BabaRamota1980: Hey Olaochi and Rhektor, I had too much drink last night. I just got up and couldnt believe my eyes at what i posted.
Please forgive me brothers. Thats not me at all. I take God beg una,no take offense. If you did please forgive. I go stay away from posting next time i get awoof heineken.
Why so many matched words and meanings between Yoruba and English? Are these borrowed as well or are these coincidences? Why is "pelu" in Yoruba a cognate with "plus" in English? .
I need to ask Queen where her ancestors got these words from.
ó gbé tuntun de
So the English came from Yorubas now? Or the Yoruba came from the English? ... Why not stick to the Arab case you were previously on about Jumping around would only make you appear as a clown And if anything already defeats your Semitic connection claim since anybody can connect Yoruba to any group of people on the planet..be it English, Japanese, Mayans, Arabs
If you look for similar words between Yoruba and any language of the world you would find.. So Obviously the Semitic argument is dumb
Olu317: Well said but playing a role means participatory.That's the point. Otun history didn't connect their ancestors to chiefly lineage at ancient ILEIFE but of a close relationship with Oodua in his lifetime. I am sure you know Otun was the one that ask for the Ókún water to be used for washing of Odua's eyes problem,from which Óbúokun/Óbókun derived his kingly title because he was the one that fetched the water from the Ocean . Definitely, Otun was a Priest.
The story litters the internet.
WHY DID YOU COME TO SAVE THAT YOUNG GUY'S FACE? I wanted him to chew his pride because he is not well read, arrogant, provocative and good at using vulgar words.
Cheers
Anybody who thinks I am not well read is entitled to their opinion but the reality is that you are beneath me in knowledge For someone who I have called out up to 10 times for posting false information you don't seem to be capable of ìtìjú
Olu317: Yes ,Leo built a case against Europeans and not in their favour because what he saw in his life time was enough to praise sing Yorubas achievement,because it was beyond his imagination. What if Leo Fronebius had seen the discovery in 1939? Let me quickly say this to you because you probably didn't see what Professor Leo did when he rated Yorubas as an outstanding people with a class beyond many African kingdoms. He simply did a research but was unable e complete before his death. Have you even forgotten that, Africa as a name didn't exist many centuries ago? Why then do you not see that probability of groups migration to different places for one reason or the other were possible. Human fossils discovered in Yoruba land at Iwo Eleru is just 13,000+ years old . .The Moroccan fossils, by contrast, are roughly 300,000 years old,while in Misliya, Mount Carmel, Israel has a fossil that is outside Africa which has been dated to between 177,000 and 200,000 years old. Lastly ,The Ethiopian fossils has been dated to be betwen 160,000 and 195,000 ... Let me now clear your doubt, the Iwo Eleru fossil is not YORUBA ANCESTOR. Furthermore, Otun in present day Moro, Ekiti,categorically said,his ancestors were not Odua descendants but adopted son . Have you read the Otun account of Yoruba history? Infact, it was claimed ,that Otun ancestors emerged from the ocean and Ooni Odua welcomed their leader and his followers to his abode . This account, do you beleive it? Till infinity, Otun is part of corronation of all Oonis . The point here is that there is migration of Yorubas to present day Yoruba land in Nigeria.
You just love to speak so much and make claims.. The current Ọọ̀ni had his coronation in 2015..no Otun chief was recorded to be there to do anything Unless you are part of the coronation initiates who might know of such details not made public, I don't see how you would be so sure that Otun plays a part in the coronation of the Ọọ̀ni
Later you would claim to have mysteries. Still baffling how a Christian feels he knows so much about Yoruba traditions
Because Yoruba culture is well organized and of a certain level doesn't make it any less African
Chinese culture is sophisticated and it's ancient society well organized doesn't mean it is less east Asian. Aztec culture too.. Don't mean the Aztec were Hebrews or Canaanites
Semitic genes or European genes aren't superior.. Get that socialdarwinist pseudoscience outta your head
Yoruba culture being well organized is not due to Semitic origin but simply the ability of an African people to develop independently when they work together and plan properly
This is what we get from people who can't detach themselves from their foreign religions
TonySpike: At the bolded, you have just justified my statement(s) and shot yourself on the foot. I have no further arguments for you.
How did she/he shoot herself /himself on the foot The person was obviously making a case for the indigenous nature of yoruba culture not every culture in the world
Btw the person asked you a question... What proof do you have to challenge well established scholarly opinions that Yoruba is indigenous to west Africa... Which BTW is backed by every available evidence
I dont think linguist should be allowed to apply rules obtained from empirical studies conducted using European languages on laguages and tongues outside the realm of European cultures.
Language, as sound, carries emotions. Emotions are planted with cultural nuances. So the emotion expressed out of a Yoruba person in witness of a immoral conduct will be different from how an Igala would perceive it, even though both will find the act repulsive. This is why a Yoruba might say "yee, egbami o!" in shock....while the Igala might express the shock in a different emotive.
Africans generally respond to environment through emotions, we apply logic later. Europeans are opposite of that.
The rules and protocols of linguistics are put together under a logical approach....and is why they missed the points by far in Sound articulation between the various tongues aggregated into groups and families.
