₦airaland Forum

olabowale:
@noetic2: « #14 on: Today at 11:05:33 PM »   Of couse, it is your opinion, regardless of the fact that it has no truth. Did you see my factual statement, and not opinion when where I said the vultures will come out? See that I was not wrong? The same way Shaitan and his shayatini come out from every direction, to stand against truth.

nairaland prominent muslims are ALL trolls. . .  .thats my opinion. . . .thats a FACT. . . .  .ur opinion or acceptance of this fact makes little or no difference.

The topic is killing in islam. No? And from the Quran I draw out a scenerio of the first killing between disbelief and upon belief, while islam was initially established on Adam (AS) you said no, it has nothing to do with it! Are you for real or you are just jiving?

u keep shooting aimlessly.

Why should it be? Have you heard about the law of retribution? Have you heard that people do demand their due rights? Justice is the ability to practice what is just, considering that action may need an equal reaction to mentain an atmosphere of equilibum. Just is not always blind, you know, it must and should always be just. A killer could be killed if he killed unjustly and the victim's family or the society demands it or it will help to mentain and actas cautionary measure against advancing evil acts.

a. did allah write the law of retribution? why cant these people take their demands to allah? why kill someone else?

b. by taking the law into their own hands, does that not seem to suggest that allah is a powerless idol?

c. who decides when equilibrum is maintained? is equilibrum maintained only when non-muslims are killed?

The big deal of my questions in this regard is that I simply CANNOT understand why anyone would kill anyone. why would muslims leave the mosque on friday and then embark on a killing spree? why do they have to kill at all? why is LOVE not an option? why cant u show love and temper justice with mercy?
It is even a BIGGER DEAL that both allah and mohammed endorsed this.

Quran from Allah expressed three ways to deal with a situation where a life is lost t a killer, if it is not a just killing: The killer could be killed after a thorough investigation hoping to find a way that he could be found not guilty. The other option is that even though he is already found guilty, the family of the deceased can be paid what is known as "blood money" if they so choose, which may compensate for the income or gain that is lost as a result of the dead not bringing in the "food money anymore." The last option, which is the nobliest is that that the family of the deceased leaves the killer alone, without asking for his life or asking for blood money. They give him wholesale amnesty for the sake of Allah. I see that you never have came acrossed this before? I[/b]ts in the Quran, different from the Jewish eye for an eye, or the Christians only by the lips and never will be carried out impossible turn the other cheek.

You are right. . .as a matter of FACT I have NEVER come across this before. . . for a muslim to show mercy. can u show me where it is in ur koran? and also tell me why muslims never practise it?
why does allah have to give three options? why does allah not just tell muslims to forgive and forget it all? is it because allah is a blood-thirsty person? why is islam riddled in violence?

[b]It helps to curb evil, serves as revenge/rather as avenge when innocent people are murdered and the family wants the fitting punishment. It also can be carried out by the state when a spreader of evil is creating chaotic condition and the insanity is getting to the people. You may need to remove the cancer from the society!

This is false. Have u ever heard that "Those who kill by the swod shall die by the sword"
can u give ONE example in modern history where an islamic killing has helped curbed evil? where there was no retaliation? where there was no ill feeling on the part of the respondent?

why is this "evil" not being curbed in the UK and US? does that imply that islamic killings are only justifiable in islamic environments?

For example the Iraqi people felt that it will be better for Saddam Hussaine be killed. Thats part of their fr the good of the society. Afterall, he is no more to be the "symbol" of what the government calls the Opposition. At least they think it lessened the violence that could still rage on, considering he was a former head of state, a leader and beloved by a large pull of people, that the current leadership of the Sunni! I used him, so that I can best express what it means "for the good of the society."

This is a LIE.

Saddam Hussein was sentenced to death in a duly certified court of law. He was NEVER tried under islamic or sharia law. . . and the people of iraq never had a say in the fate of saddam hussein.

So, Give us an example of how one can kill "for the good of the society"? how has a person been killed for societal good in an islamic environment? what were the benefits of killing such when weighed against the demerits?

