₦airaland Forum

thehomer:
The theory of evolution is not a myth.

really?

thehomer:
No they couldn't.

Other lines of evidence dispute this other than the Nephilim being mythical creatures.

like? what is the evidence that suggests that Nephilims are mythical creatures other than ur innuendos?

It is not clear whether this discovery was a giant. Just that it had large molars.

and what do the large molars suggest? would a small creature inherently have large molars?

The split from neanderthal ancestors occurred about 350,000 years ago which is far before the Noah incident.
They seem to still have descendants despite the fact that Noah's flood was to have wiped them all out.

1. lets ignore the dating difference. . .remember that biblical narrative supports a young earth which contradicts well known scientific myths about dating.

2. your descendants argument is rather lame. is Noah an Asian? why then are there still Asians in existence today? the point is human genetic diversity still has a common denominator which can be traced to black Africa. hence the case for existing ancestors of any specie is not necessarily a strong one in making ur case.

uplawal:
i wonder too,why is i that the choir never falls,are they holy pass?yeye thing,av been a xtian for years until the veil was removed from my eyes,i never fell too,not even once

the funniest thing the men dnt even fall,they all stood like iroko tree,only women rolling on the floor and screaming.meaning men are free from evil only in black people churches

are u now married to ur jihad brother? u left xtianity because of marriage were there no single brothers in church?

uplawal:
Lets discuss Luke19,verse 27,pls i want honest debate here,and pls and pls dnt come here and start telling us that,what jesus meant was spiritual chopping of necks,or you wrestle not against flesh but principality and rubbish power of low place,no offence,thank you as you debate along

so how many crusades did Jesus fight?

hi all,

has anyone sat for the iseb practitioner test management exam? do you have the past paper or exam resources? can u please make them available? what tips would u give anyone willing to sit for the exams?

quite sad that issues are always limited to the failings of denominations and not to the call of Christ. cele or no cele. . .what is ur personal standing with Christ?

@ e-pentium

where are u based in, london or lagos? the answer would help me to answer ur question.

Question 1) Where did Charlotte drink her cup of Tea?
ans a) in the kitchen or b) not in the kitchen.

not in the kitchen

Question 2) Why did Charlotte breathe into her cup of tea?
ans a) to cool it down or b) to give it spiritual power.

to cool it down.

Question 3) When did Charlotte drink her tea?

ans a) before doing the dishes or b) after doing the dishes

after doing the dishes

Please Davidylan can you tell me if the skills one is required to develop in order to answer these questions properly can be used in understanding the bible?

quite lame. . . .this has no relevance to understanding the bible. . .they are two different texts.
so will u now answer my posers?

Deep Sight:
Sir you don't need to undertake a pilgrimage to answer that question.

actually i did not answer the question cos of lack of time. . there was nothing to think about

Pastor AIO:
The answer to that question can only be found in ancient scrolls. Give the guy time to come back from his digging expedition.

i just found the scrolls under my bed.

Pastor AIO:
Please can you break it down for me step by step how through intellectualism we arrive at 'salvation by grace'. What are the stages of the reasoning process from axiom through inferences to conclusion.

1. Abraham is refered to as the father of faith and the friend of God. abraham is the bearer of God's covenant with man as revealed by the bible.

2. this covenant was believed to have been symbolised with circumcision.

3. through intellectual exploration, Paul reveals that abraham received the covenant before circumcision and as such the covenant is not a product of the promise. implying that abraham received the promise by grace. So also does salvation come by grace.

Where did Paul reason out that circumcision was no longer necessary? Can you point us to the chapter and verse? Could you please tell me what he told Timothy to study? Was it Logic, or Mathematics?

read acts 15 . . .juxtapose it with the reason why Paul circumcised timothy in acts 16. . .you come to a conclusion.
Timothy was circumcised so that he might gain aceptance with the church he was going to lead. . .not so that he might be saved. It was established in acts 15 that circumcison was not a product of salvation.

Darwinian Evolution is one theory (and in my personal opinion not a very good theory). But that is not the point. My notion of christian contempt for the intellect has nothing to do with their rejection of non-christian notions. Every group rejects ideas that contradict their basis.
As I said previously, my notion comes from St. Paul's letter to the corinthians and from the writings of the early church fathers. Most specifically Tertullian. Please go back and read that post again.

and how exactly did Paul's writings ridicule the need for intellect?

