Mr Troll: @noblefada, nice try there. One question though, how did you come about the conclusion that the amalekite lied? Was it recorded anywhere that he lied about being the killer of Saul? Or did you just insert that excuse to dismiss that part?

On one narrative, Saul asked his servant to kill him but he refused so he committed suicide. On another occasion, Saul told an amalekite to kill him and he did.

Which is which? Don't dismiss an account as a lie without proof!

No I did not insert anything, that's why will tell u guys that the bible is not a literal work. From those passage its clear that Saul's armour bearer died with him, but more importantly when the young gave report to David in 2chronicles 1 and David asked him to be killed, he said the man testified himself, because David knew he ws lying.

takeprofit:

makes some sense but still trying to understand.
does it mean God working for six days to create the world is also a figurative of man's work to obtain salvation by obeying the laws?

That is very good question. The answer is no, God actually created for six days, but what we understand now is that throughout the OT, while God inspired men to write, He seemingly inserted some clues, pointers, codes about Christ and the work of salvation, even the writers themselves were not aware. So through diligent study you will see Christ prophecy and mission scattered throughout the OT, which makes study of the bible very interesting.
Let me say this two things, this mystery of Christ in hidden in the scriptures is one of the reason why no one can disprove or invalidate the bible. Secondly majority of the epistles esp that of Paul where written from this hidden clues. Make effort to find it out the next time ur reading the epistles. God Bless

Ray McBlue:

Still doesn't refute the verse that stated that he died in the hands of the philistines.

In fact, you seem to be arguing on my side.

Pls go back and read it again I made that clear, He died in a battle against the Philistines who of course were responsible for his death.

Ok I said this one is not only interesting but its actually a mystery of the scriptures and I can confidently tell u that less than 5% of xtians are actually aware of it. I'll try and explain as simply as possible because I would prefer to teach it in a church meeting.
Now we have a Scenario where there look like there is a contradiction, on one hand it is said that God was responsible while on the other it is said the devil was the one!
Now the mystery behind those scriptures is this, the early Israelites did not have a revelation who the devil was, in fact God shielded them from knowing who the devil was, so many of them including the prophets & priest attributed everything that happened both good & bad to God, and God was very ok with it as long as it kept them for knowing the devil, in fact in the all of the OT the devil appears only 4 times, once in leviticus, in deutronomy, I chronicles & once in the psalms, while the word satan appears only 15 times, 11 of those in the book of Job, once in chronicles and I think 3 times in Zachariah. So you see the people of those times did not have any revelation of satan so attributed all things supernatural to God, except in rare cases like the writer of the Chronicles.
Now the case of Job is very interesting, because though satan was mentioned 11 times, Job himself didn't know or had an understanding of satan. This is why, the first chapter clearly said that satan was the one responsible for Job's misfortunes Job 1:1-12; Vs 12 And the LORD said unto satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
It shows clearly that satan was the one responsible but when the calamity befell Job, what did he say Job 1:20-22; Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped, And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.
No the Lord was not responsible, the devil was.
So the correct rendering was that satan stirred up David to number the people, the writer of Samuel did not have knowledge about satan. Hopes that clarifies this. Shallom.

Ray McBlue: Going through your explanation again, I realized that I May have spoken in haste. You hinted that Saul wasn't dead when fell upon the sword, which prompted the 'Philistines to behead him and abused his body' - your words not mine.

That implied that the Philistines were the original killers, but that wasn't the case as this verses below showed;

1 Samuel 1-6 Philistines fought against Israel; the Israelites fled before them, and many fell slain on Mount Gilboa. The Philistines pressed hard after Saul and his sons, and they killed his sons Jonathan, Abinadab and Malki-Shua. The fighting grew fierce around Saul, and when the archers overtook him, they wounded him critically. Saul said to his armor-bearer, "Draw your sword and run me through, or these uncircumcised fellows will come and run me through and abuse me." But his armor-bearer was terrified and would not do it; so Saul took his own sword and fell on it. When the armor-bearer saw that Saul was dead, he too fell on his sword and died with him. So Saul and his three sons and his armor-bearer and all his men died together that same day."

The bold clearly prove that Saul commited suicide, then how come 2 Samuel 21:12 stated otherwise? Did Saul died twice or something?

Sorry mate, the contradiction is back into play. You contradicted nothing. Nice try though.

No I didn't hint that, Saul fell on his sword and died after been fatally wounded by the Philistines, what I ws trying to say was the fear he had about what the Philistines will do to him actually befell him.

Ray McBlue: Now, don't feel smug, because that one is pretty straight forward. I left it out of my original post for a reason, you know? Why it took you so long to explain, still baffles me. Could it be that you are scared you might shoot yourself in the foot?

