₦airaland Forum

TheLequte:
That’s not a blanket statement. That’s reality.

Comparing either team’s first or second team is erroneous. That’s why I said you don’t get it.

Why would you play your “second team” alone when your first team players are also available?

No manager fields their second team alone. They only do so in special situations- like if the opposition is of very lower quality or some other reason.

What they usually do is make few changes so that there isn’t too much drop in quality.

I seriously don’t get the idea of comparing first or second team alone. It’s so very erroneous and doesn’t even compare the quality between both teams.

Then you should know it also applies to us...

TheLequte:
In defense, we are ahead but they are not far behind. In attack they are ahead but we are close behind.

You can say we’re “close to each other” in attack and defense but that midfield, we are way behind them. It’s clear for all to see.

How exactly are City ahead in attack?

TheLequte:
Their quality and contribution in the last 2 years. And this is relative to the contribution of the top player for each position (who gets a 10).



This is wrong.

The only department where we're better is in defense. - CB and LB. And they're not far behind us there.

The gap is huge in midfield - They have way better quality squad depth at DM, CM and AM

In attack, they have the better quality squad depth but we're closer. (Just like the CB position)

Abeg what's City's squad depth in the DM position? Fernandinho and Rodri? Depth? Jesus Christ!

What are their options in CM? We have Pogba, Fred, VDB...City have only Gundogan and Rodri (More a DM)...Pep fielding KDB, Silva, Foden and the likes in CM is down to his ingenuity and the trust he has for them...What stops Ole from playing Fred as a CM? What stops him from finding a system that suits VDB? If they had joined City, the argument would have been different...

City have better quality and depth? Bruno cancels out KDB, most of you think he is even better...Pogba as an AM is better than Grealish...Let Ole set us up to attack like City do and you'll see that Pogba and Bruno will dust Grealish and KDB...Silva is an unproductive player, good with the ball at his feet but he is not good at scoring nor creating chances...Foden is a forward in my books as his first instinct is to score, no way will I pick Gundogan and Foden over VDB as my AM...

We are better in defense and attack, they're arguably better in midfield...Your attempt at breaking the midfield into DM, CM and AM as well as defense into RCB, RB etc changes nothing...

They're better at RB, whilst we are better at RCB and LB...The LCB is a tie...

In midfield, they're better at DM, but the CM and AM a tie...

In attack, we are better at CF, the LWF and REF position is a tie...Anything else is you arguing against the quality of each side on display...

GloryIsaac:
Lmaooooo... mentioned earlier that this was the real root of all these claim about United and City being on par.

Didn’t take long to spout it. Continue.

Oga you have thus far not shown us how City are better than United...

Defense?

Midfield?

Attack?

ChristineC:
it's always a two way street when you make blanket conclusions like this.
like someone already pointed out, every debate here ends up on an Ole baseline which becomes boring.
conclusion can also be made from the other angle, which is you are trying to overrate the squad quality, should in case they win something then you can say the quality was responsible and OGS didn't do anything

Lol He is trying to overrated the squad quality just so he doesn't give prop to Ole...Isn't that line a pointer that you're for Ole?

Kindly rate our defense, midfield and attack compared to City...

TheLequte:
With the addition of Sancho I’m inclined to agree with your point. If we pick the best of the best, we’re better attack wise.

However if you think about quality squad depth, City just about edges United. And in the long run it’s quality squad depth that matters, not the starting XI.

Because if the best attacker of both teams gets injured, loses form or gets fatigued, we know who’s going to suffer more.

Show us the respective 2nd teams like I did and let's see City's 2nd string attack compared to ours...Blanket statement shouldn't suffice but reality...

TheLequte:
Patrickmuf you can bring your own ratings and the result will not change. City has the better quality squad depth than United does, especially in midfield.

And we've only closed the gap recently with the acquisition of Varane and Sancho.

Is midfield the only area of the pitch? Defense and attack counts for nothing because we are better in those departments abi?

