₦airaland Forum

NRI PRIEST: Isuama was brought to ruins by your Aro ppl

Lol . It's not our fault that some people were unable to comprehend Isuama due partly to the presence of Arochukwu. Isuama was just trying to blend dialects from every corner of Igboland and Arochukwu just happened to be in the extreme east.

Anyway... I found a few interesting (at least I think they are) documents. The first one is of Chinua Achebe's lecture in Owerri (1999) in which he denounced Standard Igbo. He wrote it in his own native Idenmilli dialect (NRI I know you will have no problem deciphering it) .

The second is the same exact document, however in Standard Igbo. Maybe they will help.

http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00fwp/igbo/achebe/index.html

And yeah, if anyone knows how to speak Isuama please give us some examples.

Just curious, but does anyone here know Isuama Igbo?

It's been over two years...lol. I don't suppose any responses now will be useful?

afam4eva: Southern Igbos don't alternate oo. They speak their dialect with pride. An Ngwa or Owerri person doesn't care that you're not from his place, he'll speak his dialect to you. The only people that alternate are usually Enugu and Ebonyi peeps.

I've noticed that most Imolites continue to speak with their 'sh' instead of 's' even when they try to speak Central Igbo. However, I've yet to personally meet anyone from Owerri so I guess I can't argue with what you said.

Most of the Ngwa people that I've met initially spoke Central Igbo to me, but maybe this phenomenon only happens in the diaspora. As for myself, I am a bit guilty of this also. I don't normally speak Central Igbo so I have a habit of speaking Arochukwu to people before I realize that they find it diffuclt to understand me.

Central Igbo is closest to the dialects of the people in Southern Anambra and northern Imo.

I also think that most people can understand northern Igbo dialects more than the southern/western/eastern ones. They say that northern Igbo is closest to the original root of the Igbo language.

I think that's the reason why northern Igbo speakers have a tendency to speak their own dialects to others whereas a southern Igbo speaker would have to alternate his/her dialect when conversing with others.

Ileke-IdI:
^^^ practice what you preach.

How is it an insult to call her mom an outcast when Onlytruth indirectly posted it. Why not delete his post?

I just checked the entire thread and didn't see anything of that sort. I think we should head back to the topic now. If you have any further complaints, you can always go here: https://www.nairaland.com/231979/complaints-notice-thread-serious

ezotik: lol, yes i know. low-self esteem that is rampant in the east. mind you, i did not mention any tribe.

Cool story bro.

ezotik: lol, odumchi why did u hide my post?

I think you know, lol.


Anyway... @ Everyone

this is the last time I'm asking everyone to cool down. All I'm asking is that you guys say whatever you have to say without verbally abusing each other. I hope that's not too hard.

ChinenyeN: Are you trying to liken Nri/Umunri communities to southern communities?

No. I'm only saying that unlike many other northern groups, they are comprised of several autonomous communities that share the same identity. Although it's possible to assert the existence of an 'Nriland', the circumstances behind it and those behind the lands of southern groups like the Ngwa and Ikwere differ.

ifyalways: I'm quite confused now. I have to go through the thread again.

Odumchi, enu onicha is the collective name for all the villages in onichaland (?)

Oooh, I understand what you mean now. I see that I also misunderstood what you said.

Odenigbo Aroli: Enu Onicha is simply the residential areas of the indigineous Onicha ppl; Most of Onicha metropolis were unused and farm lands some of which were farmed on by the Obosi,Nkpor,Ogidi and Onucha ppl. We the Nris had the concept of "Ana" which is more ancient than this current "land" idea,which was introduced by the whites. We say Ana Umuoji,Ana Obosi,Onicha and more...

The Nri and the Umunri are one of the few upper Igbo groups that are comprised of multiple communities. I thank you again for your clarification on Ọnicha.

Odenigbo Aroli: Odum nwanne,i nweghi nsogbu ma oli; "Odenjinji" means "sound of greatness" ma obu "uda ebube" in Igbo. Arondizuogu ppl use the word too. "Aroli" is one of the most ancient site in Umuoji,Idenmili where I came from and our progenitor Oji Okodu resided in that house when he lived,hence its called " Iba Aroli" or "Obi Aroli" which means the "heads quarter" where chiefs are received. The name "Aroli" according to my father is one his titled names and ppl greeted him with it,hence his place of residence was known as Iba Aroli. "Agboro" simply means lineage, descendants or bloodline.
Odum,aman na ighotara etu mu si kowaa ya?

