₦airaland Forum

^^
If you don't understand this picture, please don't post here.

The picture of the ULTIMATE TRUTH.

bisiaet:
I know what I posted earlier on this issue will anger my fellow(Ibo) men I know it because we hate the truth but I dont care what anybody think the truth is what I have just said in my early post. I repeat and quote it again that "IBB has nothing to do in East and no reason for Ikemba of all people to say what he has said" I will repeat it more and more with[b] no apology and no reservation[/b].

You don't owe any of us anything. You are entitled to your opinions as the rest of us. If you are interested in the real truth, you need to spend about 6 months on political section of nairaland to read up first before posting. I did. After that, you may begin to understand people like Ikemba.

Meanwhile, it is IGBO not IBO. Thank you.

fxmaxony:
@Onlytruth, after making my unbiased point earlier in this thread  and canvassing for trashing the thread due to insult and bickering.

You released that PICS at last, I love it so much. funny indeed, tell me the truth, was it doctored?

No my brother, the picture is REAL. That picture explains Nigeria from 1970 till date. I laugh at some Nigerians here who are so deluded.
Those guys own Nigeria, and they do so because of conspiracy and treachery.

Within a space of two week, Obasanjo had advised Jonathan not to run and to run for presidency next year.
The guy (OBJ) reversed himself within 2 weeks!
Doesn't that tell you something? A game is being played (the same you see in this picture).
Ojukwu knows and understands that game (though he is not a participant in it, we lost the war remember?).

These are the OWNERS of Nigeria. All these young folks making noise here are deluded.  

Y'know, people are erroneously expecting a man like Ojukwu to tow the line of social critics and political activists. That is where they completely miss the point and miss the whole essence of the discourse.

Ojukwu is a leader of an peculiar group of people in Nigeria. Peculiar in the sense that despite the courage, resourcefulness, resources (human and natural), the Igbo continue to be conspired against in Nigeria. The most stoopid thing for an Ojukwu to do is to indulge people who scheme to keep the Igbo in our current state in Nigeria.

So, IBB may be the boogieman to the Yoruba, but he may be the savior to the Igbo. I don't expect pedestrians to understand.  

^^^
Please notice that Ojukwu or any other Igbo is NOT in that picture. Those are the owners of Nigeria, and if one of them want to come back to power, who is Ojukwu to say no?

Meanwhile, here is the ultimate TRUTH about Nigeria.

(Assuming Ojukwu really gave his support to IBB)

This is just to put things into proper perspective.

Ojukwu is the quintessential Igbo leader. He says things which are for the consumption of the "initiated", his words are not for pedestrians! In fact, you need someone properly trained in the art to decode Ojukwu's language (both spoken and unspoken). He knows IBB and knows what Igbo want in Nigeria.

The question is this: Does anyone think that Ojukwu will support anyone who has not, and will not deliver on Igbo interest in Nigeria?

The bigger fool is the person who thinks that Ojukwu will mortgage Igbo interest for any reason. There are NO better or more trustworthy Igbo leader anywhere else. Uwazuruike and (maybe Peter Obi) are still cutting their teeth in integrity. They will replace the great Ikemba one day.

I stand behind my leader.

Ikechukwu Uche is conspicuously missing from that list. He is the deadliest striker in Super Eagles. Let's pray he is fit to play, else we are stuck with the nations cup squad.

ChinenyeN:
So what if other Igbo don't want a state of their own? It doesn't affect Ngwa's desire because the two don't share the sam consciousness. If they don't want, that's their business.

Actually, now that we've seen what state creation did to the old east and made even Igbo folks in rivers state to distance from the rest of us, we understand it more now. It is not good.

So, NO, it is not "their" business. It is all of "our" collective business.
Like I said, more states will be created in Nigeria (I don't know about Ngwa though ).
I am as certain of that as I am of the fact that Nigeria will never develop into a first world country.

