₦airaland Forum

Interpretation?

StOla:
Again, the highlighted is your own partisan edit to a written constitution.

36 States and FCT is the totality of Nigeria and the intended catchment area for the 25% in 2/3 condition that is written once for that subsection to apply at once to 36 States and FCT.

Not a condition to apply to 36 States, and same condition to apply separately to FCT.

Case closed!

So it is settled - you don't know the meaning of the word "effectively".

Moving on, are you a mind-reader, or did you talk to the drafters??
As human beings we can't read minds but we can read and understand simple English. Here are things we are SURE of: "⅔ of 36 and FCT" does NOT mean "⅔ of 37".
Neither does it mean "⅔ of 36 but FCT can substitute"
Neither does it mean "⅔ of 36 mixed with FCT", which is nonsensical.

The ONLY reasonable thing it can mean is "⅔ of 36; AND (PLUS) FTC" !!!
Bottom line: we all need to work together to change the wording in the constitution for sake of future generations.
This is my last response to you.
Nice chatting with you.
One Love

StOla:
That is why Shagari truly did not meet the requirements then as there can never be 12-2/3 but 13, which Shagari did not meet. Sadly the courts ruled in his favour rather than allow a 2nd ballot.

You made it seem like it was nonsensical to conclude that 2/3 of 37 is 25. Besides that is not even the issue in Tinubu's victory as he has more than enough states for that to even matter.

I have attached the text of the relevant section of the Constitution.

It stated the conditions and stated the sample area from which the condition needs to be met.

That sample area is all of Nigeria (36 States and FCT, without any comma or without restating the condition to refer exclusively to FCT as a separation criteria.

You don't have to confuse people and yourself. Simple, the constitution says:
"at least 25% in ⅔ of 36 states and FCT"

That's all anybody needs to know. And that wording is FAULTY and needs to be changed or added to. It is not about Tinubu or Shagari, it is about avoiding having this same discussion on the future!

StOla:
You are the partisan one here who even restructured the section of the Constitution to support your position.

If what you wrote is how it is written, then Tinubu would need 25% in FCT but could argue it as a constitutional matter that it was wrong since no electoral college exist in Nigeria and that the voters in 1 unit out of 37 are not more important than to the other 36 units.

But it is not even written the way you have presented it.

The way it is written is indicative of all that make up Nigeria which is 36 states and FCT, is the catchment area from which the candidates need to get 2/3 at 25% votes or more.

And that might explain your own self inflicted misinformation in this debate.

Seems I am discussing with someone who doesn't have proper grasp of English language. You don't know what "effectively" means

Here's my statement again. Focus on the word "effectively":-

Consider that there is NO LIMIT to number of words you can use in a constitution!!!
Something as important as a presidential election! You can take your time and expantiate as you wish.

They could have added, "Any state can be substitute for FCT". THEY DIDN'T!!

They could have said, "25 states with FCT being counted as a state" THEY DIDN'T!!

They could have said, "⅔ total number of states, with FCT considered a state, and the result rounded up to the next whole nimber". THEY DIDN'T!!

They could have simply said, "A candidate does not have to get ¼ in FCT to win the presidency", THEY DIDN’T

Instead what they EFFECTIVELY wrote is:

"⅔ of 36 States, AND (PLUS) FCT"!

And someone is here arguing it is perfect!
- and comming up with all sorts of convoluted fractions and rounding ups!

Instead of stating the OBVIOUS INTERPRETATION (the ONE interpretation that avoids all that) - IT MEANS WHAT IT SAYS - ¼ in ⅔ of 36 states; AND ¼ IN FCT!!!!

StOla:
There is no comma before the AND in the written law you are referencing. That is your own addition.

Infact what you presented as law is your own edited version as I have highlighted starting with the comma.

If you know English, you would know there is a difference between AND after a comma versus AND without a preceeding comma.

Also there is no reason at all why they need to clarify for you what you already know that as at 1996 onwards, Nigeria is made up of 36 States and FCT.

