₦airaland Forum

The much I have gleaned show me that without the large Christian population in Nigeria, and if Nigeria does not suppress fundamentalist Islam (the type that organize mass murder for simple irritations as burning of a quoran which largely would be ignored in a Turkey or a Malaysia), then Nigeria will depend on government handout more, innovate less, can never export much, hence remain poor.

The article also states that fundamentalist Muslims (the type we have in Nigeria) stuggle to accept the leadership by non-Muslims. That is what we have seen in the North since Obasanjo and now Jonathan.

The question then is this:

Which rational Nigerian non-Muslim would share this worldview with Nigerian Muslims, and accept that it is normal that tiny Finland should export more than all Arab countries combined?

I know a whole lot of Nigerians can NEVER understand or accept such.

The next question is, for how long can Nigerian groups continue to stay in such a state of arrested development?

Then, coming to Nigeria, take a careful look at how some (Muslims ) feel that they own the presidency of Nigeria and take up arms anytime they feel that it has been taken from them.
But the most powerful information come from the over dependence on government by these oil rich Arab countries (copied by Nigerian Muslims of course) where the Federal government used to even fund Islamic pilgrimages. Today, within Nigeria, the most backward states in terms of human development are in the "core North" (core Muslim states).

That is why the following comment quote is also powerful:

Saracens at the Gates wrote:

The industrial exports of all the 22 Arab League countries combined is less than Finland.
............................

Not only are the combined exports of these Muslim nations less than that of sparsely-populated Finland, they are less than that of a single Finnish company--Nokia.

more:

The aggregate total of translated books from the Al- Ma’moon era to the present day amounts to 10,000 books - equivalent to what Spain translates in a single year (Shawki Galal, in Arabic, 1999, 87)
.................................

Yes--there are more books tranlated into Spanish in a single year than have been translated into Arabic in *a thousand years*. This is a stunning statistic.

In the past few decades we have seen quite a number of the world's nations pull themselves out of third-world misery. Taiwan, South Korea, Thailand (well, the northern, non-Muslim part of the country, in any case), numerous former Communist states such as the Czech Republic, Poland, and the Baltic states.

Even though the history and culture of these states is quite different, all have followed fairly similar paths. Allowing entrepreurship, barring arbitrary seizures, instituting the rule of law. Full democracy and a decent educational system help.

These are all things that Islam discourages. [size=14pt]Generally, the most nearly successful Muslim states (none are truly successful) are those with the least Islam. This includes states with a large non-Islamic population--like Indonesia, India, Malaysia and Lebanon--or states with either a weak Islamic imperitive--such as Indonesia--or that have actively supressed Islam, such as Turkey.[/size]

Not surprisingly, every single one of these states are under increasing pressure from hard-line Islam. Most Muslim countries have long since expelled their Jewish populations, and are now terrorizing and pushing out Christians and other non-Muslims.

Palestine, the birthplace of Christianity, now has only a tiny Christian population. Christians were a majority in Lebanon as recently at the 1930s, now they may be as small as 25% of the population. Egypt is terrorizing and marginalizing the Copts. Indonesia is pushing out the Chinese, some of whom have lived there for centuries, and parts of northern and western India have become increasingly hostile to Hindus.

Along with a widening embrace of fundamentalist Islam and the institution of Shari'ah law that goes with it, I think it is likely that, apart from oil revenue, that Muslim countries are less likely than ever to pull themselves out of poverty and ignorance.

I stumbled upon a shocking statistic (a figure put forward by a Prof Lewis, an emeritus professor at Stanford University), and I decided to research it a little.
He alleged that the total combined non-oil exports of all Arab countries amounted to less than that of Finland.
In other words, if the Arab countries ran out of oil, then all of them would have exported less than Finland.

The first article I came upon is the one below. Read, reflect and then apply it to Nigeria (from 1970 till date) and come to an understanding why Nigeria has not met with expectations, and why Nigeria should really never be one. Enjoy!



George Walden says that Kenneth Pollack asserts this: "Lack of prosperity, not Islam, tends to explain the lower rates of democracy among predominantly Muslim countries.”

How true.

Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates (Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Sharjah, et al.), Qatar, Libya, and the other six Muslim states, or states where Muslims run things, that are members of OPEC, and thus the beneficiaries, since 1973 alone, of more than ten trillion dollars in oil revenues, are none of them democracies -- and now we all know why. It's their "lack of prosperity."