I believe same issue as this was discovered in women cosmetics in America when African-American women in the 80s came on the pages of Jet and Ebony to decry the stereotypes in pharmacology and dermatology with their assumptions that whatever works on a European skin can be applied and will work for black skin.
Do we have rules and protocols of sound experiments on African vocals conducted and instituted by African linguists? We do not. Our languages are coded based on rules that worked for foreign tongues.
Irin and Iron are same thing and carry same concept, shouldnt need a linguist to see that.
Is Ufe (Benin) and Ife (Yoruba) not the same? Is Eko (Yoruba) and Ikko (Hausa) not same? Is Ogbomosho and Ogbomoso not same?
In fact, Iduro (Yoruba) and Endure (English) are same. Akoro (Yoruba) and Coronet (English) are same.
Okun (Yoruba) and Ocean (English) are same. Orisha (Yoruba) and Oracle (English) are same.
Dont make me exhaust all my little knowledge of Yoruba words on one page abeg.
and Otsuki (Japanese for moon) and Osukpa (Yoruba for moon) are same, Omi (water) and Mizu are the same. Ilé" house in Yoruba is "Ie" in Japanese
Anybody can link up any two unrelated languages with a few words that are merely coincidental, it takes a trained linguist to prove these words are actual cognates
Goodluck with that university degree and defending your thesis amongst fellow linguists
Since you are no scholar only a slowpoke would take you seriously over actual scholars in the field
BabaRamota1980: What will serve as evidence to show that the Yoruba Irin is same as English Iron and that it was copied from Yoruba?
same way any two words are proven to be cognate
But first of all are you a linguist? You do realize studying such social sciences in the university equips one with the rules and hints of how to properly embark on research and how to identify credible sources?
BabaRamota1980: Let him come here and deny it. I will blow his mind why this IleIfe and Nineveh are sister cities.
Hey Olaochi do you know why Yoruba say Irin but Oyinbo say Iron? Where did they get the idea to copy Yoruba? Our ancestors were great but no classroom will teach some of these secrets or glorify and credit their originality. Thats why im here to correct it.
Its a pity you don't have a single evidence to back a single claim
BabaRamota1980: Obalufon, even ya own name sef is the name of an ancient priest of Arabia.
Yoruba have priest-kings. The Oba in their title is the priestly line. The throne title is unique and this is their king or sovereign or military line.
Like Ooni, Oba followed by name Alaafin, Oba followed by name Alake, Oba followed by name Awujale, Oba followed by name Deji, Oba followed by name
So Obalufon, this name you adopt, came from Yoruba priests once lived in Arabia.
At one point Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Mesopotamia, all used to be seat of world power.
To the South and West you had AfroAsia. To the North and East you have Eurosia.
From that epicenter some drifters went North and some came South.
Yoruba was one of those that came South. The seat of the Yoruba power settled amongst the aborigines of Ugboland, which they the settlers renamed Ile Ife. The Ugbo language does not have Il in its lexicon.
Il which is prefix in Ila (branch), Ile (house), Ile (ground), Ilo(down), Ilo (passage), Ilu (town). The merging concept here is space in relation to earth. We can therefore assign a weight or code to any vowelized sound that carries "Il" as a prefix. There are many prefix sounds in Yoruba that carries a concept of phenomenal meaning or weight. Abi is another one. Abike, Abidemi, Abiodun, Abiola.... Here too any Abi prefix should be assign a weight or code. How about Al? Alamu, Alabi, Alake....give Al its own weight.
At the end you will find that we have attributes that can be invoked for special utilities and progression.
The prefixes were crypted letters that ancestors used in their previous abode in Afroasia. Go look in semitic names they are filled with it. This is why it seems Arabic names are Yorubanized. Hell no,....Yoruba names returned to its original owners. Ilmi, Illah, AIimi, Alawiy (Alawiye in Yoruba), Alamin, Abu, Absalom, Abil....
Going back to IleIfe the Il connotes "space related with earth", used here for the settlement of Ife.
Do you ever wonder why the word in English language to conceptualize existence and survival is a cognate of IFE? Life, Love.
So what really is Obalufon?
We now what Oba is, a denotion for priest. Where did this Ufon come from?
Yoruba is synonymous with burnt offering. The first priest to erect an altar for burnt offering was Noah. We are modeling the character of this righteous ancestor of Yorubas when we say Omoluabi, Omonuabi.
Ever since Noah the descendants began building Temples and in these sacred and holy grounds they will place an altar for burnt offering. No one is allowed to come into the sanctum in state of impurity. All must cleanse at the entrance to the Temple. The cleansing itself was observed as an act of worship. The objects of worship were crafted specially by a priest. Do you hear me? The basins and urns used for cleansing before access in the Temple were under dedication to a priest of lefon. These objects were the brass levon at entrance and some in the temple itself for burning incense because incense was also part of purification and cleansing.
The priest of lefon. Obalefon or Obalifon is what became Obalufon.
This cleansing is till done till today before entering temple. Muslims do the ablution and it came from Obalufon.
This why Obalufon is the priest of brass/bronze.
Any questions?
