₦airaland Forum

Quota system of resource distribution, whichever way you look at it does not accurately reflect true performance. You can call it what you want or use any and all sweet words to express it, the primary reason for doing the motion study to begin with is that operators recognize the need to weed out inefficiencies. Without an inspection, you may never know where your inefficiencies lie. Like it or not, if JAMB performance is independent of University admission, then the concept of quota reserve is defeated and should be eliminated. Its continued existence and expansion means that the admissions criteria set by the Uni trumps the performance result reported by JAMB.

But guess what? I'm done with the discussion! I will read and digest your response but if I never answer I want you to know that we may disagree on these ideas but I still respect your position Debo and we will talk again.

'cause unlike Jindall latching on to Bobby, Obama earlier on discarded Barry, and we can say probably his stay in Indonesia contributed to that but we won't know for sure. Plus he lived in Hawaii where twisted names are the order of the day anyway. Jindall spent his lifetime here in continental US.

The Indian factor is an interesting one. Indian lobbysists are stepping up their game and operating at same level with Israel and they do so aggressively. He has nothing to lose by not acknowledging them, at the end of the day if his popularity shoots up they will reconcile with him. Isn't his wife Indian too?

You should move to Louisiana.

[i]Negro ducks his head from airborne utensils[/i]. . .

I did not discuss merit here, Merit is, of course, the first determinant of admission at the majority of institutions. Catchment area, indigene quota and so on are secondary considerations.

I am not sure what you categorise as 'sentiments' here, but let me give some background on this matter.

1) What is the determinant of someone 'meriting' a university education? I think this has to do with setting basic standards, such as 5 credits as SSCE as minimum admission criteria (for Federal Unis anyways). JAMB had a similar system a few years ago, with the 'floor score' of 200 being the minimum to get admitted.

2) In any educational system, University education is not COMPULSORY. As a result, there will always be a limited number of university places and hence competition. Now what level of admission vs candidates can always be debated and set according to national/regional goals and data as applicable. Currently, there is a massive 'shortage' of University places compared to applicants, the reasons for which are beyond the remit of this particular discourse.

3) Universities are set up for different purposes. As you mentioned, some colleges are set up for integration, others on a strictly merit basis, others for religious affiliation. State Universities cannot be compelled to admit purely by merit - they are set up to cater for state needs first and foremost, and as a result will always have an inward bias.

4)We cannot do away with quotas and the like for now, else we will leave behind regions/zones and will have an even more lopsided distribution of candidates/graduates. Whether quotas are the best means for achieving inclusion and widespread education remains up for debate.

Our educational system is definitely not mature enough and that is why we have some of these issues.

Great! I will summarize all you have said here into one statement.

The reports of any data showcasing regional performances are at best what they are and no meaningful decisions can be made out of them because they have inherent problems that rest largely on ideological differences best managed from a central bucket.

So from that central bucket- JAMB - we are running an operation diluted by sentiments and placating the demands of regional interests alongside the need to reward the demonstration of merit performance and Best in Class. Why then should the statistical report carry weight, except to fuel more sentiments of regional divide; a political, rather than an educational interest?

This is politics. Dramatisation and the liberal use of hyperboles are the order of the day!

Wow, that response should be trademarked! This is politics! This is politics!! This is politics!!! T, goone with ya bad self

I don't know how many times it has to be repeated, . . .thousands of words go unsaid for one public statement that these people make. If you know how to listen and decode their public statements then you can hear their silent words.

In other words he's ashamed of himself. You have a man going around with a Muslim name yet mr Piyush is hiding under "bobby". Lame

I suspect his parents coined the name and it stuck. I am not sure he hides Piyush, I think he just stayed with how he was known growing up. Obama did not highlight Hussein during the campaign, although he did not deny it. Assuming my name is Kukuwenu Wazabanga, I think in America I would have adapted it to Wayne Wazanga. America is a land of romance and anything unromantic is unacceptable to these people and common Karma, you live in NY and you know what it is.


Tayo,

His story about the rescue is moving. How come no one ever talked about that until now? I had time to review him in different settings and yes, you and moonstone are correct. The guy is sophisticated. I am assuming his act on Tuesday was the script - his gestures and motion were not in synch with his message, lack lustre! Anyway, watching him. . .


Ibime,

I think you should visit Alaska and witness first hand what the Governess is doing, you will switch camp.