I hope you guys forgive me for writing in english. It would have been hard for Odum to understand me.

Nwanna, I meela nnukwu. Otu a i si kpara m ihe nile dicha nma. M ghotachara ihe nile ikwuru. Ihe a egosila m na I bu ezigbo nwa afo ala Idenmili maara nto ala (history) ndi ya.

Jisie ike.

This is just a general warning to everyone:

...cool down with the verbal abuse.


Since, I'm here I might as well contribute to the topic. I personally know two examples of inter-ethnic marriages. The first was between a former neighbor/family friend of mine and a Yoruba guy from the West. The woman and her husband currently live in Lagos and have two male children who are both fluent in Yoruba and Igbo. In addition to this, the woman and her children visit home as often as possible.

The second example happened at Igbo mass rather humourously. Mass was over, and as the priest came to read aloud the announcements, a woman, who wanted to introduce her new husband to the congregation, stepped up to the pulpit with the guy. The priest, thinking he was an Igbo man, said, "Kee ka I mere" (how are you doing) and the guy stood there awkwardly wondering what the hell was going on . His wife finally whispered the meaning into his ear and he responded with an embarrassed "Beeni" (fine) lol.

Anyway, the point of this is that I've seen examples of Yoruba man married to Igbo women, but I've not personally seen any examples of the opposite. I personally think that Yoruba men marry Igbo women more than the opposite, but I can be wrong. This is definately no issue to pop a blood vessel over.

Enjoy the thread!

NRI PRIEST: Nwadi ana ji isi wee mu Onicha Ado,ekele mu na ebunye gi bu nke juputara ukpa! Ify,ife mberede ugbo elu nkea jidere umunne anyi wee gbuo gbaram anya nmiri. Na aka ozo,echerem na oga abu ihe di mma ma unu bu umu nwanyi Igbo mepee elili umu ada Igbo ga eji na ekwukorita ihe gbasara umuada umu Igbo...Tulee ihe m kwuru ma gwaghachikwa m ihe I chere maka ya. Kedu ebe Odunnu gara? Odika owuona oso ka J5..lol

Oke nmuo, Keekwa nu?

Onwere ihe m choro ijuta gi: kedu ihe "Odenjinji", "Aroli", na "Agboro" putara? Imeela na nke iru.

@Achi4u

Nwanna, kee ka i mere?
Mu na ndi ozo nocha ebe a ahula na I bu ezigbo nwa afo Igbo na acho odinanma obodo ya. Anyi huru na i choro isi otu obula I nwere ike isi eyere Ndi Igbo aka, ya di anyi nma na anya. Achoro mu iju gi oburu I choro iso na otu ndi na eyere Eze aka ka o luo olu ya. Olu anyi a abughi ihe obere yana anyi na etinyekwa oge na ime ya. Oburu I choro iyere anyi aka otu obula I nwere ike isi, mee tu ka mu mara.

Imeela nu.

Abagworo: I think their should be a thread on Igbo folktales or "Ifo".
Ifo shapii! Woah! Ifo shapii! Woah!

Owere otu mgbe and the response is Otu mgbe eruo!.

Make it.

Abagworo: @bolded. You just stressed the point I was trying to make . "Cross River Igbo" is a recent coinage while Isuama is older than the word Igbo. The use of the phrase "Isuama-Igbo" is like "Ngwa-Igbo" or "Aro-Igbo". The Isuama always knew themselves as Isu until very recent past. Who are the "Ọlu"? Our history has been highly distorted and younger generations know little of these.

Oh ok, now I see what you mean. The Ọlu (aka Orlu) are a people in northern Imo state who dwell in a few autonomous communities including Orlu and Amaigbo.

Abagworo: The question should be why nowadays people who are Isu are no longer aware. An example is chino11 who is an Isu from Uga in Anambra State condemning Isu from Imo and I told him that he is the same tribe as those people more than Awka and Onitsha but he seemed not to know. I've met some people from Afam in Rivers who are unaware that they are same as Azumini in Abia. I mean people of less than 16years old. Their parents know but for unknown reasons did not pass it down to their kids.

