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Islam › Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Niyi53(op): 9:01pm On Nov 28, 2009

IbrahimB:
1. There are other verses of the Qur'an that refer to Isa's ascension:

But Allah raised (rafa'ah) him (i.e. Isa) up unto Himself. And Allah is Ever All-Powerful, All-Wise

Qur'an 4:158

This verse clearly refers to the same incident as Qur'an 5:117 i.e. Allah's foiling of the Jewish conspiracy to kill Prophet Isa (A.S).

In this verse, Allah uses rafa'ah to describe the incident. Since they refer to the same incident we can on the strength of this, say
that the tawwafa in Qur'an 5:117 meant to take up or raise and not to cause to die.

I concede: tawwafa lexically doesn't mean to raise (rafa'ah) (just as it lexically does not mean death). However within this context, we should understand it to mean Isa's (AS) ascension i.e being raised.
The word rafaha does not mean to raise one physically but spiritually. Rafaha has been used in different places in the holy quran, and i will appreciate it if you will present to me some places in the holy quran where it is used physically when refering to Allah.

Moreover, where is Allah before you say jesus is been raised?ALLAH says He is every where. In different places He says we are all going to return to him. Nobody ever thought it to be a bodily meeting. In (29:26), abraham says he is 'muhajirun' going to his Lord. It is also used in a spiritual sense. In (37:99), he also used a word 'zahibun' going. Therefore any going to God is in the spiritual sense

2. About the meaning of "tawwafa". Lexically, the word means "to take in full". This being its real meaning, its derivations wafa, ifa, and istifa are used to convey that sense.

It's oft application to death is only figurative but that does not change its actual meaning and that has not deterred it's being used to take other meanings as exemplified by Qur'an 6:60

According to ibn Taymiyyah "Al-tawaffi, in the Arabic language, means: to exact fully or take in full. It takes three forms; the first: to take in sleep; the second: to take in death; and the third: to take the soul and the body all together."

Thus Isa (A.S) was raised or taken in full (i.e. body and soul to heaven)

Reference: http://www.as-sidq.org/isa.html.
Produce a verse of the quran that support your idea.

3. Where is Isa (A.S) now?
According to the ahaadith on Miraj and Isra, Isa is presently in the 2nd Heaven and the Prophet met him and even gave a description of his physical
attributes.
Is it only jesus that was seen in the journey? If it is that he is in paradise, then it means that he is dead, because one cannot enter the paradise with this physical body. Moreover God has said that those who entered will not be made to come out, so if jesus comes out, then God will be contradicting himself.

4. Hadith and Verses indicating his 2nd Coming

Allah's Apostle said, "By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, surely (Jesus,) the son of Mary will soon descend amongst you and will judge mankind justly (as a Just Ruler)' (See Fateh Al Bari, Page 302 Vol 7)

Hadith - Sahih Bukhari 4.658, Narrated Abu Huraira, r.a.

Allah's Apostle said "How will you be when the son of Mary (i.e. Jesus) descends amongst you and he will judge people by the Law of the Qur'an and not by the law of Gospel (Fateh-ul Bari page 304 and 305 Vol 7).

The Hour will not be established until the son of Maryam (as) (i.e. ‘Isa (as)) descends amongst you as a just ruler.
(Bukhari)

And he (i.e. Isa (AS)) will be known sign for the coming of the hour.

Quran 43:61

i.e. when Isa comes the Hour is impending.
In some tradition it is 'how will you be when jesus son of mary descend among you and will be an imam from among yourselves.

5. The death of Isa (A.S)
Isa is a son of Adam and thus will die like all other mortals. His death will not be in the hands of the Jews (as indicated by the Qur'an) but naturally during his second coming:

He will destroy the Antichrist and will live on the earth for forty years and then he will die. The Muslims will pray over him. (Abu Dawud, Book 37 No. 4310)

Man only dies once, we conclude on the strength of this hadith, that he couldn't then have died at that time as that will mean dying twice.

--------------------------------
PS

This is the majority view of muslim scholars: that Isa was raised in body and spirit to the heavens and that he will die naturally on his second coming.

However the Ahmadis believe (that although he wasn't crucified) he nevertheless went on to die naturally. And more than that, married and also bore children. So I understand where you're coming from.

