₦airaland Forum

The bottle upside down proving it's unopened. All the black you're are seeing are inside!

The bottle upright

Hello all, was just about giving my young son a bottle of Fanta (from the stock bought during Dec. 2014) when I noticed the unopened bottle had Black sediments and that there were black stains on the inside of the bottle.
How can NBC be putting people at risk like this? I still have the unopened bottle.
I strongly believe I deserve some compensation. Any advice? Pics to follow

Having exceeded 500miles since installing the downstream O2 sensor and no CEL, I now conclude that the broken sensor was responsible for both the P0141 and P0420 that I had.

Lesson
The P0141 first showed up before the P0420 in my case. Therefore I would advice that while you work through the check list to eliminate the cause of your P0420, if you have a P0141, work on that first before going for an expensive CAT change or CAT delete.

I've successfully used brake fluid. I think it performed better than petrol

nervorum:
Not exactly sir.

Just relying on the mechs assessment.

Why did you ask? If i visually locate the leak point, can smthn be done? Also Remember its been worked on before without sucx.

You should find where it is leaking from as this would show what is responsible. I have had leaks before and fixed them by locating the leak and doing the needful. Note that you can have a leak from the junctions between the metal return lines and the rubber hose...an example. you may just need to tighten a clamp. Also check for cracks on the high pressure line (the fat pipe leaving the PS pump, trace it to where it joins a metal pipe).

To solve the leaks I've had over the years I have had to:
1. Replace inlet o-ring
2. Replace seals inside the pump (here, the leak was from the pump itself)
3. Tighten a clamp between the metal return line and rubber hose (you may need to remove the right front wheel; one of the junctions can be seen from there)
4. Replace the high pressure line.
Note that these were done at different times!

NB: Changing the pump without knowing where the leak is coming from is not wise. I seriously doubt the capacity off your mechanic as any sensible person trying to tackle a leak will first find the source of the leak.

adanny01:
I recently clocked 123,000 miles which is the 5000 miles service due distance. I seriously want to do that task. 2 days ago i was reading about it and realized i need to purchase and install a new valve cover gasket after the adjustment. It will now depend on when i can get all that and the valve gap gauge considering that its far into January and have to throw a 1 yr birthday to my son.

Congrats to you and son!
I know mine is overdue, started having some chatter with the hood open. Should be picking up the valve cover gasket over the weekend. My parts guy told me he has an original one for 4k don't think its OEM though. I haven't seen enough videos do hit this DIY. Still perusing materials cause its surely going to be a DIY, as I'm guessing my mechanic would ask me why I want to do it.

double post

adanny01:
I know it is expensive as an average Nigerian to properly service a car according to owners manual with oem parts. We can still attempt to do it but in a Nigerian way avoiding some major cost.

I serviced my 2003 Honda accord I4 yesterday with very good results. Items required;

1 5litre gallon of milemaster 5W20 engine oil N6,000
Oil filter N1,000
Set of 4 unused Tokumbo NGK 6994 IZFR6K-11 Laser Iridium Spark Plugs N1,000
1 can of Carb cleaner

The list should have been more than this or better than these but that was what is affordable.

Change of oil went through the usual process. Plugs were removed and the tokumbo unused plugs was brushed with iron brush, regapped to 11mm with a gapping tool then sprayed with carb cleaner and installed.

Air filter was removed and blown by a vulcanizer.

The result was obviously positive.

I plan to in the next service;
-Change the air filter which according to the manual be replaced after every 30,000miles.

-Inspect and adjust valves which the manual states 110kmiles as the due time and my car is at 118kmiles at the moment. Valve adjustment specs for 2003 accord K24A1
Intake: 0.21-0.25mm (0.008-0.010in)
Exhaust: 0.28-0.32mm (0.011-0.013in)

-Change gear oil with Genuine Honda DW1 ATF found in Konga for N1,800 for 1litre. I will buy 3 which will cost N5,400 plus 1k shipping making 6.4k. According to manual its due at 120kmiles.

-Change engine coolant which is at Konga too and due at 120kmiles and subsequently every 60kmiles.

The ones i have not planned are brake fluid replacement (every 3years) and power steering oil replacement. I do rotate my tires every 10kmiles.

Mind you, that check engine light is due to Air/fuel ratio sensor which i have been looking for for months now.

What are your car's recommendation and how close arw you to doing service according to the manual?

Have you done the valves check/adjustment? Should be doing this too

adanny01:
Its now at least 350 miles and no sign of the P0420 and my mileage couple with the new fuel price is quite better, i cant smile harder than i am doing now.

I think you're clear then. I can't but imagine how broad your smile would be, given you almost fabricated a spacer and considered fitting a straight pipe. Always good to have no warning lamps on the dash

Have you been able to get a visual on where the pump is leaking from?

adanny01:
UPDATE!!!

Over the weekend, as i was thinking of what to use to fabricate the O2 spacer, i thought of changing my spark plugs since i had a hunch they are not so good. I checked the exhaust tube and intake air leaks as guided from the list below.