So how shall we make Saudi Arabia prosperous, given its "lack of prosperity"? And Kuwait? And the U.A.E.? And Qatar? And all the other Muslim states in OPEC? Was Iran more dangerous when it had no oil wealth, or when it acquired great oil wealth and became unhinged by that oil wealth, and at the same time, with that oil wealth became able to acquire the kind of weapons and power it is now acquiring?

Do we want "prosperity" for the Muslim world? Is that the key? What, besides the more than ten trillion dollars that constitute the largest transfer of wealth in human history, do they need? What, aside from the billions we Infidels give to all the Muslim states that don't have oil wealth, could we be doing? What is it the Pollacks of this world want Infidels to do? Continually to keep Muslims prosperous, despite their own, Islam-inculcated inshallah-fatalism, with our money, lest they become....well, you know....extremists?

What utter nonsense. Top to bottom. What a dope.

The lack of prosperity in the Muslim lands that do not have oil is explained by Islam itself. It is Islam that encourages the habit of mental submission, and by extension, the habit of submission to The Ruler, [size=14pt]as long as the ruler is a Muslim[/size]. It is Islam that encourages inshallah-fatalism. And both of these have economic consequences. The first, the habit of mental submission, the discouraging or punishing of free and skeptical inquiry (beginning with any "free and skeptical inquiry" about Islam), leads to an absence of entrepreneurial flair and a deep reliance on manna or handouts from the state. The recent reports about the failure of a "free market" to develop in Iraq, and the enlargement of the state-owned parts of the economy, despite the huge and expensive efforts of the Americans, should not come as a surprise. It was inevitable. In the oil-rich states, the money comes from the government. The whole effort is to make sure that your sect or tribe or family manages either to seize control, for that sect, that tribe, or that family, or failing that, manages to ingratiate itself with that sect, that tribe, or that family. The royal road to riches in the Muslim Middle East? Ask the Al-Saud, the As-Sabah, the Al-Thani, the Al-Maktoum, and all the others, with their courtiers ("You Know Me, Al" is their favorite story) and hangers-on and candying spaniels at court.

As for inshallah-fatalism, why try very very hard when, in the end, every fiber in your individual or collective being tells you that, in the end, it's all up to Allah, and he will intervene, quite inexplicably and suddenly, whenever he wants. Why try to create or accumulate wealth in societies suffused with Islam which, in any case, are subject to constant upheaval? There is constant jockeying for position in order to obtain more wealth -- such as the oil wealth available, so much more abundant than anything the Arabs themselves could possibly make. And in any case they don't try. They rely on millions of foreign, mostly Infidel, workers.

And in those Muslim-dominated lands that forgot to be born with oil and gas reserves, the Infidels -- not fellow members of the Umma -- have somehow gotten into the bad habit of shelling out tens and by now hundreds of billions for those Muslims, in Egypt, Pakistan, Jordan, the so-called "Palestinian" territories (Arab-occupied Gaza and the "West Bank". ), and anywhere else that such Muslims can be found. Infidel donors pledged two billion dollars a few weeks ago for Kosovo.

Villiers de l'Isle-Adam's famous phrase has been transformed for a new application: "As for work, our Infidels will do that for us."

Pollack claims that "lack of prosperity" explains the violence and aggression and threats emanating from the Muslim lands. No. "Lack of prosperity" comes from the same source that, entirely independently, explains the violence and aggression and threats against Infidels, and emanating from Muslim lands (and from Muslims living, often quite comfortably, and certainly far more comfortably than they did in the Muslim lands from which they came, deep within the Infidel lands of Western Europe).

That source is Islam. And that is what the bland unimaginative thoroughly-bureaucratic in thought, word, and deed, kenneth-pollacks of this world cannot possibly begin, or allow themselves to attempt to begin, to understand.


http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/08/fitzgerald-lack-of-prosperity-in-the-islamic-world.html

I'm very proud that this project was initiated by one Anambra governor, was invested in, nurtured and worked on by at least two more subsequent governors before current governor Peter Obi. It was not discarded out of jealousy by subsequent governors as is usually the case in Nigeria.

Anambra remains the light of the nation. I'm very proud.

Na wa o. How did this thread get to 8 pages? Nigerians lack basic common sense! This issue isn't even worth mentioning.
Assuming for example that the oil is found EQUALLY in 6 states (let me exaggerate for emphasis), and ONE state decides to invest in and develop the portion in her own corner, why should any human with brains anywhere raise a voice about it? Is anyone stopping the other states from investing and developing their own portion (assuming there is oil there) ?