@ChinenyeN

Believe me, I am a prouder Nnewi man than you can ever be a proud Ngwa man. I have every reason to be. But my loyalty lie with Igbo.
I guess I'm following in the footsteps of certain folks from my town -Chief Z.C Obi of the defunct Igbo State Union, Emeka Oduemgwu Ojukwu (self evident), Okonkwo Kano of the 50s and 60s, Abyssinia Akwaeke Nwafor Orizu and contemporary Dr Dozie Ikedife and the rest of them. My people have always been pan Igbo. I don't think that would ever stop.

ChinenyeN:
Exactly my thoughts and understanding, sjeezy8.

lol! You are agreeing with this comic character.
Now I know you are up to no good.
No, we aren't really saying the same thing. I have my kindred, clan, sub-village, village, town, ethnic group(Igbo), state (Anambra) and Nigeria.
What is so hard for you to understand? How many Igbos have you seen here agitating for a state for their own clan or even town? What you want is inherently fractious and has no end in sight. It is evil and can destroy Igboland.

sjeezy8:
youre an idiot

we know you be real fool. I know Obj was voted in because that was what Nigeria needed at the time- so they had no choice. as both candidates were yoruba.

who would anyone non yoruba person vote for.

Olufalae- who was apart of Awolowos party or Obasanjo who was president before and could provide stability.

I was conveniently ignoring you slowpoke 'cos I know you are incapable of using your head even if to save your life. How can you do it when your head is far up your dirty tribal marked Azz!

OBJ stole elections in the south east. He should stop speaking from both sides of his fat ugly mouth.
"Jonathan contest, Jonathan don't contest". One of these days he will push Jonathan to his death.
Meanwhile go back to your mental home.
Ignored forthwith.

ChinenyeN:
Onlytruth, simply answer the question. Are states solely required to fund themselves? Yes or no?

In Nigeria, NO of course, which is why we are arguing, right?
I know you want to keep this going (don't think I don't see your stratagem here , I just want to indulge you), I gat other things to do though. Here is a summary of my points:

(1) State creation in Nigeria originated as a WAR STRATEGY to weaken the East. It worked wonders and destroyed not just the East but Nigeria.
(2) State creation is now proliferated and will continue because none of the states are required to be self sustaining
(3) State creation will continue as long as Nigeria has oil.

That is why Nigeria is a poor country today. The system is only consuming and not creating. It is an unfortunate system.

^^^
That is why I tied in autarky to merit based state creation. In a land of sane people, you would not create a state that cannot fund itself.

ChinenyeN:
What about my question as to whether or not states are required to soley fund themselves? Mind answering that?

You should know that I am against state creation because it destroys something bigger and better. We can keep creating states and running to Abuja for funds, but don't cry when your child cannot speak Igbo (or Ngwa if you like), because he who pays the piper dictates the tunes.
I know Nigerians are mostly lazy and cannot think of survival without Abuja hand outs, but I would rather struggle on my own without those hand outs, but retain something bigger and more precious. Today, some of the conducts of politicians in the south east is so arcane and weird. You find folks behaving like Hausa (eat today and don't worry about tomorrow ).
Life is much much much more than money and handouts.
That other people are doing it does not mean the Igbo must do it too.

sjeezy8:
sharrap fool
ooo please so you saw hausas in igboland snatching ballot boxes in 1999? The fact is that igbo supported Obj solely on the fact they THOUGHT the next president would be ZONED TO THE SE. and they were wrong!

You are really an irredeemable idiot. So, you need Hausa people to come down to SE to snatch boxes before you believe that rigging occurred. I'm sure you've never heard about police and army moving ballot boxes and rigging elections, which is why the north is afraid of a Jonathan candidacy in next years elections. Jonathan does not need to win fairly. He can use the "power of incumbency" to win.

OBJ was rigged in by Abdusalami Abubakar (aided by IBB) in 1999. He carried on himself in 2003.
So, you SHARAP.

sjeezy8:
the FG can create how many states they want and can even have resource control it still doessnt change the demographics of Nigeria.

whether resource control or not there will be people who want their own state even if it is TERRIBLE.

If FG implement full resource control, about 70% of current states in Nigeria will die a natural death. They would have to merge or die off.