Hey meta, Alaye mi, what you think?
nice weed you are smoking there. funniest post yet
0balufonlll: While I totally agree with your thoughts quoted above, you’ll need to understand that sometimes you’ll just have to let people pursue the views they find interest or succor in. Yoruba is blessed with the 50s history research scheme, we have a large part of our history in black & white for people who can/will read & for those who visit their hometowns, monthly conpound meetings are avenue to learn history and there will always be 1 or two person in a family who is a repository of history. If we would have gone the way of Ibos, I think it would have been decades after Johnson’s book but works that emanated from the Ibadan school of history eroded its effect till today.
The M.East origins of the Yoruba or the Yoruba origin of the M.East hypothesis is something I’ve disagreed with people on since my early days on NL.
You should please hold it at the back of your mind that the trigger of this Yoruba Arab origin theory has its basis in Sultan Bello’s information given to Clapperton which was in reference to Oyo-Ile known then as Yarba/Yoruba/Yoruba by other Empires in W.Africa. The application of that theory to Ife on paper started with Baba S. Johnson. In summary, the theory has a very BS foundation. [No insult intended to anyone].
You’ll also find that, looking back in time still, Christians/non-muslims began to ascribe Egypt or Hebrew origins to Yoruba. Those who have pursued this theory in literatures have always been men of the church. This theory has a BS foundation too; it sprang up to give Yoruba Christians an origin in other places other than Saudi Arabia/Mecca.
Thus far, these theories have been heavily recycled on NL but the interesting thing about the entire thing is that, the muslims seem to be the ones pursuing & propagating the Arab/Mecca theiry while Christians have been the ones pursuing the Egypt/Hebrew theory. Interesting isn’t it?
You’ll just have to be selectively blind to threads and the theories they pursue. I have been caught up in an endless engagement with people on NL and while some have dropped the whole Mecca/Hebrew fantasy, some are still hard at it and have continued to do more research on it - I wish them goodluck.
There are certain areas of every study that are off limits. Where Yoruba migrated from is one of them. Scholars of repute have posited that Yoruba folks migrated to different parts in the present SW from some location around the Niger River. Nobody has gone beyond that.
So, until a Pro-Arab, a Pro-Egypt & a Pro-Hebrew can conduct a research, put all of the evidences together in an academic paper & publish it in reputed any journal without getting their careers ruined then all of it is just an activity to kill time.
Thnk you. I was actually having my fun at the beginning until I realized these guys aren't out for facts and acedemic research but just sentimental attachments to where their religions come from.
I just hope those who rely on internet sources for Yoruba history would watch out and not believe everything they read from self acclaimed historians
Yell me anywhere in the world ever colonized with archeology or dna? Anywhere....!
I can give you over 100 civilizations toppled with religion, belief system (doctrines) and language.
Metaphysical is a very smart guy, he never said archeology is irrelevant or dna is insignificant or scholarship should be abandoned....no he recognizes and acknowledges their place in human knowledgebase. Assuming Yoruba is aborigene what was its spiritual belief at the founding of mankind in Ife as Yoruba claims? Go see the post he made two days ago on that thread by prexios, i think its called origin of Yoruba language or something like that. Does this person look to you like someone not proud of his Yoruba heritage?
Hati failed to see where metaphysical was saying lets focus on the thread. He kept telling him "you are sick"....so the guy showed his sicko side. . I mean, i dont see anything wrong in that. If i say you are mental i cant complain if you show bring your mental in my face.
There is nothing smart about a person that lays silly curses on a faceless forum or cant recognize academic works.
Obviously since the assumed proto-Yoruba-Igbo-Edo group has split into 3 major groups over 3000years now the belief system of that proto group is no more, we can only find traces within the descendant groups which feature as similarities
Examples: The presence of a Trickster Deity Esu (Yoruba) Ekwensu(Igbo) who is a mediating deity between man and the Gods in both traditions, the presence of a Divination system based on the same basic divination tools Ifa(Yoruba) and Afa (igbo), the presence of the guardian spirit associated with Destiny Ori (Yoruba) Chi (Igbo). There has not been any particular study on Yoruba/Igbo traditional religion but African Traditional Religions are held to hold the same basic tenets like Ancestor worship, family specific deity, Masquerades as spiritual agents, marking the body with white chalk during religious rituals etc
BabaRamota1980: Its possible he has cogent information and very convincing points....he ruined it all with his offensive approach.
Nobody in this region can match what Yoruba has. Everybody else in the region are alike, except Yoruba, and the difference come from the Afroasia input.
I am not opposed to the greater status of Yoruba civilization.. But you need to prove that this difference is not just because the branch of the proto-Yoruba-Edo-Igbo group that became Yorubas were simply better organized due to right planning...Semitic genes is not what makes Civilization.. You have an inferiority complex, you have given in to the European and Semitic socialdarwinist idea that Africans are lesser specie.
That input is what metaphysical uses to advance his arguments. He ignores completely all the razzmatazz about carbon dating and dna and archeology and attacks straight on the teligious and spiritual practices and belief systems.
Let me share what metaphysical once told me to convince me to his side.
He says When England colonized us they did not use archelogy, no dna, no carbon dating, no scholarship. They used religion, spiritual beliefs and language to colonize us. We will need to decolonize ourselves through same avenur, not with carbon dating and dna or other nonsense waved around and called scholarship.
This is what made me a believer in the Yoruba migrant story.