I like Kogi people and they have been good to Igbo people. I can only assume that this nonsense is coming from the usual devilish corners in the Nigerian nation.

Shameless i.diots.

FSU: I think Igbos should suspend any intention to contest in 2015 and support Jonathan, on the condition that the airport and Niger bridge are completed. After all, it is known that Nigerian presidents don't do stuff for their people. An Igbo president may not solve the Igbo problem:lack of befitting federal presence.

I generally agree provided he is CURRENTLY working on them before 2015. I personally believe that he can deliver Enugu international airport fully functioning before 2014.
We can hold onto that and support him again in 2015.

FSU: Correct. But how do you make the foreign airlines to patronize an international airport other than

(1) persuading them to use the airport, employing some govt fiat/regulation
(2) Sharing the routes among the airlines, so some can use the new airport while other continue with other airports
(3) informing fliers from the area, for whom the airport was built, to patronize the airport thereby indirectly forcing the planes to fly there

Yes you are correct my brother. I also think that if the airport runway and terminal are completed, foreign airlines will start to extend their routes to it. I know that they have been receiving a barrage of phone calls and the like demanding this route, but they can't build the airport by themselves.

So, the FG should complete work on it speedily.

Freewilly: He looks very happy, comfortable and relaxed to be around the Igbos. Anyways who won't, Igbo are very welcoming people. Congratulations to Anambra on their new River Port.

Yes, we take him as one of us. Just look at him. His entire body language says something like "I'm home!".

Jona na awa man.

The biggest expose of this lie is the fact that those who allege being dominated by Igbo ALWAYS threaten war whenever Igbo talk about secession. That threat will soon stop when such people realize that Igbo are not fazed anymore by such talk.
It does not make sense that you accuse someone of dominating you, but you cling to the same person for life! If he dominates you to your utmost discomfort or dislike, help him leave or don't stop him when he wants to leave the federation. Simple and short.

Else, your accusation of being dominated is a FAT LIE.

Here I stand.

pazienza: The fact that we own 70% of abuja today,shows that whatever we had in ph pre 1970,we acquired by shear hardwork. It's not that the minorities were not aware of this,i don't believe they were deceived by the north,i want to believe that it was their envy, jealousy and laziness that consumed them,the north just gave them fuel to increase the inferno.

Abuja is a TYPICAL example; almost a contemporary depiction of what happened in the past. You cannot change the nature of a people -particularly a hard work/reward anticipation nature. It can NEVER happen. If Nigeria continues as one nation, there is a very good chance that the hardest working citizens will corner the majority of Nigerian wealth. That is what happens in developed countries; hardworkers corner more wealth. It has nothing to do with tribe or ethnicity. But in Africa, devious and dark minds try their darndest to twist and portray this as some kind of evil achievement/cheating.

Abagworo: I corroborate with Onlytruth anyway. The abandoned property issue in Port Harcourt for example was used to cause disaffection between Igbos and their brothers from Okrika and backed with a lie that an "Igbo" Bank ACB sponsored Igbos to buy up land at the expense of the indigent Okrikans. While it might be true for the political class, most of the land confiscated were owned by those who had no links to the bank and bought them out of their sweat. The FG used that to twist the loyalty of the minorities to the Biafra struggle and a lot of them bought into it and even believed it till this day.

This is a typical example of what I've been trying to say. I am happy that with the explosion of information and knowledge which is the product of the internet age, truth will rise from the ashes like the great phoenix.

pazienza: Remove federal character and quota system,enthrone merit,and see what happens. Nigeria in her desperate attempt to cage the igbo spirit,caged herself.

Spot on bro.

ndu_chucks: Goodness gracious!!! Olopa ewo n'tepe. (Policeman, na catch dem say make you catch lawless people, which one be curses na?) dan tselewa

ndu_chucks you be real goat. You know say dis kain curse de work pass olopa baton.
Dan iska kawai.

I will return when fellow humans show up.

Signed,

Onlytruth

And because I know that you feed off Igbo masculine attention, I will starve you of that henceforth.


IGNORED.

^^
What idea have you added to this topic? Oh I know, "go back to your governors. . . blah".
Would a primary school kid contribute a more brilliant idea than yours? Duh!

Dude get off my thread. Asswipe.

pazienza: Nigeria want to be like america,yet they practice federal character. Maybe,they are mentally retarded afterall.

