₦airaland Forum

Why do I get the feeling this is another NL drama unfolding? The title that comes to mind is "Everyone has multiple IDS and I needs must have at least one more - Tudor"

^^ By all means, Sir, drop your Yahoo ID.

You are honorable and so I am honored.

Please note that NOT ONE of what you call anti-tithers base their arguments on aught else but scripture. Not one is in support because a "MOG" says so unlike majority of the other side. Note MOSTLY that their arguments are not against tithing/giving but the way the 10% is preached to seem as a "compulsory LAW" to be fulfilled in "church" rather than a means God designed for societal support for all the needy. Remember it is taught "today" that if you do not give it, you will not be blessed, may (will) not go to heaven and have given your all to satan. These are the problem, not tithes/giving!

I await your Yahoo "tag"

^^ E36991 believes OT tithing was a type pointing to what God expects us to do NOW; as it were - a starting point. That is reasonable.

Problem is that God wants us to give willingly and cheerfully as OUR heart determines. How does e36991 then relate this to the average guy who never comes to understand this but is "made" to believe through [1] trust in the preacher(s) [2] fear of not being in tandem with what the trusted preacher says [3] an ignorance of the scriptures helped mainly by these "trusted" preachers who insist you need a "special" anointing to understand plain language.

And what he is made to believe is [1] Tithes MUST BE PAID ACCORDING to how the preacher says [2] Tithes are neccessary OR you go to hell [3] Without tithes, you cannot prosper or have good health

@e36991:

How do you reconcile the way it is presented "IN TODAY'S REALITY" by your "own" informed knowledge that God wants us to give willingly. Does God require that the "tax collectors" lie and confuse us so God can get what He wants but which THEY spend?

Do you remember stories of when the white man came here and the missionary schools? Christianity was the "vehicle" on which education, better health and science rode? How expensive was that education or health or understanding? How do you compare that to the Costs of Covenant University where even Living Faiths pastor's cant afford to send their children who are chased out on fees default?

Your poetry is nice and I'm sure you play the guitar/piano well. How does your poetry etc help those who you YOURSELF say the schoolmaster gave us the understanding of who this "help" was meant for i.e the poor, widow and stranger AND workers (who were included because they had no other means)?

^^^ Truth is the Holy Spirit. The Apostles suffered. Both they and Christ Himself looked towards Heaven for their "reward". You on the other hand say Christ Himself knew naught when He said "for My sake, they shall persecute you". You insist on an earthly reward. 

Do you know what it means to persecute? Peter was crucified upside down, Stephen was stoned to death, Paul was beheaded. But you say - "you will OWN the world". Can the disciple be greater than the master?

Basically then, you believe the Lazarus "rich man" and heaven are synonymous. The Bible has already answered you

@Joagbaje:

Here again in support of man rather than God as usual, are you? Lets not make this an issue.

Please JUST type out what Matthew 23: 8 says (if you truly believe you are a Christian, nothing will scare/embarrass you and nothing will make you pretend you didn't see a contrary opinion. Christ never evaded issues or questions - if you do, you are following somethng else and not the Risen Christ). Thank you.

PS: Look at the post above by "akwaowoudo". Let us learn (from God not chris thoughts)

Werediran:

The ramblings of the mentally deranged are difficult to follow and so we all at NL find it tough to understand you ALWAYS. Ask 2+2 and the insane quotes the history of Attila the Hun (actually, I know you can't quote that cos you're not educated enough to know the name).

hygenic, neat crazy, cloth horse manhattanite "olo orun"! 

