₦airaland Forum

Krayola2:
@ Noetic

I do not believe that my good/fate is dependent on an unseen order (God, Allah, whateva).

I do not adhere to a religion because my life does not involve any practices that are believed to affect or be related to an unseen order.

I'm not an atheist because I do not deny the possibility of a cause to the existence of the universe. If that is what U call "God", then I do not deny the possibility of such to exist.

Can u please make sense of the Genesis creation story in light of modern science.

If u deny evolution as a plausible explanation for human existence, a more plausible one than creationism as described in Genesis, why?

(I know it's off topic but I don't mind starting a new topic if u will answer those questions) If u have any questions about my beliefs that I stated above please feel free to ask.  

please open a new thread. . . . I will gladly oblige.

toneyb:
Will you stop talking about reason and logic, you have never made any reasonable or logical point or argument.

please shut up   and revisit ur last post.

The fact that you are here making a case for your god is enough evidence(logical, intellectual and scientific) that your god exist only in your deluded and confused imaginations. When last did jesus appear to you in your dreams and what did he tell you? .

is this ur answer?  

ibkaye:
Everyone would just die out, no sperm, no procreation, teehee.

thou art a naughty grl. . . thou loveth sperm too much.

bournvita

olabowale:
And at Noetic, I did not see a university started up by the people of the books, prior to the university of the people who followed the unlettered prophet!

Thats not the issue. Are u saying that islam has brought nothing GOOD to Nigeria?

olabowale:
@Noetic: From your website; this is what I got from the piece. I hope you can read.

[b]If the definition of a university is assumed to mean an institution of higher education and research which issues academic degrees at all levels (bachelor, master and doctorate) like in the modern sense of the word, then the medieval Madrasahs known as Jami'ah ("university" in Arabic) founded in the 9th century would be the first examples of such an institution.[3][4]


The University of Al Karaouine in Fez, Morocco is thus recognized by the Guinness Book of World Records as the oldest degree-granting university in the world with its founding in 859 by Fatima al-Fihri.[5] Also in the 9th century, Bimaristan medical schools were founded in the medieval Islamic world, where medical degrees and diplomas were issued to students of Islamic medicine who were qualified to be a practicing Doctor of Medicine.[4][6]


Al-Azhar University, founded in Cairo, Egypt in 975, was a Jami'ah university which offered a variety of post-graduate degrees (Ijazah),[4] and had individual faculties[7] for a theological seminary, Islamic law and jurisprudence, Arabic grammar, Islamic astronomy, early Islamic philosophy, and logic in Islamic philosophy.[4][/b]

but from the same website we saw preceding universities :
China

* Nanjing University (National Central University) was founded in 258 CE.

Korea

* Taehak was founded in 372. and Gukhak was established in 682

India

* Nalanda University an ancient university was established in the 5th century CE in Bihar, India.

Iran

* Academy of Gundishapur was an important medical centre of the 6th and 7th centuries CE.

Japan

* Ashikaga Gakko was founded in 9th century and restored in 1432.


ur islamic university is therefore not the first university on earth. but that aside. . .what good has islam brought to Nigeria?

know that I really loff u

she smokes on her profile. . . , nice and cool.

toneyb:
What promise did your god make to his "chosen men"? That he will give them the land that belongs to others? Why not make a land that is flowing with milk and honey and give to his "chosen men" if really he is an all powerful and all mighty god? so the only way your god can fulfill his "promise" is by telling his people to kill off others including women and children and sarifice them as burnt offering unto him eh? how is this god any different than the allah you so love to hate? By the way the same god told them to kill the children of their fellow jews if there parents were sinners, the same god advocated sexism and told them to mistreat their women. He also told them to kill each other so many times for one trivial reason or the other. Are all this part of his promise too? How is this god different from allah? remember that this same god says that he remains the same and never changes.