TheLequte:
5.

The second interpretation is to grade each player in the “rankings”.

The top player will get a 10, and the others will be rated depending on how close they are in quality to the top player for that position.


GK-
Ederson 10
De Gea, 9
Henderson, 9
Jeffers, 7

RB-
Cancelo, 10
K. Walker, 10
Wan BIssaka, 7
Dalot, 5

RCB-
Varane, 10
Laporte 9
Lindelof, 8
Diaz, p 7
Maguire, p 7
Stones, 6
Bailly, 5
Ake 4

LCB -
Maguire, p 10
Diaz, p 10
Laporte, 7
Varane, q 5
Lindelof, q 5
Stones, q 5
Ake, 4
Bailly, 3


LB -
L. Shaw, 10
Zinchenko, p 8
Telles, p 8
Mendy, p 8

DM-
Rordri, 10
Fernandinho, 9
Matic, 7
Fred, 4
Mctom, 4


CM-
KDB, 10
Pogba, 10
Gundogan, 8
McTom, q 6
Fred, q 6
B. SIlva, 5
VDB 4

AM-
Bruno Fernandez,10
KDB, 10
Graelish,10
Phil Foden, 8
Pogba, 8
B. Silva, p 7
Gundogan, p 7
VDB, 5
Lingard, 4


RWF -
Mahrez,10
Sancho, 9
Greenwood, 8
B. Silva, 7
Rashford, p 5
Sterling, p 5
Ferran Torres,4
Foden, 3
Lingard, q 2
James, q 2

LWF-
Graelish, 10
Rashford, 10
Sterling, 10
Sancho, 9
Jesus, 8
Foden, 6
Martial, 6
Lingard, 5
James, 4

CF-
Cavani, 10
Jesus, 8
Greenwood, 8
Martial, 5
Rashford, 4
Ferran Torres, 4


GK
MAN = 18 (squad depth), 18 (quality squad depth- any player with a contribution less than 5 is removed)
De Gea, 9
Henderson, 9

MCI = 17, 17
Ederson 10
Jeffers, 7

Verdict: Man Utd has the better squad depth and also the better quality squad depth.

RB-

MAN = 12, 12
Wan BIssaka, 7
Dalot, 5

MCI = 20, 20
Cancelo, 10
K. Walker, 10

Verdict: City has the better squad depth and better squad depth quality.

RCB-

MAN = 30, 30
Varane, 10
Lindelof, 8
Maguire, p 7
Bailly, 5

MCI = 26, 22
Laporte 9
Diaz, p 7
Stones, 6
Ake 4

Verdict: Man Utd has the better squad depth and better squad depth quality.

LCB -

MAN = 23, 20
Maguire, p 10
Varane, q 5
Lindelof, q 5
Bailly, 3

MCI = 26, 22
Diaz, p 10
Laporte, 7
Stones, q 5
Ake, 4

Verdict: City has the better squad depth and better squad depth quality.

LB -

MAN = 18, 18
L. Shaw, 10
Telles, p 8

MCI= 16, 16
Zinchenko, p 8
Mendy, p 8

Verdict: Man Utd has the better squad depth and better squad depth quality.


DM-
MAN = 15, 7
Matic, 7
Fred, 4
Mctom, 4

MCI = 19, 19
Rordri, 10
Fernandinho, 9

Verdict: CIty has the better squad depth and better squad depth quality.

CM-
MAN = 26, 22
Pogba, 10
McTom, q 6
Fred, q 6
VDB 4

MCI= 23, 23
KDB, 10
Gundogan, 8
B. SIlva, 5

Verdict: While Man Utd has the better squad depth, CIty has the better squad depth quality.

AM-

MAN = 27, 23
Bruno Fernandez,10
Pogba, 8
VDB, 5
Lingard, 4

MCI = 42, 42
KDB, 10
Graelish,10
Phil Foden, 8
B. Silva, p 7
Gundogan, p 7

Verdict: City has the better squad depth and better squad depth quality.