Yet in order to gain confidence in yourself you have to claim to be Arabs and Hebrews. Have you really decolonized yourself? How is putting yourself under Arabs and Hebrews empowering? In order to fight the the colonizing effects of the Europeans and Arabs Africans need to totally push all their tools of oppression and seek Archaeology, carbon dating, Dna and Scholarship... Metaphysics is a Saboteur...imagine what he told you and you actually thought it made sense? How can an oppressed take up his oppressors tools and keep using it against himself?
Metaphysical told you to reject Archaeology , and other sciences but pick religion? wow!
Olu317: I don't lack proper Education sonny. You are the one that need do better or humbly proof our works/ research wrong. Imaging what you did OlaOchi? You are not agreeing to JOSEPH GREENBERG, a man vast in linguistics any more?Come off it dear.
We don't dislike you but want you to exhibit a real Omoluabi's attitude, even when you have a point to share. Mind you, Hamitic being used by Greenberg's analysis even cover what you sent . After all, he made it a reference in his research that the classifiers lumped a lot of languages together and which need not be so but because of their rush to make a point on Africa languages. So take it easy and learn from the hidden mystery some of us who are willing to share.
Joseph Greenberg was wrong to use the word 'Hamitic' but that was a long time ago... The word 'hamitic' is obsolete now, no Scholar regards 'hamitic' as a language group or race anymore.
Stop digressing though, Just go straight to post something on Yoruba being Hebrews
You dont exhibit Omoluabi yourself.
Hidden mystery? you are not even a traditionalist, what hidden mystery do you have? what hidden mystery of Yoruba 'idolatrous' traditions can a christian like yourself have? Are you initiated?
BabaRamota1980: That guy has been here aand had debates with guys that are far superior than you in terms of knowledge, exposure and accomplishments and the debate did not enter into gutter. They remained opposed from beginning to end and with decorum and respect across.
But i was offended first. I already said it before that i dont identify as Igbo, you people wanted to imply that i am Igbo and have no say in Yoruba matters, you know that is foul play
Although i did not call anybody bastard directly, i did imply it and i am sorry. But if you have been able to prove you are Hebrews or Arabs since last week you wouldn't have taken offence. I said a man who doesnt know his father is a bastard, by taking offence you agree that you do not know your father
It is also a lie that he has not been engaged in throwing abusive words, he called Hati31 a Punk
This is why to me you will be omo ibo, you exhibit all the characteristics of Ibos on nairaland.
1. You are offensively loud 2. You do not display Omoluabi 3. Instead of attack points you attack Yorubaness of your opponent and insult them for not agreeing with you. 4. You called a person older than you omoale and when warned you did not desist. 5. You failed to provide tangible Yoruba values outside of what is available on internet. 6. You failed to define laba or provide the essence of sigidi 7. You discredit great Yoruba scholars and disrepute their achievements because it does not support your argument.
2. Anybody that does what you dont like is not Omoluabi, you Hebrews and Arabs throw this "Omoluabi" around as a weapon when you are guilty of the same thing you accuse someone of...are you displaying omoluabi by lying and insulting me? We can only accuse eachother of not displaying omoluabi, as far as i am concerned omoluabi is subjective.
3. I addressed every point, it is because I do it so well that you people are frustrated and angered, I have a reply for every falsehood. You people are the ones leaving questions unanswered and are too ashamed to admit when you dont have answers. You are the ones that attacked my Yorubaness, you said I am Igbo. If i say you are not proper Yoruba, I said that in context of having a complex and sentiment towards the people who gave you your religions, that is why no traditionalist would say Yoruba are Hebrews or Arabs. You are not Yoruba at mind, you are trying to be here and there at the same thing, a conflict of loyalty, If Yorubaland was a sovereign state people like you can betray the country and commit treason in favor of Middle eastern countries because it is obvious you hold Arabs and Hebrews to highest esteem...Its because of your religion
4. You do not know my age and Metaphysical not an elder, no elderly persons says 'fuvk you punk' stop licking his ass, be your own man.
5. Did i post any false information? If i get my information from Internet, was any false? I refrain from making my own claims, if i start giving you information you cannot verify how credible does that make me? You expect me to be like Metaphysical and Olu who invent History? You people make claims, ok prove it, you cannot..I just tell you what Scholars have proven, what all Institutions accept as fact. Point out any falsehood from me!
6. I answered your questions on Laba and Shigidi dont lie. Now how do Laba and Shigidi connect to Hebrews?
7. Metaphysical mentioned Oduyoye and Lucas, tell me one University that they have lectured? One Institute that endorsed that work? Oduyoye said all Nigerians have semitic connection, you say it is only Yoruba...have you not seen you and Metaphysics are saying what Oduyoye didnt say
You see that last one, thats unforgiveable. Macof, the hardcore Yoruba aborigene activist, in all the times Ive listened to him and followrd him, that guy will never yield an inch of ground to the Yoruba migrant people but........you will never ever ever hear him disrepute any Yoruba scholar whether on his side or on oppositr side. Same goes for 9jacrip, terracota and a host of them.
Even if you are yoruba, your attitude and ways do not concile with us....then you are asking us to see Yoruba on same scale with yanminri. Are you crazy? When you add ibo here you see my red eyes.