Light up boy, I can see that you are really tensed.   . This is pertinent because your ridiculous assertion that davidylan, osisi and oladegbu make "rational" and reasoned points is only a joke since they do not really agree with each other on their personal beliefs beyond the basic christian proclamation that jesus is the son of god who died on the cross and was raised on the 3rd day. Apart from that davidylan will keep on calling the preachers that osisi considers to be her god's chosen and anointed prophet thieves, frauds, and heretics. Go read up his thread about heretics and thieves that deceive people using the bible, amongst them are pastors who osis not only agrees with their teachings and position about jesus and the bible but holds them in very high esteem. You will say this has nothing to do with anything only because it exposes your flawed arguments that davidylan and osisi are on the same page. They agree only because they believe there is a god that exist but his exact nature and how he operates, they do not share the same beliefs.

whats the difference between making a reasonable, logical and seasoned point on one hand and reaching an agreement on the other hand?

If you look around what do you see? Do you see any god? that's enough evidence for me that your god only exists in your imaginations, the fact that you are here trying to defend or make a case for your god is enough evidence that your god only EXITS in your deluded and twisted imaginations, NO god will rely on a know nothing and highly irresponsible empty barrel like you to make a case for him. The fact that you are doing that on your god's behalf speaks volumes.

Thats a very tall claim, where is your evidence for this? where you there when your god was inspiring them to write down what they wrote?. A claim is nothing but a claim, a little evidence on your side will do. Your god inspired men to write scientific and historical inaccurate accounts? What about the catholic bishops that voted to put the bible together and chose what was the word of god and what was to be discarded, were they also inspired by your god? the scribes that made a lot of copyist errors that are now part of the bible were also inspired by your god?

How is the god of the OT better than allah?

Lighten up boy, I can see that you are very tensed, intelligence and you as a person have nothing in common. Stop talking about intelligence because you have NON of it at all.

1. where is the evidence that supports ur atheistic belief/disbelief?
2. where is the logical, intellectual or scientific evidence that backs ur claim?
3. whats ur alternative to creationism and other pronouncements of God?

when u have answers let me know 

Jarus:
I don't know.

I just lost my last inch of respect for u. u deleted my post on the haddith thread, but yet fail to delete shariaman's post.

very soon u will open ur mouth to say islam is a religion of peace and allah a god of justice.

dominique:
which part of the highlighted points is not true?

none of it is true.

are u talking to me?

olabowale:
Neotic, I will call you some day and hear you recite couples of Bile Chapters, "off-hand!" Oniro. Oje marina, fesegungo, koma sheje! lol. Dont get me started. You know nothing about nothing.

that would be a good idea

olabowale:
If there is a hypocrite on this NL, you will be the first, hands down! You never have came up with anything tangible, except; whats this, etc and have the gul (lol) to ask questions afterwards! You are so funny and full of yourself, all at the same time. You don't get it that I have stated that University education is from Islam and the west brought it to Nigeria. By orignality, as the originator of the idea which was implemented, it is Islam that brought it!

Omode nshe e. You should know the evil of Awolowo before you can dispute with me. Am an Ijebu man and if you are, except you are from Ikene, you have no right over the foolish Awolowo than me! But then the truth have to be told. Awolowo took credit for all that was good, without acknowledging where the idea came from!

You also qualify for the most ridiculous troll of allah.

The first university in the world was definitely not islamic nor in an islamic country. . .see here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University

so back to the original question. what good thing has islam brought to Nigeria?

uhmn. . . .if he were a chick. . then yup.

I hope I see the light soon

lofly and cool

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=297632.msg4218208#msg4218208 date=1248098651]Well it was a combination of factors but what tipped me over the edge was the hypocrisy of so called christians and the lies, contradictions and fallacies in the bible.
Mind you i was never taught evolution in high school it was completely obliterated from our curriculum due to the xtian nature of my school. So my belief was in no way effected by the evolution theory in-as-much as the bible kissers wanna believe that.[/quote]can u separate the hypocrisy and contradiction of false prophets from the "hypocrisy" and "contradictions" of the bible?

muhsin:
@Noetic,

You sure your post was withing the etiquettes of posting up here?

but sharia man posts was not deleted was it?

shariaman:
u narcotic or is it neotic slowpoke

everyone wants to get sexually involved with young girls and not old ones

a peodophile is not only to be sexually attracted to CHILDREN (ur definition being false)but it is also a mental disorder that is generally used to describe those accused or convicted of the sexual abuse of a minor, younger than the local age of consent.