Alright, I concede that one, the contradictions are officially refuted.


Now here comes the hard one;

2 Samuel 24:1- And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against
Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

The contraction

1 Chronicles 21:1- And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

Refute this one, and I will acknowledged your bible knowledge prowess, however grudgingly.

No it didn't take me any time has said earlier I can answer all, but ur comments made me change my mind. As per the same the next one, its quite very interesting and I think I'll oblige u.

^ The story of Saul's death is clearly narrated in 1Samuel 31 & 1 Chronicles 10, Saul went to war with the Philistines and was defeated, while he was trying to flee he was shot with an arrow which was fatal. Knowing he could not escape, he then told his armour bearer to kill him honourably, but when armour bearer refused, he fell on his own sword. But the Philistines still came, cut of his head and abuse his body.
To the question, Saul killed himself although he was already fatally wounded by the Philistines. The issue that the Philistines slain him him was because he died in battle with them and off course they cut off his head.
The issue of the Amelakite is very simple, the young man knew Saul was dead and that David had been crowned king & it was only Saul standing in his way, so the young came to give David the news but decided to add a lie that he did it supposing to win favour from David, but of course he paid for that lie with his life.
Finally the case of God killed Saul and gave the kingdom to David is just the summary of 1 Chronicles chapter 10. If the you read the verses preceding that you will see it was clearly stated how Saul died, but in summary the writer said God did it simply because the Jews (Israelites) had this believe (they still do) that no one could defeat them except God allowed it, that why severally when the lost any battle, they never accepted the opposition was stronger, but rather came back and I atoned for their sins against God either by fasting, sacrifice and killing anyone who was responsible for the sin. Since Saul was anointed, the writer summarizes that Saul was kill because he disobeyed God, don't forget the same writer had in earlier in the same passage clearly stated how Saul died. Shallom!

plaetton:
Efing bullshyt.
I suggest you read it over and over again.
The bible which u are quoting is saying one thing and you are telling me that it means another thing. Are you crazy or something?
You can pull that crab on illiterates and sunday school children, not me.

You're very funny, you asked where Jesus said the 10 commandments was fulfilled I give Matt 5:17. pls what don't u understand

plaetton: None of you have shown anywhere that Jesus proclaimed the 10 commandments null and void. You are clutching at every available straw to keep your lies afloat.
Show me where Jesus said so. Simple.

@plaetton for 3rd time Mat 5:17-18, Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
And the fulfilling of #4 was salvation in Christ Heb 4:1-end. Have answered ur question?

Ray McBlue: Geez! This noblechild character...

What has that got to do with the topic for goodness sake

Why should I bother with something that wasn't even a contradiction, or related to the topics that I posted. On top of that, it was a lost Christian that mistakened my thread for a Christian chatbox.

Why should I treat something that I or any other atheist didn't ask? Since when do a Christian(the questioner) become an ally that I should challenged your irrelevant and unnecessary explanation?

Honestly, dude (I don't call people dude unless I'm really exasperated), I think it would be better if you quit commenting on this thread, till you have something meaningful to contribute.

Don't let the door hit your back on your way out, bye!

Ok sorry I thought the thread was in contracdicting scriptures and some of ur friends said we didn't have answers to that question that's why I took it up in the first place. Kindly repost the question on Saul's death and call ur friends, I'll give u the answer straight up.

plaetton:

What?
Did you just say that yahweh did not give the ten commandments
This is even more serious than I thought.

why don't be patient and read, God gave more than 10 commandments, but only 10 were recorded on the tablet stone, pls take time out and read Exodus 19. The 10 commandments is null & void because it has been fulfilled, it those not carry any weight today again.
@plaetton pls we have answered ur question as regards to the thread and I shown ample of prove from the scriptures. Pls do the honourable thing, accept ur question has been answered then the thread can to whatever direction u so wish.

@Ray pls no need for name calling, we're gentlemen. Ok lets make a truce, go back and respond on page 4 on John the Baptist being Elijah and I'll gladly explain how Saul died. Deal?

First for ur Info, Yahweh did not give just 10 commandments, but rather a set if law you can find them in Exodus 19, 20 & 21. This law were for a purpose to point the people to someone which is Christ Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. Pls take time to read all the scriptures highlighted and u will a better understanding. Shallom

plaetton:
So the commandments of god are pronounced null and void by Jesus?

Can you give me bible reference for that please.
N:B
I want to hear straight from Jesus's mouth.
I don't give a rat's bottom about Paul or any apostles and their ramblings.

