₦airaland Forum

I think that Missy85 is one smart babe, though I may not agree with some of her points, but she comes off truly sharp!  

I am for any country where there is agreement from day one about what the country would be.

I don't think that language and religion is really a big deal, LAGOS is a proof to that. If you have only Yoruba Muslims, you would never know that Muslims can be violent. So, I agree with abagworo too that a multi-ethnic country is not a bad idea, provided there is agreement from day one. I don't see any other tribe trying to hold on to power (even unfairly in most instances) in Nigeria except the Hausa/Fulani.
In a sense, I would blame them for Nigeria's failure to be a united strong country.

Those of us who agitate for Biafra do so when we think that other options are not possible.

@Akhenaten
Please heed the advice already given. Ignore alj harem1 .

Isn't it interesting that while other forumites are actually trying to figure out how to disintegrate Nigeria peacefully and really trying their best to put forward viable solutions (even though some ideas may sound ridiculous ), a character like alj harem1 is more interested in sowing seeds of division and confusion in eastern Nigeria in futile effort to stop the inevitable.
The guy is not even interested in putting forward any alternative solution to how we move Nigeria forward AS IS, or how to move forward apart. He is NOT INTERESTED at all! hehehe!  

Isn't it the same thing the north has done all these years?  
They had the opportunity to fix things, but were more interested in carving up nonviable states and maintaining a system that is unsustainable in the long run. SMH

@topic,

I have always been for a united FUNCTIONAL Nigeria if possible. There has been a few times that our unity brings joy.
However, we have some insurmountable problems. Let me list a few:

SHARIA LAW and systematic Islamization of Nigeria
Quota system and indegene vs settler controversy in a single country.
Over-centralization of power leading to massive corruption of the whole system from federal to local government.
Robbing Peter to pay Paul using population figures.

In a sane society where people are actually interested in being one, these problems can easily be tabled and discussed.
But in Nigeria, where some sections feel that they have cornered the collective patrimony as a result of winning the civil war, even something like a national conference have been rejected and sabotaged.

So, even a most optimistic Nigerian would begin to believe that Nigeria is irredeemable.


BTW where is ndu_chucks?  

I would like to debate him on this.  

ndu_chucks:
@Onlytruth, I'm sorry to say that an organization that doesn't have  any problem with kidnapping and killing innocent people, detonated car bombs in Warri which killed more innocent people, is nothing but a terrorist organization. You can call them resource control agitators if you wish, but in my books, they are murderers and common criminals who should be dealt with as such.

We can debate the credibility of MEND in another thread if you wish. Note that Soyinka himself has dissociated himself from the organization after finding out what they are all about.

I would NEVER defend MEND and its tactics. I never support people who attack innocent folks and blow up pipelines.  NEVER.

Having said that, comparing MEND with Boko Haram is like comparing a headache (curable with a simple panadol) with a brain tumor (needing a complicated and delicate surgery to remove).

Dem no dey for the same category -apologies to the late Abami eda.

Give MEND resource control and they would wind up.
Give the whole world to Al queda and Boko Haram, they will still go on killing. 

So open that new thread, let's debate. 

ndu_chucks:
@Onlytruth, why did you remove GEJ's quote included in my write-up when you quoted my post? Let me guess, obfuscation and lame attempt to put the wool over people's eyes.

Look if investigations lead to some elements of MEND, then so be it., if it leads to religious extremist - same same. [size=14pt]Deal with the culprits [/size]promptlyu. shikena

I didn't remove your quote; the system did when I hit the reply button.

Yes I totally agree that the culprits should be dealt with seriously. We agree on that.

I only disagreed with your lame attempt to muddle the facts and hoodwink the unsuspecting by lumping resource control agitators with mass murderers and sworn enemies of humanity masquerading as religious zealots.

ndu_chucks:
@Onlytruth, I'm glad most forumites are brighter than you, in that they would not reach the same conclusion as you, concerning the notion that I am trying to link  MEND with Al Qaeda.  I am free to explore all information available to us to reach whatever conclusion I want.  

