₦airaland Forum

larride:
Honestly you have a point, it makes no sense leaving Fred on the bench. What’s the essence of buying him then when he knows he can trust to start matches for us. I remember Matic starting for us when he signed him. Mourinho is his own problem really. The board can’t be looking at Fred on the bench and still trust him with more money to buy players. It’s better they just send him packing. We can absolutely do better.

Exactly, you want the board to trust you with more cash yet you have you biggest summer signing always glued to the bench, who does that? Only Mourinho.

Heywhizzy:
Lol.. during Sane's World Cup snub, many were justifying his omission stating he's overrated.. many of them still insist Sterling and G. Jesus are overhyped, they tagged Bernardo as overrated seeing his performances for Portugal during the World Cup and before.. They don't still rate Stones at all, Mendy is unintelligent, Walker is all pace and power.. after all these, they conclude by saying Guardiola only plays with big names.. They only rate Silva, Aguero and De bruyne (safe for some few hazard addicts).. Yet he only coaches World class players

Half truths, the ones who said Sane is overrated are fans of Germany and Bayern here, I remember the argument that eschewed when Sane was omitted from the German team for the Mundial, many of us thought it was unfair but Dayo and A40 argued otherwise, don't attempt to pin this one on EPL fans, it won't stick.
As for Sterling, everybody here (EPL fans) acknowledges the vast improvement of Sterling, his only criticism is that he doesn't do or perform as well as he does for City when he turns up for the three lions.
G. Jesus is not under hyped, only time I can remember folks here talking down on him is when Pep somewhat shockingly picked him ahead of Kun. That was the period Dayo erroneously opined that Aguero was past it.
John Stones still polarizes opinion, he is a good passer of the ball and is very comfortable with the ball at his feat but can he defend? I'll leave you to answer that or more suiting, refer to Ibime's argument on why Laporte is not getting a look in by Deschamps.
Bernardo Silva is class, he might have struggled when he first joined City and that might have influenced the position people took. You should make reference to what a section of fans say, if we also check the threads of Barca and Madrid, don't you lots also underrate and overrate players? This beef against EPL clubs or City rivals because of Pep doesn't make sense.
As for Mendy, the jury is still out on him.
Walker was and in some instances still goes for pace and power rather than use his brain, even Pep admitted that he needed to work on him to play more with his head, so I don't get your point.

raumdeuter:
Which boredom? You mean the double standard I exposed for crediting VVD with the success of Liverpool defence when they keep a clean sheet but blame others when the defence fails

Lol it was fun while it lasted, VVD is a colossus at the back for Pool, you can only argue otherwise on Nairaland...
See you come the weekend.

raumdeuter:
Show me any intervention by Boateng on the CL final night that was closer to goal than this

Oga, Saturday is a couple of days away, this boredom will surely take the back seat.

raumdeuter:
This was the one closest to goal and the most crucial of his numerous intervention that night

The sliding tackle on Aguero was not really necesary as he could have stopped the move without the slide, the bottom line as that he stopped the move without a foul even though he didnt use the most efficient method

Hahaha how hard was it for you to come up with that? We can see through your half truths.

Olafisoyem:
Oga because one government has come does not mean the country still does not owe. They didn’t sign an agreement with Buhari or Jonathan they signed with Nigeria. Also if you even forget the contract.

1 we are the only opec member that has to import fuel.
2 we have become even more corrupt over the past few years.
3 the economy has become worse.

Even a blind man knows this so let’s face facts

Do you have the facts about the deal for you to say we should honor a judgement by a court in foreign lands for a contract in Nigeria?

