₦airaland Forum

MetaPhysical:
Please stop rambling just to sound intelligent.

You continue to say Dr. Oduyoye's declarations cannot carry weight against Gottliob Krause's because the former is not a linguist nor historian and moreover not an expert on Yoruba language.

Gottliob did not even go to a university. The only language he spoke was German and his works were published in that language.

What academic qualification did Gottliob posess to qualify as a linguist and expert on Yoruba?

He used interpreters to interact with the natives and approximated what they said into German. His publications were then translated into English, French and so on. Imagine the errors and inaccuracies between source and finished product called Niger-Congo family.

Gottlob didnt create the Niger-congo language group. He created the Kwa branch of languages within the larger Niger-congo group. Yoruba is not a Kwa language. It is a Volta-Niger language

Unlike Oduyoye, he actually made field research. Since 1886 that he published his last work no linguist has found reason to believe he was wrong.. The Kwa language group he created is still valid this very second as you read this.. Over hundred years that language group as existed in Linguistics. Not even Oduyoye can challange that

Note: I am not endorsing Gottlob directly, I am not a linguist but all Linguist endorse him, so who are you?

Olu317:
Feel bittered? Obviously, you are the unrealistic one here. I choose to point to six ,which are different from my screenshots and you are here making mockery of yourself . I know you are Ibo,right? Or ibo Yoruba? Guess what if you are interested, get copy of Olumide lucas's work that did study on language affinity with Ancient Egypt. Again, you have nothing to proof wrong because, this is bigger than you. Further more, your domestic knowledge need stay domestically because you don't even have knowledge about African history talkless of Semitic. You kept asking the same questions over and over again! What a being? Have you no knowledge of ancient power, language spoken and strength of Egypt pharaoh's dominance through many places I had mentioned in my previous posts. The google is your friend and if you have no knowledge that original Hebrew developed from Egyptian language and it died permanently in the middle East after the conquest of Juda, then, I AM SORRY FOR YOU. Go read the posts i sent to Hati13, on the strength of ancient Ethiopian pharaohs that ruled Egypt And the current spoken Hebrew/Israel's language was developed around 19th century . The biggest clown you are!
Lastly, you must bring out same lexicons shared with Yoruba's words from these neigbour of yorubas because I will be posting more than fifty (50 words), since you claim Yoruba are within same family language grouping with the people you mentioned. Kindly give it some try

Actually this not supposed to be about what ethnicity anybody is of, so that I have an igbo grandparent is no issue(you had to go through my post since 2014 ). I am Yoruba...next thing you will say I am Igbo so i cant talk on yoruba issues but i am the one who is actually involved in Isese(Yoruba traditions) while you lot are worshipping foreign gods and trying to force yoruba on where your gods come from

Stop talking about Egypt, face Hebrews... I saw your screenshot but since its not Hebrews I left it unaddressed. Stop shifting post, stick to Hebrews.

Egyptian language is not even Semitic

MetaPhysical:
Hopefully the Araba is qualified enough on your scale to be taken seriously.

Listen to the Araba here.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/afr/ife/index.htm

This was written by John Wyndham. a fictional writer.
In this text Aramfe is described as the supreme being, when Olodumare is the supreme being in Yoruba traditions. Aramfe or Oramfe is Ife's version of Sango.
Also nothing in this text shows us how Yoruba are Arabs

You and olu are getting desperate that you are bringing issues that dont even have anything to do with your claims

MetaPhysical:
This makes sense. I was wondering to myself the reasoning behind his disregard for the Yoruba sound and the works of great scholars like Lucas, Oduyoye on the root words and connections in cultural beliefs. He seems to treat Yoruba from perspective of classrooms and curriculums and is because he lacks phenomenal experience of what Yoruba is. His knowledge of it is limited to written works. I even doubt he has any Yoruba in him. I caught an Ibo on a thread once who had done vast studies in Yoruba and acted similarly. He was outed by an error in his post, otherwise we mistook him for Yoruba.

Thanks bro.
Oodua a Gbe wa!

lmao. Because I am proudly African i must not be Yoruba, you people just want to exclude Yoruba from Africa by all means. Sorry to burst your bubble I am more Yoruba than a bastard slave like you who hates his Yoruba origins and wants to identify with Arabs. I am Yoruba...soryy And I have more experience with yoruba than you will ever have. You who is nothing but a bastard denying his ancestors

Lucas is not even a proper Egyptologist(his knowledge of Egyptian language has been exposed as flawed), neither was he a Yoruba historian.. please mention Scholars on Yoruba field not people of Yoruba descent who wrote books when at a time when not many people wrote books on Yoruba people...both Oduyoye and Lucas didnt study Yoruba issues, they studied foreign issues ie. Theology, Semitic linguistics, Egyptology and neither had a traditional background.

I mentioned Banji Akintoye... the leading Yoruba historian known all over the world, a University professor and authority on Yoruba history

Yes, I treat Yoruba based on academic disciplines not hearsay. A regard scholars, who show evidence and use traditional sources.

Again I will tell you this.. Yoruba lack written history, all we have is tradition ie. language, festivals, orally passed information from generation to generation within certain families, ritual cult activities(within the Ile-orisa) etc and then there is modern sciences of Archaeology and genetics

Anybody you mention who doesnt use traditional sources bt simply goes straight to stating is probably guessing and inventing, which you fall into.

