₦airaland Forum

hardasan:
What the apostles decided to do with the tithes and contribution no concern you.

This is what he wanted response to:

I wonder why money is not distributed in Churches today .

Not what the Apostles did.

2kaybiel:
Sir, for those of us that are following the discussion so far, your stance is that moment a Christian is saved is saved for ever[once saved always saved]?

Now, a Christian that was saved change his faith or belief[maybe by converting to another religion just as we have it these days] is such a person still save in Christ following your stance on the topic?

In the Old Testament God chose a people for himself - Israel. That choice COMMITTED him to them.

In spite of his relationship with Israel, there were SEVERAL times in Israel's history that they ACTUALLY TURNED TO other gods - Baal, etc. In other words, they changed their religion.

When they did, God always punished them but NEVER disowned them as his people. He never went back on the COMMITMENT he had made to them.

When a Christian changes his faith he will like Israel be under divine discipline - Hebrews 12:5-11. If he does not take correction and make necessary adjustment by getting back into fellowship with God and dies in that state 1 Cor. 3:15 applies.

Because God has placed a GUARANTEE on the Christian - Ephesians 1:13-14 he (God) remains COMMITTED to that guarantee and remains faithful to keep what has been committed to him till the end because he cannot deny his commitment - 2 Timothy 2:13.

Jacksonville:
You're clearly not speaking the mind of God. It's OK.

Can you take my points one by one and SHOW clearly how I'm not speaking the mind of God?

If they are too much for you to handle just pick one and show us.

If not, I demand an apology from you for being haughty.

Jacksonville:
Following your logic, you must understand that tithes in the historic times were given in form of what you earn for a living.. The Israelites were dependant mainly on agricultural produce ,hence they give their tithes and offerings in such form, not neglecting the fact that some also gave in talents of gold n silver , and shekels according to the produce, property's money worth(like ananaiah and Sapphira) .

Comparing this modern era with the ancient times, people now earn 'monies' for job done or trade.. And they decide to give in monetary form . I've only seen people giving agricultural produce in thanksgiving services 'nd all, it's widely accepted.
..........
1corinthians 9:14 In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.
..........
Acts 20:33-34.
33.I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel.
[34] Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me.

It is not just my logic like you're saying. I'm stating what is CLEARLY in the Bible.

Tithing by Israel was a COMMAND from God.

They didn't give whatever they wanted to give. They HAD TO GIVE what God COMMANDED them to give.

Other trades and professions had ALWAYS EXISTED historically EVEN IN ISRAEL. In spite of that God commanded that TITHES be paid ONLY from AGRICULTURAL PRODUCE.

Anyone who claims that tithing in Israel was other than agricultural produce is simply not speaking from the BIBLE.

The New Testament CLEARLY states how the early church gave and how the Christian is to give. When the Christian therefore seeks to GO BACK to ANY old system to live his spiritual life, such a person is ARROGANTLY declaring that he is rejecting the GRACE OFFER of God under the New Covenant.

hardasan:
But suggests that there is a clause or catch.
Mint, dill and cummin are spices which were easily grown in the backyard or in a flower pot. It's just like growing tomatoes in your backyard garden and paying tithe on the fruits. So the pharisees tithed till they even gave tithe of their food spices yet Christ condemned them for basing more on things that they can brag about or do publicly so people will call them righteous people while they neglect or reject forgiveness and the other laws of righteousness.

When you used the word BUT in your statement you negated what you previously said. Grace and Law are antithetical. Paul said so in Romans 11 - "But if it is by grace [God’s unmerited favor], it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace [it would not be a gift but a reward for works]."
ROMANS 11:6 AMP

Jesus Christ fulfilled the Law. No man can fulfill ALL the requirements of the Law. And you need to fulfill ALL, not just some, to be justified before God. So, it's either we ride on the back of grace or we choose to go by our own works. I believe you know the end of each.

Grace says: "Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver." 2 Cor. 9:7

Law says: "For whoever keeps the whole Law but stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of [breaking] all of it."
JAMES 2:10 AMP

The LAW represents everything there was before GRACE.

Regarding the mint, dill and cummin, what I'm simply pointing you to is the Christ was still talking about AGRICULTURAL PRODUCE not money. The Pharisees were still thinking in terms of AGRICULTURAL PRODUCE for tithing! This is in addition to the fact that, if you look at the context, Jesus was not praising the Pharisees. He started with "woe!" on them. Here, they were still attempting to go beyond the normal in order to be thought of highly by the rest of the people. Jesus didn't commend them. They were focussing on OUTWARD SHOW while neglecting the unseen but more important matters. It is the same way tithers want to make A BIG DEAL of tithing while ignoring the FACT that they are under grace and should do grace giving.