I'll discuss this matter for you if you could please first have a go at answering the simple English comprehension test that I made for Davidylan. I'll post it here again, thank you.



Charlotte gently breathed unto her cup of tea and then left it to the table while she went into the kitchen to do the dishes. After doing the dishes she returned to find her cup of tea a lot cooler and quite ready to drink. She picked up her newspaper and slowly read through the first page intermittently lifting the cup of tea to her lips to take a sip.

Question 1) Where did Charlotte drink her cup of Tea?
ans a) in the kitchen or b) not in the kitchen.

Question 2) Why did Charlotte breathe into her cup of tea?
ans a) to cool it down or b) to give it spiritual power.

Question 3) When did Charlotte drink her tea?

ans a) before doing the dishes or b) after doing the dishes

Please Davidylan can you tell me if the skills one is required to develop in order to answer these questions properly can be used in understanding the bible?

I will be back to answer ur question.

Pastor AIO:
I believe that the problem is summed up by the particularly anti-intellectual stance that christianity has adopted over the course of it's history. It is not a matter of christians failing thinking intelligently. But rather one of considering intelligence with contempt.

the above is an unfair assessment of Christianity vis a vis intellectualism. It is the intellectual rationale behind Christianity that can be credited with the "salvation by grace" belief of Christians.

It was through intellectual exploration that apostle Paul affirmed that circumcision does not make one a Christian, neither does being a jew. , , that explains why he told timothy to study and show urself approved. what did he ask timothy to study? and why?

perhaps ur notion of Christians viewing intellect with contempt is influenced by the outright rejection of non-christian notions that challenge basic xtian beliefs. but the question is that have these notions being proven to a convincing state? take the case of evolution. . is it a plausible theory? the rejection of evolution is not influenced by faith but by rationalism and does not connote a contempt for intelligence.

Christians on an individual basis have the prerogative to think intelligently or otherwise. but in Christianity intelligence (from ur submissions) is supposed to be an outright rejection of the christian "dogmas" . . . . when the basic xtain beliefs are rejected, then one stops being a xtian.

What is in the dock is intelligence itself? A valid question to ask is: What Value do christians place upon intelligence? What is it's role in understanding the universe and their place within it?

how do u explain xtians dependence on God? do they not consider God to be intelligent and potent enough to meet their needs?
whats the problem with the xtian understanding of the universe as explained in genesis?

@ OP

atheists are brilliabt only in their dreams. whats brilliant in the inability to construct ur beliefs in a meaningful and objective easy to comprehend words.

atheism dennotes ignorance.

what a thread!!!

better latethan never . . . . happy birthday sir.

so how then do i get to consult ifa?

toba:
u can say this over&over again. I wonder when a few sect share views, they tend to believe they re on the right path, thinking others are deluded.Wheres the reverse is the case

so because they dont pay tithes they are all going to heaven

why are u jumping the gun now?

@ OP

I am a non-conformist Christian.

KunleOshob:
I describe myself as non-denominational even though[size=15pt] I fellowship with a group of believers who are sincerely seeking the truth.[/size] My christian beliefs are based purely on the direct teachings of our lord Jesus christ and the principles of Love he established. I also derive knowledge from the writings of the apostles for doctrine. I take the old terstament with a pinch of salt cos a lot of things in it are not relevant to christianity, it is an old way that has been replaced with a new covenant even though some preachers appeal to it when it favours them. In all I don't believe in church denominations becos it goes directly against clear scriptural instructions. I also believe that the overwhelming majority of churches today (at least in Nigeria) have deviated from true christianity to a man made variant of it which I consider as false religion.

they are seeking the truth because they share ur dogma. please be real

@ Baba Tunde

I am interested in your services, sir.

I understand that ifa also involves divination. . . . which implies the ability to foretell and also see through sinister motives and unseen realities. I am particularly interested in the divination part of it.

can u be consulted online? what would be ur requirements? would u be charging a fee? . . . .I understand that very genuine consultations are free. . . is that true?