@plaetton did u not read my post? Matt 5:17, and to buttress that Gal 3:19-28: Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
And pls u're not in a position to tell us what part of the bible we should use or not use. Our bible is one, u can't question ur faith and still tells what to believe.
Finally let me tell u those things u call ramblings are actually the explanation of the scriptures.

plaetton: @noblefada
This is the second biggest piece of pure crab I have seen today. Congrats.

Everything you wrote is sooooo irrelevant to the topic. You guys are greatly conflicted in your minds.
What has all that baloney got to do with my simple question?
Did Jesus repeal the 10 commandments?
Its a simple yes or no answer.
If so, then Christians should stop teaching it to children.

You're so funny wahali! why are u acting confused, in my post I said clearly that Jesus fulfilled not just the 10 commandment but the whole law and ur still asking me if Jesus repeal it. The fulfilment of #4 is salvation by grace. Tanx @chibuebem for re-echoing this. This the result when atheists who are ignorant about the scriptures start threads to discredit it, they end being confused.

Ray McBlue: What's wrong with this dude?

I posted a few contradictions, and up till the present, you managed to dodge all.

Now, you have the temerity of bragging about solving a Christian question that is btw not related to the topic whatsoever??

No wonder you were ignored.

Now, who's the hypocrite?

Haha! I just like the fact that many brethren are ignoring ur thread. As I said earlier it will not take me any stress to clear up all those contradictions, in fact the answers to some of them are right there in the passage u quoted. I decided to prove to u that I knew what I was saying by answering the one on creation and the one on Adam dying, which are very simple, they were spiritual events, but u dismiss it as illusion after knowing so well that spiritual happenings are well documented in the bible, in fact John 4:24 clearly states God is Spirit.
But I ask u after all ur ranting throughout this thread, go and address the one on Elijah which I answered in response to a xtian request on page 4, afterall u were busy talking nonsense while the question lingered

plaetton:

So why can't you explain it here?
That is why I opened the thread, so that I could know?

The problem with you homo-religilous is that every genuine question frightens you guys.

Just answer my questions as simply and as honestly as you can , and forget about my motives.

The Sabbath in the law was figurative of what was to come in form of salvation, where God's people will seize from their works (law) and receive the grace of salvation through Jesus Christ and all that is needed is to believe, Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. ( pls read Hebrews chapter 3&4 for better understanding). So through the grace of God that is gotten thru faith in Christ Jesus, believers now have rest in the finished work of Cross. So what happened to the Sabbath day, it has been fulfilled. Mat 5:17: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Ray McBlue:

None, mate. They are stumped. A big victory for atheism.

You see ur hypocrisy, as someone said ur thread is basically for atheists propaganda. I've clarification to at least 3 of the said contradictions the last being the issue of Elijah & John the baptise because a xtian asked, but what do I see u all turned blind eyes to it. Keep on with ur folly. By the way the reply is on page 4.

@plaetton I have seen ur start threads based on ignorance and u argue base on ur limited knowledge. I avoided so many of the thread becos when someone tries put u right u just dismiss or argue because ur mind is made up, that's why many knowledgeable xtians just avoid ur thread.
But let me indulge u, for u to understand what happened to the Sabbath day, read the book of Hebrews because it is clearly explained there.

benalvino:

So coming here arguing whether Jesus is Michael the archangel is important for salvation?

How about you believe in Christ and dont bother about Michael, keep the commandment and live a peaceful and good life. Then when Jesus comes you are saved... I dont think Jesus will bother about why dont you find out if I was Michael the archangel... So it is not important for salvation. The bible is the word of God... But some the things in the bible are stories of things that has happened in the past. Many has nothing to do with salvation you just get a glimps of how God destroyed people who go against him... Which is very simplified now... If you dont accept Jesus you are against him..
no need to read about pheroah it is simple now.

But arguing if Michael is Jesus and so on are not important.



And this is my final post maybe in nairaland or religious section.

You're very right, and I truly respect ur decision, I've also come to the same conclusions. For a while I only follow NL as a guest, but was force to start commenting when I saw a lot of lies and damage some people where causing, people like Logicboy & obadaiah777 to measure but a few. Yes a lot of folks lost their faith on this forum and my advise to brethren as the OP said knowledge is not necessary for salvation and be careful a lot devil's agents are here with just one aim, to derail ur faith.
thank u @Op and God Bless you

Doc_Miss: But why have the Christians Deserted this thread..are they too scared. they can't withstand the heat ?? . Isn't their Faith strong enough ??

I need Answers !

