jaephoenix:

For the uber-umpteenth time, your child mol@sting organization is not the only pacifist organization out there.

Apart from JWs how many have come to speak with you on the matter?

jaephoenix:

So inotherwords, you're saying there's no supreme being then?
Lol 😆. These theists are prime dvllards

Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa you missed it!

The only Supreme Being exist among JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES {Isaiah 43:10-12} that's why His word is fulfilled in our midst! Isaiah 2:2-4

jaephoenix:


And I have continually stated that I did not say so about "everything must have a creator"

i clearly said
"no thing in this world created itself . For the issue of the existence of God is confined to this world that we know.

Interesting…
Dliespeaker can you look at the highlighted excerpts from your own post and see if it makes sense. Lol 😆

See Doctor slowpoke, even after seeing the words "this world" which clearly means I won't talk about galaxies and universe and stars, you stil stupidly came to show that you are a fool in youe desperate strugle to find how to find a counter against me?

Fool, there is no valid argument against The Truth. And obviously you shall be a fool till you die!

LordReed:


LoLz. I went to check if that's what it says in their NWT version of the Bible and it clearly says:

52 And the tombs were opened, and many bodies of the holy ones who had fallen asleep* were raised up 53 (and people coming out from among the tombs after his being raised up entered into the holy city), and they became visible to many people.

But that asterisk links to this:

Matthew 27:53
people coming out: Or “they who came out.” The Greek verb indicates a plural masculine subject referring to people, not to the bodies (neuter in Greek) mentioned in verse 52. This evidently refers to passersby, who saw the dead bodies exposed by the earthquake (vs. 51) and who entered the city and reported what they had seen.

LMFAO! I can't even with these guys. Bwahahahahaha!

What Greek verb do they mean? And why is it only seen by them?

MaxInDHouse:


Apart from JWs how many have come to speak with you on the matter?

Matter of what?
By the way, do you have a branch in Afghanistan and Pakistan ?

MaxInDHouse:


Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa you missed it!

The only Supreme Being exist among JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES {Isaiah 43:10-12} that's why His word is fulfilled in our midst! Isaiah 2:2-4

Lol 😆
Still exhibiting your lack of mental prowess.
You said this
Without a supreme being there can't be peace in the society and that is what you and your children need: PEACE!
Considering there is no world peace, that means a Supreme being doesn't exist. Since his existence proves world peace

jaephoenix:

Matter of what?
By the way, do you have a branch in Afghanistan and Pakistan ?

The so called pacifists you talked about how many times have they come to your house to discuss about how to make peace with neighbour?

Of course we have brothers and sisters in those counties but its where we are allowed to build branches that people like you know for instance our branch office in Russia has been confiscated but does that mean Jehovah's Witnesses are no longer in Russia?

jaephoenix:

Lol 😆
Still exhibiting your lack of mental prowess.
You said this
Without a supreme being there can't be peace in the society and that is what you and your children need: PEACE!
Considering there is no world peace, that means a Supreme being doesn't exist. Since his existence proves world peace

You're not intelligent enough!

Did i say world peace or societal peace ?

You should have asked "what society has such peace?" According to God's word Satan is the ruler of this world {1John 5:19} so the world can't know peace but among the worshipers of the true God there must be LOVE, JOY and PEACE! Galatians 5:22-23

jaephoenix:

What Greek verb do they mean? And why is it only seen by them?

Trust them naa, they need to find a way to make sure these verses don't destroy their theology regarding the dead. LoLz.

jaephoenix:

When did you ask me this? Lol 😆
Anyway, with the level of Intelligence I seeing from you folks, your kids would be the worse for it. So yes, atheist kids would be better than your kids. Besides, religiousity has been associated with low IQ

I guess you have not seen JW children before

Some people here deserve a show on Netflix. "Comdey Night Special" 🤣 🤣 🤣

LordReed:


LoLz. I went to check if that's what it says in their NWT version of the Bible and it clearly says:

52 And the tombs were opened, and many bodies of the holy ones who had fallen asleep* were raised up 53 (and people coming out from among the tombs after his being raised up entered into the holy city), and they became visible to many people.

They try to edit horrible parts of their bullshit stories by changing words, which only end up making the passages meaningless. My favorite is when they change slave to servant as if they are the same thing. lmao

KnownUnknown:


They try to edit horrible parts of their bullshit stories by changing words, which only end up making the passages meaningless. My favorite is when they change slave to servant as if they are the same thing. lmao

So much editorialisng this so called almighty god inspired book. LoLz.

LordReed:


So much editorialisng this so called almighty god inspired book. LoLz.

