₦airaland Forum

nihilistjnr:
Congrats you've finally landed at the point that we established almost 72 hours ago

Wetin you dey talk? I'm saying Hazard's talent is so inferior to that of Messi that It would take an Ororo-style work ethic and drive to get him anywhere near that level.

Make I break am down for you

Hazard talent << Messi talent

Hazard talent + CR7 drive <<= Messi 's talent

nihilistjnr:
This is exactly what we are saying about Hazard

This debate was purely about talent. There was no mention of hard work at the beginning. Maybe if Hazard had CR7's work ethic and drive, it would propel him to the same level as Messi. BUT definitely not by his talent alone.

nihilistjnr:
You better go an read the interview with renee meulensteen if you dont know how Ororo went from diving showboat with little end product to WPOTY.

Bottom line is the talent was already there. He only needed to work harder and change his game. You can't give what you don't have.

nihilistjnr:
Did Messi even play in the final of the first UCL he won?

Messi did not lead anybody anywhere.

The leaders were Xavi and Iniesta.

Since Xavi left, Messi cannot lead Barca past Juventus (Barca didn't even score), Roma, and Atletico

Lead ko, city ni

This is definitely trolling No need to say anything.

nihilistjnr:
Ororo is a different kind of beast abeg.

That guy is not working on talent. Infact, Ororo doesn't use his original talent of dribbling anymore.

Ororo has rebuilt himself as a machine. He's the terminator.

Infact I would argue that Ororo is the ultimate triumph of application over talent. Messi is naturally more talented than Ororo.

So Ororo talent no pass dribbling? Chai, why you dey do like this?

I think we need to bust this myth of CR7 being all hardwork. The man had talent to begin with, and he supplemented it with incredible discipline and work ethic. If you no get talent, if you like work out and train from now till tomorrow, you won't get to the very top on a individual level.

nihilistjnr:
Talent = Ability

If you give someone like Lukaku or Morata 10 years, they will not be able to score those kind of silky goals that we've seen Messi and Hazard score in the past.

Once we establish the baseline talent ability, it's now a case of how frequently the players in this brackets can do this tings.

Then we look at the mitigating factors.

I can bet both my testicles that for all his amazing talent, Messi does not achieve half of everything he's achieved if he played for Chelsea for 6 seasons.

infact, I don't think Messi would get past Hazard level. If he does, it would be a small difference. If you say its a lie, why didnt he do it with Argebtina?

But put Hazard in that Barca team, and I can bet he wins all the competitions that Messi won - and why not? Pedro won most of those trophies too. Hleb won some. Even Bojan playing at Stoke City with Etebo today won 2 UCLs and like 4 league titles.

This is the argument that I made. Theres a level of nuance that you people just don't want to see until we use omorogun to smack it into your collective agbaris

So Pedro, Hleb and Bojan would have led Barca to all those trophies without Messi? This man, ehn.

Here's an hypothetical scenario. Messi and Hazard switch clubs. Messi to Chelsea, Hazard to Barca. Can Messi replicate Hazard's achievements at Chelsea? I bet you, he will top it. Hazard on the other hand, will win trophies at Barca BUT not as much as they would win with Messi.

EvilMetahuman:
and I'm still sure you guys are not comprehending nihilist..

His stand has always been,Messi and hazard have equal talent, which I agree with..
Messi cannot achieve half of what he achieved playing for Chelsea or playing under coaches like mourinho or Conte. Never!

Hazard would have achieved more if he started his club career proper at Barca and under managers like pep.


Messi is super talented and lucky. Hazard is super talented but not as lucky..

Guy, if you talk the bolded again, walahi I go wire you slap

Did Ororo not score 50+ goals consecutively under the same Mourinho? Or did Lampard not score bucketload of goals under Mourinho? Did Hazard not finally top his league tally for goals under Conte last season?

nihilistjnr:
How is what I said different to this

Kai! You be weyrey o From where you go dig out this post from This post must be nothing less than 4 years old Bascard!!