What do you mean? You want the muslims to behave like the Christians? The Christian do say that they do forgive; but man, Crusaders killed all the way from Europe to Jerusalem. The Christianssay they forgive, but in their inquisition, they killed everyone or were forced to convert. I remember a woman i do business with in Spain. her last name is Madina, so I say salaama to her. She looked at me as if I was speaking Yoruba language. She is russian, except that she told me her husband's family were muslims before inquisition and they had to convert to christianity or be kiled! I say poor iman they had; disbeliefing is worse than death. Where were you hat you have not heard about the two world wars, and all the evils pepetrated by Christans countries, including the atrocity of the Christian missionaries, with Bible in one hand and death all the way in the other? Please dont humor me? Show me christianity and i will tell you that it brought nothing less than eah, lies, cheat, isobedience to God and yes indeed death and oppression on mankind.

I did not ask u about christians. . . .or did I?

the question remains. . .why is peace making not an option to a "believer"? why the many killings?

Allah is cool with it.

toneyb:
Did you say this to display your deranged stupidity or do you really believe in what you have written down? The rotation of the earth on its axis causes day and night it doesn't require ANY belief because it has been going on for billions of years.

You are a pathetic FOOL. I do not chose to conclude the earth rotates on its axis and that causes day and night my conclusion has nothing to do with that fact.

The earth rotates on its axis and it has nothing to do with what I believe. Did you just come here to display your stupidity or do you really believe in the nonsense you have written above?

what is this clown saying?

did u say anything to disprove the fact that all u have is called FAITH that there would be a tomorrow?

toneyb:
Just as you believe that god suddenly came out of nothing to create everything isn't that a retarded shit? By the way who told you that atheism = everything suddenly came out of nothing? Most atheist simply say they don't know.

is that because most of em are dumb?

toneyb:
The messiah they are waiting for is definitely NOT jesus.

will u shut up?

do u know that they are awaiting a messiah? that some of them do not accept Jesus as their messiah does not stop Jesus from being the messiah.
that u dont accept mazaje to be a dullard. . .does not stop him from being a dullard. . . .or does it?

Abuzola:
U dey craze o noetic why do you like disguising, the other time you said it was grace, now only christ changed. What happen to the 3 gods and the battles the prophets fought. What happen to the so called aggressive to tame God. You better tighten your nut

what are u saying?

toneyb:
According to who exactly? The torah which is the holy book of the jews says no such thing. Christianity is a different religion from judaism because jews do not believe in the christian god(jesus). Jews and christians do not even worship the same god because jews do not believe in jesus(christian god) at all.

but the jews are awaiting a messiah. . . .or are they not?

Abuzola:
Do you even know the meaning of incest ? How does what you quote relate with incest ? Nawa o

so what is the koran version of the incest stories in the bible?

toneyb:
Was christ not also teaching about a new religion and god different from judaism?

ur description of old testament worship is what u call Judaism. . . .neither God nor the prophets told u they were practising Judaism.

The mode of relationship with God was what changed with the coming of Christ. why is that so difficult to assimilate?

toneyb:
How do you who asked the question know that a fire ball might come and destroy the earth?

Did you just say this because you wanted to display you deluded stupidity or because you truly believe in what you have written? The earth rotates on its axis and has been doing that for billions of years. Rotation of the earth on it's axis causes day and night. That is my evidence that another day will come because is on constant rotation. Sure the evidence that tomorrow will come is that the earth is rotating on its axis it requires no faith that you keep forcing your deluded mind into thinking it does require faith does not mean it does.

Is this part of your stupidity or has your pathetic delusion reached new hights? . I know that there will be tommorow because the earth is rotating on its axis and has been doing so for billions of years. There is more than enough evidence to show that the earth is rotating on its axis. I might not live to see it but it will definitely come.

The earth is rotating on its axis and that is the evidence that you need that another day will come. But as usual I know that you will come up with some more deluded and pathetic analogies that only make you sound more stupid, pathetic and desperate.

** yawns ** I have heard this meaningless tales over a million times. 

Why cant the rotation of the earth be the basis for believing that tomorrow will not come?
do u recognise the power of ur choice?. . . . . .based on the evidence that the earth rotates. . .u choose to conclude that tomorrow will be. . . , based on that same evidence MR AAA concludes that tomorrow will NOT be.

