₦airaland Forum

striktlymi: Can you please address me and stop bringing my brethren into this...focus on what I say and not what 'they said'...Intelligence cannot be attributed to just humans...apes are very intelligent too so if someone comes to say that we resemble God because of just intelligence then they must be mistaken. The spirit is the link humans have with God which no other animal shares.
It would be silly for me to say that only humans have life.

Well then, i will have to quote the bible once again, same verse i quoted above for pastorkun :

ooman: [size=15pt]Let me leave you with your very own Solomon in Eccl. 3v19-22. For humans and animals both breathe same air and both die. So people have no real advantage over animals. How meaningless. Both go to the same place-dust from which they came and to which they must return. For who can prove that the human spirit goes upward and the spirit of animals goes downward into the earth? So I saw that there is nothing better for people than to be happy in their work. THAT IS WHY THEY ARE HERE! NO ONE WILL BRING THEM BACK FROM DEATH TO ENJOY LIFE IN THE FUTURE-NIV.[/size]

there is no real advantage over animals. "Spirit link" is a myth!!

striktlymi: 'Building' something from scratch does not mean that the creator did not include this innate ability to 'change' when it is needed. God built man to be 'self sustaining' and the ability for man to adapt to changing situations is part of this in-built mechanism.

Then the creator is not perfect!! If there must be changes to his creations to fit unpredictable future changes, then the creator is not omniscient, or at least does not care about the future of man on earth!! so he doesnt put future changes into consideration in his designs!!

musKeeto: Someone's missing davidylan. Not all atheists are scientists, Ooman. Or is that a prerequisite to becoming an atheist?

Just lay out your points plainly to avoid any confusions, @rey has already pointed out the error in your previous posts...

there was NOTHING contradictory about that. If you think there is, pls point out plainly.

Death of any and all living systems means -metabolic equilibrium with the environment. Since the environment is always at higher entropy than conserved system (life forms), death will therefore add to the chaos of the environment. Meaning, death will lead to release of energy, increase in energy is increase in entropy of the environment.

So once again, where is the contradiction?

Pastor Kun: You don't need to wait a few months, i can already tell you upfront that the creator created the universe and everything in it. And yes i do believe there is a very high probability that life forms exists in distant planets and this life forms if they exist were also created by the creator. And mind you the creator does not owe you an explanation on if or why he created life forms on other planets.

so we dont owe him worship!

striktlymi: I did not reject homology...

yea, exactly, why reject its link to evolution since it doesnt make sense to attribute it to a creator?

striktlymi: How did I miss this...

Note that when God said he created man in his image and likeness, this should not be taken literally...

God is not human and he does not have physical attributes...

Since humans are the only animal that are intelligent, intelligence, as believed by most theists, is one of the attribute God shares with man, so how dare you say the bold

striktlymi: It is my belief that we only resemble God in our spirit as God himself is a spirit...the only semblance we have of God is the life given breath he was generous to have shared with us. No animal share this trait with humans.

are you saying that animals are alive by a different mechanism, or in your own view, only humans have "life"?

ghazzal: im sorry but i must say you must be a bad reader. I am a muslim so why does my interpretation of islam not mean death to non muslims:

Its either i am getting it wrong or you got it wrong: its a reason for you to go and read very well. A lot of muslims dont believe this!

why cant the possibility be that you got it wrong?

striktlymi: Now ooman, for simplicity sake, let's assume that sacred scriptures is as literal as it gets...



What you suggest up there is quite different from what is written in sacred scriptures.




Genesis 1:11-12
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Genesis 1:25

25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

The above scriptural backing supports some of the theories we have been talking about. 'Kind' can mean a group of people or things with similar characteristics which explains homology and the similarities that exists amongst some specie. Note that the command God gave never said anything about species being immutable...at best what you can claim is that the scriptural passage is silent on the matter.

It is quite fundamental that every specie makes a vigorous attempt to reproduce its kind and this is in line with the command of God...scriptures however did not explicitly say that there is no room for change...this is your own interpretation at best.