Too many foolish idiots on this forum, 9 billions dollars as if we killed the Queen...

raumdeuter:
You see this vital goal line interception to deny a sure goal?

https://j.gifs.com/vbo79r.gif

As usual, look for one scenario that support your argument and stand by it...
How about the interception (sliding interception) after Messi attempted to break through the middle??
How about the sliding interception on Kun? Those gifs are all of a sudden missing?

raumdeuter:
Interception can either be by foot or by head. When you stop an intended pass to an atacker thats interception

Clearance is for Sodje level defenders that will just toe the ball anywhere on the field. Boateng made a lot of key interceptions in the world cup final which made him great

Lol all those slide tackles were interceptions? Dayo, if you don't fear anybody here, please fear God for he is the giver of life...���

raumdeuter:
The stats you showed yesterday he has less interceptions than other defenders which is the key stat for defenders

When they concede its not its fault, when they keep clean sheet its kudos to VVD

Lol see me see wahala, so interception is now the key stat for defenders? Headers won, clearances, tackles etc are now irrelevant? But you never hesitate to flood this thread with sliding tackles made by Boateng...Whatever serves you at a particular time is the standard?

raumdeuter:
Because as a Central defender your ability to stop goals not score is what actually matters

Lol Hiero and Ramos are strikers then.

After Germany opened the scoring, Dayo rushed to mention me, just checked and saw that VVD scored the equalizer...
Raumdeuter, you should be honest enough to also give me a mention.

eph12:
I am not even sure what this argument is about sef. is it that VVD is a bad defender or that he is good but others in his team do better than him or that he's not the key man in that defense. I don't exactly what it is

Whether ror not he is responsible for the marked improvement in the Liverpool defence.

raumdeuter:
Its basic logic

Are you watching Germany vs Holland, Do you see the role of VVD in the goal Holland conceded. VVD vs Gnabry duel leading to that goal

I am sure they will blame everyone including Karius for that goal

The thing with you guys is that you'll be here to always highlight every near error he makes, you should tell me which great defender didn't make mistakes leading to goals, not Ramos, not Maldini, not Vidic or the likes...
I should be here shouting how good Stones with each passing game considering the lengthy argument I had with the anti-Stones crusaders here last season but no, they had their points which also made sense so no need rubbing it on their faces, his present exploits.

eph12:
What's your opinion on the tackling stats there?

From their passing stats sef, VVD is doing much better than the rest

I am tired of arguing over something we shouldn't be arguing about at all.

raumdeuter:
ask patrikmuf afolabi

Played less yet he dominates in the stats which are crucial when analyzing a CB.

In your other post, you talk about Boateng, Puyol, Vidic in comparison to the number of goals their respective teams conceded but you forgotten they didn't play alongside average Joe's and inexperienced colleagues...Those team they played in were at some point the best in the world and went on to dominate their domestic leagues, same can't be said of Liverpool who are not even the best in England.

raumdeuter:
If its not Lindelof should we credit Smalling or Jones rather than DDG that was making the saves

How many shots on goal does De Gea make per game compared to Allison or rather, how many shots on goal has Allison had to deal with compared to Karius without VVD?

raumdeuter:
You said I am misrepresenting you but tell me what is the purpose of your past 6 post? Is it not to tell us that the Leadership of VVD is why Liverpool is conceding less?

Ok from what you said. Liverpool was playing Milner as a makeshift LB but changed him to Robertson, they were playing Lovren Matip and Klavan which they changed to Gomez and VVD, they were playing TAA who was new and playing some of his first senior games.

Now they have a world record keeper in their ranks yet all you have wanted us to believe all the while is that the defence improved because of VVD

Not because of world record keeper, not because of Robertson, not because of TAA who has improved and had several outstanding performances vs top opponents including Sane and even Ronaldo. Its because of VVD

Messi and Ronaldo get the credit because of what they show on the field

Last CL final match win, the credit went to Bale because he was the one who scored the winning goals not Ronaldo for leadership

2017 CL final match the credit went to Ronaldo because of what he did on the field not any leadership

So, you have not been watching VVD on the field? You laid claims to the over 10 goals Liverpool conceded but when Airmark asked you to highlight just 5 goals that was directly caused by VVD you retracted.
If you don't want to give VVD his due accolades citing the marked improvements of others around him, why should we recognize the contributions of Boateng, Vidic, Ramos, Puyol etc Didn't they have even better team mates than VVD currently have at Pool?

raumdeuter:
So how can you be arguing against the same logic now?

Why didn't you say it was Mourinho who improved the defence or that it was the new big money signing Lindelof that made the defence better when it was obvious that DDG was the one doing the heavy lifting

How many games did Lindelof play? VVD is a constant in that Liverpool defence, same can't be said of Lindelof at United...

raumdeuter:
Liverpool before the arrival of VVD was playign Moreno, Matip Klavan and Karius. Almost all of these players have been shipped off the first team and replaced by young players and expensive transfers.

