lanrexlan: So angels and god are the same in the bible.Fabulous,keep twisting the bible.So Amos was also wrong when he said he saw the Lord standing by the altar.
Amos 9:1 (KJV) -I saw the Lord standing upon the altar:and he said,Smite the lintel of the door,that the posts may shake:and cut them in the head, all of them;and I will slay the last of them with the sword:he that fleeth of them shall not flee away,and he that escapeth of them shall not be delivered.The people in the OT can't differentiate between angels and god because they lack holyspirit and are dullards,interesting.Abraham,Moses and the rest that claimed they saw god are spiritually declined.Jacob that an angel has appeared to before can't even differentiate an angel from god when he said he saw god face to face and Abraham too,keep deluding yourself.
In between,the god in the bible dwells in thick darkness.

1 Kings 8:12 (KJV) -Then spake Solomon,The LORD said that he would dwell in the thick darkness..And those folks weren't wrong when they attributed evil to god in the bible.
Isaiah 45:7 (KJV) -I form the light,and create darkness:I make peace,and create evil:I the LORD do all these things.
1 Samuel 16:14 (KJV) -But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul,and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.So stop blaming them,they were right afterall.

Quite funny the way you try to explain spiritual things from a physical point of view, you use your knowledge & intellect of physical things to explain spiritual. That my friend is where u do err! Spiritual things/phenomenon cannot be equated to the physical, it is light years ahead of it.
But I asked again, are you familiar with scriptures in the OT that ascribe Lordship to angels?

lanrexlan: Please,stop posting poo.Was moses lieing when he said he saw god in the bible? Was Jacob lieing either? Or the elders of Israel don't know what they saw? Or god was lieing when he said he will speak to moses face to face as a friend speaks with his friend? Read this again.
Genesis 18:22 (KJV) -And the men turned their faces from thence,and went toward Sodom:but Abraham stood yet before the LORD

Genesis 18:33 (KJV) -And the LORD went his way,as soon as he had left communing with Abraham:and Abraham returned unto his place..This is another one,Abraham spoke with Lord in the bible and Lord went his way after speaking with Abraham.Oya tell us another epistle that Abraham didn't see god.

No they were not lieing but we simply limited by their knowledge of spiritual things. As said by Jesus no man has ever seen the Father! You've to understand that this folks unlike us didn't have the Holy Spirit dwelling them, so they attributed every thing to God, including evil n darkness, but what does the NT say, God is light and in him there is no darkness. So they all spoke to and commune with angels and if you an ardent reader of the bible, you'll noticed other places where angels were referred to as God.

@Bro Joe Agbaje I'll very much appreciate if you can read this thread if you've not done so and comment on the issue raised. thanks
https://www.nairaland.com/1480358/concerning-tithes-giving-etc-expose

Joshthefirst: Maybe he was talking about macof?

Tanx for the clarification

Alfa Seltzer:

The bolded shows exactly what you are. A liar and easily confused hypocrite. Where did I say that?

My sincere apologies to you @alfalfa seltzer for terrible mix-up, was referring to the post by macof

macof:

The Bible has been altered to fit selfish needs(mostly political)

Moses was the first holy criminal
before Moses the children of Israel were pagans, and like all paganic religions they had multiple gods, that they called Elohim(children of El).
El was the father of the Elohim.
But Moses taught them to worship The Elohim as one instead of the numerous gods.
www.nairaland.com/1482409/original-religion-jews

I believe on many occasions in the Old testament like exodus 3:2-6 "angel" was used in reference to one of the "Elohim"

Many times Abraham and Jacob met beings referred as "Lord" and we all know that "Lord" is used to refer to "God"

Moses was just a chronic criminal and known to be the first man to establish a religion.

Abraham was a pagan but Genesis made it seem as if, He was a different from his people at Haran

I very sorry for mentioning u.

It's always hilarious when when I see unbelievers try to understand spiritual things with their limited human knowledge, which is just pure ignorance of scriptures. Although I admire their intelligence, but smh at their shear ignorance, some of us are enjoying the mysteries of unravelling the scriptures and are always blown away the intricate intelligence at which the bible was written, but they come here and argue blinding about elementary things of the bible and believe they are right, while some us are enjoying advance level.
Some times I wonder when they call us delusional and yet spend some much time on something they are not suppose to believe exist who is more delusional, take for instance @alfa selzer believing the Jews believed in many gods n Moses told to believe in one?!!? I wonder greatly where they get this things from.

Interesting topic @OP. First let me say this the Bible is not a literal material and therefore the Holy Spirit is essential is knowing and understanding it contents and of course the believer must be diligent in studying. The issue u guys had was simply due to not understanding the concept of dispensations in the Bible. Moses did not see God, but was actually communicating with angels who represented God as recorded in Gal 3, the law was a shadow and did not represent the perfect desire and will of God. But let me say this I'm a bit "envious" of Moses, because no other man in the IT enjoyed and experienced the gifts of the HS like Moses did.

@OP you may want to check out this thread for more understanding https://www.nairaland.com/1480358/concerning-tithes-giving-etc-expose

This tithe issue is always a very controversial topic in the body of Christ! Pls go to the below to learn the bible truth about tithing https://www.nairaland.com/1480358/concerning-tithes-giving-etc-expose#18867232

You can read more on angels and demons on this thread: https://www.nairaland.com/1479039/concerning-angels-demons-spiritual-spouses#18841823

Bidam: If we are to follow Goshen's logic then i am afraid he is wrong because Jesus appeared to the disciples in Luke 24, MATHEW 28, MARK 16 and John 20-21. These scripture shows Jesus resurrection before ascension to the Father.How does he explain these?

Moreso how does he reconcile scripture that says the lamb was slain before the world was even created?

Revelation 13:8 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast -- all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world. (NIV)

1 Peter 1:18-20 For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. 20 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake. (NIV)

This part is not hard, even though appeared to disciples, He told not to do anything until the HS came which was a confirmation that the testament is now in force. Of course the slain from the foundation of the world shows that the salvation was not an after thought but was carefully planned throughout eternity buy was only finally manifested after Christ's death.