And Allah knows best

i a member of the ahmadiyya community

Islam › Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Niyi53(op): 8:48pm On Nov 28, 2009

IbrahimB:
1. There are other verses of the Qur'an that refer to Isa's ascension:

But Allah raised (rafa'ah) him (i.e. Isa) up unto Himself. And Allah is Ever All-Powerful, All-Wise

Qur'an 4:158

This verse clearly refers to the same incident as Qur'an 5:117 i.e. Allah's foiling of the Jewish conspiracy to kill Prophet Isa (A.S).

In this verse, Allah uses rafa'ah to describe the incident. Since they refer to the same incident we can on the strength of this, say
that the tawwafa in Qur'an 5:117 meant to take up or raise and not to cause to die.

I concede: tawwafa lexically doesn't mean to raise (rafa'ah) (just as it lexically does not mean death). However within this context, we should understand it to mean Isa's (AS) ascension i.e being raised.
The word rafaha does not mean to raise one physically but spiritually. Rafaha has been used in different places in the holy quran, and i will appreciate it if you will present to me some places in the holy quran where it is used physically when refering to Allah.

Moreover, where is Allah before you say jesus is been raised?ALLAH says He is every where. In different places He says we are all going to return to him. Nobody ever thought it to be a bodily meeting. In (29:26), abraham says he is 'muhajirun' going to his Lord. It is also used in a spiritual sense. In (37:99), he also used a word 'zahibun' going. Therefore any going to God is in the spiritual sense

2. About the meaning of "tawwafa". Lexically, the word means "to take in full". This being its real meaning, its derivations wafa, ifa, and istifa are used to convey that sense.

It's oft application to death is only figurative but that does not change its actual meaning and that has not deterred it's being used to take other meanings as exemplified by Qur'an 6:60

According to ibn Taymiyyah "Al-tawaffi, in the Arabic language, means: to exact fully or take in full. It takes three forms; the first: to take in sleep; the second: to take in death; and the third: to take the soul and the body all together."

Thus Isa (A.S) was raised or taken in full (i.e. body and soul to heaven)

Reference: http://www.as-sidq.org/isa.html.

3. Where is Isa (A.S) now?
According to the ahaadith on Miraj and Isra, Isa is presently in the 2nd Heaven and the Prophet met him and even gave a description of his physical
attributes.

4. Hadith and Verses indicating his 2nd Coming

Allah's Apostle said, "By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, surely (Jesus,) the son of Mary will soon descend amongst you and will judge mankind justly (as a Just Ruler)' (See Fateh Al Bari, Page 302 Vol 7)

Hadith - Sahih Bukhari 4.658, Narrated Abu Huraira, r.a.

Allah's Apostle said "How will you be when the son of Mary (i.e. Jesus) descends amongst you and he will judge people by the Law of the Qur'an and not by the law of Gospel (Fateh-ul Bari page 304 and 305 Vol 7).

The Hour will not be established until the son of Maryam (as) (i.e. ‘Isa (as)) descends amongst you as a just ruler.
(Bukhari)

And he (i.e. Isa (AS)) will be known sign for the coming of the hour.

Quran 43:61

i.e. when Isa comes the Hour is impending.

5. The death of Isa (A.S)
Isa is a son of Adam and thus will die like all other mortals. His death will not be in the hands of the Jews (as indicated by the Qur'an) but naturally during his second coming:

He will destroy the Antichrist and will live on the earth for forty years and then he will die. The Muslims will pray over him. (Abu Dawud, Book 37 No. 4310)

Man only dies once, we conclude on the strength of this hadith, that he couldn't then have died at that time as that will mean dying twice.

--------------------------------
PS

This is the majority view of muslim scholars: that Isa was raised in body and spirit to the heavens and that he will die naturally on his second coming.

However the Ahmadis believe (that although he wasn't crucified) he nevertheless went on to die naturally. And more than that, married and also bore children. So I understand where you're coming from.

And Allah knows best

Christianity Etc › Re: Jesus Is A Prophet Of God And Not A God : Bible by Niyi53(m): 7:12pm On Nov 28, 2009

Which book has jesus revealed for the guardiance of man, since the time you said he became a God?

Christianity Etc › Re: Jesus Is A Prophet Of God And Not A God : Bible by Niyi53(m): 7:04pm On Nov 28, 2009

@beautymc, if you would not mind, i would open a thread so that you can present the attributes that jesus is having, which qualifies him to be a God.