I did acknowledge that there was a difference in talent, only that it was not much. You said Hazard's talent was the same as Messi's. Ibra's stats are not that far from that of Messi and Ororo's. The man has won league titles in different countries, and has numerous personal accolades to his name. His achievements speak for him. What has Hazard done to merit being mentioned in this same bracket as Messi and CR7 talent-wise.

airmark:
But Zidane is a huge fan of Hazard. There must be something wrong with Isco or something right with Hazard, for a successful coach like Zidane to have such views. Maybe he saw it the way I saw it too - Isco is Hazard-wannabe.

Ororo is gone, Isco should do his kitchen job with palm oil, convince his manager to become the main man. Time no dey.

Why did Zidane not buy Hazard or even table an official bid all these years? He should have sold Isco and bought Hazard since he's so much of an upgrade on Isco. Everything na just talk. Which is cheap, by the way.

Abeg, can you tell me the number of matches Real has won since Isco got injured? Please feel free to tell me the number of goals they've scored since then. Don't worry, lemme help you. Zero!! 0 wins, 0 goals in 4 straight games without Isco. The last time Isco played was the last time they scored and won. That is to show how influential he is in this current Madrid side.

EvilMetahuman:
It's like these people are getting it wrong.


No one is saying hazard is better than Messi...
Having same talent or pattern of play as Messi doesn't necessarily mean that he is better than Messi... Zaha might have same talent or pattern of play as hazard but that doesn't mean he is better than hazard.


Hazard hasn't achieved half of what Messi has achieved and probably never will cos Messi is on another level..
He will have to achieve at least 80% of what Messi has achieved to make any meaningful comparison.

So it will be insane to say hazard is better than Messi.
Same way it is insane to say that zaha is better than hazard.


Neymar vs hazard on the other hand is a better comparison.


Let us learn to comprehend stuff before talking.

Is that not what we've been trying to tell your people? Nihilist said the difference between Messi and Hazard is not the talent, but the mentality and supporting cast. And you expect us to keep quiet in the presence of such heresy.

Was that not why I said because Hazard can do some or most of the things Messi does, doesn't mean he does it as well as Messi. "Similarity in style of play does not translate to equality in talent"

Na so one of una talk say without goals, Hazard dey the same level with Messi and CR7. Does that statement make any sense to you?

Nihilist just carry all of una put for One Chance bus It's no surprise the likes of Ibim.e, nateev.s and FB-S wanted nothing to do with this nonsense. Nihilist na devil

airmark:
Is he the main man now? Was he even auxiliary man when ororo dey? His inconsistency won't make him any main man in any big team whether ororo or palm oil dey or not.

Is there any standout best player at Real Madrid currently? Even the supposed best player in the world Modric is on the same level as Kroos, Marcelo and Ramos.

Under Lopetegui's Spain, Isco was the best player. Why? Because he had a manager who trusted him enough to hand him the freedom and license to do whatever he wanted. It's no news that Zidane wasn't as much a big fan of Isco. The same thing happened to James. And we all saw how James beasted under Heynckes.

Even at that, Isco still did enough for Zidane to pick him, even over Bale at times. He certainly wasn't a passenger when they won the CL last season.

Na Nihilist I blame for all these rubbish. Na im start all this madness.

We actually went from discussing Hazard vs Neymar to Hazard vs Messi

Coutinho14:
do you also want to check their assist stats? what of pass completion rates? y'all should just focus on the Hazard Vs Neymar debate coz as ridiculous as that sounds, its better to sound ridiculous than to sound dumb

Shekpites are a funny lot. Tell them to bring up the most relevant stats; goals and assists, dem no fit. Na to dey shout takeons completed, Chances created and PL and Whoscored MOTM awards Imagine!

Hazard doesn't even have up to half of Messi's assists, and he is brnging up chances created.

There is pretty much nothing Hazard does better than Messi.

airmark:
Why is he not a main man? Isco is Hazard-wannabe.