RWF -
MAN = 26, 22
Sancho, 9
Greenwood, 8
Rashford, p 5
Lingard, q 2
James, q 2

MCI = 29, 26
Mahrez,10
B. Silva, 7
Sterling, p 5
Ferran Torres,4
Foden, 3

Verdict: City has the better squad depth and better squad depth quality.

LWF-
MAN = 34, 30
Rashford, 10
Sancho, 9
Martial, 6
Lingard, 5
James, 4

MCI = 34, 34
Graelish, 10
Sterling, 10
Jesus, 8
Foden, 6

Verdict: Both teams have the same squad depth but City edges it in terms of squad depth quality.

CF-
MAN = 27, 23
Cavani, 10
Greenwood, 8
Martial, 5
Rashford, 4

MCI = 12, 8
Jesus, 8
Ferran Torres, 4

Man Utd has the better squad depth and better squad depth quality.

City has the better squad depth quality in 7 positions while Utd has 5. If you remove the GK department because you don’t really need squad depth for that position over the course of a season, it’s 7 to 4.

In terms of squad depth, it’s 6 to 4.

Now, the gulf was way wider before the beginning of this season. If you take away Sancho and Varane, there will be a significant drop in Man Utd’s points. And if you remove Graelish from City’s squad, the drop in points won’t be very much.

United made 2 significant additions to their team while City made one addition that, while in itself is a top quality addition, won’t bring about a leap in quality to the team.

afr. odoc2 capital. cee gloryisa. ac Patric. kmuf

What informed your rating?

In defense, we are better, in midfield, they edge it while we are better in attack...

GrammarNazi1:
After all, Pique eventually reduced his wages for political reasons/politics.

And now Pique is the saviour, not Messi.

Some of the players even wanted Messi out.

Now they'll be exposed...

Where is Greizmann?

Why didn’t Busi, Greizmann, Coutinho, Alba, Umtiti drop their wages for Messi...This guys are past it...

Messi on the pitch and Athletic would've shown more respect...Long season ahead.

jpmoriarti:
Difficult match so far!

ATH jambodi style no be here o

They've pressed very well...

DeadPresidents:
I consider Pogba a member of the United first team and as such should not be involved with any second team list.

I’d take Fernandinho ahead of Matic if I’m fielding Lindelof at the back.

I consider Gundogan to be a City first teamer

Nice one...

DeadPresidents:
Bench Replacements

Here I'm only taking entries from both teams' second elevens.

Goalkeeper - Henderson

RB - Walker

RCB - Stones

LCB - Laporte

LB - Telles (I don't rate Mendy at all)

DM - Fernandinho

CM - VDB

AM - Bernardo Silva

LWF - Foden (worlds better than James who is our backup LWF)

CF - Martial (Martial is essentially our backup CF now )

RWF - Greenwood

City overwhelmingly dominant when it comes to second-team choices here.

It must mean you do not rate Pogba because he should be starting ahead of Silva who for me does not create enough, he is a fine player but is not backed by numbers...I'd also pick Matic ahead of Fernandinho right now and Gundogan ahead of VDB...

Laporte? I am not sure he is better than Lindelof now except that he is left footed...

eph12:
Hold your coach responsible for that

Gbam!

DeadPresidents:
My take

Goalkeeper - Ederson

RB - Cancelo

RCB - Varane

LCB - Maguire

LB - Shaw

DM - Rodri

CM - KDB (KDB just about edges it in defensive contributions for me)

AM - Bruno

LWF - Rashford (I need goal-scoring LWFs and Grealish doesn't cut it for me)

CF - Cavani

RWF - Mahrez (Sancho is still an unknown quantity in the EPL so Mahrez gets the benefit here)

Fair enough...That's 6 for us and 5 for them...Can you please do a replacement per position let me see what your option from the bench will look like?

afrodoc2:
In my opinion by signing Varane and Sancho we have closed the gap but they are still ahead. The reason why that DM is so important is because the kind of star players we have in attacking midfield makes it crucial for us to have someone who can play CDM alone.