So, when you say Jesus talked about tithing, the question is "In what context?"

When you say the Bible say 'Pay your tithe' the question is tithe of what? And, tithe according to how God specified it in the Law or according to how the modern church defined it?

I know it's difficult for a person who has held on to position to want to change overnight. I know that many Christians today, who are undernourished in the word of God, would rather hold on to their pastors' position on any issue. Many refuse to "understand" what they are being pointed to in the word of God. Once the position they are being shown FROM THE BIBLE is not in line with their held view they refuse to even give it a thorough look.

The Bible clearly say that Christians are not under the law, but under grace. Romans 6:14. Anyone who INSISTS on putting himself under the Law or any other system apart from GRACE is entangling himself under a yoke of bondage - see Galatians 2:11-22.

Look at where the real curse lies: "For all who depend on the Law [seeking justification and salvation by obedience to the Law and the observance of rituals] are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed (condemned to destruction) is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law , so as to practice them .”
GALATIANS 3:10 AMP

The choice is open for any Christian; whether to choose GRACE or fall back on the LAW.

salvation101:
To say Jesus didn't say anything in support of tithing is totally false.. Here is Jesus statement in matt23:23

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Matthew 23:23 KJV

Incase you didn't understand that last sentence, here is another version..

“It will be bad for you teachers of the law and you Pharisees! You are hypocrites! You give God a tenth of the food you get, even your mint, dill, and cumin. But you don’t obey the really important teachings of the law—being fair, showing mercy, and being faithful. These are the things you should do. And you should also continue to do those other things.
Matthew 23:23 ERV
Now to say Jesus abolished tithing and offering is totally wrong..

Questions :
1. A tenth of what did Jesus say they were giving: FOOD or money?
2. What are mint, dill, and cumin: money or FOOD ITEMS?
3. Do these agree with the FACT that TITHES WERE AGRICULTURAL produce according to the Law?
4. So WHERE did Jesus say it has now been CHANGED to mandatory monetary payment?

petra1:
The church didn’t need to make a new law on tithing they already have the scriptures . Paul also gave a parallel illustration in 1 cor 9:13-14
Sure

Since you are not able to answer my questions directly, which was for you to show us the "principle" on TITHING from the life of the Church in the New Testament I take it that you're basing your position, perhaps even your Christian life, on some ESOTERIC understanding of the Bible.

I have never queried 1 Cor. 9:13-14 so I don't see why you're bringing it in here. Again, nothing in that verse of Scripture pertains to tithing! Yes, I believe Christian ministers are entitled to be taken care of from what believers give but nothing in that portion says it's from tithes.

You keep brandishing "principles", "principles", yet you have NOT BEEN ABLE to either define it clearly for us or show us how they apply to the New Covenant.

I thought this thread is about tithing. Why bring up some extraneous matter of incest unconnected to tithing? Let's not confuse issues.

Let's do a little Bible study:
When Malachi 4:4 says: "Remember the law of my servant Moses, the decrees and laws I gave him at Horeb for all Israel" how does that relate to the preceding words spoken by Malachi?

Does it not show that God expected his audience to TITHE ACCORDING TO the Mosaic Law?

Now, what did tithes consist of ACCORDING TO the Mosaic Law?

If you therefore INSIST that the New Covenant believer MUST tithe because of Malachi 3, what makes you IGNORE this portion of Malachi 4? (Some spirit-led understanding or fresh "revelation"?)

Are we not therefore to TITHE ACCORDING TO the Mosaic Law?

Malachi was a WHOLE. I expect you to know that. What gives you guys the LIBERTY to pick and choose whichever portion you want and DECIDE on how to MODIFY it to suit your CONCOCTED position on tithing?

If you claim you want to give people the TRUTH you need to be OPEN, STRAIGHTFORWARD and HONEST. If these are there it should be easy to SHOW from Scripture what you're claiming on tithing.

PS
I think you inserted your statement into mine that you copied. You may need to modify your post for clarity sake.

hardasan:
Yes, we are no longer under a schoolmaster but under Christ.
These are summarized as grace. But the law still stands.

Hardasan, When you use the word BUT what does it suggest?

hardasan
If you say christians aren't under the law of Moses, you are saying that the 10 commandements does not apply to christains anymore.