Let me remind you of GEJ's remarks after the Abuja bombing:

Now the FBI is telling us that they “conclusively found  that the signature of the bomb matched other blasts by the Al Qaeda terror network.”

I'm sorry to inform you that GEJ already made the association you are accusing me of attempting to make. His Interior Minister even criticised him for it, but GEJ is privvy to more information than the said minister.

Your attempt at falsely accusing me has fallen on its face as usual. olodo

@eku_bear, lets hope for the best.

Look, I'm not exonerating MEND or any southern militant from anything; afterall I am not a member and wouldn't know what they are up to.  
But to say that the blast the FBI identified with signature of Al queda bomb-making is the same as one used by MEND, is your own spin.  I never read that anywhere.

How I wish that the friends of Nigeria would focus on where the real terrorists and mass murderers are in Nigeria - NORTHERN NIGERIA. Early indications are that they are doing just that.  

ndu_chucks:
I'm sure more details will become available soon. It is noteworthy that "a link between Al Qaeda and the Henry Okah's flank of MEND is currently giving investigators and prosecutors in South Africa a serious concern as to the strength, dynamics and connection of the Nigerian militant group. Okah is said to have arms deal with Al Qaeda network."  http://www.pointblanknews.com/News/os4086.html

There is no doubt that Al Quaeda will use religious extremists, MEND, or any other group to achieve their goals. [/b]Let's pray that this story is not true.

[b]ndu_chucks,

Sometimes I wonder where you leave your conscience.

So, can you in all honesty tell us that MEND, or any s/south group would EVER ally with al quaeda? What do they share in common?
IMHO they share nothing. One (MEND) attacks oil pipelines (which I STRONGLY CONDEMN too ), but one (al quaeda) aims for maximum massacre and death.

Shame on you for trying to link them.

[size=16pt]US predicts more bomb attacks in Nigeria[/size]

By Ike Nnamdi, Correspondent, Washington D.C

Friday, January 07, 2011

Nigeria will experience more deadly bomb attacks this year as extreme militant groups affiliated to Al-Qaida step up their efforts to undermine the government, according to America’s elite spy agency, The Central Intelligence Agency (CIA).

In a memo sent to President Barack Obama and top defence chiefs, the [size=14pt]CIA said the long term objective of the groups is the overthrow of “Nigeria’s secular government to be replaced by a strict Islamic administration under Sharia law.
[/size]
“The agency also concluded that foreign terrorist groups have set up safe havens in the country and are actively recruiting and training youths who they intend to deploy for terror attacks against government facilities.” Officials also warned that some Nigerian security officials have also been compromised by terror groups and could be playing an active part in helping them achieve their objectives.

“The agency predicted the rise of terror groups in Nigeria years ago but the situation now is dire, worsened by the combination of unemployment, the religious and ethnic direction of the present political scenarios”, officials of the Homeland Security Department told Daily Sun. Sources said facilities on the target list of these groups include airports, power stations, oil pipelines, hotels and any place where large number of casualties can be recorded. “The ultimate aim is to cause a large number of deaths and damages”, according to a counter-terrorism official.

The Daily Sun learnt that it was because of the urgency of the Nigerian situation that the administration took the unprecedented step of President Obama and Homeland Security chief Janet Napalitano jointly criticizing the New Year eve bombing in Abuja. “The administration is concerned about the unfolding event in Nigeria and is in discussion with its relevant security agencies for greater security cooperation,” officials stated.

The CIA recommends that Abuja must monitor more closely religious schools, especially in the north and funds sent in by foreign groups as gifts. It also warns that officials who lose out in the elections are likely to play the religious card, which could further raise tension.

http://www.sunnewsonline.com/webpages/news/national/2011/jan/07/national-07-01-2011-019.htm

I don't think she'll go for it with Ribadu. The political risk is too high.

Now, with a Buhari in a merger involving ACN, CPC and APGA, Akunyili will do the magic for the ticket.
Buhari will bring the brawn while she brings the brains.

Both of them would be no-nonsense straight poles of leadership. They would straighten Nigeria almost overnight.
And for the first time, we may actually head somewhere.