None needs to substitute the other when describing the total geographical units that make up Nigeria.

Your own folly is not the folly of others.

Own your own folly.

No matter the straightforward or explicit phrasing of any country's constitution, there would always still be gray areas that need constitutional interpretation by the Supreme Court.

It is the case in every country with a constitution.

Do you know the meaning of the word "effectively"?
I wrote:

Instead they EFFECTIVELY wrote:
"¼ in ⅔ of the 36 states, AND (PLUS) ¼ in FCT"!

Same issue will keep arising until the constitution is re-worded. Just a few words in the constitution will avoid all this discussion but people like you are too blinded by narrow partisan interests to see beyond your nose!

StOla:
So you foolishly thought the divisions of Nigeria is predetermined so that you will arrive at a whole number whenever 2/3 of the totality of Nigeria is required?

What manner of Ignoramus are you?

So what happens when more States are created?

Or you think Nigeria was 36 States and FCT from independence?

I do not need the constitution to know that 2/3 of 37 is not a whole number, so any candidate who has 24 out of 37 is still below the benchmark.

Only 25 out of 37 would put any candidate above the benchmark.

Tinubu and APC already achieved 30 out of 37.

He stands validly elected.

Why the insults on my person? To what end? Supporting something that is OBVIOUSLY faulty. Just accept that the constitution needs to be re-worded!
Which is obvious OR same issue will keep arising as it did in 1979!
Read the below historical precedent and compare it to your rambling submission:

Similar provision was made in the 1979 constitution.
Then we had 19 states and 2/3 of 19 is 12.667 (12 2/3). After the election Sagari had min 25% scored votes only in 12 states and was declared winner. Awolowo took him and FEDECO (Then INEC) to court.

The 13th state was the issue, which was Kano State. Shagari scored 243,423 votes, equivalent to 19.4% of the 1,220,763 total votes cast in Kano State.

Guess what? The Tribunal calculated the 0.667 (2/3) of the votes in Kano, then calculated 25% of it for Sagari, and Sagari votes was enough for that. That was how Sagari became President without a rerun.

StOla:
The conclusion of 2/3 of 37 is 25 to the nearest whole number.

25 units out of 37 whole.

The 25 can be any 25 unit out of the 37.

So 25 States or 24 States and FCT.

Very straightforward except for the mentally handicapped.

Remember, I am not the one who divided Nigeria to be 36 States and FCT.

So you finally overcame shame and embarrassment and actually stated the NONSENSICAL?!

WHERE IN THE CONSTITUTION DID IT TELL YOU TO ROUND ANYTHING??

Give it up already!

StOla:
Nigeria is made up of 36 States and FCT.

Why is your comprehension fighting that reality.

Any reference to the totality of Nigeria is a reference to 36 States and FCT. That is 37 component units.

The rule is to secure 25% or more votes in 2/3 of the totality of Nigeria.

That is 2/3 in 36 States and FCT. That is 37 component units.

But you are a loser, so i do not find it weird that you have to keep hope alive.

He/she is still too ashamed to conclude.

So please sir/ma conclude: what is ⅔ of 37 component units??

Consider that there is NO LIMIT to number of words you can use in a constitution!!!
Something as important as a presidential election! You can take your time and expantiate as you wish.

They could have added, "Any state can be substitute for FCT". THEY DIDN'T!!

They could have said, "⅔ total number of states, with FCT considered a state, and the result rounded up to the next whole nimber". THEY DIDN'T!!

They could have simply said, "A candidate does not have to get ¼ in FCT to win the presidency", THEY DIDN’T

Instead what they wrote is (bearing in mind there is no limit to number of words they coukd use):

"⅔ of 36 States AND FCT"!!!!

And now you want us to accept that "36 States and FCT" is same as saying: "The whole of Nigeria". Did they tell you that's what they meant?? Why didn't they just say or add "The whole of Nigeria"?? What was stopping them??
So you see, sir/madam, you have no case!