Your Parents obviously did a lousy job of raising you. You are a poster child of the need to promote contraception

What an excellent response from a multi-millionaire!!  BRAVO!!!

Debo,

I guess on the statistics and what they represent, the numbers are what they are, although I am still not completely confident that the numbers are accurate. Not necessary in favor of any region but moreso as a call for qualitative accounting and I would be just as passionate if they were depicting SW as tops for 6yr running. I love politics and I cherish the feeling and the excitement of the bloodbath in politics. Arguing the numbers here is useless but as I clearly stated earlier I tuned into the political ramification of the message and became a fireball. I should blame it on Ibime for being that catalyst that set me on fire. Ibime don't say anything just swallow it!

I am sure you all would agree with me, as prudence demands, that "to be the Best, Good is not enough!" So, without going back to analysing the numbers, knowing that SW is behind . . .and hey, to my SE folks, yes I admit that we are behind in these statistics and the competition is on, watch out! . . . moving forward, how do we up not just the SE or the SW or the North regions but everybody, particularly the best of brains, regardless of which region they belong?

While there will be an effect of quota distribution on admissions, there will not be ANY effect on applications. The Igbo lead in BOTH cases. Unless the Igbo states are tagged educationally disadvantaged (which they are not) this will have little effect. Explaining this quota might help you get increased accuracy, but will not affect the overall trend of the data. Once again - in this regard, there is no reason to feel that Igbos would be preferentially benefit from the quota system compared to Yorubas, rather it's the opposite:

Of all labels, educationally disadvantaged is the least I will use; they pretend they are disadvantaged. On the highlight, it makes sense with the explanation below on the distribution of state universities and I agree.

The 'Quota' you mention, (more aptly 'catchment area allocation') is a factor in University admissions, but primarily for Federal Institutions. State institutions, on the other hand have a larger preference for 'indigenes'.

Could an applicant score high on their JAMB test and still be denied admission in a Federal Uni?

Now looking at the data, there are a higher number of state universities in the South West - LASU, OSU (OOU), LAUTECH, UNAD, Osun State University amongst others. This is due to two reasons - more states in the SW (meaning more universities) and the perceived 'demand' for tertiary education in the SW. Based on the foregoing, A greater number of places are 'reserved' for SW indigenes (due to catchment area (Fed Unis) and indigene preference (State Unis)) compared to SE, YET the SW has a lower admissions rate.

How about merit? Debo, you get my point? Regardless of background, if a student merits university education, why not do away with the sentiments and begin the reconciliation? This could be our true march forward to unity. In fact, this was the reason that the Federal Govt Colleges were established to foster unity by exchanging cultural transfers.

In these figures SW is behind 6yrs running. It will continue some more years unless interventions are put in place. The intervention cannot occur without a root cause find for the problem. Some of the problems we find could become lessons learnt and adopted into policies that shares with other regions our mistakes in SW and proactively alert them in the direction to steer implementations.

Larez,

I didn't know you are still hurting from that encounter.  I hope you find healing.  I followed that link and if I put your claim into perspective then on average you were making over $1m per home contract.  Adding all that together over the years, by now you are a multi-millionaire.  Does it not bother you that someone of your financial worth is coming to NL to scope for value of residential home market in Nigeria?  With clients like Babyface, La Reid, Andre Rison. . .and then you designed homes in Country Club of the South, which is where Whitney and Bobby lived, no house in that community is less than $1m. . .but yet you have not done ground work and networked to find any reputable Nigerian contractor or home designer to partner with, instead you come to NL asking "Wll these homes sell in Nigeria and where?"

In fact with these many beautiful designs and successes you are a ready market and should be sought after.  What happened that you are talking to us here instead of Governor Fashola on his Mega city project?  Why are you not already established in Lekki?  Again, I sincerely doubt your intent, although I do not contend that you may be an architect but one has to wonder why a multi-millionaire home designer is asking NL'ers for guidance on value and market location.  Resolve these questions within yourself before you respond.

Naija girl but I will take a black foreigner in absence of Naija.

Good point Mega! On the right track there.

Stallion,

I appreciate your word yesterday and I gotta tell you Debo is a well respected guy on the forum.  His responses are measured and wise but I think there were misunderstandings yesterday in the way he perceived my argument.  I understood his position from, I think, page 1 or 2 when he listed those concerns and that's what I followed up on.  However as the discussions progressed, of course emotions got raw and things fell apart.  Beside himself, it was only Sauron and myself that understood his leanings.  