the prophet (saw) was married to aisha, how can one be pedeophilic to your legally married wife.
secondly the prophet was married to other women some with children and some older than him, some widowed etc if he was sexually attracted to children like you potray it, all of his wifes would have been reported to be kids i bet u do not have the good heart of marrying someone older that you with kids like the prophet did. slowpoke.

thirdly the fact that you post in the segment where people are trying to remenisce the hadeeth of the prophet shows the level of your home training, mental stability and educational enlightment.


better return to your bible that preaches that the men of (ur)god
had sex with their daughters(we muslis reject this)
Genesis 19:30-36

Lot and His Daughters
Afterward Lot left Zoar because he was afraid of the people there, and he went to live in a cave in the mountains with his two daughters.


"One day the older daughter said to her sister, "There isn't a man anywhere in this entire area for us to marry. And our father will soon be too old to have children. Come, let’s get him drunk with wine, and then we will sleep with him. That way we will preserve our family line through our father." So that night they got him drunk, and the older daughter went in and slept with her father. He was unaware of her lying down or getting up again.
"The next morning the older daughter said to her younger sister, "I slept with our father last night. Let’s get him drunk with wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him. That way our family line will be preserved." So that night they got him drunk again, and the younger daughter went in and slept with him. As before, he was unaware of her lying down or getting up again. So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father." (Genesis 19:23-25, 30-36 , NLT)

I am sure u saw my responses to the rubbish above, before the trolls of allah deleted them. . . . keep enjoying ur madness.

Chrisbenogor:
Emmm ok I concede I am a prejudiced person when it comes to davidylan I cannot help it lol, my brother calm down there is this tension in your posts, when we started it was sweet and a joy to read do not turn it nasty na abeg

I am honestly as peaceful as I can state. Still enjoying the discussion. . . .helps reveal some things that are really obvious.

Lets make things clearer bro, on what basis do you judge the moral beliefs of the muslims?

I believe I stated 6 commandments of allah to his 21st century slaves that I find morally debauched. You can check back on my last 2 posts to u.

Oh about that ninth reason its the what have you got to loose by serving God, the whole win win thing, remember?

you havent told me what about it is really questionable? the part of my assertion u find incomprehensible?

toneyb:
Light up boy. I know you have to throw insults around since you have nothing sensible to say.

What is the promising nature of your god? telling the jews to stone to death their disobedient children? stoning to death people for picking stick on the sabbath? What about sexism advocated by your god in the bible? remember he told the ancient jews that  is wrong toeven look at menstruating women, because they are unclean. So are all these the promising nature of your god? Remember he says he is the same god for ever and he never changes.

God made promises to them. . . .He fulfilled His promises. . .the path to fulfilment evoked killings and other inactions. . . . but they ended up in the promised land, as originally promised. That to me shows a God who keeps His promises.

Davidylan is honest at least to say that his reason for believing in the christian hypothesis is only based on faith not on reason unlike you or oladebgu, by the way davidylan and oladebgu do not even believe in the same thing while olaadegbu believes that only those that believe in the literal translation of the genesis creation account are christians davidylan does not believe that the world is 6000 years old in fact he believes that there is a pre adamite world unlike oladebgu that considers that a heresy which leads to apostasy. Davidylan and osis do not also believe in the same thing if you look very well at their personal beliefs, osisi believes in prosperity gospel teaching and what not while davidylan considers that to be heresy and against the teachings of jesus. On his list of heretical pastors and false teachers are pastors that osisi reveres are has spoken highly of on nairaland. if not for atheist and moslems on nairaland, davidylan, osisi and oladegbu will be battling it out against each other here on NL.

Your slowpoke-like assertions never cease to amaze me. What has all these nonsense above got to do with the thread/topic?

What is this non sense word that you keep using? what inaction are you talking about? Do you have any contract with your god telling you that he inspired anybody to write anything in the bible? I don't need to rely on faith to know that your god exist only in your imagination because you have no written contract with him telling you that he exist all you have as your evidence are the words of ancient men that say that he once used to address them through public speeches men that can not even write a coherent tale about their god without so many contradictions and errors.