Matthew 23:23International Children’s Bible (ICB)

23 “How terrible for you, teachers of the law and Pharisees! You are hypocrites! You give to God one-tenth of everything you earn—even your mint, dill, and cummin.[a] But you don’t obey the really important teachings of the law—being fair, showing mercy, and being loyal. These are the things you should do, as well as those other things.

Matthew 23:23Good News Translation (GNT)
23 “How terrible for you, teachers of the Law and Pharisees! You hypocrites! You give to God one tenth even of the seasoning herbs, such as mint, dill, and cumin, but you neglect to obey the really important teachings of the Law, such as justice and mercy and honesty. These you should practice, without neglecting the others.

Here, the bible says: pay your tithe but don't omit the weightier matters of the law.

Hardasan, what are mint, dill and cummin?

hardasan:

Matthew 5:17-20King James Version (KJV)

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.



Here's another bible version :


Matthew 5:17-20Good News Translation (GNT)

Teaching about the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to do away with the Law of Moses and the teachings of the prophets. I have not come to do away with them, but to make their teachings come true. 18 Remember that as long as heaven and earth last, not the least point nor the smallest detail of the Law will be done away with—not until the end of all things.[a]
19 So then, whoever disobeys even the least important of the commandments and teaches others to do the same, will be least in the Kingdom of heaven. On the other hand, whoever obeys the Law and teaches others to do the same, will be great in the Kingdom of heaven.
20 I tell you, then, that you will be able to enter the Kingdom of heaven only if you are more faithful than the teachers of the Law and the Pharisees in doing what God requires.

Guess what ?
Jesus himself said that

Keep things in perspective!

hardasan:
What about lesbianism, transgenders, incest, nudism etc. Are they not all some kind of love howbeit a perverted type. Or since the NT didn't condemn them, are they okay ?

Keep things in perspective!

MuttleyLaff:
Nothing personal.
I need to correct a lie.
I wonder why some, don’t want others to see the error when and where they are being misled and demanded to give tithe

There is no must in giving, talkless of a must to give tithe.

It is nowhere written, to say exactly how much must be given or must be done.

It however, is written, that, without prejudice, you give how much you have decided in your heart, you give what you are please with and won't be sorrowful about it at the end of or after the giving

The percentage you give is not fixed or stipulated.
You can decide to give 1%,
Or decide to give 10% today, as in 10% equals a tenth or tithe.
Decide to give half or 50% tomorrow,
Decide to give all or 100%, the following day.
Decide to give nothing or 0% another day
Decide to give 1% again some other day

As we can see, there is nothing fixed.
Giving is not cast in a tithe or 10% stone.
Anyone that tells you different,
has a low understanding of each tithe mentions in the bible, particularly the tithe Abraham performed
and doesn't appreciate the revolutionary way of giving for the purpose of the Kingdom

Why is this so DIFFICULT for tithers to see?

petra1

You’re wrong . It is error to capitalize on the silent areas of the Bible . The silent area mean “maintain the status quo!

Any scriptural basis for this?

The New Testament was silent on the area of incest . Sleeping with your sister or your father etc

You won’t find a New Testament verse . On it . Now . If a man wants to marry his own daughter what will you tell him . Since there is no law according to you ?

The apostles didn’t attempt to write a new bible . Their Bible was the Old Testament . Paul quoted

Show me where Christians are Commaded not to marry siblings

So you’re free to do homosexuality now ?

Christians are asked to walk in LOVE. When they do this will these issues not be addressed?

Nice question

Without the law , there would be lawlessness Sin is transgression of the law.

Jesus Christ summarized the Law, didn't he? Did the Apostles run by that summary of the Law? Is that summary not sufficient for ANY Christian to live by?

The only thing done away in the law are what christ has fulfilled but the kingdom principles contained in the law are forever . Not because the law say so but because they are principles

You are yet to define or explain to us what these "kingdom principles" really are.
Christ fulfilled the Law mean Christ fulfilled the Law! Period.
The book of Hebrews is CLEAR that EVERYTHING before Christ has been done away with!
What the Christian needs to understand today is what his life IN CHRIST entails!

asuustrike2009:
You should study and ask the holy spirit questions regarding tithing not what you think or know.

Ok. It's just that I "Don’t want to let anyone capture me with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ." - Colossians 2:8

petra1:
It is deceptive and a big error and a lie . Tithes have always been to God right from the days of. Our father Abraham . God still told the Jews to give him his tithe
.......
You’re wrong . The kingdom of God runs on principles . Principles cut across dispensation . Some before the law others in the law . They are relevant to Christians.