So, Debo, don't mind me and all those nonsense I said, it was unecessary and I hope you will put it behind us.  The issues I pushed were layered on the foundation of concerns you created.  
_______________________________________________

I will appeal to all those who took issues with this post and who are truly concerned about the topic to come back and review the underlying factors/impacts of these results. We are talking about education here and in passing we also mentioned census figures.  We need to come to some understanding in how these issues affect us generally as a nation.  Take your SE, SW, NE, NW, SS, NN, EE, WW, CC hat off and put on the green/white/green hat.     Everyone I pushed off the bus. . .it was just a drama, nothing more and I apologise, but please get back on the bus.  

I want to us to look at those issues that Debo itemized, each one of them lead somewhere and with a positive or negative impact.  There is really no logical reason to employ manpower and time resources to generate performance report and especially one that is conducted in a controlled study environment except to use the results for improvements and progress.  If you are looking at a 6yr data that says year over year you are the best. . .hmm, is it true that I am truly proficient or is there something else influencing that data?  Without inspecting it you will not know and if indeed there was an external influence, as opposed to true capability of efficiency, then it might be too late at a future time when the truth is revealed and efforts are put in place for recovery, the damage may be far done!  

We must ask. . .if JAMB performance is measured in terms of population density, then there is no doubt that we are looking at a quota distribution (of course we know that's what it is - it's a rhetoric!  ) and as such we end with a scenario in which qualified and brilliant students are pushed aside from university enrollment so that less qualified but represented students are allowed in.  This is the way it has been but is it the way it should continue?  I heard a lot of people in here say this is the age of the youth and it's time for the youth to take over and run the government.  Well, this is a test of our ability to prove our competence in public administration.  

What do these results mean and what improvements are inherent in them?

Pelosi got that California chronic thing going, prescription against heart palpitations. . . or is it heart throbs?

She need to stop eyeballing the President, . . .Michelle isn't afraid to put the First Lady hat down and strap the ghett. . . oops!

Wassup with my girl doing jumping jacks and punctuating President Obama's State speech with applause? That was an impressive show of energy to tell you the truth. . .does anyone have count of her up and down motion? She was so good at it she pissed a number of Repubs and her own party members off. . .as camera swept across you could see in their face that they were agrravated. Shooo, that's too much mobility for the prostate. . .but she doesn't have one so there it goes!

Hey, whatever she took for that event, I want some. .

lmao. . . Becomerich, no mind them. I am on your side, I see where you are going with the thought, most people can't see that far ahead.

;d

Piyush is not difficult to pronounce but you know judging by his background and depending on where he schooled, he will be the ready made pick for bullies. I guess Bobby was a way to "americanize" him.

Strange, did Barack not say that he was called Bobby at one time too. . .way back when he was in school? Was it Bobby or Barry?


Tayo,

What other candidates can you think of for the GOP? How do you see Gingrich? I suspect ambitious guys like Ralph Reed and Erik Prince might show face, . . .you say no?

Tayo,

Oh no, I value substance first! So you think I should listen and see him in a different settings. I see your point and you are correct, Palin was on the tube and in different settings allowing for better familiarity with her style than is the case for Bobby.

Karma,

I thought that was his real name. What's his real name? Aren't public officials sworn in using their real name to take oath of office? I suspect it may be a tongue twister. . .

Despite being flattened by steamroller

Ouch! Well, I will remember that next time. . .

Negro makes note, next time . . .throw Ibime under a steamroller.

. . .and you know we always go at each other. Don't worry one day you will get sense.

At this point, i hate Debosky and Negro Ntns.
Can you guys stop this bitching??

What!! Why?

Allright, you know it's good to listen when my action is offensive to others. So, I will yield!

Thanks Sauron for that feedback!

Not under the bus?

No, he is still my brother and I wont do that to him ever. We will fight but I will protect him. Now, I will throw Ibime and Dede under the bus!

Where is Dede? Speak up Dede, where are you? I didnt forget, I will be back to you later when I conclude this statistics issue.

lmao. . .you are a trip! I love doing political battle, but definitely not with you because when you start you don't know when to give up.

I am not predicting anything on the Democratic party side, no. I am just analysing the Jindall I saw last night on Tv and what his prospects are against candidate Palin for GOP leadership.