They are about to be sued for copyright infringement by the god.

KnownUnknown:


They are about to be sued for copyright infringement by the god.

Bwahahahahaha!

Aemmyjah:

I guess you have not seen JW children before

He has surely seen them while they're crying in the streets because of molestations by their older ones.

This people have seen that only Jehovah's Witnesses have what it takes to convince any sane person about God but they have trashed the concept of GOD and they're not ready to make a U-turn.

So whatever they can gather against the JWs is like good news to them even though they can't see it happening in their own neighbourhood!

Yes God is really exist, but note God is spirit and must be in the spirit to hear is voice, and the only way to hear is voice is true dying to the flesh in other words serious fasting to mortify the flesh, that is when you can hear God.

Dtruthspeaker:
In all you say you still move and depart from the point of the argument.

This ad nauseum rhetoric will not work with me, my dear. I'm starting to think this has more to do with you being too afraid to deal squarely with the true consequences of your assertions than with my "departing from the point".

I said nothing about first cause and as i told you before

You never said it explicitly, but it was implied in your original claim.

when you say "how are you certain that it is the God you worship and not some other deity" you have inpliedly admitted that it is proven that God exist

Apparently, you are not aware of the different dimensions of logical and/or philosophical discussions, so it's understandable that you'll read that comment of mine and come to such a spurious conclusion. Sometimes, in these kinds of discussions, participants have the liberty to assume a position they don't necessarily agree with in order to properly scrutinize a claim or argument. It's commonly called a hypothetical argument. So to clarify, I haven't accepted your claim definitely. I accepted your claim for the sake of argument. Note the difference between the two aforementioned statements. My primary interest is the examination of your argument that nothing in this world created itself. That was your initial claim, remember?

but are now changing
the post to ask a presumptive question of "WHICH GOD, created this world, which is not the issue, hence you a departure from the argument.

Well, I've mostly explained your objections here in my previous paragraph. Also I'm really interested in hearing your answer to my query. If we should accept - for the sake of argument - that something created everything, what evidence can you present that proves beyond all reasonable doubt, that this "thing" is the Jewish deity known as "YHWH"?

And I have continually stated that I did not say so about "everything must have a creator"

Lol, ok. So what are you really trying to say then?

I clearly said
"no thing in this world created itself.

In the context of proving the existence of God, what is this statement supposed to mean if it's not supposed to suggest a first cause?

For the issue of the existence of God is confined to this world that we know.

You have made this assertion numerous times now and I'm not sure I understand your point here. Before I pose my next query to you, I'll need you to provide an operative definition for the term "WORLD" as you are applying it in this discussion. Does this "WORLD" consist of the earth alone in which humans are one of the inhabitants, or is your "WORLD" synonymous with the known universe, including other planets and the sun etc.?

And it arises out of this world, and we are all using our knowledge and experiences in this world to make our arguments.

Same question applies here before I proceed with my question.

The bible, the first basis of our belief and the major cause of this debate also focuses on this world where we are.

But the bible is a very flawed text burdened with a dishonest history and riddled with too many errors and inconsistencies. I fail to see how it qualifies as evidence for anything at all.

Thus, "space" travel and diving into matters beyond the scope of the argument is a clear departure from the debate.

I think this partly answers my question from above, but I want you to directly address the question yourself before I can make an appropriate response as I do not wish to preempt your next comments.

And the debate is proof of God which I have given and you have still not rebutted, but have rather impliedly admitted.

So you just made a totally vague statement lacking any meaningful context whatsoever, but somehow you believe this proves that God exists? What drugs are you on?

Thus calling for the proof of God's Origin/Beginning or proof of first cause or proof of your presumption of God/gods who created this world are all are changes of Post and departures from the argument.

So far, you haven't made any discernable argument!

The argument is simply proof of God which you have twice impliedly admitted.

I never made any admissions. You're only imagining things.

Aemmyjah:


Cause and effect
A bench on a beach... That bench is an effect of what cause? That someone dropped it there whether or not I see or know who dropped it. Only a fool will ask for who made that person that dropped the bench. The universe has a beginning and is eternal and that is something that science agrees. It either came from nothing or from something eternal or someone eternal

Law and lawgiver
A traffic light on a highway. You probably don't know who designed those laws and signs and symbols but only a fool will look for the one who produced those lawmakers. In the universe, there are natural laws that when broken, could lead to chaos. Who made them?

Order and organization
Order and organization cannot be produced by accident or mindless chance even in the world of mankind. In the natural world, we see the order and organization at the cellular, tissues, organs and cells as well as cycles of water and elements and how planetary bodies are organized, having their own tilt, satellites and orbits. Yet, fools who add to their folly call themselves wise and want others to belive that these things happened by mindless process... Is your foolishness not higher than the moon?