I didnt invent the idea that Yoruba, Edo and Igbo separated around 3000 years ago. The Scholars who did provided evidence and that is why all Universities of the world teach. Including Universities in Nigeria by Yoruba professors
BabaRamota1980: Let me tell you something. In nairaland there are people that will take what you said as ordinary banter and reply you with omoale back and fight with you on net. Its not everybody here that are like you and i. If you tell me omoale you sef go hear am from reply wey i go give u. But noy everyone is like us. Its your job to differentiate and know how u talk to people. You can aleays know when to back off if you insult person once, twice, three times and their response is always respectful and calm....that person is not the type you should keep insulting, return the respect. Simple! When the person even warn you say dont do it and then you did again you have given that person the right to attack you in any way fashion or form. You see you Ibos dont know that if you attack a person you arm them to come at you.....and you cannot dictate how their retaliation will be carried out.
I will call you Ibo cause thats what you are. You can insult me, im not metaphysical i wll give to you in doublefold.
Go back and read that man as many times he cautioned you to be humble. Go back and read his posts. Even nairaland mods sef go gree say you were wrong in the way you talked to that guy. Get sense my brother.
I didnt mean it as a banter, I dont banter. What you people are doing here can be grievous..many people still rely on internet for all their knowledge on Yoruba, when they start reading claims of Yoruba having Semitic origins without being challenged or questioned for evidence you will find that Yoruba identity would have been Sabotaged and its history lost...take a look at Igbos, a total mess with all that Hebrew origin nonsense that is very popular among them, hardly will you find an igbo person that knows any Igbo history. Yoruba cannot be allowed to be like that. If you come with any claim, be prepared to provide evidence or shut up.
Again stop calling me Igbo, My father is not Igbo and I do not identify as Igbo, I take great offence at that because i know your aim and reason for calling me Igbo. You cannot come here hypocritically telling me to not 'offend' when i warned you people not to call me Igbo severally, that is an attempt to discredit my personality - a very foul play, that is insult and he attacked me first but your bias self being of the same 'Semitic origin theory' as him will not say the truth. You can call your mods... Calling me Igbo is telling me I don't know my father, so stop trying to be pretentious, it falls flat
Fact remains I am more Yoruba than you all who deny your Yoruba ancestors. And it is not a lie that a man who doesn't know his father is a bastard, i never called anyone bastard directly, he knows that he cannot defend his claims that is why he resorted to curses shows that he cant deal with being questioned, it shows that he cannot prove Arabs are his fathers. Of course lies cannot stand the test of time, and when liars are faced with challenge they melt
BabaRamota1980: Olu, where u dey, abeg help me beg metaphysical to soften. I see where he warned this guy to stop using vulgar words on him, but he continued, so i cant blame metaphysical....but this is open forum, agbalagba must exercise restraint and forgive even when small pikin offend. Add mouth beg this man. This is heavy stuffs, we dont want this on a discussion like this that can be retrieved by anybody and anywhere. Not good. Abi wetin you think?
This same metaphysical was insulting Hati31
You are calling him Àgbàlagbà (elder) Elder kọ̀ Elf lọ bá jẹ. What elder says "fuvk you punk" to another person just because he doesn't have answers to prove his myth is better than Ethiopian myth
Stephen Adebanji Akintoye, also known as S. Banji Akintoye (born 1935), is a Nigerian-born academic, historian and writer. He attended Christ's School Ado Ekiti, Nigeria from 1951–1955,[1] and studied history at the University College (Overseas College of the University of London), Ibadan (1956–1961), and doctoral studies from 1963-1966 at the University of Ibadan, where he was awarded a PhD in History in 1966. He taught at the History Department at Obafemi Awolowo University, Ile-Ife, Nigeria, where he became a professor and Director of the Institute of African Studies from 1974-1977. He has also taught African History in universities in the United States including the University of South Florida, Tampa, Florida; Montgomery County Community College, PA, and Eastern University, St. Davids, Pennsylvania. Akintoye has written four books, chapters in many joint books, and several articles in scholarly journals. He took a leading part for some time in the politics of Nigeria and served on the Nigerian Senate from 1979–1983 during the Second Republic. He currently lives in Pennsylvania in the United States.
Akintoye is one of the current leading scholars on the history of the Yoruba people.[citation needed] His most recent work, A History of the Yoruba People (Amalion, 2010), draws on decades of new findings and thinking on Yoruba studies that challenges some previously dominant notions about the origins of the Yoruba. This work dispels the Middle Eastern and Arabia origins propounded by such scholars as the late Samuel Johnson (1846–1901) and also gave prominence to the works on the Pre-Oduduwa Period by Ulli Beier among others.[2][3] Akintoye also gave prominence to the role of Ilé-Ifè over that of Oyo. A reviewer, Wale Adebanwi, notes: "...this book directly contests and shifts the focus of Yoruba history away from what many have called the Oyo-centric account of Samuel Johnson... Where Johnson avoids the creation myth that positions Ife as the sacred locus of Oduduwa’s original descent and the orirun (creation-source), Akintoye, justifiably, restores Ile-Ife to its proper place as “ibi ojumo ti mon wa’ye” (where the dawn emerges)
BabaRamota1980: Shut up abeg! the guy told you dont use that word or any vulgar when you talk to him. Did he not warn you? Can you discuss without be abrasive, eehn, can you? If you dont like what people say is an insult the corrwct way to address your opposition? Frankly i think you need to stop talking on this thread because from page 1 till you got in everything was ok. After you got in it has been upside down. Who cares about your truth if your teachings also come with abuse and insults, who cares?