The last time I checked, u have repeated this fallacy over 30 times. . . .u are fast becoming a ridiculous bigot.
1. where is the evidence that supports ur atheistic belief/disbelief?
2. where is the logical evidence that backs ur claim?
3. whats ur alternative to creationism and other pronouncements of God?

The bible was written by inspired men of God. That u consider their testimony unacceptable does not discredit such testimony. It reveals the inconsistencies of ur postulations.

Did your god tell people to kill unbelievers in the OT? Did allah do the same in the koran? why is it right for your god to order the indiscriminate killings of unbelievers and wrong for allah to do so? did your god once support and advocate incest? why is it wrong for allah to advocate the same? did you god once encourage the jews to enslave or sell their children into slavery? why is it wrong for allah to advocate the same?

u keep ranting endlessly. what has this rubbish got to do with the topic?

I am not the only person that has said that you have never made any sense in any of your post. So far about 5 people have said it including christians on this thread.

I am not surprised. intelligence is fast becoming uncommon.

JIL:
They gave him third class at Covenant University. Being an atheist is the only way he feels he can pay them back.

where is tudor? is this true?

Jagoon:
@noetic
Go and look at the cretin in the mirror, you would get all your answers there.

ok. Now I get u

Jagoon:
Describing you as annoying is actually a monumental understatement. You are actually an irritating verminous cretin who should not be seen[thank God we haven't had the misfortune of meeting you in person] I suggest you do us all a favour and yourself inclusive by jumping off the London bridge two bags of cement tied around each of your cretinous legs by this way you would be contributin your own quota to making "the world a better place" like michael Jackson impored us all

whats the meaning of all of the above?
are u educated at all?

1. name one instance to corroborate ur assertions? is that too much of a hassle?

olabowale:
Let me repeat it; by percentage, almost all muslims, if they make salah must be able to recite 2 chapters of the Quran. One is Surah Fatihah, and the other could be any of the smaller ones. Do you have such an ability in knowledge for the purpose of worship in Christendom? Think about it.

how many of these muslims can think or reason in arabic? how many non-arabian muslims can have a thought in arabic?
That explains why people accept islam without understanding the ridiculous nature of requirements and promises of/from allah.

And Awolowo and his leutenants knew about this. For sure they did not get it from Christendom? Just like in Enland, not all English man is educated, and you even believe they invented education, it will not be a surprise to see muslim Nigerian not to be educated by your standard. Illiteracy, my friend do not mean when you cant write, read or speak English. It is the backward thoughts of people like you that will make it impossible for africans to conduct their education in their language. Chinese do.And so are many others, including Russia which is still giving USA a run for their money. So is France, Germany, etc. Their education is in theirown languages!

What has all of this Awolowo or no awo got to do with the benefits of islam? since islam came into nigeria, what benefits has it been of?
Apart from the killing, destruction and annihilation of defenceless people who refuse to worship allah.
Also apart from the shagging of 6 year olds. . .what has islam done for nigeria?

northern Nigeria is today a volatile place. . .thanks to the jihad commandment of allah and insidious nature of mohammed.

Now that this is established, do you have a chapter that you can recite off head, like the incantations of the Babalawos, in Christendom?

u never cease to amaze me. Like every other christian I can can recite several chapters of the bible off-hand. Any muslim can also recite the koran, so can any traditionalist recite incantations. . . .this CANNOT be referred to as education.

How about the "Lord's prayer", which started with "our father" instead of "Our Lord?" Finally, since you are wasting my time; O sharoo Monday. go on google and ask about oldest University on earth! You will never find it listed in Europe and definitely not newborn baby America! Pele.

whats the meaning of the above?
what good thing has islam brought to nigeria? this is the almost the 20th time u are being asked on this thread.

chimpanzee

dove

Jagoon:
Another confirmation that you are indeed not only very annoying idiot but a self deluded highly opinionated nicompoop who is full of shit. One would have expected if you had any grey matter between your ears to have taken a cue from being labelled an annoying slowpoke by fellow nairalanders to reflect on your self and how you express yourself on this forum but then again it takes a little bit of brain power[which you don't have] to do that. You are indeed a great embarrassment to christians on this forum and you are a perfect example of why christians are called hypocrites. Look through your posts would Jesus be proud of you as his supposed "follwer" with all the rubbish you spew on this forum.