Christianity Etc › Re: Jesus Is A Prophet Of God And Not A God : Bible by Niyi53(m): 6:57pm On Nov 28, 2009

@beautymc, i am not surprised that there is miracle happening in the church. This does not mean that they are on the right path. (dont be fast to deny it). Do you know what Jesus said concerning it? "and many false prophets shall rise and decieve many. (matt. 24:11) in matt. 24:24, he also said "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, he it were possible, they shall decieve the very elect".
You see that performing miracle, as said by christ, can also be performed by liers. So, you should try to reflect over it if you really believe in jesus as you claim.

Islam › Re: Sallah Greetings to all Nairaland Muslim Ummah by Niyi53(m): 6:20pm On Nov 28, 2009

mccloud224:
A sallam alekum to all the bradas and sistas on the goat butchering celebrashuns.I salute you all.I also salute your leader who is currently comatose in saudi arabia.May the dead Allah you serve grant him good health and more dull leadership. . .Amiiiiinnnn! ! !

To those who didn't get killed by the floods, i hope you reserved some stones to throw at the looters of our be-cursed country.I am sure you didn't waste all your time stupidly running around some kabba stone.Your senseless trip there should have had some uses.I mean, you wouldn't be able to go there if there were no airplanes and i don't think you love Allah so much so as to trek from 9ja to mecca (even Mohammed or whoever he is wasn't that dumb).

You are all welcome.Welcome one.Welcome all! ! !

In the name of Allah, you are welcome.

ALLAH IS NOT DEAD BUT LIVING. The bible confirms that jesus did not die on the cross as you claim, but he later survived it and migrated towards the east. JESUS LATER DIED THERE AND HIS TOMB HAS BEEN DISCOVERED IN KHANYAR STREET, SIRNAGAR, KASHMIR IN INDIA.

Christianity Etc › Re: The Christians Should Provide Evidences,from The Bible, About Jesus's Death On The Cross. by Niyi53(op): 5:34pm On Nov 28, 2009

Quote author=aksat link=topic=358001.msg5010755#msg5010755 date=1259420354]
@ Niyi53, it is intresting to know that you read the Bible a lot. But as long as you are reading it to find fault against the Christains, you can never understand you will just get the literal meaning but the real meaning can be shown to people who read it to get knowledge.

The Four Gospel i.e Matt, mark,luke,John. These books are similar in some places and they are different in some cases. the book of Matthew is the gospel according to matthew and mark according to mark and so on. the fact that mark said third hour and john said sixth hour doesnt mean that the Bible is contradictory but it shows that the four gospels were not copied from each other but it was written according to the way each of them sees it.
[quote][/quote]is it what one is writting according to the way he sees we call the 'word of God'? Or is it hw God revealed to them? Pls explain to me what the word of God is.

Christianity Etc › Re: The Bible Says The Earth Is Flat While Quran Says Its Spherical, Wow by Niyi53(m): 1:01pm On Nov 28, 2009

nuclearboy:
@Niyi53:

I like your offer. Very polite, very mature, very responsible. Pride to Islam. So no problem, Sir (as long as we're not fighting or insulting each other).

To start with, please answer the questions I asked above about Koranic injunctions to show love to people of different religions and race and inclination.

I would like you to note that the story I quoted was a parable and not a real story. It is the morale behind it (that Jesus said show love to people of other persuasions) that I asked about. Provide me Koranic statements that do the same. And please don't go the "violence distraction" way by starting long treatises on the meaning of the Biblical quote. Just show direct answers. we're trying to determine if its the same "God", not because any "book" says so but because its the same message.

BTW, all your postulations about the veracity of Luke, Matthew etc are not fair. Its like the people who say Muhammad and Allah are the same. Would you like anyone to say so? Don't insult my beliefs with your 350 years idea (you were not there) and no eye witness issue when the Roman conquerors have records (not another avenue for distraction please) that stand till today

@Abuzola:

Na wah O. So you don't want us to share in your Ram and you're waiting till you finish it before you reply. No wahala, enjoy the break, , ,

