₦airaland Forum

Olu317:
Are you educated at all? If you feel bittered about research,then it is your problem. After all, it is inconsequential at all to me. You send message like a frustrated being. Any way, feel free to quote me because my information is a thorn in your flesh. You kept mentioning ‘youth' as if I am your contemporary? Anyway, I'll keep mute on some things.


Enjoy your purchased Ignorance.

Actually im the thorn in your flesh.. You feel so miserable being an African that being reminded of it and called out for your bullshit torments you

Research.. You carry out research . And yet you are unable to prove a single one of your claims
When asked you say you will keep mute
GO get a university degree and /or get a job

Rossikki:
You are so ignorant. The first 'semitic' people were BLACK. Get that into your thick skull.

you would need to provide evidence of this. Surely you don't expect me to just take your word for it..

Do you think God created white, black, and yellow people separately, or if you believe in evolution, do you think the races evolved separately?

×we are talking about Babylonians here not pre-human hominids

This is an irrelevant argument you are trying to bring up here

First we were talking about Ifá and old Testament the. You switch to Semitic people being black.. Which has nothing to do with the ifá and old Testament argument

Let's stay one point at a time

What the hell is wrong with you? Stop being a slave to mainstream western indoctrination. Blacks at a point were the ONLY race on earth. The other races are merely variations of the original black race. So the first Hamites and Semites were BLACK people. Africans. These Africans migrated all over the world, and climatic conditions led to changes in appearance - skin colour, hair texture etc.

OK. I won't address this.. Stick to the first point raised which is ifá and old testament
Just so you know.. You are the slave here not me. I actually know my origins and I'm proud of my origins
It takes a slave to claim who he is not

PS. Hamitic is an obsolete term.. Why on earth would you call me ignorant and thick skull yet use a term like "Hamite"?? WHAT IRONIE

No, you absolutely cannot. Do you realise that the ancients regarded southern Africa as the NORTH and the northern Africa as SOUTH? There is actually no reason to imagine that modern conventional geographic positioning is sacrosanct, as it all depends on what position you are viewing the earth from.

cardinal points are determined by the rise and setting of the sun not "position you are viewing from"

Dude, go on Google and type Yoruba - Hebrew similarities. Stop being a closed-minded dunce. The info is out there. It is nobody's job to educate you.

Such articles are false.. Direct me to one written by a babaláwo

If you don't want to educate why post your claims in the first place? What is your purpose on nairaland with all your so called "knowledge"? If you know you can't defend your claims you shouldn't make them public... Keep your nonsense to yourself then

Rossikki:
Don't be naive. The OT comprises stories about a people who lived in Israel at a certain point in time. Why would the names of the protagonists be the same as names in iFA accounts? What we are referring to is not identical stories, but identical cosmology.





Do not expect the names and stories to be the same. Look on the cosmology.




The original Babylonians, like the original Egyptians and Hebrews, were BLACK PEOPLE. The entire Middle East you see today was once a part of AFRICA, and was inhabited by majority black people. Only years of European influx led to intermarriage and a lightening of the skin colour of the people of that region. Those areas are now 'Arab' for the same reason the once all black SUDAN, is now part-Arab. Foreign influx/conquest.

So WHY would there not be certain correlations between IFA and the Old Testament, which you noted is derived from Babylonian/Sumerian texts?

Especially pivotal areas like Creation accounts? Those are bound to be similar, and they are.

Excerpts:

Many scholars have concluded that the founders of the first Mesopotamian civilization were Black Sumerians. Mesopotamia was the Biblical land of Shinar (Sumer), which sprung up around 3000 B.C.

After deciphering the cuneiform script and researching ancient Mesopotamia for many years Henry Rawlinson (1810-1895) discovered that the founders of the civilization were of Kushite (Cushite) origin. He made it clear that the Semitic speakers of Akkad and the non-Semitic speakers of Sumer were both Black people who called themselves sag-gig-ga or “Black Heads.”

Interestingly, Igbos call black people by a similar term today, ''Ndi isi Oggi'', or Black headed people.

John Baldwin wrote in his book “PreHistoric Nations” (1869): “The early colonists of Babylonia were of the same race as the inhabitants of the Upper Nile.”