Thanks!

Nigeria is either a mentally retarded country or the greatest lie in the history of man.

Kingofass

Yours is a very sad (you won't know this because all your posts show lack of soul) life indeed! Notice that since this thread started, your FIRST POST was to commit ad hominem. It is like you can NEVER pull logic, substance, ideas or real additive opinion from your poor soul. All you do on this forum is to go around like a b,itch in heat seeking male attention.
Can you survive for ONE DAY without a dose of Igbo masculine attention? Obviously not.
Your allegation that you are 20 years younger also shows a pathetic "mother.fukcer" mindset. You are a TYPICAL "mo.ther.fuc.cker" -go and read up where that term comes from.
My 9 year old couson is more matured than you, because he ALWAYS adds to topics. No, not you!

My 9 year old couson is older than your father.

Ewu Yoruba.

mekuslogan: Sure. there is this man in Abia called Raegan Ufomba who just finished his cement plant of 1.1 trillion metric tons. Unfortunately he was not allowed to build it in his state due to local politics, so he took it to Calabar. Anyways, na we we, and am sure many of his employees will be Igbos; we need to create develeop our land and by so doing create employment, reduce crime and the movement to other parts of Nigeria, especially outside the Old East.

It has remained my personal belief that the destiny of OLD EAST lies in the hands of all of us.
The Igbo in particular can single handedly bring MASSIVE development in the East that will shift Nigeria's economy eastwards.
With Jona in office, we can do a whole lot.

Jona na awa man!

I still wonder how decent humans live in that city. Upon landing in Lagos, all one sees instantly is pure insanity.
Tufiakwaaaaaaaa!

^^
All a.s.swipes and old men in dipers should steer clear of this thread.

@Topic

Africa is a generally backward continent, and the easiest way to find out why is to study Nigeria (perhaps the most naturally endowed country in Africa). Nigeria remains (and will remain) a failed state because merit is twisted, repackaged and represented as "domination".

mekuslogan: Hopefully, the SE will soon have more ''mobile executives'' flying abroad 3-4 times a week from Alaigbo

My brother I can't wait for that! There are MANY of our people who have "shevel ready ideas" that international investors are waiting to pounce upon.
Our greatest resource is OUR PEOPLE.

mekuslogan: They need to complete the Enugu airport ASAP. That, and the River port will give the added boost that the SE requires. Kudos to Anambra, Alaigbo, to GEJ, and the individuals whose establishments were inaugurated today

Bros you are spot on. Little by little, we shall possess our possession in Nigeria. Amen!

Jona na awa man!

Josboy2: All dis massob members neva see war.Abeg mek dem ask their old men wey see to tell dem the cost.They think say war na beans.

You mean the type of war were Fulani is wiping you out in peaceful Nigeria. No we have not, and can NEVER see that type of war.
You will soon be wiped out by fulani.
Goat.

afrikanns: Never will i blame you cos you ve not witnessed one b4, go to your village and ask all those grapa and ma that are still alive, they will tell u the grave consequences of war, when were you even born self? If you Ibo are takin as 3rd class citizen make una jeje dey manage am, end result of war nobody dey live to narate am oooooh ibo kwenu!!!!

Obvious something about "you ibo" scares the living day light out of you.
That is why you are here threatening us with violence. Dude, go ask your father and mother what Igbo were able to do when there were not up to 100,000 Igbo outside Nigeria.
Now imagine what at least 4 million Igbos outside Nigeria today would do if you start committing genocide in Igboland again.
That is how someone with brains thinks.

cheikh: Onlytruth


@Op^^ I sincerely assumed that the topic genuinely was about "Merit" and "Nepotism" as troubling issues for us as Africans not about narrow "ethnic" jingoism(Nigeria). I am out! I don't have the strength for such "fights".

The topic is about MERIT and DOMINATION and how the former is often twisted and presented as the latter.
Sorry you misunderstood.

Bye.

Seems like some Nigerians can't get their heads out of their 1967 a.s.ses. I laugh each time I read some i.diots threatening Igbo with extinction just because we want out of Nigeria.
Wake up you goats! This is 2012. Go to Syria and Libya and find out how much arms come from government sources these days. International arms dealers are more powerful these days. So you will not enjoy monopoly of arms supply the next time around.