I perfectly understand what you mean. I think the Isuama presence was felt mainly through the Isuama version of Igbo which was basically the Igbo spoken in southern Anambra and northern Imo. With the adoption of a new version of centralized Igbo came the decline of Isu awareness.

Anyway... @Everyone,

I'd like to thank you all very much for your worthwhile contributions. If anyone would like to say more, please feel free to.

mbatuku2: I meant an expanding factor. Like in the case of Ngwa people, from their original ancestral settlement in Aba, they started expanding to other places to reduce the competition caused by overpopulation.

Oh ok. I see what you mean now.

Abagworo: Ify didn't get your thread. Onitsha is a cluster of people and not adequate to be addressed as land unless you include say Idemilis, Ogbaru, Nnewi and co. Nnewi in itself could be addressed as Nnewiland since all the 4 towns that make up Nnewi accept being one but not to be compared with Ngwa that has 7 local Governments and dozens of towns. Ezaa is another Igbo group of note. Ika if considered Igbo could be addressed as Ikaland too.


But all these are as a result of recent ethnic rearrangements. In actuality, the biggest Igbo subgroup is the "Isu" whose land is known as "Isuama" or "Isoma" and spans through the most densely populated part of Imo and Anambra. The truth is that today many people are no longer aware of Isuamaland.

Oh ok.

Like you said regarding the Isuama, most people don't identify themselves as Isuama (that is if they ever did). Nowadays, the term 'Isuama Igbo' is just as relevant as the term 'Cross-River Igbo'; it represents only a collection of different groups in a particular geographical location.

In my opinion, the only group in Isuama that can be classified as a 'land' would be the Ọlu.

Abagworo: I didn't hear it from anyone, I experienced it. When I was a kid there's something called "Ifo" which my Grandparents used to tell their kids in evening gatherings. They are folktales but sometimes tell history of events that happened in the distant past. They told stories of how a village sacked their King and decided that everyone should have a stake in governance as a result of high handedness of the King and his family. Stories of banishments and a whole lot. They told stories of people they called "nde gboo" which literally translates to ancient people. There are a lot of stories and my Grandparents are still alive to tell them till this day.

You are lucky to have been opportuned to hear such old wisdom-filled fables from your grandparents. I highly suggest implore you to write down these stories and even post them (if you have the time) here on Nairaland so that you will not forget and so we too can enjoy them.

Andre Uweh: @ODUMCHI, red hat is a red hat in any format and in Igbo tradition is meant for titled men. However, people now and days wear red hats as fashion just as people wear the military comourflage as fashion.

Oh ok. Thanks.

afam4eva: Igbo movies started it all in the early 90s until 99% of the producers of Igbo movies switched over to the English movie industry.

There are still many Igbo films out there, although not as many as before. You can watch new Igbo films (including Nkwocha) for free at www.iroktv.net

ifyalways: There is actually Onicha-land though its not as popular as Ngwaland.Its known in the town as "enu Onicha" and thats where u get the indigenous villages et all.

I think dede Andrews reply captures it perfectly.

Really? I didn't know.

Is the "enu Ọnicha" a group of autonomous communities/villages that all identify as Ọnicha or is it a cluster of villages around/within Ọnicha city?

ChinenyeN: In my own opinion, it could be a combination of different factors. The first most obvious factor is simply difference in land area. Unlike southern communities, northern communities do not seem to cut across large expanses of land, as you rightly noted. Simply put, northern communities either could not, or chose not to settle vast expanses of land, and rather maintained tight, nucleated settlements. Southern communities, on the other hand, who's traditions emphasize uninhabited areas, had the freedom to settle large expanses of land. This answers the question of why the upper half of Igboland is generally concentrated while the lower is more spread out.

The next factor is the difference in societal structures. Northern communities practiced a rather stratified and titled social system, in contrast to southern communities, which traditionally maintained a thoroughly egalitarian system. This stratified social structure in particular, coupled with northern communities' characteristically compact, large village-group type structure, could have likely facilitated the development of city-states in the northern part of Igbo area, unlike in the southern part, where no such stratification traditionally exists.