I warned you people not to call me Igbo did I not I warned you people to stop insulting Yoruba ancestors did I not
Ogbẹni is it a lie that 'a man who doesnt know his father is an omo-ale'? You people dont know the gravity of what you are saying and yet to provide evidence to vindicate yourself you cannot
BabaRamota1980: Ahhhh, alaye, no do that. The guy has yanminri gene in him. This is normal for them to call their own biological father worse. Im telling you, to Yoruba its abomination to address elder this way but in Iboland where his blood come from its part of everyday life. Abeg you o...e yanda e.
Hey olaochi, olaochi, olaochi, how many times i call you? You think say everybody here na mate? As you dey talk to everybody with insult na so some people do take enfer market nak.ed, amd remained there for ever. Be careful o. This thing na ordinary discussion, why you dey call elders bastard and omo ale and all these foolish names? These are Yoruba they take offense, no be like your elders back for Ngwa. Do you hear me? No more insult o.
the Truth is always insult on those who are proponents of lies. If i say those who dont know their fathers are omo-ale..is it not true? Oya prove to me that you know your ancestors, if a man is so sure about something he should be able to provide a good reason for his assurance
And stop calling me Igbo, i do not identify as Igbo, having an Igbo grandparent(which you people had to go over all my previous posts to find out) is what is making you people have orgasm as if you are more Yoruba than an Oyinbo man who follows Yoruab traditions
This is Nathan Lugo, a white man(although he has some african ancestry) who is more Yoruba than you. .. so challenging my identity as a Yoruba is foolish...this is what pissed me off before i decided to be very blunt and tell you just what you are being...maybe you do not know you are Sabotaging yoruba identity or that is infact the aim
Iran di iran, omo ale! Ogun laa ba ti e je! Wa rin njo ebi n'pona! Alafia onije ti e! Arun a ba e gbe d'ojo ale! Ile a ba e ja! Omi a ba e ja! Afefe a ba e ja! Ina a gb'ogun ti e!
May these words spread far and wide and be with you in all pace and circumstance, Ase Edumare!
.
Ó bá ṣe Epè ẹ l'ede Lárúbáwá àwọn Olú ẹ Ẹrú lásán lásán tí ó lè jẹ nkan
Epè kò kín kan ẹni òtítọ́.
Instead of placing curses you should have answered my questions bloody saboteur and enemy of the Yoruba within
BabaRamota1980: People like him with claimed knowledge should be assisting his kins in Ngwaland to open threads and showcase Ibo history instead of jumping ln Yoruba thread. I saw his many attempts trying to link Yoruba with Ibo. They have no history so they use us to attain significance.
Im glad you and metaphysical refused to address anything Ibo in here. This is Yoruba.
Hey olaochi if you want to highlight what Oduyoye said about Ibo, open a thread biko so Ibo historians can join with you.
I am more Yoruba than all you Hebrew and Arab worshippers. Those who don't know their fathers are called Bastards
MetaPhysical: Let me start from bottom up for you....
One of the best social attributes of Yoruba is diversity. We must have diversity of thoughts and opinions and worldview, without being labeled ignoble names and identities. If we all agree that Yoruba is aborigene there would have been no stirring of the spirit into inquisition about our past and then we would remain static with no new discoveries and knowledge. Similarly if we all agree that Yoruba is migrant, there would be no drives to find out the alternative. You cannot keep rubbing scholarship in people's face but then talk like an unlettered person in your response to them, it kills your credibility. The first principle of interaction is respect and humility, regardless of what you know or think you know, assume the person you are talking to is a friend and not a foe. To win people over to your side, you must show compassion and understanding, otherwise you loose them. This is basic rule in human interaction. I find it very hard to reconcile people who come out proclaiming intellect but out of their mouth and spirit is spitefulness and arrogance, the two do not harmonize. I can get dirty with the tongue and very caustic but again, i cherish my Omoluabi and my personal ORI more than I value my opponent's. Are you aware that on this internet we cross paths with people with Ase? You dont know who is on other side, prevention is better than cure....always humble yourself and restrain, its the best medicine. In fact, it is what IFA teaches, humility and restraint!
On any language, SOUND is the phenomenal character of tongue and speech. If sound is not present language has no character, even though communication is still possible. The language we call Yoruba has a character that is overwhelmingly superior to the native and aboriginal tongues anywhere in its region. There is no need proving anything as you are quick to call for...but you should investigate it yourself so you can grow and be enlightened. Four or so years ago when I joined here and started talking about this topic of origin my opponents would counter my position that most of Yoruba words were borrowed from Huasa and Islam. I didnt know any better because I neither spoke Hausa or Arabic. So I took upon myself as a challenge to learn Hausa so I can have it as a tool to filter and speak authoritatively on what is borrowed from Hausa and what is not. Today, I can speak Hausa fluently. I can write it and read it. Personal challenge to grow and expand, in just four years I acquired a tool and overcome the barrier presented by my opponents.
