₦airaland Forum

101

hmm

Janosky:
Oga Perfectbeing, desperately clutching at straws..... OK nau... Let's go there....

Questions for you:
Who conceived the idea " let us make human figure......"?
How many persons conceived the idea ?
Who takes the glory for the idea ,..."Let us make.."
Who worked to achieve the idea ?

The question isn't who conceived the idea or who takes the glory... The question is what does the statement mean?

Jozzy4:
Romans 11:39 says the Father made all things THROUGH himself. He needed no Jesus to made all things.

Question: What was Made through The Father to make this claim ?

Your bible has Romans 11:39?

Perfectbeing:
OK lets take this to the beginning.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god," John 1:1, NWT

Instead of the final words, look at the opening words: "In the beginning was the Word." It does not say, "In the beginning the Word came into being" or "In the beginning God created the Word." It says that in the beginning the Word already "was." In the beginning, the Word is already there. The Word does not have a beginning. Rather, the Word is already present in the beginning. Such a phrase implies an uncreated being. If someone were to say "In the beginning was Jehovah," such a phrase would not imply that Jehovah was a created being. It would point to the exact opposite of that. So, too, when such a phrase is applied to the Word.

Notice what verse 2 says immediately afterwards.
"This one was in the beginning with God," (John 1:2)
In the same way that God "was" in the beginning, so too the Word "was" in the beginning. Driving the same point home, the next verse explains:

"All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence," (John 1:3).
Note that all things came into existence through Him. Indeed, not even one thing came into existence except through Him. If The Word were Himself a creation, this would be utter nonsense!
He could not come into existence through Himself. If He came into existence, He would be one thing that came into existence that did not come into existence through the Word. But the verse here is emphatic: not even one thing came into existence apart from Him. When we ask which god the Word is, we must say that He is the eternal, uncreated creator. He is the God who brought all things into being and who Himself had no beginning. He is the "god" of Genesis 1

For some reason Janosky has decided not to reply this.

Janosky:
1)
When I say I built something by myself what does that statement means?
Jehovah made this statement in the content and context of Isaiah 44:9-24, to show the huge disparity between Himself and the idol gods of Israel.
Isaiah 44:23 Jehovah is glorifying Himself.
Genesis 1:1,27,31. Jehovah is glorifying Himself.
Full stop.
In Genesis,Jehovah God is "I",His, He , not 3.

2).
The word and the Father are not the same.
Why ?
John 17:24... FACT.

Also, John 1:1-2 English" The Word was with God".
John 1:1-2 Greek "the Word was facing towards the God.
That is,Two different Beings..
Hebrews 1:1-2 is still sacrosanct.


Genesis 1:26 was a conversation , Jehovah spoke to others (Job38:4-7 sons of God (Angels) existed before man. Jesus , angels and man exists in God's image,Why ? They were CREATED.).
Does God exists in anyone's image ?
Not at all !

Proverbs 8:22 Jehovah CREATED Wisdom (the Word Jesus Christ ,1Cor1:24,30) to work with Jehovah' during the Creation. (Progressive information and revelations in the holy Scriptures).

In Genesis 1:26, After the speech , in verse 27, "God created man in his image."
God is "I", He, His etc, singular "God is a Spirit" ,so says Jesus(John 4:24), NOT Spirits.

Does animals and other non living things also exist in God's image since they were also created?

In order for you to butress your point you had to say angels too were also created in the image of God.. I guess also in his likeness..

Now imagine I have a piece of clay and I say "hey Janosky, let us make a human like figure out of this clay" what would I mean by that?

Janosky:
You are taking the glory for the work done.
Coach Westerhoof won the Afcon Nations Cup in 1994, Oga Perfectbeing, Na Westerhoof score the winning goals?

Hebrews 1:1-2.
Jehovah is saying that the idols of Israel(Isaiah 44:9-20) NEVER CREATED anything !
Jehovah did !(Isaiah 44:23). Glorifying Himself.

I see you're trying to be cunny..

When you say you did something and add "by myself" to it. What does that mean... And if it doesn't mean you actually did the thing personally by yourself please give an example of something you did BY YOURSELF through someone else..

Janosky:
Your claim not true,not valid.
Oga Perfectbeing, please read and study your Bible with understanding...

2 Questions to you:

Hebrews 1:1-2, God created the universe THROUGH His Son, is it not there in your Bible?

* Did the Word/Son create his Father?

Oga Perfectbeing bought a house THROUGH his Lawyer, is that not clear to you?
The house belongs to you but the Lawyer is your Agent working for you and with you.