ChinenyeN:
Hold on, Onlytruth, you didn't answer my question. Am I not entitled, as an Igbo, to identity with and be identified by my own group consciousness?

I thought I answered that already by highlighting my Nnewi affinity and pride. Every Igbo group is conscious of itself. What we are saying is that the larger Igbo group serves us better. Other ethnic groups in Nigeria (Yoruba for instance) have the same sub groups and sub group "consciousness", but you don't see them here trying to create separate ethnic group out of the bigger Yoruba group. Frankly I don't know of any ethnic group that can claim single consciousness without going out of their ways to achieve it through dint of hard work.

ChinenyeN:
States are the only option. It's the closest thing to resource control.

Actually, in the Nigerian context, they are OPPOSITE.
If any new state creation come with a requirement that the new state fund itself completely independent of the FG, Ngwa will not get a state ever. You know that.

Implement resource control today and state creation agitations will die a natural death.

Crude Oil:
Gowon started all these states creation mess. He ruined this country in a bid to destabilize the eastern region.

Spot on bro!

I cannot say more than that!

Some folks here don't even know the origin of state creation and its true intent.

ChinenyeN:
Okay, so we're in agreement then. There should be no reason why you all should throw a hissy fit because I don't see my identity as being synonymous with yours.

As for making it in Nigeria, we can do that without forceful "oneness". Treat our collective "Igbo identities" as a multi-group agreement (as it should be), rather than a one-group initiative (forced annexation), and I can almost guarantee you that things would be a lot smoother.

That is exactly what the Ralph Uwechue-led Ohanaeze Ndiigbo is trying to achieve. In his first days in office, Uwechue was really frustrated by the type of Igbo leadership in Ohanaeze. He almost lamented that the organization is a toothless bulldog unlike the Arewa. I'm sure he would have come to terms with what Ohanaeze is by now.

We will eventually get that "oneness" (we have to ), it doesn't have to be by force and it will likely not be by force. It will happen nevertheless. If Ohanaeze can't step up to the plate, MASSOB is already far along that line.
So Igbo unity is inevitable. MASSOB is even unifying the whole East sef

I would go one step to predict that as long as Nigeria continues to create more states, Nigeria would NEVER implement resource control.

State creation is an indirect war against resource control.

ChinenyeN:
You all are turning self-identification, and a people's sense of true peoplehood into a crime. You all are really fighting hard to create the impression that Igbo identity (as we know it) has always been, when in fact it never was, and it barely is today. An honest league of wishful thinkers. We all know that we cannot operate as one (don't try to lie about this. Even non-Igbo are very familiar with our decentralized nature). Why then is it so difficult for you all to compromise, and allow us to operate as a multi-group federation, knowing that a one-identity thing just won't work for us?

The truth is that we do not see each other as one and the same. Onlytruth, EzeUche, and I have all given examples, to that effect, and many more examples abound. That is the only truth, in this issue. That is the reality of the situation.

That said, Andre, I haven't turned my back on anything. You all (except Abadaba and Abagworo) are the ones acting on sentiment, over-simplifyig (or over-complicating, whichever applies) and misunderstanding my stance on the issue. Like I stated before, we Ngwa are proud Igbo, but we are Ngwa, FIRST and FOREMOST. Why is that so difficult for you all to grasp?

Ok, I'm back to serious talks (I was derailed by EzeUche a while ago).

I think you have really missed -( I suspect deliberately) the single consistent message from other Igbo folks here who suspect your true motives.That message is that Igbo is Igbo, whether Ngwa or Nnewi.
Do you think other Igbos here are not FIRST and FOREMOST from their own Igbo subgroups and clans?lmao!
Do you think I would surrender my Nnewi or Anaedo identity anytime soon, or do you think the Ngwa are prouder than Nnewi people?
We embrace the larger Igbo because it MAKES SENSE to know and identify with all those who share our language and culture. I can't think of any other reasons why we need one Igbo identity.
Today, after fighting a brutal civil war, the most brainless thing for any group to do in Igboland is to create more and more fractions. Soon, families will seek "autonomous community" status. We fought that to a standstill in my town. Some of the sub-villages (villages within the four major villages) are bigger than many autonomous communities in Imo and Abia, yet we have ONE Igwe for the whole of Nnewi and the seat is strictly hereditary. Even Onitsha can't boast of that.
My point is that the more you argue your point, the more you sound redundant and then increase the suspicion of your true motives. You are not saying anything new. We've heard all of that before.
The Biafran war brought all Igbo groups together as one group for the first time. We've tasted that common identity and it is good. The cat is out of the bag!
We don't want to go back to the stone ages of infinitesimal villages or clans without the power to fend of external aggressors.