So you expect Isco to be the main man for where Ororo dey? You dey hear yourself?

nihilistjnr:
definition of supporting cast is irrelevant.

context of usage is key.

or am I to assume that you really think I'm sweating over a bucket of elubo and water right now?

There is no point in us arguing any further since we can't even agree on what we think a supporting cast is.

So, case closed

nihilistjnr:
when I'm talking about supporting cast, I'm talking about constituent members of the team surrounding the player in question.

I'm not talking about main man or Batman or Darkseid.

Now you wan start to dey turn amala. The one wey you do yesterday never reach.

You really need to look up the meaning of "supporting cast".

airmark:
Pkasso wasn't himself when he posted that.

You no dey OK. I'm still sticking to what I said. Abeg, is Isco the main man at Real as Hazard is at Chelsea?

nihilistjnr:
so Isco did not follow the Madrid players to win 3 back to back UCLs?

Maybe during that period, the guy added a 'C' to his name, climbed into a server rack, and pretended to be a router for 3 seasons

Bro, calm down. Isco WAS PART of the supporting cast, not the main man. Ororo was the main man. It was Ororo's team. Marcelo, Ramos, Kroos, Modric, Casemiro and even Benzema all made up CR7's supporting cast. It's like a wolf pack, there is the alpha and there are betas.

Ororo na Batman and Isco was just one of his many Robins . I don't know if you are getting this.

Or are you saying Isco has the same status Hazard has at Chelsea?

If anything, we should be saying Isco has the level of talent as Hazard. After all, they are also very similar players. And I could also make the same excuse of mentality and lack of supporting cast.

Isco is the true definition of shakushaku. The guy fit dribble the same player 4 times on a spot, even there is an opportunity to pass or shoot. If only he could be serious and cut out the unnecessary feints and nutmegs, there is no reason why he can't match Hazard.

Isco has never been and will never be the main man at Madrid unlike Hazard who is the superstar at Chelsea. He has never had a supporting cast to begin with. Who is to say Isco won't surpass Hazard's achievements if he has a team of his own? His stellar performances for Spain has shown if you hand this man the keys, he's capable of doing magic.

Isco at Malaga was the main man. I still remember his performances in the 2012/13 CL season. He and Goetze were the best young players that year . The same season Hazard joined Chelsea and couldn't save them from dropping to the Europa league, Isco was only a few seconds from leading Malaga to their first ever CL semifinal in their first ever season. Only for them to concede 2 goals in injury time against Dortmund. That Malaga team was in debts and had sold some of their best players. What if Isco had a better supporting cast?

Isco is on the same talent level as Hazard. Do you agree, nihilstjnr?

Greatihex:
But you should know though that hazard is a more accurate dribbler.

Hazard a more accurate dribbler than Messi? I don't understand, please explain.

nihilistjnr:
Nah seriously though...

where did Messi carry Barca to?

I want to know like Joe.

"Carried the team on his back" na figure of speech. Are you satisfied? Can I go and sleep now?

nihilistjnr:
Messi carried Barca from where to where?

Is he a BRT bus?

You no well! I no get time for this your nonsense. I dey go sleep.

homesteady:
Your statement would have sounded more sensible if you had said Iniesta and not Xavi. Xavi was a peripheral figure in our 2015 UCL triumph, which we would have still won if he didn't play.

Thank you. I was just about to say this. Rakitic was the one starting that year. Xavi only played the odd games. Safe to say, he was a passenger.

nihilistjnr:
Talent wise Messi and Hazard are very similar if not the same exactly.


Nobody with 2 functioning eyes would look at Messi and Hazard play and not see the striking similarities in their style Of play.

The 2 major differences between Messi and Hazard are:

1. Application - or how they use that talent, and
2. Supporting Cast.


Messi can never achieve what he does in Barca in this current Chelsea team. Never. Aguero is arguably a better striker than any striker Chelsea has ever had in the history of the club and Messi cannot even drag him to any sort of international trophy.

