₦airaland Forum

KunleOshob:
@olaadegbu
Your shallow and inept understanding of scripture never ceases to amaze me, obviously your state of delusion is as a result of all the scriptural perversions your pentecostal movement is noted for. The koko of christianity is LOVE which brings about peace and not about war mongering as you have admonished here. The sword in the scripture you quoted is figurative and not literal.

did u read the OP at all?

Quote from: MyJoe on Yesterday at 02:46:23 PM
Acts 11:24 (New International Version)
24He was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and faith, and a great number of people were brought to the Lord.

Acts 7:55-56 (New International Version)
55But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56"Look," he said, "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God."

Acts 8:15 (New International Version)
15When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit,

Acts 9:17 (New International Version)
17Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit."

Jude 1:20 (New International Version)
20But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit.

Hebrews 6:4 (New International Version)
4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,

Acts 13:19 (New International Version)
19he overthrew seven nations in Canaan and gave their land to his people as their inheritance.

Matthew 3:11 (New International Version)
11"I baptize you with[a] water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

Luke 1:35 (New International Version)
35The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[a] the Son of God.

Acts 10:38 (New International Version)
38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.

Want more?

1. Your argument and Deepsight's is fundamentally flawed as it does not put "the unknown" into perspective.

what is the "known"? we know that God consists of three persons ELOHIM. This Elohim consists of the Father , son and the holy spirit. We know that everything that exists was created by the Son, we know that it was the son that gave the 10 commandments, the son appeared to moses in a burning bush and also gave him 613 commandments for israel, we know that all the biblical names used to describe God actually refers to the son . . . and the son incarnated in human form to redeem mankind from sin as Jesus Christ. We have only seen the son, we do not know the Father or the Spirit. what we know from about the father or spirit are the things the son revealed to us. the things the son did not reveal are what I call "the unknown"

2. You call the holy spirit a force because His presence is manifested as spirit form to human carnal understanding.
But Jesus also said that "where two or three are gathered in my name, surely I am there" Jesus appearance here is in the form of a spirit force. . . . which can be likened to the holy spirit. does that make Jesus a force and not a person?

3. If Jesus is the Prince of Peace . . . .who then is Melchisedec, the king of peace?

4. Jesus is called the "only begotten" . . . .meaning Godlike. Jesus called the holy spirit "another comforter" . . .which implies another Godlike person.

5. The presence of the holy spirit which is often mistaken as a force is just a consequence of not understanding the omnipotence of God. if we believe that God is omnipotent, why do we then ascribe His presence to a mere "force".

6. Jesus asked that new converts be baptised in the name of the father, son and holy spirit . .  . . .why would he ask that we be baptised in the name of a force and 2 persons.

7. Paul wrote that the holy spirit prays for us with groanings that that cannot be uttered . . . this sounds like a person praying and not force.

mazaje:
All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9)

this thread will not be complete without ur input.


@ OP

They are too many. I dont know which one to pick . . . .but the most humbling verse IMO is 1 john1: 5-10

^^ ok. privacy respected

mazaje:
Yes Africa is FAR more religious that the USA and the UAE. . . . .

how religious is Africa? when did christianity or islam come into Africa?
The likes of USA and UK built their conventional national systems based on religious beliefs. Yet they are advanced and well developed.

The poll u showed is very faulty. is africa more religious than Saudi arabia? with all nationals as muslims and islam their biggest tourist attraction, which nation is more religious than them?. . None. Yet they are materially developed but intellectually backward.

Africa's problems is not caused by religion but by a lack of visionary leadership.

and where is deepsight?

this is not true. . . is africa more religious than the USA? or even UAE, dubai?

Deep Sight:
^^^ Nevertheless that is a story which contains stark internal inconsistencies that must trouble the objective and rational reader.

Here Goes.

Genesis Chapter 6.