Seriously answer me this though. . . As an Igbo (considering our HIGHLY decentralized nature), am I not entitled to identify with, and to be identified by my own group consciousness? (It's a serious question) because, if nothing else, it is actually amongst the most "Igbo" thing to do. So why are you all fighting so hard against it?

Our decentralized nature is not good if we want to survive in Nigeria, and by the way it is NOT chiseled on iron. Under Biafra, even non-Igbos created and identified with one identity. Though Ojukwu is from Anambra, to this day, he still enjoys love and loyalty in ALL parts of Igboland. You may not believe it, but if the federal government stays away from internal Igbo politics, we can actually create one identity and ensure common values like we had before and during the civil war. Which is why state creation is a war strategy. States will be created because it serves a strategic goal -it divides people. Which is manifested in our argument and disagreements on this thread. If you can pause and actually think, you would realize that state creation is NOT a good thing even for the Igbo subgroup in Ngwa land.

EzeUche:
I am pretty sure my Aro people would have dealt with the people of Nnewi if the British did not penetrate Igboland. For all we know, the Aro would have unified the Igbo under one unified nation along with the Ibibio and the Annang. Sometimes I get disgusted with the British because they interfered with Aro affairs.

And I am pretty sure that the Ngwa would not have been able to resist the Aro onslaught for too long. They may have repelled some of our penetration into Ngwaland but that would not have lasted that long. Maybe we should of called on our warrior allies from Ohafia to deal with the Ngwa.

Anything could have happened.
I know for instance that my people had slave "strongholds" or "outposts" in every town from Nnewi all the way to Arochukwu. Till today, there are still people who speak my type of dialect in Imo and Abia states-they were Nnewi warriors and taskmen sent there from Nnewi to ensure smooth trading route. We were mainly into slave trade-(y'know, capturing insubordinate folks and selling them off unfortunately ), but still powerful, which explains the size of my town (both in land mass and population). I don't know how many single towns are bigger than Nnewi (in landmass and population) in Igboland. That is a result of the action of one man called "Eze a agha" (the king who loved wars). So, the Aro was our ally in crime if you like.
Those were the days things could have solved themselves. The Ngwa could have been all sold out by the Nnewi to the Aro. ROTFLMAO!

On a serious note, all these are silly talks. Any clan or group that wants a state should fund it. If you can't fund it, then shut up!
All these "plate in hand to Abuja" state creations should cease!

ChinenyeN:
We're trying to educate each other. You all just want to wishfully think (making a very good attempt at establishing what never was), and I just want to be realistic about things, as they are now.

You should be thanking your stars for the European intrusion into Igboland the time they did, because if not for that intrusion, one igbo group would have eventually conquered the rest and we won't be having this conversation. Just at the very moment my village (clan) in Nnewi forcefully unified Nnewi and created one "federal" government (One Igwe and four Obis each for each village inside "Anaedo-Nnewi" the British were entering to save other groups around Nnewi from forced unification. If the British didn't show up, who knows which towns, clans or groups we would have today in Igboland?
So ChinenyeN, like we say in my town "eat beef as wastefully as you wish, your father is a cattle farmer!".

Meanwhile stop derailing this thread with your Ngwa activism. There is a tribalism section on nairaland
This thread is about state creation, and if you can prove that Ngwa land can raise N10 billion monthly without running to Abuja, you can have your Ngwa state.

ezeagu:
The only thing that would suit Igboland (I don't know about other nations) is a sort of system like the shires of England. Igbo people cannot do the one man ruling thing, it's not in their nature and we can see the problem it is causing in this thread alone.