What u have both exercised is called FAITH.

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=307334.msg4330357#msg4330357 date=1249935725]If your so called experience cannot be proven or tested thats considered delusion until you show otherwise.
Can you show otherwise noetic?[/quote]what do u mean by "proven" and "tested" ?

how exactly do u prove? to whom?

olabowale:
Davidylan: I ignored Noetic deliberately because he does not know the difference between Muslims and trolls or in your case dross! Further, am sometimes very busy, and i do not have time for the Christian vultures to come from the front, the back, the left and the right of me, like Allah says of what Shaitan promised that he will do to the children of Adam (AS) in his effort to confuse them as he waylay them from the Straight path, making roadblocks that will make the greater majority not to enter Paradise, by their not accepting Islam of their life time! Read this in Surah Araf, after Shaitan says arrogantly that he was better than Adam, who was created from Dirt, Soil, Mud, etc (earth) and he shaitan from smokeless fire.

It was to avoid misconceptions that I invited only u (as a muslim) to this thread. I am free to express my opinion on the others. . . . If I call them trolls. . . so be it. Its my opinion.

However if i were to answer Noetic, I will tell him that the first killer on earth was cain, a disbeliever, who was induced to doing so by Shaitan (his first earthly act to make sure that at least 50% do not enter Islam), to kill Abel, his own blood brother, a believer who submitted fully to his Creator.

This is in the Quran, and I am almost certain you will find it in Surah Baqarah. You see that the first killer killed with injustice. He will end up in hellfire. The first martyr was a muslim and he will enter Paradise.

This has little or no business with the thread.

However if a believer should kill a person, it should be for justice, just revenge and for the good of the society at large. And the first aggressor between the muslims and disbelievers, during the time of Muhammad (AS) was the disbelievers of makka, who oppressed, tortured and indeed killed men and women of the new and young Muslim faith, which was on its way to be completed in a process that started with the first human, Adam (AS) and passed through all the prophets without a single time that the core message of that process changed (Laa ilaha ilallah)!

I have questions that need clarifications. . . .

a. why should a "believer" kill in the first place?

b. why is forgiveness not an option to a believer? why must a "believer" take revenge? why is revenge not left to allah?

c. how justifiable is killing in islam?

d. tell us how one can kill "for the good of the society" like u stated above?

e. why is peace making not an option to a "believer"? why the many killings?

f. under what conditions would u (olabowale) kill for allah?

toneyb:
Was paul not talking about new concepts that were not part of judaism?

how EXACTLY was his concept different from the proclamations of Christ?

Abuzola:
Ignore ? Hulahula, now i see you ignore me abi ? Lol.
Incase you are half blind pls take time and read my penultimate post above. If you talk sensible am gonna do the same and if you turn brutal then am gonna show am more osciliated than your ego. Many christians are pondering about their christianity thanks to me. Many crazy things in the bible

why not answer my question? are u afraid?

kody da pretty gal

hez a charmer

Abuzola:
Mo gbona felifeli  ! My questions are shakeable, up till now i have not seen any single person whether a muslim or an atheist that can screw the christian with biblical fact they dare not to reject like me. Your oga mrs osisi have tried but abortive,

it is either you lie to answer my question without quoting from the bible or insult so as to divert the topic of discourse.

smile.

why do u think most people ignore ur comments but respond to olabowale?

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=307334.msg4330309#msg4330309 date=1249935263]I do not know if the earth will stop next week.

If you tell me Tudor the earth stops tomorrow.
Even though from experience i expect the earth to keep rotating all i can do is wait for tomorrow.
If then you say in the next 10 years the world would end, unless you can provide evidence to that effect[b] i'll definately stick to what i've experienced[/b].If winds do actually blow at 10:30am every morning then so be it.
BTW wind is air in motion. . . .it wouldn't be far fetched for we to have air moving around continiously no matter how small. [/quote]so why is this dogma not acceptable when christians apply it to their belief in GOD?. . . . ,

you are helplessly riddled in contradicting hypocrisy.