The societal difference between northern and southern communities is then further contrasted by another factor; southern communities' development of extensive cultural, historical, and ancestral self-awareness. Basically, southern communities developed several townships (its own version of northern communities' city-states), which self-identified with each other, ethnically. This ethnic self-awareness ("clan consciousness", as some Igbo would like to put it), is probably the most defining factor for why it is possible to add the suffix "land" when speaking about southern communities' locations. The fact that this self-awareness also cuts across large expanses of land helps to further validate and facilitate this particular concept of land.

If you ask me, that's how I understand it. The development of the characteristically nothern city-states and the characteristically southern lands was brought on by different factors.

Communities in Northern region
- Small settlement area
- Dense settlement pattern; single, compact large village-group type structure
- Social stratification and title society

Communities in Southern region
- Large settlement area
- Spread out settlement pattern; multiple townships
- Ethnic self-awareness

It seems like you've hit the nail. I noticed that your own opinion built on Abagworo's and the both of you identified land area as a major factor. I apprecoate this in depth analysis.

mbatuku2: Having huge populations could be a factor.

I also think that having a monarchy in place also tend to concentrate a people.

I agree; the existence of a monarchies is an important factor in the concentration of people.

When you said that population could be a factor, did you mean a concentrating factor or an expanding factor?

Abagworo: The Igbos further South had more lands to live than the ones up North, hence the differences in settlement.

You might be right. But then again, the Southern Igbo had not only to worry about each other but also the Ibibio, the Ijo, and other Niger-Deltan groups.

Andre Uweh: Perhaps, commerce and urbanisation changed the status of Onicha. Onicha could have been like any of the villages in Ngwa upon arrival in their present location. They could have been like Eziama, Abayi,Nsulu, Ntigha etc.

Who knows? Maybe they once formed a series of communities. I also noticed that part of Western Igboland is characterized by 'lands' instead of many city-state-subgroups; the Ukwuani and Ika both have 'lands' of their own.

While the ones in this photo are reserved for titled men and traditional rulers.

https://www.africansinamericanewswatch.com/a/i/nphotos/na0131a.jpg

Andre Uweh: @Nri Priest, there is nothing here to debate. You and I agree on the same principle. Red hats for titled men. Jisie Ike Nnukwu nmanwu.

Not to derail this wonderful thread, but I think there's a distinction between the types of hats (although I may be wrong).

The one worn by the man in the extreme right is the type which I think is for general use (meaning it's worn by politicians, elders, and etc.). My grandfather owned this type of hat although he never took a title.

[img]http://2.bp..com/_KtgRCLnSYMk/TPSuBDXT-fI/AAAAAAAABQ8/wl6OIWfporc/s1600/Nze%2BSunny%2BOgbu%252C%2BBrigadier%2Bgeneral%2BSani%2B%2526%2BObi%2BOkpaloka.JPG[/img]

Abagworo: Anyone who observes Igbo folklore well will know there were three phases of Igbo evolution. The 1st one is the "gboo" age. Then was regarded as ancient time when people were hunting and gathering. Then the Alaeze time when they had kings. Many folk tales tell of kings and princes and even till this day the Ibuzor people in Delta State tell the story of their ancestor being a Prince from Isu which is not Nri, Onitsha or Aro clan. The last phase was the democratic era which coincided with European contact, slave trade, rise of the Edo and insecurity.

Where did you hear this? I am genuinely interested in this because I've never heard it before. Please elaborate for us if possible.

Abi the guy no go school? Abeg, make him no disturb us wey dey prepare for exams.

jason123: [b]Mod Odumchi, [/b]why is my comment hidden?!

It's hidden because it was a retributory comment to an earlier post which is also hidden.

FACE: Umunne na umunna, ekele diri unu nile. O na amasi m na onye obula no ebe-a na agba mbo i-de Igbo. O bu kwa eziokwu na anyi kwesiri i-gba mbo n-akuziri umu anyi asusu anyi, maka na nwanne di na mba.