1. And it came to pass when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them

2. That the sons of God saw the daughters of men - that they were fair, and they took them wives as they chose

Q: SONS OF GOD? ? ? DO MY EYES DECEIVE ME? WHAT DOES THIS SAY ABOUT CHRIST'S SUPPOSED UNIQUE HYPOSTASIS? HOW DOES THIS SQUARE WITH THE TERM "MONOGENES"? ? ?

The term SONS of God has many biblical connotations.

1. Jesus is described as the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON of God. This means that He is the only God-like "creature" in existence . . .that explains the Christian ideology that Jesus is God.

2. The angels are described as sons of God. . .but in the context of MESSENGERS. They are not heirs of the kingdom, they are not begotten of God, they are created beings who serve the Father. They would be judged by the ADOPTED sons of God in due time. Angels are referred to as the sons of God in a very different context to Jesus or earthly Christians.

3. Christians are referred to as the sons of God because they have been adopted by God for believing in Jesus. They are the heirs of eternal life. They have more authority than angels, they will judge the angels and will serve as kings and priests in the kingdom of God.

I hope that clarifies ur questions on the sons of God.

3. And the Lord God said: My spirit shall not always strive with man: for that he also is flesh - yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years.

Q: Interprete what the Lord God is driving at here.

If you consider that prior to this statement, man had lived for hundreds of years before dying. . see the case of Adam (930 years) and Methuselah (960 years)

5: And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth: and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually

6: And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the Earth and it grieved him at his heart.

Q: Is it really conceivable for a perfect God, an unchangeable God, to "repent" of his actions? How does this square with his supposed omniscience? That he was omniscient supposes that he knew that things would turn out as such, and knew that he would grieve, and repent of making man - and yet went ahead - and then began to repent of his actions? This is an absurdity. This shows that the construct of God derived from the OT is incongruous.

Your Submission is very faulty.

The same free-will man abused to become evil is the same free-will that angels use with wisdom to remain in the presence of God. The scriptures clearly teach that God does not want the death of sinners but wishes that all would repent. God repented of creating man because of man's refusal to repent of his evil deeds. does this repentance erode the omniscient of God? . . , No it does not. . because God already told Adam that the day u eat if this fruit, you shall die . . . .that death (which is a separation from God) is what brought evil into the world.

Deep Sight:
As described in scripture, I have the impression that its more of a Force. Like God's will in action.

I am not aware of any scripture that suggests the aforementioned? please explain . . ,

nopuqeater:
Didnt Jesus say that the Holy spirit will speak and people will hear him, teaching, correcting and showing everything, as God is the One Who Speaks to him, and he only just say what he was told? Where is his book of what he was told by God, which he simply repeated without adding his own?

please dont u dare suggest that ur pae.dophile mohammed is the holy spirit? . . . please spare us that excreta.

where is debosky and other pathetic deniers of researched reality?

@ OP

The fact stated in the OP has been in circulation for a very long time. its just pitiable that many choose to discard it.

but spirit beings dont engage in sex (unless they take bodily form) . . .or do they?

If u refer to our dwelling in heaven . . then there is no basis for sexual temptation, .
but if u refer to our earthly reign at Christ's millennium rule . . . , there would be females like u highlighted. . . . but God had already decreed it a peaceful and righteous reign and so shall it be.

Akwasi:
It has never failed. There has never been an exception. During my prayer sessions, whenever I imagine the FATHER on HIS throne, I begin to weep like a baby. This goes on even when my wife is around me. It will happen when I am praying with my fellow church members.

Has it happened to you before? The irony of the issue is whenever I finish crying, I feel this joy that is always reserved for those moments.

Please chip in if you have experienced this before.

May God bless you.

Yes I have. Also try and imagine Jesus bleeding on the cross just before His death. . .u would feel the same emotion.

The OP is an embarrassment to those who worship at or love or are sympathetic to celestial. the whole idea of celestial versus all other churches is just plain stupid and ridiculous.
and whats the noise about candles? . . do u use ur candles without prayers? and whats the noise about the OT injunctions? are they to be the doctrines of latter day Christianity made up of those saved by grace alone?