why is it so difficult for ur retarded maladroit self to simply state an instance to corroborate ur insidious claims of "hypocrisy", "nincompoopishness" and "rubbish". oh I forget I am debating with an gaby who cannot disseminate anything from his brain.

what stops u from backing ur false assertions with instances where they truly happened. Another ridiculously ignorant maladroit.

what is going on BYL

Jagoon:
@noetic
You have just confirmed on this thread why some people voted you as one of the most annoying people on nairaland religious thread.

u keep missing the point. . . . .just like u the common mad man on the street of lagos also has an irrational opinion like the one above. . . .It is up to u to back up ur assertions with examples, meaningful analyses and instances, . . . that would at least distinguish u from the mad man on the street.

Chrisbenogor:
Haba brother noetic I no curse you na, take small pity on me na
Dude calm down lets reason things out there is no need for us to end this wonderful argument like this.

u changed the tone of the conversation to the normal atheist-xtian mantra on the forum. I am very calm, are u?

The point I asked you to tell me how you feel about muslims was because I wanted to test your objectivity and prejudice, which of course is the bone of contention in this issue.

How can u refer to my christian beliefs as prejudice on my part, when ur question about muslims clearly pictured me as a christian?
I think that u are being very dishonest with ur assertions.

I simply stated that on the basis of christianity it is not objective to say islam is wrong.

I believe I gave my reasons. all u had to do was to intelligently antagonise the reasons I gave, . . .and not the general mantra of the atheistic inconsistencies. You are yet to highlight how exactly my position on islam is not objective.

Thankfully your religion has moved on with the morality of man and thats fine, am I pissed off at the quaran, of course I am but I know its a lost hope for me to try and reason things out with Abuzola for instance, so take no hard feelings out of this bro, deep down I think you are a cool dude and this conversation would have been fun if we were talking.

All through my anti-islamic posts, my position and angst has always been about the moral values in islam. . . .nothing more.
Its none of my business if someone else sees islam as right. . . . All I have done is to ask questions about the moral acceptability of the islamic belief in contrast with mohammed and allah.

Oh by the way oladegbu is a young earth creationist and david is not, ola reads and interpretes what he sees as it is written, david takes twists and turns. I think I like ola better though lol he aint vindictive and sure as hell isn't acting as the chosen one.

and u dare accuse me of prejudice? . . . .what has young earth creationism got to do with my classification of olaadegbu and davidylan as christians who present superior arguments?

you expect me to see things from ur world view. . . . .even when they are clouded with prejudice. . , .

Finally can we discuss your 9th reason for being a christian, I mean pascal's wager, what can I say I love mathematics.
No matter what bro, we live and we learn.
Cheers.

what about my 9th reason?

olabowale:
What did Christianity ever brought mankind? Give me one project that was worth while to honor or in the name of Christianity. Not what the Christians did, but what anyone did to benefit or to credit christianity. Look we know Crusade was prodecuted by the Crusaders to benefit Christianity. We know that the Spanish Inquisition was done for the same reason. Many other thngs and specific eevents like that. The above are evil things. Now tell me any good in the same vein that we can without trying to comb through and arrive at a maybe answer, or we have to "interprete" as the usual methodology that you guys always go to "in context", one single good is what I want!

The question remains one good thing islam has done for nigeria or the world. "I dont know" or "none" is allowed.

Through Islam, because the Quran says Iqrah; to Muhammad (AS), it is proclaim/recite because he was to remain illiterate so that his genius in truth could be discussed, for ever. If he had been such a matriculated person, we will not be talking about it, now. I remember Davidylan had to resort to a gimmick whereby he spoke the truth that "Allah" had to be what God is in the Arabic Christian Bible, because, they just had to respond to the Quran! Yet that woman, $Osisi turned around that "Waraqah" already wrote the Bible in Arabic! Now which of the two of you is not able to tell the truth? I think it is that woman (in the tradition of Bill "sleek Willie" Clinton) is the one!

what has this got to do with the thread?