It's actually much more than that - that new money stopped inflation

returncole:
I googled this "DffAlert" and couldn't find anything.

So what do you call this below?

Ikea81:
I no understand, the people that drafted this constitution still dey alive? Make we go ask them.naa. lol

The people that drafted that constitution are probably not-too-smart soldiers or such.
Consider that there is NO LIMIT to number of words you can use in a constitution!!!
Something as important as a presidential election!!!
If they simply added something like, "Any state can be substitute for FCT", none of this discussion would be going on!

ObaIgwe1:
lol, in Mathematics you are right. 24.05 is closer to 24 than 25.

But in law, it's different. If the law says minimum is 24.05, you cannot approximate backward. 24 will not be up to the minimum, and since fraction of a state is not acceptable, only 25 will meet the requirement of the law.

limcar:
the Constitution is clear. We don't need mathematical calculation to solve the answer. 25% in Two third means twenty three states plus Abuja or twenty four states excluding Abuja. Simple as ABC

ObaIgwe1:
Supreme Court in their apology agree with Late Justice Kayode Eso, the only dissenting judge of the 1979 Supreme court case against against Sagari; that we can not have fraction of a state, so whatever excess on the whole calculation should be taken as complete state. What that means is that even if the calculation of 2/3 comes to say 24.05, the .05 must be taken as whole, which is 25 because we do not have fraction of a state.

StOla:
To a presidential election, the winning candidate must have,

1. Majority votes among all the contestants.
2. 25% or more votes in 2/3 of 36 States and FCT (Nigeria), which is 25 component units which can be 25 States or 24 States and FCT.

Tinubu already met rule 1 and surpassed rule 2 by securing the 25% or more in 30 States.

favor914:
Don’t mind that politeactivist, playing smart, but not been clever.

You are all arguing the same point but comming up with different numbers!!!
So, have a meeting amongst yourselves and decide which number you will jointly adopt!

Instead of being honest and admitting that the wording in the constitution needs to be changed to avoid this happening again in the future, you are insisting that "⅔ of 36 states and FCT" means something other than what it simply and clearly says.

To any HONEST person "⅔ of 36 states and FCT" is more likely to mean "⅔ of 36 states; and FCT" and NOT "⅔ of 37 states" OR "⅔ of 36 states, but FCT can substitute for a state".

As for the guy arguing common sense, this is not about common sense or what is reasonable. It is about what is ACTUALLY written in the constitution!

lalalista:
you're a psychopath. Sick lonely creature, jobless and frustrated. You can see no one is replying you. Bastard! I don't need a kid like you on the comments section

Wow, where all this venom from? I must have really touched a nerve. Sorry dear, didn't mean to.
Are you trying to conceive or avoid conceiving or is it abortions. Just curious.
Take it in stride, you are not the first nor last. Keep saying your prayers and keep plugging. Everything passes - sooner than you'd expect almost all the time!

StOla:
Nigeria is composed of 36 States and FCT.

To describe Nigeria in terms of its geographical components, it would always be stated as 36 States and FCT.

A company is informing its customers that it is allover Nigeria, would say they have offices in 36 States and FCT.

You want to describe 2/3 of Nigeria is saying 2/3 of 36 States and FCT.

The requirement is to score not less than 25% in 2/3 of Nigeria.

That is, not less than 25% in 2/3 of 36 States and FCT.

See how you talked yourself into a corner and can't conclude!

SO CONCLUDE!!

What does "not less than 25% in 2/3 of 36 States and FCT." mean??!!

Can't you people see that if you have to write a long essay with references to history before applying such a simple statement, that something is wrong?!