Olu317:
You see, scholarly research have nothing to do with this Yoruba—Ibo 99.9% percentage genetic study. Read through the analysis and you will be surprise it is not true. Do you know that Yoruba's DNA is among the most used in identifying people's blood traces? One professor David Reich was the man that did serious study on Yoruba genome . You can look the man up and check his profile. Again , If you want to really know, more kindly subscribe for it and you will get the softcopy of his study on yoruba. Again, finding was made in 2016, by ARUN DURVASULA and SRIRAM SANKARARAM, both are researchers at the University of California, Los Angeles, that Homo heidelbergensis exised thousands of years ago and could be the specie that contributed the unknown eight ( 8 ) % percentage in YORUBA genome . The statistical technique that was applied to the DNA of 50 modern day Yoruba who had their genetic information sequenced as part of the 1,000 Genomes Project.
The established information stated that roughly eight per cent of their DNA comes from a yet unknown 'ghost' species. And Modern-day pygmies, who may have interbred with the YORUBA people have also been eliminated from the process, as their DNA has been sequenced and it is NOT A MATCH. THIS MEAN YORUBA DONT HAVE PYGMIES GENES , KINDLY LOOK UP THE BANTOID GROUP AND SEE THE DIFFERENCE( Bantoid people do had pygmies in their genes ) . You see, I am not here to inform anyone wrongly but to inform properly about the reality of what the well funded western researchers had done to affirm who the ancient people were and that they acknowledge the migration of the yorubas from different place before arrival to the present day Southwest Nigeria and environment.

I humbly await those funny lads to counter me,rather than opinions. Don't let them deceive you . And after they must have answered that Yoruba are same with Bantoid ,then I will give you a site/link to see the set of Yoruba that claimed Arabs directly through migration from Songhai—Mali.

Cheers.

What part of David Reich's publications say Yoruba are descended from Semitic people? Please post it here. dont just use his name and say go and check his profile without saying what he said

And what has homoheidelbergensis got to do with Semitic people? [See picture below]

Guy you are a confused human being, stop going into irrelevant topics... Stick to Hebrew connection. Talking about Homoheidelbergensis that is an African Hominid as if that helps your Hebrew claim.

Furthermore 93% of the Yoruba genome is traceable to Africa, the remaining unknown 7%...not 8% is still assumed by Geneticist to be typically found in Africa
So tell us how this 'Ghost' are related to Semitic people and compare 7% to 93%
You have done nothing but give wrong information which i have kept pointing out

You have not successfully defended any of your submissions

As to you claiming Yoruba and Igbo are not genetically similar here is an article for you

https://newsrescue.com/yoruba-are-99-adangbe-study/
Genetic research finds that there is little genetic difference between most African ethnic groups and less so when they are closer together. A study published in the Bio Medical Center found there was little evidence for significant population substructure in the four major West African ethnic groups, the Yoruba and Igbo of Nigeria and Akan and Gaa-Adangbe of Ghana.

The findings, according to the team, “although not entirely surprising given the geographical proximity of these groups, provide important insights into the genetic relationships between the ethnic groups studied and confirm previous results that showed close genetic relationship between most studied West African groups.”

The study was conducted by Adebowale Adeyemo, Guanjie Chen2, Yuanxiu Chen and Charles Rotimi of the University of Ibadan, National Human Genome Center and Howard university. Analysis of Molecular Variance, AMOVA was used.

Adebowale et al made the shocking discovery that whereas there was 99.9% within-population variance, the between-population variance was less than 0.1%. This means that Yorubas, Igbos, Gaa and Akan are 99.9% similar as populations, while within each of the groups there are differences/variations between individuals as high as 99%, i.e. One Igbo may be 99% variant to another Igbo, or one Yoruba to another Yoruba.

Olu317:
Hatie ,
You arent a speaker of Yoruba language , and failed to see from different researchers of well funded Western researchers that made exploration possible,via treasure hunting , expedition etc which brought forth the study of human history. We dont live in the stone age anymore and work have not been stopped on excavation of the past history of great kingdoms/Empire. So I want you to call the attention of the moniker like OlaoChi etc ,who claimed that they are knowledgeable about Yoruba language's history and the affinity with many tribes/ethnicity that lived alongside Yorubas . Kindly draw their attention to it. because I want them to prove these words that are Yoruba and such neighbours,similar meaning etymologically . I am willing to give them all 48 hours to proof me wrong that Yoruba shared same language/ dialects with all, except the one I had mentioned in the past
Below are some daily applicable Yoruba words and its closely related English meaning:

Àba /Ba/Uba/Aba=father
Aiyè=world
Àki/Àkin=brave
Akó=male
Abó=female
Àalá=dream
Àalà=white
Âala=demication
Âarin= middle (in between)
Àará=thunder
Arà=eonder
Àadà=we create
Âajó=travel
Àajè=spirit wealth
Ajé=witch
Adié= Fowl/hen
Adié-irànà= sacrificial fowl
Alaiyè=living one/Alive
Aanu=mercy
Alujonú= spirit
Àlalé=spiritual owner of the land
Adè=crown
Aasalè =late evening evening/ late at night
Ajèji= stranger
Alèejo=visitor
Atíjó,= ancient
Bàalé=husband
Bàalè=duke
Baba=ancestor ( original meaning) but corrupted to Yoruba's city language of ‘father'
Éebi=relative/relation
Èejí=rain
Éerín=laugh
Èri=testify
Ésún=allege some one of a crime
Béeru= fear/Afraid
Éyì= this one
Èyikèyi=any–one
Énì= mat
Éní= anybody
Énikéni=anyone
Étan= deceive
Éebo= sacrifice
Ípata= notorious
Jigi=mirror
Òdé=hunter
Oorún=heaven
Éeni=person/one(human) and not numerical
Oojúmó= break of dawn
Oojó= daily
Òjó= day
Owuró/Àaró=morning
Osàn= noon time
Irolé/urolé= evening
Ogún= warrior/man of valour
Èshù= messenger of Èledumare that is in care to prevent good from happening and allow good to happen
Jùbá= pay homage
Jagún= to war
Óbé = soup
Ofà=arrow
Óokó=cano
Okè= up/mountain
Orà/ óràn =to bright
Orá= decay
Rò=stand
Ràará=dwarf
Rà=buy
Irà= swamp
Èwè=leaf
Îgi=tree
Iji= hurricane
Ijo= dance
Okunrin=man
Obinrin=woman
Olè=lazy
Olé=thief
Òlòoshà= robber
Ki=salute
Ràadàradà=nonsense
Éla=potent word of God(Èledumare) for creation/ The first word spoken by God, which mean ‘to see through darkness/ void ( tcome to existence/being )
Èyin= egg
Èeyinjù/Èeyinojù=eyeball
Éefùn= potash
Èerupé/Èepé=sand
Kû=die
Lèkè=victory over .......
Ooré= friend
Oorè= helper
Èdà= created human being
Dà=create
Èebú=abuse
Éléda=creator
Élédam(i)=my creator
Éeyé=celebrate
Éiyé=bird
Ébóorà = spirit being
Dè=arrive
Iró=lie
Mó=build
Mò=know
Ibú=ocean
Onà=path/road
Irukéré= in form of tassel on the ear of corn, the cow-tail carried about by the priests or kings.
Ijooyè=chief
Oba=king
Omo'ba=prince/princess
Làamlóoyé/làamilóoyé= explain to me
Òoyè= chieftancty title
Sé=Deny
Sèelè= happen
Gbó=hear
Gbò=bark
Ògbó=old
Òrò=wealth
Òró=word
Ri=see
Wi=speak
Yó=rejoice

Cheers

This is a long list that will take time going through several dictionaries, and i dont wan to do it but I will if you challenge me by answering my own questions. stop ignoring them and shifting post. You have left them unaddressed for 3 days. Even BabaRamota1980 ran away, but you are still here with your hebrew obsession.

1. Go and Identify the non-Yoruba arts from the pictures i posted, since you claim yoruba art has nothing to do with african art.

2. Find ifa among the Hebrews

3. Evidence that Yoruba brought Afa to Igbos and Ewe, Fa to the Fon, Ifa to the Igala, Epha to the Urhobo and Iha to the Edo

So dont ask me any questions before answering these... I am not a fool you ask questions while ignoring mine

MetaPhysical:
You believe Dr Oduyoye that studied and speaks European languages, AfroAsiatic languages, Nigerian languages, is less qualified than the German that originated the Niger-Congo language group and who is never equipped in any of the African tongues he claimed authority on?

Put that in your mouth and taste it, what does the flavor taste like?

Having considerable acquaintance with many languages, Oduyoye's vantage point enabled him to ask questions that European and Anglo Bible scholars were not asking. He also questions many of the long-accepted interpretations of Jewish scholars.


You put forward a challenge on Niger-Congo and an authority in language. Now that one is presented, you shift goal and say he is not historian.

You claimed Yoruba were influenced by Muslims and Islamic contents, I bring you authorities in Christianity who share their views. Now you say they are not Ifa worshippers.


My brother, I have been on this topic a looooooong time. I have not shared with you a quarter of the mysteries I have acquired and archived on this topic. Some I dont even want to share because I can publish them and make money or syndicate them for gainful income. I am not one of those that chase proofs. I share and exchange knowledge.


Do you know what the Yoruba word Sigidi is? Describe what it is if you know.

Oduyoye is not a yoruba historian or African linguist. He was known as a Semitic linguist and Theologian. If you cant get that then you have a problem recognizing what credibility and qualifications are

He, in his books and sermons at church, drew on Semitic connection to Nigerian languages, he mentioned Egbira, Nupe, Yoruba, Igbo, Hausa and Yoruba which already show how much of a patch-work person he was, not drawing on any concrete evidence or singling out Yoruba...so why are you singling out Yoruba if Oduyoye claimed all of Nigeria has Semitic connection? It is obvious he was like any african christian obsessed with Hebrews and was stiring up Hebrew sentiments. Not to mention that he never challenged Yoruba's status as a Niger-congo language, he only attempted to demonstrate an influence of Semitic languages on Nigerian languages. Oduyoye doesnt even agree with you
I happen to love the Japanese culture, I can start a 'Yoruba are of Japanese origin' trend, publish books and make claims and fools will buy that.. I hope you know there are people online who have started a 'Igbo-Japanese connection theory' soon I will start Yoruba own so of course you can publish books but the contents of the book, your qualification, your field research(not online copy and paste), your sources, your evidence is what is important not more claims written in a fancy book. Do you see your book being a reference by University professors? Do you see yourself holding a lecture at the university after publishing your book?

Africa is really shitty because of people who refuse to embrace their identity, those who have given in to the socialdarwinist and racist ideas of Europeans and Semitic people about the black man. these people hate you for goodness sake, why love them so much that you want to be them?

Ok good, since you dont want to publish books please share your knowledge here dont be shy

Lmao why are you asking me about Shigidi? if there is anything about Shigidi that points to Arabs just say it.
There is only so much an uninitiate like you and I can know about Shigidi, but the basic fact is Shigidi is a protective orisa that guards boundaries and property . Would be nice to see how this is an Arabic deity

Oh and Why is it that You are saying Yoruba are Arabic and Olu is saying Hebrew? Why the confusion?

MetaPhysical:
Top 5 Christian proponents of Yoruba root from AfroAsia (Note there are Deacons amongst them). These people are looking at the issue from a Christian and scientific viewpoint. Not a single one is Muslim!