Paul didn’t write the epistles as bible or to complete the Bible. (REALY?) They were letters written to deal with situations .
....
They had the Bible . If there was any problem with tithe or offering they would have said it .If the church was silent about it it means to maintain status quo.

1. Why have you not been able to show us the "principle" on TITHING from the life of the Church in the New Testament.

2. Show us and the matter will be settled once and for all.

3. Is the Christian under GRACE? If so, what does that mean as far as his giving is concerned? Focus your response on giving or tithing so that the matter is clear. Don't bring in other issues that may confuse us. Any other deductions will be mere SPECULATION on your part.

4. One case of ours is this: If tithing is as serious as you guys are making it out to be, to such an extent that a church leader will attach curse to it, then it is critical that we see where the CHURCH is told she must practice it.

5. So, please, in case we missed it, show us again this "principle", AS IT RELATES TO TITHING, from the epistles since you said it cuts across dispensations.

asuustrike2009:
It's not specific or precise to the point.

"Study and do your best to present yourself to God approved, a workman [tested by trial] who has no reason to be ashamed, accurately handling and skillfully teaching the word of truth."
2 TIMOTHY 2:15 AMP

Ken4Christ:
Everything in the Bible is not truth but everything is truly stated.
.......
I guess you understand what I mean by every word in the Bible is not true because it also contains people's personal opinions. You have to judge within the context what is inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Even Apostle in some of his submissions will say, I but not the Lord. He emphasized sometimes when he wrote his personal opinions.

Before, I speak more on Abraham and the spoils he was said to have offered, I want to point to you two failed prophecies of our Lord Jesus.
..........

I will explain later why this prophecies failed if you care to know.
.........
He is not the writer of the book of Genesis and he was not there when the encounter took place. His submission that Abraham gave 10% of the spoils of the war has nothing to do with being inspired by the Holy Spirit. It has to do with how he understood the story.

You will not tell me that because they are Apostles, they understand everything in the Bible. No, they don't.
......

So, based on my personal study of what transpired between Abraham and Melchizedec, I disagreed with Apostle Paul on his submission.

Before you crucify me, first ask why I disagree and correct me if I am wrong.

All Scripture is God-breathed [given by divine inspiration] and is profitable for instruction, for conviction [of sin], for correction [of error and restoration to obedience], for training in righteousness [learning to live in conformity to God’s will, both publicly and privately--behaving honorably with personal integrity and moral courage];
2 TIMOTHY 3:16 AMP

Cheers!!

asuustrike2009:
Non of the scriptures justify or say tithe shouldn't be paid. Where was it specific not beating around the bush

So, what is the "bush" you think these scriptures are beating about?

Ken4Christ:
Jesus is God but on earth he was fully man. He therefore had limitations in knowledge as a man. He had to be anointed by the Holy Spirit to function in the supernatural. I thought you were going to ask what where the prophecies to know if I was telling the truth.

Everything in the Bible is not necessarily God's word. The devil spoke and it was also recorded. Even some men spoke their opinions and they were recorded. A donkey also spoke and it was recorded. Will you say that the word of the donkey and the devil is anointed because it's in the Bible?

Hope you know that you've not stayed with the issues. This happens when you're so eager to reply a post rather than first take time to see the point being made.

It is not about whether what the devil said or what a donkey said is recorded in Scripture. It is that God DEEMED IT FIT to have recorded for us what we have in Scripture. And what is recorded is the TRUTH concerning any particular incident or matter. I hope this is plain enough for you.

Again, it's not about winning an argument.

You said you disagreed with what Apostle Paul said. The question then, for any reader would be: why do you disagree with Paul? I guess it's because you disagree when you think that what he is saying is his PERSONAL opinion.

So, a question for you: Why do you think Hebrews chapter 7:4 "Now consider how great this man was, to whom even the patriarch Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils" is the personal opinion of the writer?

Please limit yourself to DIRECTLY answering this question as stated.

On your second statement which I refered to; why would you want to think for me? Your statements are CLEAR - "Even our Lord Jesus didn't achieve 100% in his prophecies." and this: "Our Lord Jesus even had two prophecies that failed because he was 100% human on earth and didn't know all things."