@ mazaje

So many of them, I will list just 3, the exodus from Egypt, Noah's flood and the resurrection of all the Jewish saints who walked round the city of Jerusalem for all to see which the bible alleges took place on the day that Jesus was crucified. . . .All these have been shown to be FALSE claims by the bible. . . . .

1. you disbelieve the exodus account simply because you doubt the veracity of the records. You discredit the non-biblical records that support exodus and scream foul that the exodus was an attempt by the jews to create an identity for themselves,  . . . .mazaje we have had this debate before and I will repeat what I said to u then. . . , your position on the exodus account is just an OPINION. . . . the exodus account has not been proven wrong. . that u disbelieve it does not make it false.

2. what explanation do u have for the rootless polystrate fossils . . .  .until u give me a plausible explanation that contradicts the need for a global flood to transport these fossils and the notion of the world being as it is now in the days of Noah. ,   .my take is that Noah's flood is scientifically plausible. . . .can u prove me wrong?

3. The Jewish resurrection was a spiritual context. your attempt to make literal meaning of it is jejune. where is the holy city mentioned in that scripture? is it a physical city or a spiritual one?

FALSE, the Tanakkah(Old testament) was written both as a historical document and as a form of heritage and identity, your claim about the bible being a prayer and faith tool is NOT true, because a simple reading of the book says it is much more than what you are trying to make it to be. . .  .

who does the Tanakkah point to? who does it lay emphasis on?. . . God.
if u cannot understand that the centre/focus of the scripture is God then u cannot understand the emphasis on faith and prayer. That the bible is used as an historical reference does not mean that that was what it was intended for.

Its unacceptable to suggest that apostle Paul was writing letters to the romans to serve as a historical tool for the jews. . .were the romans jews?

False, The big bang theory despite its flaws better explains the existence of the universe and how it came about FAR better than the 2 DIFFERENT creation accounts we have in the bible, the accounts in genesis 1 and 2 were written by 2 different people over two different periods and that is the FACT. . . . . . .No body is saying that the universe came about by accident, people that are concerned are looking into it and they have made a lot of progress even though they haven't gone there yet. . . .You can start a topic and lets compare the biblical claims of origin written in genesis with the big bang theory and lets see which one  of the 2 has the support of the observable evidence we see around us. . . . . .

1. on one hand you acknowledge the flaws of the big bang, yet on the other hand u consider it plausible. Your argument is as such not influenced by logic or reasoning, it is influenced by sentiments best defined as faith. . . .your faith that Christianity is wrong and atheism is right. . .fine.

2. The big bang is not scientifically or intellectually plausibel, unless u are being dishonest. how cn u explain to a 5 year old kid that the intelligent existence of this universe is an accidental occurrence? . . .that sounds quite dumb to me.

3. The two accounts of Genesis are one and the same. Genesis 1 explains creation for God's point of view and Genesis 2 tells us from human point of view. An objective analysis of the two accounts will give a plausible illustration as to the manifestation of the works of God.

4. and what observable evidence does the big bang have? am I missing something?

According to the bible the Noah's flood took place about 4500 years ago, pls do you have any scientific evidence to show that the continents were all together in one place 4500 years ago? The scientific evidence shows that the continents broke apart millions of years ago not 4500 years ago. . . .

1. on what basis do u accept the carbon dating system as perfect in the fac of its flaws?

2. Science agrees that continents broke apart. . .the disagreement is over the time this happened. I ask you this simple question. . . .is a global flood possible in a world without divided continents?

Historical evidence from other cultures show that the Noah's flood REMAINS a myth(no wonder many christians are now claiming was only a local flood due to the lack of evidence) . . . .If you read up about the nation of Gojoseon in the Korean peninsula you wil learn that it came in to power in 2333 BCE after the end of the Bai-dal kingdom, just 15 years after the supposed date of the Flood (2348 BCE). . . . . .

blah blah blah

You accept historical evidences when they suit your preconceived notions and dogmas. . but when they dont u cry fr scientific evidence. . .please be real. ,  there is no room for historical or cultural myths in this discussion.