This thread is totally unnecessary, you don't believe in spiritual things or beings, why seek a spiritual meaning/understanding?! Pls stick to ur logic.

.

@Op wonderful observation. The new covenant actually started in Acts 2, when the HS came after the death, burial resurrection & ascension of Jesus. But Matthew, Mark, Luke & John were rightly placed in the New testament because the play important role in the work of salvation. They are human evidence that Christ came in the flesh, while the OT mainly contains the prophecy of Christ. As you know the four gospels was written after some epistles and by some of its authors, but God did not allow to go beyond the human evidence which they were suppose to serve, and you will agree with me, if not for the gospels, a lot of folks would have discredit our faith.

Candour: @noblefada.

Thanks for this write up. Pls if its not too much to ask, who is the pastor who wrote this and where is the church he pastor's? If you prefer I send you a mail, pls let me know.

Thanks in anticipation and God bless you plenty

Pls follow the first link in op to get all d Info u require

Take notice that emphasis is
for saints.
Distributing free food on the
streets and engaging in
corporate social
responsibility whilst saints
are in need is simply lack of
focus .
The emphasis is on believers.
It appears we might be doing
charity work for media
attention.
Some misquote Matthew 25.
Matthew 25:40 KJV
[40] And the King shall
answer and say unto them,
Verily I say unto you,
Inasmuch as ye have done it
unto one of the least of
these my brethren, ye have
done it unto me.
He referred to brethren. He
won't use this for the
unsaved.
Back to giving.
Philippians 4:16 KJV
[16] For even in Thessalonica
ye sent once and again unto
my necessity.
They gave to Paul's needs.
1 Timothy 6:18 KJV
[18] That they do good, that
they be rich in good works,
ready to distribute, willing to
communicate;
No time where we told to
give so God will meet our
needs.
We even misquote
2 corinthians 9
Kindly read with me.
2 Corinthians 9:5-8,11 KJV
[5] Therefore I thought it
necessary to exhort the
brethren, that they would go
before unto you, and make
up beforehand your bounty,
whereof ye had notice
before, that the same might
be ready, as a matter of
bounty, and not as of
covetousness.
[6] But this I say, He which
soweth sparingly shall reap
also sparingly; and he which
soweth bountifully shall reap
also bountifully.
[7] Every man according as
he purposeth in his heart, so
let him give ; not grudgingly,
or of necessity: for God
loveth a cheerful giver.
[8] And God is able to make
all grace abound toward you;
that ye, always having all
sufficiency in all things , may
abound to every good work:
[11] Being enriched in every
thing to all bountifulness,
which causeth through us
thanksgiving to God.
Is he teaching give to reap
bountifully I.E have more?
That's again either a
function of laziness or
deception.
Verse 8 says God is the giver
who enables you to abound
unto every good work.
Grace means to give without
conditions.
He explains this
2 Corinthians 9:9-15 KJV
[9] (As it is written, He hath
dispersed abroad; he hath
given to the poor: his
righteousness remaineth for
ever.
He is teaching giving to the
needy
[10] Now he that ministereth
seed to the sower both
minister bread for your food,
and multiply your seed sown,
and increase the fruits of
your righteousness
Here God gives you what to
give.seed to sow and bread
for your food too.He
multiplies what you have
given. How?
[11] Being enriched in every
thing to all bountifulness,
which causeth through us
thanksgiving to God.
[12] For the administration
of this service not only
supplieth the want of the
saints, but is abundant also
by many thanksgivings unto
God;
[13] Whiles by the
experiment of this
ministration they glorify God
for your professed
subjection unto the gospel
of Christ, and for your
liberal distribution unto
them, and unto all men;
[14] And by their prayer for
you, which long after you for
the exceeding grace of God
in you. [15] Thanks be unto
God for his unspeakable gift.
We assume we are sowing
into our lives.or sowing into
another's life and the fruit
comes through ours!
haba,Thats illogic.
Verse 12-we supply the
wants of the saints. Its
comes back with MANY
thanksgivings unto God.
And verse 14,we keep
excelling (exceeding) in this
grace of giving from what we
receive from God.
The harvest of our sowing is
in the lives of the saints we
blessed.
Same as Jesus sowed into
our lives,and our Lives bear
the harvest.
Is it only the needs of
saints?
No.
Galatians 6:6 KJV
[6] Let him that is taught in
the word communicate unto
him that teacheth in all good
things.
Philippians 4:18 KJV
[18] But I have all, and
abound: I am full, having
received of Epaphroditus the
things which were sent from
you, an odour of a sweet
smell, a sacrifice acceptable,
wellpleasing to God.
Paul was blessed by saints
he taught the word.
1 Corinthians 9:11 KJV
[11] If we have sown unto
you spiritual things, is it a
great thing if we shall reap
your carnal things?
Those who minister spiritual
things to us.
Romans 15:27 KJV
[27] It hath pleased them
verily; and their debtors they
are. For if the Gentiles have
been made partakers of their
spiritual things, their duty is
also to minister unto them in
carnal things.
(Though contextually he
refers again here to needs of
saints in Jerusalem )
We need to realize the needs
of our spiritual leaders in
particular pastors are our
obligations.
Paul's calls his muzzling
when we either refuse this
obligation or treat such with
levity.
1 Corinthians 9:9 KJV
[9] For it is written in the law
of Moses, Thou shalt not
muzzle the mouth of the ox
that treadeth out the corn.
Doth God take care for oxen?
He repeats it.
1 Timothy 5:18 KJV
[18] For the scripture saith,
Thou shalt not muzzle the ox
that treadeth out the corn.
And, The labourer is worthy
of his reward.
It's his right.Due,salary .Our
obligation.
How much do I give or what
measure do I give?
As I am led?
Yes. Led by the written word.
Scriptures, actually tell us
what and how to give.
2 Corinthians 8:2-3 KJV
[2] How that in a great trial
of affliction the abundance
of their joy and their deep
poverty abounded unto the
riches of their liberality. [3] For to their power, I bear
record, yea, and beyond
their power they were willing
of themselves;
They gave beyond their
convenience. sacruficially even in need they
gave.
This is the grace of Jesus.
2 Corinthians 9:6-7 KJV
[6] But this I say, He which
soweth sparingly shall reap
also sparingly; and he which
soweth bountifully shall reap
also bountifully.
[7] Every man according as
he purposeth in his heart, so
let him give; not grudgingly,
or of necessity: for God
loveth a cheerful giver.
Bountifully means
bountifully!
Give well.
Cheerfully (it means laughing
while u do it).
Purpose to give cheerfully
and bountifully. Theres no
freedom to be
loose, lazy, lackadaisical
about giving because u feel u
are not under the law!
Men in the new covenant
gave beyond
percentages. they have
according to their ability.
What was paramount was to
do enough within your
means to meet needs.
They sold houses and lands
(today that might be termed
manipulation )
You are to give more when
you have more.
Just like paul, I tell folks on
our churches who blessed
materially more, they must
give more.
I lead by example.
1 Corinthians 16:2 KJV
[2] Upon the first day of the
week let every one of you lay
by him in store, as God hath
prospered him, that there be
no gatherings when I come.
As u prosper u give more!
1 Timothy 6:17-18 KJV
[17] Charge them that are
rich in this world, that they
be not highminded, nor trust
in uncertain riches, but in
the living God, who giveth us
richly all things to enjoy;
[18] That they do good, that
they be rich in good works,
ready to distribute, willing to
communicate;
The rich were given special
instruction. You must give.
This shows they didn't
become rich by giving.
Rather, they must give
because they are rich.
You church (saints in need
and spiritual leaders must be
blessed because God has
blessed u).
He instruct what to give to
Pastors.
1 Timothy 5:17 KJV
[17] Let the elders that rule
well be counted worthy of
double honour, especially
they who labour in the word
and doctrine.
Double means Double.
It's a measure, percentage.Whatever u give to
others You double to your
Pastors.
As an example, I don't
receive salary from church. I
work for a living.
I ensure I give double to the
church of what everyone
gives.
The New Testament giving
isn't percentage giving of
10%
It's sacrificial, cheerful,bountiful and
honorable giving.
Being stingy isn't a fruit of
the spirit. Neither is
greed, asking God to
multiply money like a
casino.
Philippians 4:19 KJV
[19] But my God shall supply
all your need according to
his riches in glory by Christ
Jesus.
He supplies are need not
according to our seed but
His freely given blessings in
Christ!
And we walk in the new
covenant when we
demonstrate His life and
Nature by giving!
Blessed? say..I am a product
of the New Covenant, I give
unconditionally, sacrificially,
cheerfully because God
meets by needs!
Jesus is Lord, we win! (End).

