₦airaland Forum

re@lchange:
you mean the jokes that sent adekunle packing from his day job
from a commander to a desk clerk

the jokes that fought the world for three years
they must be a really good joke.

hahaha! Bros I tire o!

But I'm more concerned that they are flooding this thread with all types of chest beating. Shouldn't they be religiously supporting Igbo people to secede from Nigeria? I saw the thread where Obiagu1 was providing evidence that Yoruba should not be in Nigeria. I have not followed his evidence much, but that is what I would do if I don't want to be in the same country with Yoruba. I would do my best to help them leave Nigeria. But that is not what we see in case of Igbo. Our accusers NEVER make case for us to leave Nigeria; they NEVER offer support to us in our bid to leave. On the contrary they try to play mind games by reminding us how they joined the forces trying to keep us in Nigeria by force.

What type of mental retardation is that?

re@lchange:
i think he is trying to point out a fallacy
you are taking him literally
he is right that most of you are unintelligent

Thank you my brother! The fallacy is obvious to any intelligent mind. You allege that someone is dominating you, yet you cling on to the person directly or indirectly. You depend on him to develop your towns; you go to the schools he built in his own side of Nigeria; you do everything you can to remind him of the last time he tried to secede (obviously with the hope that you can frighten him out of his secessionist agenda); yet you still accuse him of dominating you!

Nna I can't follow this type of a convoluted illogic.

One_Naira: What you just wrote is the said reason many Europeans deemed Africans ignorant, unable to lead themselves and unable to succeed. Which daily and sadly, Africans continue to prove them right. Instead to choose the best competent for the best jobs, Africans natural seek someone of my own ethnicity, etc. It's a damn shame.

Spot on, but the more puzzling thing is that afterwards they still complain that things don't work.
Isn't that similar to a child who insists on finishing his food today and will still wake up early the next day to start crying about the same food?
This is puzzling to say the least. This is why I question the mental health of some Africans.

So, have YOU (Mr president) abused Federal police in Nigeria? Do you realize that Nigeria has THREE tiers of government, each of which (constitutionally speaking) is supposed to function fully and separately?
If you would not admit to abusing Federal police, why then would you conclude that the states governors will abuse state police?
Do you know that some governors in Nigeria are FAR more efficient leaders than most Nigerian presidents?
So how can we trust the fed govt more than the state govt?

Oga Jona, you are on your own o on this issue. If you care about what those who voted for you want, you should expeditiously support the formation of state police at state levels. What is good for the FG goose is also good for the state gander.

bashr8: some people are afraid of change and the unknown so they prefer to retain the status quo also shady and corrupt people/politicians including those of the ethnic group that want to secced might loose out so they make sure such things never happen , t[b]he rest are just mischievous kids like we see on nairaland that dont deserve attention[/b].

Noted.

Just watch. Soon those who allege domination the most will flood this thread with all types of vituperations and lies.
The last thing they would do is answer the simple question: Why do you panic at any mention of Igbo secession? ( which BTW attracts them to ANY thread concerning Igbo secession) Believe me, I can count the number of times in one hand that I have been to a thread discussing secession of non-Igbo groups.

Search Nairaland.

Anyway back to topic.

Why do some Africans see merit based appointments as a form of domination?

bashr8: confusionist , you fought what?who are the we? when you where crying that your own land were occupied by northern soldiers, your leaders cant even go out without hiding from them.

hehe. smh.

sheyguy: Onlytruth, so did Southern Cameroun go to war to forcefully keep Igbos anywhere against their wish at any point in history? Or av they tried to discourage Igbo going outa Nigeria or Cameroun?

You only supported my position. Thank you! They seceded and joined French Cameroun (never mind what they want today). They took a RATIONAL action then.

Now, why did you fight to keep Igbos in Nigeria? Why do you still become combative anytime Igbos start talking about seceding from Nigeria?

bashr8: lol they dont see it that way , they are blinded by oil unfortunately the oils is not benefiting anyone rather it has become a curse.

I honestly don't think that this has anything to do with oil. I personally think that it would be harder for Igbo to secede after Nigeria's oil wells dried up than now.

bashr8: this is exactly what nigeria needs now.

But mention it and you will see people threatening war!

PhysicsQED: As far as I'm concerned European "tribalism" was quite significant but I think they reached a tipping point with WW2 and also got over it through the demarcation of mostly ethnically homogeneous countries. Also their tribalism is lessened by focusing on how they share more in common with each other than with the rest of the world. I guess you could say pan-whiteness mostly succeeded after enough blood had been spilled and pan-Africanism hasn't and possibly won't. When one reads about Romanians in Italy or the standoff in Belgium between the two groups or the Irish and Welsh vs. the English or "anti-Polish" sentiment in Europe, one starts to realize that if they were all put in multiethnic countries they would probably have very serious issues as well.