This was corroborated by other scholars including, Chandra Chakaberty, who asserted in his book “A Study in Hindu Social Polity” that “based on the statuaries and steles of Babylonia, the Sumerians were “of dark complexion (chocolate colour), short stature, but of sturdy frame, oval face, stout nose, straight hair, full head; they typically resembled the Dravidians, not only in cranium, but almost in all the details.”

http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/04/16/5-ancient-black-civilizations-africa/5/

First the Babylonians were a Semitic people. Just like Arabs and Lebanese these people are not black.
But that's not the topic here... Do not derail
I can debunk all your claims of middle east being part of Africa but I do not want to derail.. Let's face one point


Simply post for everyone to see how recorded information in ifá is identical to old testament

As you intend to pass Babylonians and Hebrews as black people it doesn't end there.. You still have to pass the Babylonians and Hebrews as Yorubas to have a case to actually scrutinize. You have a lot of work cut out for you with this claims of yours

Olu317:
Trust me bro, I am not willing to sell my research cheaply. I want to be paid for it. Forgive me if I informed you in an unexpected way . Although I will post few ones here because of your scholarly approach even if I had posted on another thread but for you to see, I will highlight few ones. Like I had said, Olaochi is an Ibo man,whose knowledge isnt deep but Niger-Congocentric without evidence to show anything on scholarly adventurism
Quickly, do you know Ebi,Shodé,Ogun,etc are Semitic-Hebrew words with same cognate.

I have no evidence? Lmao.
The entire world of linguistics and anthropology put yoruba as a native African civilization which in itself is no cause for shame but you are ashamed of Africa and run away from anything Africa despite the linguistic cultural and genetic evidence
You don't need to look too much to find materials published by renouned researchers and professors in some of the biggest institutions

Yet it is some jobless guy who has never taken up a simple diploma that knows more than all the professors of the world

Ogun, Ebi etc are Hebrew words

It is a known fact that Yoruba Edo and Igbo split about 3000 years ago

Olu317:
You have problem and I know it. Sit at the comfort zone of home and wait for the revelation. Oh yes, I love being called the descendant of IWA–YHWH. Wisdom rest not in the bottom of the haughty mind. Please continue in your delusion that Linguistics claimed Yoruboid language separated from Igboid, Edoid 3,000 years ago. May be you need tell us the year the world language separated in present day Africa. You claim you know but you know nothing Mr. Proof ‘Ébi', Èlèdumarè, Èshù, Orisà etc that are eternal words with Oduduwa-ancient Yoruba . Proof the cognate among your so called Yoruba related languages and stop making mockery of yourself. Mind you I will taunt you with linguistic evidence and archeology. I mock you hilariously because you know nothing. Soon or later , you will subscribe for my journal or my book at the right time.

Note: You are a distraction .

C'est fini

I will always know more than the African who believes he is not African but Semitic

Goodluck on your book. I hope you won't have wasted your money and energy because I know you are not a scholar neither have you conducted any field reaserch

prolog2:
keep dreaming kid, The one and only Oba doesn't have your time, nor does he have ooni's time

Kid? Lmao. OK. Run along now

Olu317:
my bad! Pardon me. If your language is among the mentioned one,apart from itsekiri, kindly translate them to your local language,and if not let me know. The reason I asked you was that I have seen some people on this thread that have linked Yoruba with Igala language with the beginning of Yoruba existence and to the extent of calling Igala language as the first-ancient spoken language of Yoruba's. I think,oyatz or so said it. Hopefully, the listed words can be translated by these people to ascertain such if it is true or not. Information on these exposes all of us to the knowledge of people who inhabited the different location in Nigeria in the past,especially in the middle belt and southern Nigeria.

Yoruba linguists have proven that Igala is Yoruboid and the more eastern the yoruba dialect the more ancient elements it still possesses

That aside, using linguistic evidence it is already an established fact that Yoruboid, Igboid, and Edoid languages split around the confluence of the Niger and Benue rivers about 3000 years ago, which happend to be closer to the Igala homeland... so people who suggest that Igala is an ancient version of Yoruba might not be totally wrong

Ps you do not need to reply, I am just putting this out there... I have no energy to do another back and forth with someone who dreams of being Hebrew

davidnazee:
If Yorubas don’t claim Benin kingdom or our great Monarchy what else can they tout as evidence of Yoruba greatness?
Edo as the greatest kingdom to come out of West Africa, we have the mightiest and most revered king, Yoruba no get nothing so they lay claim to ours.

You can see i am rebuking the guy for that. Not all yorubas are insecure about their history and ancestry

But you are no better. This post of yours was unnecessary and quite idiotic.
First of all, Yoruba had many kingdoms.. Edo had one
Yoruba had an empire in Oyo that grew larger and more effective than benin
Mali, Songhai, Ghana (Wagadu), Sokoto, Kanem - bornu and even Oyo were greater west African states

You should expose yourself more to African history

Rossikki:
Don't be naive. The OT comprises stories about a people who lived in Israel at a certain point in time. Why would the names of the protagonists be the same as names in iFA accounts? What we are referring to is not identical stories, but identical cosmology.