What is the content of Isaiah 44:1-24 ?


44 Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant, and Israel, who I have chosen: 2 Thus saith Jehovah that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, who will help thee: Fear not, O Jacob my servant; and thou, Jeshurun, whom I have chosen. 3 For I will pour water upon [a]him that is thirsty, and streams upon the dry ground; I will pour my Spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring: 4 and they shall spring up among the grass, as willows by the watercourses. 5 One shall say, I am Jehovah’s; and another shall [b]call himself by the name of Jacob; and another shall [c]subscribe with his hand unto Jehovah, and [d]surname himself by the name of Israel.

6 Thus saith Jehovah, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts: I am the first, and I am the last; and besides me there is no God. 7 [e]And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I established the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and that shall come to pass, let them [f]declare. 8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have I not declared unto thee of old, and showed it? and ye are my witnesses. Is there a God besides me? yea, there is no Rock; I know not any.

9 They that fashion a graven image are all of them [g]vanity; and the things that they delight in shall not profit; and their own witnesses see not, nor know: that they may be put to shame. 10 Who hath fashioned a god, or molten an image that is profitable for nothing? 11 Behold, [h]all his fellows shall be put to shame; and the workmen, they are of men: let them all be gathered together, let them stand up; they shall fear, they shall be put to shame together.

12 The smith [i]maketh an axe, and worketh in the coals, and fashioneth it with hammers, and worketh it with his strong arm: yea, he is hungry, and his strength faileth; he drinketh no water, and is faint. 13 The carpenter stretcheth out a line; he marketh it out with [j]a pencil; he shapeth it with planes, and he marketh it out with the compasses, and shapeth it after the figure of a man, according to the beauty of a man, to dwell in a house. 14 He heweth him down cedars, and taketh the holm-tree and the oak, and strengtheneth for himself one among the trees of the forest: he planteth [k]a fir-tree, and the rain doth nourish it. 15 Then shall it be for a man to burn; and he taketh thereof, and warmeth himself; yea, he kindleth it, and baketh bread: yea, he maketh a god, and worshippeth it; he maketh it a graven image, and falleth down thereto. 16 He burneth [l]part thereof in the fire; with [m]part thereof he eateth flesh; he roasteth roast, and is satisfied; yea, he warmeth himself, and saith, Aha, I am warm, I have seen the fire. 17 And the residue thereof he maketh a god, even his graven image; he falleth down unto it and worshippeth, and prayeth unto it, and saith, Deliver me; for thou art my god.

18 They know not, neither do they consider: for he hath [n]shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand. 19 And none calleth to mind, neither is there knowledge nor understanding to say, I have burned part of it in the fire; yea, also I have baked bread upon the coals thereof; I have roasted flesh and eaten it: and shall I make the residue thereof an abomination? shall I fall down to the stock of a tree? 20 He feedeth on ashes; a deceived heart hath turned him aside; and he cannot deliver his soul, nor say, Is there not a lie in my right hand?

21 Remember these things, O Jacob, and Israel; for thou art my servant: I have formed thee; thou art my servant: O Israel, thou shalt not be forgotten of me. 22 I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee. 23 Sing, O ye heavens, for Jehovah hath done it; shout, ye lower parts of the earth; break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for Jehovah hath redeemed Jacob, and will glorify himself in Israel.

24 Thus saith Jehovah, thy Redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb: I am Jehovah, that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth [o](who is with me?);"

Vs 1- 7, Jehovah says He is the God of Israel, His servant.

Vs 8, Jehovah asks:" Is there a God besides me (in other words,does any true God exists apart from me"? I know not any.

V9-20 Jehovah express disgust against Israel for their practice of idolatry.

V24 Jehovah is saying He is not comparable to Israel's idols. where were the idols, gods of Israel when he created the world?

Read your Bible with understanding,abeg.
Isaiah 44:23" Jehovah is glorifying Himself in Israel"
Vs 24, No comparison between Jah & idols of Israel.

Throughout Isaiah 44, Jehovah ALWAYS use the pronoun "I".
Oga Perfectbeing, The Genesis 1:27 "Jehovah ,He created man in his image.
"He/I" is how many persons?

When I say I built something by myself what does that statement means?

And you quoted Gen 1:27 while cleverly skipping verse 26 (...let Us make man in our own image...)
Explain..

And no the word didn't create the father.
The word and the father are the same

Gulher:
ok I know about livingword from my undergraduate days

Have you listened to any of the messages?

Was it UNIBEN you graduated from?