ch 4:36 -and worship Allah and associate naught with Him, and show kindness to parents,and to kindred, and orphans, and the needy, and to the neighbour that is a kinsman and the neighbour that is a stranger, and the companion by your side, and the wayfarer, and those whom your right hands possess. Surely, Allah loves not the proud and the boastful.
Ch 16:90- Verily, Allah enjoins justice, and the doing of good to others; and giving like kindred, and forbids indecency, and manifest evil, and wrongful transgression. He admonishedy that you may take heed.
Ch 41:34- and good and evil are not alike. Repel evil with that which is best. And lo, he between whom and thyself was enmity will become as though he were a warm friend.
Ch 2:178-it is not righteousness that you turn your faces to the East or the West, but truly righteous is he who believes in Allah and the last day and the angels and the book and the prophets, and spends his money for love of Him, on the kindred and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and those who ask for charity, and for ransoming the captives;,
Ch 59:10-, love those who came to them for refuge, and find not in their breast any desire for that which is given them (Refugees), but prefer the refugees to themselves, even though poverty be their own lot. And whoso is rid of the covetousness of his own soul-it is these who will be successful.
I liked the way asked about this, but i am really surprised that you are not aware of the beautiful teachings of islam. Truly i feel like crying because people have really mis present the religion of islam. And if you dont mind, i would like to inform you of the teachings of islam about the so called 'jihad' which is WRONGLY known as 'holy war'.

Christianity Etc › Re: The Christians Should Provide Evidences,from The Bible, About Jesus's Death On The Cross. by Niyi53(op): 12:08pm On Nov 28, 2009

aksat:
Hey I think I am waisting my time arguing with you. you are just arguing blindly. It is the bible that tells you that Jesus was nailed to the cross and you believed it; you were not there, it is the same bible that tells you that Jesus died on the cross and why is it difficult for you to believe. matthew 27 45-50 tells that Jesus died on the cross, if you dont believe it, then it is worse than you saying Jesus never existed.

I dont know if you are a muslim or a christain but the account of Jesus was in the quran aswell but the quran did not records that Jesus died on the cross according to the quran, He died a normal death. If the quran records that He died on the cross, then the muslim will be forced believe that He ressurected and that would have settled the fact that Jesus is the Son of God.

i am a muslim. The bible is giving different stories for the same event. I am asking you to prove or at least explain what jesus meant by been a sign like jonah. Hw is he similar? Or is it that this prophesy did not come true? If so, then jesus is not a true one of God. The gospel have different story of how he died:
lets start from where the cross was been carried,it is said a man of Cyrene, simon by name was compelled to bear the cross to Golgotha(matt. 27:32-33). John says jesus himself bearded it (john 19:17)
then the four gospels do not agree in quoting the very short inscription which, as they say was set ur over jesus' head when he was put on the cross: matthew(27:37): "THIS IS JESUS KING OF THE JEWS"
mark(15:26): "THE KING OF THE JEWS
luke(23:38): THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS".
John(19:19):"JESUS OF NAZARETH, THE KING OF THE JEWS".
The time of crucifixion: mark says:it was the (third hour) when they crucified him(mark 15:25) but john says it was about the (sixth hour) when pilate "delivered" jesus to the jews.(john19:14), matt and luke only mentioned that from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.
How did jesus give up the ghost? Matt: jesus when he had (cried again with) (a loud voice), yielded up the ghost (27:50)
mark:he (cried with a love voice), and gave up the ghost (mark 15:27)
luke: when he cried with a loud voice, he said : father in Thy hands i commend my spirit; and having said thus, he gave up the ghost(luke 28:46).
John:when jesus, therefore, had recieved the vinegar he said it is finished, and he bowed his head and gave up the ghost(john 19:30).
Now, if you are in love with a person, and it is said that the person is dead, hearing reports like this will make you have hope that the person is not dead. At that time, there was no science. Now that there is science, doctors even mis pronounce somebody dead talk less mea time of no science. After he was brought down, in john, it is said that his side was pierced and blood with water, came out. This to a medical student, is a sign of life, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. Its because of your belief that he died for your sins that you dont want to accept this. You dont want to deprive yourself of the 'false benefit'. BE SURE THAT IGNORING OR DENYING A FACT DOES NOT FALSIFY IT.

Islam › Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Niyi53(op): 10:11pm On Nov 27, 2009

IbrahimB:
The Arabic word "tawwaffika" has various meanings it could mean death and it could also mean to raise or take up. While death, "maut", invariably leads to "tawwaffa" the reverse is not the case. The proper name for death in Arabic is "maut"

And perhaps to prove that, in the very next sura, 6:60, Allah used the same word "tawwaf" to refer to a non-death scenario:

"It is He Who takes (ya[b]tawaffak[/b]um) your souls by night, and has knowledge of all that you have done by day,
then He raises (wakes) you up again , "

Muslims believe that Jesus was miraculously saved by God from the Jews, raised up to Heaven and during the last days will return (We are in agreement with Christians here), be a King/ Ruler and fight and triumph over the scourge of the Anti-christ and restore monotheism.