@ mazaje and thehomer

I am not in a good frame of mind to answer ur posers now. but please be rest assured I will be back to answer all ur posers.

with love from noetic.

na_so:
Pure lie. JARUS is my guy any day.

ur opinion. jarus is officially the most disgusting, bigotic, hypocritical, imbecilic, moronic nuisance on nairaland.
Thats also my opinion. . . . .live with it.

and who exactly likes jarus? the dude disgusts excellently

thehomer:
Ok. Going by these assumptions, then one cannot actually determine what it is that God wants to do. If this is so, what would then be the use of praying if He will simply go ahead and do whatever he wants irrespective of who will suffer for this action?

1. while we do not know the mind of God or what He intends to do. . .we however know that He does nothing unless he reveals it to his prophets. So God makes revelations of his intentions.

2. prayer is a communication channel to God. Jesus said whatsoever is asked in his name according to the father's will shall be done. it is also through prayer that we get to know of what God wants to do. prayer is the catalyst to knowing God in an agnostic way.

His method seems quite inefficient given his numerous capabilities and his previous methods of reaching out to others. He has used floating pillars of fire and clouds, speaking animals etc. Why does he depend on other fallible humans to spread this message? Why the change in tactics?

This is just your opinion.

why do u not eat the same type of food every single day? because u have the liberty, funds and free will to choose what type of food u want and the source. The same applies to God , . . .he reaches out to all at the liberty of his enormous resources.

Yes it implies a belief in some God but can one actually determine the true one without the Bible? One would need to know this to determine who to pray to.

You are assuming that there is more than one creator.

Going by biblical genealogy, one can conclude that all current humans arose from a single ancestor in two events less than 5000 years ago. But by science and scientific methods, we can conclusively say that this is not so.

why is it impossible for humans to have a single ancestor within the last 6000 years?

You say it was designed for prayer and faith. Then why also try to extend it to scientifically verifiable fields?

because I do not think that biblical claims can fail an objective scientific enquiry.

The thing here is that evolution and other theories are based on evidence that we have. We simply do not have evidence for this super intelligent being and an intelligent universe. Another problem with such a concept is that this intelligent being would also require an explanation.

really? is evolution a science? how scientific is evolution? can the pioneer chemical reactions that kick started life be repeated?

I don't see how these polystrate fossils explain Noah's flood because in several cases, dating of these fossils indicates that they are simply too old to have been laid down only during the flood which is relatively recent in geological terms. This to me is selectively applying scientific evidence to fit a preconceived notion.

thats not the point.

how did this rootless polystrate fossils get to their found location? where was their origin? what could have transported them to their present location other than a global flood?

Well if one actually believes these are instructions from God, they should feel bound to follow them since they surely would not wish to go against God. Does the replacement of covenants mean that the previous laws should not be followed?

They are not just instructions. it takes a deeper understanding to make the intended deductions from the scriptures. circumcision was the mark of the old covenant, but circumcision has been relegated by the new covenant established by faith. So why should a christian circumcise their kid because of an ot injunction? would this not mean a wrong understanding of biblical teachings?

I don't think it's uninformed because I'm basing this opinion on what I've seen quite a number of Christians do.

I have seen a lot of black folks committing fraud. . .does that mean all blacks are fraudsters?

That's part of my question. Do you think it's possible to get to know your God by any other means other than the Bible?

why rule out the bible? let the bible be ur starting point, . . , that way one does not miss God.

This means God simply has a win win situation on his hands. e.g if one is to be healed of all illnesses by faith then gets healed, God takes the credit. If the person decides not to take this literally and opts for medication which also treats the illness, God still gets the credit.

the only basis for a miraculous healing is when there is no medical healing. The medical knowledge we possess today is a GIFT from God.

Another question. What are your best three reasons for concluding that Christianity is actually true?

I have never thought about listing a couple of reasons for believing in Christianity. . talk less of my best three.
but to tease u a bit. . . . here are three

1. true worship makes a believer agnostic. u get to know God personally and feel an inner out pour of peace, direction and purpose. u tap into the love of God.

2. u are at peace with ur maker through the salvation of the cross. an unlimited access to the father.

