual steps in Ifa initiation and we knew Ifa before Islam was introduced in Yorubaland. So where is the connection from? It had to date back to shrine rituals in the Arab customs and would give credence to the fact that Yorubas are in fact Ya Arabs. Just remember that it was a total different Arab back then than the one you have today.

You see what I'm saying, they don't know that sweet part of you. mmmmuah! back at cha . .

Tpia, I heard about such in some parts of Asia too. Never knew they had them in Yorubaland sha. Lol talk about a way to prevent a scandal in the palace.

Secret Service that guard American President, the Guards at Buckingham palace. . . in practice these are all "abobakus".
Sworn to lay their lives down for the throne and protect the Crown!

At least, in certain part of Igbo land, the people showed humanistic instinct by keeping them alive. In Yoruba land and many other parts of Nigeria, they were sacrificed to the gods of the land. Recently in Oyo state, when an Oba’s palace was engulfed in fire among the objects discovered were numerous instruments for human sacrifice. It is a practice being conducted in Yoruba land till today.

As recently as 1897, the Bini kingdom was littered with human bodies used in sacrifices to the gods of land hoping it will ward off attack by British. Oba Kosoko of Eko (Lagos) was known for heavily involved in human sacrifices, a practices being conducted by all the Obas in Yoruba land till today.

The difference remains that certain part of Igbo land was not callous as Yoruba people who sacrificed human beings to the deities.

Dede,

Nice try!  Yoruba enslaved people of other tribes, not its own people and the ancient tradition of burying the slaves with the King or using them for sacrificial rituals, abhoring as it sounds today, was a symbol of state power back then.   Mayan, Pharao, Yoruba, Songhay, etc. . . they all had the practice.
So to respond to your allegation, no, we did not enslave our own people, we enslaved people of foreign blood.  

The concept is practiced in a different form today with democracy and open market system - you embrace immigration and subject the immigrants to low skill and low paying jobs so that your own people can move up in social ladder and hold the most lucratic jobs and improved value and sense of entitlement.  You protect your people against social injustice and threat and make foreigners serve the need of your people by leavingthem exposed to injustice and crimes. Isn't this why America is the super power it is today?  Same reason that those ancient empires were feared and reverenced back in their days.  Same goal, different approach!

Kosoko was one of the most powerful Obas in Yoruba land. His power was so vast both in military and political strength that even the British Empire was convinced that they could not win against his propaganda and ended up agreeing to a truce with him.  On one account when he returned to Lagos from exile in Epe and did not threaten war the British were flabbergasted and to prolong a peaceful resettlement they rewarded him with a new palace but took caution to ensure that he was separated from his warriors.  They located his palace in Ereko across from the missionary post and relocated his warriors in a settlement that is today known as Epetedo and built a palace for his war general (Oshodi) as well.  In case you must know, Kosoko's warriors were of Nupe tribe (Tapa).  Oshodi was a tapa and this is why they have Igunnu masquerade in Epetedo, in fact there are still families there today that speak Tapa language.

Do not get the Yoruba political greatness and military might for waging wars and enslaving priosoners of war mixed up with Igbos mismanagement of its own ethnic members.   We are talking here about enslaving your own people and making them second class citizens and outcast on their own soil.  Vast difference buddy!

Make una leave my wife alone o. Karma, don't mind Aloy, you have the sweetest tongue my dear and I love the honey coat.

I see! Thanks Chine, that clarifies this further. You are looking at a melting pot basically and unless self identification occurs there is no physicall means of telling who is who; and of course provided that old Uncle in the village does not get rattled and begin to outline boundaries.

Well, thanks guys for the clarification. Oh before I leave, . . . Pres-Elect, going by the clarifications from all these insightful people do you now know who you are or do you still lack identity?

Dayo, I agree with your response.

Osisi,

The etymology of the name "Yoruba" can be traced to the Arabic or Arhamaic language. I am not too good in referencing posts, I would have referred to you the post in which I discussed your question. Let's look at Yoruba and the believed founder of the tribe, Lamurudu.