You are truly saying "iso kuso" above. [1] Thank Jesus you know the spelling of "hygenic" but sadly you don't know the meaning in your own life. [2] Truly you're crazy since you believe an old man laying with a six year old can be anything except deranged like you. [3] So you too are also a horse - 13 women every night too?  :ona wa O - by the time you die, you'll be ready for 72 only what you'll get is the flames arabia has prepared fou you and boasts about  [4]I know you are olo-orun. no need to repeat it. The smell can't get past your keyboard to affect me

Answer my question whether you agree she was 6 or 9 or 56 (age kuku meant nothing to the dude. Even life meant nothing. no babe around meant he stuck it inside a shakabula or a piece of wood with a hole. Vaseline or human blood would make it slippery enough) -

If a man sleeps with a 9 year old, is he right by any means?? 

I think the real problem here is that we are to love the neighbor "AS OURSELVES". How many truly love themselves then? And if you do not love yourself, obviously you have no capability to love your neighbor.

Until we deal with "love thyself", we cannot start to comprehend loving our neighbors

@MOG2009:

You misunderstand me. I DID NOT SAY HE IS A FREEMASON. I used it as an illustration because a few weeks ago, some people here argued he was a Mason because he made some signs. At that time, I defended him and said it was inconclusive.

This argument made me use that as an example that just as the evidence APPARENTLY suggested he was a Mason, so it is that those who stoned paul APPARENTLY thought he was dead. Was Paul dead? Is Chris a Mason? My answer is NO to both but I wanted Joagabje to understand the language construct.

PAUL was NOT dead. I do not believe Chris Oyakilome is a FreeMason.

I wonder how it'd feel like to argue for Mohammed's (SAW) virtues as a peaceful, holy man with a libido built on high moral standards. Tudor, are you up to this rather than your planned?

Good and Bad, Light and Darkness, Male and female, right and left - You get the point. Yet say ye - many states based on vast differences. Where do you find support for this in Nature since the above shows all can be divided into just two categories?

Why ought the Spiritual or you could call it the "afterlife" be different? Why not just Heaven and Hell or better still "Immortal Life" and "Final Death"

@Joagbaje:

This is simple - chris oyakilome is APPARENTLY a freemason because he made a few signs freemasons make

So answer this - Is He a freeMason?

Same thing with Paul was APPARENTLY dead because they thought he was dead.

Do you understand now?

Remember I defended him so watch your "I have beef" with oyaks nonsense

olo - orun :

Aisha was 6 years old when he married her and 9 when he lay with her whether you lie about it or not.

Ok O, if you say she was not, are you then admitting that if she was 9 when mahmoud slept with her, that he was an agbaya?

I know you were not the one who dreamed them up, brother. I was just putting forward the Biblical position that souls "can" die.

My problem with discussing the issue with you comes from your ridicule of my belief sstem and (admittedly) mine of yours. I would say Jesus remains the only one who ever was "perfect" to which you'd probably reply with "how can you trust a jewish carpenter based on what others told you". Sadly that would end any meaningful discourse.

So lets leave out the 1st question. To the second - I say yes, grace does the trick. But that grace again is based on Jesus. Your response to that is likely another problem. Purgatory comes from the Catholic Church and cannot be defended from the Bible. With the Bible, it is simple - grace or nothing.

Sorry DeepSight, but I cannot discuss re-incarnation or any issue related to it. I do not subscribe to it and neither does the Bible though a lot would try to force the concept into the Scripture.

Finally, I'm suprised you speak of infants AGAIN. Inesqor dealt with this in an earlier thread I know you saw in which he posited that there exist people who though not aware of the fact, do actually belong to the "Body of Christ". The concept of Love and the Biblical position on such things was explained then. Children would of neccessity be included amongst such.

I will try to find that thread and the specific posts that address your query

No offence meant, whiteroses, but which would you prefer - anointing from God or from Chris Oyaks? Also, do you believe Jesus was wrong when He said those who follow Hin must NOT be called teacher, master, Rabbi or father in any form and that we are equal?

Its in your head and its unhealthy putting a man where you should put God.

Blessings, Sister

Whats your source for all your assertions? The Bible? Definitely NOT! For even your last assertion that these seem reasonable considering the "immortality" of the soul is defeated when the Bible speaks of the "death" of souls.

