₦airaland Forum

zodiakzax:
"But the Pharisees lied that Jesus was " making himself equal to God" John 5:18. but Christ disagreed ( " the Father (Yahweh) is greater than I". John 14:28)"


A distortion of scripture


Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
John 5:18 KJV

Jews not Pharisees.. now get this clear and get it into your uneducated head, this was a statement by the writer John and not the jews, John said Christ was making Himself God and that was the reason why the Jews wanted to kill Him. So no Pharisees Lied here, because they were not even mentioned, no jews lied here because they never said anything....

zodiakzax:
"But the Pharisees lied that Jesus was " making himself equal to God" John 5:18. but Christ disagreed ( " the Father (Yahweh) is greater than I". John 14:28)"


A distortion of scripture


Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
John 5:18 KJV

Jews not Pharisees.. now get this clear and get it into your uneducated head, this was a statement by the writer John and not the jews, John said Christ was making Himself God and that was the reason why the Jews wanted to kill Him. So no Pharisees Lied here, because they were not even mentioned, no jews lied here because they never said anything....

Gruni1234:
Hi, so I can deduce that you've accepted my remarks on the Pharoah verse you quoted as invalid right? It seems there was no rebuttal there. Good to know, we are heading somewhere.

I believe you are all running around in circles, when you confront each other, a topic must be picked, supported or debated by those for or against it. Then we will have a head way. Now I asked you what linguistical prove do you have to reject the other versions of the Bible, some versions which you yourself used like the KJV.


Point 2. Have been made clear from the other side that Christ was both God and Man. So as Man he's subjected to God and as God he's equal in nature. That fact has been made well proven.

Point 3-4. Guess appropriate answer is Jesus was man on Earth so saying the Father is greater than Him makes sense to ME because humanly speaking my Father is greater than me because He is my head and have more authority than me.

Thomas was an apostle right? Of Christ right? So this affirms that the apostles saw Christ as God. Thomas needn't call him Almighty God, most of the Apostles infact did not call God almighty. So you affirm that Christ is God since Thomas called Him God. Good that was easy. So we again making a head way.

Now Can you answer my question:

what linguistical prove do you have to reject the other versions of the Bible, some versions which you yourself used like the KJV.

Thank you.

Gruni1234:
The bible clearly says Jesus is God in John 1:1, "..And the Word was God". that should settle everything. But it amuses me why you people still debate on this issue.

johnw47:
ha ha, oh duh false jw,
and Jesus never corrected Him, because it's true
so Jesus is God of not just thomas, but of the apostles and disciples and all christians
Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
just pointing out your lies onej

OneJ:
[quote author=zodiakzax post=73302338]Thanks once again to rightly divide the truth and to stand boldly as a good judge. I could not have explained it better... i am also glad others are reading and watching. And may the Lord give the increase, what you seek you will find... I don't know why you doubt the existence of God but like my brother said we cannot tell how but we can pray that Jesus reveals Himself to you.

OneJ:
cc:
*Gruni1234
*zodiakzax

U don't even know Jesus or his Father, Yahweh, let alone show some one how to find him.


Jesus Christ is not the same as the God Almighty ( Yahweh)who gave him a name above every name (Phil 2:9,10) & NEITHER will Yahweh be under Christ authority in heaven & earth.
(1 cor 15:24-27)


Revelation 3 Vs12
" Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple (sanctuary) of my God... I will write on him the name of my God,and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem which is coming down out of heaven from my God. I will also write on him my new name"

3Vs 21
"To him who overcomes, I will give him the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and SAT DOWN WITH MY FATHER ON HIS THRONE"
Rev 3:12,14,21

In heaven, Yahweh is Supreme ,Christ is subordinate.
Jesus is not Yahweh.
Fact.
(Can't U see that something is wrong with una mumu doctrine of trinity?

Gruni1234:
Greetings, first of all, let me point out that I'm but a neutral reader, looking at evidences provided by both sides to ascertain what is and what is not. Leaning towards one person or group doesn't not mean i support or approve of them, just logically putting it that group has made more logical and valid points than the other.

That said, mind the way you talk to people giving that you don't know who you are talking to, how old, and how knowledgeable. Standing in front of a phd holder in theology you are but a child who doesn't know why A is A and why B is B, you only know that A is A or that it B is B, so don't go about saying someone is confused.