I once heard a preacher
teach that Ananias and
Saphira died because they
lied on tithing.
God killed them because
they held back the tithe.
Such a man is a deceptive
preacher and according to
scriptures should be avoided.
1 Timothy 6:5 KJV
[5] Perverse disputings of
men of corrupt minds, and
destitute of the truth,
supposing that gain is
godliness: from such
withdraw thyself.
A much more perverse
doctrine stated that Adam
and Eve ate tithe, hence put
the Whole human race in
sin. It further states that
Abel offered tithe (first fruit)
and was justified.
Such men are dangerous. As
a culture I avoid their
teachings.
Even when it's do clear Abel
was justified by faith.
Hebrews 11:4 KJV
[4] By faith Abel offered unto
God a more excellent
sacrifice than Cain, by which
he obtained witness that he
was righteous, God testifying
of his gifts: and by it he
being dead yet speaketh.
His gift was the blood of an
animal. A Type of Jesus
offering of blood.
Abel had the substance of
Jesus blood hoped for,the
evidence of His sacrifice for
sins not seen(Hebrews 11:1)
Jesus authored in the Old
covenant By His Word
(hebrews11:3) and perfected
such faith In His death and
ascension in the New
covenant (Hebrews12:2).
Hence we look unto
Jesus, our perfect offering.
His blood is better (lasting
and eternal) than Abel's
offering
Hebrews 12:24 KJV
[24] And to Jesus the
mediator of the new
covenant, and to the blood
of sprinkling, that speaketh
better things than that of
Abel.
Is giving money a condition
for material blessing in the
New Covenant?
Before I delve into this I will
love again to clarify some
scriptures .
Simple rules of scriptures
interpretation is to stick to
context.
Read the preceding verse(s)
and the proceeding verse(s).
2 Corinthians 8:9 KJV
[9] For ye know the grace of
our Lord Jesus Christ, that,
though he was rich, yet for
your sakes he became poor,
that ye through his poverty
might be rich.
We are not physically rich
because Jesus was physically
poor.
It's very naive or deceptive
reading.
2 Corinthians 5:21 KJV
[21] For he hath made him to
be sin for us, who knew no
sin; that we might be made
the righteousness of God in
him.
This verse explains it.
Jesus death, gave us
life. Righteousness.
Further more, He wasn't
giving a prosperity scripture.
He was teaching
sacrifice. Giving to meet
other people's needs.
You becoming poor to make
others rich.
What is this grace?
2 Corinthians 8:1-8 KJV
[1] Moreover, brethren, we
do you to wit of the grace of
God bestowed on the
churches of Macedonia
; [2] How that in a great trial
of affliction the abundance
of their joy and their deep
poverty abounded unto the
riches of their liberality.
[3] For to their power, I bear
record, yea, and beyond
their power they were willing
of themselves; [4] Praying us
with much intreaty that we
would receive the gift, and
take upon us the fellowship
of the ministering to the
saints.
[5] And this they did , not as
we hoped, but first gave
their own selves to the Lord,
and unto us by the will of
God.
[6] Insomuch that we desired
Titus, that as he had begun,
so he would also finish in
you the same grace also.
[7] Therefore, as ye abound
in every thing, in faith, and
utterance, and knowledge,
and in all diligence, and in
your love to us, see that ye
abound in this grace also.
[8] I speak not by
commandment, but by
occasion of the forwardness
of others, and to prove the
sincerity of your love.
The grace of liberality .Not
Grace to become rich.Rather
to make others full by
becoming empty.
New Testament giving is
giving to meet others needs
and not yours .
Lets view some examples
Acts 2:44-45 KJV
[44] And all that believed
were together, and had all
things common;
[45] And sold their
possessions and goods, and
parted them to all men , as
every man had need.
Acts 4:34-35 KJV
[34] Neither was there any
among them that lacked: for
as many as were possessors
of lands or houses sold
them, and brought the prices
of the things that were sold,
[35] And laid them down at
the apostles' feet: and
distribution was made unto
every man according as he
had need.
When the economy in
Jerusalem was known by the
Spirit ahead of time to go
bad.
They didn't organize
prosperity conventions .or
"how to sow your way out of
this recession " seminar or
asked to sow $419 for all 419
blessings of scriptures for
prosperity
Acts 11:28-30 KJV
[28] And there stood up one
of them named Agabus, and
signified by the Spirit that
there should be great dearth
throughout all the world:
which came to pass in the
days of Claudius Caesar.
29] Then the disciples, every
man according to his ability,
determined to send relief
unto the brethren which
dwelt in Judaea:
[30] Which also they did, and
sent it to the elders by the
hands of Barnabas and Saul.
Believers who were better off
simply gave!
Even paul.
Acts 20:33-35 KJV
[33] I have coveted no man's
silver, or gold, or apparel.
[34] Yea, ye yourselves know,
that these hands have
ministered unto my
necessities, and to them that
were with me.
[35] I have shewed you all
things, how that so labouring
ye ought to support the
weak, and to remember the
words of the Lord Jesus, how
he said, It is more blessed to
give than to receive.
I guess he hasn't learnt the
laws of sowing up to go
up,where only members give
to pastors.
He gave to his fellow
ministers who had need!
Romans 12:13 KJV
[13] Distributing to the
necessity of saints; given to
hospitality.(needs of the
saints)
Ephesians 4:28 KJV
[28] Let him that stole steal
no more: but rather let him
labour, working with his
hands the thing which is
good, that he may have to
give to him that needeth.
Very apt .
Galatians 6:9-10 KJV
[9] And let us not be weary in
well doing: for in due season
we shall reap, if we faint not.
[10] As we have therefore
opportunity, let us do good
unto all men , especially
unto them who are of the
household of faith
1 Corinthians 16:1,3 KJV
[1] Now concerning the
collection for the saints, as I
have given order to the
churches of Galatia, even so
do ye.
[3] And when I come,
whomsoever ye shall
approve by your letters,
them will I send to bring
your liberality unto
Jerusalem.
To be cont'd