The word Yoruba was used to refer to a people that emigrated from an Arab culture. As you head North and encounter different languages its pronounciation gets closer to "Ya Arab". Ya Arab stand for the "Children of Arab" or "People of Arab" or "Descent of Arab".

The Hausas call Yoruba "Bayarabe". They call Arabs, "Balarabe" . Sometimes they will say "Yarabawa" for Yoruba and "Larabawa" for Arab. Who were the Arabs at the time of Lamurudu arriving in Ife? They were idol worshippers who believed in gods. Lamurudu brought that tradition to Ife and instituted it as the religion of the Yorubas. The Arab land covered all along the eastern edge of Africa to the horn by Somalia and into Yemen and up into what today is Saudi Arbia. Lamurudu was an Arab of Axum descent. Axum was in what is now Ethiopia. Yorubas are not the only Arabian migrants to current Nigeria. The Shuwa Arabs are too. They are found in Adamawa and Borno and they are of Sudan descent.

To explain Lamurudu (Oduduwa's father), let's look at two names; Abdul Hamid and Al Amin. When pronounced in Yoruba, the first becomes Lamidi and the second Lamina. There are people today in Yorubaland called Lamidi and Lamina and if you tell them its correctly spelled Abdul Hamid and Al Amin they will dispute it. Using this analogy, Lamurudu would be something like Al Marud. Lamurudu has no translation in Yoruba language, it is widely acknowledged that its a foreign name.

The story of Lamurudu beaing a man of Eastern origin is true. He emigrated from Ethiopia. Now did every Yoruba emigrated with him and are of Eastern origin? NO!

Aloy,

Thanks for sharing. You are the first breakthrough for me on this issue.

What amazes me is that all the topics I have seen on the subject there is a consistent claim of lack knowledge. Out of one hundred, no one knows, that gives suspicion and human nature for what it is, doubts creep in and then people begin to dig deeper for info, it leads to antagonistic views and then emotions get raw. It will be an easier conclusion for someone to say I know and I will share with you but certain aspects of this are taboos for discussion and so I am not at liberty to disclose them.

The best social fabric is held together by threads of matrimony across bloodlines and clans. The marriage of the son of one clan to the daughter of another builds truce and trust and is an invicible peacemaker against tensions and grievances that otherwise would lead to feuds in the community. I know as you have explained now that the social barriers have been torn down to the minimum, cross-blood marriage. That's the last block. Pushing against it and eroding all traces of it will eventually strengthen cooperation and trust and defuse fuedal tendencies. Something need to be done to effect that pushover and whatever it is had better be effective communication within the community and not the effective silence of don't ask, don't tell proposal suggested by some respondents here.

On the Ogboni issue, I am glad you pointed out that it is erroneous to believe they perform rituals with human sacrifice. They use blood rituals and they swear initiates to oaths using blood but humans are not sacrificed for that blood. In fact, many rituals in life are performed in blood than not.
___________________________________________

I hope your silly questions have been answered

Ah, Osisi, my sister abeg no vex now. You did very well with your follow up explanation, it clarified a lot of things. There is no doubt in what you say about old conservative traditions giving way to reformative ideas. We all know why it is that way. You and I have had conversations along tribal issues, we had heated exchange on the Biafran topic. I have very acute knowledge on historical accounts, at least the ones I am familiar with. The ones that I am not familiar with but interested in gaining knowledge on I go after intensely. Do not mistake my passion for knowledge as a front for follow up bashing on tribal grounds. I will go after an Igbo just much as I would a Yoruba or Hausa. I seek truth and I radiate truth.

On recommending solutions, it will be overbearing for me or any one with less than half-knowledge on that tradition to begin to offer solutions. I will be offended if a non Yoruba with no knowledge of Yoruba customs begin to offer solutions for how to stop parents from giving tribal marks to infant babies. The issue must be resoved within but because we all have blindsights, it helps sometimes to get the outside feedback.

Ok, now I understand. So they were more like POW's?.

No. They were not POWs. The POWs on both sides became slaves if they were commoners but exchanged on negotiated terms if they were of titled positions. Their land became colony or annex seats of military frontier like a garrison to guarantee their security against other empires like Songhay.