Olaochi:

So it is written in the Bible that the God of the Bible said "let's create man in our image" and you somehow think that is Olódùmarè talking to the Orishas
OK. What Odu ifá was this statement "let's make man in our image" recorded?
Because it could as well be Odin talking to the Asgardians or Zeus talking to the Olympian Gods


Every person well educated in the subject knows that the old testament(especially the so called books of Moses) were heavily influenced by Babylonian traditions... Scholars suggest that most of Genesis was originally attributed to Anu and the Anunaki

...
You claimed Yoruba are jews and that ifá records and the old Testament are not far apart. So very clearly ifá being the record of all Yoruba knowledge the names Jewish ancestors should be recorded in multiple odù ifá and there should be obvious common elements that only the old testament and ifá share such that one could not ascribe to other sacred objects or records or proclaim as coincidence

Walamu:
So Awgu is second to the Olodumare? In Ifa Orunmila is the most highest deity next to Olodumare who has three manifestations, so who is the most high deity in your Igbo faith?

Who is the thunder deity?

Who is the fire deity?

And what sigils or sacred script do you use to contact Awgu?

Olódùmarè having 3 manifestations is a santeria idea. It's not original to yoruba traditions

Rossikki:
I've no time to list ten, though I'm certain there are even more linkages than that. Most important however has to be the similarity between the presence of 'Other Gods'....or the 'Elohim' in the Old Testament creation accounts - ''Let Us make man in OUR image...''' - and the presence of the Orishas who serve Olodumare, the Supreme Creator, in the IFA accounts.

. are you kidding??

You can't list a single link and you proclaim records in ifá is the same thing as the information in the Old Testament. Talking as if you are one expert


I Would like to know where in ifá Abraham or Moses or David was mentioned or where in the Old Testament Orunmila or Òkè Itase or Odu was mentioned


So it is written in the Bible that the God of the Bible said "let's create man in our image" and you somehow think that is Olódùmarè talking to the Orishas
OK. What Odu ifá was this statement "let's make man in our image" recorded?
Because it could as well be Odin talking to the Asgardians or Zeus talking to the Olympian Gods


Every person well educated in the subject knows that the old testament(especially the so called books of Moses) were heavily influenced by Babylonian traditions... Scholars suggest that most of Genesis was originally attributed to Anu and the Anunaki

Rossikki:
The fact you think your history is only limited to ''Yoruba history'' shows that you are operating on a very limited, parochial, ethnocentric level of history. The level of AFRICAN HISTORY is what you need to operate on. That way you will be able to understand the various... linkages.

How have anything I posted limited history to only yorubas?

OK. African history.. Got it. Now where is the link between odù ifá and the Jewish tanahk?
Or since you have brought up African history. How are jews are part of African history

banku:
My friend, there is nothing wrong with saying you are not aware.

Dismissing well researched work of Professor Thurston Shaw on radiocarbon dating, Prof. Peter Ekeh and others that put burial of Ogiso and Oba body parts even well before the historical account Of Jacob E. by fiat is frivolous and superficial.

If you can do better show us your work or authorities. This has gone beyond beer parlor discussion. This is why I ignore those that could not articulate their points but use slur and Obscene languages to cover their ignorance.

Again you don't know the difference between Ogiso and ọba.


I'm sure the author of that article doesn't even know where the Ogisos were buried

Stop claiming other people.. It's disgusting and tells a bad tale about yorubas.. The Obas are yoruba but leave the Ogiso

banku:
https://allafrica.com/stories/200405100888.html

Nigeria: Heads of Former Benin Monarchs Were Actually Buried in Ile- Ife, Says Prince Isede

PRINCE Michael Isede, a grand son of the last Ogiso of Benin Kingdom and deputy national chairman, Community Development Committee of Oil Producing Communities in Delta State, says heads of former Benin monarchs were buried in Ife.

"The Ooni is very right in saying that Oduduwa came from heaven. Nobody can doubt it because we have it here in Benin too. The Bini people believe that God usually comes down to decide issues. What actually happened is this- the last Ogiso who was my great grand father was an autocratic ruler, he could tell Benin people that nobody should meet any woman for three months or eat for three days and nobody will dare contrevene his order. So the people were not happy with his dictatorship, they held a meeting and called the seven Uzamas to remove him. Evian was the brother to Ogodomigodo, both Oliha' sons.