It is a matter of personal opinion which is why i don't want to get too involved in this debate. It depends on how highly you rate each player.
When i look at Mata, James, Lingard, Dalot, Telles that is a large number of players that are just not up to the level we need right now IMO.

In saying this i am not hoping to protect Amaka. Everybody knows he is our weakest link but that does not mean i still can't believe City's squad is stronger.

Well, it's generally accepted we need a DM however City more than ever do have deficiencies...Cancelo was deployed at LB today just because Pep doesn't trust his LB options...They're lacking in the CF position so, while they might blitz past Norwich, they'll struggle against top opposition...

No matter how I want to excuse Ole, I think the buck stops at his table, he has to find a way to utilize the squad better, that's one area where Pep has mastered, we have the numbers and quality, we just need to make it count...

nitrogen:
Lol. Ole is a tactical genius. The players are sh1t!

You dey mind them?

GloryIsaac:
Pep swaps players week in week out and it’s like nothing happened. Even the almighty De Bruyne

Swap out Bruno for VDB, and come read the comments on this thread that day.

Isn't that a knock on Ole?

GloryIsaac:
Trevor is actually right lmao

Who needs Bruno when Pogba is here? Please send him back to Sporting Lisbon

Who needs a DM, when we are on par with Man City? Isn’t that selfishness? No need to waste money please.

Why did Sancho even join this team? Please send him back to Dortmund. We are fully capable. Our superstar Daniel James is more than ready.

We could have easily won the league without these people, so why are the Americans wasting money?

So, why did City sign Grealish, why are they after Kane? Why did they sign Dias? Why did Pep sign Rodri?

Your argument falls flat on its head...

LORDLARGE:
Ain't got no time for endless arguments
And by the way this is my one and only moniker
Not replying you again though because it seems you've got an ample time to argue

You should never have replied in the first place...

chidexxy007:
You've said it all.

Lol Maguire to Bailly is drop in quality but Dias to Ake is improvement...

AWB to Dalot is drop in quality but Zichenko to Mendy is improvement abi?

Ederson to Steffen is improvement abi?

Mahrez to Silva is improvement abi?

Who be City CF sef? Greenwood is better than any you bring up talk less of Cavani but no, let's trash ours...

LORDLARGE:
This one dey ment I wonder if there's a price for winning this argument.
Solksjaer Remains the Coach till season if you like bring different team sheets Carrington is far away except if the shareholder here (who by the way is a minority shareholder)
Decides to ring the board nothing is happening to Ole
Know this and know peace

I don't know you, when you are ready, log in with your recognizable moniker...

chidexxy007:
The question is, why are we still clamouring for DM if we have McT that is better than one of the top 3 DMs in the league?

Must we be better than City in every position? When Liverpool won the league, were they better than City in every position?

macjireh:
united have players,, a coach but have no team...united can't finish top2 D's season... u can take D's to d bank

Abeg shift...

afrodoc2:
That question na JAMB question. Only the gods can answer it.

Doc, is DM the only position? While they might edge it, aren't we better in other areas?

GloryIsaac:
We wouldn’t miss Bruno if rested?

The same Bruno everyone was wailing for a year ago?

As in Bruno Fernandes?

Ok. This is the height of it. Trevor might as well be right lmao

You are yet to show us how City have a bigger squad with more quality...

After our recent signings, we can afford to rest Bruno read what you quoted again...

Una dey praise Ole for beating Pep, Klopp, Mourinho and other tip coaches but una no want give the players props...If you think Ole is a top coach for beating the aforementioned world class managers, why then do you think his players are inferior to those of the other teams?

GloryIsaac:
Almost every FPL manager has Bruno in their team because he’s a sure starter and point magnet.