The difference from Liverpool of early last season to now is a world record keeper, a Robertson Gomez and TAA who have continued to develop and VVD

To attribute all the credit to VVD is false and illogical

Messi and Ronaldo get all the plaudits because they get the most scorer points in this teams. Unless Ronaldo gets the most scorer points when Juve wins the CL then he cannot be the reason they won

I asked you if Juve won the CL by strong defensive performances and scoring very little, will we still credit Ronaldo for it?

If Juve wins the CL with Dybala scoring 15, Costa assisting 13 while Ronaldo contributed 3 goals + assist will you still credit that to Ronaldo just because he was in the team

Whoever is attributing it all to VVD, why do you like misrepresenting people? It's not fair.
Now, I noticed you deliberately left out Clyne who has just been unlucky with injury, TAA only came into the team because of his absence. Also, Moreno has been binned for the past few seasons for Milner and later, Robertson so it is mischievous for you to talk about Liverpool's defense and include Moreno who is has not been a regular for sometime.
Liverpool's defense before the arrival of VVD had Robertson on the left, Matip and Lovren through the middle and TAA at LB.
When VVD came in, he replaced Matip and that was the major change in their defense prior to this summer when Allison came in to replace Karius and Gomez took the place of Lovren who struggled with injury earlier in the campaign. The only significant changes have been VVD and Allison. Now, if you are asked who is to be credited for such marked improvement in their defense will you say nobody (collective effort)? If yes, then why was Vidic so highly rated when he had Rio, Neville and Evra with VDS between the sticks?
Why is Ramos so highly rated or Varane when they play alongside other great defenders? In your bid to throw mud at VVD you suddenly recognize that TAA is that good, Robertson and Gomez are all exceptional when in all honesty, only Robertson is good enough to have a look in that back 4 bar VVD.

If we praise Messi and Ronaldo for scoring the most goals, why then shouldn't we single out a defender for praises for his aerial domination, blocks, tackles and leadership qualities from the back?

raumdeuter:
nihilist once gave an analysis when people were saying Mourinho improved Man utd defence last season.

He showed that DDG was facing more shots and saving more shots than the average EPL top keeper

So how can we claim the Man utd defence improved when the keeper is still facing more shots.

That is critical reasoning and deduction not just following what people said

If na patrickmuf he will say it was Mourinho that arranged the defence to concede more shots that was responsible for less goals conceded or better still Man utd record defence signing Victor Lindelof

You can go back to that thread, I argued in favor of De Gea.

raumdeuter:
Did you read what you posted? You said

"Even if it is a coincidence that their defense became noticeably better upon his arrival due to his qualities or the improvement of those around him, most folks will still attribute it to his arrival considering his transfer fee"

So even if facts disagree with it, its what people think that matters?

Thats why I always stress critical reasoning and sifting the wheat from the chaff.

Last year Liverpool got to the CL final conceding 10 goals in 4 matches, Many people say VVD in defence was the reason they got to the final, Do you agree that VVD in a defence that conceded 10 goals in 4 games is the reason they made the final or instead the logical thing which is the fearsome attack that kept scoring non stop

Liverpool has 3 rookies in defence last year who have matured, One of them is regarded as the best LB in the league they now added the most expensive keeper in the world to it then you will say its VVD

Man utd is your team, If your offence is scoring more Martial Rashford Lukaku are the ones scoring more goals and creating more assists, we should still give the credit to Alexis because he was recently signed, and he is on the highest salary


Which leadership did he bring? The same fraudulent leadership they claimed Terry was bringing while doing nothing. It seems some people get swayed by all these activity forming on the field waving hand like traffic warden while not doing much

At United Sanchez is not a regular so, you can't say the same.
In football, we have the attack, midfield and defense so whether or not the attack is doing well, you still have to shore up your defense, the comparison here is Liverpool of the present vs Liverpool before the arrival of VVD which was better defensively? Definitely the present team so whether or not others around VVD have improved, you can't take it away from him s the leader of that defense just as no matter how well Suarez or Dybala plays, Messi and Ronaldo will always get the plaudits.
About their run to the final last year, the folks you're trying to misrepresent their comments opined that he improved their defense hence their run to the final, no where did they undermine the contribution of their attack. Let's be honest, if your remove VVD and replace him with Matip, then the chances of Liverpool getting the better of City over two legs will have been very slim.

raumdeuter:
This is the simplest thing to decode. This thing called logic is very simple and I'm shocked you're also caught in the shekpe fan lack of logic.