Now, to the rest of the Muslims, "Iqrah" means read/study/recite. This forces people to investigate and learn. So you see in Nigeria a village woman, say 80 years old muslim is able to at least read the Quran in Arabic, or recites few chapters from memory so that she can make her daily salah. But that is not the case with another woman of equal age, in the same village who is a non muslim. She knows nothing about nothing! Go to Igboland, or the the yorubaland to see what am talking about.

u mean the same way a traditionalist is able to recite incantations off-hand even at the age of 100.
please stop fooling urself. what good has islam brought to Nigeria?

I had pointed out that Awolowo must have copied his Universal Education Scheme for the Western Region from e Muslims, and surprisingly, it was Michael Adekunle Ajasin who came up with that idea, an Owo man, who saw how the muslims will study their Quran, as masses of people unlike the not studying Christians who depended on the Pastors and Clergies to tell them how it was possible for 3 to be 1, and how you should make human God, and how you should give your life away to a person who never asked you for it, or how Trinity became so important that it does not have to be written anywhere in the Bible.

I am disappointed at ur nefarious and penchant desire to constantly lie for allah and mohammed.
if Awo copied universal basic education from muslims. . . . .where was their own UBE? do u read the cramming of an alien text in an alien language as education? how many nigerian muslims can think in arabic?

Islamic societ designed the early University Institutions and Education Ideas. Two of those Universities are still in existence toay, in Morocco and Egypt! The way Lectures are conducted mimick Islamic way of impacting/studying the Quran, Ahadith, etc! The Tassles and the cap, the Gowns, all of them are modelled after Al Ahzah of Cairo. Researches into sciences and medicine, all of them the Muslims started it with their reading the challenge to do so in the pages of the Quran!

Now what has the Bible, indeed Christianity had brought to my 9ja and indeed the world, except Crusades, Inquisitions, Conquistadors, etc?

Guys, am waiting to read from you the about the wonderful Christinaity to the world! Even Judaism brought nothing!

So in other words islam brought nothing good to nigeria. . . right?
where are the evidences to support the morrocco and egypt claims?

Chrisbenogor:
Chei toneyb see as you take my shine! lol Nice one I could nto have said it better to noetic.

@noeticJust when I thought you were finally getting your act together you implode your arguments left right and center. I do not know where to start from as I can really see no sense of objectivity in what you wrote. Let me try and tape it together though. Your sense of a superior argument makes me laugh, even on the tenets of religion you make it difficult work to really make much sense, it would be a lot better to just stick to the whole faith thing, one of the reasons you are the second annoying is that you try to bring reason into religion and you really suck at it.

Another Ridiculously foolish rant. What EXACTLY are u getting at?

First of all you made the big mistake of lumping Olaadegbu and Davidylan in one category, they both believe in different things. Next you go on to state three things, Your argument here first of all assumes that allah is the true God, so if they had a relationship with him you would be fine, your arguments assumes that if the Muslims had their religion in a Christian way then you would have been fine with it, when in reality all you are doing is using Christianity as a basis to judge what islam is supposed to be, I wonder how you cannot see that you are prejudiced.Yes all you do is offer your personal opinion and understanding, do I smell prejudice again?

Why did I assume u had a brain to reason with?
This is the third time on this same thread I am telling u that u dont have to agree with my positions, as long as they on their rational and reflect my thoughts.

1. Davidylan and oladeegbu in my opinion are in the same category, you have stated no reason why they should not be.
2. You asked about my opinion on islam in the context of my christian beliefs. . . . .I just stated it and u dare bring objectivity and prejudice into this debate again. u now sound like a broken record. . .making senseless and endless repititions. Go and read what I wrote again.

go back to the definition of objectivity you provided look for the word personal in it.Now this has got to be the biggest BS I have heard on Nairaland this year, are these things not contained in your holy book? My advice is stick with david ( you are already joined at the hip to him anyway ) and say its faith not reason that makes you a christian then you would be on safe ground, until then I really don't think anyone would see you as a fair judge.
Cheers.

Whats all these rubbish about? now I know why u re called . . . .

I made specific refrence to the koran's teachings and refrence to its 21st century followers in contrast with the bible. . . . .and this is all u have to say. . .please try and get a brain. . . .when u do let me know.