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=307334.msg4330214#msg4330214 date=1249934123]As usual you're desperately looking for a hook to hang your hat. . .

Science has shown that the earth has been rotating for thousands of years and this to us is the natural order of things there's no reason to believe it'll suddenly stop. If it does fine, it'll be a new experience and then we'll always make room for that possibility in the future.
Just like gravity when you throw a stone, you naturally expect it to come down that is not faith but expectation proven through experience.

Quite unlike your ridiculous analogy, winds don't necessarily blow at 10:30am each day.[/quote]This is false and very very very embarrassing.

1. Hoe EXACTLY do u know that the earth would not stop rotating? is there any reason to believe that it would not stop?

2. do u actually know the meaning of experience? experience refers to past events. . . . experience has NO connection with future events.
when u attempt to use the past to determine the future. . . . u are said to have FAITH.
what differs is the subject of ur faith.

3. There is no scientific evidence that as at yet suggests that there would be a tomorrow. If there is one, can u please draw my attention to it.

toneyb:
You have just confirmed what I was talking about, Paul who is one of the founding fathers of christianity was showing the jews the difference between the new god and religion he was talking about and their own religion concerning the laws of sin and death.

Same as above. Paul was preaching a new religion it is expected of him to show some diference between the religion that was already in existence with the new religion he was preaching about no?


Grace is a new concept invented by paul as a guy preaching a new religion so it is expected of him to talk about it and how it relates to the old religion that was already in existence. The jews do not believe in any of these things.

The same things you keep telling yourselves so that you will feel happy. Personal relationship is a two way thing no?

It beats me how u try to make sense from ur world view. . . which is usually very very wrong.

how EXACTLY was Paul trying to create a new religion?

@ Abuzola

@noetic- you have been shown the truth refuting all what you presume, but your arrogancy won't make you believe nor heed

Whats the truth? and who showed me?

bawomolo:
noetic - do you think jews worship God?

is there any reason to believe that they dont?

mazaje:
Most of what you have been writing on nairaland could be described as LIES. . . . . .

When people read your post the see all the lies that lies therein. . . .

Here are about two amongst the many manylies that are inside the bible. . . . . The bible tells lies when it says that adam is the first man to be created. . . and that some day the stars from the sky will fall into the earth. . . . .

When did i ever say that i believe in evolution?

I don't know and neither you or the lying writers of the bible who said that the sun moves around the earth. . . .

Why should i believe what bronze aged people write without any evidence at all? As Tudor has said faith without evidence is very irrelevant. . . why believe in the lies of other men just because they say that you need to believe in them?

The universe as it it says that the bible god did has nothing to do with its creation. . . . the universe as it it makes the bible god look to small and insignificant. . . .Unless of you believe things without evidence at all. . . . .

Do the lying writers of genesis have any idea how the universe came into existence?

Look at how this SHAMELESS fraud skipped every of the questions . . . . .

a. You cannot define "lies". . . . that tells that u are delusive ignorant of the issues at stake. how then do u know the bible is lying?

b. If Adam was the not the first parent? who was? how did the pioneer parents come into existence?

c. How exactly do u know that the stars would not fall?

d. since u dont believe in evolution. . .what EXACTLY do u believe in? care to define ur beliefs?

e. Dont u consider ur self helplessly ignorant not to know how the universe began?

mazaje:
The bible is exactly what it is the writings, ideas, fantasies thoughts and wishes of ancient men.  . . . .All I know about the bible is backed up by actual facts, not some subjective claim of magic. . . . .   The bible is like any book other book the only differennce is that it contains the word god as its central figure. The book indeed can be interpreted any way one sees fit if you can claim a magical way.

If the bible is from some omnipotent being then there is no reason it shouldn’t be able to make a book good for all generations to adhere to without the god having to change himself as the reasoning and life style of the people changes. . . . .   What we have is a in the bible is a book which is mostly  a compilation of stories by xenophobic, war mongers and agrarians, and then later by more cosmopolitan people but  still by people all around all using words that mean certain things that people now insist aren’t what god “really meant” and people who cherry pick whatever they want to believe in and discard what they don't want to believe in.

