₦airaland Forum

sarutobie:
But the same bible told us that heaven and earth shall pass away before even the smallest word from God is changed...do you know that Ananias and his wife were struck down because they lied with their own money before the congregation of believers? If they withheld the entire money nothing would have happened to them, but instead they chose to play a fast one on God...the Levites didn’t farm or trade so they were sustained through the tithing from the people...in 1st Corinthians 9:13, the same sustenance of the levites was also invoked for those who worked in the house of God, read it...that same law was invoked in 1st Timothy 5:18...again read it..

My dear one, you are quoting the scriptures out of context. Jesus said heaven and earth shall pass away but none of his prophecy concerning his second coming would go unfulfilled. Please read Matt 24.33-35, Mark 13.29-31. Luke 21.31-33. Tithing was a law and not a prophecy.
Ananias and Saphira llied about the amount realized from the proceeds of the sales of their land., that's not tithing. You seem to be mixing up tithing with giving here.
I agree with you on 1 Cor 9.13 and 1 Tim 5.18 that those who work by the altar lives by the altar, but that is still not tithing. They are not Levite's they are encouraged to do secular job if the ministry can't sustain them. Hear what Paul said to Ephesian pastors; in Acts 20.33-35 "I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel. Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me. I have showed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive." And in Acts18.3 we read that Paul had a secular job he was a tent maker. That makes the difference btw the Levite's and the pastors. Christian tithing is not scriptural, I hope that has answered your question?

sarutobie:
So i should take your word and that of freeze as established truths from 2 witnesses abi? Instead of what Christ himself said?? You try wella.

Let me just clear the air here, Jesus Christ said it because he was still living when the law of Moses was still in force. They were still observing the Sabbath and burnt sacrifices but when he died, the veil of the temple was torn from top to bottom, meaning that we have direct access to God and not through any priest. He fulfilled the law. You need to know the biblical concept of tithing, it was meant for the Levites, the direct biological descendants of Aaron.

Somebody pointed out an erroneous teaching backing every points with the scriptures, and they are all saying he is attacking pastors. And none of them have been able to come out boldly to defend their views with the scriptures. I wrote an article about this error 20 years ago.

Very funny!!!¡

The only way people defend tithing is by saying that it is a spiritual principle. Nothing to support it from the scriptures. They believe more on their pastor than what the Bible says. They have bibles but they won't read.

must you now announce it?

more than 80% of kwarans can't be muslims i wonder where they got the statistics from. The Ilorin pple think of Ilorin as a state what about people from Omu aran, Offa, Igosun, Bode sadu, Oro, Iloffa, osi ekiti? Nigera is a secular state so also is Kwara. copy that!

Characteristics of a typical NIGERIAN:

1. Talk ill of their country.
2. See nothing good about their country.
3. In their bedrooms they talk  and complain about how BAD their leaders are and do nothing about it.
4. Prefer any country else apart from your country
5. These bad leaders are their; parents, friends' parents, uncles, friends' uncles,neighbours, townsmen, kinsmen e.t.c

In their little offices see how they treat customers;
Bank workers- shout at customer and talk rudely to them, over their money.
Police- harass innocent, law abiding citizens on the streets.
Teacher- refusing to go to classes/lectures as at when due.
Shop Attendant-cares not whether he/she sells or not, since they are not owners.
Mechanics-removes a part from your car and collects money for buying another one, but still replaces the one he removes.
Carpenter/Tailor delay in delivery for reasons best known to them.
Just to mention a few,
N I G E R I A.

If he likes let him not come to Nigeria.
After all Jimmy carter was in Nigeria, Bill Clinton was in Nigeria. What was the outcome of their visits and how does that affect the life of the common man on the streets. Nigeria is corrupt so America is not . Somebody just got jailed for the biggest fraud of all time, I dont think he's a Nigerian.
Let's go and sit down and talk about constructive things.

It used to be NTV then later NTA!
The good old days,
Remember skippy the kangaroo, Love boat, Sha na nah and sooooul train?
Then the advert of , wise men bank with UBA and women too with UBA.
You watch those hings with the candy bar called "goody goody" you can suck it all day long!
Then NTA was more meaningful, entertaining and very educative but now? Trash!

@kunleosob

KunleOshob:
I suspect very strongly that he is either a tithe preaching pastor himself or he one way benefits from the filthy lucre named tithes. Most of his accomplice that used to debate this issue of tithes with me a year ago have now seen the light and are no longer in bondage, but image123 with all the overwhelming evidence against tithes is actually twisting scripture and sinfully adding to the bible to justify this evil. he most certainly must be a beneficiary of the filth.

