prepared4Heaven:
On point!

and what exactly is on point in that post ?

OLAADEGBU:



Jesus shares equal authority with the Father because He is God. Can you see yourselves being replicated with the Scribes and Pharisees who refused to see because of their rigidity to comply to their tradition and religion?

Gentleman, I didnt ask for your personal philosophy which you vomit up there , Simple ... 1 Corinthians 11:3 says God is the head of Christ . Does that not clearly spell it out that Christ is under the authority of God ?

going by your logic, can we say Man and woman are equal in authority too since they are contrasted in that same scripture , If No! that means Just as Man is the head of a woman and a woman is under the authority of a Man, Christ is also under the authority of God.

1 Cor 11:3 reads " But I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; "
OLAADEGBU , does this mean man is equal with Christ ? or under the authority of Christ ? am sure you will agree with me that the bold is correct

it continues

" in turn, the head of a woman is the man;

OLAADEGBU, does this mean man is equal in authority with a woman? or that A woman is under the authority of A Man ? am sure you will agree with me that the bold is correct !

it continues

" in turn, the head of the Christ is God "

exact same wording with the other 2 examples above , Does this not also clearly spell it out that just as a man is under the authority of Christ, As a woman is under the authority of a man, THAT Christ is also under the authority of God ?

pressplay411:


You keep beating around the bush.
Where did Jesus profess himself as God?
Not like God but that he is God.

See the response to your question in the suggested link below:

http://reasonsforjesus.com/jesus-never-claimed-to-be-god-a-historical-response/

OLAADEGBU:


See the response to your question in the suggested link below:

http://reasonsforjesus.com/jesus-never-claimed-to-be-god-a-historical-response/

Interesting and stimulating.
It identifies the ambiguity and misinterpretation I've been stressing, whether intentionally or innocently the fact that the teachings of the bible professing Jesus as God can never be credited to Jesus himself but by his disciples and early believers.
It also makes an intriguing observation, no record of any writers among Jesus contemporaries makes any reference to his God status, but rather as a prophet who professed himself as son of God, which in itself was already a blasphemy among the Jews.
Another observation is the fact that you should imagine someone, a Jew you know from birth suddenly professing himself as the God you all worship?
So, No Jesus is not God. At most he's the son of God as he professed.

CAPTIVATOR:


From God, Just like Moses and others got their power and authority from God.., SO How can you be equal in authority with someone WHO GAVE YOU the Power you had ? OLAADEGBU, stop deceiving yourself.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English

". .. then the Son shall be subject to him who subjected all things to him "


GOD'S WORD® Translation
" ... the Son will put himself under God's authority " 1 Corinthians 15:28

Only Jesus could do the actions that God could do. Other prophets could only say "thus says the Lord" but Jesus taught with the same authority of God by saying "Verily, verily I say unto you." Jesus is Lord.

CAPTIVATOR:


Gentleman, I didnt ask for your personal philosophy which you vomit up there , Simple ... 1 Corinthians 11:3 says God is the head of Christ . Does that not clearly spell it out that Christ is under the authority of God ?

You are mixing issues here. The Scriptures you are referring to here is stressing the orderliness of God, the church and the family. He is not the God of confusion but of orderliness. There is orderliness in the Godhead, the church and the family.

CAPTIVATOR:


going by your logic, can we say Man and woman are equal in authority too since they are contrasted in that same scripture , If No! that means Just as Man is the head of a woman and a woman is under the authority of a Man, Christ is also under the authority of God.

Let me use another analogy you seem to be confusing order and essence together. You have one body. Is your head superior to the rest of the body? Can your head do without the body?

CAPTIVATOR:


1 Cor 11:3 reads " But I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; "
OLAADEGBU , does this mean man is equal with Christ ? or under the authority of Christ ? am sure you will agree with me that the bold is correct

Christ is God and man is human. When we are talking about the body of Christ we should know that Christ is the head and the church is the body in that order.