Once again, the philosophical question is this: Why should animals change if they are built from scratch? pls answer that!

MacDaddy01: So you even confess that Majaze answer makes sense but you went for the easy target called Ooman.

You are truly useless.

By the way, I have had two threads dealing with this issue of atheism and suicide before. I couldnt be bothered with repeating old points again.

You on the other hand are an empty barrel.



@ Ooman- shut up.

it is said that most atheists lack scientific knowledge - this is what i see you display

striktlymi: I never suggested that homology is not fact!

so why did you reject it?

Pastor Kun: You have forgotten God created the animals as well. Even we human beings are physically animals albeit higher animals so no qualms if the creator should decide to create more than one specie in his image. But only humans were created in his likeness

Let me leave you with your very own Solomon in Eccl. 3v19-22. For humans and animals both breathe same air and both die. So people have no real advantage over animals. How meaningless. Both go to the same place-dust from which they came and to which they must return. For who can prove that the human spirit goes upward and the spirit of animals goes downward into the earth? So I saw that there is nothing better for people than to be happy in their work. THAT IS WHY THEY ARE HERE! NO ONE WILL BRING THEM BACK FROM DEATH TO ENJOY LIFE IN THE FUTURE-NIV.

striktlymi: Homology assumes common ancestry...though the quantitative evidence for a common ancestry cannot be overlooked but this still is not conclusive. At best, its just another scientific theory which we are still working on. Homology in itself is a fact but its link to evolution is yet to be proven as a scientific fact.

Embryological similarities and genetic analysis confirms homology as fact. If you do not accept scientific evidence, what evidence would you possibly accept? Which makes it seem like even if we were to find all fossils, which is virtually impossible, you wont still drop your myths.

striktlymi: Nope, because his opinion and conclusion is not science...


#In LB's voice: it's pseudo-science.

Most atheist lack biological knowledge not to talk of genetics. Genetics is not rocket science so he is forgiven.

In your own voice-not all atheists became one because of science.

striktlymi: Can you please give the scriptural backing for the bold?


#If I have not experienced God I would have become a deist

Gen 1v11, v12, v25. Since all animals are created from scratch, why should they change? That is the philosophical question here.

mkmyers45: I Posted the OP to show that most atheist we know are just social critics and i cannot attribute them to enlightened mind cos even a freshman at College will see the irregularities in my post.

So of what use exactly is this bug of a thread. You think I have the time to read your epistle you posted? Keep it short next time.

Reyginus: Your first sentence contradicts your second.

A little college level biology will do you and logicboy a great good. Go back to school both of you.

striktlymi: C'mon ooman, even if the man is my dad, I will look him in the eye and tell him: "paps, you got it all wrong...try and not pose your personal interpretation of the evidence as facts"

Yea because it disagree with the myth you have gotten yourself to believe in. SMH

striktlymi: Good morning pastor Kun,

I believe adaptation implies evolution! One can't really talk about adaptation without referring to evolution. I don't accept the version of evolution some scientists are postulating because they are mixing their personal beliefs with the evidence we have.

I am of the opinion that God created 'life' such that each specie would be able to change some aspects of its inherited characteristics over successive generations when there is a need for it...this however is not something we can will to happen and it occurs only within the confines
of a particular specie.

Your opinion does not agree with the bible. According to the bible, species are immutable, never changing. The bible says that each animal must reproduce according to its kind. No room given for change over time. Except if you are now a deist?

Pastor Kun: As it occurred to you that given that human beings have the same creator with this apes and other animals it should be naturally expected that there should be similarities in the various creation. Take for example if you see a mercedes benz, you don't need to be told because of the distinctive look the manufacturer has designed it with. various models of mercedes resemble each other and even have similar parts[dna] likewise other models of cars of cars with the same manufacturer share similar parts[dna] so it makes perfect sense for beings created by the same creator to to have similarities in their
attributes including their dna.

