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PoliticsRe: Edo State Is Changing(pics). Kodus To Comrade Adams by PhysicsQED(m): 10:37am On Oct 02, 2011
"When the Comrade Governor and his entourage went to flag off the construction of the 5.5km Iyamho-Iyora Road in Etsako West, the 10 km Ivbioghe- Igiode-Uzanu Road in Etsako East, the 22 km Igarra –Ososo Road transversing eight communities in Akoko Edo and Irrua-Ugbegun Road in Esan North East, they met despondent communities who for no fault of theirs were completely alienated from civilization as they lacked basic requirements of life which should have been provided by the government.

The people came out in their numbers to welcome the governor with optimism that their sufferings would soon be over and like the governor assured them, though government will not be able to provide all that they need at once, but concerted efforts would be made to meet them.

To start with, the administration has commenced the rehabilitation and construction of the roads that will enable the people who are mostly farmers to get their farm products from the hinterland to the cities.

It has since been discovered that the past governments deliberately abandoned such roads so that there will be no access to the communities by electoral officials during elections and this will afford politicians and their godfathers to continue to rig elections at their rigging centres.

But, Oshiomhole, in his campaign to ensure that every man’s vote count in subsequent election, has made it one of his cardinal agenda to open up the rural communities to enable the people in such remote communities who have never seen a ballot paper until now to make them exercise their franchise. In his words, the road network is also to defeat rigging of elections

The governor had recalled that, while growing up at Iyamho, they used to walk down to the next village of Iyora and then life seems impossible considering the stress and difficulty they went through to move things from one village to another.

To him, flagging off the construction of the road was a unique day in his life and for both communities because with the construction of the Iyamho-Iyora Road, apart from the commercial activities of the movement of goods that would become easier, the relationship between them would be strengthened.


To him, the reason the village people are poor is because they are not integrated with the cities and they lack educational institutions.

He, therefore, promised in all the places visited that secondary and primary school in the area would be rebuilt this year, saying that any government that could not provide education for the young ones is doomed, restating the commitment of the administration to reposition the entire state.

The mood at Uzanu In Etsako East Local Government Area was thrilling when the governor went there to redeem the promise he made during the launching of his electioneering campaign there and they were particularly happy that the governor had come in so short a time.

According to them, they were not in any way surprise because of his pedigree as a successful trade unionist and labour leader. The people of Ivioghe, Igiode and Uzanu communities said they were exceedingly grateful to the Comrade Governor for flagging off the construction of their road which successive administrations had failed to do it.

They maintained that they have had so many people in government and none of them deemed it necessary to come to them, but despite the difficult terrain, only Comrade Oshiomhole had taken this bold step.

They thanked the administration for the construction of bore hole at Igiode, renovation of Igiode Secondary School, the on-going construction of Ayogwiri-Apana-Imiegba-Okpekpe Road, comprehensive rehabilitation and fencing of the General Hospital, Agenebode, awards of MDGs projects like construction of boreholes in Iviukhua, Iviukwe, Afokpella, Awuyemi and Imiakebu, as well as the proposed establishment of fertiliser company at Ivhiegbepui and for attracting a river port to Agenebode.

In Esan Central, where Oshiomhole flagged off the Eguare-Usugbenu, Irrua-Eguare-Ebudin Ugbegun- Izogen road, the community disclosed how a section of the road was last tarred in 1963, some 47 years ago.

Though various administrations promised the people severally in the past that the road would be constructed but they all failed.

It was therefore not unexpected that some skeptics had entertained some doubts for obvious reasons when Oshiomhole declared on March 3, 2010 that he would personally flag off the construction of the road. But those who knew the Comrade Governor well were optimistic that he would keep faith with his promises.

The Irrua-Ugbegun communities bubbling with excitement that the road construction was being flagged off in an address presented by former Commissioner of Finance, Clement Ehebha, stated that the road, which cuts across several communities in two local government areas, would link Ebudin-Ugbegun, the farthest point to the local headquarters at Irrua.