Even though they consider themselves non Yoruba, does the Yoruba consider them as an ally or as one of the sons of Yoruba in this modern time

In this modern time Oyo Empire is no longer in existence but the Yoruba Nation is still integral with its seven states. Anyone that cannot trace their ancestry back to one of these states is not of Yoruba tribe or nationality but can claim Yoruba citizenship on account of the accord made between Oyo and their indigene land. I should emphasize that Alaafin deposed some of these Kings and installed a Yoruba son as King over them. In those lands, it may be hard to distinguish who is Yoruba and who is not although the descendants of the Yoruba King and other helpers that migrated along with him may now be speaking Egun and unknowingly disclaiming Yoruba. Add to that the multi cutural marriages and offsprings and the Yoruba blood is greatly diluted. Nonetheless, at the higher hierarchy of society, allegiance to Yoruba is still present and very strong. This will be visible when either Alaafin of Oyo or Ooni of Ife dies and these former colonies send emissaries to pay homage as was done in thos ancient times.

MAY ALAAFIN LIVE LONG, MAY THE CROWN SUSTAIN, MAY HIS FOOT JEWELS SUSTAIN.

MAY OONI LIVE LONG, MAY THE CROWN OF ODUDUWA SUSTAIN, MAY HIS FOOT JEWELS SUSTAIN, MAY THE ANCESTORS STAND BY HIM.
____________________

Aloy,

Another great example of conquest and mixed origin is in Epetedo area of Lagos Island. I don't know, are you familiar with Island and the metro area?

I forgot to say of the Eguns. . .

Badagry (Agbadaigi) and all the way to Cotonou in Republic of Benin was the land of the Egun. Due to inter tribal wars, the Fon, Egun, Ewe and some other neighboring tribes were conquered by Oyo and were made to pay tax and homage to Alaafin. Under the Imperial power of Oyo the Eguns were guaranteed security under Yoruba sovereignty and this is how they became Yoruba citizens even though their Nationality is not Yoruba.

To clarify, consider an Irish American whose great great grandfather migrated to USA in the 1800s. That person is considered a citizen of America but on census form they will be counted as White of European ancestry or Nationality.

Lmao.

Osisi, not only are the freeborns unwilling to discuss the issues with the Osus but you are also not willing to give answers to the questions from curious outsiders.

Ask any question in NL about Yoruba customs and at minimum you will find one or few of us that will give answer to it. It's dishonest for every Igbo to say I dont know what happened, there are inconsistent accounts about it and it's best left alone and not addressed. But its funny that in 2009 the problem has not stopped and nor is there inconsistency in the way an osu is maligned by the culture and traditions of his/her own people.

Generally, what is there to fear in answering the questions?

A lot of people do not have accurate information and knowledge about their indigenous land and ethnicity. This is partly due to the syllabus of tutoring in our schools. Another problem is that children raised by parents that lacked the information themselves end up believing in propaganda and rumored information that may be contrary to their true origin.

Yoruba was a Nation comprising of seven major States and within those States you had distinct native land and dialects but all of whom are nationally Yorubas. So you have the Oyos, Egbas, Ijebus, Aworis, Ijeshas, Itsekiris, and so on and so forth. . . Unlike the Egbas and the Ijebus, the Aworis did not have adversaries and so a prominence that would have resulted from fighting a war was otherwise supressed by their fame for peaceful cohabitation with neighboring natives. Lagos Island (Erekusi or Eko) was their nativeland and they were traditionally farmers and fishermen. Idunmota, Idunshagbe, Idungaran, Idunmagbo, Iduntafa. . . these were all Awori farmlands.

The Aworis were ruled by an Olofin. The present day Idejo Chiefs in Lagos had Awori ancestry.

Pritti,

I think you asked a very valid question when you stated the following quote and I thought someone would answer it, . . .

Now, maybe the word tortue was a strong one, but I merely meant to show that to say that something is "only psychological stigma" seeks to diminish the effects the actions can have on the psyche of a person. If you are not an Osu, how do you know that it is "only a stigma" and that the stigma is minimal? Only an Osu can speak to that issue

Anyone care to answer?

