₦airaland Forum

Just the way they claimed that the man dressed like a woman to escape from London and got sick heads laughing their ass off. You can pull such stunts and get away with it with gas-heads, but not with reasonable people like me and denex

Alams stole, true. But to bring some mind-boggling, cooked up figures here thinking you'll fool me is what I can't take. Do you know that $40 million = N5.12 billion naira? Even if Alams stole that much money, how on earth do you think he would be stupid enough to want to spend all that amount on a party for a graduating daughter of his? Is she the only child he has at the time? Wasn't there other important things in his life that he'll spend money on other than a party?

Sister Militia, please go and cool down somewhere.

I will step in now.

I believe that ever since Babacratic OBJ came back from Jamaica and was allowed free passage to the corridors of power, via PDP BOT leadership, things have suddenly taken a different dimension across the land.

Did you guys notice that EFCC was very quiet ever since baba went back to Otta to feed the chickens? But when Baba came back from Jamaica and went straight to Abuja, EFCC bounced back to life again, especially when the whole government of national unity plans of Umoru suddenly turned sour,  to a ruse.

EFCC is on the trail of all those who were against Baba's third term, including Alamsco.

Planner:
You reason like a child. How old are you? So you actually believed that you people are using the "civilised ways" by way of kidnapping and all that.

Friend try and read in-between the lines.

C'mon, go and sleep, can't you see it's too late to discuss with elders? I will send those Ikwerre youths (your kith and kins in the Portharcourt, formenting trouble) to come and lull you to sleep. Anyways, they (Ikwerres) have said they don't want to have anything to do with you people. Who will I send to lull you to sleep now?

Planner:
That is not the issue. We igbo people used the uncivilised method and lost and you people are using the civilised ways and winning.

That is pretty strong language for someone from the ethnic group with a very "strong sense of decorum".

Oh! so you now agree that your people lost that war - using uncivilised means. My dear, that's the best word I've heard from you today. You do not want to know how we're winning our wars on all fronts.

I see I used something touchy this time. Sawrie lad, you pulled too hard on my tail. Please be careful next time.

Well the war sure had a toll on your people. That's why your leaders lost every inch of sense and decorum; they resorted to joining forces with the evil beings at Okija and other shrines - for proper enlightenment on the civilised way of making hard-earned money through ritual killings.

Don't get me started, you idiot.

Well, for people like madam babyosisi, who loves looking down on fishermen, please look down on me o! My grandfather padlled canoe from my village all the way to Lagos in the early 70s, just after the Civil War. It was his fish trade that helped him all the way to Lagos, where he found shelter and set up a business to train my father.

We in the delta are very much wiser than before. And indeed, we've learnt a lot from the mistakes of the Igbos. An ant will not look an elephant in the face and call him a fool. He sure knows the dire consequences. We will employ better means to fight for our own self-determination - the ones Igbos fought for the wrong way and lost several millions of able bodied men and women in their prime.

I am the grandson of a fisherman, and am proud to be one.

Prizm:
It is the height of folly for ANYONE (especially someone of Niger-Delta origin for instance) to waltz into a thread of this nature to deride and caricature the self-determination efforts of those who fought on Biafra's side. The more sensible approach, even if one has strong reasons for objecting to "Ojukwu's personal war", I think would have been to carefully study the facts, reach out to other Nigerians (Igbos included by the way), and build a broad grassroots movement to tackle visionless leadership in Nigeria.

I did not read through your post the last time thoroughly. I've just done that now, and I realise I'm dealing with another igbo man, who's feeling very bitter about that war. It's a normal thing to feel bitter about it. I indeed made some snide remarks about the war and igbo people. I made those statements because your brothers provoked me to do so. They kept on making a fool of themselves, casting aspersions on my person, people and tribes and calling them terrible names. I later apologised to the generality of Igbos on this forum for my unguarded utterances. What else would you have me do? This scenario of ours on this issue is much similar to what transpired in the Nigeria of 1966, between the parties involved before the war.

Prizm:
1) The actions of a few Igbo soldiers (plus one Yoruba man) in 1966 against the supposedly corrupt ruling establishment of the day cannot with due diligence be tagged an "Igbo orchestrated coup". The Igbo people were not consulted for this action; the perpetrators also did not claim to be acting in Igbo interest. They did what they felt would benefit Nigeria as a whole.

2) Before this action, the Igbo people did not have any particular need for a revolution because unlike today, the Igbo people were richly represented in every sphere and strata of government and the working class.

