Mikhaela:

Love, you make no sense. Why quote the bible to explain your point when u know I'm am Atheist? And even so, you explained noting, rather you created more confusion. So you mean that you don't sin? You're above sin? Can't stop laughing...

I quote the scriptures because the issue is about the bible. I didn't say that I don't sin, it is my Spirit man that cannot sin and here again you see why it takes the Spirit of God understand the bible?
You see truth still many churches are not dedicated to teaching, there is this saying we have that because the wrong things have been taught for so long that when the right thing is taught, the call it heresy.

TinyPurpleBaby: To me I don't think the bible is only for believers. The bible can be used by believers to convert non-believers, but its not limited to them.
It can also be used for other things, but this is the example I feel like giving for now.

It can't be for only believers because they need this book to bring in people into their world, and this is the only 'living substance' (as claimed) left by their God for them.

So in conclusion, the bible is not only for believers.

Sorry again its not the bible that get people saved, its the gospel of Christ. That's why I may not necessarily have to open the bible b4 I get people saved.

Mikhaela:

What? LMAO. Please re-read what you wrote and tell me you didn't laugh?! Are u being sarcastic? Serious, *raises hands to the sky* it's a legitimate question

No! you see some xtians will view what I'm saying as a waste of time but I do it mainly for two reasons, one should any believer be following the thread and need answers and two when others genuinely search for answers they google and might be brought to this threads, hence they can get some explanations. I'm not doing it because I want to prove a point, far for it. Even when u guys make jest of me I just smile.
Let tell u guys this, from where I come this are elementary stuffs, that's why u hardly see in some threads like can female we trousers or cover hair, should we pay tithe and all those heaven & hell fairy tales, those I just too shalow baby stuffs.
What i'm simply trying to tell the atheists you don't any about bible yet the boast so much and feel arrogant that they know.

Mikhaela:

What do you mean by he cannot sin? So wait, he can commit adultery, murder and so forth and it would not be considered as sin? Fantaboulous ! Phuck that isht, life is good for u then

As I said above the faculty of the believer that's responsible for sin is his old un-regenerated mind n not his Spirit which is new and his born of God. That's why Apostle Paul said in Gal 5:16 KJV This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
So is it possible to live above sin? yes very possible just walk by the Spirit.

RationalDude: Well, you have just succeded in confusing me. What do you mean by a born again man is infused with a new spirit that can't sin? What if he mistakenly falls into sin again? Does the new spirit leave him? And when he asks for forgiveness, does the new spirit come back into him? Clarify please.

Ok, but let me say this I'm only doing because I believe ur guys are intelligent and for xtians to learn otherwise things like this are thought in school of the Word, we spent hours and days to learn what I'm trying to simplify here.
Man is essentially a spirit, he has a soul n lives in a body. An unbeliever is spiritual dead. Once he becomes born again he is giving a new Spirit which is alive to God and that is the Spirit that cannot sin. But he still has is previous soul (mind), which responsible when a believer sins, that's why Apostle Paul admonish us in Rom 12:1-2 to renew our minds with the Word of God.

Mr Troll: No offense but @noble, you are making less sense with each succeeding post. . . Or maybe i don't have the holy spirit thats why

Well it left for you to decide, guess you've never seen the bible from this perspectives and if I've not even scratched the bottom, that why I advise you leave the bible for believers.
But again I admire your courage (I admire atheists because an average one is intelligent) because some xtians don't have not an idea of what I'm saying, that's I try to reason with atheists who were former xtians because they were not properly taught when they were in the faith.

Mr Troll: As well as every other ridiculous religious books out there. . . The problem arises when they start the 'my religion is better than yours' nonsense, attempting to convince someone else using. . .Logic.

I don't know why you finding hard to accept the obvious facts, the bible is not a logical book, it clearly says so and that's what @mikhaela is trying you understand. You can read as a historical book, philosophical, adventure or whatever its ok, but when you what to makes sense of it you need the element of faith. Pls read my first response again, the bible say its mysterious even some writers could not fully understood what was written. So nobody is hiding under any "mysterious cloak', that's just what the bible is.

RationalDude: Italo's "Holy spirit" says that "spiri-koko" Christians are still prone to sin but........
Noblefada's "Holy spirit" says the exact opposite (although he backs it up with a bible verse, I'm sure that Italo will still counter with another verse from the same bible).

Observe in all my arguments I quote scriptures. But let just elaborate, when a man becomes born again he is new creature n has believed new Spirit, that Spirit CANNOT SIN! For some of us, we operate on our man as a Spirit, hence we declare we cannot sin. pls know its deeper than what just explain just wanted to simplify it.

Mikhaela: Is the Bible only for believers? No. I am not a believer and I've read the Bible and I actually love it ! I hope this doesn't come off as bashing because it certainly isn't. The Bible for me is like reading a fiction novel.. I compare it to Harry Potter sometimes. But I don't think it's possible to FULLY understand it if you're not a believer. There is NO logic to the Bible. From the ordinary eye, it makes no sense whatsoever, it is just another fiction book.