“When completed, our people in Eguare-Idimobo(Ebudin) and Ugbegun will not need to transverse three local government areas to reach their local government headquarters at Irrua. We are just too excited that this administration is making history in the whole of Edo State not just because of infrastructural developments but moreso because of the audacity in type, style, size, number and spread of these projects,” they added.

It was the same story of jubilation in Akoko Edo Local Government Area where the governor flagged off the 22 kilometer Igarra-Ososo Road which has been in a state of total disrepair for over 20 years.

The Otaru of Igarra, Oba E.A Saiki II, recalled that the road, popularly called, Akoko Edo Ring Road which links about eight communities or towns is one of the most important roads in the local government area and yet it has been the most neglected road by the previous administrations in the state.

“It is our pleasure that within these few months that your administration came on board, you have so readily decided to flag off the rehabilitation of this all important road to the admiration of the people of Akoko Edo local government area. You have proved that really you are the Peoples Action Governor whose developmental stride in Edo State is unequalled”, the traditional ruler said."



http://www.osundefender.org/?p=9708
PoliticsRe: Edo State Is Changing(pics). Kodus To Comrade Adams by PhysicsQED(m): 10:34am On Oct 02, 2011
ehiabj:
What about the kidnappings in Edo-state, whats the Gov doing about thathuh
http://www.edostate.gov.ng/news/edo-proposes-death-penalty-kidnappers

"Kidnappers may face death penalty in Edo State if the amendment to the state law on kidnapping being proposed by the state government sails through.

Comrade Adams Oshiomhole disclosed this today when he granted audience to the Christian Association of Nigeria, CAN and Edo North Traditional rulers at the Government House, Benin City, today.

According to the Governor, “I am proposing an amendment to the House of Assembly to impose the death penalty on those convicted for kidnapping.”

The Governor said the offence of kidnapping is as serious as that of armed robbery, adding that the instruments of armed robbery are present in every act of kidnapping.

“They use arms to subdue their victims. When you rob, the penalty is death and when you kidnap the penalty should also be death,” he added.

The Governor remarked that security is vital to the growth and development of the society, stressing, that insecurity leads to capital flight and unemployment.

Comrade Oshiomhole noted further that though he is the governor of the State the security agencies are under the Federal Government.

“The State Security Service, Nigerian Police Force and the Immigration are all agencies of the Federal Government. That is part of the reason why they take as much as 52 percent of the revenue allocation of the Federation. It is sad that the Federal Government does not equip the police force to a level that they have the wherewithal to monitor crime. To deal with criminality now is not just a matter of the commitment of the officers and men, intelligence gathering is crucial”. He said.

The Governor remarked that in spite of these constraints Edo State Government has devoted a part of its meager resources to support the security agencies.

He assured that Government would not relent in its support to the security agencies in the state."
PoliticsRe: Edo State Is Changing(pics). Kodus To Comrade Adams by PhysicsQED(m): 10:30am On Oct 02, 2011
http://www.edostate.gov.ng/news/edo-begins-construction-model-colleges


^^^^^

Are all three of those planned schools being built in Benin city? Or just one?
PoliticsRe: Edo State Is Changing(pics). Kodus To Comrade Adams by PhysicsQED(m): 10:26am On Oct 02, 2011
PoliticsRe: Edo State Is Changing(pics). Kodus To Comrade Adams by PhysicsQED(m): 10:13am On Oct 02, 2011
CultureRe: The Art And Architecture Of Yorubaland! by PhysicsQED(m): 10:08am On Oct 02, 2011
tpia@:
this was dated 12th century

https://cdn0.wn.com/vp/i/d0/3e9ee8416ba9b3.jpg
Only some of the art of Ife has actually been dated. The same applies for Benin. Instead dates for the other undated pieces are assigned based on traditional history, and the dates for some of the pieces (like terracotta, for example) that have been dated. I'll have to look around a bit on this, but I do not think that this was one of the pieces that was dated. I think it was assigned a date based on the date of the kingdom's most prominent period.
PoliticsRe: Edo State Is Changing(pics). Kodus To Comrade Adams by PhysicsQED(m): 9:57am On Oct 02, 2011
Tippy Top:
Adams is the worst governor in Nigeria. Where's prof Osumbor Osunbor?
lol, professor who? Tony Anenih's former protege?