1 - Josiah Oni (Oral Historian)
2 - Venerable Lagunju (Timi of Ede & Oral Historian)
3 - Samuel Johnson (His original manuscript of 1899 was suppressed, taken out of circulation & substituted with a published draft in 1922)
4 - Venerable Archdeacon J. Olumide Lucas (Former Pastor of St. Paul’s Church, Breadfruit in Lagos, Nigeria)
5 - Dr Modupe Oduyoye (Polyglot, Deacon, Linguist, mentored by Arch. J. Olumide Lucas)



So the point that Islamic input shaped thoughts and opinion on Yoruba root in AfroAsia is wicked and untruthful. Unless we want to say the above are zombies who lack independent thought and were thus under influence of Muslim clerics. If the latter were true, those Muslim clerics deserve award for successfully engineering and molding the Christians into accepting AfroAsia as their root. The truth is the acceptance and advocacy for AfroAsia is neither shaped by Christianity or Islam but by arts, spirituality and culture, all of which is the backbone of Yoruba identity.

Same Josiah Òní that Samuel Johnson mentioned? If so, how is that a noteworthy mention?
You cannot mention Ifá priests or Olorisas it is a Christian clergy who Samuel Johnson (another Christian clergy) mentions that you call?

It is shaped by Christianity and Islam. Only Christians and Muslims claim they came from the Middle East.. And it's not peculiar to Yoruba.. There are more igbos who claim to be Hebrew than there are Yorubas
Some Ga and Èwe people claim to be from Hebrews. Some Fulani claim to be from Arabs... It's all over sub Saharan Africa... Pure black Africans denying their origins and claiming where their religion comes from... At this point it doesn't matter if some Christians claim Arab origin... Muslims first invented that and the likes of Samuel Johnson and other Christian early writers held on to it since it is much closer to their own masters and far from traditional "savage" black Africa.
The mind of the typical African Christian is conditioned to belive Africa is shitty and everything good only comes from outside Africa... You can see that with olu as he talked as if Yoruba are the only civilization in Africa.. He even said Yoruba is so unique and of a greater civilization above all other africans therefore Yoruba cannot be africans... This is ethnic bigotry in conflict with distorted ideas he has had all his life as a Christian made to view the Hebrews as some unique people above all other people... So therefore Yorubas can only be Hebrew... He can't think of anything better than being Hebrew
Foreign religions are a damage to people. Makes a free born man act less than a slave


So mention scholars.. Actual scholars who studied and explored the "idolatry" of Yoruba. Actual scholars who don't ignore Awos(traditionalists) and rather collect information from them.. Or are Awo themselves. Scholars who studied the subject they are talking on thoroughly. We will know actual scholars by their biography

Always have that in your head... Yorùbá has no written history only traditional sources are available so pastors who are looking to eradicate traditional ways are not your go to guys

Olu317:
Well, I have posted and screenshot related and shared words,so why feel bittered about just the six I gave,which aren't the only constant words shared between Yoruba and Afro–Asia / Semitic? I only made more reference to words that are daily used within Yoruba people ,which are present in Semitic-Afro Asia as well .Proof me wrong that those words are loaned? But you can't but uses opinion, which is thrash! . And I am sure anyone with interest in them can download the PDF on my previous post on some shared word between ancient Egypt and Yorubas. If you are so sure,give an account of that counter the research I posted, instead of complaining?

Feel bitter? . I'm having fun with you

6 words out of thousands of words that exist in both languages and you expect a sane human being to believe Yoruba is Semitic? What about sentence structure? Tonality? Semitic languages aren't tonal and use a different structure to set up sentences
All words in Afro-asiatic languages have plural forms but most words in Niger Congo do not.. Plural forms are not a feature of Yoruba language or any of its immediate sister languages.. Yes sister languages ie. Igbó, Edo, Fon.. Neither is gender forms of nouns..
Yoruba Language for instance is almost without gender.. Heck! There's no word for brother and sister.. It's just senior sibling(ẹ̀gbọ́n) or junior sibling (àbúrò)

I can't think of one single plural Form of a word in Yoruba language... The language only has a plural definite article = àwọn which is added to signify plural in certain cases that context permit


So please prove how Yoruba is Semitic.. I'm begging



See im extremely intelligent its not everyone that is a fool on Nairaland that you think you can always get to say nonsense and remain unquestioned


I don't think any of the words are loaned but you overstretched the connection and lied about some of their meanings like "ilé oosa" that doesn't mean land of my ancestors but "house of a deity" simply "temple" *
And how do you get "Ilé Oosa" from "Ursalem"

I already showed you that anybody can claim Yoruba connection to any language.. You gave 6 middle eastern words... From Hebrew to Arabic to Akkadian... 3 languages. I have you 6 words one language
You're supposed to concentrate on hebrew since the Hebrews are your real target

And why talk about Egyptian language now? Ancient Egyptian language is not Semitic. You are really confused, you keep shifting the post.. Stick to Hebrews

MetaPhysical:
I don't know any of the scholars in your treasure that can beat Modupe Oduyoye. Have you ever heard of him?

Good you finally name someone

Modupe Oduyoye is not in the same league as Banji Akintoye, Omotoso Eluyemi or Oluwole Oyetade. What relevance are his books to Yoruba? Or what knowledge did he possess in Yoruba history?
What accolades did he receive? What university department did he lecture? He only lectured in the church where his lecture could not be scrutinized.
He himself never claimed to be a yoruba historian and he talked about all of Nigeria having Semitic connection never specific on Yoruba alone. So why are you drawing on Yoruba alone
Neither did he claim Yoruba to be afro-asiatic or any less Niger - Congo than Igbo. He rather wanted to give the impression that Niger Congo languages have linguistic connection to Afro-asiatic (Semitic in this case)

You didn't get all this things you claim from Oduyoye

Besides he is known by the few people who know him at all as a pastor who studied exclusively Semitic linguistics and theology. He had no knowledge of Iṣẹṣe or of Yoruba history.

