₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
The Catholic Church emerged after the death of all Jewish disciples of Jesus and it's a political leader that championed the initiation of the Roman Catholic Church.
Jesus used a parable to help people in our time know what will happen when his Jewish disciples are no more.

Jesus said:


Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared. “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’ “ ‘An enemy did this,’ he replied. “The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’ “ ‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’ ” ‭Matthew 13:24-30 NIV‬


Jesus is the sower and his Jewish disciples are the seeds Satan is the enemy who sowed sons of disobedience among Jesus' disciples but as long as his Jewish disciples live these apostates can't form a group they only criticize the Apostles while seeking to establish their own rules. After the death of all the apostles and elders in Jerusalem {Matthew 13:25} the apostates seek the support of a Roman emperor to establish their own religion and forced it on anyone who wants to stick to the teachings of the Apostles.
That is the reason why Romans used the armies to force Catholicism in many places but despite their cruelty many were protesting against the forceful rule of the Catholic as the emperor is giving his own people the needed support after all it's about his own political ambitions.
So the idea that Peter was the first Pope is a political lie that's what politicians do after the death of anyone who is fighting for justice they will claim they are his disciples but in reality they wouldn't have accepted him if he is alive.
The rest of these churches protested continually until they got their freedom to start their own churches after the fall of Roman empire!😟

Should I take it to mean therefore that you are saying the Bible is lying in Mathew 16:16 where Jesus told Peter that upon him He will build His church?

And also, the Acts of the Apostles is also lying for saying that after the Holy Spirit came upon the Apostles at the Pentecost, Peter, as leader, came out and addressed the crowd?

Dtruthspeaker:
There are several fallacies that involve changing or ignoring the topic of an argument. These fallacies include:
Irrelevant Conclusion (or Ignoratio Elenchi): The broader, formal name for missing the point.

Red Herring: The deliberate attempt to change the subject.
Moving the Goalposts:.

And your response is a departure from post as I even explained that the issue is not about Jesus Christ, original sin and breast milk. So you have deviated from the issue and therefore you people have no justification for your actions.

Oga, did you say Mary is not holy or not?

A man of principle who doesn’t want to dine with vultures.

Hopefully he survives the onslaught against him.

Only that our courts have become useless and nobody obeys their orders anymore.

Dtruthspeaker:
Fallacy of Change of Post! The issue is not about Jesus Christ, original sin and breast milk .

So you see, you people have no justification for your actions

First, there’s nothing like Fallacy of Change of Post.

Second, the instance I gave you does not in any shape or form deviate from the topic of discourse because we are talking about Mary’s holiness.

So, don’t dodge the question and answer me.

Vagabondddds!

So we had to force them not to pardon hardened criminals through our consistent protests.

Now they are acting like they didn’t know the first list had names of drug lords, kidnappers and other notorious criminals.

Jokers!

Dtruthspeaker:
Do you not know that hail is the greeting hello or hail oo as Nigerians would say?

And the follow up sentence of full of grace, is it not exactly what we say in "better woman wey God love and God dey with".

Is this not the same greeting we greet people who are well behaved?

No where did the angel call her holy (where even Jesus Said no one is holy, yet you people have holified Mary) or queen or a person who gives life and sweetness and hope.

"Hail holy Queen, Mother of Mercy, hail our life, our sweetness, and our hope"

The angels salutation is very clear and understandable and within normal limits as we do the same to people who are better than us that is the people who we call goody goody and God fearing people. But none of these were worshipped.

Jesus Christ was both Man and God because he had flesh, lived with men, ate the foods they ate, had feelings also, etc.

The only thing different between Jesus and the rest of men is that he had no Original Sin.

Now, justify how it was possible for Jesus Christ to have been born without Original Sin if the womb that carried her for 9 months and whose breast milk He suckled had Original Sin.

I’m sure some people won’t be happy with this news.

They would wish the entire Southeast is ravaged by insecurity.

Meanwhile, we’ve transferred the insecurity to Kwara and Ondo, and instead they will be calling the governors and president out like we did ours, they are playing ostrich; burying their heads in the sand while their villages are on fire and their kith and kin being massacred.

Dtruthspeaker:
You think people do not see nor know about the 100 chants of hall Mary's you recite just like ifa priests do during Easter as you people chant through the 4 sets of supposed mysteries which your priests say you should do every day and we all know Catholics who chant them from time to time? Please, man, this is not even the issue.