University fees being increased and made closer to what they should be should not result in such an irrationally negative reaction.
CultureRe: Best Dancers! (friendly Rivalry) by PhysicsQED(m): 7:25am On Oct 02, 2011
@ k.o.n.y., an enormous chunk of MJ's so called "distinct style" was clearly just a slightly exaggerated version of one of Bob Fosse's routines:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8mJsgPj1iU


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8mJsgPj1iU

http://unitedstage.com/2010/09/27/michael-jackson-steals-from-bob-fosse/


This video here is the real "smoking gun" though, and the truth simply cannot be dismissed:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvZGl1NqBRc

And one can see from the comments that MJ was definitely familiar with Fosse's work.

When you put together the fact that 1) MJ definitely didn't invent the moonwalk, but got it from some black muscial group from the 70s, and 2) got almost the entirety of the rest of his style from Bob Fosse, it's ridiculous to try and portray him as some sort of huge innovative dancer. A popularizer? Yes. But was the majority of his style invented by him? No. Is his signature dress style even his? No. It's Bob Fosse's look in the "Snake in the Grass" routine.


"I youtubed Bob Fosse and had to quit/cause I found out, MJ bit that man whole shi[i]t[/i]!" - Ras Kass, "Since U Been Gone"

^^^

It's just obvious, and even other black people (and Ras Kass is very pro-black, an MJ fan, and even made a song in MJ's honor) can admit it. Let's just be honest here and move on. Anyway, breakdancing moves from Brazilians, Angolans, and African Americans are way cooler than any moves that MJ used.

I like Michael Jackson's music, but to be completely honest, a lot of that MJ, Usher, Justin Timberlake, Ne-Yo style choreography that singers can't seem to do without always looked effeminate to me, so it's not surprising that it was sourced from a musical theater guy (Fosse). I hope that stuff eventually dies out. . .
CultureRe: The Art And Architecture Of Yorubaland! by PhysicsQED(m): 10:06pm On Oct 01, 2011
alj_harem:
http://www.eamb.org/tag/historical-figures/
Oh, I see. So it was the website that you got the pictures from that was wrong.

That's definitely a depiction of a Kongo monarch: http://old.antislavery.org/breakingthesilence/slave_routes/slave_routes_portugal.shtml



Anyway, do continue posting more interesting pictures. Many of these are completely new to me.
CultureRe: The Art And Architecture Of Yorubaland! by PhysicsQED(m): 9:56pm On Oct 01, 2011
alj_harem:
https://www.eamb.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/kingkongo.jpg

Subjects prostate themselves before an African oba as the Portuguese make their first contact – Late fifteenth century (Ketu present day benin)
That isn't a drawing of Ketu's ruler. I'm pretty sure that's something that attempts to depict a ruler of the Kongo.

Are you deliberately posting unrelated images and relabeling them as Yoruba? grin grin
CultureRe: The Art And Architecture Of Yorubaland! by PhysicsQED(m): 9:50pm On Oct 01, 2011
alj_harem:
Yes might be so but your link stated that The term

"Lower Niger Bronze Industry" has been used by art historians to classify ancient copper-alloy sculpture discovered in the area of the Niger Valley that could not be traced directly to the famous metalworking centers of Benin and Ife. Since this label actually refers to a multitude of provincial casting sites, each with varying styles and techniques, one scholar has suggested that "Lower Niger Bronze Industries" would be a more apt description. Less is known of Lower Niger Bronze Industry works than those of Benin and Ife, but their existence suggests that copper-alloy casting was once widespread in what is now southern Nigeria."

