joe4christ:

Bro, you're only assuming cos you cant be that sure they lived in the garden for millions of years when the bible clearly says Adam lived before his death 930 years old overall, so whom am i to believe, your insubstancial claim or what the bible says?

It's like you didn't read the previous posts, the 930 yrs only started counting after the fall. Just 5 or 6 scriptural references will explain what I earlier said, it will amaze u that all this stuffs are actually bible u've carrying all this yrs.

macof: just proves ur lack of true Christian doctrine

Lack of what? I didn't say I don't know but I choose not to, after all u will just laugh and call me names whereas deep inside you know I made sense but are just too proud to admit it!
Take a look at this thread, the threads on "Is the bible only for believers, the meaning of the tree of life and contradictions in the bible thread" and u will understand why I'm not too in a hurry to prove anything.

macof: rubbish! u are Christian. Where in ur bible was dat ever stated

I won't bother showing you because you won't believe if I do.

plaetton: This might be of some value in this discussion.




https://www.nairaland.com/1462847/did-earth-steal-moon



http://news.yahoo.com/did-venus-earth-moon-wild-theory-lunar-history-173937770.html


http://news.yahoo.com/strange-super-earth-planet-plasma-water-atmosphere-113017775.html

Interesting

macof: So if man lost immortality cus of eating dat fruit, how can u explain other animals case of death

Actually not only animals but the whole earth! Man was giving dominion over all the earth and its inhabitants Gen 1:26- 30, pls go back and read the charge God gave to Noah after he came out of the ark. So man's disobedience did not only bring corruption n death to him alone but to everything he had authority over. In fact the earth is gradually dying.

Alfa Seltzer:

I had to laugh at this. Really.

Keep laughing! you may or may never know the whole truth. But the funny thing about this, is that proving this from the scriptures is very simple.

Alfa Seltzer:

Exactly!

That is after the fall

texanomaly:
Hmmm...I've never thought of that. How long were they in the garden before Eve partook of the forbidden fruit?
Interesting.

Actually the mystery of that part of genesis is very interesting and the explanation is right there in the bible! that's why I just laughed when atheists, that know next to nothing about the bible come here n start bragging, I know straight away its due to ignorance.
Let me give u another clue, first I said man was created to live forever right? what if I now tell u that Adam & Eve actually the live so millions of years b4 the fall? (remember the clue is in the bible)

plaetton:


1st. Where does the bible say that god created man to live forever?
So saying that if you eat this , you will die is the same as saying if dont eat this you will live forever?

2nd. In Genesis 2:22 " And the Lord God said, behold, the man is become as one of US, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever".

So here we see that God is afraid that Adam may attempt to eat the tree of life and live forever, something he and his fellow elohim never intended for Adam.

Anyone with common sense to should already know that no biological entity, infact, nothing lives forever. The dynamism of the universe requires that things start from simple to complex, and then break down to simple again.

How you not heard of the carbon cycle?

If your god created man to live forever, how would the earth's resources and ecosystem have coped? There is only a finite number of humans that can occupy a finite earth.

When will you graduate from junior sunday school?

Smh! this the reason I keep telling u guys to leave the bible alone it doesn't follow common sense! God didn't want man to live forever in the fallen state. John 3:16 ".... whosoever beliveth will not perish but have everlasting life", the word eternal or everlasting is used severally in the NT, where did u think they got the concept from?

macof: Man was never suppose to live forever. our home is heaven. our llives are just borrowed

No God created man to live for ever Gen 2:16-17 NET 16 Then the LORD God commanded the man, “You may freely eat fruit from every tree of the orchard, 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will surely die.” man would have lived forever if he didn't disobey the above instruction

Alfa Seltzer:

Let me highlight it for you because you may have blinded yourself to it.

Genesis 5:5

5 [size=15pt]Altogether,[/size] Adam lived a total of 930 years, and then he died.

It means, in all in all. count from wherever, adam was 930 years old when he died. period.

No! the reason for the word Altogether was because is lifetime was split when it was being narrated, how long he lived b4 giving birth to Serth, how he lived afterwards and then the total.

Alfa Seltzer:

I don't know. Its the holy book of god that said it. If you doubt the book, say so.

Anyway, no matter when it started counting, the verse made it clear that "in all together", he was 930. So start from anywhere you want, he died at 930. Except you are calling the most holy word of god crap. Are you?

Good, its started counting after the fall, when man disobeyed, and Adam was already adult n married to eve. So when u want start making ur calculation take that into consideration.
Let me help u a bit, man was initially created to live forever. So how old do u think the earth is

Alfa Seltzer:

A day on earth is 24 hours to anybody.