CAPTIVATOR:

it continues

" in turn, the head of a woman is the man;

OLAADEGBU, does this mean man is equal in authority with a woman? or that A woman is under the authority of A Man ? am sure you will agree with me that the bold is correct !

The fact that man is the head of the woman in marriage does not imply that man is superior to the woman they are one human family. Likewise, in the Godhead, The Father is the head of Christ (the Son) but they are One God.

CAPTIVATOR:

it continues

" in turn, the head of the Christ is God "

exact same wording with the other 2 examples above , Does this not also clearly spell it out that just as a man is under the authority of Christ, As a woman is under the authority of a man, THAT Christ is also under the authority of God ?

For a marriage as instituted by God to work as one unit it has to adhere to the injunction commanded by God for the man to be the head of the woman, which does not imply that the man is superior to the woman as many folks erroneously believe. It is in responsibilities. God also works in unity that is called the Tri-unity. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. The Son carries out the work that the Father initiates and the Holy Spirit completes it. It does not mean the One is superior to another it only shows the oneness and authority of God.

pressplay411:


Interesting and stimulating.
It identifies the ambiguity and misinterpretation I've been stressing, whether intentionally or innocently the fact that the teachings of the bible professing Jesus as God can never be credited to Jesus himself but by his disciples and early believers.
It also makes an intriguing observation, no record of any writers among Jesus contemporaries makes any reference to his God status, but rather as a prophet who professed himself as son of God, which in itself was already a blasphemy among the Jews.
Another observation is the fact that you should imagine someone, a Jew you know from birth suddenly professing himself as the God you all worship?
So, No Jesus is not God. At most he's the son of God as he professed.

Do you believe that Jesus Christ is Lord?

OLAADEGBU:


Do you believe that Jesus Christ is Lord?

Of cos, Lord being Master and not a misnomer for God. In fact eventhough I have my scruples, I can stil believe he's the son of God.

pressplay411:


The problem is the interpretation of the bible.
Same verse, different readers would tell you different meanings.
The Bible can be both straightforward and ambiguous, depends on who's interpreting it.
But I just believe it's too grievous an offense professing Jesus as God, especially cos that's not only erroneous and a blasphemy but a blatant and callous mutiny to his legacy.

Gbam! Gbam!!! Gbam!!! The last sentence is too good. It nailed it.

OLAADEGBU:


The holy scriptures are only ambiguous to those whose eyes had been darkened. Let the Sun of righteousness shine in your heart so that you can see with the eyes of your understanding. Here are other verses that show who the Lord Jesus Christ is:

"If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated me and my Father" (John 15:24).

"There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him" (John 3:1-2).

We can see from the verses above that Jesus shares the same attributes with God. No man can do the same work that God does except Christ. Even Nicodemus acknowledged that truth. Do you?

And when has a SON having the same attributes with his FATHER makes the father a culprit in a criminal case the Son commits with the judgement based solely on attributes of father and Son.

Ken4Christ:
JW members who have been indoctrinated are difficult to convert. They have been trained to ignore the truth and follow their deceptive teachings. The worst of their teachings is the denial of the existence of hell which is clearly revealed in the Bible. I wish they could see the doom that awaits them. Please, give your life to Jesus. He is the only way to God. Otherwise, you will face his wrath.

"For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?". (Revelation 6:17).

Oga definition of HELL dey for Bible. Please define it. Until you do that, don't label the JWs teaching false. Man up to do so.

OLAADEGBU:


Nicodemus acknowledged not only that Jesus comes from God but that no man or prophet could do those works which Jesus did. Jesus did the works only God could do which proves that Jesus is one with God, they are inseparable in character, in attributes and in Power.

Yet Jesus, your personal Lord and Saviour had to be given power/authority to do things. Matthew 28:18

OLAADEGBU:


Jesus shares equal authority with the Father because He is God. Can you see yourselves being replicated with the Scribes and Pharisees who refused to see because of their rigidity to comply to their tradition and religion?