3) It is unconscionable and downright bizarre to commence a large scale extermination of fellow Nigerians (Igbos or people of south-southern origin) because of the actions of a few soldiers. That action served to illustrate that Nigeria was never one or united even if it was politically correct to claim so.

Folks can argue from now till tomorrow on what should have happened or not have, but really, its akin to crying over spilled milk. At this juncture, it behooves this present generation to draw some lessons from the mistakes of the past and then vow never to repeat those mistakes again. This is why it is remarkably sad that people who ought to be railing against the brigands in power (who have always executed their anti-people policies without facing negative consequences) are now mired in endless tribal baiting and infighting.

Will be back to address those bullet points.

My baby girl is more than three months old now. She's my first child. Pastors and elders of my Church, including members have come to see and pray for both parents and daughter. Many of my colleagues have come around too. But some of my colleagues in the office are on my neck about dedicating the child - a sort of ''welcome to the world'' ceremony for my baby.

Somehow, my wife wants us to cancel all our plans for the ceremony. No reason given other than it's not compulsory. My people must one do child dedication after having a child?

laudate:
Why are you exaggerating?? In what way has Ono expressed a perpetual dependence on the Hausa for salvation?? I don't get it o! Everyone has a different perspective on the causes, and the aftermath of the civil war. It happens the world over. The guy simply has a different viewpoint. Refute his allegations with facts. Simple. I have tried to set him straight on a few occassions. I don't believe in conjecture. Its' better to place the facts on the table & let people judge for themselves.

I have tried, using available facts at my disposal, plus rational thinking to simulate the events in the country that led to the Biafran War. I have a reasonable match in the end. I have read books on the war. I have also read several articles written in the past on this war. And like you, Laudate, said earlier, Ojukwu has consistently maintained an ominous silence on the role he played to execute that war. So are many of his Igbo brethren who partook in the war. I wonder why they do not want to say anything. Could it be that they admit they were at fault? So far I have painted the picture of that war as I see it. If anyone has any disputable facts to present, let him/her do so without making snide remarks or making derogatory statements about me, my tribe and my people in the Delta.

Maybe you can take me back to those few occassions where had to quanta- argue, Did I budge in the end?

@Prizm,
1.0 Much as what you've posted about the coup that led to that war is true, you need to look at the ''general mood'' in the country after the January 1966 coup. You need to in particular zero in on the people of Northern Nigeria, who are predominantly Moslems, proud, Jihadists, mostly Illiterates and are very many. Killing their Sardauna along with several other ministers of non-Igbo extraction spelt trouble.

Please read this link from wiki. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biafran_War and note this.

It is important to note, though, that most of the oil produced in Nigeria is from the non-Igbo Niger Delta

Wiil continue later.

denex:
@Laudate

do you understand French? I'd like to show you some articles but they are written in french.

By the way, I didn't say the Ibos fought for Crude Oil. They fought for self preservation.

But Ojukwu machinated them on purpose into the situation they found themselves.

Please tell me the difference between fighting for self preservation and fighting for what you will use to do just that.

laudate:
Abeg, make all of una cool down!!  

@denex,

I have read about the TotalFinaElf angle to the civil war, but since I do not have any facts to disprove or corroborate it, I will keep mute. But please note: you got it wrong when you implied the Igbo fought the war due to oil. NO sir!! The Igbo fought the war, because a large number of them had been killed in the North, and they needed to defend themselves. Period. Along the line, when resources were being depleted as the war was being fought, maybe the thought of using oil revenue to finance the acquisition of arms that would be needed to defend Biafra, may have arisen. But that war was not fought primarily to annex the oil fields in the Niger-Delta. NO!! Read up on the events that led to the 1966 coups and the eventual declaration of seccession. Nowa Omoigui as well as some British historians, have published some facts about what took place between 1966 and 1970. There have also been some non-fiction books written about the war. Draw your own conclusions, after you must have gone through them.

What I believe till date, is that all the peaceful avenues known to man were not fully explored to resolve the situation, before the nation was plunged into war. Like I keep saying "War is nothing, but the absence of wisdom." Those are not my words, but those of people who have seen enough bloodshed, to know that conflict resolves nothing.