3. you reign with Christ in eternity. . . , an eternity devoid of the evil of this present world.

drrobert:
i though if i work in church all will be cool.
they hardly pay salaries but there is money circulating
we work listen to best messages of inspiration but our Pastor do not act what they seem
i really regret working in Christ embassy.

its just the wickedness of man to man. your spirit should testify if it is the true God that is worshipped in CE.

thehomer:
All right here we go. 

One can argue that its composition and compilation is not quite extraordinary because it went through lots of hands and the books that finally made it into the commonly available compilation were decided by votes. To start with, there are various accepted compilations of acceptable books.

Your argument is potent if and only if u can establish a unique pattern through which God does the things that he does? I state this because while this "change of hands" experience that the bible went through might just have been God's way of revealing His word. take for instance, God permitted the descendants of Abraham to go into slavery for the sins of Abraham. they went into slavery for 432 years. God permitted the descendants of king hezekiah to go into slavery for his sins.

To the descendants of hezekiah and abraham, their slavery and deliverance is meaningless and shows the "inefficiency" of God . . .to abrahanm and hezekiah, this is a righteous God who can behold no iniquity and will as such pay man back according to his deeds. To latter day generation of believers, we see a comprehensive ontology of God in His relations to man.

my point is that your world view about the compilation of the bible does not in any way rubbish the intended work of God. why we have no absolute understanding as to why God does what he does. . . we do however know that all what is done fits into a uniquely divine purpose.

Ok. Since this is just for believers, what is his plan for non-believers? How does he reach out to them?

God reaches out to everyone by the dictates of their conscience. God reaches out to all of mankind in this generation  by the salvation offered on the cross of calvary. God's plan for all is that we become co-heirs with his son.

How can they (non-believers) discern who is actually from God before reviewing the Bible?

This question assumes that the non-believer already believes in God but does not know how to get to him or know what message comes from him. The answer is to go directly to God in sincerity and prayer. God will definitely respond, unless he is indifferent and cannot be bothered. . .  which is biblically not the case.

But is it consistent for one to actually continue to accept something as being true when we can and have demonstrated them as being false scientifically?

what biblical account has been demonstrated as false? and by whom?

When you say "infallible word of God", does this mean that it cannot be wrong or that any errors in it were made by the writers?

The bible was written as a prayer and faith tool. In the context of prayer and faith, it cannot be wrong. why use the bible for scientific exploration?

Not quite. In some cases, the information available in the Bible is quite enough to conclude that the writer simply did not have access to the sort of information we currently possess.

This was the point I made when I asserted that the bible cannot be used to construct an historical argument. . . it was not designed to do so.

I disagree. I think that the "scientific" reasons presented are actually not plausible. And, some of the stories can be dismissed as myths.
Considering the creation story for instance, which of the two do we actually go with?
Then about the flood, could there actually have been a flood large enough to cover the highest peaks on earth?

1. if u objectively look at the creation accounts . . . .I think it is more plausible than evolution or any other theory. As it postulates a super-intelligent being creating an intelligent universe full of life. it is both absurd and intellectually backward to suggest that the universe and the essentials of life as we see it today is an accidental occurrence.

2. You are actually assuming that the earth was always like this. .   in this scattered and divided form. There are plausible scientific notions that suggest that the earth was not always like this and was most importantly not in this form when Noah's flood took place. And again have u heard of rootless polystrate fossils? they IMO explain Noah's flood in graphic terms.

So do I take this as the instructions given in the Bible all being equally valid and binding on believers?

Valid . . .YES. but no one said anything about being bound to follow this instructions. The old covenant has been replaced with the new covenant. they both complement and reveal each other. So while the entire scriptures is valid, its interpretation should be subject to the spirit of God.

If it contains as you mentioned patriarchs and prophecies, we can at least evaluate some of these.
Though I do think that it is inconsistent and that it has been used to govern other men, I do not think it is worthless. But I wonder what Godly things you're talking about that other humans simply do not extend to others

Faith as described in the Bible seems quite problematic to me. It requires acceptance without evidence or with poor evidence.

This is just an opinion . . . . IMO its an uninformed opinion.

But I need to determine how to differentiate the voice of God from our regular conscience.

Ask God in prayer.

So going by the story, was the child conceived with Hagar a good or bad idea?