First of all let me state clearly that this is not my teaching or write-up, it is from a great man of God from Nigeria, one of the greatest bible teachers of our time! Thought sharing it will clear a lot of issues on the topic. Pls be patient to read.
Concerning tithes, giving etc
this post seems long but
kindly sit back and read
through.
The issue of tithes, offerings
and always generates
unusual attention when
raised.
The two major schools
usually are within these
divides Tithing is for today, though
its under the law, it precedes
the law in the giving of same
to Melchizedek by Abram.
And Tithing is not a practice of
the New Testament as its an
old covenant mode of
giving, the new covenant
teaches giving as u are led
or u want.
By practice, I don't join
schools of thought. If any
school at all I am a stickler
to the epistles, with
particular emphasis in the
Pauline revelation by precept
and practice. I believe peter
endeavored this too.
2 Peter 3:15-16 KJV
[15] And account that the
longsuffering of our Lord is
salvation; even as our
beloved brother Paul also
according to the wisdom
given unto him hath written
unto you;
[16] As also in all his
epistles, speaking in them of
these things; in which are
some things hard to be
understood, which they that
are unlearned and unstable
wrest, as they do also the
other scriptures, unto their
own destruction.
Because of the handicap of
this media,I will recommend
a series to any one who
intend to hear my study on
the subject of tithing:
Must a christian tithe.
Bible truth on tithe and
offerings.
New Testament giving.
Concerning giving and
reviving.
Just give.
U could order for them by
visiting www.saintscommunity.net or www.livingwordmedia.org
Hence I will address some
very pivotal issues
Tithe is a word in
scripture, it needs not a
party for or against.
Abram gave tithes
Genesis 14:20 KJV
[20] And blessed be the most
high God, which hath
delivered thine enemies into
thy hand. And he gave him
tithes of all.
Jacob gave tithes(or promised to)
Genesis 28:22 KJV
[22] And this stone, which I
have set for a pillar, shall be
God's house: and of all that
thou shalt give me I will
surely give the tenth unto
thee.
Take note of the two
instances.
Abram gave tithes of spoils
of war (I doubt whether it
referred to animal produce
or plants as some want to
adduce). Also notice its only
recorded once.
Take further notice, it was
because he was blessed. Not
to be blessed.
The Epistles emphatically
state Abraham (abram in this
case ) was blessed by Gods
promise
Romans 4:2-3 KJV
[2] For if Abraham were
justified by works, he hath
whereof to glory; but not
before God.
[3] For what saith the
scripture? Abraham believed
God, and it was counted
unto him for righteousness.
Galatians 3:18 KJV
[18] For if the inheritance be
of the law, it is no more of
promise: but God gave it to
Abraham by promise.
So,abram was blessed in
Chapter 12,gave tithes in
Chapter 14.
He gave tithes because IT
WAS NOT TIGHT FOR HIM
In Jacobs case, He only
vowed to tithe upon
receiving Gods blessings.
I will exempt the cases under
the law(I dealt with that a bit
extensively in the series
mentioned above)
However, I suggest it's either
naive or deceptive to ask
anyone to tithe because both
of these bible characters
gave tithes. We are NEVER
instructed in the Epistles to
model after ANY Old
Testament saints.
Hebrews 12:1-2 KJV
[1] Wherefore seeing we also
are compassed about with so
great a cloud of witnesses,
let us lay aside every weight,
and the sin which doth so
easily beset us , and let us
run with patience the race
that is set before us,
[2] Looking unto Jesus the
author and finisher of our
faith; who for the joy that
was set before him endured
the cross, despising the
shame, and is set down at
the right hand of the throne
of God.
This scripture says to look
Unto Jesus.
This refers to His finished
work.
The reasons were very
clear.These men were not
perfected by the blood as we
are today.
Hebrews 11:39-40 KJV
[39] And these all, having
obtained a good report
through faith, received not
the promise:
[40] God having provided
some better thing for us,
that they without us should
not be made perfect.
Notice it says they without
Us are not made
perfected. NOT us without
them. They needed us to be
perfect and not vice versa.
If we are to practice things
they did,they are a lot more
than tithing.
Abram gave his son
Isaac, had a second wife,
Jacob had 3 wives,both
regularly offered burnt
offerings.
These were equally
mentioned in the epistles .
So, quoting Hebrews 7 text
for tithing is very dishonest.
Melchizedek was a type of
Christ priesthood. He was
made like unto (figure of
speech) the Son (referring to
his historical records). You
can equally or der for our
study "Our priesthood in
Christ" we had some study
on priesthood.
Hebrews 7 was Only stating
the obvious as written in
Genesis 14 and wasn't giving
any instruction.
Some speak of tithing by
faith.
Thats rather difficult sell.
You sure wont offer animals
by faith either .Christ has
been given .
You can't place a "faith" tag
on you fancy or likes, It what
is written and instructed in
scriptures that is acted upon
and referred to as Faith.
Tithing was a well known
practice to the Jews.
Jesus mentioned it.
Matthew 23:23 KJV
[23] Woe unto you, scribes
and Pharisees, hypocrites!
for ye pay tithe of mint and
anise and cummin, and have
omitted the weightier
matters of the law,
judgment, mercy, and faith:
these ought ye to have done,
and not to leave the other
undone.
If u claim he was teaching
tithe here, then you must be
very dishonest ,having
discontent for the integrity
of Gods word.
He wasn't .
He was rebuking those who
tithe,yet ignore weightier
matters of The LAW.
Faith here is better
translated faithfulness
(loyalty). As the Law is not of
Faith
Galatians 3:11-12 KJV
[11] But that no man is
justified by the law in the
sight of God, it is evident:
for, The just shall live by
faith.
[12] And the law is not of
faith: but, The man that
doeth them shall live in
them.
Romans 3:28 KJV
[28] Therefore we conclude
that a man is justified by
faith without the deeds of
the law.
Its on record that tithing was
NEVER mentioned by
Paul, Peter,James,John,Jude
or even in the book of
revelation.
The ONLY reference was
Hebrews 7 ,I suppose we can
rightly divide that without
qualms .
To be cont'd.