I have root words that you have never heard before in Yoruba and I have concrete evidence of aspects of Arabia in connection with Yoruba that is indisputable. It is waste of time and resource bringing those here to discuss. This forum is gutter, I must protect the information from getting soiled. Everyone come out here and say Yoruba is not mentioned by Arab and they did not write about us. They have never denied Yoruba footprints in Arabia either. They don't need to write about us...they have records of our presence in that land. It is in their antiquities and rites of worship as well. If they allow research into their pre-Islamic past those records will speak, but they will not open that gate into the pre-dynastic Arabia.
I respect the beliefs you all hold on your side of the argument and I see it as diversity. I dont have need to abuse your person because you differ or refuse to accept what I present. Mind over emotions!
I expected you to answer my questions and not give a sermon that you do not follow yourself. so stop being hypocritical and pretentious.
If you are really interested in Yoruba history, that is if you are not just being an omo-ale who wants to sabotage yoruba identity, you would take time to study and gather evidence before jumping to conclusions and spreading your claims like a virus. Now you are left stranded, you cant even provide evidence neither can you admit when proven wrong because you have gone far in this. You just have to be prepared to unlearn all this rubbish you have learnt and relearn the proper way, because when you do you cannot be left looking like a fool and leave questions unanswered after making a claim - of course this applies only if you are not a Saboteur You can start by reading 'A History of the Yoruba People' by Banji Akintoye
Olu317: BabaRamota1980, come and see a disappointing Yoruba young man that act like them them from other region,who are always filled with hate when facts are glaring before them. In fact, he even said ‘Hamitic' isn't a word that was used by a well known linguist ,which was used to represent the classification of African language. Below was the exact word of ‘Joseph Greenberg' . I am not the kind that can laugh a lot. So, kindly come and help me inform him , that he has blundered as a bittered Yoruba man,with no knowledge of antiquity and history
This is what you get when you lack proper Education
Read the screenshot properly and ask those around you if you cant comprehend the underlined words
Olu317: Just look at how unlettered you are? So, Hamitic isnt used by linguist? Very disappointed at the poor knowledge you had acquired over 4 years on NL. What a waste! Funny enough, I am not even two years on NL and had knowledge of my history via the right source before being on NL . Just look at you and the choice of words that you use as if you and I are age mate? Anyway, don't ever quote me again. Else, I ask for your ban.Period. Go edit your unlettered ignorance of ‘hamitic' before I share your knowledge on NL. I just have compassion on you because you claim Yoruba.
Go to a University not NL. Anybody using the term 'hamitic' in the 21st century is a pseudo-proponent. calling me a waste while you are the one who takes anthropology lessons from Nairaland Oh geez! You are lost, your life must revolve around Nairaland
Please Provide evidence of your claims I am still waiting
you should be the one ban for breaking rule 8 of Nairaland by posting false information, your whole moniker is built on passing around false information...people reading your post need to beware
Olu317: As long as you wish, you can wait. It is practically impossible for you to engage without letting emotion control your state of mind, simply because you feel angered over information thrown at you . You agreed with non native and non speaker who were the people/researchers/linguists that grouped Africa into five language family; Hamitic, Semitic, Bantu,Sudanese and Bushman, but you condemn others who have more related words and cultural affinity to Yoruba as not true. Even to the extent of using a very derogatory word on me? Obviously, you are a young man.
This is a food for thought for you from a man who is one of the most respected linguist, Joseph Greenberg. This is what he had so say as regard classification of African language and all the people/ linguists that grouped such languages.
“ Africa, The Semito–Hamitic ( since the ultimate relations of the Semitic group to the Hamitic cannot be doubted ) and the Sudanese whose membership for the moment mist, be restricted to the West Sudanese and Bantu and which may some day be demonstrated to include all the other non Hamitic languages. The great desideratum of African linguistics remains more DESCRIPTIVE DATA. When one considers that of the HUNDREDS of LANGUAGES of Africa, a mere HANDFUL has received anything approaching a DESCRIPTIVE treatment by PRESENT DAY LINGUISTIC STANDARD, that there are still LANGUAGES of which we know hardly more than the NAME, it is evident that the careful reconstruction of the Parent Speech of each restricted group of languages and further comparison carried with rigor demanded in historical linguistic work,must, to a great extent, wait upon the further accumulation of ACCURATE DESCRIPTIVE MATERIAL. The hypothesis of widespread hybridization and morphological borrowing ,so often assumed by the DESPERATE CLASSIFERS ,while it cannot be ruled out a priori must be subjected to the TEST OF NORMAL METHOD OF historical linguistics based on adequate material. " His assertion meant most of the classifer's work were based on inconsistency,kangaroo method of gouping . . What a damning effect on Yoruba language and some others!
I wouldnt have posted this because it is not for your eyes only but reference.
An advice : Explore beyond your boundary and learn to be a good Omoluabi.
I stopped reading where you wrote "hamitic" No linguist or anthropologist would use the term "hamitic"
Provide evidence please or shut up and run along like the other two have
OlaoChi: This is a long list that will take time going through several dictionaries, and i dont wan to do it but I will if you challenge me by answering my own questions. stop ignoring them and shifting post. You have left them unaddressed for 3 days. Even BabaRamota1980 ran away, but you are still here with your hebrew obsession.
1. Go and Identify the non-Yoruba arts from the pictures i posted, since you claim yoruba art has nothing to do with african art.