Possible causes
- Three way catalyst converter Bank 1
- Exhaust tube
- Intake air leaks
- Fuel injectors may be faulty
- Fuel injector leaks
*Spark plugs may be faulty*
- Improper ignition timing
- Engine Control Module (ECM)


Then i changed the spark plugs, and my mileage improved from my 110mile trip this morning and no CEL for over 200miles so far. I am still watching and in a couple of days if the CEL does not come back, then i shall conclude the spark plugs are responsible for the P0420.

I have suspended the fabrication but had already purchased a 16mm torque wrench attachment to weld onto a 22mm nut to fit the O2 sensor. The next thing was to buy the 22mm nut, weld and thread the other end.

Pic below show;
1. and 2. 16mm torque wrench attachment
3. O2 sensor with probe in the socket wrench
4. Red arrow shows where i will cut away to reduce the space the sensor will be away from exhaust flow. The yellow arrow shows the extend of treading which is about the same with where the probe end will be and the blue arrow shows where the welded nut will be. Dont mind the worn thread on the O2, it is an old bad one.

My major challenge was to be the threading and the thickness of the attachment. Any ideas?

Good to hear this. Shows the importance of ruling out other causes of codes. If you've done up to 200miles I think it most probably gone for good.

Emperoh:
So far, the plug defouler/spacer seems the cheapest option for this now.
if this doesn't work, what i will do is to plan to change the offending catalyst. It feels like luxury, that any time i clear my codes and not see xmas lights on my instrument cluster.

You have a point right there, I remember a friend whose car had not only the Xmas light, but SRS, ABS...all kinds of light I wondered how he manages with viewing his cluster.lol
I remember my CEL coming on once due to low engine oil, I was just about to start driving but decided to check the dipstick, alas! oil was below low mark. You know what would have happened if I already had a CEL prior...I may have only been alerted by the grave low oil pressure light or had serious damage to the engine

Piyke:
I have now driven more than 150miles since replacing this downstream O2 sensor, no CEL. I would keep driving and see if it's now gone for good.

I have now driven above 220miles since installing this o2 sensor...no CEL.

I think at this point I can say that the faulty O2 sensor was both responsible for the P0141 and the P0420 that came after some time of having the P0141.

My next update milestone will be 500miles.

I have now driven more than 150miles since replacing this downstream O2 sensor, no CEL. I would keep driving and see if it's now gone for good.

adanny01:
No, i wont.

By my understanding of the youtube videos i watched, its obvious that is not needed. By getting the P0142 does not mean the CAT is out of use but below threshold. The O2 spacer is to take the sensor away from the exhaust flow stream which makes the O2 detect a little more of oxygen and would seem a normal reading after the cat system produces less. Taking out the cat entirely would not help since the spacer will not be able to get some supply of O2. If the spacer fails to clear the code i will consider buying a used one.

However, its a challenge to buy a used one since even as expensive as it is being sold, you will have to drive atleast 100miles to know if your purchase is good enough not to produce the P0142. By that time my brothers in the mechanic wont take it back unless that dealer is too good.

For now, i will look to order the spacer from Amazon.

Eventually you may need to gut out the cat, my bro had this same problem on his 03 Camry, from the time the P0420 appeared on his vehicle it took 2years plus for the car to come to the point where the car barely moved despite throttling. He finally gutted it and replaced with aftermarket cat and the CEL has been off for about a year now.

Piyke:
Exactly, OP I think you should flush and replace with T-IV fluid and then post your results

nurey:
Toyota sienna 1st generation was from 1998 to 2003, 1998 to 2000 are same until minor changes from 2001 to 2003. I have seen the dip stick of 2000 and 2001 and it says dextron iii not type-iv or anything else and the recommended engine oil is 5W30 api,sj etc. If dextron iii is used and u have issues, they you have simply used fake gear oil.

Good to learn this model uses Dextron III. Thanks Nurey

DECOtech:
If your ATF has turned black, It means your tranny fibres are burnt out and lost its gripping ability so the gears slip. The fibres can be changed sha.




How long did you use the old oil and what type of oil was it?

Note that toyota has its own recommended ATF
It is labelled: TOYOTA Type T-iv .

Exactly, OP I think you should flush and replace with T-IV fluid and then post your results

adanny01:
I successfully unscrewed the O2 sensor this afternoon. However, the spark plug defouler would not fit in it while the threaded section of the defouler is smaller than the hole in the exhaust.

I ran a live scan after that with RPM at 3000 and the B1S2 voltage steadied at around 0.6volts. The range at idle was between 0.1-0.9 volts but sometimes passing 0.9 but not up to 1.0. See the max at the red marker in the screen shot below.

Don't know much about defoulers but I'm guessing there are larger sizes. I think the test reading looks good. What Ericthecarguy said to be bad is rapid switching between lean and rich.
Do you plan to hollow out the cat, before fitting the defouler?

lonelydora:
Exactly my thought. I changed my sensors with new ones but the CEL came back after some journey to Akwa Ibom. I will try the spacer and defouler method once my mechanic comes back.