I believe President Obama will succeed as a President but I am wary of a lot of programs he has signed into law. I did not just start talking about it, remember I mentioned some of them in my posting on the eve of the election in November. He has excellent vision, he is an idealist and someone you called a great statesman. However, he has battles. His idealism is strong and ahead of our time. His challenge is succeefully installing that idealism in a traditionally cautious system that is distrustful of the grassroot and what it is capable of achieving given the proper empowerment. Obama brings that empowerement and I hope the grassroot will not waste it. Already word is circulating of people calculating unemployment as a better option than staying employed - they get free money from govt, health program, food. . .and free time in their hands to pursue idleness on tv and internet.

. . .hmmm, I see! Debo, do me a favor. . .don't take sound bites, I want you to review my responses in its entirety, starting from the beginning before you stick your foot down deep in your throat. Go and do that and then come back with your findings.

Meanwhile, . .

Negro throws Debo off the Bus!

what's this obsession with Palin? Out of GOP, it's Palin you think is worthy? Joke or drunk?

Wassup Pretty. . .dang, look at you! mmuah. . .

No, I won't subscribe to her at all but I am saying that so far, the word is going round that a new leader for GOP need to come out and they need to push her aside. Well, their answer I guess, is Jindall. Jindal is like the Obama version of GOP, academic wise, except that Ivy League education will not be a criteria next election cycle. The nation would have undergone far more devastating economic and financial woes than we are witnessing and people will return to the basics, to the hometown values and will seek a conservative answer. Not necessarily a conservative party but one whose ideology is aligned to traditional values. In view of that, between Jindall and Palin, you must agree that Palin will emerge as favorite. But I think more refined candidates than either of them will surface. . .there is time.

. . .and since when does asking legitimate questions translate into denial? Asking to verify the data independently is denial? I call it inspection.

Trust, but inspect!

Debo,

So then why is the topic in Politics and not in Education section?  What political relevance does JAMB performance have with Politics?  Is there a message shrouded in the charts?  Should there be a political response from the other side?   Don't you ever question my conspiracy again, serious!  

Of course you are right. But it will give you an idea of the distribution of professors back in the days when they were few. These days, every community has at least one and its no more a big deal.

Wole soyinkas nobel prize sure is a big deal because how many people have it in Nigeria or even west africa. It may not be a big deal to an average American because every state has produced at least one Nobel prize winner before. If you look at it well, it may not be a measure of academic success but it gives you an insight of how far people have gone yet in todays Nigerian academic structure. If you doubt it, go get your Nobel.

Aloy,

There are only three sections in NL that are hotbeds of discussions and if I rank them it will be (1) Religion; (2) Politics and (3) Culture.  

The lesson I take from here is that our collissions in these discussions end up providing answers and clarity to me for why Nigeria as a country has not progressed much.  We in NL and our participation, positively or negatively provide unintended feedback and I must tell you that we are lucky.  What we go through here are the same sentiments that on the ground and in a face to face encounter would escalate and lead to bloodshed.  We engage and confront and call each other out. . .our leaders do not have that privilege. . .they would love to but they can't.   I wish it was possible for them to get on the web and face each other the way we do, . . when people cannot bypass one another and are forced into an encounter they find solutions to their problems.   Academy has tuned us out from listening attentively to one another. . .we gained IQ at the expense of EQ.  Education is good but when pursued at par with adoration for human values.

For someone who didn't know what php was a few moments ago now masquerading as web guru, I am very impressed.

Admitting error is a strength, not a weakness and standing by your convinction is even a greater strength.  But, why would I expect you to know that. . .you ability to forethink is shallow and you retreated.  

The points you have stated are moot - The two are stand alone systems, completely unrelated. Secondly, one is completely commercial in outlook and is likely administered by the banks or whoever runs the scratch card program, INDEPENDENT of the remaining JAMB structure and simply remits data to JAMB at intervals

.

Stand alone or cascaded, what's the difference?.  You stated they are linked and the .org.ng runs the money and the .com (London) runs the database.  Explain your sense of security for an examination testing and performance database outsourced to an independent public domain based in London.  Did you not see the IP address?  

Once again you exhibit your ignorance - stop claiming to understand something you are clueless about.