Its in Dawodu.com that you would see all the write up by Omogui. There's no way Igbos will be killed by northerner without some form of provocation from some quarters. And judging by the mood of the northerners at the time, it would be rather impossible for people who are muslims, jihadists et al, uneducated lot, volatile people, at the time to spare anyone tagged enemy of their progress. Even if I were in their shoes, although I wll not go as far as killing innocent people, but I will be angry at the people who killed my leaders for flimsy reasons. Just the way I'm angry at the people of the three ethnic groups milking us dry in the Delta. And just like Afam, Mckren and other Igbos are up in arms defending their people's action. It's a natural thing to defend what's yours.

Is it because an Hausa man has not come to say anything yet that you guys think you're having some say? Let the Danmasanis and other northern people of the NL forum come and say something about what they know of the Biafran war. It's then there will be a balanced view of the facts that led to the war.

TayoD:
@Ono,
You need to have an understanding of the mechanics of materials to understand the diffenre in this case. Concrete is very difficult to destroy by impact, including explosive impact. Why do you think countries today are seeking technology for bunk-shattering bombs?

Have you ever considered that bomb shelters are made of reinforced concrete and not steel? Accepted, if the WTC was built with R.C., it likely would not fail like that if the perimeter walls were thick enough. But that is not the case. High rise buildings are built with steel and not R.C. because of the inherent properties of each. And the higher you go up on the high rise, the lighter the steel material used for the columns due to the lighter loads.

The bottom line is that you need to compare apples to apples. You can not expect steel to behave like reinforced concrete and vice versa. Each material has its advantages and disadvantages.

Ok. But I read somewhere, that those towers were built to withstand some brute force- equal to or even greater than that of reinforced concrete (will get the links). I mean, technology improves with years of understanding of the behaviours of materials. I did a bit of Structural Mechanics and materials science too - though not in details. Every engineering student must do those courses, along with other foundation courses. But that's not what we're talking here.

Except I get some other concrete evidence that it's those planes that crashed into the buildings that caused such a disaster, I will not believe anything that's posted in here as facts.

Yes:
Greed: Ojukwu wants all the oil to himself and his people

Pride: You were very proud indeed at the time. A lot of the brilliant men around were Igbos. Part of the facts the British knew they can't handle a Nigeria led by the Southern people. Yes, your people stood up for what was right. It's like an ant standing up to an elephant at the time and telling the elephant to his face that he's stupid. You knew the Brits will support a united Nigeria, yet you stood in their way. We know better today.

Self Delusion: To your leaders, who thought they were dealing with stupid and foolish people in other regions of Nigeria, until the war came and prove them wrong.

Any other thing?

angel101:
From what I understand of the war, it was the North that started the agitation to seceed. But they were cajoled by the British govt to remain because that was the only way they (british) could be sure of benefiting from the natural resources in the country (oil). As it is well known that the colonialists could not govern the country through the south.

Now tell me, what manner of man will see death on the horizon by taking a wrong step, and will go ahead to take that step? If you ask me, that man is someone who thinks he can play a fast one on other peoples intelligence and get away with it. Only a fool will do that.

I'm waiting for a Non-Igbo to come here and state with facts, how he/she believes that greed, arrogance, pride, self delusion on the part of Igbo leaders (Ojukwu being the rallying point at the time) was not the major cause of the Biafran War.

All these people posting are Igbos, by ethnic affiliation and otherwise, so they can pass with their facts. We know why they're reacting like this. I will do thesame if I were in their shoes. I want someone else to contribute

I was watching the History Channel yesterday, and the documentary was on how the Germans lost the Battle of Stalingrad during WWII. Stalingrad was the old name of the present day Russian city called Volvograd - the administrative center of Volgograd Oblast.

That documentary showed how the stuff - Concrete and Cement mixed together (called reinforced concrete) with which the city was built at the time (way back 1944-1945), helped prevented the total destruction of that city by the invading German armies. German bombers and artillleries rained bombs of up to a100 thousand tonnes on that city, but those bombs, according to the man who went up to view some of the photographs of the ruins of the city in their museum,  did not penetrate deep into the structures   So, with partially destroyed buildings sheltering very determined people, the stage was set for guerilla type warfare against the invading German armies. The city inhabitants, thought to have been exterminated by German bombs, put up one of the greatest resistance to a brutal army in human history. They defeated the Germans, who believed they did everything right to destroy Stalingrad and do not have a clue as to how they were defeated by the inhabitants of the city.

After that documentary, I thought about the incidents at WTC on 9/11. I knew I might be wrong to conclude that there was more to the destruction of those buildings than meet the eye. So, I decided to share the bits and pieces of the documentary as I saw it with our learned audience on Nairaland.