His entire knowledge is based on Hebrew and Arabic language and religions but he displayed lack of knowledge in the Yoruba aspects

That you should know well because he never claimed to have collected any oral history or to have performed any field research

Olu317:
As a native speaker of Yoruba language,with good knowledge of the language,who understood the fact that some words are shared words with Yoruba's will attest to such words.

You are not the only native yoruba speaker stop misleading people here with falsehood.

In the beginning, there were no record that Yoruba became related to these other groups genealogically, except the places Yoruba descendants infiltrate such environment, then guess what? Such Yoruba descendants kept pointing to their direction, where they came from so as to distinguished themselves from their immediate neighbours. This is a pointer to acknowledge the ancient heritage and the method of recounting their ancestral link to their ethnicity. Whereever they are ,their footprint is recorded intensely. This is how the ancient Yoruba kept record of their ancestral linkage. Is it not an amazement for Yoruba to be so proud of where they came from and kept such for thousands of years even when some part of the history had become forgotten ?

And yet Yoruba did not keep any traditional record of coming from the middle east? The Olukumi you are referring to didnt forget where they came from, some clans among the Ga people of Accra didnt forget where they came from, the Akus of Sierra Leone didnt forget where they came all that is true but why bring this up as if it helps your argument? Or are you trying to say Yoruba never forget where they came from but we forget we came from the Middle East?

Don't be fooled about some biased scholars here ,who chose not to acknowledged shared words with Semitic but claimed it to be transferred through religious link,which is baseless. I am a Yoruba man and have done research on these words.
Let me once again highlight six different one that their etymology of ancient word of Yorubas, dont exist with others in west Africa , because IFA corpus identified them. Namely

1. Ògún(man) was said to be a ruthless warrior/man of valour.

2. Ilé Oosa mi/Ulé Oosa mi/ U/IléOrisa mi,simply mean, the
land of my ancestors (Where I pray/worship my ancestors/gods).

3. Éla -ro wa is the word of Éledumarè's force of creation.

4. Aanu is mercy in Yoruba language.

5. È/éyé is bird in Yoruba language.

6. Alèjo mean Stranger/ visitor

And these words/ name above have closely related meaning with AfroAsia–Semitic language.

1. Etymology of ‘Og’ which makes sense of his association with the warriors of the Rephaim is, as Chaim Rabin suggested, something similar to the South Semitic ǵwg , meaning ‘man’ or ‘man of valour’

2.. "Ursalim" ( the city of the god) is most likely a compound of two words in Western Semitic (a prehistoric language that would later birth Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic, Ethiopic and more): the verb yaru (“to establish”) and the name Shalim (or Salem), the Canaanite god of dusk.

3. Eli mean God is semitic/Hebrew language

4.Hannon/Hannah means merciful in modern Hebrew

5. Aya/Aiah means bird.

6. Haj/Hajj means visitor

These words were eternal with Yoruba people and not borrowed. And you can't find such word elsewhere except Yoruba's habitations.Even the domesticated loan words are noted easily because ancient Yoruba words are used for conjuring, incantation etc

Good now finally you are making progress, you are now bringing linguistic samples to examine your claim
Just to point out -
Ogu is found among the Fon and Ewe people and worshipped as the Loa of metal workings just as the Yoruba do Ogun. The Igala have Ogun.

Ile Oosa means house of Oosa/Orisa..2 words. to put simply a 'temple'


Now whats to say these 6 words are not rare coincidence that happen between any two unrelated languages of the world because as every normal person knows, because two words spell alike, or sound alike doesnt always mean a connection, what about the etymology and thought behind the word? Well here are 6 similar words between Yoruba and Japanese

Yoruba Japanese.
Ogun Shogun. Both relating to Military
Ese Asi. Leg
oko Otto. Husband
Omi Mizu water
Ado(a city) Edo(a city)
Osukpa Otsuki. Moon




6 words doesnt cut it Olu, that is less than 0.5% lexical similarity... 6 words that we do not have clarity on Etymology

Study more till you can find at least half of the yoruba lexicon to be of Semitic languages

Do you even know the ancient Dark skin Nubians/Ethiopian had a different feature,as compared to Yoruba's?

Do you know there is reburial in yoruba tradition of the dead from the abode that such was buried to another if need arose ? You can find it in Hebrew tradition

Do you the sculptural heads of royal members/ kings of Yoruba that were dug out don't look like a proper Dark skin of ancient Nubians/ Ethiopians?

Do you know that after a woman must stay indoor for 40 days after she gave birth in ancient Yoruba tradition? You can find it in law of moses

In fact, the most respected colour in Yoruba's cosmetology is white because it denote ‘purity' and always use in burying of the dead nd cleansing etc.

Even when it appears in African religious context, the attachment of importance is different from that of Yoruba's.

Investigate the semitic–Hebrew group and see what the colour white symbolise and attachment to it

Reburial tradition or transferring dead bodies is present all over the world, Africa especially. This is not peculiar to Hebrews and Yorubas. In fact it was rare among hebrews, if ever done at all.