What is the meaning of head? It seems you did not read 1 Corinthians 11:3

achorladey:

Yet Jesus, your personal Lord and Saviour had to be given power/authority to do things. Matthew 28:18

@bold
By that, Jesus is obviously not your Lord and Saviour,
but we already know that about the jw sect.

However Jesus Christ is Lord and Saviour of all Christians.

2Pe_1:11  For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
2Pe_2:20  For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe_3:2  That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
2Pe_3:18  But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

And of course those who don't call Jesus their Lord and Saviour,
don't have entry into His everlasting Kingdom. 2Pe_1:11 above.

Act 4:12  Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

achorladey:

Yet Jesus, your personal Lord and Saviour had to be given power/authority to do things. Matthew 28:18

Question: "What does it mean to accept Jesus as your personal Savior?"

Answer: Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior? To properly understand this question, you must first understand the terms “Jesus Christ,” “personal,” and “Savior.”

Who is Jesus Christ? Many people will acknowledge Jesus Christ as a good man, a great teacher, or even a prophet of God. These things are definitely true of Jesus, but they do not fully define who He truly is. The Bible tells us that Jesus is God in the flesh, God in human form (see John 1:1, 14). God came to earth to teach us, heal us, correct us, forgive us—and die for us! Jesus Christ is God, the Creator, the sovereign Lord. Have you accepted this Jesus?

What is a Savior, and why do we need a Savior? The Bible tells us that we have all sinned; we have all committed evil acts (Romans 3:10-18). As a result of our sin, we deserve God's anger and judgment. The only just punishment for sins committed against an infinite and eternal God is an infinite punishment (Romans 6:23; Revelation 20:11-15). That is why we need a Savior!

Jesus Christ came to earth and died in our place. Jesus' death was an infinite payment for our sins (2 Corinthians 5:21). Jesus died to pay the penalty for our sins (Romans 5:8. Jesus paid the price so that we would not have to. Jesus' resurrection from the dead proved that His death was sufficient to pay the penalty for our sins. That is why Jesus is the one and only Savior (John 14:6; Acts 4:12)! Are you trusting in Jesus as your Savior?

Is Jesus your “personal” Savior? Many people view Christianity as attending church, performing rituals, and/or not committing certain sins. That is not Christianity. True Christianity is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Accepting Jesus as your personal Savior means placing your own personal faith and trust in Him. No one is saved by the faith of others. No one is forgiven by doing certain deeds. The only way to be saved is to personally accept Jesus as your Savior, trusting in His death as the payment for your sins and His resurrection as your guarantee of eternal life (John 3:16). Is Jesus personally your Savior?

https://www.gotquestions.org/personal-Savior.html

CAPTIVATOR:


Must your hate make you spread false messages, JW belive in Hell [ Heb: Sheol, Greek: Hades] ... and according to the scriptures everyone is going there [Eccl 9:5,10] , even Job prayed to go there .

Your ignorance amazes me. Go and study your Bible with open mind and you will know the truth for yourself. JW say hell is grave. So it is not the same belief.

pressplay411:


Of cos, Lord being Master and not a misnomer for God. In fact eventhough I have my scruples, I can stil believe he's the son of God.

Is Jesus Christ your Lord and Master?

achorladey:


And when has a SON having the same attributes with his FATHER makes the father a culprit in a criminal case the Son commits with the judgement based solely on attributes of father and Son.

A son and his father have the same human attributes. They are human beings. God the Father and God the Son also have the same attributes - God.

achorladey:


Yet Jesus, your personal Lord and Saviour had to be given power/authority to do things. Matthew 28:18

Are you saying that He is not your Lord and Saviour? How many Lords and Saviours do we have?

achorladey:


What is the meaning of head? It seems you did not read 1 Corinthians 11:3

The fact that your boss at work is your superior doesn't mean that he/she is a superior human being. We all have equal value and worth before God.

OLAADEGBU:


A son and his father have the same human attributes. They are human beings. God the Father and God the Son also have the same attributes - God.