You obviously don't know the difference between Ogiso and Oba

Ọba came from Ifẹ̀. Ogiso has nothing to do with ife..at least nothing that there is evidence for

Agwu is similar to Orummila of the Yoruba

samuk:
Unlike other Yoruba Obas, the Oba of Lagos does not recognise the authority of the Ooni as his superior because the Oba of Lagos recognises the Oba of Benin as his father. The article said the other lesser Yoruba Oba including the Alafin of Oyo vacated their palaces because two Obas cannot be in the same town at the same time, but the article never said the Oba of Lagos vacated his palace. No descendant of the Oba of Benin sees any other Oba as his superior other than the Oba of Benin.

You like talking about what you don't know. The same ọba of benin is a son of the Ọọ̀ni

And there is no such thing as lesser ọba. Everyone is supreme in his domain, Ọọ̀ni cannot go to Ikole Ekiti and tell the Oba there what to do
Ìfẹ̀ gave independence to all its princes that went out to found their own dynasties.. But these princes have their own ways of showing respect to the stool of their father

banku:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.modernghana.com/amp/news/798752/the-ogiso-of-bini-ijaw-came-from-ile-ife.html

Your link talks about Ogiso body parts buried in Ifè..
That's false. There were no Ogiso buried in Ifè

I read through and honestly the entire article is not written out of research.. But opinions

If slave owners accepted yoruba traditions there wouldn't have been any need for syncretism with catholism...and even in syncretism the original ideas would have been totally abandoned. However that's not the case. They were "catholics" to the slave masters in public but yoruba traditionalists in the closet. Let's face it. It is the strong will of the Yoruba slaves in preserving their traditions. Simple as that

There is even a place called Abeokuta in Jamaica

prolog2:
You guys act like real psychopaths, how many times must the Oba tell you he is not yoruba and didn't come from your smelly Ife? You guys have real issues.

Ọba of benin never said he didn't come from Ifẹ̀. In fact during his coronation he proclaimed Oranmiyan to be the first ọba of benin

You seem like a real psychopath

BabaRamota1980:
The 1st dynasty of Ogiso Chiefdom came from Ife and installed on Edo.

Evidence?

davidnazee:
Guy you be mugu sha. Is USA a commonwealth nation?

You are an iidiot. Look at this fool calling his betters mugu. It is only idiocy that would make someone claim anioma are Edos

If the USA is not British the anioma are not Edos simply put... Being once a vassal territory does not put USA or Anioma eternally under their former imperialist powers

davidnazee:
Commonwealth nations are independent of England but they still recognize the Queen as their monarch and overlord..
My point is that all those places u mentioned; Anioma, Esan are still traditionally part of Edo nation. If Nigeria breaks they will all peacefully and willingly band together to make one nation. Maybe we will have to conquer the Biafrans if they lay claim to Anioma but Anioma will stay part of Benin Empire.

That is like saying USA is still traditionally part of Britain
Or Edo is still part of Britain

You should think sometimes

banku:
You guys need to stop deluding yourselves and stop putting the cart before the horse.

Stop comparing Bini to world powers with well documented and obvious evidence. Usurpers are yet to produce even local evidence as local champions. They have been asked over and over again.

A 2003 or so book to revise well documented history by a Yoruba Oba that felt slighted in a meeting with his brothers is not evidence.

Oba Iwo will soon be used too to buttress rogue history of Yoruba. Even Oba of Lagos had to retreat when it was pointed out that his pathernal side was Alagba from Ilesha.

More important, as pointed out, Bini are our brothers and sisters any day. Edo is a different matter because they are a mixture of the original inhabitants of the rain forest ie the Efa and Oru.

Edo begged Bini from Ife to deliver them from their Ogiso rulers, ironically from Ife too.

Nobody, not even the Oba of Bini could or can throw the most prominent and world respected authority on Bini under the bus or blackmail him.

The one and only Jacob U. Egharevba.

The ogiso were not from Ifẹ̀... At least no still existing traditional links then or the Ogiamien to Ìfẹ̀

Rossikki:
Why don't you just address the post you quoted instead of talking rubbish about where you think I am from?

Many African-Americans know more about your own history than you. And the point here is not to separate the bible from IFA, because if you had true historical knowledge, you would know that the two are not that far apart at all, especially with regard to the old testament.

Any AA that knows Yoruba history more than me would have to have dumped the Bible. Using the Bible to discuss Yoruba history is pseudo-history

Rossikki:
Why don't you just address the post you quoted instead of talking rubbish about where you think I am from?

Many African-Americans know more about your own history than you. And the point here is not to separate the bible from IFA, because if you had true historical knowledge, you would know that the two are not that far apart at all, especially with regard to the old testament.