Let me now address your points:

You make the claim that zodiakzax uses a wrong translation of the Holy Bible to ascertain his fact and that Every other bible version translated it as form. Problem with this is that he did not only use the NIV but several translations which he posted in his comments, some use the word Nature and some use form and others were to the point that He being God etc. So your claim there is Invalid. Also, What linguistical proof do you have that the NIV and other translated versions that render morphe as Nature are wrong as you claim? Now you said "Jesus "did not consider equality with God, (Yahweh.) something to be grasped" or "used to his advantage" na BIG LIE .
Christ himself has no reason or basis to assume or think he is equal to God." Well another problem again, It is evident that was what the verse Phil 2:6 is saying, the writer said "Christ was in the form/nature of God but did not consider Himself equal with God"
So Christ even though was God did not equal Himself to God.

To prove your case you cited several verses to defend yourself.Jesus said my Father is greater than I as point to show that Jesus Himself says God is above Him, so Jesus cannot be God, good, but the writer in Phil 2:6 clearly shows that even though Jesus was in the form/nature of God, he did not consider Himself equal to God, taking that into account, it explains why Jesus should say My Father is greater than I because he doesn't want to make Himself equal to God. And just as you insist that we should allow scripture to talk for itself, i think you should to.

According to my research into Christianity and of course a believer that God doesnt exist, i have come accross certain claims of Christians and especially Trinitarians, they believe Jesus was both Human and God at the same time, so Jesus makes certain strong claim like "I and My Father are one" ,.John 1:1 saying He is God and many more which I'm not conversant with.


Now OneJ let us examine as you aspire to let scripture speak for it self,

It is said God has highly exalted Jesus and given him a name which is above every name, so that at the mention of that name every knee should bend of those on heaven,on earth and under the earth and every tongue should confess that Jesus is Lord to the glory of the Father.

Let us break this down, God exalted Jesus and gave Him a name Above Every name, so Jesus' name is above every name, when we say your name is above every name in your country we mean your name is superior to all others, no other name is superior. So his name is superior to God's but because the Trinitarians believe one truine God, this makes perfect sense on their part.

2. Writer said at the name of Jesus every knee should bow and confess in heaven: now zodiakzax asked a very striking question, where does God reside? And obviously heaven as believed by all Christians, so if every knee should bow in heaven then it means all beings in heaven should bow including God. Zodiakzax pointed out that if the writer should say every other knee then it supposed that not all will conform to this rule but " other "cannot be seen there. So all including God must conform and yet again because the Trinitarians believe in a truine God it makes perfect sense.


To further ascertain your claim you quoted genesis 40:39,40 I must tell you I looked through the entire genesis and I didn't get this only to find out that you made a mistake and that it was Genesis 41:39-40 you were referring to so next time be patient.

Now reading for myself your example, it is striking that you did not add the later comment of Pharoah when he said "only in the throne will I be greater than you" to your point. It is therefore evident that even though Pharoah gave Joseph authority over his kingdom he limited Joseph's authority to the rulership of the people alone and not to his role as king. So using this point to support your claim is also invalid for the only reason that Pharoah who being man knew very well that he had to limit Joseph in his authority, which is clearly stated in the verse. But in the case of Phil 2:9-11, there's no wording there to suggest that Christ was limited in His authority. It also could have said only in the name of God is his name not above, something like that but rather used the word "every".


You said did Thomas call Jesus Almighty God? Well there are so many verses that shows that God is not always referred to as Almighty God when ever he's been spoken off. In many cases the writers in the new testament didn't use the title Almighty God when talking about God, just like Phil 2:6 Where it is said he was in the form/nature God (not almighty God) consider Himself not to be equal to God (again not Almighty God) also Phil 2:9, wherefore God(not Almighty God) has highly exalted him, and many more verses where onmy God is used not Almighty God. So your point and logic here is invalid.

Exodus 7:1 from most rendering It is said Moses shall be Like God to Pharoah and not God, I think someone pointed out that your very own NWT renders it as such and that if you consider your NWT as the most authentic then why don't you stick to it as they stick to their sources. Why then do you want to use KJV, obviously because it supports your claim, and these tricks are what poor debators use. Obviously you won't accept the version of the KJ because most verses in it is against your believe and your NWT, for example in John 1:1 your NWT says The word was a god, when most sources including the KJV says the Word was God. You will obviously again say the KJV is in error as you seem to do to other versions like the NIV which go contrary to your understanding. So why don't you stick to your NWT as they stick to their sources as someone pointed out, which I think you should do providing the NWT was translated so you won't be misled. Let us stop using cheap gimmicks and rather boldly face the facts.