I do not think it is itsekiri, because ife and benin culture and heritage were interwoven back then and might be form either one of the two groups.

Some say it was benin others say it was yoruba

but itsekiri, no because itsekiri did not deal with iron or bronze but with woods. undecided

anyway; one of the two
No, the link was just saying that less is known about the lower Niger Bronze industry than is known about art from Benin or Ife. It wasn't saying that warrior figure or the art was necessarily of Benin or Ife origin.

And the two slits above his eye clearly indicate an Edo association on the part of the artist making the sculpture, as does the leopard teeth necklace, but the eyes are like those in several Yoruba sculptures.
CultureRe: Benin Art And Architecture by PhysicsQED(m): 9:45pm On Oct 01, 2011
Hmm. Sorry about that. Well what I'll do is capture snapshots of each of the pages I gave links to instead, then upload them and post them, because it is quite a lot to type. I should post that in a few days (I'm somewhat busy right now, otherwise I would do it sooner).
CultureRe: The Art And Architecture Of Yorubaland! by PhysicsQED(m): 9:36pm On Oct 01, 2011
lakal:
Thank you PhysicsQED for the additional pictures of the Akaba Idena!
No problem. I was glad to find them.
CultureRe: The Art And Architecture Of Yorubaland! by PhysicsQED(m): 9:34pm On Oct 01, 2011
@ alj harem,

You posted some interesting pictures, but some of the stuff you posted is not Yoruba art though.

The Ododowa mask you posted is from Benin. The messenger with the cross is also Benin artwork.

The warrior figure with the shield and the bell around his neck with the leopard teeth collar is from the Lower Niger Bronze group (http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/works-of-art/1977.173), which is not necessarily Yoruba. The outfit he's wearing with the leopard teeth suggest that he's from a group more directly related to Edo. Also the two marks above his nose (the so-called "can of eye" marks) that indicate seriousness or determination, indicate that the caster was familiar with the aesthetic worldview of the Edo artists or had a similar artistic perception. The eyes on the figure are in a Yoruba style however, so given the combination of Edo and Yoruba aspects to the figure, maybe it's an Itsekiri warrior by an Itsekiri artist.

The bell with the horse face design is also from that lower Niger bronze industry, which is more likely to be Itsekiri, Isoko, etc. than Yoruba.
CultureRe: Benin Art And Architecture by PhysicsQED(m): 6:11pm On Oct 01, 2011
@ nolongTing, were you able to read the pages of Law's book?
PoliticsRe: Ijaws Attack Binis Over Ownership Of Gelegele Land In Edo State by PhysicsQED(m): 6:08pm On Oct 01, 2011
Chyz*:
Just for out that "poto-poto" is also on the link I posted and it is under Yoruba and it means mud/muddy. Its the same thing in Igbo. Both yoruba and Igbo are from the same language group so this strengthens the are argument more,even though its not really an argument,lol, and totally pulls the chair from under you damn ijaw claim of the word. Ijaw is not related to any southern nigeria language. Now how did that happen? huh  cheesy

http://abitabout.com/List+of+African+words+in+Jamaican+Patois


https://www.worldofmaps.net/typo3temp/pics/8c182129fc.png
This is unrelated to your point, but it should be noted that this German map does not look accurate with regard to the Edo and Delta state areas.
CultureRe: Best Dancers! (friendly Rivalry) by PhysicsQED(m): 5:52pm On Oct 01, 2011
Wow. That one legged guy was amazing! The little kids were pretty good too.