Thank you very much, simple this is just the answer to Op and all other atheists.

Mr Troll: this is what you said initially, as if the gospel was separate from the bible. Don't you see how you are contradicting yourself?
If you tell someone about jesus and he says where did you get the idea of this gospel message and you show him the bible and he reads it and tells you that it really doesn't make sense. . . What then? Do you tell him to just believe first? In that gospel gotten from the bible which is not written for unbelievers yet being told to them? How silly!

No I'm contradicting myself, just read carefully, again the gospel is a message, that message is a person, a compilation of that person is the bible. Now when the message of the gospel is preach, the message in itself has a power to impact faith on the hearer to believe the message, not necessarily to understand it as I quoted in Rom 1:16, believing now saves guys and gives him the HS to know fully understand what is has believed. As I said severally you don't need a deep knowledge of the bible to be saved.
The sequence is: you hear the message - you believe the message - your saved and receive the HS - then you understand. The extent to which you attend the last part will depend solely on diligence in studying. Hope you understand.

aManFromMars:

Jesus Christ wrote the Bible?

The educate you a bit, the gospel, the message of the bible, The Word is not in the letter or writings but a person! The gospel is a person, the message is Jesus! the compilation about this person is written in the bible. In simple terms the message is not the book itself, but the person the book is about. That's why we keep telling u guys you can't understand the book without the Person.

Mr Troll: and where is the gospel gotten from?

The gospel is from Jesus Christ has written in the bible. So what is the gospel, it very simple, that Jesus Christ though being God came to the earth and died for our sins, was buried and rose again on the third day. Once we tell some this message and he believes it, He is saved.

nnofaith: Actually the bible is meant for only believers, because only believers can make sense of the BS in the bible.

Thank you, then s
help us tell u colleagues to stop trying explain this so call BS to us by claiming the know it better.

italo:

I just dont know why some so-called "born-again Christians" make that heretical claim.

Its not heretical claim, its you that lack the understanding, let me show you from the scriptures in case you've never read it 1Jn 3:9 KJV Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Logicboy03:



in trying to antagonise atheists, many christians embarrass themselves.


lol......if the bible is addressed to only believers, what about unbelievers? Is the bible bad for evangelising and converting unbelievers? mtchew

It just simple, the gospel is enough for a man to be saved, while the bible is to educate him on his new found life! so why is it hard for you to understand

Mr Troll: This is funny. How do you expect to convert somebody who has had no prior experience with christianity? In other words how do you convince him that your religion is the only true one?
What if he reads the bible and tells you it doesn't make sense to him? Do you tell him to believe first before it will make sense? Do you see how silly your propositions sound?

And you forget that most atheists here were christians who were exactly in your shoes now, justifying every absurdity in the bible and cloaking the unjustifiable with the garment of MYSTERIOUSNESS!

Its high time you guys begin to face the facts. . . The bible was mostly written by simple uneducated men who didn't expect their works to be so scrutinised down the years. This your holy spirit nonsense is annoying, we also see your intra christian debates where you guys can't even agree on what exactly the bible says. . . Is god one or three? Should you tithe or not? Should you worship on saturday or sunday? Should you pray to mary or not? So much for holy spirit filled christians. Mcheew!

You see no matter how much u guys claim to know the bible it is still evident that ur understand of it is still very inadequate. You ask how does one who has not believe the before understand the bible? You see you don't need to understand the bible to be saved, you only need the gospel! Rom 1:16-17 KJV For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. So when someone hears and believe he is saved and the holy spirit is given to him to now understand his new life in Christ.
You now it's actually very funny when atheists who believe in procedure n logical process seem to forget this when it comes to the bible, the bible says the Holy Spirit is its author, but you say HS our imagination, the bible says its content is mysterious, even earlier writers could not fully understand it Rom 16:25 KJV Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
1Pe 1:9-12 KJV 9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. But you say we hide by lying that the bible is mysterious! Where is the lie in it?
You said u were once xtians and it's obvious you didn't understand the bible because u weren't properly taught. Now the question is if you didn't understand while a believer, what makes you think you now it better as an unbeliever, which the same book clearly said its foolishness to you! So pls can you give a logical explanation for ur stance in this matter?

Let me also say this, your believing is not an automatic ticket that u will totally understand, its take time and diligent study of the scriptures in the Holy Spirit! but unfortunately we don't see this in many churches from time long ago.

Finally a thread to trash this topic diligently and hope other atheist n unbelievers will contribute.
There is nothing new about the and it was inspired and compile for a purpose, howbeit in mystery, and like every encrypted file you need a key to decrypt it. The bible says in 1Co 2:9-14]] KJV 9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. And again 1Co 1:21-25 KJV 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
You see the key is the Holy Spirit, try to decipher it will ur mind will only lead to error and confusion.

Virick:

The premise of ur assumption is the book which is in debate. The accused cannot be the defender my friend.

Point of correction it is debate among the unbelievers who of course the book says it will be foolishness to them, so that not my problem.

Oluwacolded: u haven't given my an answer bro

Its not a physical location so no gps coordinates

FOLYKAZE:

lol. As if maggot has stop eaten corpse of christians.