You haven't offered any new information here. This is just you repeating yourself. The flaws of your propositions have already been discussed in a previous post of mine right here on this thread. I have highlighted the relevant sentences in the post for you to chew your cud on again. Of course, you couldn't offer any substantial defense then and you still can't do so now. Read:

Thorrn:
Moving on to the claims of an orderly, designed universe, I've also pointed out it's flaws numerous times already. Since I have enough time to spare, I'll indulge you once more. Aemmyjah is suggesting that the supposed "order" in the universe is proof that his God exists. So basically, he's merely rehashing the Teleological Argument (argument by design). For the sake of viewers who studied Logic in school, I'll attempt to steelman this argument using logical syllogism:

P1> The Universe has order, purpose and regularity.
P2> The presence of the aforementioned values show evidence of design.
P3> Such design implies a designer.
C> Therefore, this designer must be God.

Right from the start, we can already see the problems with P1 and P2. The vacuum of space, as commonly described by astrophysicists is anything but orderly or regular, at least going by the general understanding of those terms. Quasars and black hole collisions don't seem to have any inherent purpose. Baryonic matter which constitutes life, makes up less than 5 percent of all there is, and most of that is stellar clouds of materials. We're left with stars, and then far down the line is the leftovers that allow for planets and things like organisms. A paltry insignificant percentage.

More importantly, the preceding examples presume that we can even recognize design in the first place! The reason we think we can recognize design is because we have witnessed the design of cars, wristwatches, phones and so on. But nobody witnessed the inception of the universe, so assertions about what caused it to be can NOT be made with certainty. There is a difference between the perception of design and intentional design. Aemmyjah's arguments rise to little more than "look at that; it looks designed!". He is either relying on the assumption that something couldn't possibly happen by chance, due to incredibly long odds (which is an argument from incredulity fallacy) or stating there is no known explanation for the order we see other than purposeful design (which is an argument from ignorance fallacy). In light of these facts, P3 is completely invalidated as well.

Furthermore, even if we assumed that P1 through to 3 are indeed all correct, how exactly have you established that your God caused it, and he exists? We still have a non-sequitur; the premises are disconnected from the conclusion. At best, this argument would only serve apologetics for a deist (impersonal) god. Why can't I conclude that your argument proves the existence of Brahma or any other creator deities out there besides YHWH?

Keen observers will notice so far in this discussion that Aemmyjah has nothing tangible to offer besides mindless repetition of soundbites from Christian apologetics. He couldn't utilize his brain to manufacture an original argument even if his life depended on it.

Aemmyjah, low intelligence runs deep in your bloodstream. You breath it in and out like oxygen and carbon dioxide. As if your obvious cognitive incompetence wasn't terrible enough, you still had to suffer religious indoctrination at a very young age. You need to humble yourself and submit to learning. Senseless rants and bickering will not do you any favors. At this rate, you'll probably die stupid .

Aemmyjah:



Go and sit down
You're not supposed to be engaging with humans
Hypocrite!
Do you know that disbelief in a creator renders your existence as meaningless, hopeless, useless and without reliable guidance?

=================================

Thorrn:
The fact that you truly believe that life would be meaningless if God didn't exist just makes me feel pity for you. Believe it or not, life has whatever meaning you want to give it. Do you mean to tell me that the only thing that motivates you to get up in the morning is your God? Nothing else inspires your energy and dedication? Not even your family?

Thorrn:

You mean the results about atheists having meaningful lives? I don't have to. Pew Research already published it half a decade ago. But I understand - you were too busy learning about talking snakes in Sunday School.

Pew Research: Where do atheists find meaning in life? Like a majority of Americans, most atheists mentioned “family” as a source of meaning when Pew Research Center asked an open-ended question about this in a 2017 survey. But atheists were far more likely than Christians to describe hobbies as meaningful or satisfying (26% vs. 10%). Atheists also were more likely than Americans overall to describe finances and money, creative pursuits, travel, and leisure activities as meaningful. Not surprisingly, very few U.S. atheists (4%) said they found life’s meaning in spirituality.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/12/06/10-facts-about-atheists/

Open that link and give it a good read when you're chanced. But I'd advise you to bring along a box of tissues so that you can at least weep in a dignified manner.

You and I both know that this rhetoric has been dismantled over and over again on this thread. It doesn't matter how many angles through which you choose to present this claim, it will never be a reasonable submission.

Try again.