The bible is a book about a central figure called god which can be used or interpreted purely based on the personal interpretation of the reader and the image of the god he/she has in her mind. . . Most Christians claims the "holy spirit" tells them what  the god of the bible "really meant" but the problem is they each have different answers. Same with everyone else and there is no way to tell who has the right message since the god they are always talking about and speaking on his belahf doesnt' ever seem interested in telling everyone who is right and who is wrong, only each person claiming that they and only they have it right. Most dont even agree on the basic nature of the god they are talking about and they all use the bible.

So the bible is just a collection of stories about life from a very skwed perspective written by people, complied by people and used by people to present a case for their personal god based on their personal interpretation of the bible and what they feels it says. . . . .The bible is just a book written by humans who want people to believe their opinions about life and who also want people to live their lives based on their own opinion and the opinions of people that lived before them but using a god figure to put every body that agrees with their personal opinion in line. . . .

I cant make any sense out of this. . . . where is the alternative u are attempting to present?

Ogaga4Luv:
@Noetic2
ha ha. . .! whatever"eye roll"-and dont let him/her know my inner feelings and reaction  ,because right now,if he hear's i think that's pretty cool.

whats the meaning of the above? . , , . . .u hardly make sense anymore.

wirinet:
Jamiru, I decided not to respond anymore to Noetic's question because i will hate to undertake an exercise in futility, noetic has template responses and questions to all issues concerning evolution and science in General. We would just be moving in a vicious cycle, he will ask questions like how was the first inorganic compound formed, even if you explain and write the equation, he will still ask were you there to witness it?. It is impossible explaining scientific terms to a person who never understood any science more complex than integrated science.

why do u actually love disgracing urself? you have not said anything to make anyone believe that u studied ANYTHING close to science. . .or have u?

Noetic questions are very basic, so as not to accuse me of running away i will answer them, but i know a barrage of other cynic questions will follow;

Well, considering the ridiculous quality of ur post. . .I think it is fair I ask subsequent questions. . . .
why do u think my questions are basic? they are basic because it is the best means of revealing ur ignorance.
If I have any reason to think or assume that u know evolution, then I would probably ask u more detailed questions. ur post reflects a "google-educated" evolutionists.

As i had had explained earlier, it is very absurd and cynical  to ask if  someone observed physically, the first first chemical reaction of life. The only way a such chemical reactions can be inferred is through experiments like the Miller Experiment which was able to create all 20 protein forming amino acids necessary for life, and through the discovery of amino acids and many organic compounds in meteorites brought in from space, meaning a similar process occurred in the planets from which the meteor broke off. Also Jupiter is[b] suspected [/b]to be awash with amino acids and organic compounds ( not life). So the process of simple inorganic compounds forming complex organic compound is fairly common in the universe. The compounds involved in the formation of life is Amino acids, phosphate groups, Ribose and Deoxyribose Sugars, bases,  Glucose, etc. These compounds dissolved in the primordial oceans to form "The Primordial Soup". And continuous and polymerization went on to produce the first RNA .

a. whats the meaning of the rubbish above? did I ask if some one observed it? I just wanted to know the basis and level of observation of the pioneer evolution process. If no one observed it, how then is it qualified to be called science? science is both observable and repeatable.

b. ur knowledge of evolution is very porous. All u have done is to make up false assumptions, to satisfy preconceived notions. How EXACTLY do u know that there are amino acids in jupiter? is this not a mere assumption? does it make sense that u have used this unverifiable assumption to buttress an un-observed and un-verified pioneer evolution process. or is there something else I am missing?

RNA is autocatalytic, meaning that once RNA forms by accidental dehydration, can catalyze the formation of complimentary RNA chain. Short strands of RNA(virus) were probably the first self reproducing systems(life) to come into being on the young earth. In RNA strand was protected by a sheath of specific proteins.  From there the RNA and proteins went on to form more complex organisms and DNA.