And that girl's dancing was raunchy. grin grin
CultureRe: Benin Art And Architecture by PhysicsQED(m): 5:42pm On Oct 01, 2011
nolongTing:
Great response and thanks for the links. I agree with your analysis; you immediately recognised the motive behind my question. However, due to the fact that there are many contradictory accounts on this issue, I was wondering whether you had a different point of view. I must say that the Benin Empire seems to be the most documented empire in Nigeria – there is so much information (I stand to be corrected on that point).
It's possible that there may be more written information about Benin than any other empire in Nigeria. However, there are first hand written accounts from people from the Sokoto Caliphate and some visitors, and there are many later writings and studies about the Sokoto Caliphate in English and other languages, so it may be the case that there is as much documentation on the Sokoto Caliphate as Benin. I haven't seen one site or book with a full bibliography of information about the Caliphate, but I know that there is a lot written about it.
CultureRe: Benin Art And Architecture by PhysicsQED(m): 5:33pm On Oct 01, 2011
@ nolongTing, I found an online link to Robin Law's book from an e-book collection hosted by the University of Michigan (http://www.humanitiesebook.org/intro.html):

This is the whole book:

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=acls;idno=heb02618.0001.001


I don't know if it's all-access, or if I can only access it because I'm at a university right now, but here are the relevant parts about Oyo and Benin:


http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/pageviewer-idx?c=acls&cc=acls&idno=heb02618.0001.001&node=heb02618.0001.001%3A7.4&seq=138&size=100&view=image

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/pageviewer-idx?c=acls;cc=acls;idno=heb02618.0001.001;node=heb02618.0001.001%3A7.4;seq=139;size=100;view=image;page=root

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/pageviewer-idx?c=acls;cc=acls;idno=heb02618.0001.001;node=heb02618.0001.001%3A7.4;seq=140;size=100;view=image;page=root

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/pageviewer-idx?c=acls;cc=acls;idno=heb02618.0001.001;node=heb02618.0001.001%3A7.4;seq=141;size=100;view=image;page=root

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/pageviewer-idx?c=acls;cc=acls;idno=heb02618.0001.001;node=heb02618.0001.001%3A7.4;seq=143;size=100;view=image;page=root

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/pageviewer-idx?c=acls;cc=acls;idno=heb02618.0001.001;node=heb02618.0001.001%3A7.4;seq=144;size=100;view=image;page=root

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/pageviewer-idx?c=acls;cc=acls;idno=heb02618.0001.001;node=heb02618.0001.001%3A7.4;seq=145;size=100;view=image;page=root

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/pageviewer-idx?c=acls;cc=acls;idno=heb02618.0001.001;node=heb02618.0001.001%3A7.4;seq=146;size=100;view=image;page=root

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/pageviewer-idx?c=acls;cc=acls;idno=heb02618.0001.001;node=heb02618.0001.001%3A7.4;seq=147;size=100;view=image;page=root

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/pageviewer-idx?c=acls;cc=acls;idno=heb02618.0001.001;node=heb02618.0001.001%3A7.4;seq=148;size=100;view=image;page=root

If you can access the links and read them without being at a university or library, then I won't bother typing up those parts in the book. If not, I'll type it up a week or so from now when I check out the book again.
CultureRe: Best Dancers! (friendly Rivalry) by PhysicsQED(m): 5:05pm On Oct 01, 2011
If we're talking about female dancers, I definitely have to give it to the Caribbean as far as moves.



As for dances mostly done by males, I would have to give credit in that area to African Americans, not for Michael Jackson, but for breakdancing.

Michael Jackson got a lot of his style from Bob Fosse and James Brown so I don't consider him all that relevant to this discussion, since he was much less original than a lot of other dancers.

However, breakdancers do some really amazing, mind blowing stuff sometimes, and anyone can see this from checking out any really good breakdancing competition.

Blacks in Brazil of Angolan origin also developed styles of dancing that are similar to breakdancing, but the really creative and technically impressive breakdancing moves we see are unique to hip hop inspired breakdancing and African Americans should get credit for that creativity.
CultureRe: Question For The Descendants Of The Benin Empire by PhysicsQED(m): 4:44pm On Oct 01, 2011
I was just speaking from my perspective about why mentioning conquest of some sort is unavoidable when talking about those ancient empires, regardless of whether one wants to be a chauvinist or not.