Thorrn:

Well, I've mostly explained your objections here in my previous paragraph. Also I'm really interested in hearing your answer to my query. If we should accept - for the sake of argument - that something created everything, what evidence can you present that proves beyond all reasonable doubt, that this "thing" is the Jewish deity known as "YHWH"?

This would be a departure from post for all I prove is God which is the topic. But to prove God of the bible above all known and unknown deities is an unreasonable demand becausee it is an impossiblility for you ask of me to know every deity out there to answer this question. And that is an impossiblility.

But the highest proof on this is that no other deity predicted the future of this world which we have seen except the bible e.g. scarcity of husbands, growth in evil and hatred, hardness of buying and selling, the division of Israel into 2 states and it's return to its single state including it's return to the lands God gave them..

No other deity has given any prophecy which people have said this happened as prophecied by so so so deity.

But anyway, this is a departure from the post.

Thorrn:

You have made this assertion numerous times now and I'm not sure I understand your point here. Before I pose my next query to you, I'll need you to provide an operative definition for the term "WORLD" as you are applying it in this discussion. Does this "WORLD" consist of the earth alone in which humans are one of the inhabitants, or is your "WORLD" synonymous with the known universe, including other planets and the sun etc.?

The bold! this "WORLD" consist of the earth alone in which humans are one of the inhabitants. That's why I kept saying that we are all arguing using our knowledge and experiences in and from this world to make our arguments.

Thorrn:

But the bible is a very flawed text burdened with a dishonest history and riddled with too many errors and inconsistencies. I fail to see how it qualifies as evidence for anything at all.

According to your wrong opinion and flawed understanding of it which however does not negate the fact that the bible focused on this earth and it's inhabitants whether you undertand it or not, which was the point i made. But this is not the issue.

Thorrn:


=================================





You and I both know that this rhetoric has been dismantled over and over again on this thread. It doesn't matter how many angles through which you choose to present this claim, it will never be a reasonable submission.

Try again.

Richard Dawkins (atheist and renowned scientist- Life has no higher purpose than to perpetuate the survival of DNA...life has no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind pitiless indifference.

If you like deny it
This is something that many people refuse to identify as an atheist
That is your philosophy too
De play

Thorrn:


You haven't offered any new information here. This is just you repeating yourself. The flaws of your propositions have already been discussed in a previous post of mine right here on this thread. I have highlighted the relevant sentences in the post for you to chew your cud on again. Of course, you couldn't offer any substantial defense then and you still can't do so now. Read:



Keen observers will notice so far in this discussion that Aemmyjah has nothing tangible to offer besides mindless repetition of soundbites from Christian apologetics. He couldn't utilize his brain to manufacture an original argument even if his life depended on it.

Aemmyjah, low intelligence runs deep in your bloodstream. You breath it in and out like oxygen and carbon dioxide. As if your obvious cognitive incompetence wasn't terrible enough, you still had to suffer religious indoctrination at a very young age. You need to humble yourself and submit to learning. Senseless rants and bickering will not do you any favors. At this rate, you'll probably die stupid .

Life has no higher purpose than to perpetuate the survival of DNA...life h.as no design, no purpose, evil and no good, nothing but blind pitiless indifference

I have no argument with someone whose life is described above, pitiless,
Without purpose, without design and without good. Go and find meaning for your life, then return to me since you don't know how to refute sound argument
T 4 he man who said those words is leading atheists. With such statement, you people suppose to be living in the wild like animals yet to say we are braishwashed and not intelligent
Nonsense

Aemmyjah:


I guess you have not seen JW children before

I have. They are usually smartly dressed. I give them that, smart and dapper. But they are mentally cretarded

LordReed:


So much editorialisng this so called almighty god inspired book. LoLz.

I would like to see them edit the Balaam and Balaak story. That would take rewriting the whole chapter. The story is plain fuckery at its best. It would take some serious word gymnastics and bravadaccio to make it meaningful

Edolor:
Yes God is really exist, but note God is spirit and must be in the spirit to hear is voice, and the only way to hear is voice is true dying to the flesh in other words serious fasting to mortify the flesh, that is when you can hear God.

Many folks saw Yahweh face to face in the Holy Babble. They didn't go through all that bullshit. They were just doing regular stuff . In fact some ate with him. In the modern age, some pastor even had tea with him. So wtf are you mouthing off?

Thorrn:


You haven't offered any new information here. This is just you repeating yourself. The flaws of your propositions have already been discussed in a previous post of mine right here on this thread. I have highlighted the relevant sentences in the post for you to chew your cud on again. Of course, you couldn't offer any substantial defense then and you still can't do so now. Read:



Keen observers will notice so far in this discussion that Aemmyjah has nothing tangible to offer besides mindless repetition of soundbites from Christian apologetics. He couldn't utilize his brain to manufacture an original argument even if his life depended on it.