But knowing Nigeria well, such combination will scare the usual "stakeholders" who always prefer "dark horse" politicians at the eleventh hour.

Ribadu is too inexperienced to run a presidential campaign with all the intrigues and maneuvers.

lol, she looks like my senior sister! 
Frankly she looks Igbo, complete with her attire. 

Just tell me how you can get mad after seeing these. . .

I admit that anytime I see Nigerian kids I get connected to some of the few good things about Nigeria.

Nigerians are generally more innocent IMHO than most citizens of developed countries.

Innocence leads to happiness.

Doctors don't invent medicines, pharmacists do.
Doctors don't even diagnose intrusively, medical lab scientists and radiologists do.
Doctors don't invent medical equipment, biomedical engineers do.

An IT/programming guru does ALL of the above in IT. He/She writes machine level codes: firmware and BIOS.
To do deep stuff, they don't even use IDEs because they need to design something that works across different programming languages (cross platform).
They brainstorm and create things all their lives.

Doctors only do peripheral diagnosis and issue prescriptions.

How can anyone even compare the two?

okeyxyz:
seriously?
so all the millions of medicines, pills, injections, surgical equipments and procedures were invented by carpenters ehn? in IT u can create any rubbish and through into the market, but not so in medicine. there r thousands of new medicines invented every year, but very few are approved by the authorities. have you ever visited a pharmacy store? surely all those medicines on the shelves and stock room are inventions, don't you think?

Doctors don't invent medicines, Pharmacists and biomedical engineers do those.
The only thing doctors do is to diagnose disease and write prescriptions or perform surgery.

Diagnosing a disease is almost like debugging a code. But then programmers do more after the diagnosis. They create stuff that fixes the problem. Doctors pass the buck to pharmacists. Even complex diagnosis require other professionals such as medical lab scientists and radiologists. People mistake these professionals for doctors but they are not.

The programmer is the equivalent of all of them put together, except where hardware is concerned. Even in hardware, they write machine level codes that control them: firmware, bios, etc.

^^

I was arguing with mikeansy, I didn't know I was actually arguing with marcdunu.

If I knew, I wouldn't even have bothered because marcdunu and I have long agreed to disagree.

SMH! 

Yes it is true. She is from Onitsha.

OAM4J:
Just noticed too

Yea I noticed! Chineke!

I don dey fear for nairaland o!

Obiagu1:
I'll remind you of this post when the election figures come out and the population you think the North don't have stares you in the face.

I'll remind you to openly and formally call GEJ, a COLOSSAL FOOL.

but again, folks like me will be crying knowing the problem this has created for me and my children.

Relax, you won't cry.
You think I don't entertain your fears too?
The difference between us is that I believe that Ndigbo are a majority tribe, if not THE single biggest tribe in Nigeria. Therefore we can win the presidency irrespective of these fears. All we need do is plan well and execute it well.

Calm down bros, no shaking!

marcdunu:
Sorry meant my hat.

certainly will not mess with the lion of Igbo land lol.

Bia marcdunu, so you are mikeansy? Chei!  

Obiagu1:
@ OnlyTruth, you sound as if you work for Jonathan and know things we don't know. You even know that Jonathan believes the population figures are false and you know he wasn't doing what he is doing because of greed.

I then ask you, are you GEJ? If not, are you his chief of tstaff or personal assistant? If not, did you formulate all this you say for him because you believe that's how he is thinking as well?

*shaking my head*

I told you that I don't look at things from obvious angles. Let me say this, I could be wrong at the end of the day (though from my personal antecedents, that is unlikely ).

All I'm saying is that only a COLOSSAL fool would go against Northern Nigeria based on greed alone, without something solid backing him. I would never believe that Jonathan is a fool, at least not yet. He has not given me any reason to think so.

He has not made any serious wrong moves since he took over, and I don't believe he would spend months to make up his mind about running, only to do something pedestrian.

So I assume he must know something we don't know. I am not his inner circle but I follow Nigerian politics very closely.

mikeansy:
BTW Can I just duff my heart for Bianca Ojukwu.