My dear brother he that hath an ear, let him hear!
Do you know that some people are still waiting for the coming of the Messiah up till now?, when Jesus had already come and ascended! some people still believe that the earth is flat till today.(the flat earth association in America).
I wonder why those who tithe still borrow money from us non tithers anyway?

@image123

Image123:
I'm sure this is the Obatoro amplified version of the scriptures in english of course.
I don't know how some of you guys do not follow discussion,but just jump in and pick words.[/b]The purpose why we say that tithing is before the law is [b]not because everything before the law is right/wrong but because tithing is not under the law.Removing the law doesn't remove tithes because they were not born the same day.

Now we know who is not actually following discussion, and young man watch your choice of words. Nobody is jumping in and picking words check my earlier posts.

bloodred:
Hi all,
I have read thru d arguments both for & against tithing and it hurts that our christian faith or fate has to be debated. Its nobody's fault here though. Its not even the Pastors that propagate bad doctrine, its us. The Bible unlike the Quran was written in plain English with lots of translations and versions and then as a bonus, The Holy Spirit was also given to translate and interprete the scriptures to us individually. As if that was not enough, we were also forewarned that there will be false prophets and that each of us has to work out our salvation. On Our Own.

The issue of tithes is something i have been pondering on for a while now. I was happy to stumble upon this thread. The scriptures quoted here have clarified a lot of stuff for me. I remember once asking a Man Of God if I could give my tithe out to ppl in need and he said no. That i should bring it to Church then go back and parcel another gift for the poor. Now, I am some one who loves giving. i wish i could give more than I earn. It felt wrong for me. for a while i was doing that double giving until my Sister who by any standards is Born Again revealed truths to me. I am glad my eyes have been open and i can give freely.

The so-called tithers on this thread remind me of a catholic sister i had an argument with one day. She vehemently oposed everything i said but quoted no scripture to support her claims.

We know its ok to give. We know the bible commanded it. Its ok. But prove it. No, instead they are busy making foolish comments. Its obvious they are clearly brainwashed.

I am not saying you should/shouldnt pay tithes. I am only trying to say that what ever you decide to do, believe in it, check the scriptures, do not consult what ur pastor said or didnt say. Do the right thing. If you are truly born again, the Holy Spirit will convince you of your choice.

|Hope to see you all in Heaven.

hmm!

@image123

Image123:
@junijustin and co

see,you may continue to get it wrong if you don't pay attention.Look at what brought the passage that you discussed.Its a little different from your view
Act 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
Salvation is not about this almost inconsequential things.Circumcision is nothing.I could very well say tithe is no big deal.Jesus mentioned some weightier things in Matthew 23v23.We're not saying that tithing is a pre-requisite to being saved.Those Jews said circumcision was necessary for salvation.Its emboldened above.I'm not here to force anyone to pay tithes or any form of offering.Have not seen any tither on this thread forcing others to join him.Its not by force.Its only the anti tithers that have been so grieved and bent on stopping people from paying tithes.To me,tithing is a minority.I only try to 'shed more light' on questions regarding tithes from the Bible.I thank God that to some extent,its been irrefutable.Anti-tithers keep skipping to other lame excuses and picking my words.So please be reminded again,tithing is not saving you or anyone.I'm saved before I pay tithes,not after.And remember,tithing was before the law and therefore cannot be limited to the law.Please don't forget that again again again.

Hmm, that trash again! Tithing preceeded the law, I've also said that many things preceeded the law. Twelve also preceeded the law.
When Martin Luther started bringing out some truths from the bible, these truths were contrary to the doctrine of the church in his time, he was excommunicated. But today see what we have!

@image123

Image123:
@obatoro and co
The above trash logic has been over condoned.maybe that's why it keeps repeating itself.Abeg obatoro,no vex say na during your shift o.Mr please read for yourself,have you ever read that Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils,not a tenth of the king of sodom's property?It would help if you read the whole chapter i.e Genesis 14

Genesis 14:1 And it came to pass in the days of Amraphel king of Shinar, Arioch king of Ellasar, Chedorlaomer king of Elam, and Tidal king of nations;
Gen 14:2 That these made war with Bera king of Sodom, and with Birsha king of Gomorrah, Shinab king of Admah, and Shemeber king of Zeboiim, and the king of Bela, which is Zoar.
Gen 14:9 With Chedorlaomer the king of Elam, and with Tidal king of nations, and Amraphel king of Shinar, and Arioch king of Ellasar; four kings with five.

I believe its obvious from the chapter that the king of sodom and his friends were up against stronger kings.
Genesis 14:4 Twelve years they served Chedorlaomer, and in the thirteenth year they rebelled.