The question the scribes asked John was from Mal 4:5 "Look, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and terrible day of the LORD arrives", which was also a follow-up to Isa 40:3 "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God". The scribes generally believe and taught that the actual Elijah the Tishbite in person was to come back to usher in the messiah, so when they ask John if he was that Elijah, he said No, but didn't deny he was the one that will come to prepare the way of the Lord as recorded in Joh 1:23 "He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias". That's why Jesus told His plainly that Elijah had come, just like the scribes could not recognise Jesus because the had their view and criteria, they could not also recognise the ministry of John the baptise. Take care

nnofaith: you didnt answer anything bro! you were just dancing around the ring like mohammed ali!

It's funny, after typing reply about creation being a spiritual creation before physical with evidence of showing scripture, which @ray tried to discredit and @alfa ignored and ask other questions, part of which I also re-echoed while supporting @Uyi post on Adam all of which is just above for you guys to read and yet u're saying I didn't answer anything! dats being dishonest, you could have just said you were not satisfied with my answer rather than say I didn't answer them.
Listen I'm not here to argue with any body, because I've bin on that road b4 and u guys will stop at nothing to make sure u achieve ur aim, the only reason I reply the thread was just because of xtian brethren that may be reading the thread, so that they don't think you guys are telling the truth, which I've achieved above.
Finally let me say again I can give explanation of those contradictions easily, get an unbiased umpire then we can talk. Shallom.

Alfa Seltzer:

Are my questions to hard for the christian mind? Running away, are we?

I've said earlier answering ur question is waste of my time because u won't believe, to you guys u can't be wrong! I've had this problem with so many people on this forum, I think for us to come to a meaning end in future we need an unbiased moderator or umpire, so that meaningful verdict can be given. Just imagine all the explanations given so far but u guys still go ahead refute them.
Pls @ray even if ur believes are different we still gentlemen and courtesy demands mutual respect, enough of the name calling pls.

Ray McBlue: I was just seeing your post or I would have tackled it a long time ago.

Anyhoo, better late than never, so here goes...



Very poor argument. The bible didn't say anything about spiritual death, it made us to understand that Adam would meet his definite end if he were to disobey god's warning, which didn't happen. Stop attaching your own interpretation into what wasn't there.



Lol! Do you hear yourself? A further prove that there is disharmony between the two, don't you think? If someone said one thing, and a person says another, it's what the dictionary calls contradictions.



Long story short, you don't have a clue.




What is this??

God specifically told him in Genesis 35:10 to drop his original name(Jacob) in Old things have passed away, all things have become new, context. In fact it was a command not to be disobeyed.

Then God himself went on to disobey his own command to Jacob by rousing him with the very same name he commanded Jacob not to answer to anymore, and better yet, Jacob disobeyed God's direct command by responding to his former name, thus saying "Here I am."

Contradictions are all in their contradictory splendor between both verses, mate.






You are the one that lacked comprehension skills, mate.

Okay, let me try to break it down to your level of understanding;

Exodus 20:4- Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

Read the bold 3 times until it sinks in, then Google the meaning of Cherubim.

Nuff said.





You shouldn't have bothered, cuz the arguments you posted didn't reflect well on you person, rather it questioned your intelligence.

Although I decided not engage u guys in ur folly, just wanted to support @Uyi. Ecc 3:14 KJV says I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.
God intended man in Adam to live forever, but when he disobeyed he died spiritually and then physically.
Jacob as a person retained his name but concerning thepromise became the nation of Israel.

@Uyi good you've gotten to Matt 5, did u notice my earlier poser? I wish I could read ur commentary but just too tiny, but pls drop any issue u find interesting.

You see yourself, dodging and frantically trying to save your faces. You can now see why xtians were just avoiding this thread. I made two valid clarifications rather than the Op to do the honourable thing and admit it at least got those version, he simply avoided them and then my friend @Uyi whom I not even sure is a practising xtian right now easily punched some more holes in ur allusions and again what do we see, dodging tactics.
Pls my friends, I'll tell you again explaining all ur contradictions above is a very simple thing but I'll choose not to, because u won't admit u were wrong even with a very valid response.
I think I've achieve my aim, to show xtians viewing this thread ur folly, and big thanks to @Uyi for helping out.
Grace to you all

Ray McBlue:

Lol!

Was this your best excuse? I gotta tell you though, yours is rather refreshing in all of it's uniqueness. In one of my earlier threads, some of the Christians that contributed, denied a second creation, in fact one went as far as to backup his claims with science.

But you, No, you accepted it. Your excuse was hilarious as it was unique. According to you the first creation was an illusion of the actual one that took place from Genesis 2:3.

Frankly speaking, mate, your excuse is the worst one I have heard in a long while. The bible never once mentioned in all the verses in the first chapter of Genesis about the first creation being an illusion, so where did you get that idea from?