I know you won't be able to crack the analogy. You simply fail to comprehend it. Reasoning minds can help you on that. Papa Farm and im pikin Farm no fit dey together make the farm no get boundary. That is an African proverb I hope you catch the drift. Get the interpretation in yoruba,perhaps you will understand better.

OLAADEGBU:


The fact that your boss at work is your superior doesn't mean that he/she is a superior human being. We all have equal value and worth before God.

We all have equal value before God and God did not make you(Olaadeegbu) as our personal Lord and Saviour. I no fit laugh oooo. You can't even redeem me not to talk of the the world.

OLAADEGBU:


Are you saying that He is not your Lord and Saviour? How many Lords and Saviours do we have?

Sorry, I no get answers for your question. Look elsewhere. If you can create a thread of this type you should have answers to that kind of question. Out of curiosity I will like to Isolate the word ''personal''. If a ''kidnapper(A)'' was paid a certain sum of money to release an ''individual(B)'' kidnapped. From your previous post on this thread the (money) automatically becomes the individual's(B) personal Lord and Saviour. Please what will you call the person who paid the Ransom. A. Personals Lords and Saviours, B. Personal Lord and Saviour. You decide!!! If you have a better name for the person please provide.

OLAADEGBU:


A son and his father have the same human attributes. They are human beings. God the Father and God the Son also have the same attributes - God.

What about God the Holy Spirit. You no talk am?

johnw74:



Question: "What does it mean to accept Jesus as your personal Savior?"

Answer: Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior? To properly understand this question, you must first understand the terms “Jesus Christ,” “personal,” and “Savior.”

Who is Jesus Christ? Many people will acknowledge Jesus Christ as a good man, a great teacher, or even a prophet of God. These things are definitely true of Jesus, but they do not fully define who He truly is. The Bible tells us that Jesus is God in the flesh, God in human form (see John 1:1, 14). God came to earth to teach us, heal us, correct us, forgive us—and die for us! Jesus Christ is God, the Creator, the sovereign Lord. Have you accepted this Jesus?

What is a Savior, and why do we need a Savior? The Bible tells us that we have all sinned; we have all committed evil acts (Romans 3:10-18). As a result of our sin, we deserve God's anger and judgment. The only just punishment for sins committed against an infinite and eternal God is an infinite punishment (Romans 6:23; Revelation 20:11-15). That is why we need a Savior!

Jesus Christ came to earth and died in our place. Jesus' death was an infinite payment for our sins (2 Corinthians 5:21). Jesus died to pay the penalty for our sins (Romans 5:8. Jesus paid the price so that we would not have to. Jesus' resurrection from the dead proved that His death was sufficient to pay the penalty for our sins. That is why Jesus is the one and only Savior (John 14:6; Acts 4:12)! Are you trusting in Jesus as your Savior?

Is Jesus your “personal” Savior? Many people view Christianity as attending church, performing rituals, and/or not committing certain sins. That is not Christianity. True Christianity is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Accepting Jesus as your personal Savior means placing your own personal faith and trust in Him. No one is saved by the faith of others. No one is forgiven by doing certain deeds. The only way to be saved is to personally accept Jesus as your Savior, trusting in His death as the payment for your sins and His resurrection as your guarantee of eternal life (John 3:16). Is Jesus personally your Savior?

https://www.gotquestions.org/personal-Savior.html

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Who provided the Lamb. What will you call him, PERSONALS LORD AND SAVIOURS. #PERSONAL#.

achorladey:


I know you won't be able to crack the analogy. You simply fail to comprehend it. Reasoning minds can help you on that. Papa Farm and im pikin Farm no fit dey together make the farm no get boundary. That is an African proverb I hope you catch the drift. Get the interpretation in yoruba,perhaps you will understand better.

Your analogy misses the point 'am driving at. The Jews sought to kill Jesus because they also found it difficult to see that Jesus was equal with God:

"But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. [18] Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God" (John 5:17-18).