"Not less than 25% in 2/3 of 36 States and FCT" - the closest thing it can mean is: "Not less than 25% in 2/3 of 36 States; and not less than 25% in FCT"
Anything else, you'd have to write a looong essay, with references to history!

limcar:
the Constitution is clear. We don't need mathematical calculation to solve the answer. 25% in Two third means twenty three states plus Abuja or twenty four states excluding Abuja. Simple as ABC

ObaIgwe1:
Supreme Court in their apology agree with Late Justice Kayode Eso, the only dissenting judge of the 1979 Supreme court case against against Sagari; that we can not have fraction of a state, so whatever excess on the whole calculation should be taken as complete state. What that means is that even if the calculation of 2/3 comes to say 24.05, the .05 must be taken as whole, which is 25 because we do not have fraction of a state.

StOla:
To a presidential election, the winning candidate must have,

1. Majority votes among all the contestants.
2. 25% or more votes in 2/3 of 36 States and FCT (Nigeria), which is 25 component units which can be 25 States or 24 States and FCT.

Tinubu already met rule 1 and surpassed rule 2 by securing the 25% or more in 30 States.

favor914:
Don’t mind that politeactivist, playing smart, but not been clever.

You are all arguing the same point but comming up with different numbers!!!
So, have a meeting amongst yourselves and decide which number you will jointly adopt!

Instead of being honest and admitting that the wording in the constitution needs to be changed to avoid this happening again in the future, you are insisting that "⅔ of 36 states and FCT" means something other than what it simply and clearly says.

To any HONEST person "⅔ of 36 states and FCT" is more likely to mean "⅔ of 36 states; and FCT" and NOT "⅔ of 37 states" OR "⅔ of 36 states, but FCT can substitute for a state".

As for the guy arguing common sense, this is not about common sense or what is reasonable. It is about what is ACTUALLY written in the constitution!

Softmirror:
25% FCT IS THE SONG DIS ONES GO SING TILL AFTER MAY 29 BEFORE THE LOOK FOR ANOTHER SONG TO BE SINGING AGAIN.

Point is, we should correct the faulty wording in the constitution NOW - or years hence another generation will be dealing with same issue!

Not only that, the drafters could have simply written:

"⅔ of 36 states, but FCT can substitute for a state"
OR
"25 states with FCT being counted as a state"

They didn't!!

Instead they effectively wrote:
"¼ in ⅔ of the 36 states, AND (PLUS) ¼ in FCT"!

We can't read their minds to know what they intended, but we can read and understand simple English, and that's exactly what they WROTE!!!

limcar:
the Constitution is clear. We don't need mathematical calculation to solve the answer. 25% in Two third means twenty three states plus Abuja or twenty four states excluding Abuja. Simple as ABC

I refuse to engage in discussion with people of this level of reasoning. - people who think that ⅔ of 36 is 23. I simply won't do it, and no one can force me.

Lalalista, what's your obsession with your "friends'" pregnancies?
See below

ObaIgwe1:
Let me help this argument with a little bit of history.

Similar provision was made in the 1979 constitution. Then we had 19 states and 2/3 of 19 is 12.667 (12 2/3). After the election Sagari had min 25% scored votes only in 12 states and was declared winner. Awolowo took him and FEDECO (Then INEC) to court.

The 13th state was the issue, which was Kano State. Shagari scored 243,423 votes, equivalent to 19.4% of the 1,220,763 total votes cast in Kano State.

Guess what? The Tribunal calculated the 0.667 (2/3) of the votes in Kano, then calculated 25% of it for Sagari, and Sagari votes was enough for that. That was how Sagari became President without a rerun.

But The Supreme Court was later to direct that this decision should not be cited as precedent and even in later years, apologised for the judgment. Sagari should have scored minimum 25% in 13 states (which is the approx value of 12.667 states) to be declare a winner.

Now Abuja should be treated as a state according to the constitution, which will mean we now have 37 states for the purpose of election. 2/3 of 37 will be 24.667. To be declared a winner you will need to also have at least 25% votes cast in 25 states, which is the approximate value of 24.667. If Tinubu had only 25% in 24 states, there would have been problem similar to 1979. But fortunately for him he has 25% in 29 states.