But, yeah, tribalism has gotten Nigeria nowhere, and I do understand your disdain for using ancient history for present day tribalism and chauvinistic claims.
CultureRe: Benin Art And Architecture by PhysicsQED(m): 4:31pm On Oct 01, 2011
@ nolongTing

Occasional diplomatic contact was maintained between Oyo and Benin, from what I've read in Robin Law's book on Oyo (from 1600-1836). He cites a source from the late 1700s by some French explorer and a different source which mentions emissaries from Oyo that a visitor to Benin met who were described as being in Benin on "political business". I might type up and post some of Law's analysis in another thread if and when I check out his book again.

In the meantime, here are two quotes. They might seem slightly contradictory, but they are from a few years apart, and they are interesting:

"In the evening we had a visit from the king, to thank me for the
presents I had given him, and again to assure me of being welcome;
said that he wanted nothing, unless it was something that would
speedily cause the submission of the rebels. He said that he had
sent to his friend the king of Benin for troops to assist him in the
war. He added that the customary fetes or amusements would
begin in about two months, and he would be very glad if I would
stay and see them ; that he dressed now as a common man, but
after that, I should see him robed as a king. I told him I must go
on early, to get to Bornou before the rains." - Hugh Clapperton, 1826, published in Journal of a second expedition into the interior of Africa, from the bight of Benin to Soccatoo (1829)

Here is a link to read more:

books.google.com/books?id=4LpklJzoY2MC&pg=PA41


That's from 1826.

Now a slightly later (1832) date says diplomatic contact was not maintained, so maybe this was a different Alaafin.

"It has expressly and repeatedly told us, that the monarch of this empire is brother to the king of Benin; but, notwithstanding this near relationship of the two sovereigns, not the slightest intercourse or communication is maintained between Yarriba and that power; so that at least the inhabitants of this place have informed us; and the reason they ascribe for it is, that the distance between the countries is too great. Friends and acquaintances are oftentimes called brothers in Yarriba; and to make a discinction in the above instance, they assert that Mansolah and the king of Benin 'were of one father and one mother'. We interrogated Ebo on the subject, but he soon silenced our remarks by observing that we were too inquisitive, or, to use his own words, 'that we talked too much.' " - Journal of an Expedition to Explore the Course and Termination of the Niger, (1832) by Richard and John Lander

A link:

books.google.com/books?id=R9oTAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA176


[Katunga was what they called Oyo's capital (Old Oyo) and of course Yourriba and Yarriba is what they called Oyo.]



The part about the two kings being brothers is a clear reference to descent from Oduduwa.

Overall, I think it would be accurate to say that the two kingdoms were well aware of each other and the existence of a historical connection between the monarchs.


[A little caveat for anyone else who might be reading the above two book links I posted:  The two sources above are from visitors to Oyo when it was in decline, after it's glory period in earlier centuries, and if one continues to read, one sees that some of their descriptions are understandably negative, not unlike the negative descriptions of Benin in the period after its civil wars started. Their descriptions of Oyo during the period of its decline should not be taken as reflective of what the Oyo empire was like during the greater part of existence. For a more balanced picture of Oyo, people should look to Robin Law's very detailed book on Oyo: The Ọyọ Empire, c.1600-c.1836: a West African imperialism in the era of the Atlantic slave trade]
CultureRe: Benin Art And Architecture by PhysicsQED(m): 3:19pm On Oct 01, 2011
There is a book on some of the methods used to create the brasses that I checked out at a library 2 years ago:

Philip J. C. Dark - An introduction to Benin art and technology, Oxford 1973

It has a lot of images at the end of the book but unfortunately most of them are in black and white. However, the actual main substance of the book - the discussion of the techniques used in casting - is excellent and very informative.

Besides that book, I think there are also different articles that have been published on the techniques used. They would be listed at this site:

http://www.cgore.dircon.co.uk/

http://www.cgore.dircon.co.uk/a1a.htm


^^^^

Anything which even so much as mentions Benin would be at this site. I'm sure there is some additional information in some articles there about how the art was made.