Hypothetically if Juventus should win the ucl with ronaldo scoring the bulk of the goals then it will be straight forward that he improved the team to win

But If Juventus won the CL by playing defensively solid scoring few goals but by not conceding, it will be fraudulent to give Ronaldo that credit rather the defense

Or if Juventus won while dybala was top scorer scoring 15 goals in the CL alone, Costa assisting much more then while ronaldo only scored 2 goals, then explain logically why the credit should go to Ronaldo and not to the others

Liverpool got to the CL final last year conceding 10 goals but scoring more than their opponents in games with hockey scoreline

How will any rational person claim it was the defense that conceded 10 goals in 4 games that made them

Liverpool last season had 3 very young defenders, who have gotten older and better. Some even regard Robertson as the best left back in the league but somehow it's vvd that gets all the credit.

They added the world record keeper signing to it but someone there improvement credit only goes to VVD.

Does that make any sense?

Vidic got a lot of credit even when he had Rio, Evra, Neville as part of the defense. Now the credit he got wasn't necessarily cos others weren't putting in a shift, it was cos he was the main cog that held the defense together and that's the same role VVD is playing in that Liverpool back 4, he has brought leadership and a commanding presence to that defense, he deserves the plaudits he is getting.

Remember the argument has always been whether or not VVD has improved that team. Even if it is a coincidence that their defense became noticeably better upon his arrival due to his qualities or the improvement of those around him, most folks will still attribute it to his arrival considering his transfer fee (he was bought to bring stability and leadership and you can't argue otherwise since his arrival).

If we shouldn't single out VVD for special praises then Messi, Ronaldo and the likes should also not be praised after all, they're not doing it alone.

No sane person should argue otherwise when people say VVD and Allison have vastly improved Liverpool.
I see Dayo saying Gomez, Robertson and Arnold have grown a year older and hence more experienced, if Juventus win the UCL and we play down the influence of Ronaldo up top citing the fact that Dybala, Costa and a host of other players in the squad have grown a year older hence more experienced, I hope nobody will come here shouting Dillard?
You guys just like arguing even when there's no need for arguments.

TonyeBarcanista:
This is sad and another low for the APC federal government that permitted this madness

Who is the chief security officer of the State? Buhari or Udom?
You're too enlightened to be behind this kind of ridiculous insinuations.

kokaneprodigy:
What rubbish conspiracy talk be this

Las las you go dey alright...

They seem to be a plot to embarrass De Gea, watch that game, Spain vs England and you'll see how easy it was for England to cut Spain open, maybe they're upset with the failed move to Madrid...Ramos has been horrible, he should retire.

Very wrong time for the international break...

[quote author=Roland17 post=72915807][/quote]Gerrarahia...

[quote author=Roland17 post=72915807][/quote]Haha Roland abeg leave me...

Now the dust has settled, let me rant...
If Fred had signed for City, he'd have been starting yesterday with Fernandinho on the bench but no, the fool who encouraged the club to pay mega bucks for him didn't even consider him good enough to start or play any role in the encounter, dude must be asking himself serious questions.

Elampiro, how does Mou convince the board with this attitude of his? Bailly was on the bench, Fred was on the bench, Sanchez was on the bench, Dalot is almost always out injured, Lukaku has been all over the place...Of his signings, only Lindelof (he is only starting cos Jones can't keep fit even if his life depended on it) and Pogba, the rest are glued to the bench, if you're Ed, will you still trust his decision making?
At City, Pep starts over 80% if not more of his signings, Mahrez, Walker, Stones, Bernardo Silva, Mendy (after a long injury lay off) and Ederson, now tell me why the board wouldn't oblige him when next he demands they splash the cash?
Mourinho is his own problem, apart from his negative approach to games, he hasn't spent wisely, he should be booted out asap.