No need to repeat yourself for I just pointed out that your "Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy, hail our life, our sweetness, and our hope" and the rest, is proof of worship.

The angel did not even greet her like this meanwhile it is exactly the same one the Romans gave to their gods.

So, here we see that they have chosen Mary and made her a god just like June aka Juno and the they have made you people to worship Mary as a god just like they did to Juno.

You don't even have this kind of worship for the disciples, so clearly you people are guilty of worshipping Mary and turning her into a demigod

Can you tell us how Angel Gabriel greeted Mary as recorded in Luke 1:26-28?

Dtruthspeaker:
It is not hail Mary full of grace that is offence but the "Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy, hail our life, our sweetness, and our hope" and the rest.

The angel did not even greet her like this.

But this declaration is definitely excessively too much and it is definitely the kind fitting for a demigod. And it is exactly the same one the Romans gave to their gods.

And the Romans are known for paganism and for pursuing gods to acquire them.

So, here we see that they have chosen Mary and made her a god just like June aka Juno

So the Romans have made you people to worship Mary as a god. (Idolatry)

You don't even have this kind of worship for the disciples upon whom and through whom Jesus reestablished His Rule.

No Catholic prays the Hail Mary in the way you described it.

And tell me what’s wrong in ‘honouring’(not worshiping) the woman who bore the messiah?

If God chose her out of all possible virgins He could have chosen from, do you not think she’s special and have a special place?

Amah70:
Anioma is not disunited from the Igbo. Anioma is Igbo as southsouth state.
Talk of reunification of Anioma to the southeast through making Anioma a stste for the southeast is figment of imagination of the uninitiated ones who have little sense.

Anioma will be created as 6th Southeast state and there’s nothing you will do about it.

Softmirror:
I was expecting you to give me a biblical reference to the funeral rites of Roman Catholic Popes. At least, we can make reference to Jesus in the Bible, even Lazarus is an example.

How is the Pope buried differently from the way Christ was buried?

Or you just have issues with the fact that Cardinals, Archbishops, Bishops, Priests and world leaders attend the funeral?

I can feel it that Anambra election will be free and fair because Amu just came in and he’d want to buy our trust with his first election.

If he messes up Anambra election then his tenure is over in the eyes of Nigerians. So, he knows that he has to deliver.

I just wish Soludo can be voted out but I don’t see the enthusiasm of Ndi Anambra in the election and in booting out the ineffectual and bitter Solo Nwamgbafor.

Until Nov 8 sha

jmoore:
Jesus is the only intercessor we have.

Jesus is the way. Not Mary is the way.

These are things obvious in the bible.

Almost all your points can't be backed with a bible verse. You are using emotions to prove your point, which is very wrong.

I gave biblical citation for almost all my points.

Why don’t you rather tell me which one is wrong instead.

Ezeama400:
Why not ask questions above the points you made above instead of attacking Catholic Church ?
The same Catholic Church christianity emanated from if you are good with history of Christianity and how other churches came to existence..

Nonsense thread !!

Are you sure you read this thread sir?

Alfred200825

Softmirror:
In a nut shell, that is a Roman Pagan tradition. Case closed.

You don’t mean it.

Tell me how your church buries her pastors and where it is in the Bible.

Softmirror:
The funeral rites when a Pope dies. Where is it enshrined in the Bible or the teachings of the apostles?! You know, a Roman Catholic Pope Died recently.

The way your village people bury someone that dies in your village, which book prescribed that they should be doing the burial that way and not incinerate the corpse and pack the ashes like Indians?

Every other day you find Protestants with zero knowledge of the Catholic Church, its doctrines and theology, deriding her and forming opinion about her practices.

The most recent of them just made front page listing 10 things the Catholic Church does that Apostles didn’t.

Now, this is a response to that piece and I’m going to try and respond to each point raised one after another.

1) The Apostles didn’t pray Rosary to Mary.

Answer:
Mary lived with the Apostles, so, why did they need to pray to her when she was living and communing with them? Maybe the Protestants should educate us where Mary was ever disrespected by the Apostles or called an envelope like their theology teaches.

The Place of Mary in the lives of Christians was cemented in Luke 1:26-38, when Angel Gabriel appeared to her and said, “Hail Mary, full of grace, the lord is with you. Blessed are you amongst women and blessed is the fruit of your womb - Jesus.”