These are man thought up ideas meant for the selfish purposes of the initiators.

@DeepSight:

I thought you were "infinity" bound! Thought the FX50 would be fitting

^ Dindinrin atole eleyin-rira:

So you know how to ask questions? Answer mine and I will give you a Biblical based answer to your question which is really very simple. Sad that you don't have enough brains to know you asked a very simple question.

So, where's my answer - IF (we kuku know the truth) Mahmoud slept with Aisha at 9, was he right or wrong?

@harakiri:

I actually had convinced myself you wanted answers rather than a showing of "I'm a dude and can insult anyone. Big ups to me, yeah!".

But after this time, you come up with "you want to see an angel", "proof that Jehovah is the real God via Him appearing to you etc" and the desire to see a real live "miracle". Look in the mirror, dude - you are the miracle here to demand God "appear" to you. To salve your bruised ego, perharps? To bow before you and hail the mighty "harakiri", defender of them that believe not? or to beg you to believe in Him (seeing as that will make Him truly God, abi?) and stop chasing His potential worshippers away, ehn? 

Enjoy your days, dude but one last word - Fear is measured usually by aggression. The more the aggression, the greater the fear. Its called a defence mechanism. Whist you wish its our fear of hell that makes us believe, your refusal to consider alternative thinking and the ferociousness of your attacks (God should show) show a much greater fear - that of requiring excuse to stay where you are no matter how inadequate. Your desire for and joy in support as expressed above tells the story of one seeking approval. As they say, it takes a man to cry in public.

I get your point. Only Viaro can clarify his position then.

[size=4pt]That maggot must be skulking around someplace praying Viaro is proud like him and argues counter. NL drama [/size]

@Tudor:

Gen 1:1  In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2  And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Above is what my Bible says.

In Gen 1:6, it says He separated the waters below from those above. What was happening in the period between the Spirit "moving" upon the face of the waters above and the separation? At least we know of ONE thing - He created Light. So tell me what else happened, Tudor and over what period of time? Note that light and darkness had not yet been separated so how do you quantify His "DAY" to be one light and one darkness combination? For you needs must quantif that day to be your own definition to be able to say the 6 days means six "man" days!

I know the John "one" but this Psalm 68:19 na wah

BTW, you forgot to mention "prophets offering", "birthday contribution", "reward seed" and a few more that flee my memory now

@Viaro

You'll notice I stopped responding to your posts after I got your point when you "came down hard". It was because I finally got your point and understood. However (and this is where the problem lies), please note Image123's multiple (and excited) posts following that exchange. He believed (and prior to that I used to too) that you were in support of "THEM" in the scam. That was/is the problem here!

Remember we almost all to the man stated we saw you as their prop. AND THEY were not saying what you are. For them, it is an obligation to obfuscate the issue, confuse people and compel them that tithes are compulsory. So whist I get you "NOW", they don't and remain convinced they have "Viaro" advancing the "tithes as compulsion" cause in their behalf.

On Zikky, actually I was referring to another thread (the Oyedepo thread by petres_007) where someone said charity makes you wealthy and he "snidely" remarked that he thought "tithes" had already accomplished that. My bad!

You need to stop playing ( ) till 3am! That could be unhealthy. Worse still would be falling (how do you explain that to a doctor) during "games". I mean its not like you're a gladiator in the arena, is it?

@Enigma:

We ARE saying the same thing with Viaro. The difference is he uses tithe interchangably - whist you say tithe and mean the scam, he says tithe and means a voluntary honorable gift of a tenth. Problem is the dolts who use his words as a prop.

Viaro:

I'm fine, chairman but expected a greater showing on the "chris says take it. do you believe it thread". That harakiri dude kept me away from all but 2 hours sleep since yesternight.

If you read Kunle's last post, Zikky's deliberately snide comments, Enigma's last post and what you just responded to from me, you'll realise we're all (you included) saying the same thing.