Let me ask you a question, Adam 930 years, when did it start counting?

joe4christ:

Bros, biblical scholars are of the opinion that from the period of creation in Genesis to this present day, the earth is just about 6000+ old, maybe you should do some research yourself by making maximum use of your google.
Thanks anyways!

The bible never said the earth is 7,000 yrs, scholars made their calculations but left out a very important time frame, the period from the creation of man to the fall of man. I wish I could tell u more but I'll stop hear.

mazaje:

Stop repeating this lie, cos that is not what I have said, the holy contradictory claims about the holy spirit specifically as presented by christians shows that it doesn't exist , i am not talking about all things but the holy spirit specifically so stop telling lies. . .Your have a very low IQ and you use it only for lying. . .

This is the simple reason why we say the book is not for you, The Holy Spirit is mentioned severally in the book and He is even credited has the author, but you say categorically He doesn't exist! who should we believe you or the bible?

plaetton:



Lord have mercy!

You sir, are surely one of a kind.

Lets analyze.

1. The spirit is perfect and inspire all believers in the same (perfect)way.

2. But the issue now(what issue) is the mind of the believer because that was not regenerated at the new birth.
Mind of the believer not regenerated at the new birth?
What the .@#* is this guy talking about ?

3. One thing is common to all believer, they must believe the gospel.
Noted.

4. Other learning n knowledge will now depend on the believer

So , in conclusion, you are saying that the gospel is perfect, the holy spirit that guides a believer in reading the gospel is also perfect, but the problem is that believer is usually wrong? Right?
Then wtf is the usefullness of the holy spirit if all after everything, the believe is still wrong.

So it means that either the holy spirit is redundant or simple wrong most of the time.

Sometime I wonder if you think through you post before you post them.

Hey have u forgotten free will, man is not a robot, so the HS cannot force anything on the believe, that's why the element of faith is very important!
1Co 2:12-14 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
That's why xtians need to study diligently.

Let me use this illustration may be it will help. I remember when I ws doing a course in network engineering, part of the course was sql n we were given all the textbooks beforehand. As the time for sql was approaching we decided to read ahead, but one thing was common, though written in english, the sql language looked like Greek (I believe all programming language are if u don't have prior knowledge). So when the lesson finally started we were taught, it was no more Greek, we were now able to understand the sql language. The level of your profess in the use of the sql language now solely depended on how much time u spent studying n practicing sql. Same way the bible is a encoded book of many mysteries of Christ, the HS is the encryption key, once its decrypt the bible, you now have a whole lot of information (data), you know understand the "programming language" but the extent to which you can understand this huge amount of information is how much time u spend diligently studying the information using the key (Holy Spirit).

mazaje:

The contradictory claims of the holy spirit as presented by the christians shows it doesn't exist, remember the holy spirit is said to live in christians , it is supposed to teach, guide and explain things, is it the same holy spirit that is guiding and explaining things to Enigma and Oladegbuu that is also explaining things to you?. . .When then to you disagree ALL of the time?. . .All of you confidently and sincerely lay claim to this elusive and abstract holy spirit. . .

I don't know why you are finding hard to understand, the Spirit is perfect and inspire all the believers in the same way, but the issue now is the mind of the believer because that was not regenerated at the new birth, both one thing is common to all believer, they must believe the gospel, which is a common foundation, other learning n knowledge will now depend on the believer

macof: you are wrong. Moses, jeremiah, ezekiel didn't have the holy spirit. And you comment about being one with Christ before understanding the Bible is BS. The best way to read the Bible is wit an unbiased mind.

Why speak very boldly about what u know about? 2Pe 1:20-21]] KJV 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
That's why I've bin telling u guys to keep away from this book.

italo:

Why then were you challenging me when I said it is heretical for Ajibam to say he cant sin?

There was no mention of "spirit" there.

I said in an earlier post that someone speak from the stand point of spirit, a way of training our minds to conform to who we are in the spirit. That's why we confessions "I love, I forgive, I'm a victor, I walk by the word", this are realities of who we are in Christ.

italo: Thank you.

'A born-again does not sin'--noblefada.

"I am born-again"--noblefada.

"Yes I sin"--noblefada.

Case closed!

There something u keep missing out, I didn't say the born again does not sin, but the Spirit of the born again man. pls get it right!

plaetton: j
He he.
But you have a born again mind and Italy also has a born again mind. So why can't your holy spirits agree?
Is the catholic holy spirit different from the Pentecostal holy spirit?

As I said being born again doesn't mean you know all things, the level you depends on the degree of you study and yielding to the HS, some people have been thought something all their lives, getting to change is not always an easy task even if scriptures are steering them in their face, a case of reference is speaking in tongues.
And there is only one Holy Spirit to every who has believed the gospel.

mazaje:

When will the elusive holy spirit come and solve this problem for our friends once and for all. . .Pls you both should pray to the holy spirit to come and help you out. . .E don do. . .