Here Jesus stated that both He and His Father had been working continuously when He had been accused of breaking the Sabbath by healing the lame man at the pool of Bethesda on the same day. Our Lord Jesus made them aware that they had been doing this all through history. Since God finished the work of creation on the 6th day, Jesus had continued the work of conservation and redemption and upholding all things by the word of His Power. (See Hebrews 1:3; Colossian 1:16; 2 Peter 3:7).

achorladey:


Sorry, I no get answers for your question. Look elsewhere. If you can create a thread of this type you should have answers to that kind of question. Out of curiosity I will like to Isolate the word ''personal''. If a ''kidnapper(A)'' was paid a certain sum of money to release an ''individual(B)'' kidnapped. From your previous post on this thread the (money) automatically becomes the individual's(B) personal Lord and Saviour. Please what will you call the person who paid the Ransom. A. Personals Lords and Saviours, B. Personal Lord and Saviour. You decide!!! If you have a better name for the person please provide.

Are you saying that you cannot answer whether Jesus is your Lord and Saviour or not? Is that too much of a question to ask?

achorladey:


What about God the Holy Spirit. You no talk am?

He is the third Person in the Godhead. He is God. Your parents and yourself are human beings. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit is God. Hence this prayer in the name of God, in one name yet three names:

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:19).

We can see here that the 3 Persons mentioned here are each equally and fully God.

achorladey:

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Who provided the Lamb. What will you call him, PERSONALS LORD AND SAVIOURS. #PERSONAL#.

You such a confused one and play with words to avoid and deny the truth.

Yes of course Jesus is my personal Lord and Saviour,
He certinally is the Lord and Saviour of this person - me,
and he is the Lord and saviour of all Christians.

That leaves you and all false jw out.


2Pe_1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
2Pe_2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe_3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
2Pe_3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Obviously Jesus Christ is not your Lord and Saviour,
and you don't believe the Bible verses that say Jesus is Lord and saviour.

bad for you, what can be your end?

Rev_20:15  And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

OLAADEGBU:


Your analogy misses the point 'am driving at. The Jews sought to kill Jesus because they also found it difficult to see that Jesus was equal with God:

"But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. [18] Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God" (John 5:17-18).

Here Jesus stated that both He and His Father had been working continuously when He had been accused of breaking the Sabbath by healing the lame man at the pool of Bethesda on the same day. Our Lord Jesus made them aware that they had been doing this all through history. Since God finished the work of creation on the 6th day, Jesus had continued the work of conservation and redemption and upholding all things by the word of His Power. (See Hebrews 1:3; Colossian 1:16; 2 Peter 3:7).

Oga go park, that John 5:17-18. Just they make me laugh. Another simple proverb you no fit understand that. Na your kaya be that ooooo. Am done with the conversation Jesus said He and ''HIS FATHER''. JESUS SAID HE AND HIS FATHER................ and yet you have one personal LORD and SAVIOUR. Smh........

OLAADEGBU:


He is the third Person in the Godhead. He is God. Your parents and yourself are human beings. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit is God. Hence this prayer in the name of God, in one name yet three names:

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:19).

I hope all of them are your personals Lords and Saviours. Please don't ask me how many personal Lord and Saviour I have? You people can confuse the world with these your reasoning mentality.
We can see here that the 3 Persons mentioned here are each equally and fully God.

.
Even the Godhead have a head. I no fit laugh oooo, and yet you have a personal Lord and Saviour. He is the third person in the Godhead. But the third person is not your personal Lord and Saviour abi? Continue, please don't ask me how many personal Lord and Saviour I get oooo. You have a reply on that already.

OLAADEGBU:


He is the third Person in the Godhead. He is God. Your parents and yourself are human beings. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit is God. Hence this prayer in the name of God, in one name yet three names:

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:19).

We can see here that the 3 Persons mentioned here are each equally and fully God.

And yet you have one personals Lords and Saviours. 3 persons eh eh eh eh. You people can reason for the world. Una dey try ooooooo.