She deployed all the skills of tact and diplomacy you will expect from a Beauty Queen in that speech.

Agreed.
She is a rare combination of beauty and brains. I can't wait for her political career to launch. 

OAM4J:
Your heart or your cap?

Ikemba is still a warrior o, even on a sick bed. . . I'll advice you tread carefully the path which even angels dread to pass 

hehehe! tell am o!

mikeansy:
What does the above stand for?
Ask hard question if you wish and I do not believe you ask harder questions than I do on this site. What matters is how you ask them.

What has having an Igbo man as Interior Minister got to do with solving a serious problem? Call out Capt Iheanacho to solve the National Identity problem which clearly is a National scandal. He will have to work hard to achieve any results and he will do his job as a Nigerian solving a Nigerian problem.

If your working premise is that because he is Igbo then he will achieve the correct results in your eyes; it betrays some myths that his predecessors failed in your eyes because they are non-Igbos.  What do you get in an air of suspicion like that? Iheanacho's employees in the Ministry of interior may carry on colluding with politicians to doctor results in their own area and what should be a noble effort to solve a real National Scandal will simply be taken over by short term parochial interests.

But how did it all start? It starts from folks misrepresenting what the effort has been all about in the first place.

Having an accurate statistics of how many we are is in the interest of all Nigerians from Maidugiri to Sokoto to Port Harcourt. If a Govt has no accurate statistics how can they plan. But you speak of it as if there is some kind of Igbo agenda Jonathan is trying to fulfill by appointing an Igbo man as Interior Minister.

This is not about sounding popular, this is about being strategic and achieving results.

anyway, let the debate end. You are what you are and some things may never change. I only get offended when folks like you arrogate yourselves the responsibility of speaking for the rest of us without knowing what damage you are actually doing to Igbos.

So, Iheanocho would now be the first Igbo to solve a difficult national problem? And then single Igbos out?
Dude, again, what are you talking?

Where were you when Okonjo-Iweala, Oby Ezekwesiri, Soludo and Akunyili were solving those big national problems?

You are the one singling yourself out (not Igbos) on this issue.
I made my point because Igbo are known to tackle difficult national problems. That is a fact of history.
If you are worried that I pointed that out, then  you have thrown the same cause you claim to be fighting for under the bus. Man up and face facts.

But let me ask you a question. Assuming for instance that Iheanacho finds out that population figures have been doctored in the past to favor the north, what do you suggest he does?

Should he cover it up in order to avoid being blamed for letting the cat out of the bag because he is Igbo?

Nna make sure you visit village more often. You are beginning to sound like efulefu.

I would say IT -Programming, because it involves invention of new things. Medicine only requires you to understand existing things like biomedical and pharmacological things.
You don't need to invent anything in your entire career as a doctor. A programmer invents throughout his career, and debugging codes is a real pain (if you are not using any of the IDEs), i.e. if you are really doing deep stuff outside the box which is where IT (programming) pros really distinguish themselves. 

I would admit that both require different types of brain power though: medicine needs to memorize volumes of stuff; IT needs you to remember very difficult abstract things like syntax and algorithms.

alj harem1:
@onlytruth

we should be looking at what will benefit nigerians not only a certain group of people

as i said last year " the north has produce the president for 38 years yet we are lacking behind in infrastructures" which show that it is we need to look at the wider implication of nigeria not just the north,,ss,se,sw

lets take others into consideration 

So, it would not benefit all Nigerians to know the true population and demographic of Nigeria?
It would not benefit all Nigerians to have a free and fair elections?

You guys are so pathetic.

Because we have someone whose interest may encourage him to reveal this "secret", it now favors a section of Nigeria?

I told you once to go borrow a brain, I'm getting tired of you.

mikeansy:
@ Onlytruth

Do not under-estimate the limits of selfish interest and vaulting ambition. Education can not thame a man's insatiable quest for power sometimes.