According to traditions, He will be a contemporary of the Mahdi ,

You said you believe in the Quran and Hadith. It's sad you could only quote the Quran to support your claims.

It's sad you ignored the numerous traditions that indicate that Isa did not die but was raised up to Heaven.

Whenever the companions did not understand a verse of the Quran they referred the matter to the Prophet - Have you done that?

lets decide the meaning of TAWAFFA from the holy quran and from the hadith. The hadith never support the belief that jesus is alive in heaven, if you think that he is not dead, then present the hadith that says it. In the quran, TAWAFFA never in a place in the quran mean raise up. The verse 60 of ch 6, means the taking of the soul and not the body. There are more than 20 places in the holy quran where this words are used it neva mean raised up but caused to die. Pls present the tradition that u said is in support of your view.

Christianity Etc › Re: The Bible Says The Earth Is Flat While Quran Says Its Spherical, Wow by Niyi53(m): 9:03pm On Nov 27, 2009

nuclearboy:
@ "self appointed defenders of ?? "

Who asked for help or all this "ajo Gbona"??

I asked a simple question of someone who I find very much respectful of what he believes in and who feels insulted that others are insulting his beliefs

I will wait for his response.

@Abuzola:

I notice some of your past posts in response to my questions are being deleted. Do they represent a problem to you or why are you doing this?

If I did it, would you not feel I'm regretting what I wrote. You've been a gentleman thus far. Please remain so and answer the questions posed.

If you don't have answers to what I've asked, fine! Can I ask another set of questions? That doesn't mean you've lost (we're not competing) but just that you don't know ALL the Koran and Bible which is acceptable to any reasonable person.

We'll just conclude then that we've not been able to agree the Biblical God is the same as the Quranic God. Thats me and you O!

I await your pleasure and wish you a very happy Sallah. Enjoy your ram suya , , ,

i will like to help him(abuzola). Ask whateva question about islam and i will answer it.

Christianity Etc › Re: The Bible Says The Earth Is Flat While Quran Says Its Spherical, Wow by Niyi53(m): 8:28pm On Nov 27, 2009

shanti jay:
Hey every muslim people listen and listen 'very carefully cuz the almighty GOD in heaven is not a GOD of confusion'''right?'' yessssssssssssssssssss, (1.answer this questions and stop beating around the bush and face the facts cuz u cannot change the facts ok,

1.is the BIBLE older in existence before koran??, YES

2.Is CHRISTIANITY in existence for hundreds of years before islam? , YES

3.Was JESUS CHRIST IN EXISTENCE AND died and rose again before your muhamed, YES.

4.Is there only ONE way to HEAVEN/GOD??, YES

If the whole answers are YES YES YES YES ,then islam and every other fake religion dont stand a chance in making heaven cuz your answers are the keys to your real FAITH on where u will land on the last day of judgement ok.
So my question is that is GOD a GOD of CONFUSION? , NO NO NO NO,cuz our GOD is a perfect ,unchangeable and the GOD of today,tomorrow and forever, for this reasons i dont think he will come with islam and CHRISTIANITY,ETC religion to put us into confusion,war,killing in the name of allah,etc, a word is enough for the wise,i wont say much but use your own hand to decide your faith cuz its one man race ok.answer for urself .

the bible is older but its unreliable. 1) it is in a concil 350 years after jesus, where it was decided by yes or no which book should be accepted as the word of God, it is there that the new testament was formed. 2) there are two much contradiction in it, and i will present it to you sooner. 3)know that matthew is an unknown person, luke and mark are not the disciple of jesus. 4)know that there is no eye witness during the crucifixion of jesus.

Christianity Etc › Re: The Christians Should Provide Evidences,from The Bible, About Jesus's Death On The Cross. by Niyi53(op): 5:11pm On Nov 27, 2009

aksat:
@Niyi53, it is you that is contradicting yourself. How can a someone go to the grave without death. mat 12-40 is not talking about the rescue of Jesus. Jesus was talking about Jonah as a sign for the people that He was going to be in the grave for three days. If you are not clear with KJV read another version for clarity.read it from vs 38 to 42

i am not contradicting myself. When you said that jesus was a sign for the jews, and he is similar to jonah. It is known that jonah was not dead before entering the fish, nor was he dead at the time he was in it, and he finaly came out of it alive. Therefore if jesus is to be similar to him, it means that he was not dead on the cross nor when he was brought down, that why we have in john 19:34 that blood and water came out of his body when he was pierced. Ask anybody is the coming out of blood from ones body not a sign of life, which is the result of the pumping of the heart.