I don't think anyone is calling for that type of a thing. What I'm calling for is a system like we had before, where you had one regional government that was strong enough to take on huge projects and fund big things like Trans Amadi industrial layout in Port Harcourt (from Enugu). We had "Urban Councils" then, and they were able to provide  detailed services like sanitary inspections and welfare services.

Each Urban Councils were more efficient than the states we have today. We can have councils for as many as are able to prove relevance. This way, we can preserve our language and culture which are both dying off in the cacophony and Tower of Babel that is Nigeria. Then, these Ngwa militants activists can have their council with a close monitoring from the regional government to keep them in line.

If Biafra had succeeded, we could have built that nation with sanity even with our minority groups. Sanity is the only thing lacking in Nigeria, and sanity is all you need to succeed. If there is sanity in Nigeria, no one will be asking for a new state in an impoverished country with millions of unemployed. They are about to create new fiefdoms for local warlords and thieves! 

006:
ChinenyeN, you seem unintelligent to me. After ezeagu gave you the definition of ethnic group and tribe, you still can't comprehend it. Let me post it again for you to cram.

I thought I was the only who noticed. I can only suspect that the Ngwa is up to no good and must be stopped. Even when Enugu state was created, the "WAWA" people never argued their distinctness or uniqueness as fervently as these Ngwa goons fellas are doing here. I suspect something very sinister and the larger Igbo group must stop this Ngwa buttshiot.

Nigeria is really terribly constituted, because if that were not the case, all these fly by night state creation agitations would not exist.

Michael Iheonukara Okpara was able to run the affairs of the Whole East (from Enugu) and brought pipe borne water into my village in the 60s long before I was born. Today -after 8 states have been carved out of it, there are no pipe borne water in ANY of the fragments of the old East.

Since we've passed that era, the only remaining sensible option is resource control. If you can find enough money to run a state without running to the federal government for handouts, we give you a state. If not, go back and learn to work hard first and stop eying other peoples property to corner in your new state.

If we had Biafra, all these nonsense would not be happening. Every new idiocy in Nigeria provides more reason  that country should not exist. For Nigeria to survive as one, merge all of these silly states into one viable and autarkic federation unit in each zone. If we do that, sanity will return. 

The day they removed Soludo and replaced him with Sanusi, I told whoever cared to listen that we were back to square one.
Frankly, it would be a good thing for the north to stop manning highly technical and intellectual positions in Nigeria. The manpower is simply not there in the north. Even if you find one of such talent, you find about 50 in the south.
Why can't Nigeria function based on merit? What did Soludo do wrong as CBN boss?
Alan Greenspan was the US Federal Reserve Chairman for many years. Bernanke is continuing in that tradition. Both of them are Jews! Why can't Nigeria hand over leadership of highly technical things to whoever is most skilled and qualified in Nigeria?
Ernest Ndukwe revolutionized cell phone industry in Nigeria. He is retiring now. I wonder who they will replace him with.
Highly technical things cannot be run on a turn by turn basis. Let the BEST handle it.

ChinenyeN:
006, So since you recognize my Ngwa identity, then what is the problem? As for your "village capital" statement, funny. It just goes to show your resentment for Aba state. As for where we Ngwa come from, it is definitely not Nri (if you're wondering), and there are currently two theories, one involving Umunneoha in Owere.

As for what we stand to gain, I've said it over and over again, in this discourse. If you truly care to know, then read through my previous posts in this topic. If you refuse, then I know you're not serious.

Onlytruth, I only sound this way to you because you simply don't agree with where I'm coming from. In your perfect Igbo world, you equate related lexicon and similar culture to same identity (a view so far off from reality). Me, I have a different, less wishful understanding of it all. You think I'm warped, because you refuse to actually try to understand and consider what I'm saying.

I've been around long enough to know that when someone starts hacking out unnecessary word craft, anyone interested in truth should guard his loins!

Bottom line is that we are both Igbo.   Now that's simple and refreshing.