I will also say to you another thing, quit your we vs them mentality. Not a lot can be achieved under such air of suspicion. In fact we run the risk of a situation where issues of universal interest which obviously benefits Igbos and also other Nigerians get treated with suspicion and hence fail. In a situation like that we all loose.

This is a democracy, Jonathan will not achieve a lot without NASS approval. If you start talking about mainstream issues as if they only benefit sectional interests then we will not make much progress.

I give you an example. Obama fought for Healthcare and risked his political future on it. He said it was for all poor people whether they are white, black, latino or asian americans. But it is obvious he took on this task knowing that amongst poor americans there are more ethnic monorities below the poverty line. Yet the debate was framed as being in the interest of all Americans which it certainly is.

Number 2, there is a reason USA reluctantly chose to do business with Russia and preferred to contain the Russia and Georgia situation as opposed to sticking by Goergia thier traditional allies and antagonising Russia. It is called recognition of inconvinient realities. Russia has a veto power at the UN and is still a  super power.

It is in the interest of Ndigbo in the wider Nigeria geopolitics to maintain a healthy relationship with the North and yet have a good relationship with our cousins in the South South. We are a majority ethnic group and so is the Hausas. They need us as much as we need them. An alliance between the igbos and Hausas can achieve either electoral victory  or NASS voting results.

But liaising with the South South alone and alienating everyone else is simply a boneheaded move because you can not achieve anything with that alliance. Not electoral victory nor NASS legislative victory.

Make no mistake, when Jonathan's ambition is out of the way one way or the other; the Ijaws and the Hausas will reconcile and you will be left out in the cold if you have made enough enemies by then.

So I honestly do not see  the point of this your we against them mentality. Capt Iheanacho was appointed Interior Minister, so what? If he is smart and ensures that we have a National ID card scheme that guarantees that we have a true idea of our population. How is that not in the interest of the whole of Nigeria? If Nigeria is able to fashion out a plan where we set up a programme to achieve true fedralism and dedicate our oil resource in the coast of guinea to develop regional economies so that states get self sufficient, How is that not in the interest of all Nigerians.

better still if we are able to exploit the current NASS overhead cost to restructure to old regions so that cost of running the federal government becomes cheaper and meaning more money to dedicate to programmes like energy, education or health infrastructure. How is that not in the interest of all Nigerians?

This is politics 101. leave your we vs they mentality. It has never worked and will never move this country forward. For the future of Ndigbo is simply intertwined with the future of Nigeria. Stop speaking of main stream interests as if they are some sinister Igbo interest. It is not in the interest of anybody to do so and not certainly in the interest of Ndigbo.

mikeansy:
Ndigbo can only be fair minded to all and forge alliances with all who liaise with us.

"tibguo zogbuo" and "we vs them" serves nobody any good.

The civil war ended in 1970, we can either through reaching grown up compromises turn to the next chapter and help create a new destiny for all Nigerians OR you can stay stuck and refight the fights of the 60s and 70s and achieve nothing but to pass this legacy of war/injustice to your children.

Some of us who try to speak of politics in fair minded words are no foolish or aloof; we are simply strategic.

Pray, what is this dude talking about? 

You are embarrassing yourself with your "we vs them" mentality.

Show me anywhere in my post on this thread where I alluded to any of that! 

So, it is now a "we vs them" to point out that Nigerians have been lied to for 50 years, and that the president might be planning to let us know the truth by conducting a free and fair election? 

The whole world knows that the last credible census in Nigeria was in 1954. An American friend who is joining my consultancy firm in Nigeria wondered aloud how Nigeria's population could be estimated at between 120 -160 million. I tried my best to defend Nigeria, but stopped when I started sounding as ridiculous as you!

We can no longer ask hard questions because folks like you are busy trying to win popularity contest. Little wonder why the north laughs at Ndigbo and other southerners. Keep up your popularity contest. I ain't contesting with you.
A little pat on the head by Ileke-Idi, and you are already throwing your senses under the bus! Pathetic! 

alj harem1:
i doubt that

what is the population of us igbos in each state?

now, how many igbos will see it from your point of view know full well how individualistic we are

i remember the eze ndigbo of lagos pledging his support for ACN

onlytruth, some igbos in lagos are now fully intergartes to this yoruba system of politics and will not follow us in the east

but yes some will still, but most igbos outside the east in nigeria will follow the way of that state

I said Igbos will "help" to reach that goal. I didn't say only Igbos will make it up.