Christianity Etc › Re: The Christians Should Provide Evidences,from The Bible, About Jesus's Death On The Cross. by Niyi53(op): 4:57pm On Nov 27, 2009

Twend:
niyi ,yje 4 gospel showed clearly dat JESUS CHRIST was nailed to the cross,check out wat JOHN 19vs15,18 & 23,LUKE 23v 21, MARK 15v 24, MATTHEW 27vs 22-31. All the gospel neva hid the fact that JESUS was nailed on d cross & shed his blood 4 d redemission o our sin.

i do not say that he was not nailed on the cross, rather what i am saying is that he did not die there.

Christianity Etc › Re: The Christians Should Provide Evidences,from The Bible, About Jesus's Death On The Cross. by Niyi53(op): 3:03pm On Nov 27, 2009

aksat:
This tread of your is irrelevant. why dont you read the bible to know the truth. well, you can get the fact that Jesus died on the cross on matthew 27:45-50

thats no proof because the 4 gospels are contradicting each other concerning this. Study the gospels and see for yourself. Moreover Jesus has predict his rescue from the death on the cross in matthew 12:40. Pls if you are not convince then explain the verse to me(matt. 12:40)

Christianity Etc › Re: The Christians Should Provide Evidences,from The Bible, About Jesus's Death On The Cross. by Niyi53(op): 9:15am On Nov 27, 2009

The christians should be bold enough to defend their belief, and their theories.

Islam › Re: Sallah Greetings to all Nairaland Muslim Ummah by Niyi53(m): 7:55am On Nov 27, 2009

[quote author=~Bluetooth link=topic=355725.msg5003796#msg5003796 date=1259302571]Why arguing so much when the underlying factor is clear from Allah"Muhammad is the khatimil Anbiyau,khatim Rusul i.e the last of the prophet and the last of messangers.,only God knows his true worshipper, ,may God guide us to the right path[/quote]if you want an elucidation on khatam nabiyyin open a new thread on that.

Islam › Re: Sallah Greetings to all Nairaland Muslim Ummah by Niyi53(m): 6:15am On Nov 27, 2009

illusion2:
Niyi53,I fully understand your passions,but you must understand all the comments about ahmadiyya are reflective of all of us as human beings including yourself. WE ALL BELIEVE WE ARE RIGHT & everyone else is in error.

A cursory look at your own post underscores this fact i.e the christian is wrong,Ahmadiyya is correct. Why not just hold on to your faith,aspire for holiness & don't bother with people who do not agree with you. The christian too will come here & say muslims are worshipping the moon (I have heard this many times). So the criticism of Ahmadiyya by 'fellow muslims' is reflective of how we are all wired as human beings & it takes a really deep mind to break out of this standard reaction. Just food for thought. Eid Mubarak.

why is it that it is all muslims that are opposing the Ahmadis? It is not their fault. The christians should know that their belief in the death of jesus on the cross IS WRONG. If they think it is not wrong, they should prove it to the world. For this, i have opened a thread under the heading 'the christians should give biblical evidence for their belief in jesus death on the cross'.

Christianity Etc › The Christians Should Provide Evidences,from The Bible, About Jesus's Death On The Cross. by Niyi53(op): 11:15pm On Nov 26, 2009

The christians belief that jesus died on the cross, is not supported by the bible. I am surprised to see them believing in a thing not supported by the bible. The resurrection theory, ascension theory, redeemtion theory, etc is against the clear biblical teaching. Therefore, i need a christian who is convinced and understand very well, his/her religion, be he a pastor, bishop, reverend etc, to prove to me with evidences from the BIBLE that jesus really died on the cross. Whatever one believes in must be supported by the book of the religion he claims to follow.

Islam › Re: Sallah Greetings to all Nairaland Muslim Ummah by Niyi53(m): 10:19pm On Nov 26, 2009

zayhal:
wa alaykum salam warahmatullah wabarakatuh. Eid mubarak mubarak, all.

It's been so long I visited Nairaland that i didn't even know that jarus is now the moderator.

i have a qst pls. If one is in a town where onky the Ahmadiyyah group offer the eid prayer, can one pray behind them? Please note that many circumstances prevent this person from travelling to th net town to pray.

jazakumullah khayran. I'd appreciate answers with evidences.