I actually haven't posted that much of the Benin art at all. With a few exceptions, I've posted mainly out of convenience so far, posting some interesting images that are easily available online or in a pdf. There are many many other images from actual books and pdf files of books that I have yet to post. I might start up this thread again in a few days with images scanned and uploaded from books or images taken from pdf versions of books, but because I would have to upload each one, I might just have to limit myself to the ones that seem outstanding or really unique.
PoliticsRe: Edo State Is Changing(pics). Kodus To Comrade Adams by PhysicsQED(m): 1:42pm On Oct 01, 2011
The pictures don't really match the tone of the thread.

That said, Oshiomhole is still definitely making a real effort.


Much of the criticism of him was just about university fees - which is basically just people having trouble adjusting to having to pay for the actual worth of their education, and not any sort of screw up on the governor's part. Education should be subsidized, but only to a certain (financially responsible) extent.
CultureRe: Benin Art And Architecture by PhysicsQED(m): 1:00pm On Oct 01, 2011
Hey, Booshman, I'll reply to the question you posed to me about armor in a little while (today or tomorrow). I'm looking for certain pictures.

That book you bought looks very interesting. There are a lot of books by Edo and non-Edo people about Benin that I have yet to read, and I'll make sure to check out that book someday.
CultureRe: Question For The Descendants Of The Benin Empire by PhysicsQED(m): 12:54pm On Oct 01, 2011
There's nothing circular about it at all. Some of it is clearly sarcasm.

The truth is some people write without thinking. If there is nothing impressive about past military expansion, then don't let me see anybody bringing up Oyo empire again. I am proud of several aspects of the Oyo empire, as an African, but I take some exception to hypocrites insinuating that there is necessarily some sort of huge problem or possibly "tribalistic" motivation in saying Benin conquered this or that place, meanwhile people will do the exact same thing (claims about certain conquests, a few of which don't stand up to scrutiny) for Oyo that somehow draws criticism when it's done with Benin.

Also, anybody who is interested should read Robin Law's book The Oyo Empire, c.1600-c.1836: a West African imperialism in the era of the Atlantic slave trade to see how strongly some of the claims about Oyo's conquests over some fellow Yoruba groups and even a few non-Yoruba groups are contested or dismissed outright by those groups not only back then, but up to this day. Both empires had legitimate and actual imperial expansion, but both also have a few claims about the extent of their conquest that are merely "inventions of history" but for some reason there is mostly only criticism of some of the doubtful Benin claims.
CultureRe: Best Dancers! (friendly Rivalry) by PhysicsQED(m): 6:42am On Oct 01, 2011
lol, what happened to friendly rivalry? Things got ugly real quick.
CultureRe: The Art And Architecture Of Yorubaland! by PhysicsQED(m): 6:34am On Oct 01, 2011
The roof has a really cool overall shape.
CultureRe: The Art And Architecture Of Yorubaland! by PhysicsQED(m): 6:33am On Oct 01, 2011
Booshman:
Do you have larger pictures of the Yoruba Military Architecture? Mainly the second picture? I'd love to see the details.
I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I looked around and I did find another picture of the building lakal originally posted:

https://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/25105_102638349779113_100000988458640_23485_7218079_n.jpg

^^^
This is from a facebook page somebody put up:

http://fr-fr.facebook.com/people/Akaba-Idena-Ketou/100000988458640




https://www.tourismeabomeyetregion.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/excursion_abomey_ketou.jpg

This third image is a different building, I think. But same style:

https://www.tourismeabomeyetregion.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/ketou_maison_historique_architecture.jpg

These last two are from a tourist website. The article is in French, but if you click on the American flag in the upper left corner of the screen, you can get an automated translation from French to English, which, although incomprehensible in a few parts, is mostly tolerable throughout:

http://www.tourismeabomeyetregion.com/index.php/sites-abomey-et-dans-la-rgion/sites-dans-la-rgion/ketou/
CultureRe: Question For The Descendants Of The Benin Empire by PhysicsQED(m):
amor4ce :
Are you saying and perhaps boasting that Benin is the epicenter of efforts to wipe out all elephants from souther Nigeria, if it hasn't done so already?
I based what I said on what I had read about

a) the Oba's elephant hunters
b) the ivory carvers guild (igbesamwan)

and

c) the plethora of ivories I had seen in a distinct Benin style


As for this stuff about wiping out elephants, I don't understand what you're getting at.