Genesis 14:14 And when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he armed his trained servants, born in his own house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued them unto Dan.
Gen 14:15 And he divided himself against them, he and his servants, by night, and smote them, and pursued them unto Hobah, which is on the left hand of Damascus.
Gen 14:16 And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people.
Abram went and defeated those opposition kings that toook Lot.He smote them.He took their spoils.That's what happens in any battle.It was of this spoils/income/proceeds that he paid tithes.He didn't take a tenth of sodom's stuff.
Gen 14:23 That I will not take from a thread even to to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that is thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich:


.Simply funny stuff.What is a vow?

My dear brother, you seems to be confused.
Jacob's vow was conditional, He said If God does this, then i will do this, And if God doesn't i will not,
Do you speak English please?

@Pastor AIO
[b]The only thing I want to add . . . I want to back up 4real where he says that the bible in it's entirety is not the word of God but it only contains the word of God. He made reference to St. Paul on marriage where I think you will find the most explicit case of man's own opinion. The chapter and verse he was referring to was 1Corinthians chapter 7.

Quote
Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me It is good for a man not to touch a woman

This is in direct contradiction to God's own command that we should go forth and procreate. And that He made us two, Man and Woman. In the 12th verse he goes on to state explicitly that what follows is not from God but his own opinion.
He even later contradicts his position on marriage in 1Timothy 4:3.
Quote

Forbidding to marry and commanding to abstain from meats which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth

Obviously what he is saying in corinthians is not a command not to marry but rather a personal advice from his own human perspective on the matter. This is in the bible, he states explicitly that it is not from God, therefore, the entire bible is not the word of God. [/b]

I 100% agree with you. Paul was only sharing his own opinion which is contra to God's ordained intention of multiplication.
Keep up the good work!

you wanna give tithe ? pay it! and you better keep your mouth shut about it cos it's not compulsory!
my Akon, sorry 50cents oh no 2cents!

@tobz

tobz:
i find this post very suprising and vry amusing. The bible says pay your tithe, bring ten percent of your earning to the altar of the lord and of course pastors use this to their advantage. alot of passages in the bible has been manipulated by different pastors to suit their purpose but this doesnt mean that we have to disobey wht the lord has written in his scriptures. The fact that we have corupt pastors doesnt mean that we have to stop going to church or worshipping God.Basically i believe that everyman shl do whteva is on his mind, but shld remember that everyone will answer to his maker one day, so if you feel that becos of some quack pastor, u cant pay your tithe, no wahala, but to me its no xcuse.

Where did the bile say that, and where is the altar?
You better take time to study your bible very well.

@4real

4real:
men i have read over and over again this topic and men it's great but this is my own way of  thinking about it most of you guys are wrong and most of you are right, you just really need to study to understand things and to be honest with you guys tithes is one of the most talked about stuff in the bible and if you don't study men you will screw up,
first i will like to start this way[b] the bible is not GOD'S word[/b] pls hold on and follow me am going somewhere the bible is not GOD's word but it contains GOD's word what am trying to say is that not everything in the bible is GOD'd word or opion paul had his own say and wat he believed should be right(not getting married) so also some other we really need to know which is which to understand some things in the bible
First not everything in the old testament is under the law Abraham was not born or alive during the time of the law he had long since died before the law came into effect but[b] Abraham tithed[/b] (Genesis 14:18) but also remember that it was also under the law too (numbers 18 21-30) and also Christ mentioned it in (Matthew 23:23-24) and not to forget God also mentioned it in (Malachi 3:10-12) so where do we go from here as we have tithes mentioned before the law during the law and after the law and we know Christ came not to destroy the law but to make bring it to life
you see In His relationship with Israel, God intended the tithe to be an avenue to blessing.  The religious manipulators of Jesus’ day turned the blessing into burden. which was what was done in the days of Jesus and it is still been done today Effective ministry requires money—money that comes from God’s people.  Believers need to give—both for their own sake and the sake of the Kingdom.  Since they need to give, the need to preach about giving is there .  When the pastors do, however, we must be careful not to turn blessing into burden.  they must refuse to preach “tithing as legalism.”  so then what do they preach it as Tithing as worship as practiced by Father Abraham cause that was the first to be recorded in the bible it's a way of saying we acknowledge that God is both our superior (the Sovereign Lord) and the source of all blessing. "worship tithing"does more than acknowledge God.  It expresses our personal allegiance to Him.  We see this in Genesis 28:10-22.  Here, God reveals himself to Jacob in a dream.  In response, the patriarch vows, “the Lord shall be my God…and of all that you give me I will give a full tenth to you.”   For Jacob, the “tithe as worship” became a natural expression of his decision to follow the God of His Fathers.