Abraham tried to interpret God's simple and direct instructions using his carnal knowledge only to end up doing something contrary to the plan of God. The situation Abraham found himself is the same situation many believers who hear directly from God also find themselves.

hearing from God gives u an extra responsibility of humility .  ,   to ask for clarification for even the simplest instructions.

Nah I think that if you can actually communicate with God and you can actually receive responses from him that are unambiguous, then you must be quite special indeed.
Of course we all have a lot to learn. I'm learning right now. 

you are entitled to ur opinion. 

thehomer:
Hi noetic16, this is the thread.
I'd like to get the conversation going with these questions.

Your questions are welcomed.  

How do you view the Holy Bible?

The holy bible is a self-comprehensive message from God to us. its composition is on it own a miracle, as we can assert that through the lives and inspiration of many people in their own lives, we have an explicit message from God.

I view the bible as God's primary channel of communication to believers. Its a prayer tool for believers and contains essential truths on how to live a Godly fulfilling life.

No one can fully comprehend the entire messages intended by the bible, that explains why believers  would be learners till they die.

Do you consider it entirely true?

Let me set out by stating that I do not think the bible was intended to serve as a historical, scientific or archaeological source of information if seen from a "non-theist" objective point of view.

In lieu of the above, I believe that the bible is true, it is the inherent, infallible word of God. . .with unlimited truths to enable us live and function as God always intended.

I would not rely entirely on the bible to construct a historical evidence for anything. . . .why not? because IMO the bible was not designed/written with such intentions. To construct an historical argument using biblical accounts would require innuendos and additional non-biblical information, which defeats the purpose of relying on the bible for such information.

I would rely on the bible to make fundamental claims, assertions and theories that pertain to the essential creed of the Christian faith, as in the cases of creation and Noah's flood. The reason is obvious: Even if one ignores the "Faith command" there is enough plausible scientific reasons to subscribe to these beliefs. And also there is no plausible scientifically acceptable alternative to biblical assertions. This postulates a case for anti-God crusaders hiding behind unprovable theories to discredit biblical accounts.

Are some parts of the Bible more valid than others?

Based on personal agnostic understanding . . . .it is inconceivable to suggest that any part of the bible is an accidental occurrence not to talk of having less or more validity to other parts.

The bible IMO consists of the revealed knowledge of God to us as believers. Its composition of the creation, patriarchs, prophecy, salvation, eternal promises amongst others are part of God's covenant. As Apostle Paul rightly proclaimed that God has used the foolish things of this world to confound the wise. The composition of the bible and the erroneous belief of many that the bible is a worthless an inconsistent indoctrination of man to govern man is at best a reflection of man's ignorance, rebellion and rejection of Godly things.

To better understand the purpose of the bible, the bible is best examined  as a prayer tool. Prayer on its own is an act of faith, since it involves communication with an unseen person. The implication is that, the only way to fully understand and conceive the message of the  bible is to have faith.

Does God speak to you?

Lets not zoom into me  . . . .but God does talk to me. It does not mean that I know anything. Infarct my conversations with God has further exposed my ignorance, weaknesses and inability to gasp the things of God.

take for instance. . .God told Abraham that "I will give u a son of ur own flesh". Sarah brought up a good idea that Abraham should mate with Hagar, Abraham agreed thinking its in line with the plan of God. which was never the case. this mistake cost him his peace and made him see the hand of God more in his life.

My relationship with God does not make me any special because you also can have that relationship. I have a lot to learn and a life time to learn it.

thehomer:
Will you be willing to meet me on a new thread? The OP is quite touchy about this one.

sure, I will.

thehomer:
@noetic

Can I also ask you questions about your concepts of Christianity and God?

please go ahead.

Rhino.3dm:
^^and who determines the genuiness of the questions to be ask? ? Which God are you even talking about? ?.  hope not that 'dead jewish carpenter'.
you educate my ignorance or i expose yours . .
Its a two way traffic. Broda!

I would like you to expose my ignorance. and please avoid all traces of dishonesty. . .the subject is Christianity and as such we know the God in question.

I await ur questions.

and why must her life be centred around u?

You are self-centred, ill-advised, immature and hypocritical dude who needs an urgent reality check.