You need to personally find and walk with God in a personal non religious (Celestial) way . CCC was founded for a purpose and that purpose is known to the creator, ur illiteracy will not propagate the will of God.

finally I will see the return of kunleOshob on NL . . this is his favourite subject of discourse

MyJoe:
Recall the angels in Genesis who could not keep their flies zipped after peeping at some helele babes bathing in the river? Now, they won't agree with you!

The bible described their sin as "Having left their abode" . . , implying that they simply disobeyed the commandments of God by leaving their heavenly abode. It is not a sin to pro-create, though its a sin to lust and fornicate.

That said . . .I believe I have already established basis to believe that angels and heavenly beings do have free will . . , else why would the scriptures state that we shall judge the angels?

Pastor AIO:
But that useful piece by dint of being so convoluted does exactly what Noetic's post above does, ie. exposes the whole notion as ludicrous nonsense.

or perhaps u did not understand the subject of discourse.

@ "Pastor AIO"

Surely you can see that free will is not compatible with Omniscience.

On the contrary, they both go hand in hand. God uses His omniscient ability to determine that you would commit a holocaust in 2017 . . . .but offers you repentance and salvation (by noetic's preaching) All you can do is either go ahead with ur holocaust agenda or accept His gift of repentance and salvation. Your choice is called FREE WILL. God's ability to see this future event is called OMNISCIENT. They go hand in hand.

ps. And neither have biblical foundations.

This is FALSE.

When Christ preached His gospel, He simply asked all men to use their free will. john 3:16 states that IF ANY MAN BELIEVES. . . , this implies that if by the volition of free will, any man chooses to believe in the gospel of JC, he shall be saved.

In 1 corth 2:10 we know that the spirit searches EVERYTHING including the deep unknown things of God. We are also told of the ability of this spirit to know the future and bring His will/prophecies to pass Zech 4:6

Tudór:
Small question noetic; Will there be free will in heaven?
Do angels have free will too?

OF course there will be . . .but its quite different there. As we would have put off the corruptible and put on the incorruptible . . .there will be no basis for lustful desires of the flesh.
but since we will all be of a sane mind and with independent thoughts. . .we would all have our free will. Remember that the scriptures also assert that we shall judge the angels. what would we judge them of, if they had no free will?

Pastor AIO:
If it was certain that I would commit that crime then preempting it be fully within God's rights. You are treating God as if he were a human judge, with human limitations. If it is certain that I will do something then that is as good as having done it already. [b]However if there is a chance that I might not do it, then it is worth waiting to see if I do it before sentencing me. [/b]As God is omniscient he doesn't live in a world of probabilities/possibilities, but in a world of certainty.

This is what God does and calls your FREE WILL. . .this process is called ut trial . . . .meanwhile He sends noetic to you to teach u about repentance. The ultimate choice u make is what determines ur fate. . . .its has nothing to do with the omniscient of God but the free will of man.

Tudór:
^^
Losing a family member to death is not 'nothing'.

but turning the condolence message into a religious stuff is disgusting. . , .why not just sympathise with them in ur own words.

Pastor AIO:
does an omniscient God need to test people. Tests are for human beings, teachers who need to know how much their pupils have learnt, whether or not to pass them on to the next grade, whether or not they are ready for the world of employment. God, being omniscient, doesn't need tests, he already knows whether or not we'll pass, he knows what we are made of.

Did God test job in order to prove to himself that Job was faithful, or did he test Job in order to prove to the adversary (Satan) that he was faithful?

How would u feel if God were to kill you now and dump u in hell because of a heinous crime u are yet to commit in 7 years time?
While God remains omniscient. . . . trials are used by God to help man obtain a state of realisation.

davidylan:
I think the OP (i may be wrong) is in the category of those who have already made up their minds. i.e. - God "allows" suffering so automatically He either doesnt exist, does not care about man or is a wicked tyrant.

This is sadly true . . . .as I expect mazaje, tudor et all to jump in and make the above conclusion.