Are you a babaláwo or have you contacts to babaláwos to know anything about ifa such that you think you can Form an opinion about it?

You just sit in the comfort of your bedroom talking about ifa like it's your area of expertise

Tell me 10 things that stand in common between the informations recorded in the Odu Ifá and the Jewish Tanahk

hammer6F:
WHO TOLD U DAT MEN DO THIS ALL OVER THE WORLD?

IS DAT THE LIE PERVERT TELL DEMSELVES?

THIS IS DESPICABLE AND APPALLING BEHAVIOUR.

You must have a mental deficiency to think sexual harassment is exclusive to black men

Something is really wrong with you

Rossikki:
Of course the Yorubas, like most modern-day forest West Africans/Central Africans etc, descended from fleeing ancient Israelites. The forest West Africans - the Igbo, Ashanti, Akan, Yoruba, Edo, Efik, etc, are not regarded as real Africans by the Sahel/Saharan Africans, ie the Hamitic Africans, who see themselves as the original dwellers on the continent. They actually KNOW that the forest West Africans are descended from fleeing Israelites. It is the Israelites themselves - us - who don't know who we are. And this was prophesied in the Old Testament. This......blindness. Black suffering/slavery was also prophesied in Deuteronomy 28. In verse 68, there's a clear reference to the transatlantic slave trade that saw blacks - the forest West Africans - shipped in their millions to the modern day 'Egypt' - the United States.

“And the Lord will take you back to Egypt IN SHIPS, by the way of which I said to you, ‘You shall never see it again.’ And there you shall be offered for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but no one will buy you.”


Ultimately, Yahweh promises redemption of the Israelites from their woes, which he had decreed because of their ancient disobedience to his laws.

Zephaniah 3:10

''From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia my suppliants, even the daughter of my dispersed, shall bring mine offering.''

Geographically, ''beyond the rivers of Ethiopia", ie the Nile, is.... West Africa.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6e/7e/4a/6e7e4ab1bd14cd8857c34a88eb59d8bb.jpg

You are obviously very ignorant about West African traditions. I'm sure you are African American
Or at least get your ideas from African Americans

You should involve yourself more in Ifá and other west African traditions not Bible...

davidnazee:
Yes you are RIGHT!! before the British came there was no Bendel, no Edo state, no Delta state.. But there was BENIN KINGDOM and your Anioma was part of Benin Kingdom domain and will always remain in that territory no matter the name change..

Benin empire not kingdom. Anioma was part of benin empire.. But the historic Benin kingdom doesn't even extend to cover all bini speaking areas. For example Utantan was not part of Benin kingdom since it has its own king - the Ogiemien

However Benin empire expanded past bini speaking areas but after the British destroyed the empire all its vassals gained independence since the land never belonged to Benin in the first place and now political authority does not have anything to do with Oba of benin
So Anioma is independent from Benin, even Esan is independent from Benin

Before you argue this (which I know your small mindedness would like to argue) think about Nigeria and Britain
Nigeria was under the British empire but gained independence.. Hence Nigeria doesn't answer to the British, nor does the land belong to the British

hammer6F:
WHO TOLD U DAT MEN DO THIS ALL OVER THE WORLD?

IS DAT THE LIE PERVERT TELL DEMSELVES?

THIS IS DESPICABLE AND APPALLING BEHAVIOUR.

You are obviously not exposed. Travel or watch the news.
Men like this are everywhere in the world.. It's not a black man thing

Again. Stop your self hate

hammer6F:
THAT IS SOMEBODY MOTHER OR GRAND MOTHER.

LET US NOT EVEN MENTION WIFE.

THAT BASTARD, THAT IS DOING DAT, IF THEY BRING HIM OUT NOW AND POUR HIM PETROL, PUT TYRE ROUND HIS NECK, WE WILL COMPLAIN AND SAY NOTHING SHOULD LEAD TO THAT BUT LOOK AT THE NONSENSE HE IS DOING.

IS THE WOMAN SUPPOSE TO GET AROUSE FROM HIM TOUCHING HER ASS OR START REASONING LIKE HIM?

THE BLACK MAN REALLY HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO.

Men do this all over the world. it has nothing to do with Black man. stop your selfhate

fero007:
wey you, we minorities feed this country, so call us with respect

and pH is not Igbo dominated, Igbos don't own a grain of sand in ph, ph is shared between d ikwerres and d ijaws. and I mean main ph town itself, I stay in ph so if you tell me odawise I'll know ur lying

so because you are a minority you want everybody to be minority like you. Same way you are saying Efik and Ibibio do not belong together when everybody calls them 'calabar people'
I now see your sinister motive