So then you are saying something that was already offensive was made even more off limits by the teachings of Christianity. Is that right, are you saying that Christianity gave legitimacy to the pre-existing social condemnation?

Chine,

I don't know you enough but judging from your responses you seem more reliable and mature enough to engage on this discussion.

I can understand the consensus amongst your people to let the sleeping dog lie, hopefully this will be his everlast. The problem is this dog, like a cat, has nine lives! Avoiding to tackle a problem headon in hope that it will ultimately resolve itself is a short term remedy. It patches the issue, it does not fix the problem. I am speaking with sincerity of heart here and I am saying the same thing here that I said in a topic on reparation, that. . .in any social interaction where liberty of life is denied then psychological damage is done. Sometimes, depending on the length of the problem the damage is irreversible.

It's not just the victim that is hurt, the victimizer end up carrying a bagage of emotional guilt on their conscience as well and both of them need healing. The healing occurs when they encounter one another in a face to face honest and peaceful negotiation for truce, peace, healing, forgiveness and correction. A peaceful negotiation does not happen with silent avoidance. You don't wantto dodge the issue, you want to act in a position of leadership and call the conference and get a talk going.

I admit, it will be difficult for the free born Igbos to initiate a reconciliation move, although that action is most desirable and it becomes obvious that in trying to save face, your people have accepted that doing nothing will erase the wrongdoing and so it's best left alone. It will take brave young generation of free borns to confront their elders and get the blessing to initiate a reconciliation. Using the reconciliation approach will take years of negotiation back and forth between the freeborns and the osus but gradually the years will wear away the pain and injury of their soul and refresh within it the memory of your humility. That's what you want - the transformation from within, a re-awakening, a re-birth in which future generations of Igbos are not demarcated along blood lines of freeborn and osu ancestry. What you do not want is to dodge reconciliation and commit future generations of osu babies to carry that stigma and the pain in their soul to the graves.

Chine, someone like you have the brilliance and wisdom to lead that call. Nothing can be beyond your reach except what you fail to reach for. Give it a try! Start a forum or topic for it on the web, get the chatter going. Or find couple of people with your mindset and level of judgement and see whatyou can do to uplift spirits. I won't say the same of Pres-Elect, he does not yet know who he is much more what who he is not and asking him to facilitate healing is like asking Idi Amin to lead United Nations.

On a side note, I still want to know if a deceased osu carries that status to grave or does the stigmate terminate when life ends, do they have designated graveyards?

there have been more threads for this osu thing in nairaland than for any other topic. who proposes a perfect plan? who?

Pres,

which one are you, victimizer or victimized?

Obama is beginning to sound like Bush when this wahala started. "If the bill is not passed at so and so time, we will be faced with dire consequences." Using fear to manipulate people and promote govt spending that isn't sure of solving the problems

Tayo,

If you recall, GM and Chrysler said back in fourth quarter 08 that if they were not rescued before end of 08 they would surely go bellyup. Well, Chrysler did not get any bailout in 08 and it survived to see 09. So how did it survive, what happened? Left alone, most of these institutions that have been bailed out will eventually devise a way out of their own demise and whichever one could not do so is probably deserving to go belly up anyway and should rightly be a good riddance.

Yep! Give it to the victimized and point them to the location of those who made it difficult for them to live as free born.

Are you one of the victimizers? Let me know your location.

Thanks for that link.

I sympathize but I am not apologetic for sounding tribal here, heck, the fact that, intra-Igbo, you will even discriminate along blood line gives me immunity to attack you without fear of any remorse. We are talking here about those who unjustly and ruthlessly condemned men and women of certain traits within their ethnic group and the children and fore children of those persons to treatments undignified and subhuman and forced it upon them as a birthright to remain in that state of mind and fate without hope of redemption but only in death. Speaking of death. . . do the osus have separate graveyards too or can they be buried anywhere regardless of status? There is a victim and there is a victimizer. Shame on those who had the power and the might to uplift their brothers and sisters but instead trodded upon their natural given rights to liberties and independent spirit.