What code were you having, P0141? have you ruled out a broken no 18 under dash fuse? I trust you used OEM grade replacements.

adanny01:
Thanks and yes the cel came back after being cleared
4 times. Each time took at least 50miles to come back.

Should be doing journeys well in excess of 100miles this week, so will see what happens. Although previously, once I clear the P0141 and drive some few miles it usually comes back. Will update new developments.

adanny01:
Impressive!

You will get from my post on the water-in-ecu episode that i got the dreaded P0420 right after. I have decided to try installing the spark plug defouler inplace of the O2 sensor spacer in attempt to clear the code and eliminate the resultant open loop. I dont know were to get the spacer locally and the defouler is cheap.

My challenge is that my mechanic couldnt get the sensor loose. I will make a second attempt tomorrow but my fear is that the sensor may get damaged in the process of losing.

Piyke:
Remove the 4 10" bolts holding the heat shield in place. I had to do this as the O2 socket that I have is not deep enough to reach the O2 sensor with the heat shield in place.
Heat shield off! (1st pic)
With the heat shield off, use the O2 socket to slacken the O2 sensor (anticlockwise). Haynes manual recommended running the engine for a minute or 2 before doing this(this should be before you disconnect the sensor connector). I did this first thing in the morning without starting the car and was surprised at how easy it was to slacken the sensor.
The 2nd pic shows the catalytic converter with the O2 sensor off.

Has your P0420 come back after you cleared it? I'm guessing that by the time you drive to your mechanic, the whole assembly would be heated up as against turning on the car for a minute or 2 as recommended by Haynes. You may try this.

A simple test to confirm if your cat is actually bad is to hook up ur scanner in datastream mode, start the car and allow to get to operating temp (86deg at least) then hold your RPM at 3000 and observe the bank1sensor2 voltage reading, it should stick around 0.5volts. If it's reading keeps switching between lean n rich the cat may be out.

If it still proves difficult to slacken the O2 sensor, you may need to have a thread chaser handy just in case you damage the cat threads.

Thanks Decotech for such gesture. Would you be giving an update on the event? e.g. no of car scanned

adeniyisavage:
where did u purchase the sensor and for what price?

I got the part number from a US Honda dealer site e.g. hondapartscheap.com but got it from Amazon.com for $47 I think.
I have since seen new Denso O2 sensors at coal camp market Enugu. So it should be available here

After doing this, I've cleared the codes with the scanner, so far no CEL would keep driving and update...

wura2020:
I am very impressed with your pictorial presentation. It will help a lot of DIY enthusiasts but mechanics will be cursing you for depriving them of an avenue to fleece motorists. Pls how do I get your type of scanner and how much does it cost? Can it scan Lexus GX470?

Thanks bud. I got the scanner in 2012 from Amazon for over 200GBP I know it will be cheaper now. Yes it would scan your powertrain, ABS, Transmission and SRS for ur Lexus.

Replace the sensor in its place on the catalytic converter and follow the reverse steps.

Next apply anti-seize to the threads of the new O2 sensor... Denso makes the OEM part however, I got the aftermarket Denso which is cheaper than the price on Honda sites. I believe it should be the same OEM stuff . Good enough, it came with anti-seize!

You will now need to prepare the new O2 sensor. Harvest all the plastic connectors from the old O2 sensor, note the position of the first plastic connector i.e the one nearest to the old O2 sensor. Transplant this to the new O2 sensor taking into account the distance from the sensor. The remaining plastic connectors should be attached to their various positions on the underside of the vehicle.

Also note the position of the connector relative to the rubber grommet on both sensors, the new sensor should at least match this noted length, if not adjust, then use adhesive tape to secure the grommet to the O2 sensor wire, this is done on the connector side of the wire not on the O2 sensor side of the wire. The adhesive tape would ensure that the O2 sensor wire does not slip around. Unfortunately I do not have a picture of this.

Old and new side by side...

With the slackened O2 sensor in place disconnect all the plastic connectors holding the O2 sensor wire, then remove the sensor

Remove the 4 10" bolts holding the heat shield in place. I had to do this as the O2 socket that I have is not deep enough to reach the O2 sensor with the heat shield in place.

Heat shield off! (1st pic)

With the heat shield off, use the O2 socket to slacken the O2 sensor (anticlockwise). Haynes manual recommended running the engine for a minute or 2 before doing this(this should be before you disconnect the sensor connector). I did this first thing in the morning without starting the car and was surprised at how easy it was to slacken the sensor.

The 2nd pic shows the catalytic converter with the O2 sensor off.

The O2 sensor attached to the catalytic converter and the heat shield in place.
Hmmm...the frayed O2 sensors wires may well be the reason for the malfunction...
The 2nd pic shows where the O2 sensor wire enters the vehicle via the rubber grommet.