If bombs could not reduce a number of once standing edifices in Stalingrad at the time to rubbles, how on Earth did planes laden with jet-fuel only caused such catastrophic destruction of lives and a well fortified structure as the WTC at New York in 9/1/1/2000 AD?

I hate no Igbo person.

This ''Igbo Hater'' tag should be removed from me immediately. I have Igbo links. Lineage actually.

There are no assumptions. It's impossible that the whole of Nigeria armoury, at the time, would wake up one day and just go all out the annihilate the Igbos. Or what do you think? Something pushed them into doing just that.

Afam,
Please don't take these things to heart for too long. I have read several of your posts on Nairaland and I respect many of your views (and you know that too).

But, on this one, if you remove ethnic sentiments, and put on your ''Objectivity Cloak'', you will agree with the views of Omaseye. The central theme of the Biafran War was the OIL in the NIGER DELTA. And since Ojukwu and other selfish Igbos, who could not get what they want at the time, lost the war, they come around again singing a new song in 2007.

MILITIA:
Please, like we need evidence to show who the lynchpin looting mafia boss is?  They confess with their mouths everyday declaring "mind boggling' assets in an environment that defies any economic planning and investment strategy! Like Judge Judy over here will say----------PLEASE DO NOT PEE ON MY LET AND TELL ME IT IS RAINING!-----------If you are blind, deaf and dumb, you can smell abi?  Nigerians have even lost the ability to smell!  So rain water and piss water can be used to cook their meals since they cannot tell the difference!  TUFIA-KWA!

Ermm, thank you sister Militia.

The pivot of my first statement is could. I did not use is. Why can't people understand simple English in the morning or evening?

All thess ones na late coming. Ojukwu (and all Igbos) lost the Biafran War. His people surrendered the Biafran flag to OBJ somewhere in their own territory.

But, in order not to make them feel too bad about the war, Gowon said ''No victor, No vanquished''. What else do the Igbos want now? Gowon should go kill his people and the rest of Nigeria for the Igbos mistakes?

If the Igbos did not consent to the war, how is it possible that Ojukwu alone orchestrated that war without the active participants of loyalists and others who stand to gain something from the war?

So, then, it's true that OBJ could be worth 180 billion Naira (todays money), at least going by the evidence graciously dished out by Ugwumba. Need we any further proof that OBJ is the lynchpin of all the thievery that was and is still going on in this country?

Is it possible that the plane was laden with explosives by those Terrorists, such that on impact and detonation of these explosives (in the building), we had such debris jutting out of the building like shown above?

The painful bit about that 9/11 event is the number of lives lost (no, sacrificed) to satisfy the sinful desires of a greedy few. Reminds me of what happened during Biafra.

I just hope all these events will not lead us to WW3.

I will not reply you (Mckren) on this issue again. I am not known for making rash comments on this forum, and whoever I have offended by my last post should please accept my sincere apologies. It's just a forum, air your views. Live and lets live.

McKren:
Ono

Someone thinks you are a bad student of history, I don't think so. I think you are plane misguided and stupid. Sometimes I wonder if you are a 5 year old kid. Some people gave Your forefathers other people's properties which they aquired through hard work in exchange for your so-called birthright (oil). 47years latter you don't control your oil, you have sold most of those properties out of hunger, yet you have no peace in your hometown.

Instead of regretting your forefathers cowardice and mortgaging your future just for peanuts which accounts for the crisis in your region today you come here typing loads of rubbish.

If Nigeria decides to have a debate today for local control of resources in the NASS, the Igbo senators will be the first to vote for it.

I think you should be ashamed of yourself that 47years after your fathers betrayed you, you are betraying yourself.

I have said it, at least on this thread, that we're not discussing Niger Delta here. There are several other threads you can latch up to and say whatever you like there.

Anyways, true, our forefathers sold their birthright. No doubt about that. But your forefathers, led you to a needless war, where you lost out woefully, with millions of your people killed like cockroaches and rats. But for the intervention of well meaning countries and individuals alike, your type and generation would not be here talking today. You probably would have been killed with your parents, while you're still in his prick or womb.

You come here to tell the world that you fought for dignity, pride and other bullcrap, when we all know that it's your forefather's greed to amass wealth that does not belong to them to themselves that led to a war that would have resulted to the complete annihilation of your ethnic group.