Ahasco:
A revolution is taking place in the world, and you all can see it. The time of worshiping anything is fast coming to its abrupt end. I beg you all religious people to discern the time even the book of lies(Bible) confusedly talked about it, but it's sad many still don't get it. Don't be afraid to ask your gods questions they prohibit you from asking, and threaten you with death if you do so, even death itself is sweet its only transition and transformation

The grace of God is with your spirit

Janosky:
Mr Perfect being has a Construction Project.
If Perfect being brought his son, Mr JP to work for him, (Hebrews 1:1-2) who takes the credit for the success of the Project?

Will Mr Perfect being say that Mr JP saw that the Project was very successful?
Or Mr Perfectbeing saw that the Project was very successful?

Use your Church mind ooo & God given brain answer am oooo

Least I forget. Your analogy holds no water.
Isaiah, 44:24, "Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, 'I, the LORD, am the maker of all things, stretching out the heavens by Myself, and spreading out the earth all alone.'"

Infact NWT puts it beautifully...

This is what Jehovah has said, your Repurchaser and the Former of you from the belly: 'I, Jehovah, am doing everything, stretching out the heavens by myself, laying out the earth. Who was with me?

I love the last part "who was with Me?"

Here it clearly states that the Lord (Jehovah) made all things by Himself with no one else present. Neither through a representative. so how is it possible for the LORD ( Jehovah) to stretch out the heavens by Himself, all alone and yet Jesus "the first created thing" be the one who did it? They can't both be true even for you Jehovah's Witness.

Maximus69:
Shedding of his blood is another topic entirely!

Regarding the criteria to enter God's kingdom, it requires good works but only Jesus knows the type of good works that can please his father!

hmm.

Make sure you also explain John 8:24
Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."

Janosky:
NO !
John 1:2, "the Word was with God" , two persons.
Recall my first response to you about
The Construction Project Owner and his Son.
John 1:3 says "the World (universe) was made THROUGH the Word.
Hebrews 1:1-2 says the Word is God's Spokesman,His Son. His Father made the universe THROUGH His Son".


The same expression in Mark 13:19 and Rev 3:14
is incontrovertible evidence that Jesus is God's creature, in fact his own Father's creation.

OK lets take this to the beginning.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god," John 1:1, NWT

Instead of the final words, look at the opening words: "In the beginning was the Word." It does not say, "In the beginning the Word came into being" or "In the beginning God created the Word." It says that in the beginning the Word already "was." In the beginning, the Word is already there. The Word does not have a beginning. Rather, the Word is already present in the beginning. Such a phrase implies an uncreated being. If someone were to say "In the beginning was Jehovah," such a phrase would not imply that Jehovah was a created being. It would point to the exact opposite of that. So, too, when such a phrase is applied to the Word.

Notice what verse 2 says immediately afterwards.
"This one was in the beginning with God," (John 1:2)
In the same way that God "was" in the beginning, so too the Word "was" in the beginning. Driving the same point home, the next verse explains:

"All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence," (John 1:3).
Note that all things came into existence through Him. Indeed, not even one thing came into existence except through Him. If The Word were Himself a creation, this would be utter nonsense!
He could not come into existence through Himself. If He came into existence, He would be one thing that came into existence that did not come into existence through the Word. But the verse here is emphatic: not even one thing came into existence apart from Him. When we ask which god the Word is, we must say that He is the eternal, uncreated creator. He is the God who brought all things into being and who Himself had no beginning. He is the "god" of Genesis 1

Maximus69:
Comprehension is the problem here my guy!

God taught Jesus how to be good and God declared that it's only Jesus that can teach you and i the good qualities he requires before we can have everlasting life.

So there's no way anyone can qualify for the qualities God requires if they don't come in contact with Jesus! John 3:16

You still haven't explained the reason for his shedding of blood.

Where sin abound, the grace of God did much more abound.
The grace of God is with your spirit. Peace..

Where sin abound, the grace of God did much more abound.
The grace of God is with your spirit. Peace..

Where sin abound, the grace of God did much more abound.
The grace of God is with your spirit. Peace..

Where sin abound, the grace of God did much more abound.
The grace of God is with your spirit. Peace..

Where sin abound, the grace of God did much more abound.
The grace of God is with your spirit. Peace..

Where sin abound, the grace of God did much more abound.
The grace of God is with your spirit. Peace..

Where sin abound, the grace of God did much more abound.
The grace of God is with your spirit. Peace..

Where sin abound, the grace of God did much more abound.
The grace of God is with your spirit. Peace..