If you admire an animal, use it as a symbol, use it for art, etc., why would you be deliberately trying to wipe it out? There's nothing particularly horrible about people's ancestors hunting animals in ancient times for useful materials since humans killed and still kill living things for what they want even to this day.

Today there are some places in Eurasia that lions don't occupy because they hunted and eliminated them in ancient times. Are they complaining, wailing and gnashing their teeth because lions no longer roam the countryside freely? Of course not. Conflict between man and animal for human gain was the natural order back then. I'm skeptical of the claim that Benin was engaged in an attempt at elephanticide.


Hey,what about this: Can someone describe the cultural diffusion of other parts of Southern Nigeria to the Benin Empire?
1. There was cultural diffusion of other parts of southern Nigeria into Benin from other groups - for example, Agho Obaseki was of Anioma ancestry, but sometimes some of the claims about that cultural diffusion some people present (especially on the internet) are not accurate. For example, I saw where someone on the internet claimed a Benin title, Esogban, was derived from some other part of southern Nigeria. Contrary to what one might read on the internet, the title derives from the Edo 'Esogbane' (see p. 94 of the book Benin: Kings and Rituals: Court Arts from Nigeria), meaning 'it would soon come to an end'.

2. One can describe the cultural diffusion of other parts of Southern Nigeria to the Benin empire, but I wouldn't be surprised if after some of these claims the actual Edo are just bystanders while "Ijaws launch coastal invasions of Lagos under Benin empire", "Yorubas teach them all they know about sculpting" "Benin cloth comes from Ijebu, and no important high quality Benin cloth is exported is from Benin itself" (some "professional" historian actually implied this, despite a huge amount of glaring evidence to the contrary from both archaeology, written documents and tradition), "Benin was increasingly reliant on Owo artists for its ivory ornaments"  (Henry Drewal and some of his co-authors suggested this, vastly exaggerating the extent of the use of Owo ivories in Benin) etc. Just claims and when you look at the actual evidence, it's scant if not non-existent.

One can certainly talk about the diffusion into Benin, but we should support it with good reasoning and facts.

One more thing; is it that some people in Nigeria feel relevant only if they say that their tribe conquered another, leading perhaps to the invention of history?
Where was it written that the Benin "tribe" conquered another entire "tribe"? The one thing that could be construed in such a way is that the Benin kingdom invaded and defeated the Igala kingdom centered at Idah after the Igala kingdom attempted to conquer the Benin kingdom. After that event, that rival kingdom allegedly was under Benin for a while.

Some of the Benin art may support the veracity of the Benin claim to victory in this battle of peers.

Also, running with your line of thought, I guess Oyo's history is all invented too. Sokoto as well. etc. since they claim more explicitly to have subjugated specific groups. I always got the impression that the might of Oyo's cavalry against those it fought or conquered were one of its sources of fame and something some people repeatedly bragged about. But I guess there were no empires anywhere. Nobody conquered anything. Now everybody can smile and dance and hold hands like one big happy family.  cheesy  cheesy

And to be completely honest, I always thought there was more "invention of history" against the idea that Benin invaded anywhere than I thought there was invention of history about Benin conquering this or that place. Yes the people claiming Benin conquered this or that place do very frequently go overboard with some excessive claims, but I think they have been thoroughly outclassed in their chosen profession by those who have explained to us at length that Benin didn't conquer anywhere around it all.

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