Aemmyjah, low intelligence runs deep in your bloodstream. You breath it in and out like oxygen and carbon dioxide. As if your obvious cognitive incompetence wasn't terrible enough, you still had to suffer religious indoctrination at a very young age. You need to humble yourself and submit to learning. Senseless rants and bickering will not do you any favors. At this rate, you'll probably die stupid .

From this light, looks like Aemmyjah is substantially dumber than DTruthSpeaker. And that's saying something. From my interactions with both, seems he seems afraid to dabble into areas of knowledge not covered by JW indoctrination. Noticed it with other JW cretards like Cornelboy and their grandmaster Maxindhouse. Cornelboy simply shut his brain when I showed him glaring evolution evidence

jaephoenix:

I would like to see them edit the Balaam and Balaak story. That would take rewriting the whole chapter. The story is plain fuckery at its best. It would take some serious word gymnastics and bravadaccio to make it meaningful

Oh gosh you need to see them try, it hurts my head everytime I try to follow the gymnastics.

Thorrn:


Aemmyjah, low intelligence runs deep in your bloodstream. You breath it in and out like oxygen and carbon dioxide. As if your obvious cognitive incompetence wasn't terrible enough, you still had to suffer religious indoctrination at a very young age. You need to humble yourself and submit to learning. Senseless rants and bickering will not do you any favors. At this rate, you'll probably die stupid .

Animaljah see your mummy for here 😂

Dtruthspeaker:


This would be a departure from post for all I prove is God which is the topic. But to prove God of the bible above all known and unknown deities is an unreasonable demand becausee it is an impossiblility for you ask of me to know every deity out there to answer this question. And that is an impossiblility.

But the highest proof on this is that no other deity predicted the future of this world which we have seen except the bible e.g. scarcity of husbands, growth in evil and hatred, hardness of buying and selling, the division of Israel into 2 states and it's return to its single state including it's return to the lands God gave them..

No other deity has given any prophecy which people have said this happened as prophecied by so so so deity.

But anyway, this is a departure from the post.



The bold! this "WORLD" consist of the earth alone in which humans are one of the inhabitants. That's why I kept saying that we are all arguing using our knowledge and experiences in and from this world to make our arguments.



According to your wrong opinion and flawed understanding of it which however does not negate the fact that the bible focused on this earth and it's inhabitants whether you undertand it or not, which was the point i made. But this is not the issue.

1. You don't need to know all the deities out there before you prove the existence or power of your favorite sky daddy. Just do it!
2. As an ex-christian, I would talk extensively about christianity. I wont pretend to know much about Islam and other religions.
You see all the claims you made about the divinity of the Bible is just plain bs. Lets break it down.
A. Scarcity of husbands. Who said men are scarce? The issue is scarcity of prosperous men. Women constantly reject male approaches, holding out for richer guys. So how does this translates to scarcer males?
B. Growth in evil and hatred. I'm not entirely sure what this phrase means but there has been wars much worse than we see now, wars that have killed millions in a short time. The world is relatively peaceful than before.
C. Hardness of buying and selling. Obviously you have never heard about earlier world financial calamities like the Great Depression etc. Those days are long gone. There is some inflation now which is as a result of the covid pandemic but its gradually easing off
D. The division of Israel into 2 states. Its obvious your knowledge of history is close to nil. Israel only existed as a nation in 1948 and has never divided since then. This also trashes your second statement of return to Single State(since it was never divided). The land Israel is on is actually Palestinian. The present Israelis were mainly emigrants from Europe, known as the Ashkenazis, Seraph and Misraui

Aemmyjah:


Richard Dawkins (atheist and renowned scientist- Life has no higher purpose than to perpetuate the survival of DNA...life has no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind pitiless indifference.

If you like deny it
This is something that many people refuse to identify as an atheist
That is your philosophy too
De play

What is evil?
What is good?
What is the purpose of your life?
Answer the above

jaephoenix:

From this light, looks like Aemmyjah is substantially dumber than DTruthSpeaker. And that's saying something. From my interactions with both, seems he seems afraid to dabble into areas of knowledge not covered by JW indoctrination. Noticed it with other JW cretards like Cornelboy and their grandmaster Maxindhouse. Cornelboy simply shut his brain when I showed him glaring evolution evidence

Lol 😂 okay you evolve from the great ape I understand 🤣🤣
You guys are the dumb o you are also the r..etards