So another question: What exactly are you trying to point out by these statements so that you don't say we misunderstood you?

asuustrike2009:
Those against tithes haven't pointed one single verses in the Bible which say we shouldn't pay. At least when thet argue, argue with prove and in this case is from the Bible. They keep on running from pillar to post without justification

"When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.
Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”
The apostles and elders met to consider this question." Actsc15:4-6

"It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements:


You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

Farewell." Acts 15:28-29

"For Christ is the end of the law [it leads to Him and its purpose is fulfilled in Him], for [granting] righteousness to everyone who believes [in Him as Savior]."
ROMANS 10:4 AMP

For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” Galatians 3:10

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.” He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit." Galatians 3:13-14

"You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." Galatians 5:4

It should be ON RECORD that the OP had to change the TITLE of this thread.

Even though he didn't say why it may be that it was because he knew he was, ab initio, economical with some details.

In pointing out a person's ERROR it is necessary to CLEARLY state what the person said and then how it is not correct. That a man singled out one out of the different types of tithes does not in itself constitute an error. For example, there are different types of BAPTISMS in the Bible. That a man singles out water baptism and argues on its wrong practice does not necessarily mean he's in error simply because he didn't mention the others. In this case on this thread the OP did just that.

The op never never really quoted what he was fighting against. I guess that as soon as there was a perceived attack on tithing the next thing was for him as an advocate of it to want to fight back.

Most tithes advocates work from THEIR CONCLUSIONS to derive their propositions or explanations that lead to their final stance. The OP happens to have done just that in this case.

A MAJOR issue tithe advocates and indeed many Christians fail to see is that the CHURCH is unique. The failure to seek to understand its uniqueness then leads to lumping up of any practice pre-law, law or "eternal principle" as part of the Christian way of life.

How come tithers ignore the FACT that the book of Acts and the epistles that cover not just 1, 5, 8 or 10 years of church life NEVER gave us ANYTHING about tithing in the Church?

How come modern day tithe advocates TOTALLY IGNORE how the early Church GAVE and ADMINISTERED proceeds of giving by believers?

Ken4Christ:
I never said Apostle Paul was in error. I only said I don't agree with his statement that Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils to Melchizedec.



Even our Lord Jesus didn't achieve 100% in his prophecies. There are two prophecies that didn't come to pass the way he said it. That doesn't diminish my reverence for him. He is still my Lord and Saviour.

These your two statements CLEARLY show that you have a lot of learning to do like I counselled before now.

When Paul, or any writer of scriptures for that matter say something and you DISAGREE with what they said, you're not disagreeing with them, you're disagreeing with God. "All scripture is God-breathed " means they were writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Then as to Jesus's prediction not being 100% accurate I don't know what to begin to make of you!

I hope you know that what you're saying is that the God-man was not as perfect as he was made out to be. Indeed you're saying that God was not 100% accurate, and do you know the IMPLICATIONS of that?

If you are a Christian you need to do like I've said before: go back to Children Sunday School to learn the BASICS of Christianity.

Ken4Christ:
The arguments of ........

We pay tithe not as a matter of law but by revelation and love. That is why some of use even give much more than our tithes to God.

Examine the teachings of .

The bolded is a new one!

You're frantically looking for a way out!

Ken4Christ:
It's a challenge. I am not seeking cheap popularity. I know who I am. You have believed a lie which could cost you your soul in hell. You are indirectly fighting the advancement of the gospel but your evil schemes will not stand in the name of Jesus. Ameeeeeen.

Remember what I told you? This is it again:
You can't understand basics of Christianity and you want to engage in an OPEN debate; calling for it in another thread. Please go back to Children Sunday School and learn.

So, now it's tithing that saves from hell!
And it's tithing that advances the gospel!

A little lesson:
"Works" do not save - "He saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, but because of His own pity and mercy ..." Titus 3:5

" For it is by free grace (God's unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ's salvation) through (your) faith. And this (salvation) is not of yourself (of your own doing, it came not through your own striving), but it is the GIFT of God;
Not because of works (not the fulfilment of the Law's demands), LEST any man should boast. (It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself). Ephesians 2:8-9 AMP

Did Jesus say "Tithing will build my church"? or "I will build my church"? So, who advances the gospel? Notice I didn't say 'WHAT'?

Seeking cheap popularity.

It's not about winning arguments. It's about knowing and ACCEPTING God's view on any issue.

If you can't understand that that is what it is then you still have a Looooooong way to go!

Ken4Christ:
Do the priest of old give financial records to the people for auditing? Did the Apostles did that. Men of God are only accountable to God and not man. If they mismanage or misappropriate the fund, it is God who will judge them and not man.