Yes indeed according to Christianity there exist only One true God and not gods, if that was true and if you accept that which you do why do your NWT say Jesus is another god when there can only be one God. I think this was a question most ask you. Which you have failed to defend in most cases but quick to use when defending your claims.


Here I should say again that I am for no group, if anyone makes a valid claim and proves it I will upon my own research deem it valid or not valid.


Thank you.

Hairyrapunzel:
You even have to lie about the Bible passage to keep peddling falsehood. Where did the Bible say Sodom and Gomorrah fire is aka eternal fire?
You see you you just keep lying?

johnw47:
i'm not defending the trinity
i am showing false jw's to be liars

i don't know if i can show anyone that God exists
it can probably be done from the Bible

i know he exists because He lives in me

brocab:
Yes the JW's tells us the truth alright, which way is the quickest way into Hell..
Matter of fact I don't believe your Church would even preach Hell..
But if you refuse to repent-you are going there!

brocab:
Yes the JW's tells us the truth alright, which way is the quickest way into Hell..
Matter of fact I don't believe your Church would even preach Hell..
But if you refuse to repent-you are going there!

johnw47:
i'm not defending the trinity
i am showing false jw's to be liars

i don't know if i can show anyone that God exists
it can probably be done from the Bible

i know he exists because He lives in me

jesusjnr:
I was expecting those who claim to be followers of Jesus but been working tirelessly for the devil by their passionate propagation of satan's gospel that there's no hell, to come out as they've usually done to dispute my previous post, let me see what basis they would use in this case if it was just an illustration or gehenna or whatever they call it. Perhaps they're still thinking about it. Making satan happy and they don't even have the least idea about it!

success541:
Jehovah witness are fake people

Hairyrapunzel:
Yes He is.


Since the spirit and physical body cease to exist at death how come anointed jws go to heaven after they die yet their dead body is still in the casket?

johnw47:
Act 2:36  Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 

Father made Jesus both Lord and Christ, good
He certainly is Lord and Christ
but to false jw He is just "a god"
one of your two false god's: a almighty god and a mighty god

oh duh false jw onej

johnw47:
yes and many verses were given showing that Jesus is YAHWEH, which you false jw onej don't believe




laugh, oh duh is right, truly Father is not the Son they are two diffrent persons
and are the one God YAHWEH



ha ha, the lies and contradictions and the confusion are all yours false jw onej

johnw47:
christians who revere Jesus call him by His proper names-titles: Christ, the Lord, etc.
antichrist tatime who has little regard for the Saviour of the world calls Him: "the young guy from Nazareth"

johnw47:
oh duh not the same person, Father and the word is the same God, two persons
your lies are endless and you are blinded as can be:

zodiakzax:


Exodus 7:1 NIV
Then the LORD said to Moses, "See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet.


Ex 7:1 NLT
Then the LORD said to Moses, "Pay close attention to this. I will make you seem like God to Pharaoh, and your brother, Aaron, will be your prophet.


New American Standard Bible Ex 7:1

The LORD answered Moses, "See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and Aaron your brother will be your prophet.


Why did you use kjv? Thought you said it's a corrupt version so why quote from a corrupt version to prove your point when you reject that version of the bible when Christians use it to judge their case? Hypocrites...

I don't only use KJV i use other versions of the bible except NWT to understand scripture. But it's striking what the NWT says since you believe is the most accurate version...


And your own NWT Ex 7:1

Jehovah then said to Moses: “See, I have made you like God to Pharʹaoh, and Aaron your own brother will become your prophet.

Guess you will reject the NWT because it goes against your lies
.I'm waiting for you to disregard your own translation... SHAME ON YOU...

I prefer you use your translation henceforth to argue your case became to you it's the most accurate version of the Bible. But if you want to use the kjv alone too then let's stick to kjv that's if you wouldn't get heart attack



Isaiah 48, Yahweh is speaking, vs 16 Yahweh sends Yahweh. I asked you what scriptures referenced that to a prophesy about Christ? These challenges your mind because you lack and refuse the doctrine of the trinity so of course I expected it to look foolish to you because you are already made foolish by your organization..


This verse is so above you that the more you try to inject your own understanding the foolish you seem.

zodiakzax:
Moses was LIKE God not God.. if my brain is full of saw dust and I can think and understand scripture this way then I wonder what's in yours?

You find it difficult to get around simple English language.. Like I said it's normal with you lots because your organization is against perusing self analyses and research and of course education..