Exactly my point! (though in reverse). That is why I don't understand why a rational person who feels dominated and marginalized, would still go to war, or threaten war each time the "dominating group" mentions secession or wants to secede.

Isn't this a form of mental illness or retardation?

bashr8: there are somethings that one can never figure out like[b] why are most african countries soo rich yet the people are soo poor, why are we complaining of unemployment yet keep importing chinese and indian workers[/b], the list is endless. the truth is that as it stands now theres no light at the end of the tunnel , i used to think our fathers generation where the problem but our generation is even worse , maybe the next generation might have a solution.

I think the bolded words support my allegation of mental retardation or a form of insanity in parts of Africa. Notice that these are not obtainable in ALL parts of Africa; just parts. Painfully though, it seems to be more prevalent in strategic African countries like Nigeria.

bashr8: without federal character some sections of the country will not be able to enroll into higher institutions therefore wont be able to qualify for job,political offices etc.

Would you say that "federal character" is serving Nigeria well in things like science/technology,innovation and growth of a modern economy?
Here in US, people are coming from India and China to lead science projects; but in Nigeria, even Nigerians are excluded because of their tribe or state of origin etc.
The irony is that we still complain that things are not working in Nigeria. lol

bashr8: so you know that google chap? you sure say i no sabi you for real life.

You fit sabi me o.
Na small world bros me.

PhysicsQED: Exactly. You're not wrong.

Now why then did your post to me only dwell only one side of the story - my contention that those making the accusations are not always just talking nonsense? I didn't see any comment that suggested that you saw how I was agreeing with you - that those who want their ethnic kinsmen to always be in positions of power or influence at the expense of merit are practicing nepotism. Maybe you got that meaning, but I didn't see that in your posts.

If you got the second meaning, then why do you think that I "have no logical basis to continue supporting my position" when my position even agrees with yours, just that I also think that those accused of nepotism are not always blameless? I wasn't even talking in the context of Biafra or the 60s but in Africa in general.

To give an example of what I'm talking about, I read an article a while back where the Binis were accused of "dominating" the present Edo state because of their population in the state.

If a smaller group in the state wanted more autonomy so that their politicians, who might be just as good or even much better at governing in general, could have more direct control over the improving the lives of their people without so much emphasis being placed on one area of the state at the expense of their area and others, would they be wrong in alleging marginalization? Would they really be talking nonsense?

I hope you didn't miss where I said that Europeans and other first world countries love progress more than they hate the next tribe, hence they really don't care much about who is leading a project provided the project is delivered and working well. Then I wondered why Africans (who have fought far less inter tribal wars than Europeans) tend to be stuck on tribe, and then in a bizarre logic still cling on the group they accuse of dominating them.

Igbo say that you don't tell a grown man to get out of the sun.

Why did some of those who cried most about being dominated still go to war to bring the dominating group back into Nigeria?
Makes no damn sense one bit.

Also the second leg of my question is why the so called "dominated groups" are always fighting to keep the "dominating group" in Nigeria?
Makes no damn sense.

When our fathers felt that the British were dominating them, they seceded from Britain. Nigeria seceded from Britain in 1960 and the British didn't go to war to stop Nigeria's secession. Why should Nigeria go to war against say Igboland (Biafra carved from Igboland only)? Why would any Nigerian fight to keep Igbo in Nigeria? This logically seems to confuse not quite a few Nigerians.
That is why I allege mental retardation.

PhysicsQED: What is my position?

Did you even ask me what my position is before you started ranting?

I insist that you only read my comment one way, and still haven't got the other meaning of it, and yet you continue with the spiels.

Your position is that there are two side of the story isn't it: those on the giving and those on the receiving sides. Am I wrong about that?

To elaborate, Europe has more uni-ethnic nations than Africa.

PhysicsQED: I think you have a deep misunderstanding of some of the history you've read, but whatever. I initially thought the purpose of this thread was to actually have a real discussion, not to just repeat the same naive tripe that is constantly repeated on this forum over and over again.

You can just continue the discussion along the lines of your agenda with those operating under the same mentality. I don't think I have the time to squabble over interpretations of this part of Nigeria's history right now. Later.