Assalamu alaikum. I am an Ahmadi muslim and NOBODY is having the right to call a person who says he is a muslim, a kafir. All those answering the question have turned themselves to muftis. Welldone. They do not read the hadith of the holy prophet (saw) to know the person the holy prophet called a muslim. Most of this people who are answering your question do not know about ahmadiyya but they rely on heresy. The holy quran says in sura Hujurat vs 6 if a news comes to you, you should make investigation about it, ' i dont know why they go against the true teachings of the quran.
The ahmadiyya community is NEVER SUPPORTED BY ANY GOVT BODY NOR BY THE BRITISH. Pls do investigate when a news comes to you. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad connot be supported by the british because he has destroyed the bases of their religion when he proclaimed that JESUS NEVER DIED ON THE CROSS. It is the support of Allah we are having.
I dont know why we are been branded kafirs. There are some people who do not accept the authority of the hadith, some gives superiority to the hadith than the quran, some even believe that hazrat Ali is the one that supposed to be the prophet, etc. I dont know when belief in jesus became an article of faith.
One other thing is that why do this people want us to pray behind them after declaring us to be kafirs. Why dont you call the christian to come and worship with you.
I rest my case.

Islam › Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Niyi53(op): 9:43pm On Nov 26, 2009

Law prince:
Salam my brother,
If u truely believe in d Quran nd d Sunnah, There are lots of proofs in them about d return or Isa A.S.
Allah the most high said in Quran 43 verse 61: And indeed he Jesus shall be a sign for knowledge of the hour so be be not in doubt of it, and follow me, This is a straight path.

pls know that i also believe that jesus is coming back but it is not that jesus sent to the children of israel. Also pls provide other Quranic evidence that says he is not dead.

Islam › Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Niyi53(op): 10:53am On Nov 26, 2009

abuzola999:
'And no person can ever die except by Allah's leave and at an appointed term, and whoever desires a reward in this world, We shall give him of it and whoever desires a reward in the hereafter We shall give him thereof. And We shall reward the grateful,

Quran 3:145

comment :True talk, but where is the death of Isa ?

pls, try to quote points and not out of points. The verse before it says : 'wa ma muhammadu illa rasulu qadkalat min qablihi rusulu, ' know that the first consensus of opinion occured after the death of the holy prophet (saw), when hazrat umar (ra) said that the holy prophet has not died and hazrat Abu Bakr recited this verse, the companions unanimously agreed. Had any one believed that jesus is alive in heaven, then a person like umar would have disagreed with him.

Islam › Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Niyi53(op): 10:27am On Nov 26, 2009

Assalamu alaikum. Lets take it one by one. We should discuss the meaning of 'TAWAFFA' according to the Holy Quran and the Hadith. If you say it means cause to sleep, then in 5:117, it would mean that 1)Jesus was sleeping till the day of judgement because the discussing in that verse is going to be on the day of judgement.2)if you say that he was taken up to heaven, and he would come back in the latter days, then according to that verse, he would be a lair for saying that he was ignorant of the fact that he and his mother were been worshipped.
Therefore, i would like that you bring other verses which says that TAWAFFA means 'sleep' AS YOU ARGUE.
I want you to know that in bukhari, kitabu u tafsir, under 5:117, it is written that when some muslims would be taken to hell, the holy prophet would want to intercede for then, then Allah the Almighty would tell him that he doesnt know what they were doing after him, then the Holy Prophet would also say the same statement which Jesus made,'falammaa tawaffaitanii kunta anta raqiba alihim', does it mean here that the holy prophet was made to sleep?

Islam › Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Niyi53(op): 8:45am On Nov 26, 2009

Assalamu alaikum.
The promises made by God (in 3:55) to jesus is true. Firstly,God says 'innii mutawaffiika' this is meaning 'i will cause you to die'. God said this to make jesus know that the jews cannot bring about his death. The other promises have already been fulfilled but the first one is said not to have been fulfilled. The word 'Tawaffa' means to 'cause to die' and is supported by the quran, hadith, lexicons, arabic literature,dictionaries,and so on. It means to take the life in sleep only in two places (6:60,39:42). Where it means cause to die is 12:101,8:50,3:193,39:42 etc.