Concerning Angels, Demons
and Spiritual spouses 3
Question is it true that there
was a time when angels left
heaven to sleep with
women did this give rise
to the nephilim Let's
examine the scriptures
"And it came to pass when
men began to multiply on
the face of the earth and
daughters where born unto
them that the sons of God
saw the daughters of men
that they were fair and they
took them wives of all which
they chose, and the Lord
said my spirit shall not strive
with man for that he also is
flesh yet his days shall be
120 years, there were giants
on the earth in those days
and also after that when the
sons of God came in unto
the daughters of men that
they bare children to them
the same became mighty
men which were of old, men
of renown" Gen 6:1-5
This is the Scripture used to
speak of the Cross breed
between angels and men.
First of all it is important for
us to understand the
scriptures. The Bible is a
Chris to centric document. It
is all about the person of
Jesus. Hence, it is important
to study scriptures through
the eyes of redemption.
Now to explain this Scripture
and know what it is saying
and what it's not saying let's
do a quick recap. Who are
angels? They are
ministering spirits, serving
spirits. More so they are
spirits. They have no flesh
or bones. They do not have
Instruments, they are not male
or female. They are not old
or young. They are spirits.
Heb1:14. Jesus in describing
spirits said "behold my
hands and my feet that it is I
myself handle me and see
for a spirit hath not flesh
and bones as ye see me have
" Luke 24:49. So if angels are spirits it means they do not possess flesh and bones and as such cannot cross breed with man. It's abominable to
even imagine it. Reproduction is only given to him who has the nature of a king. Only to him who has dominion. The whole of creation whether fish, birds and vegetation multiplies to be of service to man, the God ordained king of the earth. Angels don't multiply because they are not in man's class and they were
created abundantly at once,
all angels man would ever
need were created at once Job38:7.
Now we have settled this I
put it to you that the sons of
God in Genesis 6 were not
angels but men. The sons of
either seth or cain Look at Genesis 6:4 " there
were giants (nephilim) in the
earth in those days and also
after that when the sons of
God came in unto the
daughters of men and they
bare children unto
them......."
So there were giants before
the sons of God came in
unto the daughters of men.
The giants were men and so
were the sons of God. Sons
of God refer in scriptures to
man, angels depending on
the context in which it is
used. Nephilim is from the
Hebrew naphalah which
means to fall down or the
fallen or to cause one to
fall. Now at this time there
were two classes of fallen
men. Those of the lineage
of seth the third son of
Adam and those of the
lineage of cain Gen 5:1-32. In
fact if you examine the
scriptures properly you will
see that the genealogy of
mankind in Genesis 5 speaks
only of the lineage of seth
though cain had children too
Genesis 4:17:26. If you look
at the lineage of seth you
have godly men like Enoch,
Noah whereas with cain we
see his offspring lamech who
was also a murderer.
Gen 4:23
The sons of God referred to
men most likely the sons of
seth and the daughters of
men refer to the daughters
of cain. We see an escalation
of wickedness when the two
descendants chose to marry
for the men of renown been
spoken of where renowned
for Conquest through wars
and murder like lamech and
cain. So it was referring to men not angels. Angels don't
procreate. They only minister.
So how then do we explain
Jude 1:6
"The angels which kept not
their first estate but left
their own habitation he hath
reserved in everlasting
chains under darkness unto
the judgement of the great
day. This Scripture simply refers to the fall of angels who didn't want to function as they were created to and
rebelled against authority
with lucifer as leader. The
chains of darkness they were
bound with tells us they fell
from God's presence into
unspeakable darkness. They
became demons. The fallen
angels are not in hell yet but
their judgement is passed
already 2 Pet 2:4.
Even the demons know of the time reserved for their
judgement Matt 8:29.
So demons or angels cannot
marry humans. It is wrong
to say that someone has a
spiritual husband or wife.
No demon has a right to
claim as a wife or a husband
a human. Never forget the
fundamental mode of
operation of Satan,
deception!!!!!! John 8:44
He lies to you using a dream
where a being appears to
you claiming you as a spouse
and in the dream you might
see yourself having sex. Never let that invalidate the word in your mind. Hold on to the word. He wants you to
believe that which he is
peddling in the dream. It is
a trick. Use your authority
and bind him!!!!!!
Blessed God! We are new
creations. Angels are part of
our inheritance in Christ.
They are our ministers. They
minister for us!!!!!! We can't
lose. We have the
advantage!!!!