The greatest problem in Nigeria is that even the educated bulk at HONEST issues. You obviously have run out of any logical basis to continue supporting your position. Why not just admit so and then move, rather than call me names, trying to make it my fault? That is the mentality of the "Nigerian" elite.
I'm not here to squabble with anybody. lol. I'm here to ask an honest question: Why do some Africans see merit based appointments as a form of domination"?

This mindset bears the fruits of jealousy, hate and genocide.

PhysicsQED: I think you need to revisit the political history of Nigeria even up to present if you think that only those that tried to secede were ever accused of "domination" or if you think that only those that were accused of "domination" wanted autonomy.

I've basically meditated on Nigeria's history (especially the pre civil war and the civil war history); what I see shows a pattern of mental retardation.
From the North, if you read what Ahmadu Bello thought about Southerners, Easterners and Igbo, you would see that he was convinced that the North was being dominated by Southerners. The same goes to groups in the West that had to carpet-cross to ensure that they were not "dominated in their own land", never mind that the dominators were technocrats and seasoned politicians who could have elevated the average living standards of people in that region. The same happened in SW Camerouns (which led to their historic mistake of joining a French country), and to a some extent also happened (though partially) with Mid western and Eastern groups in the war against Biafra.
Some minority groups alleged the same "domination".
I personally believe that if Igbo were asked to form a country of their own with only Igboland, the Biafran war wouldn't have been fought at all, talkless of it lasting for almost three years.

So, why don't "the dominated" want their dominators to secede? Why do the dominated still panic at any signs of activities suggesting that the "dominating group" is planning to secede? We see it in Nairaland constantly.

So, what is going on?

Rational thinking dictates that a "dominated group" would work very hard to see the back of the "dominating group", from North to South; from East to West. But that is not what we see in Nigeria. Rather the so called dominated groups ganged up (and are still ganging up) to keep the dominating group in Nigeria.

I once begged that they push the dominating group out of Nigeria so that they can enjoy nirvana alone. It hasn't happened and looks like it will never happen.
So, isn't this a form of insanity or mental retardation?

PhysicsQED: First, my comment can be read two ways, and I meant for it to be interpreted both ways. I think you've figured out one of the interpretations based on the knee jerk reaction and the spiel that followed my suggestion that Africans are currently more nepotistic than other groups.

Second, Europe is divided mostly (but not exclusively or perfectly) along "ethnic" lines. So apparently those "inter-ethnic" wars you're referring to were for a reason.

I never missed the second reading one bit.
That is why I said that the people who alleged "domination" went to war to keep the "dominating group" in Nigeria. Even today, those who fear domination most are some of the most virulent attackers of secessionists who ironically are from the alleged dominating group. Does that make any logical sense at all?

That is why I say that mental retardation or a form of derangement must be responsible for this.

PhysicsQED: The problem is, Africans, for whatever reason, are currently more nepotistic than other groups. Some people just can't play by the rules.

There is no scientific (or even non-scientific) proof anywhere showing that Africans are more nepotistic than other groups. Europe has fought far more inter-ethnic wars than Africa can ever dream of. Yet, they are able to create a merit based system and is developed today because of it.

A normal human being (with a well functioning brain) would prefer that things are working irrespective of who is making them work.
A country like America (which Nigeria is pretending to be copying) is only possible,because human beings here trust progress more than ethnicity. In Nigeria, even as far back as 1950s which almost every Nigerian would tell you was a golden period, there were still HUGE CRIES of "domination" and "marginalization". Those cries played critical roles in the genocide of 1966 and the gang up against Biafra. But guess what, even the groups that ganged up against Biafra, cry today for the same things Biafra wanted to solve, yet they couldn't raise their mental capacity to support Biafra then.

Guess what again, the same people who fear "domination" most would be the first to panic when the "dominating group" wants to secede!

That is why I believe the problem is a form of mental retardation or derangement.

For me, the simplest test to determine whether this mindset is rational or not is to examine the infrastructure and civil service of a country.

A friend shared an experience about when a team from GOOGLE "streetview" went to Nigeria to establish a presence. When the Google team got there, met with some Nigerian (Lagos really) officials, and the Nigerians simply said to the Google team, "don't worry, you can start business, there is no problem, you shouldn't even pay for land. . .". The Google team was baffled, because they had expected a detailed meeting and signing of documents and the like. Didn't happen. But guess what happened when they returned to start making physical moves? Everybody they met again pretended as if they have not seen the Google guys before!

The Google guys were shocked; I wasn't shocked of course because we are talking about Nigeria where maybe the "guy in charge" didn't even know how to handle such world class company.