White denotes purity in all cultures.. site something peculiar. Seclusion after childbirth is actually 41 days in yoruba traditions. And many cultures have that too. medically it takes 6 weeks for a mother to recover which is around 42 days


Oh and answer my previous questions, don't leave them hanging... if you believe yoruba are hebrews so much you should be able to answer them
1. identify the yoruba art from the pictures i post
2. where is Ifa among the hebrews
3. where is evidence that Igbo, Fon, Ewe, Igala etc all Niger-congo language speakers got their versions of Ifa from Yoruba

Olu317:
And for those comparing IFA corpus, to AFA's knowledge of Eastern region, is/are a bunch of joker(s) because the tenets of Yoruba's IFA aren't the same as Ibo's AFA. Some scholars that practice and vast in Yoruba's IFA corpus made it possible for united nation to embrace it and it became a worldwide heritage. And this IFA knowledge litters over the Internet and if interested,there is even a bold practioner on NL. So go help yourself and see the difference between the two. Yoruba brought IFA with them, which simply mean,anyone ,group, outside Yoruba's enclave who weren't a priestly Yoruba lineage or apprentice of such had the knowledge through Yoruba people.

Of course since Yoruba is not Igbo, the tenets of their traditions cannot be the same, after about 3000 years of separation you dont expect Afa to be exactly like Ifa , there are however similarities which i would gladly point out if you can find Ifa among the Hebrews or Arabs


The bolded statement requires evidence please. And also, i find it contradictory to your first statement... if Afa is nothing like Ifa, why then say Afa was gotten from Yorubas

MetaPhysical:
To Olaochi and Hati,

The discussion on Yoruba origin, its language, its relationship to Arab or Jew or Egyptian, is far older than any of us. None of us was there and we can only rely on submissions made using historical tractions via arts, oral records and as well new and modern tools for approximating events.

Precisely because none of us were there is why you need to provide evidence. you cannot make historical claims based on your imaginary and religious fantasies, which also challenge established propositions based on facts. You need actual evidence which you can only get if you have studied or explored the subject matter thoroughly

To be Honest, I dont see how you can even acquire evidence that Yoruba is not a Niger-congo language, when there is evidence that it is.
But if you cherish your beliefs so much you can try, take a course in African linguistics and publish your findings as an academic work in your capacity as a Scholar. You would be contributing immensely to the World's wealth of Knowledge

There are two camps here on this issue, the side that supports Yoruba is aborigene and the other which claims Yoruba is migrant. The migration camp is where I belong, and I know it's where Olu belongs, Babaramota is a recent convert to this. None of us doubt or deny that people were living on this land before the migrants. In fact we acknowledge that there are two civilizations merged into one and now known as YORUBA. Yoruba is an identity for the migrants, whereas Ugbo is an identity for the aborigenes that pre-existed on the land before Yoruba arrival. There were also contention in the past as to the nativity of the migrants and the question of whether they were origins of Ile-Ife, from where they initially migrated out, and then returned home at a later time in human memory....or if they were origins of AfroAsia and settled a unknown geolocation now known as Yorubaland.

The fact that you mention Olu and 'new convert' Babaramota and not some University professors or Renowned Historians means that you know very well that you are a cult-like group of individuals in the minority without scholastic or expert backing, similar to black hebrew israelites in the US or Nation of Islam or even (without terrorism) the KKK.

A proper historian would provide evidence, because like you said we were not there so the issue of just sitting somewhere and inventing things is non-academic and a threat to Yoruba history, especially due to the lack of written records and necessity to rely on traditional sources eg. language, festivals, orally passed information, Art etc

"Yoruba is an Identity for migrants" how interesting.
I thought 'yoruba' is an identity for all the people of west africa who speak dialects of the Yoruba language, the term 'yoruba' originally referring exclusively to the Oyo Empire before expanding as an Ethnic nomenclature for all native Yoruba speakers.

Was I wrong

Old Testament says origin of man was Eden and after expulsion they moved East. Historians placed this East in Nineveh. How could the Yoruba ancestors have known of a place called Nineveh and claim it as their homeland? Impossible! But they claimed a place know as IleIfe as not only their homeland, but as the origin of mankind. There is congruence in oral and Biblical accounts, as well in the two holy lands. Now, consider the distance apart of the two places, in an age when there were no phones, television, radio, maps....but yet they successfully nailed the origin and genesis accounts in the Bible.

First of all, the genesis account of the bible is not actual history, it is called Christian mythology, which is an incomplete version of the wider Jewish mythology, which itself is a copy of the various myths of Mesopotamia.
Why would you bring this up when talking about history?

Now of course not all myths are false but in this case the myth that Man originated somewhere along the Euphrates river in Asia is false as man originated in Africa

And I fail to see how Ile-ife has anything to do with Nineveh or how yoruba traditions of origin fit into biblical accounts?. If Yorubas claim Ife as their homeland and origin of mankind doesn't that all debunk your claim that 'Yoruba' are migrants?

In any case, the issue of language classification is a wash. The grouping is made on assumptions, it is an approximation based on information available to the person that mapped the languages in the 1800s. If Hausa lived in the forest belt it would also have been classified as a Niger/Congo. Go and look in Hausa language (minus the donations from Arabic) and Igbo language, there are just as many similarities as you will find between Igbo and Yoruba. Did the language mapper not know this? We are at a time when almost every citizen of a nation have a degree as basic qualification, yet there will be multitudes without a single shred of enlightenement in their spirit. So let's caution ourselves about waving the banner of scholarship everytime there is discussion on mundane issues that posession of scholarship will not make a dint of difference to advance. If Igbo language was located in the North it would have been classified as a Nilotic. I agree with baba, the mappers had no knowledge of the tongues they were indexing beyond the need to help their missionary interests and ease the work of teaching religion.