I don't blame you lots, I blame MASSOB for wasting a great opportunity.
Nonsense.

cheikh: @Op

I think it is the fear of the "unknown" and also "culture". We cannot deny the fact that some African cultures are inherently "Merit" conscious/predisposed than some. To talk/discus such an "emotive" subject will open one to all manner of accusations from ethnocentric/uninformed warriors to genuinely fearful persons borne out of concern for their "tiny" group/domination. "Merit" does not happen or cannot be expected in an environment where there a multiplicity of definitions of "right" and "wrong" derived from different worldviews/standards/perceptions. "Feudalists" see things differently from "Republicans" or "Independents". None is perfect nor the correct route to nirvana either hence dialogue is almost mandatorynecessary for us all to clear the "warts" in our eyes.

The truth is that all the points you raised are valid. The problem is that they are hardly applicable (IN DEED) in Nigeria. Evil is often infectious and spreads faster than good. That is why there is no evil you will not find in Nigeria, but there are tonnes of good in other countries that are conspicouously missing in Nigeria, from the most ordinary to the most sophisticated good.
Let me illustrate a little.

If a man from a tribe of 10,000 somewhere in Cross rivers state complains about being dominated by say Efik or Ibibio or Annang, or say Igala in Anambra state (a prodominantly Igbo state), your points would stand firm. But how does one explain that an Igbo man in Imo is complaining that Yoruba men are dominating him by dominating the taxi business in Owerri? How can an Hausa man in Kano complain that Igbo is dominating him by dominating textile business in Sabon gari market and similar trades?
The first example carries semblance of genuine concern, while the second examples carry clear signs of stupidity and indolence. But what happens in Nigeria is that the second group joins the first group to complain of the same thing!

Those without genuine grievance joins those whose grievance are born of indolence to complain of being dominated. That is exactly what happened in Biafra and the carpet crossing, and Ahmadu Bellos anti-Igbo worldview. Suddenly a Harold Dappa Biriye and Adaka Boro (Ijaw) joined a Murtala Muhammad (Hausa), and the Northern and some southern minorities to fight against "Igbo domination" in the civil war. Never mind that the two sides have NOTHING IN COMMON except faulse fears. As it was in 1966 (in terms of reality) so it is today. Nothing has changed!

What contemporary Nigerian history has shown, is that a huge majority of those fears were irrational, because Igbo were not dominating anybody in real sense of the word. What happened was that the Hausa lost out due to their inability to adjust to the new culture brought by the British, and because they were armed (composed of majority of lowest rank in the army), convinced and co-opted others (some of who had genuine fears, though the fears never rose to the level of genocidal hate like that nursed by Hausa) into a common hate for Igbo.

This thread was opened to bring out that fallacy and show that merit based achievements were twisted and presented as something bad in order to justify mass murder; was used to entrench a retrogressive culture, and even institutionalizing it through constitutional instrumentation by the name of "quota system" and "federal character".

Ogoni need federal character protection (some form of affirmative action), Hausa, Igbo and Yoruba DO NOT!

And I support ACN on this state police issue. In fact if I ever find out that APGA is against state police I will stop supporting APGA. I hate PDP already, so no stories there.
The state police must happen because Nigerian lives are better protected by LOCAL POLICE.

If the FG is afraid of what the state governors may do with it, then Nigerian are dead already from fear of what the FG is doing with federal police!

Here I stand!

LOL ndu_chucks has misfired again. Everybody knows that in the Nigerian system of government, the final buck stops at the President's table whenever ministers are involved. The VP may have powers to remove NCP officials (I may be wrong about this even), but MINISTERS are completely at the president's service (discretion).

Well, what do you expect from aboki like ndu_chucks who seeks cheap attention without caring whose ox is gored.

BTW I believe that Nnaji left because he did not want to be a distraction to the president's agenda.
Too many retrogrades are after the president and his transformation agenda. Nnaji understands this very well, hence his resignation. His company is even more important to him. lol
I would leave too if I were in his shoes.
Nonsense.

So, I have finally concluded that the GREATEST LIE ever told in the Nigerian nation (from amalgamation till date) is that Igbo is dominating anybody.

That is a GREAT LIE from the pit of hell, and GOD will punish any group that uses this lie to deny hardworking Igbo people their fair share of proceeds from their hard labor.

Any group or individual continuing to peddle this lie will NEVER see progress!

Isee!

Signed,

Onlytruth.

Ndu di n'eziokwu 1 of Igboland, Eze Ndigbo Nairaland.