That is if you will tell me why a creator would want to make humans he made in his image look like an animal, or why he fused two animal chromosomes to make his own children.

striktlymi: Good morning ooman,

The above is still wrong...causation does not necessarily imply similarity. The fact that one thing caused another does not mean that both items would be similar. Anyways, your friend in the video failed to show this causal relationship.

True but nature cannot change because you failed to understand it. Homology and analogy are two scientically proven facts, they signify similarities because of similar causation-evolution.

musKeeto: Lmao. Oga Ooman, take am easy. If death of any human would increase the pace of entropy of the universe, what about the various religious wars and epidemics that have claimed billions of lives throughout history? Let's not factor in the billions of humans that may have died due to natural causes.

Sorry, your theory sounds a bit delusional and 'spiritual' for an atheist... R u billyonaire in disguise?

Death of any and all living systems means - metabolic equilibrium with the environment. Since the environment is always at higher entropy than conserved system, death will therefore add to the chaos of the environment. This can be understood fully with proper understanding of second law of thermodynamics.

Wars achieve a purpose so are expedient. Epidemics do not just kill conserved systems, millions of other conserved systems are also reproduced so there is a balance. Eg the black death that killed millions of europeans in medieval period also led to multiplication of the organism causing the disease. As hiv kills humans, the virus is increasing so there is a balance in nature.
But if everyone start committing suicide because life is hard, what will ensure balance?

As an atheist, I do not regard anything as sin but behaviors that hurt or does not. Smoking marijuana hurts the human body. The marijuana smoke substitutes a natural substance in your body with itself, this is why you are addicted in the first place.

If this pace continues, it can kill you. Smoking marijuana is bad, you do not need a god or commandments to tell you that.

Go to a rehabilitation or use methadone-like drugs, it will help abandon marijuana and you will be free.

okeyxyz: ^^^
Just read a part of it(up to verse 30) and all I can say is WOW!! It's beautiful so far...

btw, why was it removed from the bible??

Constantine removed it and labeled it as apocrypha.

Do you know that the flying spaghetti is the only one true God? Start worshipping the almighty now before its late!

striktlymi: C'mon guy, this individual is busy giving us his personal interpretations...that is at best his theory and does not constitute a conclusive evidence.

Do you even realize that the man in that video is a church going, bible believing, God and Jesus and Mary worshipping Roman Catholic?? He has no reason to lie.

striktlymi: [size=20pt]Similarity does not prove causation.[/size]

[size=20pt]Oh no, but causation proves similarity!![/size]

solidbroda: everyone who dies (goood or bad) sleeps peacefully till jesus comes and call d righteous with him. For those dat sinned, hell is not there lot (dey keep sleeping forever)
Read this article
www.truthaboutdeath.com/blog/id/1590/the-mystery-of-death.aspx

whatever!!

striktlymi: C'mon guy, this individual is busy giving us his personal interpretations...that is at best his theory and does not constitute a conclusive evidence.

or you are busy trying to convince yourself that your ancient myth must be true. Because fossils are not accurate and cannot be accurate because of degradation of living systems, i do not normally include fossils when proving evolution except when requested. However, much more homological evidences support that man evolved from previous apes

I will leave you with Sam Harris: If someone doesn’t value evidence, what evidence could you provide for them to value it?

ah.

Since i dont believe in spirits, i believe that dreams are rearrangement of memory and the autosuggestion of outcome of pending matters in the preconscious. Our brain does statistics with our thoughts while it works involuntarily. It only present possible outcome of pending matter as i have said, there is nothing like visions or precognition. If the patterns in real life follows as the dream suggest, then humans conclude dreams come to pass. This why humans thought dreams are sent in the first place.

Chubhie: The ignorant are fanatically religious the intelligent are fashionably atheist;the wise
are obviously spiritual....

you spoiled this poem with your last piece, it should have been "the deluded are obviously spiritual!!!"

source?