How nice, well I already gave examples of Languages which are not grouped into the same category as other surrounding languages above which you read and like I said when you become a Linguist you can argue this out with Linguists all over the world. Go get that education and expertise and contribute to Social Science. Any sane person will stick to learned publications not allegations without actually studying the languages yourself

Moneywomen17:
yoruba is classified as a Niger-Congo language related to other Niger-Congo language like igala as far as am concerned who is saying otherwise

My point exactly

davidnazee:
If Yoruba is a Niger-Congo language how come you claim to come from Sudan? People of Sudan are not grouped under the Niger-Congo language speaking people.
Confused Yorubas again!!

Any Yoruba claiming to come from Sudan is the author of the confusion. Sane Yorubas will never claim such

Moneywomen17:
most of this dumb ass do not know that 14th century is 1300 he probably assumed 14th century means 1400 lol

People who argue against facts are buffoons who can't know basic things

Same way some buffoons will argue against Yoruba being a Niger-Congo language
You people Nigeria need help

gregyboy:
Which fact do you have it was thought by ife....

Both ìfẹ́ and bíni traditions say so.

I don't know how far you are with bini traditions outside this modern politics bini elders are playing but in Colonial and pre colonial times bini said wonderful things about Ifè.. The records are there

The bronze casting families in Bini are descendants of Iguegha, an Ife man. I didn't make it up

GodSon34:
Lol! You lot are funny abeg!
What you fools don't realise is that both the Alafin of Oyo empire and Oba of Benin Empire sold out to the British Imperial masters. The Yoruba (just Oyo) and Edo-Bini people collaborated to enslave the children of God that lived in hat land of Canaan. Yall enslaved the Egba, Ketu, Ijebu, Warri, etc and sold them to Europeans during the transatlantic slave trade and Arab one prior. The Benin empire however is certainly much older and were better warriors than the ancient Oyo empire and certain put up a fight against the British. The Oba of Benin ensured his people were not enslaved. Oyo empire grew in importance and might only because they were fully backed by the colonial/imperialist masters.
Bottom line both sellout tribes..

Madman

BabaRamota1980:
Your scenario as a migrant in Ethiopia is no different than the scenario of Yoruba as a migrant in West Africa.

You want to apply one rule to Yoruba using Niger/Congo classification.....but you dont think any rule applies to Ethiopia by the uniqueness of its spirituality.

Is there anyone else known in East Africa or the Horn as Coptic Cjristians beside Ethiopians?

Is there anyone else known in West Africa with Ifa beside Yorubas?


Moreover, the Niger/Congo classification you all carry ontop of head is hogwash. The originator is European, the revisionists are Europeans, and none of them speaks Yoruba. Bring me a Yoruba linguist who has contributed to the classifi ation of Yoruba as a Niger/Congo tongue. None can be found!

What nonsense!

You just like to spew nonsense

Igbos have Afa, Ewe also call it Afa. Fon call it Fa.. Edo call it Iha, Urhobo call it Epha.

The following myth deals with the origin of Afa (divination). Although the Yoruba system of Ifa is the most popular, it did NOT originate with them and appears all over West Africa. The Fon people call it Fa. The Urhobos call it Epha. To the Ewe, its also called Afa. http://sunbeampress..com/2013/05/african-sacred-science-divination-among.html

Tayo Lamidi is a yoruba linguist who has published many works on African languages, none of which disputes Yoruba's status as a Niger-congo language.

Funny how a fellow with no university education talkless of knowledge in Linguistics wants to challenge Linguists all over the world. I thought you accepted that yoruba is a niger-congo langauge and learnt something yesterday. Apparently you dont learn, you just imagine and invent stories

I've said it. In Nigeria every unemployed fool is an historian
Look at this one and his inventive history

fallout87:
These stupid traditions need to be vacated.

I cringe when I see them.

then you cringe forever. cause these traditions will last forever

GodSon34:
It is time. You strike me as a troll! You have ignored the stuff I’ve posted so far and denied that the Newyork times article doesn’t prove Ijebu and Yoruba are diff? Like seriously? Waste of space me thinks

A troll because i am not stupid to believe your bullcrap? It doesnt. the article simply states the Ijebus demanded toll over passage from Lagos
it doesnt state ijebus are non yorubas.
you seem to lack english comprehension

BabaRamota1980:
Provide to who? To a nagging pussy?


We will reopen talks when men with stable minds come in. For now you are dismissed abeg.

there is no sensible person or person with a stable mind that will not ask you for evidence
You are looking for who will buy into your crap without questioning you. a red flag, when a man is afraid of scrutiny

GodSon34:
Actually I just decided you’re not worth my time..Goodluck! Bye!

Sir, if you have evidence, after going through all that stress to 'claim' proving yourself right would be a sweet prospect. Its not time, its lack of evidence. stop lying

just so you know you guys have your work cut out for you. You have to debunk all the established facts about Yoruba and provide evidence to your own claims that yoruba are Semitic. so think while you try to oppose the assertion that Yoruba is a Volta-Niger language, you will also have to try to provide evidence that Yoruba is a Semitic language, while you try to infer no similarities between Yoruba and Igbo culture or Igala culture or Fon culture, you will also have to provide the similarities btwn Yoruba and Hebrew culture

I'll be more active on nairaland for your lost souls. you want to deny your africanness so much you can do that for your own family not entire yorubaland

GodSon34:
We shall all find out on judgement day. It is well!

in other words you have no evidence that they are jebusites?

Olu317:
Well, you are the one that claimed Niger Congo's submission is right and I proved you wrong even with their own information. I expect you to say,thank you,because I have given you an information that yo never thought was true. In as much there linguistics, in the world, studies will continuously be carried out and critics will always exist. The ethnologue of many west African language have been studied beyond your comprehension. So be abreast with current information on historical research.