So, if there was anybody who first prayed to and honoured Mary, it was Angel Gabriel. Who are mere mortals and sinners to think they know better than God?

Let me give you a local but very relatable example.

Till this day, Politicians in Nigeria flock in the home of the Yaradua Matriarch, the woman who gave birth to a President and Vice President. Why? Now, remember that this is woman who is barely aware of her surrounding nor does she have control of her cognitive faculties. But politicians and even ordinary Nigerians still pay homage to her.

But somehow, Protestants want us to treat the mother of the messiah as a mere envelope that God merely used to fulfill His purpose and then discarded.

Does that make sense to you?

2) The Apostles didn’t pray to the dead.

Answer:
I believe that by praying to the dead they have the Catholics’ reverence for saints in mind.

Now I have a question. Are we, Christians of today, in same pedestal with the Apostles who suffered persecution with Jesus Christ and even suffered martyrdom in some cases in their bid to propagate the gospel that we now know today?

The Catholic Church reverence these people, Peter, Paul, Mathew, James, John, etc, for the role they played in enduring the persecution of early days of Christianity to preserve the gospel. It’s similar to same way we Nigerians honour Sir Herbert Macaulay, Nnamdi Azikiwe, Obafemi Awolowo and Ahmadu Bello for roles they played in ensuring we gained independence from the British. Now, can anyone tell me what is wrong with such honour?

3) The Apostles didn’t do satanic processions.

Answer:
What is satanic in procession?

Again, how did the Wall of Jericho fall? Joshua got the Israelites to “process” around the wall of the city until he blew the trumpet and the wall came down.

Now, if Joshua and the Israelites processed, what is satanic about procession?

4). The Apostles didn’t go to Mass.

Answer:
This is the most laughable of all the claims because at the Last Supper, Jesus Christ broke bread and blessed wine and gave it to His disciples with strict command, “Do this in remembrance of me.” (1 Cor 11:23-26)

Again, the Acts of the Apostle is replete with the Apostles coming together to break bread and share communion which was where Stephen was appointed the first ever Deacon to assist with coordination of the event. (Acts 6:1-15)

This coming together of the Apostles and disciples is what the Catholic Church has sustained till today in the Mass, and some people dare condemn it?

5). The Apostles didn’t wear Scapular

Answer:
Says someone who is most probably hanging the image of his Daddy GO in both his car and his home.

When would the traducers of the Catholic understand that these iconoclasms are intended to preserve the images of the Jesus, Mary and the Apostles in the minds of Christians?

And yes, if you believe that the image of your Daddy GO can scare away the devil and keep bad energies away, we also believe that the images of Jesus and Mary (Scapular), the origin of our faith, can do even much more in scaring the devil and keep bad energies away.

6). The Apostles didn’t do infant baptism.

Answer:
What is wrong with infant baptism?

“Catch them young” and “train up a child in a way he should go and when he grows up he will not depart” are both commands of the Bible. So, who is hurt by the infant being baptized and set on the path of redemption of an early age?

7). The Apostles didn’t believe in Purgatory.

Answer:
If our God is a just God as the Bible says (Deut 32:4), then tell me if He would send a dead mother who once stole bread from a supermarket to feed her hungry children to same place he would send dead murderers, cultists and rapists?

If your answer is yes, then tell me where is God’s justness?

And if your answer is no, then where would the woman who stole bread because of her hungry children atone for her misdeed since no soul with stain can enter heaven?

Your sincere answers to the question above will give you the answer to the doctrine of Purgatory.

8]. The Apostles didn’t use Holy Water.

Answer:
2 Kings 5:10, and Elisha asked Namaan to go and dip himself 7 times in the Jordan River and when Namaan did, he was completely healed.

Now, till this day, most of the Protestants deriding the Catholic still go to the river to do their baptism. Why?

Now, the Catholic Church has instead said, that instead of asking people to go and jump in Lagos lagoons like Namaan did, the water can be brought closer to home in small containers and when prayed over can still possess the magical powers that the Jordan River performed on Namaan.

An aside: If you don’t already know, take your time to find out about the magical powers of salt and water. You will be marveled.