KDB is a point magnet, but why is his ownership so low? Nobody knows if he’ll start or not. That should tell you the extent of quality in the depth of that team.

If e sure you, swap Bruno for KDB in your FPL. After all, both are point magnets.

People captained Mahrez in their numbers today, yet he didn’t start. They trust his quality enough to put the armband on him, yet his coach did not even start him.

A team that the only sure starter is their goalkeeper.

Smh

It tells you how much Pep trust his bench that he can rest KDB...If Ole maximize the potentials in our ranks, we wouldn't miss Bruno if he is rested especially now...

GloryIsaac:
Can’t you see that Pep can rotate his squad without a drop in quality? Except in the CF role.

Why else do you think you can’t pick Pep’s first XI?

If United drops to Dalot, defence on the right side is effectively weakened.

Varane has not kicked a ball but you added him to win argument. Well, that should tell you what you think of Lindelof.

Maguire to Bailly is a drop. No long discussions.

You put Fred, Pogba, Bruno in our first XI, so who’s the DM? Or United doesn’t play with DMs?

Who will deputize for Bruno? The VDB y’all castigate here?

The fact that you add Daniel James to win an argument is extremely laughable.

James can’t make City’s 2nd XI, but he somehow makes United’s. Isn’t that telling you anything?

By your logic, James is Sancho’s replacement... but you dare compare with Man City?

If McTom is in United’s Second XI and Fred is in the first, then how did the name “McFred” come about?



No wahala sha.. the target is Olé, so I get it.

So when City replace Ederson with Steffen they're strengthened?

Is Ake not a drop in quality? Who cost them the Community Shield?

Mendy for Zichenko, is that improvement or on par?

Fernandinho for Rodri? Lol...

Varane will start for any team in the world, that's not trashing Lindelof but showing you how good Varane is...If City signs Varane, Stones becomes a bench warmer...

For City, who is the equivalent of James? Delap?

If Bruno is not available, Pogba plays further forward...Unless you're saying Pogba is a drop in quality I don't get you...


You're struggling to prove City have more options but that's a lie that I have busted...

Is Jesus better than Greenwood?

Is Torres better than Martial?

Is Delap better than James/Lingard?


Even if McFred starts, that leaves us with another top talent on the bench to call upon..


Abeg take a look at City's second 11 vs ours and tell me we are inferior...Baba we are not in any way inferior to City...

Until proven otherwise, the difference is in the coaching staff...

City has a better team, they have more players, their squad depth is huge (more than ours), come and prove it now...

patrickmuf:
So, why are we talking about depth? KDB is City's first choice doesn't mean Grealish shouldn't have been bought or Foden promoted...

Our first team...

................................ De Gea.................................

........... AWB, - Varane - Maguire - Shaw............

........... ..........Fred - Pogba.........................

........................... .....Bruno....................................

................. Sancho - Cavani - Rashford................

City first 11...

..............................Ederson....................................

............ Cancelo - Stones - Dias - Zichenko........

............................ ...... Rodri...................................

...........................KDB - Gundogan........................

................ Mahrez - Sterling - Grealish.................


Manchester United 2nd 11...

.................................Henderson...........................

..............Dalot - Lindelof - Bailly - Telles.............

......................................Matic..................................

.................................VDB - McTom.........................

.............James - Greenwood - Martial...................


City 2nd 11

..................................Steffen...................................

..................Walker - Laporte - Ake - Mendy..........

............................. Fernandinho.............................

..............................Silva - Foden.............................

....................G. Jesus- Delap - Torres.....................

Abeg wetin I miss? Let's get this thing trashed today...

Combined 2nd eleven...

............................ Henderson................................

Walker............Lindelof....Laporte............Telles....

....................................Matic....................................

............................. Fred...Foden..............................

Greenwood.......... G. Jesus.......... Martial.............

GloryIsaac I dey wait...Even if you remove Fred for Silva, it's 6 for us against 5 for them...