Concerning angels, demons
and spiritual spouses 2
"Bless ye the Lord ye his
angels that excellent in
strength, that do his
commandments, hearkening
to the voice of his word "
Psa 103:20.
We have seen from yesterday
that angels are serving or
ministering spirits, they do
not have authority neither
where they given one. Their
primary ministry is to serve
man who is the heir of
salvation Heb 1:14
Now there are a few things
we have before been taught
and have believed about
angels that we need to
reexamine. Today I will be
treating demons and also
explaining who the nephilim
are. To understand who the devil or demons are, we need to first of all understand who
an angel is, what characteristic an angel has and more importantly why they were created. For the devil and his cohorts were previously angels. The scriptures says "Are they not ALL MINISTERING spirits........."so all angels have one purpose, and that purpose is tied to the service of mankind . so what happened to the devil? How did he fall? When did he fall?
"How art thou fallen from
heaven, or lucifer son of the
morning! How art thou cut
down to the ground, which
did weaken the nations, for
thou has said in thine heart I
will ascend into heaven I will
exalt my throne above the
stars of God I will sit also
upon the mount of the
congregation in the sides of
the North. I will ascend
above the heights of the
clouds. I will be like the
most high" Isaiah 14:12-14
Many have taught and
thought that lucifer fell
because he attempted to
dethrone God and be God in
his place . This is not what
the scriptures teach! Lucifer
isn't stupid, he was just
arrogant but not an idiot.
You can't dethrone God!!!
Many a time we think of God
as having a throne but what
seat can actually contain
God?? The heavens can't
contain him, even the whole
universe is a speck to him!
So how do you dethrone
jehovah?? The answer is
simple. You can't! Lucifer
knew this.
To understand lucifer fall,
we need to remember that
there are only two kingly
beings. God and man.
Angels are not spirits of
dominion like God and man
but servants. They excel in
strength by hearkening to
the word of God. If there
isn't a word of God to
hearken to, they are
powerless. Lucifer wanted
more than this . He wanted
to be a king. He wanted to
be like the most high, just as
man was. If you notice in
Isaiah 14:14 he says exactly
that," I will be like...."
So when did lucifer fall
Some have said he fell
before man was created,
however by revisiting the
purpose of angels we see
that it doesn't add up. Why
create angels who are to
serve man if the man
doesn't even exist? Some
have said angels where
created to worship God, well
true worship isn't singing or
music it is living according
to God's intended plan and
purpose. So when where
angels created Let's look
at the scriptures
" Where was thou when I
laid the foundations of the
earth? Declare if thou hast
understanding, who hath laid
the measures there of if
thou knoweth? Or who hath
stretched the line upon it?
Where upon are the
foundations thereof
fastened? Or who laid the
cornerstone there of
When the morning stars sang
together and all the sons of
God shouted for
joy" Job 38:4-7
So in the scriptures we are
shown that the earth was
created and in the same
context told that angels
where created and sang and
shouted together. This
means they do not grow or
age. They were created at
once at the same time as the
earth was created. This is
echoed in Genesis.
" In the beginning God
created the heavens and the
earth" Genesis 1:1 so the
heavens and all in it and the
earth and all in it have all
the same date of creation.
So if angels were created for
man, to serve man then
where do you suppose those
angels will be stationed
Heaven or earth??
Now we need to realise that
when Adam was created
there was no sin!!!!!! Look at
it "-where fore as by one man
sin entered into the world
and death by sin....." Romans
5:12. There was no sin in Adams
heaven or earth. The world
was perfect and in
subjection to God and
Adam. Lucifer had not sinned
yet. It wasn't possible for
sin to be on earth except
Adam permitted it!!!!!!!! So
where was lucifer stationed
"Though has been in Eden,
the garden of God" Ezekiel
28:13
Lucifer was a wise and
beautiful angel. As an angel
he was created to serve man
with all God equipped him
with. He didn't like that. He
wanted more.......to be
cont'd.