Obiagu1:
OnlyTruth, your argument is based on postulation and re-projection. It’s difficult for me to accept such because there has NEVER been a hint on the true population of Nigeria, not a single one, so how can we go with that? What if it fails to be as we wish the population is?  Then our problems start.

To me, I’d rather stick to what is safer till another southerner comes in and conducts another census which will be more thorough (GEJ can’t do it in his first term in office).

To be frank with you, I won’t go with such postulation. When Yar’dua became President, we all expected him to leave office in 2019, so if another Northerner completes that time, I don’t care provided southern rule is guaranteed.

So, because Nigeria's demographics have remained a closely guarded secret to the rest of us, a Nigerian president cannot act based on such information?
He doesn't have to reveal the population figures. All he needs to do is conduct a free and fair elections.
I know it can be hard for Nigerians to imagine this scenario because they are used to fake population figures. But, Jonathan doesn't need to convince anyone. Provided the elections are true representation of the Nigerian population which BTW the international community will be convinced of (in case of trouble), he is safe.

^
Note that in that elections, all he needs is simple majority plus 25% in 2/3rds of the states in Nigeria. Igbo support can help him meet that 25% in most states in Nigeria.

Obiagu1:
What about greed? We all know what it can do. History has shown that people have betrayed their own people.



For the population part, what if their population is really as big? All your argument collapses. Not to talk of the other smaller groups that go along with Hausa/Fulani.
Fact: Hausa/Fulani are next most populated group in every part of Nigeria after the Igbos; Holds #1 in their region.

There has never been any hint on the true population of Nigeria. GEJ should leak such figures if they exist so as to calm the North down (that is part of politics) but I really doubt he has such information.

What if he wants to prove that through a free and fair elections?

You would at least accept that almost all elections in Nigeria has been rigged, especially the post civil war ones.

Like I said before, I am deeply suspicious of obvious scenarios.

I live outside the box.  

Akainzo:
You are the one that is too damn simplistic. So if you were the Northerners, you would reveal your secret to Jonathan that the South was more populated than the North. Or has GEJ been given new set of statistics of the last census? Or has the people in the Census or Statistics office been changed to Ijaws?

And if there were no rotation or zoning, why is GEJ promising to hand over to the North in 2015 and not to another credible leader?

I can't believe what I'm reading. 

So, you think that whoever is maintaining the database from the last national ID card scheme will refuse a direct order to make it available to the minister of the interior, talk less of the President of Nigeria?

hmm, nna na wa for commentators on nairaland! 

Obiagu1:
Only Truth, I know you support GEJ but no Igbo that supports GEJ has given me an answer to this.

What will be the fate of Ndigbo and even Southern Nigerians if GEJ wins thereby putting the last nail on the coffin of rotational presidency, then after mere 4 yrs hands over to the North, who will then rule us forever because we can’t win if the presidency is not rotated?

Can we stand a perpetual northern rule with its associated bias towards the place/state/region of origin of the ruler?

Maybe this will be how you convinced me to support GEJ.

Okay, let me give it a fair shot!

Does it occur to you that maybe, just maybe the north is not as populated as we've been told throughout history?

Though this may seem a bit optimistic, but it is possible that the south is actually more populated than the north, and Jonathan knows because he has access to the true figures.

Somehow I don't believe that an educated man like Jonathan did not think about your feared scenario before declaring his interest.
Do you think he is that careless as to throw the south and his own people under the bus for ever?

Mind you that an Igboman just became the minister of the interior for the first time recently and he has access to the national ID Card data and electoral data - FACTS not fictitious ones.

Think about that for a second.

Methinks that Jonathan knows something the rest of us don't.

Your feared scenario is too simplistic, and I am deeply suspicious of simplistic scenarios!