I have heard of osu before but never paid it attention because I thought it was a cult in Igboland. Every tribe have their cults but I am very familiar with Yoruba and Hausa tribes and neither one of those have a discrimination based on birthrights where people are forbidden to interact or cross breed beyond status boundaries. I am shocked!

Now, so there has to be a far deeper problem, for every paragraph written there has to be much more that is left undisclosed. To think that in 2009 a freeborn Igbo carries a curse and risks ostracisation for marrying a osu then there is a spiritual dimension to that bloodline that makes it abominable to mix blood with them. What is it?

Far worse, why should a Yoruba person, man or woman, marry an Igbo if the risk exist that he/she is marrying a cursed bloodline? As I said in the opening, I am not apologetic for my tribal tone but I sympathize with the victims. This discussion need to go in depth. I sincerely feel very sad for those in here that may be osu bloodline and please do not identify who you are, don't do it, it might come back to haunt you amongst your own ethnic people. This is like a white American saying interracial marriage between whites and blacks are forbidden and its a code violation punishable by lifelong exile for offenders.

What you both stated is true but I want to point out that we should be careful with interchanging the terms Jews and Zionist loosely for what we know to be obvious.

You said Jews are accomodated in Islamic communities. True and you can find the reason for that in the Quran. The Quran accomodates Christians and Jews but it admonishes against taking for friends those who profess Judaism and Christianity with their tongues but plot evil against you in the dark _ the hypocrites. You can identify hypocrites in all three religions. You have them in Judaism in Christianity and even in Islam.

No one can deny that an Islamic scholar (Mullah) who condemns a woman to death and had her executed simply for not covering her head is a hypocrite and has transgressed against God. Such a person or people are not fit to live amongst Muslims. This was the way of Taliban with their extremities and the reason why, long before America declared them to be enemies, Iran had condemned their regime and atrocities and was instrumental, inspite of differences with USA, in overthrowing Taliban from power and recommending Karzai to Bush. So it's not only Christians and Jews that the Quran speak against, it speaks against people like Taliban as well and even though they profess Islamic faith it is not accepted of them on account of transgression against humanity. There is another Taliban and is called Zionism.

Judaism is the religious face of the children of Israel and so while they are commonly called Jews, I just want to point to the demarcating line between a Jew and a Zionist so we can refrain from associating the atrocities of Zionism wrongly. The difference between Zionist and Taliban is Zionists do not kill their own people, they kill and transgress against other people on behalf of their own people. They infilterate social institutions and entrench semitism as the popular and mainstream brand. If you speak against any semitic interest then you are labeled as anti-semite and even if your critique was truthful your image is portrayed as distasteful and pro-Nazi, never mind that you hate Hitler and all he stood for.

I am positive that Iran, Morrocco and other Muslim countries will never accomodate Zionists or their agenda even though they respect the Jewish faith and accomodate its free practice on their soil.

Michelin,

Na you be dis? Long time no see o! Congrats on becoming moderator. Let me know if anybody make trouble for you my dear. Look in politics if you no see me then I am asleep.

Some of the people in here disowning knowledge of the osu caste are some of the self-ascribed experts in NL when the discussion is on Yoruba and Hausa customs. . . but when your own rooster come home to roost, all of a sudden no one knows, your memory fails you. You don't know the history and cannot articulate the origins of your own culture and custom. It's either the osu caste is a denigrate like the gypsies are in Europe and the shame of admitting that is a torment that you are not willing to bear and thus choosed to sacrifice your acknowledgement of agelong traditions in Igboland nonchallantly to "nobody knows". Oh wow, but you can go back hundreds of years and tell us with maps and illustrations the origin of Arab/Israeli conflict.

If ignoring the osu label will eventually sweep it away into memory, why then do you keep rescusitating Biafra, especially the violence of war. . . why not equally let Biafra rest and pass into memory? Somebody is going to tell us the osu caste and its social status in Igboland, you are not walking away easily on this one.

stimulus is all about spending. consumerism runs the US economy. . . .that is the way to create jobs. . . . .

No Kidding, I thought it was about savings!! I'm glad for your tutoring mister. Hmm. . .