Bless the Lord ye his angels
that excellent in strength
that do his commandments
heartening to the voice of
his word psalm 103:20. One of the most misunderstood subjects in scriptures is that which has to do with angels and demons. MANY are confused
and misguided as regards
this important personalities
in the realm of the spirit.
Firstly, it is important to
note that all subject must be
viewed through the eyes of
Christ. Christ is the essence
of all Scripture. All things
were created by him and for
him. So we shall study
angels in relation to the
person of Christ . So who are
angels? When and why where they created?
"Though even thou art Lord
alone thou has made
heaven, the heaven of
heavens with all their host
the earth, and all things that
are there in, the seas, and
all that is there in, and thou
preserve them all: and the
host of heaven worship
you" Neh 9:6
So we see that God created
them. We see that they were
created when the earth was
created and not before. Look
at this verse
"Where were you when I laid
the foundations of the earth,
declare if you have
understanding.
Who has laid the measures
there of if you know or who
stretch the line upon it
where upon are the
foundation fastened? Who
laid the cornerstone there
of. When the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy. Job
38:4-7
Now why were angels
created? was the primary
purpose of angels to sing
songs in worship?? Was it to
fight the Lords battles If
yes who were they to fight?
Was there an enemy in
mind? If you say Satan, then
it can't be true for Satan was
originally an angel before
the fall. So why were angels
created?
"Are they not all ministering
spirits sent forth to minister
for them who shall be heirs
of salvation" Heb 1:14
So they were created to
serve and minister for the
heirs of salvation. The Bible
calls them "ministering
spirits" they are spirits
whose primary purpose is to
serve man. Angels do not
have authority, rulership or
dominion. THEY are not
created to be kings but
serving spirits. They wait for
instructions to be able to
act . Unless a word goes
forth an angel cannot
perform. The scriptures says
they excell in strength
heartening to the voice of
his word.
Now angels are creatures of
immense strength. They
don't grow. They cannot
reproduce. They don't
Marry. I remember a story
in a children literature called
"my book of Bible stories"
which interpreted Gen 6:1-7
to mean angels on
assignment deviated and
took wives of women and
bred giants. (We will look at
that tomorrow) it is an
understandable mistake,
same as the teaching of
spiritual husbands. Spirits
don't and can't marry. Even
if a spirit claims to be the
spouse of a human, he is
lying. The primary tool of
Satan is deception
John 8:44. No matter
impressive Satan's lies are,
choose to stand by the word.
So angels are spirits Heb1:14
they have spiritual bodies for
the spiritual realm. They
have the ability when
permitted to take on human
form when on assignment
Heb13:2, Judges 13:1-14
They were created at once.
They don't reproduce. They
were created
innumerable. Dan 7:10, Heb12:22
They are powerful 2 Pet 2:11
The strength of an angel is
the word. Angels reveal the will of God Acts7:33-35, Heb2:2
They guide people Acts 8:26
They protect, They deliver from evil 2 Cor 1:10
They encourage Acts 5:19-20
Angels are part of our
inheritance in Christ Jesus. As we speak God's word we
release them to work. They
love working to ensure God's
plans for us comes to pass.
We are not to worship angels
or attempt to fellowship with
them. Our fellowship is with
father, Son and the Holy
Ghost. We do not call angels
in prayer. We do not call on
them, we speak God's word
and we pray in Jesus name
and then they go to work.
Glory to God we have God's
power working in us, upon
us, towards us and with
us!!!!! Praise God! We
continue tomorrow.
*****
Pst Femi Olaleye is the Snr pastor of The Haven Christian Centre Lagos, www.thehavencc.org.ng. You can follow him on Facebook Olaleye Oluwafemi and twitter @olaleyelekan
The series is currently running on Facebook.

swtchicgurl: hello,

sorry, i couldn't go through all your many threads and posts where you discussed tithing and offering.

please, can u just drop briefly the bible passage that suggests tithing isn't mean for christians?

thanks

I've said I'll not be drawn into the issue of if a xtian should tithe or not, because it is simple n clear precept in the bible, but yet very controversial because brethren have refuse to believe the Word. But questioning the Christianity of a brother because he opposes tithing is taking it too far, esp when he is the one that is right.
On the tithing issue I'll just ask u a question, kindly give me a passage from the New testament where believers were ask to tithe or were recorded to pay tithes.

Alwaystrue: @OP,
First and foremost, no one can question the Creator on why He created His creations. We all create/innovate things too and do as we wish with it as well but besides all this, He created us in His Image and after His likeness and part of this likeness is a right to CHOOSE. (Isaiah 41:9, Psalm 135:4 and a host other verses that shows God choses as well). So ultimately God knows why He did it but man can only speculate or have an idea why.

Now, man was made a little lower than the angels (Psalm 8:5) even though he was created in the image of God and after His likeness....He was not really like God as God affirmed in Genesis 3:22; and one thing we know the angels have is long life and knowledge of good and evil (as how else would satan have tried to be like God yet he did not die and is still existing till now). So it could be angels were created with both ability to 'live forever' and also have knowledge of good and evil.

So it is possible to avoid another 'devil case', the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was placed in the middle of Eden to keep man in INNOCENCE just like a newborn child is innocent IF he did not eat of that tree. Also the tree of life also in the middle of Eden was to make man live forever but this may have been possibly briefly nullified as soon as he eats from the tree of good and evil UNTIL he again eats of the tree of life again which the Lord had to quickly put a cherubim to guard that tree of life after they had fallen so they do not live forever (Genesis 3:22).

In conclusion, I think man was created with a CHOICE to be able to be like gods (Genesis 3:5) and live forever (Genesis 3:22) depending on the choice of what tree they ate from. This being different from how God seemingly created the 'others' incorporating both from 'virtues' into them from the onset.

kudos, u really have an idea but not completely though. let me add this to explanation of angels, they're spiritual beings and therefore were created to live forever, but they didn't know the difference btw good n evil until after Adam had ate the fruit.

A very interesting topic, and I don't know if the OP is a believer looking for genuine answers n going thru the thread with I see the regular atheists just here to mock, I'll rather pass and let them continue in their ignorance but so far no one has been able to give a clear explanation, what I'll just say is that the tree was not a physical tree but a presentation of choices

@bidam if tithing was so important how come it was not all mention in the NT apart from when Jesus use it to reprove the pharisees & in the book of Hebrews? How the gentiles were never commanded to pay tithes, how come there are no testimonies in the NT even from the book of Acts from paying tithes? Does it not bother you that each time there is a teaching on tithes, you cannot get scriptures from the NT to support it but only from the Old?

Bidam: Abraham knew the earth is the LORD'S AND ITS FULLNESS THEREOF.
The tithe was that show of appreciation.Anytime you read scriptures read the whole context.After the encounter with Melchizedek,the priest of the Most High God he was blessed in Genesis 14:19 what happened next was that, the tithe ascended to God as a sweet-smelling savour that BABA God had to appear to Abraham in a vision in Chapter 15 to reinforce the covenant and cement it forever.