There are some sense in nonsense. I love some christ teaching like love, charity and respect for authority....other is BS

Then pls stop using ur opinion to explain or seeking for logical explanations since they are BS to you!

Let say me this as a conclusion, what I've noticed here is the many opinions and confusion people have concerning the bible is due to not being able to rightly divide the word of truth and its largely due to the failure of the churches to teach believers adequately, hence we have a lot of confuse folks and those with their personal opinions. In John 16, Jesus said it is expedient that I go away, so that the comforter will come and He will guide you into ALL the TRUTH! meaning the explanation of the bible is in the epistles, so for us to understand the serpent, the tree of life, the fruit, the manna, the law and all the OT; we have to come to the epistles, although a little was explained in the gospel, but a clear understanding can only be found in the epistles. That my friend is the dilemma many have and unfortunately until the come to this understanding they will always remain confuse. Finally this was done purposely so that man will not trust in his own knowledge. Shalom

esere826:

God finished speaking in christ jesus?
jeez!!
You may actually be right sha
it depends on what you mean by "finished speaking"

Wisdom to be saved?
from what or whom?
can u honestly answer that question?
what of if i am already saved (if you truely have reasoned what 'save' means)?
what if i am operating in a dimension you're yet to attain?
I mean it is written in the scripture that what some dont understand, they despise

Insult!!
if i told you that God says you be goat and quote scripture
who is doing the insulting
God or me?
I can't see God, but I can see who has spoken
remember what happened to John the Baptist?


I also clearly see that we might not be able to hold a conversation
however, i believe that i have planted a seed in you which will be needed someday
You might not even relate the harvest to me
shalom

Sorry I'm xtian don't insult people, so I'm if my post sound insulting.
I'm not the one confused here, I simply tell don't use sense knowledge for the bible. You said u have higher knowledge of what? the bible because I just quoted Hebrews 1:1-2 for u n u didn't understand. Let me tell Christ Jesus is the explanation of all things n u will it in the epistles.

plaetton:

Are you allergic to reason and common sense?.

You seem to get so irritated whenever someone, christian or atheist, tries to give a common sense explanation to the so-called mysteries of scripture.

God is a spirit and you must worship in spirit.
Are you a spirit?
So why do you build churches, make loud prayers, castigate others, offer money?

Is that what you call worshiping god in spirit?

Pls irritated for what? I'm simply showing dilemma using logic. The bible is not a common sense material its clearly stated there, you can understand using logic why is that hard for u to understand? You guys say u're logical people n using logic n science to judge ur fact. I say ok no problem, I believe in my bible n I'm ok wit it, but you come along n tell dude I can explain ur bible with comm sense, but its not a common sense material! so who is illogical here?

FOLYKAZE:

You said the tree of life is Jesus. Your explaination not tangible for it to be accepted

For God sake it's not suppose to be tangible, you ask questions about an illogical book but expect a tangible answer, it cannot work, that's the dilemma non believers will have. He that's has the son has eternal life.

plaetton:

That's a moronic question that you know does not deserve an answer.

Do my posts pinch or prick a certain previously unused and unknown part of your brain?

The fact is that you do not understand your bible, probably have never read it, and it embarrasses you when a non-sunday school person puts things in standard english for you.

How can I be embarrassed by you, when the bible clearly says its foolishness to you? Let tell u, on like other xtians I've studied by bible well and I still studying, bin seeing a lot of ur posts and there are due to ignorance of the scriptures, if only u were willingly to learn, I would have explained things to you. But again what makes u think you know the bible very well since its clearly states they're foolishness to you or should quote the scriptures?

esere826:

And u judge my foundation?
lol
(I wld usually not waste my time, but i feel a subtle need to speak in this instance)

Only the simple resort to simplistic and insulting statements when faced when reasoning
You know what Proverbs (part written by one of the wisest men in the world) says about the simple?

Firstly I'm trying to or will ever insult you, in as much as you need so much wisdom to be saved, however there are essential basics you need. I quoted a scripture that clearly tells us as xtian who God is, so when I question ur foundation its because that basic truth should be know.
Secondly you said logic because God is open to reasoning, Nope God has already finished speaking in Christ Jesus.
The bible clearly said Eve was deceived while Adam disobeyed and of course the serpent is the devil.

@Plaeton I've asked u this question before and I'll ask u again, don't you think it is illogical for you to try and explain the bible the way you just did and have been doing since its clearly states its foolishness to you?

FOLYKAZE:

wisdom ya. Christ to me is consciousness something like Ori as in Orisa or tao or buddha. So ya we are on same page.

The ish is jesus you bringing into it

what do u mean by the Jesus I'm bringing into it?

esere826:

Yep, I am

umh? are you really sure about this? or its just what you believe?

The bible clearly states it is foolishness to them that believe not even 1 Cor 2 say the same thing.
If you're a xtian but don't believe God is a Spirit, the ur foundation is seriously wrong.

FOLYKAZE:

Review my response to this issue. It explained it better

Is it the one on wisdom? It was still pointing to Christ.