Islam › Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Niyi53(op): 8:44am On Nov 26, 2009

Islam › Re: I Dont Think Ahmadiyya Are Muslims by Niyi53(m): 8:22am On Nov 26, 2009

op4real:
salam,
dont just conclude hastily until u see a commited and knowledgeable Ahmadiyah schorlar as it is not sure the materials u read were actually produced by Ahmadiya person.that was how i used to hear a lot of odd things about Shi'as until i was opportuned to get facts about them

i really appreciate this. May Allah reward you for it.
The Holy Quran says in sura Hujurat, vs 6 'if any news is brought to you, investigate it, '
I want everybody to know that i am an Ahmadi muslim.
We have firm belief in the pillars of Islam, and in the articules of faith. What differentiates us is our own presentation of islam.
There are some muslim sects that give superiority to the hadith than the quran, some do not even accept the quran but accept the hadith, some accept the quran only without the hadith and so on. The funny thing is that they are not branded kafirs like us.
We believe in the holy quran from the very first alphabet of the first sura to the last alphabet of the last sura.
We belief that the jesus who was sent to the children of israel, did not die on the cross but was saved by God and he later travelled towards the east in search of the remaining children of israel.
Quran 4:157, as it was said says 'they did not kill him nor was he crucified'.
This is true and the holy quran is the truth. The bone of contention is the word 'crucified'. Pls check your english dictionary for the meaning of the word. You will see that it is not the act that is denied rather it is death. Crucifixion is a method of killing as we have different word in english to describe different method of killing. The arabic word is also meaning the same.
Therefore the verse is not saying that he was not put on it rather it says that he did not die on it.

In (3:55), know that 4 kinds of promises were made to jesus, and it is agreed that the last three promises have already been fulfiled. The promises were made to him before event of crucifixion. If the remaining three have already been fulfilled, when is the first one going to be fulfilled? Know that Allah(swt) is not unmindful of what He is doing. He is aware of the way He arranges His words. The first promise must be fulfilled before the next.
The first one is that 'innii mutawaffiika', this is what is causing confusion to all and the solution has been given to it by the quran it self. 'tawaff' means 'cause to die' and this meaning is supported by the dictionaries, lexicons, arabic literatures(part and present),hadith and the Quran itself. It is only in two places in the holy quran that it means to take the life at the time of sleeping(6:60,39:42). for the places where this words have been used in the quran, see :3:193,6:60,8:50,12:101).

4 Likes

Islam › Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Niyi53(op): 4:48am On Nov 26, 2009

Yes, i do accept.

Islam › Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Niyi53(op): 8:26pm On Nov 25, 2009

This are some of the verses that speaks about the death of Jesus.
'When Allah said, 'O Jesus, I will cause thee to die (a natural death), and will exalt thee to Myself, and will clear thee from the charges of those who disbelieve, and will place those who follow thee above those who disbelieve, untill the Day of resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, and i will judge between you concerning that wherein you differ.(3:55)
", And I was a witness over them as long as I remained among them, but since Thou didst cause me to die, Thou hast been the Watcher over them;, "5:117
And Muhammad is only a Messenger. Verily, all Messengers have passed away before him. (3:145).

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Islam › Re: Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Niyi53(op): 7:26pm On Nov 25, 2009

I believe in the quran nd hadith.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Jesus Christ An 'accursed' Person? by Niyi53(op): 7:18pm On Nov 25, 2009

samadexy:
Stupid Islamabad, even your corrupt mo hammed dares not refer to Jesus the way you do. I hate arguing about religion.
Go and ask your alfas and study your tira back to back. You will discover your qur'an is a pirated copy of the Holy Bible.
Like my friend said earlier on, the difference is clear.
MO hammed told you fools before his death, there's no way except by Jesus. He told you he himself does not know the way.
Your Alfa's won't tell you the truth. The blind leading the blind. You don't need seer to tell you that your end is disastrous.
Folks, seek knowledge and open your eyes to the truth!

look, do you also know that your priest and pastors will not tell you the truth about jesus? Know now that most of the teachings of the buddhist are found in the new testament? Therefore the bible is a plagerised copy of the scriptures of others.

Islam › Death Of Jesus,evidence From The Quran. by Niyi53(op): 4:29pm On Nov 25, 2009

The Holy Quran has clearly mentioned that jesus (isa ibn maryam) is dead. 5:116-117;3:56 etc. And it is against the idea that he was raised up to the heavens.

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Jesus Christ An 'accursed' Person? by Niyi53(op): 2:27pm On Nov 25, 2009

I am going to open a thread on the topic "the Holy Quran on the death of Jesus", there i will be expecting you.
As for the christians, i am expecting their respond,

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