Again, vision!  Foresight and the ability to anticipate possibilities and to ask the proper questions in a move to reconcile claims or concerns.  This is a characteristic of leadership.  You addressed vaguely the parameters in the beginning and you were not satisfied with the answers that were provided, you had doubts.  But I guess you didn't want to be perceived as ruffling feathers. . ."oh, you know I am educated and it is not polite to push further and irritate sentiments, educated people don't do that".  Bul-sh-t!!!   That's really my reason for jumping in. . .when I saw you backed off.   Go back to the beginning and see what you wrote on the first two pages, and see how I kept referencing your questions as I continued the argument.  You dissapointed, you acquiesced, you retreated, you surrendered.  Debo, please go and sit in romance section with your soft platitude!  Leave Politics to those of us on all sides, SE, SW, NE, NW, and wherever else that have the passion to endure the ego and are willing to rock each other's boat.  I know one thing, I am a good custodian and the SW boat is not going to capsize under my watch.  Call it whatyou may, conspiracy, dogma,. . .yeah, I got a boatload of it and I'm not a quitter!  

However, there is a deeper question to do with burden of proof. I only raise this because you claim to be a lawyer. I know nothing about law.

Woooo  That's new!  I have never said I am a lawyer.  In fact, I have never said what I am.  Unless the discussion is a subject matter topic everyone should have basic understanding to discuss across aspects of daily life and interests.  There is a level in statistics beyond which I will never argue with anyone - when it comes to ANoVA (Analysis of Variance), I have an idea of what it constitutes but the degree of data sequencing and array match is consuming.

@Negro,
When did Yorubas know how to spell slate?. Many professors in Nigeria pre Biafran war were igbos.  Yorubas closed in on igbos in education because during the Biafran war, igbos were out of school for at least 3 years. After thea, recuperating from war was not easy and it took another two years for them to pick up momentum again. the first professor in Nigeria is from calabar(Eyo Ita). First vice chancellors in  4 Nigeria's premier universities were igbos( UI, Unilag, UNN and  ABU). Go figure.

Vice Cancellorship is not the yardstick of measuring regional academic success.  You wouldn't use Nobel price as a yardstick of measure that Yorubas are more literary than any other ethnic tribe in Nigeria, would you?

So I take it that you doubt the figures because you figure there's no way on earth Yorubas could be lagging behind Igbos in education?

Yorubas have lacked behind Igbos before.  If you continue to do the motion study going forward you will see that the performances will shift back and forth between regions.  If you have a performance over six year period that does not shift then your operation is "out-ofprocess" and someone should be asking tough questions.  This same principle of stastical analysis is employed in six sigma for controlling operational performance and output.  JAMB is a operation and is generating performance output so it is in line to question whether or not its report of six year performance in a static position is within process or if it's out of it.  

Do you know that JAMB also publishes the actual names of the highest scorers in their exams.
Would you also doubt it if the names happen to be non Yoruba?

In fact they have awards!  I am not at individual level, I am talking about datasets.  

No one is saying Yorubas are not going to school.
You have to accept that you are not the super education tribe as many of you have been programmed to believe.
Maybe in the 1960's and 1970's but not in today's Nigeria
I've often here many of you talk about Ekiti and professors in every family or Igbos only selling spare parts in Alaba
Have you been to Mbaise where you could have 9 children and all of them medical doctors and professors in Ife,Ibadan,Lagos,Uniben and UNTH?

I know, no one is saying we are not going to school.  You have to see regional comparison as a competition; it's a push and push and that's what I am engaged doing here.  Just few days ago I asked an Igbo person here that how could your people have lost all that gains and leadership you had pre-independence and shortly afterward and yet the general discussion is focused on war, instead of reclaiming those powers through concrete and practical transformations?  I do not doubt SE strengths but I will be a bastard to surrender Yoruba response without a gallant challenge.

You have serious problems.

WHERE is the PROOF that the site was CLONED??

WHERE is the PROOF that the output is WRONG??

Naaah, Debo, you have serious issue with your sense of elitism, come down to earth for a moment, get out of the clouds.

Ponder on this for a moment and then run the steps if you want.

On the jamb.org.ng website, how would you know to transit to the jambng.com?  How many people go to a website and start clicking on logo?  Nobody!  Web pages are chained together by hypertext linkage so that if you are going from one to the other then a distinct label tells you precisely to click and you will be transferred.  On the .org.ng page, there is no such distinction of where to press to transit.  So assume that I have never visited the .com site before and I go to the .org.ng site, help guide me, Mr eloquence, to transit to my target page.  