9). The Apostles didn’t claim Peter a Pope

Answer:
The Apostles didn’t have to call Peter by the name “Pope” but they accepted his leadership as ordained by Jesus Christ in Mathew 16:16 when He said to Peter, “You are Peter and upon this Rock I will build my church and gate of hades shall never prevail.” If that wasn’t Christ installing Peter as the first Pope, then what was it?

Again, throughout the Acts of the Apostles, the rest of the Apostles queued behind Peter in acceptance of his leadership. For example, on the day of Pentecost, Peter, though unlettered, was the one who addressed the crowd when they came out.

So, what do Protestants have issues with? With the nomenclature “Pope” or that Peter was not the leader of the Apostles?

10) The Apostles didn’t bow to idols.

Answer:
Name the idols that Catholics bow to.

In conclusion, the Catholic Church and Catholics go about their faith without prying into the way of life of other denominations. Can you people kindly let us be and educate yourself and know that every doctrine of the Catholic Church has its root in either the Bible or Apostolic Tradition passed down through the Apostles through the generations.

Penguin is a bird of reason 🦅 .

Jesusjnr2020

Armaggedon:
you are asking him to trust you? Is he not from Rivers state? Anioma state creation is south east gain and South South loss. South South has enjoyed unmerited influence over the years due to the Igbo speaking area that was fraudulently given to them. Having Igbo speaking areas in South South gives Rivers state a bargaining chip and a prime position in the region. Ironically, they have not used this influence to better their lives but to hurt Igbo interest and promote Igbophobic agenda at the highest level. Ceding anioma to the south east will reduce Igbo speaking population of the south South and make Efik/Ibibio ethnicity majority people in the south South. To give you an example, the headquarters of South South Development Commission is in Uyo against Port Harcourt that traditionally gets such. Again, there are feelings the NDDC will be scrapped and be replaced with oil and gas producing states commission with more states.

Understand why the young man is rejecting a state not being created for him!

Fergie001 is from Abia and not Rivers.

And trust me, I’m willing to sacrifice Igbos being the majority in Southsouth for the reunification of Anioma with the rest of the Igbos.

It’s going to be the prelude and precursor to many more of such reunification.

Ijaws can have their headquarters wherever they dim fit.

sharone21:
GOD FORBID.....Our South region is COMPLETE already....You can have your Adada or Etiti State. LEAVE people wen no want you ALONE. You want to drag Edo/ Igala/ Olukunmi people into East because of name and language and force us so we don't have any choice. Not again. We were NEVER part of your region even in the past. What our foreparents forbid, we too FORBID it.

WE the ABORIGINALS VEHEMENTLY reject this.

Speak for yourselves NOT for us. We have NOTHING in common with you.

Have you heard of the name, “Sir Dennis Osadebey”?

jmoore:
Innoson never relocate, na Roxettes of yesterday wan relocate.

Just another fabricated tale from unknown source that doesn't exist.

I think it’s a deliberate PR stunt to keep them in the news.

They are going to let this fly for a while and then come out to debunk it. In all, visibility is gained and Roxettes is discussed.

It’s a strategy.

They started in the East when things were worse. Na now dem wan relocate.

Akuko mbe na agu.

jesusjnr2020:
10 Things Catholics Do That The Apostles Didn't

1. The apostles didn't pray to Mary.
2. They didn't pray to the dead.
3. They didn't do satanic processions.
4. They didn't go to mass.
5. Scapular.
6. Infant baptism.
7. They didn't believe in purgatory.
8. They didn't use holy water.
9. They didn't call Peter a pope.
10. They didn't bow down or worship idols.

So where did the Catholic church get these practices from?

Certainly not from the apostles or the early church.

God bless.

Why don’t you start by naming the idols that Catholics worship?

Second, Mary lived with the Apostles, why did they need to pray to who they were living with? Maybe you should tell us if the Apostles ever disrespected her or called her an envelope like your theology teaches.

Third, by pray to the dead, you mean saints? So you do not recognize the difference between you and the people who lived with Jesus and suffered martyrdom in some cases to propagate this faith you are now forming opinion on? Like, what makes you think you or your pastor should share same pride of place with Apostle Paul?

And to Purgatory, do you believe that God will send a woman who stole bread 🍞 from a supermarket to feed her hungry children to the same place He would send murderers and cultists?

[quote author=Gotocourt post=137249669]Church Doctrines🤷🏿

Well, religion is a tool for control developed by empires. Think about it 📌💯

fergie001:
I don't support the creation of more States, that is not our immediate problem.