[b]This experiments cannot be replicated today due to the enormous size of the laboratory ( the entire earth), [/b]the very high density of the early earth's atmosphere, the relatively high temperature and the time span needed ( about half a billion years).

a. u keep missing the whole point. We know what RNA means and its self-replicating nature. . . . but since it was part of the first substances that made the pioneer evolution happen. . .why not tell us how the very first RNA was formed, before it became self-replicating.

b. Since according to u, this experiment is not repeatable, can I safely assume that this experiment never took place originally (big bang)?
can I safely assume that since the original experiment was not observed, is not repeatable, recordable and reproducible. . .I can safely state that this process (EVOLUTION) is not scientific or in any way related to science, but a mere fiction, just like harry porter.

This question had been answered above

NO. . .  .u did not answer the question. . . .
How EXACTLY did non-living organisms produce living organisms?
HINT: IT IS BIOLOGICALLY IMPOSSIBLE.

By not noticeable, i mean the process is too slow to be noticed with the naked eye within the time frame we are viewingShort lived plants and animals change physical characteristics like colour when placed in a different environment to adapt to that environment.Had already explained it above, but if you want details google "how to make amino acids"

a. So how exactly do we then know that this process exists. . . since we cannot verify it with our naked eyes?

b. u simply dont know how amino acids were originally formed. The truth is that the first evolution process simply did NOT take place.
If u cannot scientifically analyse the origin of the simple and complex chemical substances that allowed for this evolutionary process. . then u are making no sense.

Aremugangan:
@noetic, if Allah whom you cal satan could reveal a book he promised to preserve and he did preserved it even make the book to be free from errors and also fulfill the promises in it even til date, don't you have doubt about your jehovah?

a. did u say free from errors? how many times has mohammed's plagiarised book been ripped apart on this forum?
all the false assertions of allah and mohammed.

b. what exactly did allah preserve? the book goats ate?

c. how could allah promise his faithful hell fire? my bible says hell is the judgement home of satan. . .therefore satan is allah, . . .they both belong to hell.

Aremugangan:
@OP. I assume the answer you want is negative. Therefore i will not let you down; the answer is "NO".
@noetic, can you please tel us the christians mode of worship since muslims don't worship?. You guys are funny. You just like starting what you can't finish.

whats my business with whether u worship or not? The point is that u worship the moon god called allah . . . .and we all know that. so?

olabowale:
@Davidylan: Continue to deceive yourself. Qulub is heart. Read Ayat 10 of Surah Baqarah and see the end of those whose hearts reject Islam. Dey dere.

@$Osisi and Noetic:« #61 on: Yesterday at 11:24:43 PM »   Two prayers that will never rise beyond the lips of those who made them. And the Hijaba has been pulled to vail it from ever rising to the samaah and never will Sultan lil Arsh accept t. Amin Yaa Rabbil Alammin. My face belong only for the worship of Al Rahman, the One created it in the first place and will repeat it for the day of Judgement.

Osisi, no suicide for me. I still have many many nights to enjoy in Owerri, and all the way to "Aba." There are Amakas, and Chidi and Chukwuma, etc, all my sons to come. Give me time, woman. Did you see how long I ask Allah to let me live? How will a person like that commit suicide? I wanna go out with your greatgreat grandchildren, walking me to Mosque, not because I cant do it myself, but because he loves this "old man" who doesnt wanna grow up.

Osisi, you are so funny. the devil in me? How is that possible? I say audubillahi minal sheitani rajiiim. Shaitan and me cant be in the same clique. Am with Allah and shaitan is enemy of Allah and open enemy to me. Shaitan is doomed.

what makes u think I was praying to allah?

huxley:
How then do you explain cases where muslims have reported having their prayers answered when they have prayed to their god.

When they have been ill, they have prayed to Allah for healing and he has responded positively

When they have been in other difficulties, Allah has proved to be responsive to them.

So Allah must also be the living god who answers their prayers.

have u ever heard of fallen angels from which lucifer (satan) is head? allah is symbolically satan personified and disguised.

Allah is a moon-god. an arabian idol easily linked to satan and disguised as an angel of light.
By the deeds and commandments of allah, we know he is not Jehovah GOD. . . . .but a satanic agent, just like satanists and atheists.

in hez dreamz

VeriLee:
Does God answer the prayers of non-Christians like muslims, hindus, mormons, etc.?

muslims dont worship God. . . . .or do they?

we all know that they worship an arabian idol called allah.