2. Find ifa among the Hebrews
3. Evidence that Yoruba brought Afa to Igbos and Ewe, Fa to the Fon, Ifa to the Igala, Epha to the Urhobo and Iha to the Edo
So dont ask me any questions before answering these... I am not a fool you ask questions while ignoring mine
MetaPhysical: I bring you authorities on semitic and middle eastern languages who confirm the connection between that region and Yoruba, you dismissed them as unqualified. I bring you authorities on christianity and judaism who all share the view that Yoruba is from AfroAsia, you dismissed them as people influenced by foreign religion and requested for an authority on Ifa. I bring you Araba of Ife, you now dismiss it as works of fiction from John Wydham. You have done a bad job of representing the side you are on.
How would a person that could not answer question on Laba or sigidi begin to question the meaning of Aramfe? Did you not say somewhere that you are getting initiated into Isese? I do not believe you but even if it's true please do not go forward with the initiation. Protect your head and do not proceed with the initiation. I say this with seriousness!
Yes Oduyoye and Lucas are unqualified, tell me the Institution that endorsed them? Where did they Lecture? Why do Semitic Linguists not agree with Oduyoye, Why do Egyptlogists not agree with Lucas? You say Gottlob is fraud but all Linguist agree with him...till today Kwa language is still taught as a Language group in the University. No University teaches the works of Oduyoye or Lucas
You and Olu317 still have to resolve the issue of whether Yoruba origin is Arabic or Hebrew
these people are shameless liars sha. When did the Araba of Ife say Yoruba are Arab migrants? And Yes basically even though it was never given that the Araba said such a thing, nobody regards John Wydham as an historian, he was a fictional storyteller...even the Text says Aramfe is the Supreme being when we all know that is Olodumare Another lie, I answered the question on Laba and Shigidi... then I ask you how are Laba and Shigidi Arabic in origin
MetaPhysical: The word "written" in the scope of written history is overhyped here!
What you need is record. Oral history is a record, arts are records, music is a record, rituals are records, shrines are records, sound and characters of language are records, writing is a record. Oruko, Oriki, Orile, Ewi.....these are all records and none were written down pre-European access. So should we say Ajo bi Ewe is not an Ewi authority because he did not write or produce any scholarship work on Ewi? How does this sound to you?
You are attempting here to reduce Yoruba to just written records and ignore all other methods in which Yoruba antiquity has been preserved. The aborigines do not have such vast records of antiquity. You want to dumb down Yoruba and deny its migrant footprint. The migrant footprint is what makes Yoruba unique and different from rest.
...and on the use of foul language, please, I beg you...refrain from using that sort of language on me. You do not know who I am. Humble yourself, please, humble yourself when responding to me. If you are in a state of emotional heat....stand back and compose yourself before responding to me. I will not give another warning.
What you are saying here about records is what i have said since but you never did comprehend or you just choose to act like I didnt say it. Yoruba has no written history so there is only traditional sources(Language,Art, Music, Festivals, Cult/Family Rituals, Orally passed information within Families etc) and in the world of academics any work must have a source not guess work and assumptions, therefore Traditionalists must be involved and not ignored or spoken for. I have said that twice. What business have Pastors with Sango ritual? or Ifa divination? or Shigidi? You keep mentioning Pastors and non-initiates who themselves didnt even study the topic they are talking about. Olumide Lucas wrote on Egyptian influence on Yoruba traditional religion when he was not a traditionalist and had no idea of Isese. Where are the sources? Just because i say mention scholars, doesnt mean mention a person who has published a book... Scholars are people who study, research, draw theory, discuss, take a position and open themselves up for scrutiny. Scholars are University trained and know the tenets of their discipline and follow it, Scholars are endorsed by Institutions and often are Lecturers themselves.
Lucas and Oduyoye do not stick to their discipline, in fact what did Olumide Lucas study at the University? His credentials are unknown, because all the poeple who mention him call him an Egyptologist but he had no thorough knowledge of Egyptology
I have never attempted to reduce yoruba to written records and that is very clear. You still have not provided any evidence
If Yoruba art is so different you can take up Olu317's assignment and identify which of those pictures I posted are non-yoruba..if you want I will post them again. You need to provide evidence in form of 1. what oral history records Yoruba being Semitic migrants 2. Enough Linguistic similarity between Yoruba and Semitic languages - at least 20% Lexical similarity, Similarity in Sentence structure, Verb Conjugation, Noun forms etc 3. Similarities between Yoruba and Arabic Art/Music for you , then Olu317 will provide Hebrew Art/Music 4. Similarities between Yoruba traditional religion and that of Arabs and Hebrews
Mr. man let me tell you something frankly, any person who doesnt know his father is a bastard. If you are yoruba as much as you like to claim (you even say i am not yoruba because I dont share your delusions...which piss me off ) you would know the importance of one's ancestors and how much not just about clan/family affiliation but blood descent is important. But its not your fault..you cant possibly feel true yoruba pride...its the effect of foreign religion on you. It is not new for Yoruba identity to be attacked by people of its own.
Culture › Re: The Arab Origin Of The Yorubas by OlaoChi: 10:51am On Jul 06, 2018
The person was obviously making a case for the indigenous nature of yoruba culture not every culture in the world
I warned you people to stop insulting Yoruba ancestors did I not 