Where sin abound, the grace of God did much more abound.
The grace of God is with your spirit. Peace..

Where sin abound, the grace of God did much more abound.
The grace of God is with your spirit. Peace..

Where sin abound, the grace of God did much more abound.
The grace of God is where sin ith your spirit. Peace..

Gulher:
I've been going to and fro and I want to commit to a church full time. I need you guys to suggest a nice church. Where they preach godly living and love.

No offence but I dont want one of those all about giving to get rich, fund raising and motivational speakers churches please. I also dont want too much consciousness of witches and wizards.

If you attend any church where godly living and love is the main message, kindly drop the name and location please. Thanks.

Where do you stay?

And you listen to the audio messages of my esteemed MOG Pastor Olusegun Onayinka @ www.livingwordmedia.org

Thank me later

Whatever you see or do when awake and have no problem with, you shouldn't have a problem seeing or doing it in the dream too.
Simple!
If you don't have a problem swimming, eating, drinking, flying in real life, why are you suddenly bothered by any of these when you do them in your dreams?
Why should seeing a common snake become a big deal when you see it in the dream whereas you see a snake when you are awake and you don't give any mysterious interpretation to it?
Why should swimming or eating become a big deal in the dream when you eat and swim every day?
Do you think you are going to die whenever you walk past where they sell caskets or whenever you see one in a burial?
Why then do you now suddenly think or believe there is imminent death for you or a loved one when you see the same casket in your dream?
And why can't you interpret seeing a casket or a burial in the dream to mean you're being reminded that you are the one who is to raise the dead?
When you see yourself dead in the dream why can't you see it as a reminder that you are dead with Christ and buried together with him?
Have you not been seeing that all over the scriptures? How come there's suddenly a problem now that you're having a vision of the same scriptures that you've been studying?
A wise and mature believer doesn't go about seeking for interpretation or meaning to his dreams. He gives meaning to his dreams instead. He is both the dreamer and the interpreter of his dreams. And his interpretation must be submissive to knowledge of the written word
You are not Pharaoh or Nebuchadnezzar who goes about seeking for interpretation for their dreams. You are not a heathen man
You are a believer!
No believer in the Bible ever had a dream and went around seeking for interpretation
A believer should be able to subject every dream he has to the knowledge of Christ
If you have a dream that seeks to exalt itself above the knowledge of Christ you are to take it captive and bring it to the obedience of Christ
2Cor 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
Never accept as an interpretation for any dream that which brings fear, dread and anxiety
There are no fixed meanings or interpretations to dreams. Those are things you only find in fables, superstition and traditions of men
Stuff you only find in stupid dream books
The believer has the mind of Christ. He determines what becomes of any dream, trance or vision
People empower dreams that have no power by thinking on them and giving in to fear.
I hope this meets you well
Do let me know
The grace of Jesus is with your spirit

Long but read to the end if you can.

Whatever you see or do when awake and have no problem with, you shouldn't have a problem seeing or doing it in the dream too.
Simple!
If you don't have a problem swimming, eating, drinking, flying in real life, why are you suddenly bothered by any of these when you do them in your dreams?
Why should seeing a common snake become a big deal when you see it in the dream whereas you see a snake when you are awake and you don't give any mysterious interpretation to it?
Why should swimming or eating become a big deal in the dream when you eat and swim every day?
Do you think you are going to die whenever you walk past where they sell caskets or whenever you see one in a burial?
Why then do you now suddenly think or believe there is imminent death for you or a loved one when you see the same casket in your dream?
And why can't you interpret seeing a casket or a burial in the dream to mean you're being reminded that you are the one who is to raise the dead?
When you see yourself dead in the dream why can't you see it as a reminder that you are dead with Christ and buried together with him?
Have you not been seeing that all over the scriptures? How come there's suddenly a problem now that you're having a vision of the same scriptures that you've been studying?
A wise and mature believer doesn't go about seeking for interpretation or meaning to his dreams. He gives meaning to his dreams instead. He is both the dreamer and the interpreter of his dreams. And his interpretation must be submissive to knowledge of the written word
You are not Pharaoh or Nebuchadnezzar who goes about seeking for interpretation for their dreams. You are not a heathen man
You are a believer!
No believer in the Bible ever had a dream and went around seeking for interpretation
A believer should be able to subject every dream he has to the knowledge of Christ
If you have a dream that seeks to exalt itself above the knowledge of Christ you are to take it captive and bring it to the obedience of Christ
2Cor 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
Never accept as an interpretation for any dream that which brings fear, dread and anxiety
There are no fixed meanings or interpretations to dreams. Those are things you only find in fables, superstition and traditions of men
Stuff you only find in stupid dream books
The believer has the mind of Christ. He determines what becomes of any dream, trance or vision
People empower dreams that have no power by thinking on them and giving in to fear.
I hope this meets you well
Do let me know
The grace of Jesus is with your spirit

Janosky:
The Almighty God Jehovah ,(the Owner of the Construction Project) rested.
HE created Jesus Christ, Man and angels in his own image.