Nobody (including Kunle who we could call NLs' anti-tither in-chief) says giving a tithe of your income to church is wrong AS LONG AS it is with full knowledge of what you are doing i.e. it is informed AND voluntary. All everyone is saying is "THOSE" we are complaining about are those who turn it into a compulsory thing and preach it as a "requirement", not only for physical and financial well-being, but infact in many cases, go to the point of linking it to salvation.

Just read Enigma's post again. And remember what each has written in times past as to support for the work of God and ministry of those engaged in the work of the Gospel. And your correction above may be true of "some" that you know. Truth is that here, most all do not work like that. They tell you it MUST NOT go anyplace except to them.

Enigma:
These people are ready to use any, i.e. any at all Bible passage as support for their "prosperity" gospel.

See what they say of III John 2

See what the likes of Mike Murdock, Paula White, even Ashimolowo do to passages like Psalm 68:19 (i.e. meaning you should be giving $68.19 every month).

Never heard that one. How does one eisegise that?

interesting combo.

Error, Greed and Pride!

What more does a man need?

viaro:
That is where the problem is - and that is what should be dealt with. The attack on tithes is misguided, that is why no intelligent anti-tither has anything of substance to say when their arguments have been closely examined from Scripture.

This is also why no anti-tither has the nerve to accuse Paul of basing new covenant CHRISTIAN doctrine on the Levitical system. NONE of these anti-tithers has ever had the nerve to condemn Paul for the same things that we see preachers do today. To keep arguing legalistically on tithes and yet shy away from making the same legalism on Paul's new covenant doctrines for Christians is simply double standards and not befitting for intelligent Christians.

Where do you find Paul basing NT christian giving on the Levitical system that would make you expect we castigate him for it? No-one here has, to the best of my knowledge, castigated even our dart-board (chris oyaks) for preaching holiness etc. Its only on the subject of prosperity WITH the proviso THAT a tenth of your income MUST come to him that makes everyone bare fangs. And you agree with this so what brings a "nerve" to accuse Paul into the issue of tithes?  

BTW, I do agree with "tithes" if they come from an informed point of view and are voluntary rather than coerced either via ignorance or "legalism" WHICH is the meat of this matter i.e. what you call "use of the ministry as a super-highway for filthy lucre."

^^ My only query is - does he truly believe these things or is it the fear of losing his job/salary/whatever that makes him defend such horrendous ideas?

^^^ And if Cars are considered "cool" and I say my wife is "cool", does that mean my wife is a car?

You of all people understand what is at stake here and I offered you a source where ou could go to for more information if what I posted here was shallow for your understanding. Simple - God created heaven and earth. STOP cos that is one statement. His Spirit moved upon the face of the waters (which we later see created so where did the 1st come from) STOP as thats another statement. God created Light etc.

Tell me, Tudor, how long did the first statement take? How long did it take to create heaven and earth? And remember, days were not yet designed as morning and night as at the time heaven and earth were "created". That came LATER! Its in front of you.

I know dem no born you well to answer the question! Who wan die?

^^^ Matter CONCLUDED - He was NOT dead.

This is the type of deliberate mis-interpretation that CE has become famous for. How do you re-invent meanings with a steady eye? You guys are a wonderment (!?*)

Lord Viaro is here.

I can now relax and allow my "Oga" to bambozzle you all with miracles and understanding. Oya Tudor, ask your questions and watch out - Nuclearboy is relaxing - The Nuclear-BOMB has come

TUDOR is here! ! !

@Tudor:

At least I know you have the desire for truth - I didn't form the idea. Look up wikipedia! I no be 419 and am not saying my witness is in Kaduna. Look it up yourself and remember - we sef dey think.

Meanwhile, how runs?[size=4pt] sits back smiling and awaits tudor's characteristic belligerence which I don't mind. At least he wants truth and doesn't misintepret[/size]