People don't go foraying into logos for chain links, okay?  That is not in protocol with web usage.  

1. Transitions are made possible via hypertext linkage.
2. Logo is a trademark and not a link and unless there is a ulterior motive behind the goal, the linkage from .org.ng to .com would have been properly labeled and not hidden subtly in a logo.

I am highly disappointed that you will make baseless claims that have no relevance except in your warped imagination.

I am far more dissapointed in your lack of vision to perceive the prospects of "what if Negro is right"!  People have witnessed for your sense of balance, all I see is imbalance and is dissapointing.

What reasonable organisation will give you direct access to it's DATABASE holding private individual's data through the web??

None!  But when stastistical data is reported you are always given a "READ ME" page, outlining the definitions and terms.  This report lacks one.

I have explained times without number - ONE SITE jamb.org.ng is set up PRIMARILY as an online PAYMENT PORTAL for registering for PCE and UME examinations. The other is the MAIN SITE of the organisation, housing it's email access, data about the organisation and enrollment and admissions information. THERE IS NO CLONING so stop your ridiculous and frankly idiotic conspiracy theories.

The other is the .com with London address. . .and of all places to host its official website, and reports database, JAMB has chosen an open domain located in London, is that correct?  Do you not see it fit to even question the prudence in that move?  JAMB should have its own in-house servers with Nigerian IT graduates in gainful employment to manage the proprietary security of the archives.  You see, you lack vision!  True you are eloquent but you are not asking questions here.  Why outsource JAMB database to London?  

There is NOTHING premeditated in it - the registrar is a YORUBA man, the one previous to him was HAUSA - where is the stupid conspiracy theory?

Professor Adedibu Ojerinde proceeded to University of Ife for his Bachelor of Science in Physics/Maths and Master of Education ( Educational Psychology,Tests and Measurement) and Ph.D in Educational Tests and Measurement at Cornel University, Ithaca, New York, USA. Professor Adedibu Ojerinde is the first Nigerian Professor of Tests and Measurement.

That is a well qualified individual who heads JAMB, and I will rely on his data analysis, rather than the inane ramblings of a confused wannabe tribal champion. Honestly you disappoint me - you are no better than a rabble rouser in making completely unsubstantiated claims with NO EVIDENCE to back it up.

I am not questioning the head.  If the database is archived on a domain server in London, what does it matter who heads JAMB, heck, might as well put a white Briton to head it!   I am questioning reliability on the data presented to us in NL and credited to JAMB.   I don't have to back anything up, I only need to question and if the proponents believe much in what they are pushing then they will provide clear evidence for their accuracy.  I have raised enough questions around the administration of the websites and the database to justify a query of the source of the data.  You are not asking questions. . . you are acquiescing to the claim.

Like I said to Osisi, this is not a strange method of pushing agendas at all, it was done before; by Northerners!  Wake up and come out of your ivory cloud Debo.

Why is it hard for some people to accept that the SE has more students registering for JAMB and gaining admissions in Nigerian universities than the SW?
Or that the SE and SS do slightly better in test scores than the SW?
These are JAMB statistics
Anyone who thinks it's wrong ought to take it up with JAMB rather than argue blindly on nairaland.
The figures are there for all to see.

Osisi, I do not dispute that SE outperforms SW or NE outperforms SW or in any way you want to configure the comparisons.  When you have statistical data thatyou flash as evidence of that claim, then there is a different game entirely.  

Do you know how the North came to get bigger chunk of resource allocation than the SE?  Data manipulation!  The one that wins the battle is the one that can prove their claim, beyond reasonable doubt that, with a truckload of shenanigan data reports.  Who in SE stood up against North and disputed the figures?  None!  No play, no play, people thought they were backward and could not win that argument but they won it and sustained it this long.  

Anytime a Yoruba person brings data and flash it in your face with a claim you must review that claim independently and if you have suspicions please question it.  It's part of the democratic process.  

Yes, we are looking at JAMB reports that had been hijacked and manipulated before the output was displayed for users.  I am the contender of your SE data here.  No play, no play, this assertion could gain momentum and end up in policies that are infavorable to SW.  This is the time to challenge and disrepute it before it gets to that point.  Won't you agree my sister?