So the bible is not God's word it only contained God's word? Funny!
Abraham died before the law and he gave tithe. Have you not read that he gave a tithe of the spoil after the slaughter of the kings , and he did not carry the remaining for himself?!
Please read for yourself.
Gen 14:20-24

20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all .

21 And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself.

22 And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth,

23 That I will not take from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that is thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich:

24 Save only that which the young men have eaten, and the portion of the men which went with me, Aner, Eshcol, and Mamre; let them take their portion.
KJV

So it was not the tithe of his possession or income.
And it was not documented that he was practising it.

Gen 28:20-22

20 And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on,

21 So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God:

22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.
KJV

Jacob's payment of tithe was a vow (conditional and a personal decision , not compulsion). And it was never mentioned that he gave tithe again. Even when he got some sheep from Laban he didn't give any as tithe.

Indeed tithe was mentioned before, during and after the law. Tithe is one tenth just the way dozen is twelve. dozen is mention also before, during and after the law. The twelve sons of Jacob, before the law. The twelve tribes of Israel during the law, and the twelve disciples after the law.

So if tithe is worship and songs of adoration is also worship, then i choose songs!

Ttalk,you don't need to bother yourself on this matter, from what i'm reading, some people can never change no matter what you say or do. Whatever they hear or know first is what they hold on to whether right or wrong. Lord have mercy! But my question is ,why are these people not still observing the sabbath? why are they not offering burnt offerings?

dipotepede:
Money is a very funny thing and God understood how this may bring confusion so he warned man not to worship Money.

I have written some articles on tithing that may benefit you;

1. Tithe or Tight: http://www.dipotepede.com/2008/03/27/tithe-or-tight/

2. Windows of Heaven: http://www.dipotepede.com/2009/02/24/windows-of-heaven/

I hope this help,

No it didn't.

From what i have read so far, i see that many of us have to go back to the study of our bibles like the Berean christians. For the fact that most preachers are advocating paying of tithe doesn't make tithe paying a law for the new testament Christians. It is clearly stated in the bible where tithes are to be taken to _ Jerusalem and mind you it was never money! it is increase of fruit of the land and cattle. Read Deauteronomy, very carefully

Ex 14:11-12
11 Then they said to Moses, "Because there were no graves in Egypt, have you taken us away to die in the wilderness? Why have you so dealt with us, to bring us up out of Egypt? 12 Is this not the word that we told you in Egypt, saying, 'Let us alone that we may serve the Egyptians'? For it would have been better for us to serve the Egyptians than that we should die in the wilderness." NKJV

Nothing significant has ever been accomplished without criticism.

Expecting the world to treat you fairly cause you're a good person is

a little like expecting a bull not to attack you cause you are a vegetarian.

When you allow people's words to stop you, they will!

Y'all have a great day.

One should be able to draw a fine line between secularism and profanity when it comes to music!

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Lord Jesus i thank you for your love and your kindness towards me ,my family and my friends.
Thank you for the privillege to post.
Lord you began the beginning, you live outside time,
You were, you are and you will continue to be.

theopops:
Actually, Obatoro, there is contumelies in the Webster's Dictionary. And it means:
1. insulting display of contempt in words or actions; contemptuous or humiliating treatment
2. a humiliating insult.

Thanks very much! later got it in Oxford.

Pastor AIO:
Na wa o! You've got to be the first person in absolute ages that is challenging the limits of my vocabulary.

This is what i got from my search:contumelies was not found in the English Dictionary
Microsoft® Encarta® 2008. © 1993-2007 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Gamine:
About the Communion, yesterday we were told that the communion

is a fuel that will move you forward and catapult you to the next level

if this is not a false doctrine, i don't know what is.

It is Well, may the Lord keep giving us insight as we study His Word, Amen

Communion is supposed to be identification with Christ and nothing more!

KunleOshob:
My position is that if any pastor wants to preach about tithes he should tell his flock the truth about what the bible says about (i.e that it is food meant to be eaten in God's presence e.t.c) the pastor should also not forget to tell them about Heb 7: 18 which describes it as a weak and useless law.

Amen!

[quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=272.msg2885787#msg2885787 date=1222985521]@sarmy,

Tithing should really not be based on what people have turned it into. We all have our persuasions here and there about this subject; but at the end of the day, we know that tithing did not originate with the Law, nor does the Law abrogate what it did not originate. The beautiful thing about any type of giving in the NT is that no one is forced to give anything. As the heart is willing, so we can find grace to do so.[/quote]God bless you my brother!