See what Apostle Paul said:
"We want to avoid any criticism of the way we administer this liberal gift. For we are taking pains to do what is right, not only in the eyes of the Lord but also in the eyes of man." 2 Cor. 8:20-21

Where do you guys get your doctrines of positions on Biblical issues from - planet MARS?

Why do you think God faulted the priests in Malachi that you guys so often quote from?

You can't understand basics of Christianity and you want to engage in an OPEN debate; calling for it in another thread. Please go back to Children Sunday School and learn.

perousd:
lol. but you agree with your pastor? Lolz.

How I wish he'll understand what you're saying; he swallows what his pastor says hook line and sinker but when it comes to the Apostle of Apostles he disagrees with him.

The height of arrogance!

Ken4Christ:
I think you are not honest enough to admit my submission. I made a point and backed it up with Scriptures. Please explain the Scripture to me if you know better. How can Abraham pay tithe from the Spoils he vowed not to collect? Please answer this question. If you can, I will admit I am in error.

Hebrews 7:4 says Abraham tithes from spoils. You say it is not. I pitch my camp with Hebrews.

When a person is not humble enough to accept his faults or shortcomings it is difficult for him to be taught.

It's not about winning arguments. It's about knowing and ACCEPTING God's view on any issue.

MuttleyLaff:
I know but please pull me up.
You don't hit a man when he is down
After down, the only way is up.
Show me the way, please have mercy

I hope he has it in him to show mercy!
That is if he understands what mercy is.

petra1:
To a great extent Everyone have specific calling .

You mean church members ? You have to be specifically clear

We have to be specific . I would have given you a straight “NO. But it shouldn’t be applied generally because cases differ .Affluence to A is different from B”

I asked about Jesus, the Apostles and their followers and you still ask me to be specific? Seriously?

This is what happens when you assume an ulterior motive to a question and you now want to answer what you assume the questioner is getting at.

Petra1, I asked about Jesus and the Apostles so how specific do you want me to be?

The issue is, what would Jesus or the Apostles have done?

This is the 3RD thread that put up MISLEADING TITLE which the OP is hardly able to substantiate.

What's going on?

Are there so many half-baked Christians out there who can't even reason with a kindergarten brain?

petra1:
It will be wrong for us to generalize . Many pastors are “ suffering . I recently met a pastor in a village in delta charging his phone at a Petrol station who said God told him to leave his work as editor at NTA And move to his village to start a work . He has been there for over a year preaching . Village children and women who don’t even give offerings . I had to buy him a power bank and took his Account number to be sending him money . Many times he was tempted to quit but he said he heard clearly . He’s not a failure . It’s God that know what his assignment is

It will be a sin if we Christians join sinners to attack our own body by giving impression that pastors are enjoying people money . If for any reason God raise a man one day to bless the pastor I talked about for his faithfulness and buys him a car builds the church . People will look at the villagers and say “ there goes your money . Let’s not generalize .lets not even judge . It’s a sin because we lack necessary information . If we must judge , let’s judge righteously . Deal with a specific case and get proper information from both sides . Did he use church money to buy that car or build that school ? Etc let’s get the facts then look at it if they are in line or not .

The devil will always attack ministers . No matter how . Even Jesus was called 419

John 7:12 (TLB)
There was a lot of discussion about him among the crowds. Some said, "He's a wonderful man," while others said, "No, he's duping the public."

To generalize means, for example, to apply to ALL. I did not say all pastors.

I believe most, if not all, pastor will readily say they want to PATTERN their ministries after Christ's or at least even the Apostles.

My question therefore is: "How did Jesus's LIFESTYLE or those of the Apostles compare to that of their followers?"

And a follow-up : "Would Jesus or the Apostles have chosen to live in affluence when some in their congregation live from hand to mouth?"

Ken4Christ:
Well, that was Apostle Paul’s analysis of the transaction that took place. I believe in the revelation shared by Apostle Paul but he is a man who also can make mistakes. Read the entire passage in Genesis chapter 14 and you will see that Abraham vowed he won't have anything to do with the spoils.

Even at then, Daddy Freeze used it as an example to prove that Abraham never gave tithe of what belonged to him and neither did any Saints before the Law. But Jacob his grandson vowed to give God a tenth of all that God will bless him with. Where did Jacob learn the culture of tithe if not from his father.

So, are you saying that that is no longer part of Scriptures or that not all scripture is divinely inspired as some can be mistakes of men?

How far will you guys go in trying to make portions of Scripture agree with your conceived position on tithing?

You opened a thread just to discredit some other position. Now I hope you'll be man enough to admit your error.