@mazaje I think u shouldn't bother about us, its normal in the body of Christ, its just a matter of knowledge.

plaetton:

Ok.
So holy spirit is perfect, but it is humans that are deficient?
Ok fine.

But here, are you not now saying that the mind of man, no matter what he believes, is not mature enough to be trusted with holy spirit inspired works?

No I didn't say that, the mind of an unbeliever cannot comprehend the things of the Spirit, but the mind of the man born again can, because he now has the HS impacted into is own Spirit. The degree to which is can understand the things of the Spirit will depend on the degree he can renew his mind with the things of the Spirit! Rom 12:1-2 KJV I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

italo: No.

Now, please answer me plainly.

DO YOU SIN?

YES or NO?

Ok good the HS cannot sin right? Now see this 1Co 2:12 KJV Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. And again 1Co 6:17 KJV But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
The regenerated Spirit is joint to the HS, so if the HS cannot, the Spirit of the man born again cannot sin. Hope this clarifies things for you.
As for your question I've answered it already, Yes I sin and as long as I put on this flesh, I may still sin but what does the scriptures 1Jn 2:1 KJV My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
Pls take note of the conditional clause, if any should sin.

mazaje:

The bible encourages people to be perfect, it says that be ye perfect as your father in heaven is perfect, meaning that christians can attain perfection with the help of the holy spirit not?. . .

Thank you very much for quoting that passage, its possible but a process with the HS and solely depends on the individual and the truth not all xtians will achieve this

mazaje:

Na wah ohhh. . .The way these guys go about confidently taking about nonsense is really mind boggling. . .

To you and other unbelievers you're perfectly correct, but to a believer well taught, he beg to differ.

mazaje:

Contradictory claims about the holy spirit as done by the christians shows it does not exist. . .Pls when will the holy spirit solve the trinity issue for christians?. . .

There is no issue or controversy, the bible is not going to be re-written, so it is left for the believer to study and find out. 2Ti 2:15 KJV Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

plaetton:

My points here are very simple.
1. You say that the bible was written or inspired by the holy spirit. Right?

2. You say that one also has to be guided by the holy spirit to understand it. Right?

3. Then, you and your holy spirit inspired comrades in christ make different claims about the same holy spirit inspired writings.

Therefore, something is wrong with either 1 or 2 or both.

Take your pick.

Go and check, there has always been disagreements about the interpretation of scriptures, from the time of Jesus and the scribe to the early apostles, so it nothing new. But let me clarify the issue you have, the Holy Spirit is perfect, but the human vessel is not! so the disagreement in the understanding of scriptures in body of Christ rest solely on the human vessel because of the limitation of the flesh, that's why Paul said we know in part and prophesy in part, but when he shall come we shall know all things. Similar thing may apply in the law courts, the laws are there but judgement will only be based on how each attorney presents his case.

italo: Dear friend, why do you refuse to answer the simple question: are you born of God?

Is it because you know that if you say yes, my next question would be: DO YOU SIN?

Now, that's the million dollar question you are scared of, isnt it.

I'm a believer and I'm born of God, then as for the second question, people are only scared of what they don't understand! so when a believer sins, that sin did not originate from his Spirit, but rather from his soulish (mind realm), that's what that scriptures was talking about. I much as possible I tried not to, but as one in the flesh I'm not 100%, but I meditate more on Gal 5:16. Let me ask you a question, can the Holy Spirit commit sin?

italo: Are you born of God?

I don't know the amount of teaching you have, but one thing is for sure, the scriptures are the final authority, if you disagree, then do it with the scriptures!

@All again the same reason I don't like wasting my time, brought in my arguments gave scriptural references and backing, rather than they to challenge it with facts or superior arguments they resolve to name calling and gimmicks.
So @Mr troll and the rest the question again "Is it logical for an unbeliever to claim is knows and understand the bible"?

@All I've severally said the unbelievers should stop trying to explain the scriptures because they can't understand it! Just a simple course on "Now you're born again", which of course is what I've been discussing above, they're all acting confused. What if start going into deeper issues like: when it first rained on earth, or why we have continents today, or God plant the tree of the knowledge of good & evil in the garden or I start showing you the revelations of Jesus Christ from Genesis to Malachi, or we go into the mystery of the tower of babel and finally on the Pauline revelations, which Apostle Peter himself said it was hard to understand (2 Peter 3:15-18).
So pls give it up, you know next to nothing about through bible.

NB: Pls I apologies for any typo error, using a touch screen phone, which I dnt particularly like.