Where and how did you prove me wrong, can you take a screenshot or re post your evidence because i ddnt see it

sure studies will always be carried out , the question is are you carrying out any studies or you are smoking cow dung rapped with bible pages?

BabaRamota1980:
Hahahahahahaha.......

Look at person joining Isese. You just violated one of the codes of conduct in Isese.

Im glad i can draw out your outburst. Pussy!

code of conducts

Isese has no encompassing code of conducts(other than honor the ancestors of course), specific taboos apply to specific Orisha cults

That is what makes you glad in life? wasted life. As i expected you have no knowledge to pass, im still on nairaland when you have evidence that yoruba are semitic. foolish bastards

Olu317:
Mr . you drew the first blood and I had to hit hard on you. Do I have to be a linguist to showcase the flaws in kangaroo research that was made inform of magic? Of course not. But I have Shown you that you lived in the past of pseudo historical account. I have given biblical reference to differentiate between your so called ‘garment' and oracular ephod.

who is drawing blood with you? I am simply here to shut your idiocy down before you spread it to more people like babaramota confessed he wasn't always this idiotic, until he came on nairaland to be influenced by madmen.

yes you have to have a solid knowledge of linguistics to challenge those who have done countless research. you cannot sit down in front of a computer and claim linguistics is wrong to categorize Yoruba language as Niger-congo..it is a fact. there are over a thousand linguists who focus on Niger-congo languages, an umemployed poorly educated man cannot be taken seriously. You dont have sources , you dont have evidence but some gullible muslims and christians will be deceived by all this if nobody actually shuts this down
Oh really you showed me that i rely on pseudo-historical account. you used your own imagination to debunk academic facts do you even know what debunk means?

Ephod is a garment mr.man there is no biblical verse that calls Ephod a divination system.

Secondly, am sure you have acquired new knowledge on the meaning of KWA,which mean human being in Gbe and Ga . Yet it is meaningless in Yoruba language.I didn't at anytime mentioned other tribes or ethnicity but you draw in neighbouring Art work,yet you failed to realise that,they are not comparable because, even the sculptures ( Art work) found in ILE IFE had been analysed ,to mean, two different dynasty. Food for thought,my friend.

Lastly,please don't drag me into deviating from what I or others intend to share on this forum.

first off, i know what Kwa means, second this is irrelevant as Yoruba is not a Kwa language.
Simple task, since you claim Yoruba art has no similarity with that of her neighbors, identify the yoruba artworks there

BabaRamota1980:
If i knew the Isese group thats initiating you I will write them and request that you be made first to studytand be graded in Ifa before you are invested. You are joining Isese and you dont know what LABA is.

Mmmtchheeew....smh.

What is your orile?

mr. man shut the hell up. Go and worship your arab god like the bastard slave you are
When you regain your senses and free yourself from the bondage of the cancerous religion called islam we can talk

BabaRamota1980:
Yoruba is a migrant nation with roots in Canaan. The practices of Yoruba itself is inherent in Islam. So what if we learn christianity or islam. We still have our ancestral spirituality Ifa.

Oyinbos are today learning Ifa and practicing it.

Isnt that another uniqueness of Yoruba?

Yoruba is inherent in Islam. go and tell this to the Sheik of Mecca.

The fact that your claims are based off your religion is already a red flag... Your religion is foreign to yorubaland such that before malians brought islam to Oyo empire in the 17th century no yoruba person knew of Islam. In fact no yoruba converted until over a 100 years later
You do not have Ifa, stop deceiving yourself. it is still you muslims and christians that speak against Isese daily

Yes and we are welcoming them to Ifa since Your likes have oppressed Ifa for centuries in its own land. A person who adopts a yoruba way of life is far more yoruba than one who insults his ancestors or denies them like you

BabaRamota1980:
You are m0r0n. A big one at that!

I dont think there is anywhere in Africa you wouldnt find casts in metals and alloys. Yoruba stand out!

There is no where in Africa you wouldnt find spirituality. Yoruba stand out!

There is no where in Africa you wouldnt find government and community leaership. Yoruba is unique!


Even the Niger/Congo language you carry on head, there is not a single African contributor amongst the creators and authorities, all are foreigners. Beyond that the classifications have modified over 5 times since creation. As they discover new knowledge they expand and shrink as required.

Thats the point here.....the Niger/Congo classification is not set in stone. Its dynamic!

Studies and discoveries in Yoruba ultimately will recognize its uniqueness.

Your m0r0nic slavish mentality has vlocked your cognition to appreciate the contention here.

Why is Yoruba different and unique in all of the aspects of its cultural values and civilization, none of which have uniformity in its immediate neighbourhood? Thats the issue. Not some language model donated by foreigners whobthemselves dont even speak the languages they classified.

Have you yet gone to classify their languages in Europe?

Bloody slave!

actually Yoruba do not stand out particularly. There were many better organized African States like Songhai, Mali, Kanem-Bornu, Egypt, Kush, Aksum, Wagadu, Almoravid, Carthage, Numidia...even Sokoto. I get your drift now, you are feeling a sense of 'yoruba pride' but think africa is shitty so thats why you cant believe yorubas are just as african as other africans...even being one of the purest africans with almost no non-african contact or influence (direct or indirect) . And thats were real pride should lay, that Yoruba achieved and built a civilization that is completely homegrown.

since you want to take it personal, i dont shy away from personal stuff if need be.. I happen to be very Yoruba boastful and pro-african values and identity (which is under attack from Islam and Christianity). I support Isese and will be getting initiated soon at Oyo. So basically I'm more Yoruba minded than a muslim who licks arab ass 5 times daily.
You are the real slave, a slave to Arabs, that is why you cannot imagine being a bloody african, you want to attachee by force or crook