But that is already contradicting John 1:2 which says "all things were made by him (the word) and without him was not anything made that was made.
This verse clearly shows that the Word was the God of Genesis 1. It was the Word that said "let there be light" It was the word the created man... angels and the whole universe It was the word that rested..

Maximus69:
That is exactly the meaning of that verse!

"Whoever does good will not perish but have everlasting life"

But the problem with Churchgoers is lack of understanding.

It's only good works that can guarantee you God's kingdom because God's will is for good people to fill the earth.

Note Jesus' response when someone called him "good teacher" {Luke 18:19} this means that Jesus became good because he learnt how to be truly good from the one and only good person (God) {John 8:28} so for anyone to meet the criteria of being good you too must learn how to be good (in accordance with God's own righteousness) from the one and only examplar that God presented to mankind (Jesus). That's the import of John 3:16

All other prophets of God who lived before Jesus were declared righteous because they lived their lives in harmony with the good they learnt from God, but they're not yet qualified for everlasting life they must be resurrected, taught all what Jesus taught us, accept those teachings, practice what they learnt before they can be granted the privilege to live forever.

That's why the Bible book of Revelations 20:11-15 says there will be a resurrection of the righteous (those who have worshiped God before they died both Christians and in ancient times) and the unrighteous (those who knew nothing about God's standards but live by their own conscience), they will be judged.

The judging means Christians will be resurrected first and they will prepare the earth before the others are resurrected, so when others are resurrected the Christians will start teaching them how to become good like the model God gave mankind (Jesus) {Malachi 3:16} those who accepted to live a Christlike life will be granted everlasting life, but those who refuses (thinking their own righteousness is enough) will be destroyed for good!
Note what verse 16 of Malachi 3 says "God's angels will start penning down the names of those who avail themselves for the training on how to meet up with God's requirements" so those who did not avail themselves, their names will be missing in the book of life! Revelations 20:15

Thanks!

Islam and a host of other religion urges their faithful to do good. So what is the difference between all those religion and Christianity. What then is the essence of the birth, death and resurrection of Jesus if the criteria for everlasting life was good will.
And also Matthew 26:28 talks about the remission of sin through the shedding of the blood of Christ.

And I don't know what you're trying to imply.. that John 3:16 means ".. whosoever does good shall not perish but have everlasting life"

Are you trying to undermine the torture, flogging, thrist, hunger and cruxifixion of Christ?

One day Jesus went to his father and said "father I have found myself a wife" .
And the father said, tell us what she looks like.
And Jesus said she is a prostitute, a liar, a thief, whoremonger, witch, back bitter, deceiver, unfaithful, a cheat, an abuser, selfish, murderer, hater, sick, poor, impoverished,
and her father is the devil and everything about her is wrong but I love her.
And God said
TAKE HER SON LET'S HAVE A FEAST!

Eph 2:1-6. (NLT)
1. Once you were dead because of your disobedience and your many sins.
2 You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil—the commander of the powers in the unseen world. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God.
3: All of us used to live that way, following the passionate desires and inclinations of our sinful nature. By our very nature we were subject to God’s anger, just like everyone else.
4: But God is so rich in mercy, and he loved us so much,
5: that even though we were dead because of our sins, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead. (It is only by God’s grace that you have been saved!)
6. For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus.

A certain man placed a fountain by the wayside, and he hung up a cup near to it by a little chain.
He was told some time after that a great art-critic had found much fault with its design. "But," said he, "do many thirsty persons drink at it?"
Then they told him that thousands of poor people, men, women, and children, slaked their thirst at this fountain;
and he smiled and said, that he was little troubled by the critic's observation, only he hoped that on some sultry summer's day the critic himself might fill the cup, and he refreshed, and praise the name of the Lord.
Here is my fountain, and here is my cup. Find fault if you wish, but do drink of the water of life
I only care for this. I would rather bless the soul of the poorest street cleaner or rag-gatherer than please a Prince and fail to convert him to God
- Spurgeon (All of grace)