You have failed to defend Isaiah 48:16 all you are saying is totally out of subject in question.. but that's your tactic diverting into another irrelevant verse to support your heretic claims..which verses uses Isaiah 48:16 as a reference to a prophecy of Jesus? Yahweh said Yahweh and His Spirit sent Yahweh..

zodiakzax:
1cor 7:5-6 doesn't say anything about god or gods, you mind is playing tricks with you... where in the Psalms dis Yahweh say His sons are gods? Is that what the verse said?


Psalm 82:1 says, “God presides in the great assembly; he gives judgment among the gods.” It is clear from the next three verses that the word “gods” refers to magistrates, judges, and other people who hold positions of authority and rule. Calling a human magistrate a “god” indicates three things: 1) he has authority over other human beings, 2) the power he wields as a civil authority is to be feared, and 3) he derives his power and authority from God Himself, who is pictured as judging the whole earth in verse 8.


For example, when God sent Moses to Pharaoh, He said, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh” (Exodus 7:1). This simply means that Moses, as the messenger of God, was speaking God’s words and would therefore be God’s representative to the king. The Hebrew word Elohim is translated “judges” in Exodus 21:6 and 22:8, 9, and 28.

Vs 7 days these gods/judges shall die like men and fall like one of the princes. Telling us they are mortals...

Now

As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and Lords many,) B[/b]ut to us there is [i]but one God, [/i]the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and [b]one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
1 Corinthians 8:4‭-‬6 KJV

Evident that there's only ONE GOD UNTO US


Yahweh said talking about other gods that there's no other God apact from me,

I am the Lord , and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
Isaiah 45:5 KJV

Thus saith the Lord , The labour of Egypt, and merchandise of Ethiopia and of the Sabeans, men of stature, shall come over unto thee, and they shall be thine: they shall come after thee; in chains they shall come over, and they shall fall down unto thee, they shall make supplication unto thee, saying, Surely God is in thee; and there is none else, there is no God.
Isaiah 45:14 KJV


See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
Deuteronomy 32:39 KJV

From verse we see that no god with God except Him so The Word cannot be a god with God when God said there's no other god with me. Unless God is stupid to say there's no God except me then says again there are gods and that these gods are true Gods and He is the head of them but God is not stupid to imply that and that's why over and over again He said THERES NO OTHER GOD APART FROM HIM. Paul said there be many so called gods but unto us there's but ONE GOD..

which obviously in vs 7 of 1cor 8 he said not every man has that knowledge, you accuse us of that but guess what we never said there are many gods but ONE, you guys said there are many gods..

It's quite difficult dealing with illiterates. It's just too difficult trying to teach a kid things his mind cannot comprehend... hmmm..

zodiakzax:
still showing your illiteracy but I will condone you, Jesus said Yahweh only is the TRUE God, have you seen the Word true there,.So it means all other ones that call themselves gods are false gods by Yahwehs standard. Now did we say Jesus was another god? Nope we didn't, you JW's say he's "a god" a smaller god, so if Jesus said Yahweh is the only TRUE GOD then what kind of other god is Jesus by your doctrines, he can only be a false god since Yahweh is the ONLY TRUE GOD AND BESIDES HIM THERE'S NONE.

Free critical understanding lesson... i don't blame u lots, you were taught not to take education serious so you obviously lack high critical thinking.. it's serious

zodiakzax:
the most confusing thing you've said so far, your friend just pointed out that there's only one God and rightly so, Yahweh says I alone I'm God there's NO God apact from me... I guess you speak and understand English...let me get down to your level, so basically Yahweh is saying if anyone calls himself god or if anyone calls someone god then that god is a false one because I alone I'm God... one God not more than one.. Do You understand now?

OneJ:
Yahweh said "You are gods",you are all sons of the Most High" Psalms 82:6. (sons ,plural)
Jesus Christ quoted Psalms 82:6 and said "I am God's Son" John 10:34-36.
Therefore, Jesus Christ. is a god because God's sons are gods.
Yahweh never said his sons are false gods.
Because U refused to swallow your pride & accept the bitter pill of truth, U & your crew of LIARS are the ones who "makes Jesus a false god"
Una mumu done do !!

zodiakzax:
the most confusing thing you've said so far, your friend just pointed out that there's only one God and rightly so, Yahweh says I alone I'm God there's NO God apact from me... I guess you speak and understand English...let me get down to your level, so basically Yahweh is saying if anyone calls himself god or if anyone calls someone god then that god is a false one because I alone I'm God... one God not more than one.. Do You understand now?