I have worked in the US for many years; EACH and EVERY job I've ever obtained was after undergoing a stiff screaning process based on such criteria as education, experience, written tests, and oral interviews. None of the jobs was ever given to me based on anything but MERIT. I know about "affirmative action", but the overwhelming majority of jobs here are based on qualification and competence. Often, one finds oneself working with mainly whites and asians; but EVERY black I have worked with here are very competent and very hardworking.

That is the America that I love. That is why things work here.

Why is it that in Africa, the moment one cannot beat a competitive recruitment or appointment process, one starts to allege all types of "domination", "marginalization", etc?
Why should laziness be accomodated in any progressive society?

Even more, why should we complain when things don't work, even when we know that the incompetent workers were chosen so as not to trip the wire of "domination" or "marginalization"?

I noticed that those usually "guilty" or on the receiving end of these accusations are usually the hardest working Africans, and you find this same problem in nearly every African country.

How can Africa ever develop with a lazy accussatory culture which envies, (and often) blackmails hardwork, often presenting it as something negative?

Isn't this mindset a form of mental retardation or mental derangment?

Katsumoto: Thats a silly comment?

Buhari is not Yoruba.

Even Hausa/Fulani stoops in respect while saying "ranka dede". They only do it to a RESPECTED (read superior) human being though.
Now, try another excuse! hehehe!

macjive01: http://www.jstor.org/stable/182769?seq=11

[size=18pt]READ THE FULL ARTICLE HERE!


no be today IGBO man begin suffer , suffer for irredemmable foo;l's hands ... even comon banga cameroun ?


please read .. its really captivating[/size]

Africa is a desert of idiocy with FEW oasis of smartness and sanity. Logic is a tough task to many African groups. Igbo happens to be among the very few tribes in Africa that can actually follow simple logic. That is why the British found them easy to train and work with. That is how they formed the main civil service workforce during colonial rule. If not for certain level of foreign intrusion into African affairs, I bet you that all the nonsense you hear about "Igbo domination" would never be given any human attention.

Let me give one example.

A Camerounian friend (from Bafang/Doula side of Cameroun) obtained his secondary school education in Umuahia (Abia state) and from there, he attended Alvan Ikoku college of education . Now listen: This was between 1987 and 1994. He counted MANY of his fellow (French, not even English) Camerounians who attended secondary and tertiary education in Igboland, maily Imo/Abia and Enugu. . . this was not in 1946, nor 1956, nor even 1966. Fact is that the Camerounians still rely on Eastern Nigeria for education even till today!

Now, tell me, what has "Igbo domination" done to the Camerounian from 1960 to today (a whopping 52 years!) that compels them to still seek and obtain education in Igboland till date? If I'm a foreigner reading this, it simply tells me that Igboland is actually bearing a big Camerounian developmental burden. We in Igboland don't know these because we are naturally not interested in who is in our lands, or in our schools, afterall if they qualify and can pay school fees like everybody else, why should we care?

But I bet you that some from the lazier parts of Africa will not understand this simple Igbo logic.

The same South Western Camerounians are desperate today to leave Cameroun and would (if possible) go back to Nigeria. But which Nigeria? EASTERN NIGERIA OF COURSE!

I will open a thread later to explore this (MAINLY AFRICAN) disease called "domination". Elsewhere in the world, it is called MERIT BASED APPOINTMENT.
No nation can develop without enthroning a merit based employment/appointment system.
That is why Africa remains poor and backwards.

That is also why Nigeria will NEVER allow Igboland to secede.

Africans have a twisted mindset when it comes to understanding a merit based system. They want things to work, but they will fight with their last blood to keep it from really happening.

Thank God I am an Igbo man.

^^

Bros the weasel you are talking to is gone. He lacks backbone.

Blazay Calloti abi na blazes will never repent. haha.

Desola: Are PH or Calabar seaports not closer to them?

PH and Calabar seaports are what I would call odi nso eru aka - very close, yet very far- for aboki.
They already have [b]your [/b]port, so why eye what they can't have. lol

I wonder where all the so called "Niger deltans" are now. They won't show up now. The more they avoid direct confrontation with the North over things like this, the more I think that Ndigbo should support the North in them, because we should not fight their wars for them, especially as some of them would rather fight Igbo than aboki.

I hope that Ohanaeze will stay away from this until we know who to support for sure.

O_D_B: It is not Aboki since most non-Muslim northerners do not share the same antecedents.

So what do you think I meant by "Aboki"?

Aboki will never change. lol