Its funny that when it comes to "suffering", the atheist is quick to pull up the Job issue. He/she is only too happy to frame it as a meaningless battle over the egos of mythical "gods" who do not care about the consequences on poor Job. But a quick read of the book of Job enlightens us to the fact that Job was a very close confidante of God. Would God then be wrong to set him an exam to prove him?

GBAM!!!

davidylan:
Its interesting that no one has mentioned the giant elephant in the room - that most times suffering is DUE to the consequences of our own actions. Lot suffered in Sodom and gomorah (lost his wife and possessions) . . . but HE chose sodom! David lost his first child with bathsheba after all the tears and prayer - but he commited murder just to get to that woman.

and on and on and on you can give so many examples. Most often times christians are victims of their own wrong decisions but proceed to blame God for allowing suffering. It is NOT suffering if you fail to pass your exams and end up in poverty . . .

Quite true . . .but this was what I deduced from the OP when he mentioned FREE WILL

jus console the bereaved in ur own heart-felt words and stop making an issue out of nothing

ilosiwaju:
Pardon me if I sound like a broken record on this suffering thing but there are some issues that we should not just fold our arms upon. One that am so particular about is the concept of suffering especially from the biblical point of view. Over time, people have devised smart answers to address this obvious problem and such answers include:

a. God is testing us- This view is still widely-held among christians but my reservation is that some of these tests come too harsh and they never end. So what's the point if you never get a chance to use the lesson learnt(e.g. dying in the suffering).

b. God is punishing sin- Quite intellectual for the early biblical scholars and adherents but the fact that good people suffer too puts a hole in this theory.

c. Free will- The free will vs predestination thread on NL is one of the finest discussions i have read on this forum though i was nothing more than an observer. Free will? Yes free will! Since God gave humans free will, why then should we blame him if someone like Hitler or Stalin decides to use his free will to inflict massive pain and torture on fellow humans in large numbers? This is fairly reasonable but also fails on further dissection. History(according to the bible, that is) has proven that God often gets involved to intercept some not-well-meaning acts of free will e.g saving Israelites from Pharaoh, masterminding the escape of Joseph and Mary from Herod to save baby Jesus. Why then was he quiet during the holocaust? (let's stick to the holocaust because as big as the world is, the jews happen to be his "chosen" people.) A baby being born with a heart disease is a suffering which I find incompatible with the free will hypothesis.

Nice thread I must say . . . but lets be clear on the posers u raised.

1. If you see the bigger picture, then u would find it plausible as to why man would face trials. God has promised man an eternal life. let us assume "eternal life  = 1,000,000 years" and the highest any man has ever lived is 960 years (methusellah). if a man faces several trials in this limited 960 years, all as an oil to lubricate him into eternal life, was it not worth it? We face trials so that we may know God more and better. David testified of this in psalm 119:71 . ,  David also acknowledged in verse 75 that his afflictions are within the knowledge of God. The case of David is quite interesting, cos before he was afflicted, God had already promised him the throne. why then would God permit a future king to face affliction and live in the wilderness as a destitute for 3 years? The ultimate wisdom in God's decision can be best understood by David's eventual commitment and love for the laws of God that made him a man after God's heart. God also tells that He refines His generals from the furnace of affliction.

2. Sin is a negative catalyst that alters the natural course of things. For when God made everything, He made it good. but the result of sin is eternal damnation and inherent imperfection in todays world. if we define suffering in its context, we would come up with synonyms like poverty, hunger, homelessness, orphanage, diseases, joblessness, lack of basic infrastructure et all. The opposite of this synonyms is perfection . . . this IMO was what God created in the genesis account of creation.