Moreover, the moment they create one for the S/East, it will be two from the South West, 2 from the South South, three from the North Central, 3 from the North East and maybe 6 from the North West.

Please, you people should leave it like this abeg or even think of merging unproductive ones.

Anioma State should be created and merged with the Southeast. It’s going to be viable. It has every potential to be.

If other regions start clamouring for more states, that would be petty and they would be seen as enemies of Ndigbo.

Trust me, Anioma State is a fine deal.

Why did he not sack Kayode Egbetokun too?

And why did he retain and elevate Gen Oluyemi?

Paddy man things!

Not like I’m surprised. That would be waste of surprise.😏

anonimi:
Please don’t blame us o.

We are just following the example of Aṣiwaju ọmọlúwàbís.

Meanwhile, how do we know that these people are Fulanis without seeing their cows

Omo eh! There’s nothing the man did not do to sound politically correct just because he was expecting their votes.

Well, fair play to him because it worked for him.

Maybe it’s because of the coup scare, if not I see no reason why Tinubu should sack the Service Chiefs.

General Christopher Musa, to me, was doing brilliantly well as CDS.

I’ve not observed lapses from the Army nor the Navy.

This change was obviously informed by the coup scare.

They stay fixated on issues of Abia, Alex Otti and Southeast, and in telling Anioma people to deny their Igbo heritage while their kith and kin are being slaughtered like chickens in Kwara.

It’s most troubling that the monikers whose voices are usually the highest whenever a trailer fails break at Ugwu Onyeama in Enugu usually disappear whenever there’s report of ethnic cleansing in Kwara.

I’ve never seen a people like this.

God forbid I or my tribe will ever become this self-sabotaging for whatever reason at all.

Fiakwa!

hotseat:
Mr Odinkalu, please, watch your utterances!

IPOB, undeniably, set the tone for the different criminal activities going on in the SE.

IPOB was viewed as a symbol of resistance by many Igbos and as time went on, other criminal gangs hijacked it to cause mayhem.

To now blame politicians solely for the predicament being faced by the people of the SE is tantamount to deflecting the role of IPOB in the creation of the descent to anarchy and wanton bloodshed.

The SE simply sowed the wind and are now reaping the whirlwind.

No amount of deflections or deodorization of the originating role of IPOB in all of these would work.

Odinkalu: call a spade by its name!




@hotseat

You are right. IPOB set the tone. But they are not completely responsible for the carnage that is currently going on in the entire region. That’s the point Odinkalu is making.

I watched the interview and Odinkalu didn’t exonerate IPOB but only trying to educate those who attribute every incident in the region to IPOB.

IPOB would never kidnap Igbos and demand ransom; and sometimes kill victims after ransom has been paid.

Every Nkwo market day, you find irritants who have zero knowledge of what is going on in the Southeast giving their opinion and questioning Peter Obi’s stance on insecurity in the region, but we know what’s going on.

80% of the killings in the East has nothing to do with IPOB but political mercenaries or sponsored murderers who were activated to destabilize our region.

But as always, Igbos will recover from this.

We’ve recovered from worst.

chidiokay:
Like i said i am a realist ! Peter Obi couldnt have won the election thats one thing i am very sure ... base on the single fact that Atiku n Obi shared votes (PDP ÷ 2)

i believe Tinubu won Rivers cos ... APC now own 99% of that state while Labour party is still struggling to have a genuine national chairman moving forward

Peter Obi can 3rd its illogical to compare with 1st when 2nd exist, you serious believe Peter obi had more votes than Tinubu base on what geopolitical permutations

Atiku n Peter obi are both PDP members they both contested jointly in 2019 ... isnt it logical they shared there supporters after sharing supporters you still expect Peter obi to have massive vote to win .. ..as Mko abiola

How did Buhari win Incumbent 2015, if Buhari couldnt win alone, how Peter Obi wan take win alone lets be reality

This idea of PDP dividing their votes was planted by APC to justify their rigging.

Why didn’t votes count?

Why was the IREV shutdown?

You keep saying you are a realist but it seems your own realism is only restricted to looking at the future.

Have you looked at the past realistically? Why are you talking as if 2023 election was perfect? As if you didn’t see all the tippexing that happened on result sheets.

And did you say yes that Tinubu won Rivers in 2023?