Remember,Abraham was only human and he had his doubts and that was why God told Him to fear NOT!! For i am your shield and exceeding GREAT REWARD. This trend of event still outplayed in the life of Solomon who gave a thousand offerings to God.

Let's not fool ourselves, God takes pleasure in GIVINGS which is a form of worship really.

As for Isaac and Jacob it was evident in their lives. WHY? because we know God rejected ESAU who did not work in the Covenant.

If the bible were to record the faithful deeds of these men,then maybe we would be taken GHANA-MUST GO bible bag to church every sunday,one example is enough for us abeg.

Moreso,scripture records that Abraham taught HIS Children the ways of God and God was pleased to show him SECRETS.

I think I'll stop here, if truly from the above God would have recorded n prevent us from making guesses. But let me say this God did not bless Abraham based on anything he did, but purely out of Grace. Gal 3:18 NET For if the inheritance is based on the law, it is no longer based on the promise, but God graciously gave it to Abraham through the promise.

Bidam: Circumcision is a lame and flimsy argument anti-tithers always bring.I can confidently show you from OT scriptures where the circumcision that God talks about is of the heart which was also buttressed by Paul in the NT. gentiles still circumcised their children even without knowing Christ. Circumcision of the foreskin is NOT a requirement of salvation was the argument of Paul.

Tithing on the other hand is by Abrahamic covenant not a one-off event cos His children and grand children did tithe.Abraham taught them.

Tithing was regulated under the LAW.In the NT we tithe by FAITH.

No! tithing was not an Abrahamic covenant, it was just a one of show of appreciation by Abraham, God never asked him n didn't tell him to continue n there is no record of Isaac or Jacob paying tithes.

Bossforeva: [b] May God show you mercy young man! If really ur Pastor told U that TITHE is a deception, then i think u need to read the bible and ask the Holy Spirit for Interpretation. The bible has a laid down principles of which to follow. God order the Children of Isreal to pay tithes to the levites and even Abraham and his household paid tithe to Melchizedek. I wonder why u can't let go of 10% the income God gave U to be used in the Body of Christ. God wasn't foolish 4 demanding so liltle. Know that if you fail to pay ur tithe, then you are likely to spend your eternity in Hell. Why ? Cox u robbed the house of God. I wonder why the O.P quoted this Scripture without including the two verses preceeding it. Malachi 3: 8-9, i read from Old king James translation.
Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9) Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.....(note here that the nation used here refers to the children of the kingdom, according to 1 peter 2 vs 9, God called us a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people)
He now commanded us in Verse 10 to pay our tithes that there may be meat in the house of God. Note that once everybody starts paying tithes, then many needs of church will be met. God Bless U [/b]

If we go to hell because of tithes, what happened to Grace

EMILO2STAY: and to think your seriously using your brains. Jesus came to give earthanal life, devil came to devour plant right?

The devourer was simply part of the spirit of destruction that came upon the Israelites when they disobeyed the law, just like losing to an enemy or having a plague.

Bidam: Laws written in the hearts of believers.Heb 8:10-11.You need to meditate on God's word day and night to know the Mind of the Spirit.Who knows the Mind of God that we May instruct Him? It is the mind of Christ that instructs us.

And that is the law of Grace which is totally different from Mosaic laws and therefore absent of tithing. In law of Grace we give willing and in love. 2 Cor 9

truthislight:

Ok! Insects are not to be called 'HE' but can be called 'HER' and 'HIS'

Ok now. If it was not insect, what was then the 'devourer' Was it satan ? Demons ?

Do those ^ work for God ?

Your answer please

Very simple, if u study the institution of law, u will discover that the law covenant btw God & Israel was a form of "Cause & Effect", meaning u obey God's laws u receive blessings, fruitfulness favour, u disobey the law, u receive curses, plague, diseases, destruction, exile, Whatever (of course from John 10:10 we now know who responsible for destruction), so disobeying the law had consequences. The same was still in operation in book of Malachi, u obey God's laws u get God's blessings u disobey u get the consequences. So devourer here was simply the consequence of disobeying n we now know who enforces it.

Bidam: @ ALL, The kingdom of God is not about brighter English grammar,neither it is in talks, meat and drinks.

The Kingdom of God is about the way God does HIS THINGS.

If there where no laws to be obeyed,God would never have given Adam an instruction/law or command from the beginning.It simply goes against HIS NATURE and that was why the LAST ADAM(JESUS) was obedient by HIS death on the cross.

The LAWS/INSTRUCTIONS are even higher in the dispensation of GRACE since they flow from the HOLY Spirit resident in the hearts of believers.

Antinomians fail to see these things really,like i said earlier a christian blessed because he is reedemed can be oppressed by the devil. WHY?

Because he lacks knowledge in the WAYS OF THE SPIRIT.The HOLY SPIRIT DOES NOT GO CONTRARY TO THE WORD OF GOD FOR SCRIPTURES CANNOT BE BROKEN.

God's grace does not gives us license to be disobedient to His instructions,rather it empowers us to keep them because we LOVE HIM.

The new covenant made it more clearer that the Law/instructions/commands are NOT The 10 COMMANDMENTS neither are they the mosaic Laws. The Laws/instructions or commands defines our expected behaviour IN CHRIST and God's grace provides forgiveness when we don't live up to God's standard.

That is why when you give your life to Christ newly,you discover later that things tend to be DIFFICULT as you grow in the Faith.
God want you to know the WAY OF HIS SPIRIT which do not go contrary to HIS WORD.GOD'S WORD are HIS instructions.

I know of Christians who later backslided simply because they couldn't follow instructions and hold on to the end.Goshen teachings is one of those poisons that makes it look as if Christianity is everyday christmas as usual,no sacrifice,no sufferings because CHRIST has paid it all.You are in for a shocker folks.

Clearly those who think they can be part of God's people without obedience to His laws are deceived.

Sorry pls what laws are u talking about, be specific.