3. Free will remains at the prerogative of the subject. . . .but the boundaries of free will are clearly defined . . . .for instance no mortal being can choose not to die. However, free will is also influenced by the spiritual. I find myself singing praises, I believe that my heart was prompted by the holy spirit to worship. so also does the likes of Hitler get influenced by satanic forces to commit all forms of evil. I dont think it is fair to suggest that God was quite during the holocaust . . . .to say so is to assume that one knows the total plans and intent of Adolf Hitler and his cohorts. Fine, we do know that he wanted the extermination of the jews, but through it all we saw that God (as He usually does) left a remnant for the jews. This singular holocaust led to the establishment of the jewish state of Israel. This was a prophecy made long ago. . . .so we can say that, while Hitler had his evil intentions, God intervened (i.e used the situation) to bring one of His prophecies to pass, like we saw in the case of Job. Where satan wanted to destroy Job, but God permitted the trial in order to make Job a worthy and tried vessel.

Instead, I want to hear juicy perspectives of the christian as to the problems of suffering. We can use Job as a classic example of this anatomy of Christian suffering.

When Job attempted to ask God why he had to go through so much suffering ,   .God replied by asking him, if job knew how the foundation of the world was laid?. . .by this question, God was highlighting the inability of man to have an understanding of the works and purpose of God;s works.

No two sufferings are the same, no two trials are the same. . .many suffer as a result of sin, others as a result of disobedience and others as a trial and others simply suffer en-route their break through. For instance, the challenges and trials I have faced personally in life . . .I asked God why . . . and He was kind enough to answer me.

debosky:
Come up with something original - If I have expressed my opinion, move on and stop playing defender of the universe.

I have not bombarded anything, all I have stated clearly is that there is no truth in the title - Obama, by virtue of being a US president is not deceiving anyone, but simply doing what all US presidents have done. The only ignorance on display here is an assumption that Obama would be any different from others before him.

did u see that documentary at all?

^^^ Noetic will never endorse idolatry

yes its one and the same noetic. . .I was banned on several occasions for daring to air my opinion. . . .why did u ask?

nopuqeater:
^^^Ode idumota noetics is here with his nonsense. This man who doesnt know that when you wear clothing, if you have shoes, they are cosmetically allowable is ignoring the fact that Jesus said there is One God Lord Who is the same God Lord of his listeners, even if he had quoted it from the OT who also beieved the same, shows that some verses mirror verses from Quran, in their essence. This is what the poster said. Not the lies of am god, you are god, we are all gods, and there are three gods and a begooten son of god, when all of you fight tooth and nail to deny that the god mother wasnt mounted as a man mounts a woman to get her pregnant for their baby, when your ghost god said "I will come over you and overshadow you" to Mary.

what has shoes got to do with ur folly and malady? and what is the sense in the above?

Do you think or is there a dumber person that you, darn hypocrite with stone for a brain?

I am actually not dumb. . , as I can construct an argument and make sense of it. . .can you? and what makes me a hypocrite? do u know the meaning of the word hypocrite?

Proof where Jesus said from his own mouth that he is God deserving to be worshipped or he was the Creaor or was there when creation started or before creation started, you laute? darn sele barefooted goat! I hope england allows you to use your brain or they are dopping you up with aro people medicine, the reason everything that is the truth is always "dumb" to you? maa binu. o je kin soro sie lori. lol Noetic o. omo langidi.

what has cele got to do with this? who told u I am cele? . . . . .you were asked to show how Jesus is not God and u come here to rant about cele? what a goat.

debosky:
I am not asking for his 'case' to be dismissed- his 'crusade' against Obama is puzzling, since nothing he is accusing Obama of is new - why the focus on Obama as if he promised to be a 'Christian' president and not simply the president of America?

There is no 'Obama deception' - he is doing what all other US presidents have done, no different.

Where are his threads on Sarkozy, Cameron (where he lives) and Putin/Medvedeev?

are u this dumb? all u have done above is to express ur opinion. . .just like OLA has done . . . . whats the difference between both assertions? at least OLA presented documented facts. . . but u just come here to bombard us with innuendos and expect us to swallow such as facts. . . .I would excuse ur ignorance in this case

debosky:
Don't be silly - I am talking about OLA's attacks on Obama, not on general internet comments.

and according to ur highly esteemed self. . .OLA's case should be dismissed because he has raised nothing against bush. . , .dude, are u for real?