Now imagine what Hazard has suffered playing with Morata and Yoko last year.

some of Hazard's Chelsea team mates are players that were deemed not good enough to play with Messi at club level and chased away - Fabregas, and Pedro for example.

So Hazard is playing with aloku barca products sef.

Let Messi come and play with Victor Moses and Emerson Palmwine first, make I hear word

Similarity in style of play doesn't necessarily translate to equality in quality Anthony Knockaert and Felipe Anderson have similar styles of play to Hazard, does that mean they are on the same level. Hazard is similar to Messi but Messi performs at a higher level. Messi has a higher volume of production. This is what separates the real deal from pretenders.

Hazard is the captain of a star-studded Belgian national team. What has he achieved with those group of players, some of which are the best in the world. Only a third-place finish at the World Cup. And you say someone like that would replicate Messi's feats at Barca.

Messi has basically had to carry this Barca team on his back in the last few years. No Xavi, no Alves. Neymar left, Iniesta suffered a decline in form and quality before finally leaving. Pique is a joke these days and Messi is stuck with a wastepipe in Suarez as striker. How is that any different to what Hazard has at Chelsea?

I mean the man practically plays CM these days and still manages to rack up goals and assists. The day Hazard does that with little or no support is when I will agree he is on the level as Messi talent-wise.


I swear, I don't know why I'm even doing this.

nihilistjnr:
You made reference to FIFA 19 ratings

Hazard top

Messi bottom

Is Messi that far out of reach of Hazard?

it doesn't look like that to me.

Of course these are just game ratings, and I only brought them up because you said FIFA 19.

FIFA19 ratings or not, Hazard is definitely not on the same talent level as Messi. He is not even more talented than Neymar.

Even if you take out Messi's goals like someone suggested, he still beats Hazard. So stop this nonsense.

Nihilist, you still dey repeat that nonsense about Hazard and Messi. E be like say you wan make we drag this night

Unlimited22:
Lemme check their top speeds so far...
Hazard has really good acceleration, but so does Messi.
In fact, sometimes it seems Messi is faster WITH the ball than WITHOUT it.

I hope you know Adama Traore is the fastest player in the world, at least according to FIFA19. Shey na 100m we dey run ni?

"Hazard is more physical" Does that make any sense to you? One would expect a sensible fan to come up with relevant criteria like vision, dribbling, creativity etc.

But to indulge him, Messi is 31 and naturally has lost some of his explosiveness over the years. He is still quick enough and has a speed of thought second to none.

BlueAngel444:
Hazard is faster than Messi. His more physical and as quicker bust (turn of pace) with the ball than Messi.

oya now tell us why Lagos is greater than Paris.?

Choi. What is this? It's like these shekpites are in a competition to outdo each other in spitting nonsense.

Unlimited22:

I just remembered that Igbo proverb about the rat following the lizard to swim, forgetting that the lizard had scaly skin that protected him from cold...

Na wetin the Yorubas dey call afarawe be that.

The guy don forget say Nihilist na veteran of many battles and that his cred here could help him get away with saying nonsense at times. No be the same guy wey swear Bakayoko beta pass Matic

But wait o, everybody don forget say na Nihilist first talk say Hazard get the same level of talent as Messi and Ororo That one na another scandalous claim. But because say na Nihilist, nobody too follow am drag and he got away with it

The other guy, probably emboldened by the way Nihilist escaped without much questioning thought he could do the same. He never experred it

Nihilist, you are a very wicked sombori See as you drag your fellow human being enter koto

Omo, e be like say elubo don finally finish o. Abi our cooks don succumb to shoulder pain from excessive turning?

Jemi7:
I have read a lot of nonsense in my life, but this? This tops it. Let's take away goals from Messi and Ronaldo and Puncheon is on par, Zaha is on Par, Traore is on par, Lennon is on par, Every attacker in the world is on par. How the fnck do some people reason? How well do they think before they talk or type? Just imagine talk. Very shocking

The kain weed wey the guy take, I no know. Even the original stoner weedtaker no fit talk this kain nonsense.