I have nothing but contempt for religion, but in that regard, I seemed to know your holy book more than you, and I interprete it better too.




I don't know what you are talking about. Obviously I didn't post anything like that. All the contradictions I posted are loud and clear and self explanatory. All the Christians that saw the damning evidence that condemned their high and mighty bible, took to their heels like the cowards they were.

Why not challenged one of my post, instead of picking the easiest that I didn't even remember posting.

Your hypocrisy is very visible, mate.




And how does this explain the inconsistency and contradictions in the holy bible??




There is nothing not to understand in the bible. The bible is more literal than you would make people believe. All the contrasting passages I quoted are self explanatory in all their contradictory splendor.




A typical example of Christian double-standard in full display. You dismissed the contradictions in the bible that are all in their abundance btw, you dismissed the cruelties of God that are numerous in the old testament, then welcomed with open arms the salvation of Jesus that is only witness in the new testament and thus technically not all that abundant.



What salvation? How can a sane man look for salvation in a book that is obviously penned by men on weeds? Men that couldn't even keep their stories straight and kept on contradicting one another.

No, mate, you need salvation not me. A salvation from that state of mental slavery infamously known as Religion.

You see the problem I've with you guys, when you think u've have a water tight argument about God n someone burst ur bubble, you resolve to name calling rather than address the valid point raised.
You seem to think u know the Bible more than the author, the Holy Spirit! You see I just picked 2 of ur folly because they were more important to me. My explanation about creation was very valid, but do u know ur problem, were u got things mixed-up, u think God is a physical being or entity so must follow the ways of humans, that my friend is ur folly.
Let me educate u, God is Spirit as clearly stated in Joh 4:24 "God is Spirit, and the people who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” so God does things in the spirit b4 they manifest in the physical. The Bible is not a literal book so pls stop all this folly!

I'm just laughing, is this joke or what?!!

The first one is that u claim there were 2 creations, Gen 1 & 2, Nay there was just one creation, Gen 1 creation was essentially done in the Spirit of God, nothing physical, so God finished creating in His Spirit and then brought them to manifestation in the physical in Gen 2, that's why if u read Gen 2 very well, u'll never see the word create but just made and formed, another illusion u stated is that Jesus said in one place He is one with the Father and in another place the Father is greater. No contradiction here; u c in nature and substance God and Jesus are the same and represent the same thing but in authority God is greater. Let explain, as Nigerians we're all humans, meaning if I want to do a gross anatomy dissection of man, I can pick any man randomly from any where in Nigeria irrespective of tribe and get the same result, but as of authority there can be only one president at a time.
So pls stop all this ur folly, because u don't understand something doesn't mean it cannot be explained! As someone rightly said in @uyi iredia's thread on his intention to read the bible; The Bible only shows to u what u want to see, if its contradictions u'll get it, if its a wicked & tyrannical God u will get, but if it is Salvation thru the Grace of our Lord Jesus, its there in abundance! In conclusion, @op n all no matter how u discredit the Bible and God, the gift of salvation is always available for you as long as u have breath, but I admonish u choose life n live. Shallom

Uyi Iredia:

Silence is attimes the best answer for folly.

Thank you for your post, I initially did not want to comment, but I see the guys falling over themselves thinking they've got xtians cornered but I can only laugh because all I can see is gross ignorance.
Let me tell u guys the bible clearly says as earlier stated that the things of the Spirit are foolishness to unbelievers, look even believers cannot fully understand the scripture if they don't take time to study the bible in the Holy Ghost, how much more folks who just want to discredit it. Let me tell I can easily explain and clarify all the above seeming contradictions but it will be an exercise in futility!
To prove what I just said I'll take just 2

Uyi Iredia:

I'll grant its beauty, what about its ugliness ? Take hell for instance, or having to kill to forgive, or the theology of an all-good God which is confuted by the evil God did in the Bible and evil in Nature. As for your reading, good luck !

Good morning, yea concerning that I pray the Holy Spirit gives u understanding, many things need the unveiling of the HS to be understood. I'll give u some puzzle has u read the NT:
1. Matt 5, what the Jesus say about the law n the nature of God?
2. find out what Jesus said about Noah's flood, which was repeated by Paul & Peter
3. Try and compare the law & grace and most importantly who gave the Jews the law on whose hand was it ordained
4. Finally try to take note when Jesus and later the Apostles pointed to himself in the OT and if possible to back to the passage and read.
I hope to check on with u in this journey and pls don't hesitate to ask when u see something a bit puzzling.
Welcome my friend to this exciting journey! the Grace of God be with you. Amen