Today, your type cannot become the president of this country. All of your efforts continue leading you backwards in the scheme of things. You're even regarded as third-class citizens. Now tell me, what could be worst than this?


Sincere apologie to my good Igbo friends, but I need to put this McKren where he belongs - in the trash can.

Planner:
@Ono,
you said:

Either you are very p[oor student of history or you are just being mischievous. How could you say or any other person for that matter to say that the Nigerian Civil War was fought because of crude oil? THAT IS VERY VERY WARPED. Instead the foriegn governments that supported either Nigerian troops or the Biafran troops had motives behind it. Britain preferred Nigeria to be united so that she can maximise her neocolonialist policies. So was France. So try and read up and stop engaging in intellectual mastrubation.

See, there's no need for mudslinging here. I do not know you from Adams. This forum merely enables people to hide behind a computer and type whatever they like. And when knowledgeable people talk - as it is in this political section of the forum (not all the time though) I expect the utmost sense of responsiblity, decorum, respect and clarity. You need to bring yourself to that level, so that we can both reason together. And if my terms are too much for you to bare, please try someone else.

You never said anything about Frenchmen and their armies until now. You brought this up, cause Denex said something about it.

Whatever addition there is to the Nigerian Civil War (Biafran War), the truth is that the Igbos in particular, created the fertile ground for that war to thrive. It's possible you guys went into some form of alliance with France (Ojukwu being the arrow head at the time), with the intention of sharing the proceeds from crude sales from the delta. And since the Igbos generally lost out, that deal came out bad.

.

David,
Lets talk on YIM. I never believed I will be talking like this after what I saw on TV on 911. But sometimes, people change. Don't take a rigid position on all issues, be fluid and listen to others too. They might have something you never know.

As per the radioactive stuff missing from Nigeria, well denex has done swift justice to that. Lets talk.

RichyBlacK:
@Ono
You seem to place a lot of emphasis on crude oil, as if that's the holy grail of development. Look at this issue globally, Japan (not a crude oil heavy weight) has 13 times the GDP and 2.5 times the GDP per capita of Saudi Arabia (260.1 billion barrels of oil reserves - about 24% of the world's proven total petroleum reserves). Having crude oil does not guarantee that every child that falls sick will get adequate health care, or that the schools will be well funded, or that basic amenities like power, good roads, etc. will be available. Nigeria is a good case study; with all the crude oil we have, how has it made life better for the average Nigerian? Though natural resources played a role in the Biafran War, the main reason for the war was survival. I see the war as a statement of survival. War has ended, Igbos have learnt a lesson or two, and they are doing an excellent job in surviving.

Today, decades after the Biafran War, the people of the Niger Delta are (still) being dispossessed of the resources (that you attach inordinate value to). As far as I'm concerned this (the plundering) is atrocious, however, if the thinking of the present leaders of the Niger Delta is anything remotely close to yours (I make no claim on your background), then the problems of the ND region will only persist, unfortunately.

The problem with you guys is that you all like going out of context. The crux of this discussion, if I'm not wrong, is the Reasons for The Biafran War, which took place in the late 60s- early 70s. We're trying to get the reasons why Nigeria went to War with the Igbos at the time. We're not talking here about Igbos, Hausas or Yorubas potential as at today. Why don't you just face up to the issue on discourse and lets reason them out?

And I can say that, part of the reasons why you guys became so ''strong'' in every sphere of human ''endeavour'' is because you learnt quite a lot from that War. Nigeria did learn a lot too, though.

Donzman:
What the hell?. . .Biafra was fought because of oil? We have people replying this retard!

Na you be retard. Yeye man.

Wishy wishy wish. Keep on wishing.

My people, we're talking about 1966, where and when the oil and gas resources of the Igbo speaking areas were yet to be discovered. You guys are talking about them now because they are recent discoveries.

Besides, we're not talking about the Niger Delta here, are we? What you need to prove wrong is the facts that led to the Biafran War and nothing more. You don't want to take me on the Niger Delta issues, please hold your peace.

TayoD:
Anyway, for those who care to know the truth here's a link to the facts about the 4,000 Jews that Afam now wants us to believe as good information: http://usinfo.state.gov/media/Archive/2005/Jan/14-260933.html

Until such a time as GW Bush is out of the White House, and the place is swept clean of all his cohorts and replaced with duely elected President of the USA, I will not believe anything as information coming out from that place.

If GW Bush can lie about the WMD stuff, to invade Iraq, he can lie about the 4000 missiong Jews at the WTC.