Thanks for the history, but you are being deceptive.
Even the Supreme Court apologized for the nonsense.
That case is quite different and I suspect you know it.
All are states and non was mentioned specifically

Here's the truth, the bottom line:
The drafters made a MISTAKE in their wording. They should have written:
"⅔ of 36 states, but FCT can substitute for a state". OR "25 states with FCT being counted as a state"
Instead they effectively wrote:
"¼ in ⅔ of the 36 states, AND (PLUS) ¼ in FTC"!

That's the TRUTH. Doesn't mean that's how Supreme Court will rule.

Instead of being dishonest and twisting clear words out of shape, let's work together and correct the wording in the constitution for the sake of future generations!

limcar:
You lack understanding. The Constitution says 25% in two-third of 36 states and the fct, meaning 25% in 24 states with or without the fct

I am done. I just can't. I simply refuse to have discussions with someone who reasons like this

Lalalista deleted her OP, so I'll explain:
Her "friend" had a urine pregnancy test showing positive, and a blood pregnancy test showing negative
----------------------
I replied with this below:

See all you want to know below

There are sooo many "friends" on Nairaland

Dbestbrest:
Illiteracy is a big disease that is very difficult to eradicate in the minds of those that refuse to learn. When the constitution says 36 states and FCT, It literary means since abuja is not a state, the use of "and" had made FCT to be the 37th body that made up Nigeria. If Abuja is a state, the constitution would have just stated 37states instead of 36 states and Abuja. But lack of understanding and the ability to comprehend by the Obidients had made them to stand logic on its head. After all, common sense is not common at all

So, genius, what is ⅔ of 37??
Or your genius thinking didn't reach that level?

Sheggy13:
I knew it would come down to this - insults. The modus operandi of Obidients. You guys can't hold conversations in a civil manner. It has to be your way only. How can you say "at least" there is irrelevant. It's the presence of "at least" that makes it above 24 (25 or more entities) as 2/3 of 37 is a fraction exactly 24.667 and you can't present fractionalised number of states. There's no point having a conversation with you any further. I know you would soon want to teach the judges at the supreme court English by the time they make their rulings on this FCT 25% rubbish,since you're the only smart one.

Do you think the drafters of the constitution are idiots such that a candidate who perhaps wins all 36 states and fail to get 25% in FCT will be denied bring returned as President when his closest competitor couldn't secure up to 25% in 24 states?

You are the one being insultive and personal. I made a generalized statement not focused on you, you've since called me Obidients and all sorts of names instead of focusing on the discussion.

Once again, "at least" here is IRRELEVANT to this discussion. It simply means if you get 24.667 "states" OR MORE you'd win. Which is a nonsensical statement since 0.667 state does not exist, and therefore cannot be what the drafters intended. They also couldn't have meant 25 states or they'd have simply written "25 states or more" which is same thing as "At least 25 states". We are left with only one answer: 24 states and FCT - exactly what they wrote!

Bottom line is, the drafters made a mistake in their wording. They should have written:
"⅔ of 36 states, but FCT can substitute for a state".
Instead they effectively wrote:
"¼ in ⅔ of the 36 states, AND (PLUS) ¼ in FTC"!

Instead of being dishonest and twisting clear words, work to correct the wording in the constitution for the benefit of future generations!

Tadadobe:
Nigerians are sleeping. See the whole street of nairaland very silent. Now I'm awake trying to make this world a better place for y'all. Right now, I'm trying to figure out the cure to cancer and madness, and y'all motherfuvckers are sleeping. Chai, Nigeria and her people dont deserve me

Not everybody is sleeping. People like slawmirre - this is the perfect time for them to be bombing China, and even US!

bayplus:
Even right now. Some Obidients are claiming that Tinubu and APC bribed the British immigratiin to embarass Obi. How low can people go!

Nobody is claiming the above AT ALL, neither was Obi embarrassed. The embarrassment is rather on APC for hiring impersonators in attempt to implicate Obi in one thing or another!