Gbasara i-de na Igbo izugbe; o ga ekwe nghota karia ma o-buru na anyi na ede ihe dika e si a supee (spell) ya na Igbo izugbe, karia i-de ya ka osi a-da na nti anyi. O buru na anyi dee ya otu-a, o ga ekwe nghota karia, ma obuladi (regardless) ma i ji olu ndi unu dee ya. Atumatu (example): anhu = ahu, hwe = ihe etc. O buru na anyi jisie ike dee ihe ndi obere-a ofuma, mgbe o gbadoro anyi, mee ka anyi dee ya ka osi ada anyi na nti (olu anyi), onye na-agu ya, ga-agu ya serere wererem (smoothly).

Ihe ozo di mkpa, bu rikom na kpom (punctuations). Rikom na kpom na-eme ka mmadu mara mgbe o kwesiri izu ike.O buru na i-dere gawa n'ihu ma i-tinyeghi rikom na kpom, o ga e-siri ndi ozo ike i-guta.

Ihe ozo anyi kwesiri i-ma bu na a, e, i,!, o , o(with dot) na aru oru onochiri mkpo aha (pronoun), mbu-uzo (prepositions)na enyemaka ngwa( helping verb).

O buru na i dee onochiri mkpo aha na mbu-uzo dika ha bu okwu nke onwe ha (separate from the verb or conjunction), o ga ekwe nghota karia. I nwere ike i-deko enyemaka ngwa onu ma o buru na i nwere okara elu na okara ala (accents) na computa gi; ma o-bu were okara etiti (hyphen -) jikoo ha onu.

Onye nwekwara ntuzi aka(corrections) na ihe ndi-a, tuzikwaraa anyi aka n'ihi na otu onye anaghi a-bu ama-ama amachaghi amacha.

Face,
Imeela nnukwu o. Ihe a I dere ebe a eyerela mu aka.

@Ohanaeze
Unu na eweli iwe. Agughi m otu esi ede Igbo na ulo akwukwo. Ọ bu ihe mere m ji na ede Igbo otu o si na ada m na nti. Ka anyi gbawa mbo yere onwe anyi aka maka odighi nfe. Unu emeela.

Andre Uweh: Prior to the coming of the Europeans, there were no Igbo towns or cities except Onitsha. The whole of Igbo clans lived in same kindred-clan settings. Some of the places that has become towns and cities rose as a result of administrative headquarters-Owerri, railway terminus-Umuahia, Aba, Port Harcour; mineral production-Enugu etc.
Cancel this examples, Igboland have the same settlement patterns and Igbo people still lay more emphasis on their clans and kindreds more than the towns.
I do not really believe that northern half of Igboland is more urbanised than others if not for the coming of the whiteman.

I understand that the Europeans were responsible for the mass emergence of cities in Igboland, but what I mean is why do the groups in the upper half generally reside in single communities made of clusters of villages while those in the lower half reside in 'lands' made of clusters of communities rather than single communities.

For example, the Ọnicha people only indigenously inhabit the city-state of Onitsha and the concept of 'Ọnichaland' is non-existent. However, the Ngwa people are found in several city-states and village-states.

Not to worry, all of these ethnicities will be included in next year's census.

For some time now, I've wondered about the reasons behind the settlement patterns of the Igbo peoples. I took interest in this topic when I noticed that most of the upper and central half of Igboland was dotted with groups that lived in independent cities/large villages while the lower half was characterized with groups that expanded beyond the conventional city-state and inhabited 'lands' of their own.

For example, the Ọnicha people are based in the bustling city of Onitsha, whereas the Ngwa people are spread across a large area of land dotted with medium-sized cities and large villages. The Ọka people, in the Igbo heartland, are all based in the city of Awka while the Ikwere people (in the southernmost fringes of Igboland) are spread (again like the Ngwa) over a large area of land dotted by mid-sized cities and large villages.

With groups like the Ikwere, Ngwa, Etche, and Ọlu (to some extent), it is possible to add the suffix 'land' when speaking about their actual location but it's not so for groups like the Ọnicha, the Ọka, the Nkanu, or the Ọhafia who are all 'city-state clans'. The only real exception that I've noticed (so far) are the Aro who occupy varioius city-states but yet have no real concept of 'Aroland' since they aren't concentrated in one area.

My question is why is this so? Why is the upper half of Igboland generally urban and concentrated while the lower is more spread out?